[OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Actually it is not about proposed laws. It is about an initiative to create such proposals. But the subject of my message was long enough: http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?itemNo=206232 (Free registration, is required. Unless you disable javascript, that is) One note: people there seem to be quite clueless regarding the distribution of encryption technologies: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption technologies to terrorists will increase the number of casualties in crimes that can't be prevented. Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? And what about technologies that are already available to the public (e.g: the american legislation regarding open-source (?) encryption technologies)? -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption ... Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? Years ago, American legislators were worried about criminals (see for example the Clipper Chip fiasco) and used that as an excuse [1] to harras and limit the freedoms of law-abiding citizens. Now they can brand their anti-freedom laws as patriotic, because they are against terrorists. And what about technologies that are already available to the public (e.g: the american legislation regarding open-source (?) encryption technologies)? Note that there's a difference between allowing export or importing some encryption technology, and allowing actually using it. If you somehow manage to get yourself a gun, does that mean you're allowed to use it? Of course not! Similarly the fact that some encryption software is easily obtainable (as open source, Internet Explorer, encryption hardwer, or whatever) does not mean that it can be legally used in Israel. Last time I checked, Israel has some sort of law called chok hatsofen, that limits not only the export of encryption software (like the American ITAR or EAR), but also the actual use of encryption. If I remember correctly it forbids *any* sort of encryption, unless otherwise exempted in the law, with exemptions given to very-low-grade encryption and to specific software (e.g., I think Internet Explorer and Netscape were listed). This chok hatsofen actually affects (or at least affected, I don't know if it has changed since) Israeli citizens, unfortunately. A few years ago, a system administrator I know disabled one of the encryption algorithms in SSH on his system (a system used by hundreds of users) because he found it was technically illegal in Israel. [1] Off-topic footnote: The United States constitution has gone to great lengths to protect citizens from being harrassed by the government's law-enforcement agencies. From their experience with British soldiers, the founding fathers knew that absolute power corrupts absolutely, i.e., given absolute power over the citizens these agencies will start applying it arbitrarily for less-than-kosher purposes. These citizens' rights were written in the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments to the US constitution. The first amendment gave the citizens the rights of free speech and free assembly. The second amendment allowed citizens to carry guns (this amendment is still very controversial). The third amendment prevented the military from taking over your house. The fourth amendment prevented the police from searching your property without probably cause and a warrent. The rest of the bill of rights deals with the criminal prosecution process and punishment. Therefore in the US, it has been almost a religion that the police (or FBI, DEA, ATF, or whatever) should not have absolute power to track citizens, even given the dangers of crime. But the conviction in these truths have dangerously deteriorated in the last decades, until now they found the perfect ruse to destroy the constitution: terrorism. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 9 2002, 3 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Learn from mistakes of others; you won't http://nadav.harel.org.il |live long enough to make them all yourself = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One note: people there seem to be quite clueless regarding the distribution of encryption technologies: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption technologies to terrorists will increase the number of casualties in crimes that can't be prevented. Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? Cheap or not is not the point. The point is that it is mostly pointless. Encryption technologies *are* available, and widely used. The government cannot prevent terrorists or criminals from getting and using them. The only thing that can be done about it is outlaw them. Obviously, it will hurt the privacy of ordinary law-abiding citizens like you and me. It will not hurt terrorists and criminals, because they are on the path of breaking more important laws anyway. The argument that once government carnivores detect encrypted communications between Alice and Bob (who do not use email anonymizers) the security services will be able to arrest, prosecute, and jail Alice and Bob, thus preventing a terrorist act the two could have been plotting, seems to me theoretically valid but rather weak in practice. If the only thing that Alice and Bob wanted was keeping their affair secret from Alice's husband, then we have a situation where two people are put into jail for that (if Alice and Bob are not proven to be terrorists, but encryption is a crime, then they will have to be convicted for trying to protect their privacy). Similarly, linux-il subscriber Carol won't be able to telecommute any longer, because her employer would be unwilling to use an unencrypted channel for fear of leakage of valuable information, and wouldn't be willing to use an encrypted channel for fear of running afoul of the law. I am afraid this line of reasoning is difficult to explain to legislators, or indeed to any audience sufficiently remote from this list's core population. That is why what you call cheap use of the terror threat works. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: Note that there's a difference between allowing export or importing some encryption technology, and allowing actually using it. If you somehow manage to get yourself a gun, does that mean you're allowed to use it? Of course not! Similarly the fact that some encryption software is easily obtainable (as open source, Internet Explorer, encryption hardwer, or whatever) does not mean that it can be legally used in Israel. Yes, but they try to scare us here from small group of not highly-organized terrorists. In this context if the technology is availble it can be used, whether it is legal or not. This is one point where the terrorism reasoning is not useful. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
One note: people there seem to be quite clueless regarding the distribution of encryption technologies: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption technologies to terrorists will increase the number of casualties in crimes that can't be prevented. Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? you only quoted half a paragraph.the first half sets a different meaning and tone: we thought that all supervision on encryption should be cancelled, since it's obvious that a terrorist who want to deal with encryption won't ask for a license, where as legitimate companies encounter bureaucratic difficulties. all in all, i think most of what these guys want is pretty much ok: 1. limited responsibility of ISPs and sites to what people post on websites (needless to say, this will help me sleep better). 2. no supervision over encryption technologies. 3. clearing the subject of a state back door by law (which pretty much means no more of this rubbish, if it does exist) Dvir Volk Editor in Chief Nana by NetVision _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Tel: 03-5652585 | Fax:03-6241952 | http://www.netvision.net.il http://www.nana.co.il NetVision LTD. Omega Center, Matam Haifa 31905 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
A) It is Tzav Hatzofen (it is a Tzav which Minsiter of Diffence (Sar Habitachun) is authorized to change. B) It was changed several yearsr ago, and you can use encryption as much as you like (I think up to 128-bit secret key). Exporting is also easier with less restrictions. C) No one ever was prosecuted becuase he/she encrypted material (AFAIK). D) This system admin. can now restart the encryption in SSH, all cipher included in OpenSSH and SSH are ok but Tzav Hatzofen (AFAIK). Disclaimer: I'm a cryptographer, not a lawyer. On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption ... Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? Years ago, American legislators were worried about criminals (see for example the Clipper Chip fiasco) and used that as an excuse [1] to harras and limit the freedoms of law-abiding citizens. Now they can brand their anti-freedom laws as patriotic, because they are against terrorists. And what about technologies that are already available to the public (e.g: the american legislation regarding open-source (?) encryption technologies)? Note that there's a difference between allowing export or importing some encryption technology, and allowing actually using it. If you somehow manage to get yourself a gun, does that mean you're allowed to use it? Of course not! Similarly the fact that some encryption software is easily obtainable (as open source, Internet Explorer, encryption hardwer, or whatever) does not mean that it can be legally used in Israel. Last time I checked, Israel has some sort of law called chok hatsofen, that limits not only the export of encryption software (like the American ITAR or EAR), but also the actual use of encryption. If I remember correctly it forbids *any* sort of encryption, unless otherwise exempted in the law, with exemptions given to very-low-grade encryption and to specific software (e.g., I think Internet Explorer and Netscape were listed). This chok hatsofen actually affects (or at least affected, I don't know if it has changed since) Israeli citizens, unfortunately. A few years ago, a system administrator I know disabled one of the encryption algorithms in SSH on his system (a system used by hundreds of users) because he found it was technically illegal in Israel. [1] Off-topic footnote: The United States constitution has gone to great lengths to protect citizens from being harrassed by the government's law-enforcement agencies. From their experience with British soldiers, the founding fathers knew that absolute power corrupts absolutely, i.e., given absolute power over the citizens these agencies will start applying it arbitrarily for