Re: ISP Suggestion
2009/10/26 Gilad Ben-Yossef : > Just an educated guess, but I believe Netvision might have an Akamai node > hosted there while 012 may not. Since Youtube uses Akamai as a CDN, the > connection via Netvision only foes through the local loop, while in other > ISPs it does the long haul. > > Again, just guessing, but easy to find out - go to an you tube video on > Netvision and 012, get the URL and resolve it through the respective > companies connections (so that GeoIP will give you the right Akamai node) > and trace route to that node from each ISP. > > The netvision trip should be very short to their data center while the 012 > is probably long haul aboard or goes through the IIX (less likely). > > Again, just guessing. > Gilad > Actually as an 012 customer (and some other ISPs as well...) - I can +1 on the problem watching streams from YouTube via 012. And I'm connected over a fiber as a business user. I noted that when it happened - it didn't happen on every stream - rather than on certain ones. I noticed the 012 IP ranges when it worked real good (so I guess they have CDN servers) and unfamiliar IPs when it doesn't. Sometimes it gets completely stuck, sometimes it's just real slow but letting it buffer-up does the trick. It happened more on less-popular movies (i.e. Israel originated with not many views. Maybe YouTube pass only popular stuff to their CDN? I don't know...) 012 support was not-helpful when I approached them regarding the subject. I can note, however, that lately I didn't encounter the phenomena at all. On the other hand, lately my traceroutes look different (012 switched to a different backbone in Europe?), which might explain why it got better... It might also have been MTU/Window Scaling issues [I use Linux with default paramters...] - which could explain the initial burst and then the connection getting stuck... -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
Imri Zvik wrote: On Monday 26 October 2009 14:24:11 geoffrey mendelson wrote: Except for early morning, I can no longer watch YouTube videos. They run for a few seconds, stop for a while and continue, then they stop for a while and continue. If I switch to Netvision, they play smoothly. Wierd... Could you please provide a sniff (PCAP format) of the problem (off-list, of course)? It would be very helpful. Just an educated guess, but I believe Netvision might have an Akamai node hosted there while 012 may not. Since Youtube uses Akamai as a CDN, the connection via Netvision only foes through the local loop, while in other ISPs it does the long haul. Again, just guessing, but easy to find out - go to an you tube video on Netvision and 012, get the URL and resolve it through the respective companies connections (so that GeoIP will give you the right Akamai node) and trace route to that node from each ISP. The netvision trip should be very short to their data center while the 012 is probably long haul aboard or goes through the IIX (less likely). Again, just guessing. Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef Chief Coffee Drinker & CTO Codefidence Ltd. Web: http://codefidence.com Cell: +972-52-8260388 Skype: gilad_codefidence Tel: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201 Fax: +972-8-9316884 Email: gi...@codefidence.com Check out our Open Source technology and training blog - http://tuxology.net "The biggest risk you can take it is to take no risk." -- Mark Zuckerberg and probably others ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Monday 26 October 2009 14:24:11 geoffrey mendelson wrote: > Except for early morning, I can no longer watch YouTube videos. They > run for a few seconds, stop for a while and continue, then they stop > for a while and continue. If I switch to Netvision, they play smoothly. Wierd... Could you please provide a sniff (PCAP format) of the problem (off-list, of course)? It would be very helpful. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Boaz Rymland wrote: True regarding connection (and security is better with router, AFAIK), but not so regarding port 25 outbound comm. Some ISPs block it, as mentioned earlier in this thread. But, I think that a simple phone call to the ISP's tech service should resolve that (it resolved it for me, in the past, and as far as I can tell this is a standard procedure that is probably available with all ISPs). Outbound port 25 is a problem with all ISPs. 587 may be a better choice, but it requires some work on your part. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:45:25 +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote: > On Oct 26, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Justin wrote: > >> I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq >> Ben Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. >> >> Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that >> doesn't block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency >> connections? > > > Netvision fits that. 012 does not. > > BTW, with a router, all ISP's are Linux friendly. True regarding connection (and security is better with router, AFAIK), but not so regarding port 25 outbound comm. Some ISPs block it, as mentioned earlier in this thread. But, I think that a simple phone call to the ISP's tech service should resolve that (it resolved it for me, in the past, and as far as I can tell this is a standard procedure that is probably available with all ISPs). Boaz. > > Geoff. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Imri Zvik wrote: On Monday 26 October 2009 14:01:52 geoffrey mendelson wrote: Actually I want traffic shaping. I want my VoIP to work. I want my email. I'd like YouTube to work too, but 012 has not quite caught on to that. Could you please elaborate? I'm not aware of any issues with YouTube, and I would gladly make sure that such issues would be inspected in-depth. Except for early morning, I can no longer watch YouTube videos. They run for a few seconds, stop for a while and continue, then they stop for a while and continue. If I switch to Netvision, they play smoothly. Thanks, Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Monday 26 October 2009 14:01:52 geoffrey mendelson wrote: > Actually I want traffic shaping. I want my VoIP to work. I want my > email. I'd like YouTube to work too, but 012 has not quite caught on > to that. Could you please elaborate? I'm not aware of any issues with YouTube, and I would gladly make sure that such issues would be inspected in-depth. > Everything else can wait, as long as it goes through such as > BitTorrent, http downloads of big files, etc, something else 012 has > not quite figured out. Same here. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Oct 26, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: I hardly believe you'll find **ANY** ISP here in Israel which doesn't do traffic shaping due to 2 simple reasons: 1. Bandwidth From/To Israel costs a fortune (thanks goes to Med-1), add it with .. 