Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000, Ilya Konstantinov wrote about "Re: Sending SMS messages by
E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone":
Again, 20 messages a day. Exploit OrangeWalla, much more fun (until
they catch you). Or figure out how to use 'telnet 192.118.10.40 443'.
Maybe I'll try adding this "OrangeWalla" to my script someday... But so far,
for me, (and again, for personal use), this 20 message limit has been a
non-issue. For the off-chance that I'll ever need more than 20 messages
a day (my average is about 5 a day), I just registered 3 of my emails to
this service - 60 messages a day is more than I'll ever need.
By the way, what's the deal with that http://www.mtnsms.com/? Am I the
only one that got the impression that it's run by a group of 10-year-olds?
Just look at their writing style ("we r improving adding new
functionalities 2 our site all the time.") and weird forms (in their
registration forms, the "income per anuum" has the choices $5000 (the
minimum wages in Israel and most computer-using countries are over $9000) to
"$3 and above" (they probably haven't heard about people making over
3 times as much in the computer industry, especially in the U.S.).
--
Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Dec 28 2000, 2 Tevet 5761
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The road to good intentions is paved
http://nadav.harel.org.il |with hell.
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Re: spoofing DNS..
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Stanislav Malyshev a.k.a Frodo wrote: Indeed, but this one wasn't for the 2nd reason. --Ariel AB I can't even believe we're really discussing this lame subject AB here. These lamo hacker wannabe kids questions don't belong on AB this list. You can discuss attack methods for two reasons - or you want to attack someone, or you want toprotect yourself. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]\/There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev/\Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425 /\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/whois:!SM8333 -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP(6.5.8) public key http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 10:08:38AM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote:
By the way, what's the deal with that http://www.mtnsms.com/? Am I the
only one that got the impression that it's run by a group of 10-year-olds?
Just look at their writing style ("we r improving adding new
functionalities 2 our site all the time.") and weird forms (in their
registration forms, the "income per anuum" has the choices $5000 (the
minimum wages in Israel and most computer-using countries are over $9000) to
"$3 and above" (they probably haven't heard about people making over
3 times as much in the computer industry, especially in the U.S.).
That's their style, and they're sticking to it.
From the fact that they provide ICQ Inc. their SMS-ing capabilities
(both sending and receiving replies by the ICQ client in ICQ2000),
I assume they do know what they're doing.
--
Best regards,
Ilya Konstantinov
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Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMScellphone
Hey, I more than agreeing with Nadav, Face the fact that in life you sometimes have to pay for stuff. GNU idiology was that you don't need to pay for programs or source. But the arguement of the people who opppose it , is exaclly people who abuse the service giving by the source. You use thier servers to send the SMS , you sent it on thier network, and all they ask you is to register before. I think that more than fair, and I think that if enough people would do it the other portals way they would probebly close thier site. And for a fair reason. Phreakers finally getting to israel.. Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote: | On Thu, Dec 28, 2000, Alon Altman wrote about "Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + |Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone": | .. | P.S. A script to exploit Orange written by Nadav Har'el and improved by me | is available at my site - http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~alon/cellphone/ | .. | | Objection! Speculative ;) | | My script wasn't to "exploit" Orange: like *all* cellphone providers in | Israel (and probably most providers around the world), Orange provide a | way to send SMS messages to their customers from the Internet. This is | interface between the Internet and the Real World is very important, and as | I said in a previous posting, I didn't get a Cellcom phone until I was | promised that they will soon have one (and indeed they added their site | about amonth later). The fact that this gateway is free is nice, but not | the most important thing (i.e., if it