Re: Gmail and Claws
Not directly related, but I'd like to also point out, as no-one mentioned this yet: https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2019/12/less-secure-apps-oauth-google-username-password-incorrect.html TL;DR: they are stopping Less-Secure-Apps support in June. Blog post talks about "G Suite", so perhaps does not apply to gmail.com, not sure. So: Be prepared to start using OAUTH2, and if your favourite app does not support that, plan ahead - find an alternative, spend time adding that yourself, lobby... My guess is that even if this does not apply to gmail.com, nor to app-specific passwords, it will likely eventually apply to these. Didn't do a thorough search on the subject. Best regards, On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 5:37 AM Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:43:51 +0300 > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > I see what you're doing, but don't see how this would solve my > > problem. Moving from pop3 to imap would not change the fact that > > Google is not allowing me to login. > > It takes about 10 minutes to make the switch, and if necessary 10 > minutes to switch it back. If it changes the symptom, then your mental > model of how things really are (as opposed to their design or how a > sane person would design it) was inaccurate. In other words, the bug > could be bizarre, and if that's true, 10 minutes is the cheapest > possible way to find out. > > I wish I had a dime for every time somebody said "it can't be that, > that won't change it" when I recommended a diagnostic test, and then the > diagnostic test changes it in an unexpected way. > > > > And most probably, Ori is correct > > in his opinion that the problem is the login to Google services - not > > to pop3. > > > > > Or do you think that procmail would be allowed to login where claws is > > not allowed? > > That would be fetchmail grabbing your mail from the server. Fetchamail > grabs it, then hands it off, on your local machine, to procmail to be > sorted or /dev/nulled. In answer to your question, if Claws is buggy > when it pulls pop, then swapping in fetchmail would fix the problem. > Or, if the problem is with Google's pop server but not their imap > server, then switching to imap would fix the problem. And if the > problem doesn't get fixed, you ruled out some things. > > > > > Just to remind you of what I wrote in my original post - this has > > worked fine for many years and since nothing has changed on my end, I > > have no reason to think that pop3 is the problem. > > That's my point. The past few weeks you've randomly gotten this error > when pulling email. It's an intermittent problem, logic is the usual > victim of intermittent problem, and it's often best to use an alternate > set of debugging tactics when dealing with intermittents. > > What I'd do in your situation is: > > 1) Make a Claws folder just to contain downloaded stuff. > > 2) Temporarily configure fetchmail to retrieve from the offending gmail > account and send the messages to procmail. > > 3) Configure procmail to place all messages in your new folder > > 4) Look for evidence of login failures > > > In case you're using MH folders with your Claws, here are some docs on > how to get procmail to drop messages into MH folders: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/Procmail.html > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/336420/how-do-you-use-procmail-mda-to-deliver-files-to-be-read-by-mh > > https://linux.die.net/man/5/procmailex > > http://www.cs.utah.edu/~clake/soc_mh.html > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:43:51 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > I see what you're doing, but don't see how this would solve my > problem. Moving from pop3 to imap would not change the fact that > Google is not allowing me to login. It takes about 10 minutes to make the switch, and if necessary 10 minutes to switch it back. If it changes the symptom, then your mental model of how things really are (as opposed to their design or how a sane person would design it) was inaccurate. In other words, the bug could be bizarre, and if that's true, 10 minutes is the cheapest possible way to find out. I wish I had a dime for every time somebody said "it can't be that, that won't change it" when I recommended a diagnostic test, and then the diagnostic test changes it in an unexpected way. > And most probably, Ori is correct > in his opinion that the problem is the login to Google services - not > to pop3. > > Or do you think that procmail would be allowed to login where claws is > not allowed? That would be fetchmail grabbing your mail from the server. Fetchamail grabs it, then hands it off, on your local machine, to procmail to be sorted or /dev/nulled. In answer to your question, if Claws is buggy when it pulls pop, then swapping in fetchmail would fix the problem. Or, if the problem is with Google's pop server but not their imap server, then switching to imap would fix the problem. And if the problem doesn't get fixed, you ruled out some things. > > Just to remind you of what I wrote in my original post - this has > worked fine for many years and since nothing has changed on my end, I > have no reason to think that pop3 is the problem. That's my point. The past few weeks you've randomly gotten this error when pulling email. It's an intermittent problem, logic is the usual victim of intermittent problem, and it's often best to use an alternate set of debugging tactics when dealing with intermittents. What I'd do in your situation is: 1) Make a Claws folder just to contain downloaded stuff. 2) Temporarily configure fetchmail to retrieve from the offending gmail account and send the messages to procmail. 