less-than-kosher purposes. These citizens' rights were written in the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments to the US constitution. The first amendment gave the citizens the rights of free speech and free assembly. The second amendment allowed citizens to carry guns (this amendment is still very controversial). The third amendment prevented the military from taking over your house. The fourth amendment prevented the police from searching your property without probably cause and a warrent. The rest of the bill of rights deals with the criminal prosecution process and punishment. Therefore in the US, it has been almost a religion that the police (or FBI, DEA, ATF, or whatever) should not have absolute power to track citizens, even given the dangers of crime. But the conviction in these truths have dangerously deteriorated in the last decades, until now they found the perfect ruse to destroy the constitution: terrorism. -- Orr Dunkelman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computers make it easy to do a lot of things, but most of the things they make it easier to do, don't need to be done.--Andy Rooney Spammers: http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~orrd/spam.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: Yes, but they try to scare us here from small group of not highly-organized terrorists. In this context if the technology is availble it can be used, whether it is legal or not. This is one point where the terrorism reasoning is not useful. This is a good point, that for some reasons many legislators tend to miss. In the US, supporters of the second amendment, like the NRA (National Rifle Association) and ESR (Eric S. Raymond ;) see http://tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/) have the saying If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!. Similarly with encryption: if encryption were outlawed, law-abiding citizens would not use it, but criminals (or terrorists) still could, if they only have the minimal amount of sophistication needed to getting hold of an encryption software that doesn't come prepackaged with your Windows. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 9 2002, 3 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Windows detected you moved your mouse. http://nadav.harel.org.il |Reboot for this change to take effect. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Dvir Volk wrote: One note: people there seem to be quite clueless regarding the distribution of encryption technologies: The legitlators accept the position of the Security Forces according to which limiting the use of encryption and limiting the distribution of sophisticated security systems will help the defense organizations to intercept messages containing information that can lead to to the circumvention of terrorist acts. On the other hand, giving encryption technologies to terrorists will increase the number of casualties in crimes that can't be prevented. Anybody else senses here a cheap use of the terror (in greek: fear) threat? you only quoted half a paragraph.the first half sets a different meaning and tone: we thought that all supervision on encryption should be cancelled, since it's obvious that a terrorist who want to deal with encryption won't ask for a license, where as legitimate companies encounter bureaucratic difficulties. Read it again. This was the beginning of the paragraph. This is what they initially thought. But they have accepted the opinion of the security forces (this term sounds horrible). -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On 9 Sep 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am afraid this line of reasoning is difficult to explain to legislators, or indeed to any audience sufficiently remote from this list's core population. That is why what you call cheap use of the terror threat works. Money talks. e-business. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the US, supporters of the second amendment, like the NRA (National Rifle Association) and ESR (Eric S. Raymond ;) see http://tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/) have the saying If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!. I didn't weant to raise the gun issue, though the parallel crossed my mind, but I agree absolutely. I used to live in a country where firearms were tightly controlled, which presented no obstacle to criminals (breaking another law? shrug), and as a result I myself witnessed a few Dodge-city-style shootouts in the streets. In this country, while I have no scientific statistics at hand, it is fairly clear that availability of guns (though tightly controlled) is a factor of safety. How many terror attacks have been cut early because there were people with guns (soldiers, civilians, miluimnikim, etc) present at the scene? I can only regret that it is very difficult nowadays for an Israeli to get a gun permit. Certainly the Palestinians have no problem whatsoever, the laws notwithstanding. Despite the relative availability of firearms random shootouts seem to be virtually nonexistent. Cometo think of it, if a criminal knows that the next person on the sidewalk is likely to pack a gun he'll have an extra reason not to draw his own. Of all the countries in the Western world Switzerland, where everybody is obliged to own automatic or semiautomatic weapons (don't grill me on the details of their legislation, but it is a fact - they are all in army reserves), seems to be one of the most peaceful. In most states of the US on the other hand, handguns are very tightly regulated (this may be surprising to some of you, but it's a fact, in most states you may own a gun, but not carry it around - it is supposed to be for protection of your home only), which does not help at all, as we all know from media reports. It is, of course, the same (or similar) point that I made in my earlier posting regarding encryption. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Memory checkers
Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. What other memory checkers can be used ? They have to have following features: 1. Small overhead 2. Support multithreading applications 3. Support C++ - unmangling function names. 4. Be more or less stable - not alpha/beta versions. 5. Have to know how to check one thing (for example memory leaks) but do it well. There are plenty of open source utilities: memory patrol, electric fence, checker - just to name a few. I don't have time to check every one of them. What you can propose ? Thanks, Michael. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/index.html Orr Dunkelman wrote: A) It is Tzav Hatzofen (it is a Tzav which Minsiter of Diffence (Sar Habitachun) is authorized to change. B) It was changed several yearsr ago, and you can use encryption as much as you like (I think up to 128-bit secret key). Exporting is also easier with less restrictions. It was changed, but it does not say what you said it says. Basically, you effectively can do what you want today, because there is a policy of giving permission to whoever asks for it. This, however, is not part of the order, but part of the policy of the current order implementors. C) No one ever was prosecuted becuase he/she encrypted material (AFAIK). That's what I know as well. D) This system admin. can now restart the encryption in SSH, all cipher included in OpenSSH and SSH are ok but Tzav Hatzofen (AFAIK). Wrong. That SEEMS to be the case for free means (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzav.htm#x0111), but the list (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzofend.htm) doesn't seem to include SSH. I will reserve what I said in that I have not read the entire list (they have a seperate PDF for each month in which a new tool was authorized, so you have to go over all of them to make sure a certain product is not listed). Disclaimer: I'm a cryptographer, not a lawyer. So am I, but I give references. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Succot Ra'anana InstaParty?
Since I volunteered to do some things related to this, I need to know if it is going to be held at all, and if yes - what day and exact location. Does anyone have authoritative information about this? Thanks, --- Omer WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 01:27:28PM +0300, Michael Sternberg wrote: Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. What other memory checkers can be used ? valgrind. Best thing since sliced bread. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda syscalltrack hacker-at-large msg21640/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
ZIP drive 100/250 incompatibility.
Hi, I have Iomega ZIP drive 100Mb on one computer and ZIP 250Mb on another computer. According to Iomega newer 250 drive should be completely compatible with old 100Mb disketes. The problem is that when I create partition table using ZIP100 drive it is not recognized by ZIP250 and vice versa. Do someone experienced similar problem. The computer with ZIP100 runs RH7.3 and with ZIP250 runs RH7.2 regards, Boris. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Wrong. That SEEMS to be the case for free means (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzav.htm#x0111), but the list (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzofend.htm) doesn't seem to include SSH. I will reserve what I said in that I have not read the entire list (they have a seperate PDF for each month in which a new tool was authorized, so you have to go over all of them to make sure a certain product is not listed). Comments: 1. The products listed is the products that do not have oversight on them for ANY use, including development, sell and others. 2. You may USE any product you want, even if it's not on the list if you only using it, not development or selling, etc. Conclusions: You may use SSH and the like, as long as you do not engage in export, development, trading, etc of cryptographic technology. NOTE: I am not a lawer, I HATE lawers :-) Oleg. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 13:27, Michael Sternberg wrote: Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. Interesting. In a previous job we tried to maek Insure++ to work with multithreaded applciations for several months(!) and although we had no problem running out applciation with it we didn't get from it almost any meaningfull output - it didn't find anything. Including problem we discovered with other means (staring at the source code) and we knew were there. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com We don't need kernel hackers or geniuses, we need good developers who will do what they're told. Famous last words, the collection. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