had cost 10 agorot per message, it | would add 15 shekels to my monthly bill - I wouldn't go bankrupt), but because | on the Internet you don't have aneasy way of charging 10 agorot. Instead, | they charge the users for the privilige of receiving SMS messages (cellcom | no longer does, but I paid 10 shekles a month for that privilige for about | a year). | | Anyway, using my script for personal use (sending stuff to your own phone | number, sending a reasonable amount of messages to friends, etc. - all assuming | that you register to their online service and agree to its terms) is surely | "fair use". The "fairness" of automatically registering 500 fake userson | their site and letting 10,000 people share them is a little more questionable, | because you deprive them of the _accountability_ they wanted (if somebody, | say, spams SMSs, they want to have a lead on who did it, and block him; | Actually, they may have blocked you for this exact reason!). But as you know, | my script requires you to register on your own, and to provide it with the | username/password registered on Orange/Cellcom's sites. | | | | -- | Nadav Har'El | Thursday, Dec 28 2000, 2 Tevet 5761 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- | Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Always keep your words soft and sweet, | http://nadav.harel.org.il |just in case you have to eat them. | | = | To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with | the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command | echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone": Hey, I more than agreeing with Nadav, Face the fact that in life you sometimes have to pay for stuff. ... Though I agree, I have to add one point: I have no problem paying for stuff: the problems starts when a company, wanting to have a rigid charging system and to maximize its earnings, starts to limit my rights and give me much less options. All the arguments about software licences, music rights, and such, are like that: I don't care about being charged to buy a DVD film, but I do care that to maximize their earnings they (rather arbitrarily) decided I shouldn't watch movies I bought in the U.S., or that I can view movies under the Windows OS, but not Linux. Another example, from the Real World: movie theaters in Israel try to prevent you from entering food into the theater unless you bought it there. Any arguments about making a mess is pure crap (don't the food they sell make a mess?); the truth is simple: probably 50% (or more!) of the profit they make come from the popcorn. So what's the problem? The problem is that because of their greediness, and because of marketing tricks (imagine movie tickets costing 40 shekels, and the food 5 shekels) they are limiting my rights, and that sucks big-time. I once went to the movies with someone who wanted to bring their own popcorn, of a special diet kind. There was a BIG fight there (and that is an understatement). Even somebody who thinks businesses can decide their own business models got to agree that something really sucks in the movie theater business model. -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Dec 28 2000, 2 Tevet 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Birthdays are good for you - the more http://nadav.harel.org.il |you have the longer you live. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMScellphone
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GNU idiology was that you don't need to pay for programs or source. No, that's not the FSF ideaology (GNU is a technological project of the FSF, and has no ideaology). You use thier servers to send the SMS , you sent it on thier network, and all they ask you is to register before. Our problem is that they have an ad-hoc acceptable use policy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Nonstop ADSL
hey,
first of all in pap-secrets and chap-secrets change 'guest@ONonstop to
'username@INonstop'. in the password where you have "Bezeq" now you need to
put your own password ("password").
so the file should look like :
# clientserver secret IP addresses
"username@INonstop" "10.0.0.138 RELAY_PPP1" "password"
and when you start a call change whatever need to be changed so it will look
like : 'pptp 10.0.0.138 debug user username@INonstop remotename "10.0.0.138
RELAY_PPP1" defaultroute netmask 255.0.0.0 mtu 1452 noauth'
thats it.
On Tuesday 26 December 2000 21:53, you wrote:
Has anyone using ADSL in Linux tried to connect as a user (not as
guest@ONonstop) ?
They offered me two months free (now that the Bezeq experiment is over),
but of course they had no idea how to connect with Linux. I thought it
would be easy - just add the appopriate line with the user name and
password they gave me to the pap-secrets file and connect with the new name
instead of guest - but it didn't work. Does anyone have any ideas?
