Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
Hey all, I just spoke to the organizer, Sami Abu-Schada. Talk is in the Hebrew-Arab theater in Yafo. They sound like good folks. And they would be happy to have people come (and don't want to get in to the politics). What: A talk by Richard Stallman sponsored by the jaffa youth movement Where: the Al Saraya Theater courtyard Mifratz Shlomo St. 10Ancient Jaffa (Near the HAMAM) When: July 22nd at 3pm (sharp) PDF with the full info: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/invitation-to-a-talk-by-richard-stallman-in-tel-aviv-israel-july-22nd signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011, Guy Sheffer wrote about Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details: Hey all, I just spoke to the organizer, Sami Abu-Schada. Talk is in the Hebrew-Arab theater in Yafo. They sound like good folks. And they would be happy to have people come (and don't want to get in to the politics). ... PDF with the full info: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/invitation-to-a-talk-by-richard-stallman-in-tel-aviv-israel-july-22nd They sure *do* want to get into the politics :( Did you see the emphasized text in the end of that invitation? the organizers of the event would like it to be known that they are in full support of the rights of Palestenians. In particular, the organizers support the call for boycott of complicit Israeli institutions. Richard Stallman is following the boycott during this trip out of respect to the Palestinians hosts who invited him to the region Do people who don't want to get in to the politics normally include such texts on invitations to talks about software? As it stands, because this text is so boldly included in the *invitation*, it looks like just *attending* this talk means you support this statement by its hosts. And if I consider that complicit Israeli institutions include, according to their definition, almost all Israeli institutions (and not just those directly involved with the occupied territories), certainly even insitution I ever worked at or studied at, I frankly don't see how I can attend this talk. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jul 17 2011, 15 Tammuz 5771 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Linux *is* user-friendly. Not http://nadav.harel.org.il |idiot-friendly, but user-friendly. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
Stallman asked me to inform people about his two talks: Haifa: Copyright vs Community in the Age of the Computer Networks July 21 at 5pm (sharp). Baladna Youth Club Zion Street 3-A Haifa Tel Aviv area: For a Free Digital Society July 22, 15:00 Al Saraya Theater Mifratz Shlomo St. 10 (near the hamam) Ancient Jaffa And I guess also about his explanation: http://stallman.org/articles/palestine-trip.html Orna 2011/7/17 Guy Sheffer guysof...@gmail.com ** Hey all, I just spoke to the organizer, Sami Abu-Schada. Talk is in the Hebrew-Arab theater in Yafo. They sound like good folks. And they would be happy to have people come (and don't want to get in to the politics). What: A talk by Richard Stallman sponsored by the jaffa youth movement Where: the Al Saraya Theater courtyard Mifratz Shlomo St. 10Ancient Jaffa (Near the HAMAM) When: July 22nd at 3pm (sharp) PDF with the full info: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/invitation-to-a-talk-by-richard-stallman-in-tel-aviv-israel-july-22nd ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/17/2011 04:35 PM, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011, Guy Sheffer wrote about Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details: Hey all, I just spoke to the organizer, Sami Abu-Schada. Talk is in the Hebrew-Arab theater in Yafo. They sound like good folks. And they would be happy to have people come (and don't want to get in to the politics). ... PDF with the full info: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/invitation-to-a-talk-by-richard-stallman-in-tel-aviv-israel-july-22nd They sure *do* want to get into the politics :( Did you see the emphasized text in the end of that invitation? the organizers of the event would like it to be known that they are in full support of the rights of Palestenians. In particular, the organizers support the call for boycott of complicit Israeli institutions. Richard Stallman is following the boycott during this trip out of respect to the Palestinians hosts who invited him to the region Do people who don't want to get in to the politics normally include such texts on invitations to talks about software? As it stands, because this text is so boldly included in the *invitation*, it looks like just *attending* this talk means you support this statement by its hosts. And if I consider that complicit Israeli institutions include, according to their definition, almost all Israeli institutions (and not just those directly involved with the occupied territories), certainly even insitution I ever worked at or studied at, I frankly don't see how I can attend this talk. It isn't necessary to read the invitation to the end. Right at the top, you can ask yourself about the probabilities of the reasons that would bring someone named Sawyer (the submitter) to Yafo. The organization is a dry-land flotilla. It was very foolish to arrange to meet in their premises. In face, it was very foolish indeed to try to cater to Mr Stallman's prejudices. To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/17/2011 09:15 AM, Stan Goodman wrote: To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... /me don't see what the argument is about. I'll simply vote against RMS's and his politically inclined friends bs with my feet by _not_ going. End of story -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Regards, Dan Yasny ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
