TAU website and information
Hi, I'm starting my first year at TAU (Tel Aviv University) this year. I recently got mail regarding my faculty's website, that it contains vital information etc. etc. I was not particularly surprised to see that the website is: A. Horrible - Has a weird green border around the page (what happened to plain HTML?). B. IE specific - Mozilla displays it reasonably (presumably in broken mode), but Opera does not. Needless to say it does not pass the W3C HTML validator. C. Huge - I'm assuming they are trying to avoid Hebrew problems by using images. The page http://www.tau.ac.il/lifesci/students/sec.html is about 600K. It takes 1-2 minutes to load it Over my ISDN connection. Also, critical information (class schedule) is only available in MS Word format, which is not displayed properly (the actual document, not the format) under OpenOffice, AbiWord or even WordPad. My questions are: 1. Is there any point in trying to fight this? If so, how? 2. Is there an alternative I can offer? Is there at all such a thing as HTML compliant Hebrew webpage which is displayed properly by all browsers? Is there a format which can contain Hebrew and is supported by various applications on multiple platforms? 3. Are the recent developments in getting the Israeli government to make information available in open formats relevant here? I believe TAU is a state University - shouldn't (don't?) they have to be compliant with that initiative? 4. What options do I personally have? I *do* need access to that information but I do not have MS Office and have no intention of either pirating or buying it (or installing it on my computer, even if I had a license). I'm also planning to move completely to Linux pretty soon, which would make running Word an impossibility. Thanks, Alexander Maryanovsky. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
Hi, I talked with Itzhak Mintz yesterday. He told me several things: 1. The only windows specific bit in Qtext is that certain classes inherit from a class for a generic window (something called hwindow). Everything else (including buttons, menus, fonts ...) is their own. I guess this should make the porting effort minimal. 2. He would like to be in contact with someone who is willing to take responsibility for the porting project. If there is someone who is willing to do this, please email me. 3. The algorithms are not patented. Furthermore, he claims that the same ideas that they use in QText can be applied in general to solve most of the bidi problems (in essence, the idea is that the standards should be changed so that all non-word characters will have a r2l version, so there will be a r2l '-', a r2l ' ' and so on). He said that if someone is interested in addopting it for the system level (whatever it means... I gather that bidi support is dealt with in QT, but I have no idea what happens with applications that are not QT based), he is willing to help. If someone is interested in this, please email me. He also showed me their last version for windows, and it *is* much better than whatever I saw so far (actually, it seems better than M$ word even without the bidi issues). Moshe PS: I'm going to miluim this Monday for a month, so if you want to contact him through me, send me an email before that. Moshe Kaminsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] [24/09/02 11:27]: Hi, When I was a kid, I used a word processor called Qtext on my dos machine. It was a freeware written by an Israeli guy, and had a better (by far) bidi support than any alternative I knew. Yesterday, I discovered that I work with the guy who wrote it in the same room. He told me that Qtext still exists, it is no longer a freeware (it belongs to his kibutz) and that it still has the best bidi support (they have only a window$ version). He also told me that the developement of Qtext has stopped, since people seem to prefer M$ word (apparently for the same obscure reasons they prefer other M$ software :). Anyway, he told me that they might be willing to sell the source. Since they ceased developing it, I guess the price won't be very high, and if it is possible to port it to linux, this might be the best bidi word processor we have (it also supports Arabic and nikud). My question is, is there someone who might want to fund it? Moshe -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Moshe Kaminsky (Home) 08-9471073 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mandrake Linux Dolphin 9.0 is released, and ready to downl