TIA
//-
Shlomo Solomon
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://come.to/shlomo.solomon
Date: 26-Dec-2000 Time: 21:45:27
Message sent by XFMail on a LINUX Mandrake 7.2 machine
//-
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RE: spoofing DNS..
lets put some things on the clear here please : spoofing - 2 kind of spoofing , 1. blind spoofing - you do not see the packets that come back to your spoofed address. 2. non blind spoofing - you do see the contents of the packets that come back to your server.( man in the middle attack ). Blind spoofing is almost impossible to achive with current implementations of TCP, ( guessing the syn with random syn is very hard !). UDP is easier but you need to know the contents of the returned packet without seeing it ! ( with nfs you can guess these packets and fake an NFS server like this ..). non blind spoofing is very easy one you are in the middle. to achive the position in the middle you need to 1. have an insider in the ISP . 2. hack internet routing tables. 3. work for an ISP and work your way from there ... -Original Message- From: Tizmo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: spoofing DNS.. lets say i want to connect to an irc server with a spoofed ip, can i do it ? or i want to surf the web not with my real ip.. if i and if i cant tell me how can i send pings with a spoffed ip .. and what is hping2 ? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'Tizmo'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 6:35 PM Subject: RE: spoofing DNS.. depends what you want to do with it... don't forget that sending packets from a spoofed ip, will result in no replies... if you want to do a spoof icmp or udp attacks you can use hping2 for instance... question still stands, what are you trying to accomplish? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tizmo Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 6:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: spoofing DNS.. i mean spoffing my ip - Original Message - From: "Eddie Harari" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'Tizmo'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: RE: spoofing DNS.. what exactly do you mean by spoofing DNS , reply to requests that came to your dns server with fault data ??? or spoof your IP ? -Original Message- From: Tizmo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: spoofing DNS.. hey list, i heard about spoffing dns in linux .. like, changing your ip address to what ever you like it to be. i just wanted to know if it's true and if it is i really would like to know how it's can be done. thanks. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMScellphone
Strike, don't send SMS move cellphone companies e-mail them in protests originize demestration do hunger strikes . but if you use thier service it's thier right to decide how it would be giving. at worse you can originize a patition to cancel thier licence. and give it when/if we have a new goverment;) Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On 28 Dec 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote: | On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | GNU idiology was that you don't need to pay for programs or source. | | No, that's not the FSF ideaology (GNU is a technological project of the | FSF, and has no ideaology). | | You use thier servers to send the SMS , you sent it on thier network, | and all they ask you is to register before. | | Our problem is that they have an ad-hoc acceptable use policy. | = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
Ilya Konstantinov wrote: Again, 20 messages a day. Exploit OrangeWalla, much more fun (until they catch you). Or figure out how to use 'telnet 192.118.10.40 443'. [gby@specialk gby]$ telnet 192.118.10.40 443 Trying 192.118.10.40... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: No route to host What am I missing? ;-) -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701 "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, while interrupts are disabled. " -- Murphey's law of kernel programing. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 05:28:38PM +0200, Ely Levy wrote: at worse you can originize a patition to cancel thier licence. and give it when/if we have a new goverment;) You mean, BEFORE we have a new government :) Listening to citizens right after elections is not very productive... - Adi Stav = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sending SMS messages by E-mail + Sending E-mail from an SMS cellphone