2011/7/17 Dima (Dan) Yasny dya...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... /me don't see what the argument is about. I'll simply vote against RMS's and his politically inclined friends bs with my feet by _not_ going. End of story Yes, there is that. But thanks to the law passed last week we can also take affirmative action. I don't think that suing RMS or the FSF will be a good idea, or even feasible (IANAL and I'm pretty sure that this law doesn't hold for people/groups from abroad) but we might be able to sue the group financing his trip. Again, I'm not sure that that's even a good idea. But it is possible. -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Regards, Dan Yasny ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Fwd: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
-- Forwarded message -- From: Mordecha Behar mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il Date: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details To: Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.ilwrote: Written off-list, On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 08:26:39PM +0300, Mordecha Behar wrote: 2011/7/17 Dima (Dan) Yasny dya...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... /me don't see what the argument is about. I'll simply vote against RMS's and his politically inclined friends bs with my feet by _not_ going. End of story Yes, there is that. But thanks to the law passed last week we can also take affirmative action. I don't think that suing RMS or the FSF will be a good idea, or even feasible (IANAL and I'm pretty sure that this law doesn't hold for people/groups from abroad) but we might be able to sue the group financing his trip. Again, I'm not sure that that's even a good idea. But it is possible. While I find RMS's actions silly and damaging, I will take no part in such an action. I might even consider donating that group some money to cover their expences in case you actually go through with your actions. I'm for free speach here. Now, count to 10, relax a bit, read things through, and don't follow up on a flame fest. Hey, I'm not saying we *should* sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. Oh, and: GetTheFacts: http://stallmanfacts.com/ . Cheers, -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
+1 to that. Etzion On Jul 17, 2011 8:07 PM, Dima (Dan) Yasny dya...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... /me don't see what the argument is about. I'll simply vote against RMS's and his politically inclined friends bs with my feet by _not_ going. End of story -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Regards, Dan Yasny ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Mordecha Behar wrote: Hey, I'm not saying we should sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. This is from Stalman's posting: So I decided to follow my Palestinians hosts' boycott policy in the trip they organized, and I cancelled my speeches at Israeli universities. I apologize for not anticipating that this issue would arise. I have arranged two speeches at other venues in Israel, one in Haifa and one in Jaffa. Details can be found in fsf.org. This pretty much says that he is supporting a boycott and that it's fsf.org's policy. IMHO he should be sued. I'm not going to do it, but if I were presented with a poll or petition would say so. If he did not want to be offensive or politicize himself or the fsf, he could of said So I decided to not offend anyone.. but he did not he said that decided to follow ... the boycott. To toss out some ad homynms, he's a blight on free speech and free software and he and his fsf have outlived their usefulness. He has crossed the line over which he should never cross, mixing free software with support of terrorists. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Making your enemy reliant on software you support is the best revenge. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011, geoffrey mendelson wrote: To toss out some ad homynms, he's a blight on free speech and free software and he and his fsf have outlived their usefulness. He has crossed the line over which he should never cross, mixing free software with support of terrorists. You misspelled freedom fighters who wish to stop the occupation and the war crimes perpetrated by Israel. -- Matan Ziv-Av. ma...@svgalib.org Save Israel - Join the boycott on the settlements now. