Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
> Can you tell me what makes him (or anyone else) an addicted Microsofti ?
> Is it fear of the unknown ?
> Is it that Microsoft gave them some knowledge that makes them powerful ?
>
> Gabor
1) Last week I finishedworking late, and saw that the security guy had a laptop with
him.
2 sentences later I found out he TRIED to install RH 7.? on it and it stopped during
the
install and jammed his pc. Immediately I told him not to worry, and the next day I
gave
him 3 cd's of MDK 9.1 (couldn't find the RH9 I got from linux.israel.net conference).
He's a student programmer
2) My boss at the law office has one computer with win95 on it. The employer asked me
why she doesn't have internet, and I found out that she had no IE installed (is it
possible?). I grabbed the opportunity and installed Opera 7.2beta (hold the flames,
it's
lighter than firebird, and that's an old machine). She told my boss about it, and the
next
day he asked me if I could install these lightweight browsers that don't take too much
resources, and in the same time it would be best if I unistall IE from them. Told him
that
IE is part of the OS, and that current freeware/free browsers are superior, but have
one
problem: they can't navigate in the Israeli court site (www.court.gov.il).
No law firm can work without it.
Epilogue:
1) I don't know what about the programmer, he was probably re-assigned, but at least I
got to point him to whatsup for help if he needed it.
2) As for my boss, I'll be on the lookout for changes in browsers / the site itself.
BTW, I
contacted Opera about it, and they told me what the problem was in the site. Sent it
to
the site admins. Got no response.
This is the message I sent:
-- this mail should be addressed to the person in-charge of building/ maintaining the
site
--
Your site had helped me a lot, since it has been for some time now, that i'm working
as
an
intern in a law firm. The information is precisely what i need in 87% of the cases.
This
saves a
lot of money for my boss, due to less time spent in calling the information center or
even going
to court.
There is one problem, though. Last week i started working in office with the browser i
work at
home: Opera browser. It's fast, it's small, it's easy to use and i like it. But no
matter what
i tried
to do, it couldn't open a page with the links in court.gov.il homepage. In this time
of
despair, i
turned to the Opera development team, which gave me the following response (i've
shortened
it for you):
--
The "window.navigate" function is an incompatible extension to JavaScript -
it is not supported by any other browser than IE and is therefore best
avoided. "location" assignments can be used instead, e.g.
window.navigate('home.html') // IE only
can be replaced with
window.location='home.html' // All known JavaScript-supporting browsers
--
This is a weird thing to me, since court.gov.il is a government site, that's supposed
to
serve
the entire population, which means that from the beginning there shouldn't have been
any IE
specific tags. This seems to be like a simple Find&Replace task, that would enable the
entire
population to use this convenient site.
If you want more details, you can contact Opera Software at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
And again, you've managed to make a great site, why not let everybody use it?
With Appreciation,
Dotan Mazor
--
Dotan Mazor
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: 064 - 432 950
http://dotan.run.to
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Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 14 September 2003 18:27, Diego Iastrubni wrote: > Funny, at the end of the article it becomes extramsly unreadable (mixed > sentences all over the place). Anyone else expereincing it? > (knoqui 3.1.3) > Same here (konq from cvs). Mozilla shows it OK. - -- Meir Kriheli MKsoft systems http://www.mksoft.co.il -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Zfl4RkS5DWK1mZkRAg+1AKCrH0I1Rn2dAjhj7IAjFC9kOrfZTwCfQLLz 5GhSWzftY5aRff3oClLmzlY= =n4+g -END PGP SIGNATURE- To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
Gabor Szabo wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
Gadi Gilon is an addicted Microsofti
Can you tell me what makes him (or anyone else) an addicted Microsofti ?
Is it fear of the unknown ?
That's the most common cause. I would even say further - their entire
concept of "what is a computer" was formed around what MS supplies. MS
supplies "the standard". Anything else can, at best, equal it.
As a result, when they try to evaluate an alternative product, whatever
qualities it has as a bonus don't count ("your system doesn't need a
reboot once a week? So what? Rebooting once a week is standard"), but
whatever it doesn't have that MS has becomes a disadventage ("What do
you mean there is no wizard for shutting down the machine? How can that
be?").
The moment you put on these glasses, everything not MS cannot be good.
These people can see that one MS platform is better than another, but
usually this view of the world prevents them from accepting degradation
of quality over successive versions. They think MS means progress (you
can see them in reply posts for FOSS friendly articles saying such
things as "You are just jealous of Bill Gates because he is rich. Where
would the world of computers be today without Microsoft?"), and therefor
find it hard to believe that a newer version CANNOT be better than an
older one.
The funny thing is, some of these people are actually FOSS supporters,
and even active advocators. You can call them "addicted MSies in rehab".