I'm downloading MKK-9.0 and I noticed that two of the three CDs are 700 Mega each (the third is 450 Mega). I don't know why they did this, but my question is - will I have problems burning these with cdrecord? In the past, when I accidently created an image greater than 650 Mega, I wasn't able to burn it. I read the man page and searched GOOGLE but couldn't find any reference to writing CDs bigger than 650 Mega. Is it enough to simply use media that support 700 Mega or is there some parameter I don't know about? Here's my version of cdrecord [root@shlomo1 root]# cdrecord -version Cdrecord 1.10 (i586-mandrake-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jörg Schilling TIA //- Shlomo Solomon E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Date: 27-Sep-2002 Time: 12:59:23 Message sent by XFMail on a LINUX Mandrake 8.1 machine //- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 02:58:59PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: In any case, you have been warned about Larry's attitude. Since he started with BitKeeper, he pulled the public repository holding the source code off, made the license worse, and has grown entirely grumpy and unhappy about everything. He expects free software developers to use BitKeeper just because it is a great product, without giving consideration to how open-source or close to open-source it is. He does not expect anything. He offers a choice, which every free software developer can choose to accept or not. Moreover, from experience of working with him, he treats free users who bug him with questions as a burden - as a time being lost that could have been spent otherwise. I have read the entire site and yet failed to understand a few things. I believe other free and commercial users would have encountered similar problems. The site should have been updated to reflect my input, but it did not yet. This is bullshit, Shlomi, pure and simple. He solicited the kernel developers for features and improvements in bitkeeper many times, and usually went ahead and implemented what they wanted. Maybe he treated *you* as a burden - I can certainly understand why. Every dealing I had with him was polite and curteous - on both sides. I am now happily working with Aegis on I, Bex! which is one of my pre-BK projects. The people in the mailing list are nice and just happy that I use it. One Israeli user sat with me through a several hours IRC session, and instructed me step by step on creating the Aegis repository and making my first change. Aegis is more pedantic and a bit more over-killish than BK is. But it also seems more powerful in some respects. I did not see such attitude from Mr. McVoy, albeit some of the other BitMover employees came close. So use Aegis and be happy, but g*d damn it, stop slandering Larry McVoy where he cannot respond! Don't you see how childish and petulant your behaviour is? I have no intention to commit any crime. My intentions are solely focused on advocacy and writing code. But mark my words: AFA the free software world is concerned, Larry McVoy is bad news. You should not use BitKeeper for your own good. As for commercial users - I can only ask them if they are willing to do business with a person of such negative magnitude. I personally, would not. Fine. Now, please, stop sending these diatribes to linux-il, or hackers-il, or any other mailing list where they are not appropriate. Otherwise, well, *plonk*. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? msg22191/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
A hack to get logging information from Alcatel ADSL Modem/router
(I know this is mostly-Linux unrelated, but some people here
who use Alcatel moedm as a router, with Linux, can find it useful)
While doing a routine telnet to my modem, I've discovered that
you can get a remarkable amount of information regarding the
activity of your modem, on the fly.
This is important especially for those of us who need to
update their dynamic IP on a dynamic DNS host server
every time it is changed.
I've proviously written a script that pulls the IP from the
modem by running telnet, and let it run every 5 minutes (BTW,
I also solved the problem with identd). But now, after discovering
the logging information, I can write a daemon that waits for the
modem to report the IP change.
The logging is activated by connecting using TCP/IP to
the modem (usually 10.0.0.138), and sending the 0x11 byte:
#include sys/types.h
#include sys/socket.h
#include netinet/in.h
#include netinet/tcp.h
#include arpa/inet.h
int main()
{
int sock, rc;
struct sockaddr_in sin = {0,};
char buf;
sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
if (sock == -1) {
perror(sock);
return -1;
}
sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
sin.sin_port = htons(23);
sin.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr(10.0.0.138);
rc = connect(sock, (struct sockaddr *)sin, sizeof(sin));
if (rc != 0) {
perror(connect);
return -1;
}
sleep(1);
recv(sock, buf, sizeof(buf), 0);
buf = 0x11;
send(sock, buf, 1, 0);
dup2(sock, 0);
execl(/bin/cat, /bin/cat, NULL);
return 0;
}
Running this while connecting to my ISP, I get on my side:
---
Bit Swap Report (for line 0)
CarrierNr Bi Old Bi New GiOld GiNew
= == == = =
382 0 -14.5 -12.5
572 3 -14.5 -14.5
Results of bitswap algorithm :
==
Minimum noise margin: 17.1 dB (on carrier 56)
Maximum noise margin: 25.8 dB (on carrier 78)
Total gain power: 10.4
Nominal Gi : -12.0 dB
Boost Gi: -12.0 dB
---
RX BITSWAP REQUEST ...
PILOT_ERASE ON
PILOT_ERASE OFF
done at sync 7 and symb 0
[0] E - : PPP_SET_ROUTE
enter attach atm 0
[0] E - : PPP_LINK_OPEN
[0] E - : PPP_LINK_UP
[0] E - : Link Started
[0] E - : PPP_SET_DETCB
[Remote message: Welcome to NetVision, hana aloni
]
[0] E - : local IP address 199.203.153.213
[0] E - : remote IP address 199.203.153.1
Unfortunately this doesn't slove the problem of what if the
IP changed while my computer was down (although it's down only
0.001% of the time).
