Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 12:16:01AM +0200, Sagi Bashari wrote: On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 09:20:01PM +0200, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote: On Saturday 09 November 2002 18:39, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: Hi all, Guys, when we were in Ra'ananim, I brought 25 packs of cheap CDs from a sponsor. No one wanted to pay entire sheqel for a poor CD. Just one idea (not directly answering your answer): We have here a public CD burner, that students can use. I thought/think about asking students to burn their own CDs in their free time (not immediately next to the party). I think most will do that if we ask. This way they choose the medias they want, and they spend their own time (less than an hour for a 3 CD set). Didi What are you talking about? I can't remember anyone selling preburned CD sets, and we only had one working burne. Empty media wasn't the problem (if is what you are referring to), we had plenty, but no way to burn them. Sagi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 06:39:15PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: Hi all, [snip] Didi At first let me say that giving every new instalee a CD set is desired. Now once you are going this way you will probably installed from this set because it might be easier for you. If I has managed to grasped what was going in the BIU party I took part several years ago, they contacted a commercial CD manufacture who was selling a CD set for 25 NIS for students who asked for it. Then the students took their new set to the install person who installed Linux on their machine. I believe a student could get without buying a set but most students did buy it. I don't know what sort of arrangement did the BIU had with that manufacture but there was no CD problem and although the man was left with CD sets I believe he did smile. On the other hand, it seems that the last 3 installation parties (Ra'ananin, Technion and TAU) had a CD problem of some degree. There fore it is probably a fact of life that you can not always have what is desirable. This is why the network option should be considered. For the rest of this message my Debian glasses will probably be more noticeable as this is the only distribution I am familiar with. I guess that many other popular distributions have the same tools. Am I wrong? 1. I don't know about PQmagic but I believe parted should be the software of choice when it comes to partitions matters. 2. Install from net: the way to go if possible. As for how to do it, following Debian's old way the problem should be divided into booting into Linux and carrying on from there. As for booting into Linux, preparing the equivalent of the boot floppy by yourself is not something you want to get into, or so I believe. There fore, the only way if the net option is essential seems to me using the official set and loadlin it. Since I don't have any experience with that, not even with Debian, I can't say more. Now once you were booted into the installation software, you might prepare a repository of the packages you want to install and install it, just like apt-get does. I am not sure it worth the trouble in order not to use the official ones but it is doable. You can NFS mount your repository, or prepare a dedicated http server for it. I guess you would include a boot loader as one of the packages - I didn't understand your `how to boot question'. I also didn't understand your suggestion about having your own ide disk. Are you suggesting to open the case, plug another disk and install from there? Yes. 3. As for knoppix, the only few things I have heard about it are that it is based on Debian and have a very good automated hardware detection facilties. These facilities sounds great for an installation party. However isn't being basically a Debian distribution doesn't mean lagging behind as far as KDE+GNOME desk top environments are concerned? So? But actually, they put (I think) unofficial KDE (and GNOME?) debs too. The ??? Just to share: My current thoughts are: 1. Install on a machine what I think is good for a student. Choose the packages by myself, maybe consult staff members, but not students (well, at least not many). Put a very loaded set of packages (that is, all of RH73 except servers, or something like that). That will take 2-3GB, and one of the observations I made was that this was not a problem for most students. The problem was that some people did not choose things they wanted to install (and after installation, it's ugly - no apt-get :-( ). 2. tar and bzip2 it. If it gets into a single CD, great. If not, cut it somehow. In the party: 3. Boot knoppix, or some other comfortable rescue floppy/cd. 4. If the installee wants to repartition, do it (with parted or some GUI, if your rescuecd has one). Otherwise, create a large file on one of the windows partitions, mkfs, loop mount. 5. Dump your tbz2 on it somehow (if you booted from a floppy rescue, and have it on CD, fine. Also net, another hard disk, maybe other ideas, possible). 6. Install a boot loader (grub or lilo) either on disk or on floppy. 7. Boot your dumped system and configure the few things that are needed. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