2. Israel is considered a big big big piracy heaven, which means whatever bandwidth ISP throws to the users, they'll consume *ALL* of it, so they all use traffic shaping tricks. Actually I want traffic shaping. I want my VoIP to work. I want my email. I'd like YouTube to work too, but 012 has not quite caught on to that. Everything else can wait, as long as it goes through such as BitTorrent, http downloads of big files, etc, something else 012 has not quite figured out. I think many ISP's do block some ports like 25 (SMTP) to prevent users from running spam bots from the end-user machine's. Last spring I had a problem with Netvision randomly blocking every email port (smtp, pop and secure versions of them) to servers outside their network except for gmail and a few other well known hosts. I compenstated two ways. The first was to move all of my mailing list emails to gmail, lowering the traffic on my personal account. As an aside, it allowed me to replace mutt with Apple's mail.app, which has rules to get rid of emails from people I don't want them from, preserving my sanity. :-) The second was to connect to my personal email provider with ssh and then tunnel to his mail servers. The third was to call and complain. When they called me back and told me that they did not block any email ports, I left the ssh tunnel in place, and although it is over complicated and annoying, it has worked 99% of the time. The first few times I tried to go back to regular email it did not work, but that may have been fixed by now. Note that I have two internet connections here netvision and 012. I'm currently using 012 for the ssh tunnel (it's one of the few things that works well with them), but occasionaly I've had to go back to netvision. I got the second connection to have redundancy, one is a cable modem with netvision and the other is an aDSL line with 012. One of the problems with the ssh tunnel is that the system at the other end uses TCP wrappers and won't allow connections from systems with completely broken reverse DNS servers. Ocasionally both 012 and netvision has had them, but moving to the other ISP fixed it. I assume that rebooting the router to get a fresh IP in another netblock would have also done it. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
On Oct 26, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Justin wrote: I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq Ben Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that doesn't block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency connections? Netvision fits that. 012 does not. BTW, with a router, all ISP's are Linux friendly. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
I hardly believe you'll find **ANY** ISP here in Israel which doesn't do traffic shaping due to 2 simple reasons: 1. Bandwidth From/To Israel costs a fortune (thanks goes to Med-1), add it with .. 2. Israel is considered a big big big piracy heaven, which means whatever bandwidth ISP throws to the users, they'll consume *ALL* of it, so they all use traffic shaping tricks. I think many ISP's do block some ports like 25 (SMTP) to prevent users from running spam bots from the end-user machine's. Hetz On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Justin wrote: > fine. > >- low latency in general >- reasonably good VOIP performance >- at least 2.5MB asymmetric >- no QoS traffic shaping >- absolutely no port blocking > > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: > >> Not enough info.. >> >> Low latency connection to where? BBL maybe sucks in service, but they have >> the biggest pipe in IIX for example (10 Gb) (I'm not trying to recommend >> them, I'm not their customer).. >> >> Some do not block ports, but do use QoS to shove the priority of P2P >> (torrent, emule) way down... >> >> Hetz >> >> 2009/10/26 Justin >> >>> I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq Ben >>> Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. >>> >>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that doesn't >>> block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency connections? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto >>> the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir >>> Francis Drake >>> >>> ___ >>> Linux-il mailing list >>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il >>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. >> my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org >> > > > > -- > There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the > end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis > Drake > -- Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
fine. - low latency in general - reasonably good VOIP performance - at least 2.5MB asymmetric - no QoS traffic shaping - absolutely no port blocking On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote: > Not enough info.. > > Low latency connection to where? BBL maybe sucks in service, but they have > the biggest pipe in IIX for example (10 Gb) (I'm not trying to recommend > them, I'm not their customer).. > > Some do not block ports, but do use QoS to shove the priority of P2P > (torrent, emule) way down... > > Hetz > > 2009/10/26 Justin > >> I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq Ben >> Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. >> >> Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that doesn't >> block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency connections? >> >> >> -- >> There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the >> end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis >> Drake >> >> ___ >> Linux-il mailing list >> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il >> >> > > > -- > Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. > my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org > -- There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis Drake ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ISP Suggestion
Not enough info.. Low latency connection to where? BBL maybe sucks in service, but they have the biggest pipe in IIX for example (10 Gb) (I'm not trying to recommend them, I'm not their customer).. Some do not block ports, but do use QoS to shove the priority of P2P (torrent, emule) way down... Hetz 2009/10/26 Justin > I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq Ben > Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that doesn't > block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency connections? > > > -- > There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the > end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis > Drake > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > -- Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
ISP Suggestion
I've been with Interal until now. But they are merging with Bezeq Ben Liumi. I hate BBL, and more than that their quality sucks. Does anyone have a recommendation for a Linux friendly ISP, that doesn't block ports and can provide reasonable, low latency connections? -- There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis Drake ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
