Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
On Mon, Jul 07, 2014, geoffrey mendelson wrote about Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?: All I know is that in 1990 I bought an ATT UNIX system which included the ATT KERNEL, a lot of closed source software and a lot of open source BSD utilities. There was lots of open source programs for UNIX, many of them were public domain (similar to the BSD license). It did have X windows on it, but with my 2 meg of RAM 386SX, it would not run. In 1990, I was also using ATT SVr4 on a 386sx. There was no open source phenonmenon at the time - the Open Source world mostly included GNU, Unix stuff from Berkeley (BSD, Vi, TCL/TK, etc.), Columbia University (Kermet), MIT (X11), and little more. GNU was definitely a big piece of the open source world at the time - if not the biggest. By 1995, I was purchasing CD ROMs, with BSD (scrubbed after the lawsuit), which came with a large library of UNIX code, and LINUX distros (more than one), which came with the BSD libraries. GCC did not come into general use (or at all AFAIK) until SUN started selling Solaris, because SUNOS required you to compile and link modules to change KERNEL parameters, so it came with a C compiler and linker. In 1992, I was using SunOS, and although I loved it, I quickly found myself piecementally replacing pieces of it by free software, most of it GNU. By 1994, I was using almost exclusively GNU tools - the GNU fileutils instead of the SunOS (BSD-based) ones, GNU groff instead of ATT troff, GNU Emacs, Gnu make, Gnu bison instead of yacc, and yes, Gcc and the GNU linker utilities. GNU had a huge imact on my computing in the early 1990s, though definitely not the only free software I used (I also used X11 and Tcl/TK, for example). System 5 UNIX did not, you had to have a linker, but not a compiler, so the C compiler was not included and cost a lot of money. GCC was popularized so that people could compile things on their SUNS without spending a lot of money for a compiler. I had ATT SVr4 *with* a compiler, so this was not an issue for me, but gcc was simply *better*, and got better every day, while the SVr4 C compiler was buggy, outdated, and never improved. Another great thing going for the GNU project stuff was excellent documentation - which sadly didn't inspire GNU's followers :( -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Aug 6 2014, 10 Av 5774 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Isn't Disney World a people trap operated http://nadav.harel.org.il |by a mouse? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
Hi Orna, I'm thinking of renting a room for Stand-up philosophy sessions where people can donate money at any time. Thanks for letting me reply to the list . I opted for that. Regards, -- Shlomi Fish On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: Shlomi, You said you were interested in commerce centers. How about making your offer directly commercial: instead of asking for a sponsorship in Israel (and repay it in a not-well-defined coin), seek a sponsorship from those who wish to attend your talks, and repay them with a hard coin of letting them enjoy your talks. I am writing to you in private, but it is ok if you would like to take this back to the list. Orna On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then taking trains) where I: 1. Eat good food and drinks. 2. Have a good company of people I know from Freenode or other social media outlets, as well as people I just met. 3. Have clean, creative, fun. At age 37 (I'm 1977 born) I want to start living a little. For this I need the sponsorship of a company or individual. What I will give in exchange is: 1. Being proud to be sponsored by the company and speaking its praise. 2. Donate some of the revenues from my activities, such as Stand-up philosophy ( https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x ), revenues from screenplays and stories, donations, paid invitations, etc. back to the sponsor. 3. Contribute to the company's social media presence. For now I think I'll need between 200,000 USD and 500,000 USD, as well as finding a paid escort/guide. It's also first-come-first-served. If you or your company can do that, please contact me via E-mail at shlo...@shlomifish.org or GChat/GTalk/GoogleHangouts at shlo...@gmail.com . For more information, see my essay and links: https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/i5Z8XdqTdwE This took an unexpected turn as it progressed. Regards and thanks, -- Shlomi Fish -- -- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org -- -- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
