Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On 08/04/2006, at 20:21, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Fibi's (First international) website works perfectly for me, both with Firefox and with Safari (on Mac). --- Shoshannah Forbes http://www.xslf.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Monday 10 April 2006 23:32, Matan Ziv-Av wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Amos Shapira wrote: Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. Why spend the money to run IE? wine does that just fine. Because the code is free - your time isn't (*) - Aviram (*) http://www.codefidence.com/ I'm not affiliated with Codefidence - I just think the tag line is awesome. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Aviram Jenik wrote: Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. Why spend the money to run IE? wine does that just fine. Because the code is free - your time isn't (*) I find it extremely hard to believe that CrossOver Office does anything easier than winetools. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On 4/11/06, Matan Ziv-Av [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Aviram Jenik wrote: Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. Why spend the money to run IE? wine does that just fine. Because the code is free - your time isn't (*) I find it extremely hard to believe that CrossOver Office does anything easier than winetools. Start believing, then. CrossOver Ofice 4 Just Works(TM) for me with IE 6 since end of 2004 while trying to install latest Wine versions to test MSN massenger, Skype or Google Earth broke everything down, apparently including CXoffice. Now I'm stuck with a non-working CXoffice and a non-working Wine and no time to fix this. I hope when I get back home next week I'll be able to just remove everything, re-install CXoffice and get my hated IE6 back. Besides, again, I see my payment for CXoffice license as a partial donation which supports the Wine project. (Hopefully the fact that I use Debian will help me in the cleanup) --Amos Everybody should believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Amos Shapira wrote: On 4/11/06, Matan Ziv-Av [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Aviram Jenik wrote: Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. Why spend the money to run IE? wine does that just fine. Because the code is free - your time isn't (*) I find it extremely hard to believe that CrossOver Office does anything easier than winetools. Start believing, then. CrossOver Ofice 4 Just Works(TM) for me with IE 6 since end of 2004 while trying to install latest Wine versions to test MSN massenger, Skype or Google Earth broke everything down, apparently including CXoffice. Now I'm stuck with a non-working CXoffice and a non-working Wine and no time to fix this. I hope when I get back home next week I'll be able to just remove everything, re-install CXoffice and get my hated IE6 back. Besides, again, I see my payment for CXoffice license as a partial donation which supports the Wine project. I started believing, and then stopped. Installing wine and winetools on Fedora core is simple with apt, yum or synaptic. Installing internet explorer is then just five button clicks on winetools GUI. How much simpler can CXOffice be? -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
MZ Installing wine and winetools on Fedora core is simple with apt, yum MZ or synaptic. Installing internet explorer is then just five button MZ clicks on winetools GUI. I tried today to install IE on Wine on FC4. For starters, there are about 5 ways to install it. I tried winetools way, and it didn't work. I tried various hacky ways which were described on the sites posted recently - it didn't work either. I tried ies4linux way - it worked, but IE didn't show hebrew in normal way (and since most of the sites that I need and are IE-only are Israeli sites this makes it close to useless for me) - it shows in reverse and in some weird fonts. I tried all ways of installing fonts I could find - copied them in .wine/c/windows/fonts, in /usr/share/wine/fonts and where not - nothing changed, hebrew broken. Anybody knows how to fix it? I tried looking up but none of the advices I found - like copying fonts, etc. - helped much. Anybody knows a fix for it? MZ How much simpler can CXOffice be? I didn't use it, but I tried installing wine, so I can say there's definitely some space for improvement. You know, like I install it and it works - some apps do that :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: I find it extremely hard to believe that CrossOver Office does anything easier than winetools. It's a difficult statement. When winetools works, it works great. If you got winetools to install IE for you, don't expect CXOffice to be any better. The problem is that it doesn't always work. It tends to recommend certain versions of Wine, and those are not always easy to get (unless you're prepared to pull them from CVS). On the other hand, CXOffice is compiled without BiDi support. This is due, in large part, to the fact that crucial cleanup work on the Wine Bidi was not done, which resulted in Bidi carrying dependencies that Codeweavers simply would not pay for their product. Many distribution wine packages do carry Bidi enabled wine, and if you compile your own you can, naturally, also make sure Bidi is compiled. In any case, this doesn't matter as much for Hebrew in IE, as IE does most of it's own Bidi anyways. As for payment for CXOffice: First, a bit of full disclosure. Lingnu, my company, is the Israeli distributer of the software. I don't think it changes the validity of what I say much, because, unless you're getting your VAT back, it will be cheaper to buy CXOffice from the codeweavers web site (and, yes, we do give a 10% discount to hamakor members). As for the actual facts. While CXOffice does contain fixes not available inside Wine itself (typically because they are ugly hacks and Alexandre won't have them in the Wine tree), it is my experience that this is not the reason that CXOffice works where Wine sometimes fails. This has more to do with picking the right version. What I suggest is this. Allocate the amount of money you want to spend on this issue. Try winetools first. If it works for you, do donate the equivalent amount by going to http://winehq.org and clicking the donate button. If winetools doesn't do the job for you, either buy CXOffice (from Lingnu or directly from the codeweavers site), or hack it until it does. I hope I've helped. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. Have you backed up today's work? http://www.lingnu.com/backup.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On 4/9/06, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and she listened in on the conversation. What they told me basically amounted to f*ck you, we don't care about you, similar to the response you got. That's why I hang most of my hopes for standards support on mobile device users, as Dov reported from the bank. Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. And as I say every time such a question is raised - FIBI (First International, Ben-Leumi) works beautifully with Firefox for years now and responded quite quickly when I suggested small improvements to their site. --Amos To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sunday 09 April 2006 15:11, Gilboa Davara wrote: Tried it last week and now and it doesn't work. I just tried it again now, and it works. - Aviram = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 19:03 +0300, Aviram Jenik wrote: On Sunday 09 April 2006 15:11, Gilboa Davara wrote: Tried it last week and now and it doesn't work. I just tried it again now, and it works. - Aviram Yep. It does. Thanks for head's up. Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Amos Shapira wrote: On 4/9/06, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dov - it's worth investing the 40$ or so in CrossOver Office (you can buy from Shachar if you want a local distributor) - I use it to access Bank Hamizrahi and the money funds development on Wine. Why spend the money to run IE? wine does that just fine. -- Matan Ziv-Av. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 20:21 +0300, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Hello, Since there has been some talk on this list about various not working with Linux, I thought I would report on a phone conversation that I had last night with the technical support of the Bank Leumi web site. I had written in in their customer feedback form and told complained that the site is not standard complient, does not work with Firefox, and that their use of JavaScript probably made it non-accessible. They actually called me up yesterday, and the guy I spoke to acknowledged that that is the case, that they are aware of it, and that they have no immediate plans of mending it. They are only doing small changes and improvements to the web site code. He said that he RD guys would be happy to rewrite the site as the current site is not accessible to Macintosh users nor handheld computers either. But there is no support for funding any for any such changes in Bank Leumi. My mentioning of Linux, he said was the second complaint about that Linux, he had ever heard... Regarding accessibility, he said that that would be a concern for them *only* when that was required by legislation. Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Regards, Dov Actually the story is even worse. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Leumi had a second, older side, that worked just fine no-IE browsers. https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:29, Gilboa Davara wrote: Actually the story is even worse. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Leumi had a second, older side, that worked just fine no-IE browsers. https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. Works for me. It indeed stopped working about 3 months ago (it was intentionally disabled) but it was returned a few days after that. Gilboa - Aviram = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 14:27 +0300, Aviram Jenik wrote: On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:29, Gilboa Davara wrote: Actually the story is even worse. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Leumi had a second, older side, that worked just fine no-IE browsers. https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. Works for me. It indeed stopped working about 3 months ago (it was intentionally disabled) but it was returned a few days after that. Gilboa Weird. Tried it last week and now and it doesn't work. When did you last test it? Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sunday 09 April 2006 15:11, Gilboa Davara wrote: https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. Works for me. Weird. Tried it last week and now and it doesn't work. When did you last test it? Last night, but I use it almost every day. It seems to be down now - maybe someone took offense at your email and shut it down :-P Gilboa - Aviram = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:29, Gilboa Davara wrote: On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 20:21 +0300, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Hello, Since there has been some talk on this list about various not working with Linux, I thought I would report on a phone conversation that I had last night with the technical support of the Bank Leumi web site. I had written in in their customer feedback form and told complained that the site is not standard complient, does not work with Firefox, and that their use of JavaScript probably made it non-accessible. They actually called me up yesterday, and the guy I spoke to acknowledged that that is the case, that they are aware of it, and that they have no immediate plans of mending it. They are only doing small changes and improvements to the web site code. He said that he RD guys would be happy to rewrite the site as the current site is not accessible to Macintosh users nor handheld computers either. But there is no support for funding any for any such changes in Bank Leumi. My mentioning of Linux, he said was the second complaint about that Linux, he had ever heard... Regarding accessibility, he said that that would be a concern for them *only* when that was required by legislation. Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Regards, Dov Actually the story is even worse. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Leumi had a second, older side, that worked just fine no-IE browsers. https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. I still use https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html with konqueror -- The day is short, and the work is great,| Aharon Schkolnik and the laborers are lazy, and the reward | is great, and the Master of the house is| [EMAIL PROTECTED] impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2| 050-8724844 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sat, Apr 08, 2006, Dov Grobgeld wrote about Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards: Since there has been some talk on this list about various not working with Linux, I thought I would report on a phone conversation that I had last night with the technical support of the Bank Leumi web site. .. mentioning of Linux, he said was the second complaint about that Linux, he had ever heard... This person is either a very new at his job, or a lier... I personally complained on this issue as well, so unless the two of us are the only two who ever complain, his count is simply wrong. By the way, my call to their support center (a few years ago) was almost surreal. I was sitting with my banker going over my investments, when I said to her that I was sick and tired of not being able to see my account from my own computer because don't support Linux. Linux? she said, What's that?. I tried to explain what Linux, Mozilla, and even Macintosh (!) were, until she simply connected me to the Bank Leumi guys that you called, and she listened in on the conversation. What they told me basically amounted to f*ck you, we don't care about you, similar to the response you got. So the situation was that my banker was very much interested to keep my business, but couldn't help me, and yet the people in Bank Leumi who could help me couldn't care less, and wouldn't lift a finger. Typical behavior from large, we-already-have-too-much-profits, companies. Unfortunately, it's also typical behavior of IT departments in such companies: they think they can get away with anything just because they appear to be experts: they think they can even get away with falsehoods like it costs money not to use IE-specific Javascript. A few months later, I found out that Leumi had an alternative site, almost an archeological site (apparently, it's an old site they once had that still works) - and amazingly that works. Apparently, Leumi once *had* a site that works on all browsers, but they actually spent money on *breaking* it - the complete opposite from what this guy told you on the phone. The old site still works, by the way (at least, it worked when I tried a few days ago). I don't remember the URL now, but you can search in this list's archives. -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, Apr 9 2006, 11 Nisan 5766 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Learn from mistakes of others; you won't http://nadav.harel.org.il |live long enough to make them all yourself = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 16:10 +0300, Aharon Schkolnik wrote: On Sunday 09 April 2006 13:29, Gilboa Davara wrote: On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 20:21 +0300, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Hello, Since there has been some talk on this list about various not working with Linux, I thought I would report on a phone conversation that I had last night with the technical support of the Bank Leumi web site. I had written in in their customer feedback form and told complained that the site is not standard complient, does not work with Firefox, and that their use of JavaScript probably made it non-accessible. They actually called me up yesterday, and the guy I spoke to acknowledged that that is the case, that they are aware of it, and that they have no immediate plans of mending it. They are only doing small changes and improvements to the web site code. He said that he RD guys would be happy to rewrite the site as the current site is not accessible to Macintosh users nor handheld computers either. But there is no support for funding any for any such changes in Bank Leumi. My mentioning of Linux, he said was the second complaint about that Linux, he had ever heard... Regarding accessibility, he said that that would be a concern for them *only* when that was required by legislation. Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Regards, Dov Actually the story is even worse. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Leumi had a second, older side, that worked just fine no-IE browsers. https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html Sadly enough, this site stopped working a couple of weeks ago. I still use https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html with konqueror You're using the same link as I do. -However-, since the mid-March, it always seem to be down. (including now) Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sat April 8 2006 20:21, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Poalim's site is slightly better, i.e. the site mostly works under FireFox, barring several bugs here and there ( hebrew menus are reversed until the page is refreshed, DHTML menus on Poalim's main site are shown by FireFox in an extremely broken way etc). -- Regards, Alex Chudnovsky e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ : 35559910 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 20:21 +0300, Dov Grobgeld wrote: Sigh... So it means that I still have to reboot into Windows and use Internet Explorer whenever I want to access my Bank Account. Are other banks better? Seems that we'll have to wait until some black hat breaks into Israeli bank accounts via an IE vulnerability. Then have the victims organize a massive group lawsuit, which includes also punitive damages, on grounds that the banks did not provide for a way to securely access the Web sites in question. Seems also that the above scenario will have to happen, because the banks (except perhaps for Bank Hapoalim) do not listen to warnings about this. May I suggest to move further discussion of this topic to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Omer -- MS-Windows is the Pal-Kal of the PC world. My own blog is at http://tddpirate.livejournal.com/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