Ely Levy wrote: Face the fact that in life you sometimes have to pay for stuff. GNU idiology was that you don't need to pay for programs or source. But the arguement of the people who opppose it , is exaclly people who abuse the service giving by the source. That was never the GNU (or actually FSF) ideology and reading this makes me wonder if have ever seriously tried to read the FSF Manifesto. You really should pay the FSF website a visit - you'll be suprised: they are selling their software for money. What the FSF really said, in a nutshell, is that when you do SELL the software, you need to provide the buyer or user with the full rights she should get. That's very different from what you're saying. You use thier servers to send the SMS , you sent it on thier network, and all they ask you is to register before. I think that more than fair, and I think that if enough people would do it the other portals way they would probebly close thier site. And for a fair reason. That all sounds very reasnoable until you consider the facts carefully: Orangle says they are limiting their service for 20 SMS a day per user to combat "abuse". But what is this "abuse"? There are two answers: 1. Abuse to a single user, when someone sends them messages they don't want (a la SPAM). 2. Abuse to the system, when someone sends a lot of messages that costs too much or hurt the system. BUT, the stupid registration sysem does not solve any of these two problems: as Nadav's script demonstrates so beautifully, it is a simple matter to code around this silly limitation. And if Nadav was really evil, he could have simply disguise his script activities by using a big ISP proxy and no one would be able to block him (and the fact he didn't means he is a really Good Guy(tm) ;-) So this idiotic limit is some poor idiots attempt at security, but all it does is bother the legal users. The really simple solution is for the Orange to enable each user to *choose* a mailbox to which every mail that is sent gets sent to the user. This makes the problem the same one hat every user already has with his regular email (and most people I know get along pretty ok with the same problem with email). As for problem number 2 - there is no solution, but at least were not hiding our head in the sand pretending there is. Gilad. Phreakers finally getting to israel.. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701 "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, while interrupts are disabled. " -- Murphey's law of kernel programing. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
AS The same copyright system that disallows you to copy ripped MP3s AS disallows companies to make proprietary products out of GPLed AS software. Our copyright system is just fine. With our GPLed software the matter is pretty complicated. Generally, GPLed software is referred to as a "free software". But, in fact, it's not free at all, in the common meaning of the word "freedom". You cannot use it in any project whose views on software licensing is not the same as RMS's. And "use" here includes interoperability, by RMS views, i.e. linking with, etc. See RMSs commentaries on readline library. Some commercial companies explicitly prohibit their workers even to touch GPLed software or enter it into the campuses. Not because they hate free software so much - but because current copyright system can make all their code "derived work" just because some of the developers took a look into GPLed code. That's not exactly how I understand "freedom". Recently, I start to think that if people would know and think a bit more on RMSs interpretation of GPL (which is pretty much of "you cannot touch it unless you are with us in GPL") this license probably won't get so popular. GPL became yet another modern myth. Also, this copyright business got really out of proportion. I cannot just take some "free" software and use it, I need to check license and all legalese and get almost a degree in law to understand what's written there. And I saw a number of times that people had to reimvent the wheel and reimplement existing "free" code just because it was GPLed. I'm not talking here about commercial software, I'm talking here about open source project that happen to disagree with RMS on how to license their own program products. Is it really useful for anyone? I doubt it. AS I get the impression that some people don't want to pay for music they AS listen to, so they start bashing the copyright law which makes that AS illegal. I'm all for Napster and I'm myself a heavy user of it. I'm Don't you feel hypocritical writing it? Liking both Napster and RIAA looks contradictory to me. A clear case of doublethink, so common among us. AS using it to download music, and then buy it if I like it and throw it AS away if I don't. That's still illegal, but it has nothing to do with AS the copyright law -- it has a lot to do with the fact that RIAA hasn't It pretty much does. Copyright law allows copyright holder to control distribution. Napster music distribution is not authorized by copyright holder - i.e., by the current copyright law it is illegal. AS yet properly embraced the Internet as an advertising medium. So leave AS the copyright law alone. You can bash RIAA if you have to. ;-) RIAA is within it's right when it uses current law. I agree that it might be immoral and/or unwise to use the outdated law to protect their outdated business model, but they are inside the "just fine" law and using it and only it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:07:47PM +0200, Stanislav Malyshev a.k.a Frodo wrote: With our GPLed software the matter is pretty complicated. Generally, GPLed software is referred to as a "free software". But, in fact, it's not free at all, in the common meaning of the word "freedom". You cannot use it in any project whose views on software licensing is not the same as RMS's. And "use" here includes interoperability, by RMS views, i.e. linking with, etc. See RMSs commentaries