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details: And I guess also about his explanation: http://stallman.org/articles/palestine-trip.html Unlike other people on this list (who already mentioned Hitler on this thread, so I guess it should be officially over...), I personally do understand Stallman's view - that basically this boycott isn't as terrible as terrorism, so he'd rather see the Palestinians continue do things like this non-violent boycott, instead of returning to violent terrorism. That's all fine. But I don't understand why he seems to think that after he supported this boycott, we (Israelis) would want to hear him talk - whether he speaks in Jaffa, in Haifa, or in my back yard. And I most of all don't understand the closing of his explanation: I hope that Free Software / Barmagiyat Horrah / Tochna Chofshit can provide an opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to experience practical cooperation, and that this will make at least a small contribution to peace. This is one of the ridiculous pieces of irony (sorry Richard if you're reading this...) that I've read in a while. Indeed - free software *can* and *should* bring Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians, Indians, Pakistanis, Americans and everyone else together to do something useful together. But you can't do this when suddenly some of these free-software writers start to boycott the other free-softwre writers because of the universities they study at, the place they work at, or just the place they live in. Richard, the boycott that your Palestinian hosts asked you to support may sound to you justified, but no matter how you twist it around, it doesn't help the cause of free software. It will mean fewer (if any) Israelis will listen to your talk, it already means that many Israelis heard of free software for the first time through this negative story (which already appeared on the Israeli media), and it means that we lost a chance to perhaps bring together Palestinian and Israeli free software software writers and users - because now every such attempt will look to each side as a loss in some sort of juvenile pissing contest - a failure of the boycott or caving-in to one. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jul 17 2011, 16 Tammuz 5771 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Learn from mistakes of others; you won't http://nadav.harel.org.il |live long enough to make them all yourself ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 17/07/2011 20:39, geoffrey mendelson wrote: On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Mordecha Behar wrote: Hey, I'm not saying we should sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. This pretty much says that he is supporting a boycott and that it's fsf.org's policy. IMHO he should be sued. I'm not going to do it, but if I were presented with a poll or petition would say so. If he did not want to be offensive or politicize himself or the fsf, he could of said So I decided to not offend anyone.. but he did not he said that decided to follow ... the boycott. To toss out some ad homynms, he's a blight on free speech and free software and he and his fsf have outlived their usefulness. He has crossed the line over which he should never cross, mixing free software with support of terrorists. Geoff. Ad Hominem and Ad Rem: Have some of you gone mad ?! Gagging, prosecution, do i hear execution ? Perhaps he's an hypocrite feeble-minded-self-hating-jewish-leftists, a member of J street, or god forbidden, a liberal, SO WHAT? BLOCKING free speech! How DARE you! Have you lost your mind !? Some of you really frighten me because I know that most of my opinions should have been kept to myself :) -- Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/17/2011 07:19 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: On 07/17/2011 09:15 AM, Stan Goodman wrote: To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael Expressing agreement or disagreement is not what I said. I said making political conditions for deigning to accept the invitation (and, parenthetically, taking the hosts money). I did not mention e.g. Barenboim, but that is a whole nuther story. Stallman has the chutzpa to announce that he won't come unless we endorse his politics, those of a man who lives 10,000km away, and doesn't have to be frisked before he goes into a supermarket, and who would laugh at you if you suggested that he do what it takes to vote here. If the invitation has already been issued and accepted, I can only hope that nobody shows up except the committee, and that those worthies be left to explain to him why he is speaking to an empty hall. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Fwd: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/17/2011 08:43 PM, Mordecha Behar wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *Mordecha Behar* mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il mailto:mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il Date: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details To: Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il mailto:tzaf...@cohens.org.il On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il mailto:tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: Written off-list, On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 08:26:39PM +0300, Mordecha Behar wrote: 2011/7/17 Dima (Dan) Yasny dya...