--
Dan Aloni
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ccache
hi, i am not a developer. actualy, i cant code at all. the only thing i am doing as far as compilation, is to compile some of my own applications, and rebuild kde from cvs every few days. i am building kde on a P4, 1.5Ghz, 780MB of ram, and since i am updating most of the modules, it takes a lot of time. recently, i saw something about ccache. i've read the documentation, and downloaded the latest ccache (1.9). its installed, but before i'll try using it, i was wondering if anyone has any expirience with it, compiling large ammounts of code, and if there's anything i should know (other then what the howto states) all comments are welcomed. thanks, tal. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:52:31PM +0300, Amir Tal wrote: hi, i am not a developer. actualy, i cant code at all. Well, what are you waiting for? :) recently, i saw something about ccache. i've read the documentation, and downloaded the latest ccache (1.9). its installed, but before i'll try using it, i was wondering if anyone has any expirience with it, compiling large ammounts of code, and if there's anything i should know (other then what the howto states) I have been using it to compile everything I compile (mostly kernels). I never saw it miscompile anything, which would've been a showstopper for this kind of tool. Ocasionally it seems to stop working (compilation times rise) when the cache gets to half a gigabyte or saw, but it might be because I'm using an early version. Emptying the cache always makes it ok. all comments are welcomed. You might also want to check out 'distcc', for a distributed ccache like tool. If you've got several machines to compile on, it can be a big boost. I haven't played with it yet, though. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? msg22195/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mandrake Linux Dolphin 9.0 is released, and ready to downl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm downloading MKK-9.0 and I noticed that two of the three CDs are 700 Mega each (the third is 450 Mega). I don't know why they did this, but my question is - will I have problems burning these with cdrecord? In the past, when I accidently created an image greater than 650 Mega, I wasn't able to burn it. I read the man page and searched GOOGLE but couldn't find any reference to writing CDs bigger than 650 Mega. Is it enough to simply use media that support 700 Mega or is there some parameter I don't know about? Here's my version of cdrecord [root@shlomo1 root]# cdrecord -version Cdrecord 1.10 (i586-mandrake-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jrg Schilling cdrecord of up to 700MB (real - i.e. 700*2^20 bytes, and not 700*10^6) works for me great under Mandrake 8.1. And I can read them under both - Linux AND Windows. The only reason I can see for a fault, is wrong media; Not any CD can store 700MB (a.k.a 80 minutes). It should be printed on the cover of the CD. -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Qtext
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:17:41 +0300, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: I talked with Itzhak Mintz yesterday. He told me several things: 2. He would like to be in contact with someone who is willing to take responsibility for the porting project. If there is someone who is willing to do this, please email me. As I have some exprience with both BiDi and Object-Pascal/Delphi, and think QText 5.5 was the best word-processor, ever, I'd be happy to volunteer for this job. Shay. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
Hmm, openoffice, koffice, abiword, staroffice etc... Also try to ask them if they got HTML versions.. I can ask them, but if they had HTML (or PDF) versions, surely they would put them up on the website... no? Alexander Maryanovsky. At 15:50 27.09.2002 +0200, Eliran wrote: Alexander Maryanovsky wrote: My questions are: 1. Is there any point in trying to fight this? If so, how? Email perhaps ? 2. Is there an alternative I can offer? Is there at all such a thing as HTML compliant Hebrew webpage which is displayed properly by all browsers? Is there a format which can contain Hebrew and is supported by various applications on multiple platforms? Design a new site for them. The other questions depends on other things. 4. What options do I personally have? I *do* need access to that information but I do not have MS Office and have no intention of either pirating or buying it (or installing it on my computer, even if I had a license). I'm also planning to move completely to Linux pretty soon, which would make running Word an impossibility. Hmm, openoffice, koffice, abiword, staroffice etc... Also try to ask them if they got HTML versions.. -- a href=http://www.rootshell.be/~eg;Eliran G/a = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
Alexander Maryanovsky wrote: Email who? The guys who make the website? They're not likely to care, having designed and put up such horror. University officials? Do you know anyone specific who might care and have the power to do something about it? Yes the guys who make the site. Check with other students if they care and show the webmaster that people really want a change. There's not much to design. All you need is plain simple, static HTML... There are no forms to submit, no elaborate menus, just plain information. At most, a table is required to display class schedule. So? Why won't you try to talk to them ? What do the other questions depend on? I'm just not sure at all whether it's possible to write an HTML page with Hebrew and have it show up properly (not reversed) on all browsers... I'm not an HTML guru, I just know the basic stuff and would need to look up the spec to write a table :-) I'm also not aware of a file format which handles Hebrew *and* English properly (for pure Hebrew, you could use plain text)... Is there such a thing? Hmm, it is possible (Writing reversed hebrew, some dir properties, meta tags, etc). But some browsers doesn't support hebrew because of encodings and environment (console?). Like I said, it doesn't display properly in OpenOffice or AbiWord. Is koffice worth trying at this point? Would StarOffice (which I don't own) be any different from OpenOffice on this issue? No clue. Why won't you d/l this file to a floopy check the file on some1 elses computer as a temporary solution ? -- a href=http://www.rootshell.be/~eg;Eliran G/a = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mandrake Linux Dolphin 9.0 is released, and ready to downl