They realize that this is something different, with a lot of potential.
You will find that they lack the volcabulary to express, or even
evaluate, the places where, for example, Linux is better than Windows.
You can hear them say sentances such as "The latest Windows XP is indeed
much better than previous versions. So it Office XP. I do have some
trouble running the two together. Strange, don't you think? You'd think
that greater integration would produce a better product."
While this is a problem whenever evaluating a competing product, FOSS
requires commercial entities to do some latteral thinking. The change in
terminology is something that is very scary to some people. For example,
the fact that you can get support that is, on average, much better than
commercial support is not something that would appeal to most IT
managers of proprietary products. They see the lack of guarentee as a
show stopper. Commercial support is a great gap filler here (both from
big companies, such as IBM, Oracle and CA, and from tiny ones, such as
myself), but it makes the support more expensive, giving rise to
allegations that "FOSS software is more expensive due to support costs".
Is it that Microsoft gave them some knowledge that makes them powerful ?
Specifically, in the case of Clalit, they are a "casestudy customer" of
Microsoft
(http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=13951).
Such customers tend to get a lot of specific development and tailored,
free, support by the developers themselves. As such, it is not so
suprising that Gadi Gilon likes his MS solutions so much.
It is sad that, with such close help from MS, they were still knocked
offline by a virus. This is not due to neglect. I have heard Gadi talk
about their systems. At the time, it was to boast how they were not
affected by Slammer
(http://www.tigershows.co.il/html/event_desc.asp?Event_ID=142)
Gabor
Shachar
--
Shachar Shemesh
Open Source integration consultant
Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/
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Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
On Monday 15 September 2003 02:22 pm, Gabor Szabo wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > Gadi Gilon is an addicted Microsofti > > Can you tell me what makes him (or anyone else) an addicted Microsofti ? > Is it fear of the unknown ? > Is it that Microsoft gave them some knowledge that makes them powerful ? I think it is not knowing the alternatives and being blinded by MicroSoft about the alternatives. Perhaps Hamkor should set up meetings with such a people to educate them about the alternatives, I am willing to help in such meetings. -- Ori Idan = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > Gadi Gilon is an addicted Microsofti Can you tell me what makes him (or anyone else) an addicted Microsofti ? Is it fear of the unknown ? Is it that Microsoft gave them some knowledge that makes them powerful ? Gabor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: I agree with Shachar, except for one thing: I think a good reporter would have mentioned when quoting the response of General Health Services IT manager response that mentions the so called security problems of Linux that the General Health Services computer network has been brought down to a halt just recently by a computer virus that only effects MS software. I still think it's damn funny that THIS is the example MS chose to bring as a response. Gadi Gilon is an addicted Microsoftie. He is, as far as I know, the only IT manager in Israel who will not add "but" when speaking about how good MS has been to their organization. I have heard him talk and saw interviews with him in the past, and it seems to me that he has never, in his life, heard about Open Source and Linux from anyone other than MS. Gilad -- Shachar Shemesh Open Source integration consultant Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
On Monday 15 September 2003 12:24, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > I'm sorry, I believe that you are all barking up the wrong tree. > > I have personally heared most of the people quoted in this article, and > they were not misquoted. This is how they feel! While the reporter no > doubt added some of his own bias, this is no more than any other article > in the press. I agree with Shachar, except for one thing: I think a good reporter would have mentioned when quoting the response of General Health Services IT manager response that mentions the so called security problems of Linux that the General Health Services computer network has been brought down to a halt just recently by a computer virus that only effects MS software. I agree though that this is nit picking and not something to go shouting about. I still think it's damn funny that THIS is the example MS chose to bring as a response. Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Codefidence. A name you can trust (tm) http://www.codefidence.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
I tend to agree with Shachar, Frontal attacks may only create antagonism, (after all, you never bring peace with war). Talking to the reporter is something that should be done, maybe by a representative of Hamkor so she will know for future articles that Hamakor exists. We should continue in everyway we can to educate people about Open Source solutions. I have just this morning talked to a person about Open Office and Linux he immediatly proceeded to download Open Office on his windows computer and said that he would be happy to try Linux at home and later on install it in his office. I found many people that are very much interested trying it. I also have a friend who manages a non profit organization in Jerusalem that wanted to install Linux in all her network of about 15 computers. BTW is there someone who can volunteer to help her? She lives in Mevasert and works in Jerusalem. -- Ori Idan = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