@gmail.com mailto:dya...@gmail.com On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.com mailto:orr.dunkel...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com mailto:michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com To be more general, it is unheard of for a prospective guest to set political conditions for his hosts. Aside of any other aspects, the man is a boor, and should have been ignored. I'm not sure that's true. Haven't musicians and other performers used their platform as a way to express agreement or disagreement with particular political positions for ages? Michael It is very rare in computer science to mix politics and work. Actually, this is true for most exact sciences. As for RMS, who is an advocate of freedom of rights, he has just agreed to accept money (travel costs) in exchange for giving away his freedom of speech. Tz'e Wolmad... /me don't see what the argument is about. I'll simply vote against RMS's and his politically inclined friends bs with my feet by _not_ going. End of story Yes, there is that. But thanks to the law passed last week we can also take affirmative action. I don't think that suing RMS or the FSF will be a good idea, or even feasible (IANAL and I'm pretty sure that this law doesn't hold for people/groups from abroad) but we might be able to sue the group financing his trip. Again, I'm not sure that that's even a good idea. But it is possible. While I find RMS's actions silly and damaging, I will take no part in such an action. I might even consider donating that group some money to cover their expences in case you actually go through with your actions. I'm for free speach here. Now, count to 10, relax a bit, read things through, and don't follow up on a flame fest. Nobody has challenged his right to free speech. Speech is not the issue. Personally, I would not be offended if he where to visit each of the major cities and get up on a soapbox at main intersections to express his views. What he is trying to do is to inflict his opinions of a conflict of which he can't know very much, on an entire organization, and to extract the agreement of that public to the rectitude of his views -- although they may well have views that are quite different. That is what makes him a boor, ya'ani, Am haAretz, and offensive. Hey, I'm not saying we *should* sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. Oh, and: GetTheFacts: http://stallmanfacts.com/ . Cheers, -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org mailto:tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il mailto:tzaf...@cohens.org.il | | best tzaf...@debian.org mailto:tzaf...@debian.org| | friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/17/2011 11:20 PM, Moish wrote: On 17/07/2011 20:39, geoffrey mendelson wrote: On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Mordecha Behar wrote: Hey, I'm not saying we should sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. This pretty much says that he is supporting a boycott and that it's fsf.org's policy. IMHO he should be sued. I'm not going to do it, but if I were presented with a poll or petition would say so. If he did not want to be offensive or politicize himself or the fsf, he could of said So I decided to not offend anyone.. but he did not he said that decided to follow ... the boycott. To toss out some ad homynms, he's a blight on free speech and free software and he and his fsf have outlived their usefulness. He has crossed the line over which he should never cross, mixing free software with support of terrorists. Geoff. Ad Hominem and Ad Rem: Have some of you gone mad ?! Gagging, prosecution, do i hear execution ? Perhaps he's an hypocrite feeble-minded-self-hating-jewish-leftists, a member of J street, or god forbidden, a liberal, SO WHAT? BLOCKING free speech! How DARE you! Have you lost your mind !? Arguably, he alone (in concert with his Palestinian hosts), is the one limiting free speech. Nobody here has intimated that he can't voice his views, whatever they are, although there was some talk about expressing them in the name of FSF. The discussion has nothing whatever to dowith free speech. The fact is, by the way, that the right of free speech has nothing to do with individuals at all, but is entirely a fence against government. The government of a free country may not forbid expression of protected speech (there are limitations to that as well). Individuals or groups are certainly not obligated to listen. You can't holler free speech if somebody insists upon telling you his views that you don't want to hear. The only free-speech issue that would arise in connection with Stallman would be if the Government should forbid or punish him for expressing them. The quotations above, beginning with Ad hominem and ending with Have you lost your mind!? were written by someone who never sat in a Civics class, and who has only the foggiest notion of what free speech actually means. Some of you really frighten me because I know that most of my opinions should have been kept to myself :) -- Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[RMS11] Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 22:58 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote: Arguably, he