Check your CDs. Do you hold some 700MB CDs at home? If you don't, you should. There's no need to buy 650MB ones anymore. Cdrecord works great with 700MB CDs, and even has an overburn option, if you hold 800MB (90 minutes) CDs. On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm downloading MKK-9.0 and I noticed that two of the three CDs are 700 Mega each (the third is 450 Mega). I don't know why they did this, but my question is - will I have problems burning these with cdrecord? In the past, when I accidently created an image greater than 650 Mega, I wasn't able to burn it. I read the man page and searched GOOGLE but couldn't find any reference to writing CDs bigger than 650 Mega. Is it enough to simply use media that support 700 Mega or is there some parameter I don't know about? Here's my version of cdrecord [root@shlomo1 root]# cdrecord -version Cdrecord 1.10 (i586-mandrake-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jörg Schilling TIA //- Shlomo Solomon E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Date: 27-Sep-2002 Time: 12:59:23 Message sent by XFMail on a LINUX Mandrake 8.1 machine //- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
Email who? The guys who make the website? They're not likely to care, having designed and put up such horror. University officials? Do you know anyone specific who might care and have the power to do something about it? Yes the guys who make the site. Check with other students if they care and show the webmaster that people really want a change. I will... I just don't actually *know* any other students yet, except friends on other faculties :-) So? Why won't you try to talk to them ? I will... I was looking for pointers from the list in the meanwhile. Pointers on how to approach this issue. Pointers on which software to suggest and which arguments to use. Hmm, it is possible (Writing reversed hebrew, some dir properties, meta tags, etc). But some browsers doesn't support hebrew because of encodings and environment (console?). Won't browsers that display Hebrew correctly display it reversed then? Obviously I was referring only to browsers that have some level of Hebrew (Bidi) support, not lynx. No clue. Why won't you d/l this file to a floopy check the file on some1 elses computer as a temporary solution ? That's a rather balky solution, but once I have access to the computer lab in the University, I'll be able to do that there... Alexander Maryanovsky. At 16:51 27.09.2002 +0200, Eliran wrote: Alexander Maryanovsky wrote: Email who? The guys who make the website? They're not likely to care, having designed and put up such horror. University officials? Do you know anyone specific who might care and have the power to do something about it? Yes the guys who make the site. Check with other students if they care and show the webmaster that people really want a change. There's not much to design. All you need is plain simple, static HTML... There are no forms to submit, no elaborate menus, just plain information. At most, a table is required to display class schedule. So? Why won't you try to talk to them ? What do the other questions depend on? I'm just not sure at all whether it's possible to write an HTML page with Hebrew and have it show up properly (not reversed) on all browsers... I'm not an HTML guru, I just know the basic stuff and would need to look up the spec to write a table :-) I'm also not aware of a file format which handles Hebrew *and* English properly (for pure Hebrew, you could use plain text)... Is there such a thing? Hmm, it is possible (Writing reversed hebrew, some dir properties, meta tags, etc). But some browsers doesn't support hebrew because of encodings and environment (console?). Like I said, it doesn't display properly in OpenOffice or AbiWord. Is koffice worth trying at this point? Would StarOffice (which I don't own) be any different from OpenOffice on this issue? No clue. Why won't you d/l this file to a floopy check the file on some1 elses computer as a temporary solution ? -- a href=http://www.rootshell.be/~eg;Eliran G/a = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Eliran wrote: 4. What options do I personally have? I *do* need access to that information but I do not have MS Office and have no intention of either pirating or buying it (or installing it on my computer, even if I had a license). I'm also planning to move completely to Linuxpretty soon, which would make running Word an impossibility. Hmm, openoffice, koffice, abiword, staroffice etc... Also try to ask them if they got HTML versions.. Or PDF versions. I checked the Life Sciences yedion this morning, when I saw the OP. There are little PDF icons next to Word icons, but some of them are disabled (no PDF version, I presume?), and others complain about fonts and refuse to render. I didn't spend too much time on it. $ cat /etc/redhat-release Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) $ rpm -q mozilla acroread mozilla-0.9.9-12.7.3 acroread-505-1 Asking for HTML or PDF (where P stands for Portable) versions seems reasonable. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Alexander Maryanovsky wrote: 2. Is there an alternative I can offer? Is there at all such a thing as HTML compliant Hebrew webpage which is displayed properly by all browsers? Is there a format which can contain Hebrew and is supported by various applications on multiple platforms? Design a new site for them. The other questions depends on other things. There's not much to design. All you need is plain simple, static HTML... There are no forms to submit, no elaborate menus, just plain information. At most, a table is required to display class schedule. What do the other questions depend on? I'm just not sure at all whether it's possible to write an HTML page with Hebrew and have it show up properly (not reversed) on all browsers... I'm not an HTML guru, I just know the basic stuff and would need to look up the spec to write a table :-) I'm also not aware of a file format which handles Hebrew *and* English properly (for pure Hebrew, you could use plain text)... Is there such a thing? HTML 4.0 has quite a decent Hebrew support (except for 'align=right' and 'align=left', which have no bidi seamtics). Browsers that support it: * Explorer, as of ~4.0 or 5.0 in a more decent manner * mozilla, as of around 0.9.1 (Netscape 6.1 ?, galeon, chmera, k-meleon, etc.) * konqueror, as of ~2.0 * the upcoming opera 7? Browsers that don't support it are: * Opera * Older versions of netscape/mozilla (espacially on big-endian machines) * lynx and probably all other text-mode browsers * browsers in most PDAs (?) For all the above on X there are some workarounds that give some resonable resuklts in some cases, (e.g: lynx -dump| bidiv) but you can assume most people should have an access to a browser with dcent Hebrew support (Font setup is usually simple to solvable problem.) -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TAU website and information
On 27 Sep 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: I checked the Life Sciences yedion this morning, when I saw the OP. There are little PDF icons next to Word icons, but some of them are disabled (no PDF version, I presume?), and others complain about fonts and refuse to render. I didn't spend too much time on it. $ cat /etc/redhat-release Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) $ rpm -q mozilla acroread mozilla-0.9.9-12.7.3 acroread-505-1 Frankly I'm not so fond of Acrobad Reader (not only because it is non-free). Try using either ghostview (gv, or any other ghostscript frontend, like kghostview or ggv) or xpdf. -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]: I am not going to _force_ Larry to free BitKeeper. I have no intention of doing that. I am going to give Larry no choice but to free it. This is called outcompeting. No, this sounds more like armed roberry... :( Shlomi, because of BitKeeper's license, I'm not even considering it for anything. I'm using all sorts of other source-code control systems, but I didn't even bother looking at BitKeeper. I suggest you do the same. Forget about BitKeeper, just like you don't write Bill Gates about making his operating system free. Shlomi, your insistance in this issue simply does not make any sense! The only reason BitKeeper's license is a problem to the community is because Linus decided to use it for source-control of the kernel. This issue has been discussed to death in the Linux-Kernel mailing list. But why should you care about that so much??? Do you have many patches you want to commit into the kernel?? Besides, for years the Linux kernel did not use any source-control system at all, so you can go on pretending that it still doesn't. I suggest you simply pretend that BitKeeper does not exist. Continue using RCS or CVS, and be on the lookout for other free-software source code control systems. Or if you want, start your own project, but be aware that it isn't a trivial one. I'm still using, sometimes, my own source-code control system which I wrote many years ago. But it was more simplistic than RCS, not the other way around. I have no intention to commit any crime. My intentions are solely focused on advocacy and writing code. But mark my words: AFA the free software Note that ad-hominem advocacy, saying over and over on various public lists how a single relatively-private individual is wrong (and worse), can (and will) be considered unacceptable slander, not advocacy. Please leave mr. McVoy alone and pick a more constructive way to further your goal. One such constructive way, but a very hard one, can be to do your own project. Another can be to learn some replacement (e.g., the Aegis you described) and explain to us here why we should try it. Once that Aegis (whatever it is) becomes commonly used, you can be sure that people will start improving it - maybe to the point it will be good as BitKeeper. -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Sep 27 2002, 22 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |My greatest fear is that no-one will http://nadav.harel.org.il |remember me after I'm dead - some dead guy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: ccache: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:52:31PM +0300, Amir Tal wrote: recently, i saw something about ccache. i've read the documentation, and downloaded the latest ccache (1.9). its installed, but before i'll try using it, i was wondering if anyone has any expirience with it, compiling large ammounts of code, and if there's anything i should know (other then what the howto states) I have been using it to compile everything I compile (mostly kernels). I never saw it miscompile anything, which would've been a showstopper for this kind of tool. Ocasionally it seems to stop working (compilation times rise) when the cache gets to half a You guys got me curious. What is that ccache? What does it cache? Is it free software? -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Sep 27 2002, 22 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Cats know what we feel. They don't care, http://nadav.harel.org.il |but they know. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