3) Configure procmail to place all messages in your new folder 4) Look for evidence of login failures In case you're using MH folders with your Claws, here are some docs on how to get procmail to drop messages into MH folders: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/Procmail.html https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/336420/how-do-you-use-procmail-mda-to-deliver-files-to-be-read-by-mh https://linux.die.net/man/5/procmailex http://www.cs.utah.edu/~clake/soc_mh.html SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:39:12 +0300 Shlomi Fish wrote: > > BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your > > article on "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article > > years ago because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring > > out how to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move > > to Claws. > > > > > Steve and you were not alone: > > * https://github.com/shlomif/convert-away-from-kmail > > * > https://git.claws-mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=tree;f=tools;h=7404d880a11ff8308deb69bbf828df7c38d4d187;hb=HEAD > > I kinda miss the old pre-Akonadi kmail. :( . > > > So do I, but Claws comes pretty close to what KMail used to be :-) -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
Hi Shlomo, On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:56 PM Shlomo Solomon wrote: > Thanks to Steve, Ori and Moish for your help. > > All your suggestions seem good, but: > 1 - I really did not want to make such major changes. If it ain't > broke > 2 - I'm just too tired or annoyed to have to waste so much of my and > your time. Am I getting to old for this nonsense?? > > SO - I surrendered to Google and set up an app password, even though > this forced me to first set up 2-factor authentication on my Google > account. > > BTW - after setting up the app password, I dis-abled 2-factor, but > Google in it's immense wisdom no longer allowed me to use the app > password, so I had to go back to 2-factor and re-generate the app > password. > > Still to early to tell how much 2-factor will interfere with my use of > other Google products such as Drive, Youtube, Maps. But at least I > have my mail back with no change to my old setup - except for the > changed password. > > > BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your article on > "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article years ago > because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring out how > to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move to Claws. > > Steve and you were not alone: * https://github.com/shlomif/convert-away-from-kmail * https://git.claws-mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=tree;f=tools;h=7404d880a11ff8308deb69bbf828df7c38d4d187;hb=HEAD I kinda miss the old pre-Akonadi kmail. :( . > On a side note - I'm on Kubuntu 18.04 LTS and in preparation to upgrade > to 20.04 LTS, I read that KMail and the entire KDE PIM are no longer the > default on the new Kubuntu. > > > > Again - thanks for all your help > > And I will save this thread, in case I ever decide to do a major > overhaul. > > > > > > On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:38:45 +0300 > Moish wrote: > > > same here. > > using dovcot to handle my local folders. > > works like a charm for several years. > > I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. > > > > Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. > > > > BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. > > > > On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > > > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > > >>>> not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > > > >> I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to > > >> Gmail - just to download new mail. > > > > > > E, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not > > > "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin > > > called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: > > > Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc > > > that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you > > > can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. > > > > > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > > > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > > > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > > > #portnumber 993 > > > limit 5000 > > > warnings 3200 > > > expunge 60 > > > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > > > fetchlimit 50 > > > ssl; > > > > > > > > > SteveT > > > > > > Steve Litt > > > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > > > > > ___ > > > Linux-il mailing list > > > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > > > > ___ > > Linux-il mailing list > > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > -- > Shlomo Solomon > http://the-solomons.net > Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -- Shlomi Fish https://www.shlomifish.org/ Buddha has the Chuck Norris nature. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
On 25/04/2020 22:22, shlomo solomon wrote: And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to my main account. So that's also weird. I think that's the key information. I would guess (because Google doesn't believe in giving you enough information to actually diagnose anything) that the problem is some security script triggering for your account. And the beauty of this guess is that even if I'm right, it's not clear what can be done about it. Shachar ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