Valgrind may be problematic regarding threads. http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/docs/manual.html#limits On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 01:27:28PM +0300, Michael Sternberg wrote: Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. What other memory checkers can be used ? valgrind. Best thing since sliced bread. -- Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon one penguin, two penguin, three penguin... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Oleg wrote about Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: 2. You may USE any product you want, even if it's not on the list if you only using it, not development or selling, etc. Where did you read that?? According to the turtle (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzav.htm), You need a license except for uses where a license is exempt; License is exempt for buying, using, selling, etc., of a free means, where here free has nothing to do with free-software, but rather one of the means of encryptions listed on a special list of free means. If some software or algorithm (?) is not on that free meeans list you cannot legally use it, if I understand what I read correctly. NOTE: I am not a lawer, I HATE lawers :-) Watch out, Jerry Seinfeld got into a real mess when he said that he hates dentists :) -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 9 2002, 3 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Never be afraid to tell the world who http://nadav.harel.org.il |you are. -- Anonymous = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6059 On Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:07:59 +0300 (IDT) Orna Agmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Valgrind may be problematic regarding threads. http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/docs/manual.html#limits On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 01:27:28PM +0300, Michael Sternberg wrote: Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. What other memory checkers can be used ? valgrind. Best thing since sliced bread. -- Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon one penguin, two penguin, three penguin... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Shachar Shemesh wrote: (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzofend.htm) doesn't seem to Of all the products that I recognize on this list (i.e., most of them), not even one includes reasonably secure encryption. The only exceptions I could spot are the encryption stuff built into Windows and Solaris (e.g., SSL and password hashing), assuming strong encryption is now standard in these products (is it?). The rule thus seems to be that you can get a permit for your cryptographic application as long as it's easy to break. Makes perfect sense, of course. Don't count on PGP or SSH showing up anytime soon. Regards, Eran Tromer = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
Where did you read that?? According to the turtle (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzav.htm), You need a license except for uses where a license is exempt; License is exempt for buying, using, selling, etc., of a free means, where here free has nothing to do with free-software, but rather one of the means of encryptions listed on a special list of free means. If some software or algorithm (?) is not on that free meeans list you cannot legally use it, if I understand what I read correctly. Here is the relevant text: לא ידרש רשיון לעיסוק באמצעי הצפנה : רכישה, שימוש או החזקה של אמצעי הצפנה, אם המכירה או ההעברה של אמצעי הצפנה, לאותו אדם, נעשו לפי רשיון. Which means that if you bought F-Secure SSH in Israel then you can use SSH as long as you like. Which also means that if you download OpenSSH from the Internet and there is no legal representative of OpenSSH makers who has License from Israeli goverment then you CANNOT use it. Which brings me to the next question: Is there theoreticly can be a legal representative for Open Source program that has no legal body behind it ? Oleg. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002, Oleg wrote about Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption: Here is the relevant text: ... Which means that if you bought F-Secure SSH in Israel then you can use SSH as long as you like. What this basically means is that if a specific software (in your example F-Secure SSH) got a license for its seller, then you can use it. Big deal... That's even worse than what we said :) The situation is actually better because the tsav also allows for declaring free means, software that anyone can sell and use without the seller needing another license. But don't count on your favorite small free-software project on being licensed as free means or the site carrying it to get an Israeli license... This is exactly the problem with this law. I thought I had seen some more general text in the law (like any encryption algorithm with a key of less than ... bits is allowed) but I can't find it now, so perhaps I was wrong, and using software not in this list (or not licensed by a specific seller) is illegal. -- Nadav Har'El|Monday, Sep 9 2002, 3 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Never be afraid to tell the world who http://nadav.harel.org.il |you are. -- Anonymous = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ZIP drive 100/250 incompatibility.