On Friday 27 September 2002 19:42, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: ccache: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:52:31PM +0300, Amir Tal wrote: recently, i saw something about ccache. i've read the documentation, and downloaded the latest ccache (1.9). its installed, but before i'll try using it, i was wondering if anyone has any expirience with it, compiling large ammounts of code, and if there's anything i should know (other then what the howto states) I have been using it to compile everything I compile (mostly kernels). I never saw it miscompile anything, which would've been a showstopper for this kind of tool. Ocasionally it seems to stop working (compilation times rise) when the cache gets to half a You guys got me curious. What is that ccache? What does it cache? Is it free software? ccache is a compiler cache. It acts as a caching pre-processor to C/C++ compilers, using the -E compiler switch and a hash to detect when a compilation can be satisfied from cache. This often results in a 5 to 10 times speedup in common compilations. read the howto at : http://ccache.samba.org/ccache/ccache-man.html more info at : http://ccache.samba.org/ccache/ tal. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux 2.4.20-pre?-ac? kernels
and by telling ariel you are talking bullshit because it works for us - you are not making a good case. fact is, that it didn't work. and as far as i know ariel, i don't think he would go saying something did not work without doing some proper testing, and without realy seeing it not testing. THAT was NOT my point. The only point I tried to make is that RH default kernels are quite stable, though maybe not feature/architecture specific. Take a look at the thread, who was it that bashed RH for it's kernels without bringing any kind of evidence/proof ? Eli There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 07:42:46PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: You guys got me curious. What is that ccache? What does it cache? Is it free software? compiler cache. It caches intermediate object files, so that they don't need to be recompiled if you do the equivalent of 'make mrproper make' while only changing one file. http://ccache.samba.org/ It's GPL'd, and as I said, I have never seen it miscompile. Also, check out distcc, http://distcc.samba.org/. Work to integrate distcc and ccache is underway, AFAIK. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? msg22212/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: linux 2.4.20-pre?-ac? kernels
The problems started after upgrading to 1GB memory, I assume because the pattern of operation changed (less swapping). The problem occurs in kjournaled in a reproductivable manner, but I do not think kjournald is the problem, but that something else gets stuck, which causes kjournald to fail, and then the system stops. --Ariel That actually brings me to another point I'm always not sure of. Sometimes it's damn hard to figure out if the problem/bug is within a library or the kernel, as opposed to an application. Any thoughts guys ? E There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: Mandrake Linux Dolphin 9.0 is released, and ready to downl
Just use 700mb CDs, they cost just as much nowadays :) Besides, the feature you were referring to about burning larger images on 650 CDs is called Overburning (just in case you didn't know..). You can usually set the maximum length to burn (in Nero for example) and specify a 700Mb CD or so... (actually, 80 mins + 30 seconds worked for me) Eli 27/09/02 12:11:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm downloading MKK-9.0 and I noticed that two of the three CDs are 700 Mega each (the third is 450 Mega). I don't know why they did this, but my question is - will I have problems burning these with cdrecord? In the past, when I accidently created an image greater than 650 Mega, I wasn't able to burn it. I read the man page and searched GOOGLE but couldn't find any reference to writing CDs bigger than 650 Mega. Is it enough to simply use media that support 700 Mega or is there some parameter I don't know about? Here's my version of cdrecord [root@shlomo1 root]# cdrecord -version Cdrecord 1.10 (i586-mandrake-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jörg Schilling TIA //- Shlomo Solomon E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Date: 27-Sep-2002 Time: 12:59:23 Message sent by XFMail on a LINUX Mandrake 8.1 machine //- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones.. - Dire Straits = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 07:39:46PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: The only reason BitKeeper's license is a problem to the community is because Linus decided to use it for source-control of the kernel. This issue has been discussed to death in the Linux-Kernel mailing list. But why should you care about that so much??? Do you have many patches you want to commit into the kernel?? Besides, for years the Linux kernel did not use any source-control system at all, so you can go on pretending that it still doesn't. Just to make sure the facts are straight: - using bitkeeper for kernel development is easier, but it's by no means a prerequisite, as this paragraph seems to imply. - you can submit patches using diff patch just fine, same as always. - several people have scripts which take the latest / daily bitkeeper checkins and export them as patches. - Linus and Marcelo publish their kernels as tarballs and patches, same as always. - Alan Cox and several other notable developers do not use bitkeeper, because of the licensing/non free issue. So the only reason to use bitkeeper for kernel hacking is that it makes yours, the developer's, life easier. If you insist on ideology rather than pragmatism, you can get along just fine with diff and patch, same as before. [full disclosure: I use bitkeeper for non work related kernel development because it's so convenient, and for nothing else because of its license]. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? msg22215/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Qtext