Thanks to Steve, Ori and Moish for your help. All your suggestions seem good, but: 1 - I really did not want to make such major changes. If it ain't broke 2 - I'm just too tired or annoyed to have to waste so much of my and your time. Am I getting to old for this nonsense?? SO - I surrendered to Google and set up an app password, even though this forced me to first set up 2-factor authentication on my Google account. BTW - after setting up the app password, I dis-abled 2-factor, but Google in it's immense wisdom no longer allowed me to use the app password, so I had to go back to 2-factor and re-generate the app password. Still to early to tell how much 2-factor will interfere with my use of other Google products such as Drive, Youtube, Maps. But at least I have my mail back with no change to my old setup - except for the changed password. BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your article on "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article years ago because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring out how to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move to Claws. On a side note - I'm on Kubuntu 18.04 LTS and in preparation to upgrade to 20.04 LTS, I read that KMail and the entire KDE PIM are no longer the default on the new Kubuntu. Again - thanks for all your help And I will save this thread, in case I ever decide to do a major overhaul. On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:38:45 +0300 Moish wrote: > same here. > using dovcot to handle my local folders. > works like a charm for several years. > I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. > > Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. > > BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. > > On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > > >>>> It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > >>>> not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > >> I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to > >> Gmail - just to download new mail. > > > > E, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not > > "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin > > called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: > > Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc > > that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you > > can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. > > > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > > #portnumber 993 > > limit 5000 > > warnings 3200 > > expunge 60 > > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > > fetchlimit 50 > > ssl; > > > > > > SteveT > > > > Steve Litt > > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > > > ___ > > Linux-il mailing list > > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
same here. using dovcot to handle my local folders. works like a charm for several years. I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - just to download new mail. E, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' #portnumber 993 limit 5000 warnings 3200 expunge 60 mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" fetchlimit 50 ssl; SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
I see what you're doing, but don't see how this would solve my problem. Moving from pop3 to imap would not change the fact that Google is not allowing me to login. And most probably, Ori is correct in his opinion that the problem is the login to Google services - not to pop3. Or do you think that procmail would be allowed to login where claws is not allowed? Just to remind you of what I wrote in my original post - this has worked fine for many years and since nothing has changed on my end, I have no reason to think that pop3 is the problem. On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:35 AM Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > >>It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > > >>not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - > > just to download new mail. > > E, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") > than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". > But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The > following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my > gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct > from Claws. > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > #portnumber 993 > limit 5000 > warnings 3200 > expunge 60 > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > fetchlimit 50 > ssl; > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > >>It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > >>not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - > just to download new mail. E, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' #portnumber 993 limit 5000 warnings 3200 expunge 60 mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" fetchlimit 50 ssl; SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
Thanks for your very detailed answer. You make many valid points, but to summarize, I understand that you suggest I set up an app password and that may be what I'll have to do. BUT, as far as I've read, there IS a connection between the 2fa and app passwords settings. The Google support sites says: On the "Signing in to Google" panel, choose App Passwords. If you don’t see this option: - 2-Step Verification is not set up for your account. - 2-Step Verification is set up for security keys only. - Your account is through work, school, or other organization. - You’ve turned on Advanced Protection for your account. So setting this up may force me to use 2-factor to access other things, such as Google Drive. Just to be clear, I do not keep any sensitive data on Drive, so I really don't care if it's secure and adding 2 factor will be really inconvenient if it forces me to