On Monday 09 September 2002 14:57, Boris Zingerman wrote: Hi, I have Iomega ZIP drive 100Mb on one computer and ZIP 250Mb on another computer. According to Iomega newer 250 drive should be completely compatible with old 100Mb disketes. The problem is that when I create partition table using ZIP100 drive it is not recognized by ZIP250 and vice versa. Do someone experienced similar problem. The computer with ZIP100 runs RH7.3 and with ZIP250 runs RH7.2 Boris, They ZIP 250 is read-only compatible with the ZIP 100. Thats from what I remember. I had 4 Zip drives, all had click-of-death, I'm no more a fan of Zip drive. Long live CD-R ;) Hetz To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] proposed israeli laws regarding internet and encryption
On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 16:13, Eran Tromer wrote: Shachar Shemesh wrote: (http://www.mod.gov.il/modh1/encryption/tzofend.htm) doesn't seem to Of all the products that I recognize on this list (i.e., most of them), not even one includes reasonably secure encryption. The only exceptions I could spot are the encryption stuff built into Windows and Solaris (e.g., SSL and password hashing), assuming strong encryption is now standard in these products (is it?). The rule thus seems to be that you can get a permit for your cryptographic application as long as it's easy to break. Makes perfect sense, of course. Don't count on PGP or SSH showing up anytime soon. For the record, I approached the relevant people at the Ministry of defence regarding use of PGP for protecting business email and was told by the pwers that be that for regulat commercial *use* they don't require you to ask for a specific license. Yes, I know that it's different from the exact law. That's what they said. This was about a year ago. Gilad. Regards, Eran Tromer = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com We don't need kernel hackers or geniuses, we need good developers who will do what they're told. Famous last words, the collection. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
Parasoft sell two Insure++ versions. The version which is supposed to be multi-thread compatible used to cost 500 extra dollars (3500 instead of 3000) for the linux version. could it be that you were using the wrong version? btw, now that the israeli sales person, moti berger, has vanished, the USA sales department are asking for even a higher price. On 9 Sep 2002, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 13:27, Michael Sternberg wrote: Hello. Application I'm developing runs fine and fails only after two,three days of work under heavy load. I tried to use Insure++ from Parasoft but it adds a huge overhead - original application almost does not work. Interesting. In a previous job we tried to maek Insure++ to work with multithreaded applciations for several months(!) and although we had no problem running out applciation with it we didn't get from it almost any meaningfull output - it didn't find anything. Including problem we discovered with other means (staring at the source code) and we knew were there. Gilad. -- Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon one penguin, two penguin, three penguin... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 17:23, Orna Agmon wrote: Parasoft sell two Insure++ versions. The version which is supposed to be multi-thread compatible used to cost 500 extra dollars (3500 instead of 3000) for the linux version. could it be that you were using the wrong version? No, it was the multi threaded version complete with the higher price tag :-) Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com We don't need kernel hackers or geniuses, we need good developers who will do what they're told. Famous last words, the collection. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, it was the multi threaded version complete with the higher price tag :-) Did you ask Parasoft for a refund? ;-) -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shared hosting enviorment docs
Hi, I'm looking for any kind of links to documents you might have about shared hosting enviorment. Anything from the simpelst howto, system and server security, fine tunning and code patching to complex cluster solutions, high-end servers recommendation (in the docs) and low price hardware resellers. But mostly good old docs regarding the subject. Thanks Guy -- Unix Administration, | http://www.unixadmin.co.il locally and remotely. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Planning, installation,| Phone: 972-3-6201373 support upgrades.| Location: Unrestricted = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendsms version 3.1.2a released
Hi All! I have just released a new version of sendsms. This version includes the following updates: - Orange updated to use http://sms.gt.com.ua/ which limits to two messages per destination per day, no subscription. - Pelephone updated to do BiDi inside for Hebrew messages. Users are urged to install FriBidi as explained in the script file. Users which do not install FriBidi will se digits and English reversed in Hebrew messages. - Pelephone email gateway added for backup if an English message is denied by the site. No additional modules needed. The release is available, as always, at: http://ilsendsms.sf.net/ A special mailing list is now available for sms related announcments. Sign up at: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ilsendsms-announce Alon -- This message was sent by Alon Altman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ICQ:1366540 The RIGHT way to contact me is by e-mail. I am otherwise nonexistent :) -- -=[ Random Fortune ]=- Polymer physicists are into chains. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Memory checkers