on readline library. That's a common misconception. It should have been obvious, but somehow never is, that no amount of licensing trickery can make one program be considered a derivative work of an unrelated program. And the GPL doesn't attempt to, either. Likewise, no program can "contaminate" other programs and change their license, whether or not you link them together. What the GPL is saying that you cannot distribute someone's GPLed code as a part of a larger program unless you give users at least the same rights they would get were the program GPLed. So you can take GPLed Linux drivers and use them in FreeBSD, because the amended BSD license gives users more rights than the GPL. But you cannot use them in AIX. I think that is reasonable to many authors, who would not want their products to be used by proprietary products. If you think otherwise, use a different license for your own code. If you want to use others' GPLed code in more restricted programs, go ahead and ask the authors. I fail to see why this makes you so furious. Also, nowhere does the GPL limit "interoperability". Only use code as part of another program. Whether or not you consider an executable and a dynamic library accompanying it two parts of the same program or not is a different issue. GPLv3 intends to clarify this and other points. Some commercial companies explicitly prohibit their workers even to touch GPLed software or enter it into the campuses. Not because they hate free software so much - but because current copyright system can make all their code "derived work" just because some of the developers took a look into GPLed code. I've heared similar stories, and even worse ones, told about proprietary products. It is true that the legal system is confused by new challenges to the old "intellectual property" laws, and that several bad judgements where lawyers' ridiculous claims won cases caused companies to become worryingly paranoid. All this has literally NOTHING to do with the licensing of code. The only reason why companies are more worried about GPLed programs than about proprietary programs is that with GPLed code there is a risk of some employees actually reading it. That's not exactly how I understand "freedom". Recently, I start to think that if people would know and think a bit more on RMSs interpretation of GPL (which is pretty much of "you cannot touch it unless you are with us in GPL") this license probably won't get so popular. GPL became yet another modern myth. Not true. See above about using GPLed code with non-GPLed code. People who don't want to restrict the use of their code in proprietary programs or with somewhat more restrictedly license code should not use the GPL, and usually don't. For example, most of Gnome is under the LGPL (beats me why KDE chose the GPL while opposing it so badly). But I think there are many people who want to contribute to free software and not necessarily to proprietary software, and that exactly is the reason for the GPL. I can't see what your problem is here, except for the linguistic definition of "free". Also, this copyright business got really out of proportion. I cannot just take some "free" software and use it, I need to check license and all legalese and get almost a degree in law to understand what's written there. And I saw a number of times that people had to reimvent the wheel and reimplement existing "free" code just because it was GPLed. I'm not talking here about commercial software, I'm talking here about open source project that happen to disagree with RMS on how to license their own program products. Is it really useful for anyone? I doubt it. No, you don't have to. If you want to put your code under the LGPL, or the public domain, or the amended BSD license, or whatever, you are free to do so and are free to combine your program with any GPLed code you can lay your hands on. (I don't know what projects you are referring to that had to reinvent the wheel, but I gather they were either misinformed about the GPL's restrictions, or specifically wanted their project to be forked into proprietary products, like the BSDs do.) - Adi Stav = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
imwheel
Hey there! Since I installed "imwheel", when I do to a program "Open With" (I'm using GNOME), I don't see any programs there. I have "Browser" But I don't like it, I prefer to have that tree thing... Do you Know maby why is this happaning? Do you Know maby how can I fix it? It's really annoying me!!! David P.S More info: Pentium III, RedHat 6.2, Enlightment (or whatever it is written), kernel 2.2.18 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, "Stanislav Malyshev" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RIAA is within it's right when it uses current law. I agree that it might be immoral When some company does something that is within the law but immoral, I tend to lose respect for that company's requests. Whatever happened to good old civil disobedience? -- Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a signature anti-virus. Please stop the spread of signature viruses! = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