Maybe we can sell a pre-burned set's of cd's per order. I am willing to host and organize such a thing if people here will show their support on the matter. I have the means and a little time and money can be contributed to further promote Linux and sponsor parties and other Linux related activities. What do you think ? - Original Message - From: Sagi Bashari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shaul Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party? On 08/11/2002 23:21, Shaul Karl wrote: Yet I do believe that currently it will be best if every new installee will be given a CD set. In the party we had in Renanim many more people wanted a CD set for themselves than actually wanted us to install it. We didn't have any pre-burned CDs and only one functional burner, so only few actually got it. Maybe in the future we should sell CD sets (maybe ask someone who already does it, like guides.co.il like someone already offered), because giving away large quantities will be hard (actual burning time). Sagi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
Hi all, I started to write, mainly for myself, some notes about the instaparty we had on Thursday. Basically, I think the whole notion should be very different from today, and that the usuall installers (well, at least RH) are too general to be close-to-optimal for our (tau's) audience (and probably also most of the potential Israeli audience). I will use these notes mostly to prepare for our next instaparty, but I think many of the issues are also relevant to other instaparties. You can find the (on-going-version of the) notes here: http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~didi/instaparty-notes I will be happy to get comments. Didi On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 11:21:03PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: Just an idea how to somewhat reduce the number of CDs required for an installation party: Essential requirement: the installed PC should have a network card. Having a network card might be more common then it used to be with the spreading of fast Internet connectivity and having some boards with on board Ethernet interfaces. I guess you already figured out the rest: 1. In addition to preparing a suitable partition the owners of the PC to be installed will create the boot floppy set from a site that will be pointed out to them. They will run these floppies according to instructions that will be given to them. Besides get them to be able to run part of the installation by themselves this can reveal in advance hardware that is likely to be problematic. 2. The organizers of the installation party will deploy a LAN. Hopefully this reduces mainly to a HUB and some long network cables. 3. Installation will be through the LAN. Beside the question of whether it is not better to produce more CDs then to go through this procedure I wonder if this procedure will not make the installation longer. Yet I do believe that currently it will be best if every new installee will be given a CD set. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
Well, after seeing that Guides.co.il already provides nearly everything there is and it's cheap too (10 nis / per cd) I decided that doing such a thing by myself would not be very practical. Still, if there is people that want's Linux, it can be arranged by sending me e-mail :-) - Original Message - From: Shaul Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Oleg Kobets [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Sagi Bashari [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Linux-IL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party? On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 01:23:14PM +0200, Oleg Kobets wrote: Maybe we can sell a pre-burned set's of cd's per order. I am willing to host and organize such a thing if people here will show their support on the matter. I have the means and a little time and money can be contributed to further promote Linux and sponsor parties and other Linux related activities. What do you think ? Are you referring to both installation parties and to provide such a service on a regular basis? In the case of installation parties I believe there is a need for at least a few 10s of CDs. As someone else has pointed out, it is not realistic to produce them with a home CD writer. I believe this is true even if there is more then one CD writer. Which means that they have to be produced by an industrial process. However I believe one has to order a couple of 100s CDs for this to be cheap enough. BTW: I remember 2 posts lately looking for CDs. Were the CDs that were looked for actually supplied? If so was that cheaper then guides.co.il? Are there cheaper suppliers of Linux CDs then guides.co.il? I believe Yotam is willing to supply Debian CDs for the cost of the media and shipment or something like that on a regular basis. Are there other people like him? Personally I don't have a CD writer. - Original Message - From: Sagi Bashari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Shaul Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party? On 08/11/2002 23:21, Shaul Karl wrote: Yet I do believe that currently it will be best if every new installee will be given a CD set. In the party we had in Renanim many more people wanted a CD set for themselves than actually wanted us to install it. We didn't have any pre-burned CDs and only one functional burner, so only few actually got it. Maybe in the future we should sell CD sets (maybe ask someone who already does it, like guides.co.il like someone already offered), because giving away large quantities will be hard (actual burning time). Sagi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: Hi all, I started to write, mainly for myself, some notes about the instaparty we had on Thursday. Basically, I think the whole notion should be very different from today, and that the usuall installers (well, at least RH) are too general to be close-to-optimal for our (tau's) audience (and probably also most of the potential Israeli audience). I will use these notes mostly to prepare for our next instaparty, but I think many of the issues are also relevant to other instaparties. You can find the (on-going-version of the) notes here: http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~didi/instaparty-notes I will be happy to get comments. Didi At first let me say that giving every new instalee a CD set is desired. Now once you are going this way you will probably installed from this set because it might be easier for you. If I has managed to grasped what was going in the BIU party I took part several years ago, they contacted a commercial CD manufacture who was selling a CD set for 25 NIS for students who asked for it. Then the students took their new set to the install person who installed Linux on their machine. I believe a student could get without buying a set but most students did buy it. I don't know what sort of arrangement did the BIU had with that manufacture but there was no CD problem and although the man was left with CD sets I believe he did smile. On the other hand, it seems that the last 3 installation parties (Ra'ananin, Technion and TAU) had a CD problem of some degree. There fore it is probably a fact of life that you can not always have what is desirable. This is why the network option should be considered. For the rest of this message my Debian glasses will probably be more noticeable as this is the only distribution I am familiar with. I guess that many other popular distributions have the same tools. Am I wrong? 1. I don't know about PQmagic but I believe parted should be the software of choice when it comes to partitions matters. 2. Install from net: the way to go if possible. As for how to do it, following Debian's old way the problem should be divided into booting into Linux and carrying on from there. As for booting into Linux, preparing the equivalent of the boot floppy by yourself is not something you want to get into, or so I believe. There fore, the only way if the net option is essential seems to me using the official set and loadlin it. Since I don't have any experience with that, not even with Debian, I can't say more. Now once you were booted into the installation software, you might prepare a repository of the packages you want to install and install it, just like apt-get does. I am not sure it worth the trouble in order not to use the official ones but it is doable. You can NFS mount your repository, or prepare a dedicated http server for it. I guess you would include a boot loader as one of the packages - I didn't understand your `how to boot question'. I also didn't understand your suggestion about having your own ide disk. Are you suggesting to open the case, plug another disk and install from there? 3. As for knoppix, the only few things I have heard about it are that it is based on Debian and have a very good automated hardware detection facilties. These facilities sounds great for an installation party. However isn't being basically a Debian distribution doesn't mean lagging behind as far as KDE+GNOME desk top environments are concerned? The -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 09:20:01PM +0200, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote: On Saturday 09 November 2002 18:39, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: Hi all, Guys, when we were in Ra'ananim, I brought 25 packs of cheap CDs from a sponsor. No one wanted to pay entire sheqel for a poor CD. One reason might be that we say the Linux is free and immediately asking money for it. No wonder that every beginners FAQ explain how come it is legal to ask money for Linux CDs. The lesson might be that it should be emphasized how come Linux is free and yet people get charged for Linux CDs. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 09:20:01PM +0200, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote: On Saturday 09 November 2002 18:39, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: Hi all, Guys, when we were in Ra'ananim, I brought 25 packs of cheap CDs from a sponsor. No one wanted to pay entire sheqel for a poor CD. What are you talking about? I can't remember anyone selling preburned CD sets, and we only had one working burne. Empty media wasn't the problem (if is what you are referring to), we had plenty, but no way to burn them. Sagi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reducing the number of CDs required for an installation party?
On 08/11/2002 23:21, Shaul Karl wrote: Yet I do believe that currently it will be best if every new installee will be given a CD set. In the party we had in Renanim many more people wanted a CD set for themselves than actually wanted us to install it. We didn't have any pre-burned CDs and only one functional burner, so only few actually got it. Maybe in the future we should sell CD sets (maybe ask someone who already does it, like guides.co.il like someone already offered), because giving away large quantities will be hard (actual burning time). Sagi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