There are plenty of open source utilities: memory patrol, electric fence, checker - just to name a few. I don't have time to check every one of them. What you can propose ? I've had good experience with DMALLOC and a bit of electric fence. I haven't been able to find a VERY GOOD tool for multithreaded appications :-\ Can you elaborate a bit more on your problem ? Are you absolutely sure it's related to memory leaks ? could it be something else (such as heap corruption) ?? Have you tried wrapping around malloc()/free() calls and print some debug information ? After the program stops you might parse the info and look for indescrepencies just a thought.. Eli = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Automatic GPG key import
Hi, We are trying to import public keys into a keyring automatically, where the keys are fully trusted (we use another authentication method for that). However, gpg will refuse to sign the keys in batch mode and needs manual intervention. Our only alternative is --always-trust, which is a bad alternative. Does anybody know a good method of importing (trusted) public keys into a key ring? Thanks, Aviram Jenik Beyond Security Ltd. http://www.BeyondSecurity.com http://www.SecuriTeam.com Know that you're safe: http://www.AutomatedScanning.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Looking for a chat script for adsl for dial on demand
I am trying to setup the pptp/ppp ADSL combo so that it dials on demand, however it is asking for a chat script. Does anyone have one that would fit the Netvision logon procedure ? Thanks in advance Yaacov = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Microsoft to Cross the Borders
Well, not exactly... But according to tomorrow's edition of Boker-Tov (Good Morning), Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Full story at: http://bokertov.net/10-9-2002/news.htm -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
At 21:20 +0300 on 9/9/2002, Eli Marmor wrote: Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Embrace and extend again? (As in: contaminate the code with enough non-standard gadgets that people won't be able to work with the original version.) Herouth -- EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HOME PAGE: http://herouth.port5.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Eli Marmor wrote: Well, not exactly... But according to tomorrow's edition of Boker-Tov (Good Morning), Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Full story at: http://bokertov.net/10-9-2002/news.htm Reading this site, I have a strange feeling the reporter misread http://softwarechoice.org/ (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26616.html , which may have got its author fired) -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for a chat script for adsl for dial on demand
Yaacov Fenster - System Engineering Troubleshooting and other miracles [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am trying to setup the pptp/ppp ADSL combo so that it dials on demand, however it is asking for a chat script. Does anyone have one that would fit the Netvision logon procedure ? I am not sure I understand what on demand means in the context of ADSL. On of the features/advantages of ADSL connection is that it is always on, at flat rate. That said, here is a pair of scripts that work for me with Netvision (also see http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~mulix/adsl-howto.txt): $ cat /etc/ppp/adsl-up #!/bin/sh /usr/sbin/pptp 10.0.0.138 --quirks=BEZEQ_ISRAEL debug \ user username@INetvision \ remotename 10.0.0.138 RELAY_PPP1 \ defaultroute noipdefault \ mtu 1452 mru 1452 noauth \ lcp-echo-interval 60 lcp-echo-failure 3 $ cat /etc/ppp/adsl-down #!/bin/sh /sbin/ifconfig ppp0 down /usr/bin/killall pppd and the appropriate /etc/ppp/pap-secrets, of course. The dial-up-related chat scripts are explained in the appropriate howtos. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
Herouth Maoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 21:20 +0300 on 9/9/2002, Eli Marmor wrote: Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Does this mean that Bruce Perens will be rehired by HP? At higher salary? (As in: contaminate the code with enough non-standard gadgets that people won't be able to work with the original version.) I really doubt M$ will not try to circumvent GPL in any way. If they port Word to Linux, I am all for it. Most importantly, I would tend to view an unconfirmed report on an Israeli site of unknown (to me) reputation with much suspicion. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Herouth Maoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 21:20 +0300 on 9/9/2002, Eli Marmor wrote: Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Does this mean that Bruce Perens will be rehired by HP? At higher salary? Hmmm Thinking about conspiracies, I would prefer to believe that Perens was hired by HPQ as their fig-leaf (Alle-Te'ena), and not after Microsoft crossing the lines, their no need for his job anymore... ;-) Now more seriously: I think that Tzafrir was right, and that somebody there found mslinux.org or one of the other hoax sites, and though that he found America. What a fashla. -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