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Matitiahu Allouche [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 13:29]: The main problem in a Bidi word processor is not how to transform logical to visual format. As Tzafrir Cohen mentioned, there are a number of libraries available for this purpose, which all generally produce the same results, the exceptions being for rather off-beat cases. The main problem is with the *interface*, mainly what should Delete, Backspace etc... perform, where the caret (or text cursor) should go after given operations, how to handle selection, to name a few important issues. Well, if you have the additional information that your character is a r2l character (even if it is a space or parentheses), this can help you decide what to do. I actually saw how both Backspace and selection work in QText, and it seems to work great. Neither of them made sense to me. Furthermore, Qtext conforms to the Win3.1 language switching convention, right-alt-shift always switches to Hebrew while left-alt-shift always switches to English, while Win9x uses both alt-shift simply as switch language, which means that the language shown on the toolbar is not necessarily the language Qtext writes in. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: BitKeeper Cont. [was Re: My projects are gone (fwd)]: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 07:39:46PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: Besides, for years the Linux kernel did not use any source-control system at all, so you can go on pretending that it still doesn't. Just to make sure the facts are straight: - using bitkeeper for kernel development is easier, but it's by no means a prerequisite, as this paragraph seems to imply. - you can submit patches using diff patch just fine, same as always. That's exactly what I meant when I said you can go on pretending that Bitkeeper doesn't exist. The fact that Linus and Marcelo (and a few of their close friends) chose to use that tool doesn't mean you have to too. You can still send in patches like you always did [1]. [1] If you ever did :) reminds me of that old joke, of a guy breaking his arm and getting a cast. He asks his doctor: Doctor, when will I be able to play piano?, to which the doctor replies I believe within two weeks. The guy exclaims: that's great, I could never play piano before!. -- Nadav Har'El|Saturday, Sep 28 2002, 22 Tishri 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A bird in the hand is safer than one http://nadav.harel.org.il |overhead. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
Muli Ben-Yehuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 07:42:46PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: You guys got me curious. What is that ccache? What does it cache? Is it free software? compiler cache. It caches intermediate object files, so that they don't need to be recompiled if you do the equivalent of 'make mrproper make' while only changing one file. This seems to me somehow slippery - it tries to think for the developer. If I do make clean|mrproper|dist etc I usually *want* to recompile everything. It shouldn't say, in effect, No, surely you didn't mean that. The above does not mean that I am arguing that it is not a useful tool. See also remarks below. http://ccache.samba.org/ It's GPL'd, and as I said, I have never seen it miscompile. Also, check out distcc, http://distcc.samba.org/. Work to integrate distcc and ccache is underway, AFAIK. I have never used it (ccache that is , I know nothing at all about distcc), so I am not really qualified to discuss it (I think I have a general understanding of how it works though), but I am a bit concerned about the possibility that it may thwart make's dependency tracking in some way when included files are deeply nested, some files are generated, and yet others are not in C (and I've been in situations like this quite often in my previous incarn^H^H^H^H^H^Hjobs). Basically, it competes with make for dependency tracking. It seems to try to do it in a smart way, but having two tools trying to outsmart each other seeds doubt in my mind. This doubt may have no foundation whatsoever, just unsubstantiated gut feeling. Also, how good is it for things other than kernel compilation? In very large projects (and for small ones it is not worth the trouble, I guess) it is often the case that the bulk of the build time is taken by preprocessor and linker, not the compilation. It is my understanding that ccache does not affect either preprocessing or linking, only compilation of preprocessed files. Can someone with experience with ccache comment on the above? I will be grateful. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied the greater intellectual challenge. [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 28 September 2002 02:07, you wrote: Basically, it competes with make for dependency tracking. It seems to try to do it in a smart way, but having two tools trying to outsmart each other seeds doubt in my mind. This doubt may have no foundation whatsoever, just unsubstantiated gut feeling. Totally wrong. The basic premise of ccache is the following: IF YOU RUN THE SAME COMPILER ON THE SAME SOURCE YOU SHOULD GET THE SAME OBJECT FILE. If you think that this does not take H files into consideration you are wrong. As Muli rightly states ccache takes the output of gcc -M which means the ENTIRE source that the compiler sees (H files and all AFTER preprocessor). In addition, it also stores the flags used for the compilation in the cache. I would rarely see a situation where you would say that YOU DO want the object recompiled unless you switched compilers (I'm not sure but I think that there are plans for ccache to store the compiler version too so if you switch compilers it will detect it and not use the cache. Muli ?!?). ccache has NOTHING to do with dependency tracking. It is a compiler wrapper. Think of it as adding a cache to gcc. Mark. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9lO6pxlxDIcceXTgRAqUOAKCngdxaQDaidaSJYRvLHwsrTG32kwCgkS0E 9OX2bE5KbzLwBy64rLQUS0Y= =AME7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccache
On Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 02:07:38AM +0300, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Muli Ben-Yehuda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 07:42:46PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: You guys got me curious. What is that ccache? What does it cache? Is it free software? compiler cache. It caches intermediate object files, so that they don't need to be recompiled if you do the equivalent of 'make mrproper make' while only changing one file. This seems to me somehow slippery - it tries to think for the developer. If I do make clean|mrproper|dist etc I usually *want* to recompile everything. It shouldn't say, in effect, No, surely you didn't mean that. Nope. All it does is replaces a certain step in the build process, namely, compiling an object file, with an equivalent step, namely, fetching that exact object file from the cache. If those two steps weren't equivalent in their output in all cases (an object file) in all cases, ccache would be unusable. I have never used it (ccache that is , I know nothing at all about distcc), so I am not really qualified to discuss it (I think I have a general understanding of how it works though), but I am a bit concerned about the possibility that it may thwart make's dependency tracking in some way when included files are deeply nested, some files are generated, and yet others are not in C (and I've been in situations like this quite often in my previous incarn^H^H^H^H^H^Hjobs). Basically, it competes with make for dependency tracking. It seems to try to do it in a smart way, but having two tools trying to outsmart each other seeds doubt in my mind. This doubt may have no foundation whatsoever, just unsubstantiated gut feeling. No, it works on different levels than make. If make decides that a file needs to be compiled and ccache decides to fetch that file from the cache, that usually means that your Makefile dependencies are screwy. Also, lots of people do not trust make and routinely do 'make distclean; make', even when unnecessary. ccache makes that a lot less painful. Also, how good is it for things other than kernel compilation? In very large projects (and for small ones it is not worth the trouble, I guess) it is often the case that the bulk of the build time is taken by preprocessor and linker, not the compilation. It is my understanding that ccache does not affect either preprocessing or linking, only compilation of preprocessed files. I think I measured it at around 50% time saving for a second kernel compilation (hot cache in both cases). For syscalltrack it was more like 90% time saving. Try it - it's simple to use, all you need to do to use it in a controlled fashion is: CC=ccache gcc make -- Muli Ben-Yehuda http://www.mulix.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sctrace strace /bin/foo http://syscalltrack.sf.net/ Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? msg0/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Qtext
Uri Bruck [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 23:11]: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Moshe Kaminsky wrote: Matitiahu Allouche [EMAIL PROTECTED] [27/09/02 13:29]: The main problem in a Bidi word processor is not how to transform logical to visual format. As Tzafrir Cohen mentioned, there are a number of libraries available for this purpose, which all generally produce the same results, the exceptions being for rather off-beat cases. The main problem is with the *interface*, mainly what should Delete, Backspace etc... perform, where the caret (or text cursor) should go after given operations, how to handle selection, to name a few important issues. Well, if you have the additional information that your character is a r2l character (even if it is a space or parentheses), this can help you decide what to do. I actually saw how both Backspace and selection work in QText, and it seems to work great. Neither of them made sense to me. Furthermore, Qtext conforms to the Win3.1 language switching convention, right-alt-shift always switches to Hebrew while left-alt-shift always switches to English, while Win9x uses both alt-shift simply as switch language, which means that the language shown on the toolbar is not necessarily the language Qtext writes in. QText does not use windows to handle bidi, but handles it internally. That's what makes it work. I think that being non windows compatible is a small price to pay for a working bidi support. -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net Moshe = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