have my phone handy any time I want to access Drive on my desktop computer. BTW - concerning your mention of being out of the country, etc, that's certainly not the problem in these crazy Covid-19 days :-(. And I do not use tor or a VPN to access mail on Gmail or Claws. On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:50 AM Ori Berger wrote: > > On 25/04/2020 22:22, shlomo solomon wrote: > > > Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can help. > > > > 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my > > Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak > > for anything not provided or controlled by Google). > > No, that's not what allowing "Less secure app access" means. > > It used to be, that you had one password to an account (say, your gmail > account), and knowing that password would automatically give every > permission to whoever provided it. But as more and more things need to > interface these things today, it is now common to break the security > such that: > > a) There is still indeed one main account password (potentially aided by > a 2nd factor), however ... > > b) That account password is ONLY used with the main interface - in > Google's case, the "accounts.google.com" domain; and that once you log > in there > > c) You can delegate specific, limited access to different applications > through that interface. > > Now, as long as you're within the Google system (e.g. YouTube, Calendar, > Hangouts, etc.), this is all handled internally. But as soon as you exit > that system, e.g. by using Thunderbird or Claws, you have some friction > with the delegation step (c). > > One way supported by Google (and Facebook, and Apple, and others) is > OAuth2 - that app makes a request to Google for specific permissions; > You log in to accounts.google.com (after being redirected into it by > that app), and Google asks you to approve the specific permissions > requested by that app or website. If you do, that app/site gets a > "token" (for all practical purposes, a username+password for that > app/site uniquely generated for that approval process) that they can > use, but that is limited to exactly those permissions that the app > requested and that you approved. Thunderbird has a "Google" connector > these days which does exactly that. > > For older applications which do not support OAuth2, you can just go in > and generate an "App specific password" and specify those permissions > yourself; That's what you need to do for Claws. What you get is a > password that (assuming you asked for smtp/imap access) only works for > smtp/imap, and cannot be used to e.g. log into the Gmail web > applications and set up new forwards/filters. I do not know, but I > suspect, that they expect this password to be strictly used by one app - > e.g., I expect them to reject it if one day they see it being used from > Claws and the next day by Outlook; this information is sometimes > available directly in the protocol itself - e.g. claws and thunderbird > put a "User-Agent" mime header when they send a message - and is > sometimes inferred - e.g., if you have an X-MS-TNEF header, it's Outlook) > > The rationale behind this system is not to give Google more control > (it's not like you previously could add forwarding setup through > imap/pop3) - but rather to limit the probability that your main, > all-powerful, password would leak from systems like Thunderbird or Claws > or PEBKAC which Google cannot directly secure. (There is, of course, a > very busniessy reason here as well - sites like LinkedIn and Facebook > used to ask you for your mail username/password, "so we could make it > easier for you to see who of your contacts is in our system and send > them invites", which is a bad idea for everyone involved except &g
Re: Gmail and Claws
ou) context, that is a likely cause. Gmail accounts are highly sought by spammers as they have virtually no deliverability problems, and thus creating or stealing Google accounts is continuously attempted on a mass scale; Google spends a lot of effort fighting against this, and they have more false hacking positives than ideal, especially for people outside the Win+Chrome norm such as yourself. The only thing I HAVE NOT tried (because I'm afraid it will make things worse rather than better) is to set up two-factor authentication and use an app password - I also have no idea how this works (or doesn't work) in Claws mail. Last I used it, the 2fa and app passwords were independent settings; You should be able to disable "less secure app access" and set up application specific passwords without setting up 2fa. Once it works, it's actually better - generate an app password for e.g. your phone, and one for your laptop, and if one of them is lost you can revoke only that one -- while at the same time, be sure that even if you didn't revoke it in time, and a bad actor was able to retrieve the password from your mail program before you realized the device was lost -- they still could not use that app password to change your main password and lock you out from your account, or other bad things - only read/send mail (which is bad enough, granted, but not nearly as bad). And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to my main account. So that's also weird. No specific knowledge, but my inference is that Google has a "probable use profile" for every account, which includes a list of devices, browser versions, geographical locations, isps, times of day, distribution of emails replied per day, distribution of emails originated per day, average number of new contacts/addresses per day, etc -- that's useful both for targeted advertising and to figure out of the account has been hacked. For whatever reason, if my model is right