Hmm, never heard of that.. MS does support (financially) the software choice alliance - but if you look close - their chose is MS Office.. I asked few of the reporters in the media, none of them knew about anything... Hetz On Monday 09 September 2002 21:20, Eli Marmor wrote: Well, not exactly... But according to tomorrow's edition of Boker-Tov (Good Morning), Microsoft is crossing the borders, supports Linux, releases its own version of Linux, and joins a group of software companies that support Open Source and choice/liberty. Full story at: http://bokertov.net/10-9-2002/news.htm To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
Reading this site, I have a strange feeling the reporter misread http://softwarechoice.org/ (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26616.html , which may have got its author fired) That is one strong artical if anyone has connection in israeli maganizes like ynet and walla I would urge them to make use of them to push this articial into the news. People should read it. why would it get it's author fired btw?it's one of the best I read in a long while Ely = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft to Cross the Borders
On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 12:37:01AM +0300, Ely Levy wrote: Reading this site, I have a strange feeling the reporter misread http://softwarechoice.org/ (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26616.html , which may have got its author fired) That is one strong artical if anyone has connection in israeli maganizes like ynet and walla I would urge them to make use of them to push this articial into the news. People should read it. why would it get it's author fired btw?it's one of the best I read in a long while Because tha author used to work for HP-Compaq, which is apparently MS's number one customer and therefore does not look too fondly upon its employees bashing MS. Read today's slashdot. The author is Bruce Perens, who was fired from HP a few days ago. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda syscalltrack hacker-at-large msg21668/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Shared hosting environment docs
I'm replying to my self so thats pretty sad, but i see I got no answer what so ever and I wondered maybe I just didn't explain my self correctly. Saying shared hosting environment does not mean in any way windows shared server/network crap. I was talking about a linux/bsd/solaris server that runs apache and have several (more then 100) virtual domains, many users, virtual or non virtual ftpd, postfix or sendmail servers, etc etc, in simple words a web hosting company. Any docs on subject would be welcome. I know the 2 words: search engine, I've done a good share of searching. I'm looking for the extra nautch.. On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 06:26:02PM +0300, Guy Cohen wrote: Hi, I'm looking for any kind of links to documents you might have about shared hosting environment. Anything from the simplest howto, system and server security, fine tuning and code patching to complex cluster solutions, high-end servers recommendation (in the docs) and low price hardware resellers. But mostly good old docs regarding the subject. Thanks Guy -- Unix Administration, | http://www.unixadmin.co.il locally and remotely. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Planning, installation,| Phone: 972-3-6201373 support upgrades.| Location: Unrestricted = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unix Administration, | http://www.unixadmin.co.il locally and remotely. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Planning, installation,| Phone: 972-3-6201373 support upgrades.| Location: Unrestricted = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for a chat script for adsl for dial on demand
Yaacov Fenster - System Engineering Troubleshooting and other miracles [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for the scripts. However that is not what I am looking for. I have a Linux machine as a firewall/gateway (NATing) for the rest of the LAN. The issue of dial on demand is that whenever a packet comes in from the LAN destined for the outside, the dialer should kick in. When I set the demand option in /etc/ppp/options, pppd (being called by pptp) asks for a chat script to connect up. This is what I am looking for. I have no problem manually (or automatically) initiating a pptp connection to Netvision. I want one that is demand initiated. I understand what dial on demand is. What I didn't understand was why bother if you have ADSL. I used to have a chat script for Netvision for a modem line, but I seem to have lost it (used kppp for quite a while before I got ADSL). As I wrote, it did not differ from whatever was written in the appropriate HOWTO. Also see man chat(8). My guess is it will work once you insert the right username from the ADSL-HOWTO. It will help if you send the chat script you are using to the list, and tell us what's wrong, including debug information. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