alone (in concert with his Palestinian hosts), is the one limiting free speech. This statement does not correspond to the facts of the case. The principle that RMS is violating is not the principle of free speech. The principle being violated is that of communications and cooperation in pursuit of a worthwhile endeavor (academic research or Free Software development) overriding political differences. Granted, the principle of academic research/Free Software development cooperation could force us to swallow rather giant foul-tasting frogs. Such as hypothetical cooperation with the Hizbollah in development and perfection of FriBidi or an hypothetical collaboration with Nazis in a project of developing a Free genealogical software, with accompanying database of freely-available genealogical information. --- Omer -- Palestinians did not firmly and vocally and strongly denounce the Hannover attack (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/german-youths-attack-jewi_n_623922.html) but rather supported the attack, even though it is yet another proof why Jews need their own country in which they can live safely. My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
[RMS11] Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 17/07/2011 21:58, Stan Goodman wrote: On 07/17/2011 11:20 PM, Moish wrote: On 17/07/2011 20:39, geoffrey mendelson wrote: On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Mordecha Behar wrote: Hey, I'm not saying we should sue, I'm just saying it's an option. And not a good one. We will alienate ourselves in the worldwide community of open software, and probably burn several bridges which will be very hard to rebuild. I too resent the whole idea of mixing computer science and politics. It makes the whole thing stink like unwashed feet. I'm just a little disappointed that the whole saga unraveled like this. I had higher opinions of RMS before this. This pretty much says that he is supporting a boycott and that it's fsf.org's policy. IMHO he should be sued. I'm not going to do it, but if I were presented with a poll or petition would say so. If he did not want to be offensive or politicize himself or the fsf, he could of said "So I decided to not offend anyone.." but he did not he said that "decided to follow ... the boycott". To toss out some ad homynms, he's a blight on free speech and free software and he and his fsf have outlived their usefulness. He has crossed the line over which he should never cross, mixing free software with support of terrorists. Geoff. Ad Hominem and Ad Rem: Have some of you gone mad ?! Gagging, prosecution, do i hear execution ? Perhaps he's an hypocrite feeble-minded-self-hating-jewish-leftists, a member of J street, or god forbidden, a liberal, SO WHAT? BLOCKING free speech! How DARE you! Have you lost your mind !? Arguably, he alone (in concert with his Palestinian hosts), is the one limiting free speech. Nobody here has intimated that he can't voice his views, whatever they are, although there was some talk about expressing them in the name of FSF. The discussion has nothing whatever to dowith free speech. The fact is, by the way, that the right of free speech has nothing to do with individuals at all, but is entirely a fence against government. The government of a free country may not forbid _expression_ of protected speech (there are limitations to that as well). Individuals or groups are certainly not obligated to listen. You can't holler "free speech" if somebody insists upon telling you his views that you don't want to hear. The only free-speech issue that would arise in connection with Stallman would be if the Government should forbid or punish him for expressing them. The quotations above, beginning with "Ad hominem" and ending with "Have you lost your mind!?" were written by someone who never sat in a Civics class, and who has only the foggiest notion of what "free speech" actually means. So, free speech has nothing to do with individuals? well, isn't you right of free speech allows you to say that I only the foggiest notion of "free speech"? Oh my oh my, and I expected gushing intelect and shrewd arguments. And that's the end of me trolling :) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary 1ad ho·mi·nem adj \(ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem, -nəm\ Definition of AD HOMINEM 1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect 2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made ad rem adv or adj \(ˌ)ad-ˈrem\ Definition of AD REM : to the point or purpose : relevantly -- Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [RMS11] Re: Finally - A RMS talk in Tel-Aviv. Including details
On 07/18/2011 01:03 AM, Moish wrote: So, free speech has nothing to do with individuals? well, isn't you right of free speech allows you to say that I only the foggiest notion of free speech? No, as I said, the concept of free speech has to do only with preventing governments from forbidding or punishing expressions of speech. I said nothing ad hominem, only that whoever (was that you?) wrote that paragraph never sat in a Civics class, i.e. knows nothing about the concept of free speech. You are not alone, by the way. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