Boaz Rymland wrote: All I can say is even if I disagree with some of the article claims too (which I do) - to make something productive of this one need to "file" those remarks first and foremost to the Haaretz reporter. Aside of steam-releasing activity here there's not much point in telling in Linux-IL how that article was baised, if this critisizm stays *only* here. This advice is not to "educate" you but rather based on positive experience I personally had with similar case with Captain Internet lately. This experience has not finished yet but have formed clean channels of communication to the captain through which I or we can convey our message. My suggestion is that if it's important to you to have enough time for it, I would have advised writing something that will contradict their' conclusions yet written in a language that will not arrise their "automatic defenses" against religious linux freaks like us. Boaz. I'm sorry, I believe that you are all barking up the wrong tree. I have personally heared most of the people quoted in this article, and they were not misquoted. This is how they feel! While the reporter no doubt added some of his own bias, this is no more than any other article in the press. So, addressing the reporter will do us no good whatsover. What we need to do is twofold: A. Try and get to the people quoted, and find out why that's what they think. B. Try to create awareness in the reporter's mind that when doing a piece about open source, Hamakor should be contacted as well. In this particular case, I think that frontal attack will be the wrong thing to do. Doing a frontal attack will only lead to antagonism. After all, the reporter will say to himself, I was only quoting other people. Why are they so upset at me? Then again, let's face it. A - this article will make Arie Scope much more restless than us. It is, over all, Linux positive (25% server share worldwide, 35% in Israel, etc.) B - Let's face it. Wine is NOT ready yet. Not 100% there (and I should know). Neither are some of the other technologies. If you want to do something about it, do, don't talk. Ideas as to how to position Hamakor so that reporters will contact us for opinions when preparing such articles would be welcome. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Open Source integration consultant Home page & resume - http://www.shemesh.biz/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
All I can say is even if I disagree with some of the article claims too (which I do) - to make something productive of this one need to "file" those remarks first and foremost to the Haaretz reporter. Aside of steam-releasing activity here there's not much point in telling in Linux-IL how that article was baised, if this critisizm stays *only* here. This advice is not to "educate" you but rather based on positive experience I personally had with similar case with Captain Internet lately. This experience has not finished yet but have formed clean channels of communication to the captain through which I or we can convey our message. My suggestion is that if it's important to you to have enough time for it, I would have advised writing something that will contradict their' conclusions yet written in a language that will not arrise their "automatic defenses" against religious linux freaks like us. Boaz. Ely Levy wrote: I always dislike haaretz artical about opensource, they always sound like their computer guy is getting payed very well by MS, and even if there is some small pro opensource part it's only for the bigger anti opensource part to sound better this artical is no diffrent and it's mostly BS, from the high security cost compare to windows(yea right after the last few weeks I expected a bit more modasty) to the crap about needing to rewrite all the programs for linux how how horribly expensive it would be (never heard of wine?of portable code writing?of things like mozilla/openoffice which gain ground on windows computers and works as well on linux one?), and that quote about from the kalalit guy which just got a server from ms (which fell misrably during like virus and made their system almost unsuable for 3 freaking days!! my doctor couldn't ever get my test results!! so much for security!). persoanly I feel safer if my health would be depended on linux servers... Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Boaz Rymland wrote: On topic article from Haaretz that discusses the state of OSS adoption in Israel (mainly in commercial organizations) No registration requried: http://computers.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=item&path=4&id=440127 Boaz. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
I always dislike haaretz artical about opensource, they always sound like their computer guy is getting payed very well by MS, and even if there is some small pro opensource part it's only for the bigger anti opensource part to sound better this artical is no diffrent and it's mostly BS, from the high security cost compare to windows(yea right after the last few weeks I expected a bit more modasty) to the crap about needing to rewrite all the programs for linux how how horribly expensive it would be (never heard of wine?of portable code writing?of things like mozilla/openoffice which gain ground on windows computers and works as well on linux one?), and that quote about from the kalalit guy which just got a server from ms (which fell misrably during like virus and made their system almost unsuable for 3 freaking days!! my doctor couldn't ever get my test results!! so much for security!). persoanly I feel safer if my health would be depended on linux servers... Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Boaz Rymland wrote: > On topic article from Haaretz that discusses the state of OSS adoption > in Israel (mainly in commercial organizations) > > No registration requried: > > http://computers.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=item&path=4&id=440127 > > Boaz. > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
Funny, at the end of the article it becomes extramsly unreadable (mixed sentences all over the place). Anyone else expereincing it? (knoqui 3.1.3) ביום ראשון, 14 בספטמבר 2003, 20:54, נכתב על ידי Boaz Rymland: > On topic article from Haaretz that discusses the state of OSS adoption > in Israel (mainly in commercial organizations) > > No registration requried: > > http://computers.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=item&path=4&id=440127 > > Boaz. > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - diego Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Latest article on Linux + Open Source in local media
On topic article from Haaretz that discusses the state of OSS adoption in Israel (mainly in commercial organizations) No registration requried: http://computers.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=item&path=4&id=440127 Boaz. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