AS That's a common misconception. It should have been obvious, but AS somehow never is, that no amount of licensing trickery can make one AS program be considered a derivative work of an unrelated program. And See, this is an official position of RMS. I have quotes from him personally saying this. So you can tell it that way or this way but we both know that GPL is what RMS wants it to be, and if you try to argue, RMS will just force you into his position - he has enough supporters and public weight to do this. AS you link them together. What the GPL is saying that you cannot AS distribute someone's GPLed code as a part of a larger program unless AS you give users at least the same rights they would get were the Not only. You cannot also distribute "derived work", where "derived work" includes code made to be interoperable with GPL code. Yes, I know this sounds insane and goes beyond the scope of the copyright, but this is an official position from RMS. AS Also, nowhere does the GPL limit "interoperability". Only use code as I also thought so. But RMS says it does. Here is RMS quote about product that is designed to work with GPL readline library (it has no line of readline code, except including headers), and distributed in open-source with non-GPL license: ==quote== Richard Stallman wrote: That you don't distribute binaries does not change the fact that your source code is designed to include Readline in the program. You cannot do that, now that your license is incompatible with the GPL. ==end quote== It is that simple. AS part of another program. Whether or not you consider an executable and AS a dynamic library accompanying it two parts of the same program or not AS is a different issue. GPLv3 intends to clarify this and other points. I hope so, but still - GPL is what RMS says it is. And he disagrees with you. AS caused companies to become worryingly paranoid. All this has literally AS NOTHING to do with the licensing of code. The only reason why Well, I think it does. When some licensing scheme is advertized as "free", and you see that people avoid code by this scheme like plague - something's fishy here. AS use the GPL, and usually don't. For example, most of Gnome is under AS the LGPL (beats me why KDE chose the GPL while opposing it so RMS is actively against using LGPL for libraries. BTW: /usr/doc/gnome-libs-.../COPYING on my system has a perfect copy of GPL2, not LGPL. Am I missing something? Or you meant GTK, which _is_ LGPL? AS exactly is the reason for the GPL. I can't see what your problem is AS here, except for the linguistic definition of "free". Yeah, exactly this - it's not "free". AS (I don't know what projects you are referring to that had to reinvent AS the wheel, but I gather they were either misinformed about the GPL's All BSD's had to rewrite readline library to get rid of GPL. That's only one example. AS restrictions, or specifically wanted their project to be forked into AS proprietary products, like the BSDs do.) Here you lost me. I know only one product of current BSDs to be commercialized - BSDI. And no spawns of Net*, Open*, etc. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ipchains
At 11:07 PM 12/28/00 +0200, you wrote: AS The same copyright system that disallows you to copy ripped MP3s AS disallows companies to make proprietary products out of GPLed AS software. Our copyright system is just fine. With our GPLed software the matter is pretty complicated. Generally, GPLed software is referred to as a "free software". But, in fact, it's not free at all, in the common meaning of the word "freedom". Also, this copyright business got really out of proportion. Copyright law allows copyright holder to control distribution. The GPL license was never meant to be an "alternative" to standard copyright. It was meant to be a "vaccine" to standard copyright. Its purpose is to prevent the propagation of current copyright practices by choking off innovative software from those who acquire through copyright what is substantially the work of others. At first, people used to release their software into the "Public Domain" for use by others as they saw fit. However, certain individuals (Bill Gates and his port of Basic to the PC comes to mind) made (sometimes minor) modifications to public domain code and copyrited it, thus legally hijacking other people's work. The GPL license was invented to prevent this type of thing. In addition, it prevents people from giving out "free parachutes" and charging exorbitant prices for the rip-cords (i.e., getting you hooked on some software and then charging for updates). GPL has some side-effects, like all medicines. One is the complete loss of control over the GPL'd software. Another is the loss of any way to get "fair" compensation for software development. While unfortunate, these side-effects must be considered relative to the "copyrite disease" whose spread it is trying to control. GNU/LINUX software is proof that that the "GPL vaccine" is an effective means of fight the copyrite law in its present form. Ofcourse things would be better if there were no side-effects, but the legalese associated with current copyright methodologies makes a less-stringent license subject to abuse, in my opinion. /\ |To Err Is Human | | To Blame It On Someone Else Is | |EVEN MORE HUMAN! | \/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