then, from your description, this specific account seems to occasionally step outside of its "probable use profile" - either because of things *you* do (such as VPN, Tor, travel, etc) or because it's on the model's boundary all the time but *Google* tweaks some parameters (as they do often) and sometimes you end up on the improbable side. Additionally, you wrote you're forwarding *out* of Google and into your own domain - from what I gather, this should be fine. However, if you also have a catchall (or otherwise many accounts) that forward *into* a google account, I suspect based on my previous research that this would push you toward the hacked/spammer/improbable category. And last but not least - do not assume that no one is trying to hack into your account. It's possible that Google's hacking detection was actually triggered by a hacking attempt you are not aware of, and that they ask you to do a web login because they have much better control and authentication on that front. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Gmail and Claws
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:22:38 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can > help. > > Some background: > 1 - my gmail address is shlomo.solo...@gmail.com > 2 - all my mail is forwarded to my domain shl...@the-solomons.net > 3 - For MANY years, I've used Claws mail (and before that KMail) as my > client because I HATE webmail in general and Gmail specifically. > 4 - Claws accesses my mail over POP3 and SMTP > 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my > Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak > for anything not provided or controlled by Google). > 6 - This setup has worked for at least 20 years and I've made no > recent changes so there's no OBVIOUS reason for it not to work now. > > BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws > access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes > for hours or even a day or more. > > The Claws log shows: > > * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... > [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 > s20mb165349719wra > [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solo...@gmail.com > [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS > [21:49:25] POP> PASS > [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 > *** error occurred on authentication > *** Authentication failed. Hmmm, why require a **WEB** login? Why not just a POP login? [snip] > And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. It's intermittent. This makes things even more difficult. > > And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same > setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to > my main account. So that's also weird. I'd start by exploiting the differences between this one and the Gmail accounts that never display this symptom. Do you access it differently? Is the account set up differently on the Google side? Just keep trying to exploit the differences. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. I don't know how you're asking Gmail for your email, but if your email client is doing the asking, this could be a problem in your email client or its setup. Every 3 minutes I have fetchmail grab my Gmail mail (along with my Troubleshooters.Com mail and Earthlink and who knows what else). Every once in a while the fetchmail log shows a failure, but not enough to be a problem. You might try having fetchmail do the fetching, send it straight to procmail to sort into folders for your email client (or if you do it like I do, to your local Dovecot server.) All email clients suck. I use Claws-Mail. Claws sucks less than most, but it still sucks. I try to move as much computation as possible out of the email client. Dovecot works perfectly, month after month, year after year. Via IMAP, I use Claws Mail as a window into my Dovecot folders. SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Gmail and Claws
Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can help. Some background: 1 - my gmail address is shlomo.solo...@gmail.com 2 - all my mail is forwarded to my domain shl...@the-solomons.net 3 - For MANY years, I've used Claws mail (and before that KMail) as my client because I HATE webmail in general and Gmail specifically. 4 - Claws accesses my mail over POP3 and SMTP 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak for anything not provided or controlled by Google). 6 - This setup has worked for at least 20 years and I've made no recent changes so there's no OBVIOUS reason for it not to work now. BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes for hours or even a day or more. The Claws log shows: * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 s20mb165349719wra [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solo...@gmail.com [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS [21:49:25] POP> PASS [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 *** error occurred on authentication *** Authentication failed. I've tried all the solutions mentioned on https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 and many more that I've found in various posts and sites, but nothing seems to work. Among other things, I've tried changing my password, turning POP access off and then back on, turning "less secure" off then back on, and more. The only thing I HAVE NOT tried (because I'm afraid it will make things worse rather than better) is to set up two-factor authentication and use an app password - I also have no idea how this works (or doesn't work) in Claws mail. And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to my main account. So that's also weird. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