On 7/6/2014 10:50 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Anyway, the GPLv3 or whatever licence the GNU sub-projects have does not prevent me from using GNU software, so that's it. The interesting point is that outside of a relatively small group of developers project GNU has no bearing on anything. Free (as in beer) software existed long before RMS, open source software, including operating systems, existed long before Linux, or even BSD. And it continues to exist long after. I doubt that anyone one this list, or any other list for that matter, runs 100% GPL licensed software on their computers. They may be running only free and open source software, but I am sure some of it has a BSD type, or other license. So to answer the question someone posed, would we be running the same thing as we are now if RMS never existed? Probably not. Something very close, YES. Would LINUX have existed? Maybe. Maybe Linus would have spent his time improving the free. open source, BSD instead. We actually may have been doing better because a lot of time and effort was spent in the 1990's producing GPL'ed version of BSD utilites that could have been spent elsewhere. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
On Mon, Jul 07, 2014 at 10:51:35AM +0300, geoffrey mendelson wrote: On 7/6/2014 10:50 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Anyway, the GPLv3 or whatever licence the GNU sub-projects have does not prevent me from using GNU software, so that's it. The interesting point is that outside of a relatively small group of developers project GNU has no bearing on anything. Free (as in beer) software existed long before RMS, open source software, including operating systems, existed long before Linux, or even BSD. And it continues to exist long after. I doubt that anyone one this list, or any other list for that matter, runs 100% GPL licensed software on their computers. They may be running only free and open source software, but I am sure some of it has a BSD type, or other license. The GNU system was intended to include X11 and TeX, so I doubt it if that was actually a goal. So to answer the question someone posed, would we be running the same thing as we are now if RMS never existed? Probably not. Something very close, YES. Would LINUX have existed? Maybe. Maybe Linus would have spent his time improving the free. open source, BSD instead. We actually may have been doing better because a lot of time and effort was spent in the 1990's producing GPL'ed version of BSD utilites that could have been spent elsewhere. There wasn't that much good BSD code out there when the GNU project started. BSD started provided a complete system at the beginning of the 1990-s. And shortly thereafter it got into a trial with ATT. Also shortly after development was halted and much of it moved to proprietary forks. By then the basic system for Linux to use (sans kernel) was GNU. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
On 7/7/2014 11:57 AM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: There wasn't that much good BSD code out there when the GNU project started. BSD started provided a complete system at the beginning of the 1990-s. And shortly thereafter it got into a trial with ATT. Also shortly after development was halted and much of it moved to proprietary forks. By then the basic system for Linux to use (sans kernel) was GNU. All I know is that in 1990 I bought an ATT UNIX system which included the ATT KERNEL, a lot of closed source software and a lot of open source BSD utilities. There was lots of open source programs for UNIX, many of them were public domain (similar to the BSD license). It did have X windows on it, but with my 2 meg of RAM 386SX, it would not run. By 1995, I was purchasing CD ROMs, with BSD (scrubbed after the lawsuit), which came with a large library of UNIX code, and LINUX distros (more than one), which came with the BSD libraries. GCC did not come into general use (or at all AFAIK) until SUN started selling Solaris, because SUNOS required you to compile and link modules to change KERNEL parameters, so it came with a C compiler and linker. System 5 UNIX did not, you had to have a linker, but not a compiler, so the C compiler was not included and cost a lot of money. GCC was popularized so that people could compile things on their SUNS without spending a lot of money for a compiler. So from my point of view, based on the early 1990's BSD was it, not Linux, and the GPL was not really important then. You could happily run an open source BSD system without any GPL'ed code, and except for the Linux KERNEL. happily run a Linux system without any. Not counting all of those SUN computers that had come one the surplus market when they went to SPARC and then went to the pizzabox systems. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
Re:all //Taking flamebait... after a crazy topic lets have a crazy flamewar on Israeli politics because we have nothing better to do with our lives. 2014-07-06 7:48 GMT+03:00 geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com: But your, Geoff, incendiary remarks re RMS, are quite out of place. RMS' laudable stance on BDS is quite irrelevant to this list, in my opinion. I hope that was sarcastic, because his stance is that of a coward. That said almost anyone with some Sechel Yashar knows RMS is bat shit crazy (just like the BDS movement but that's OT). Yes, he was part of the start of a great movement and for that we need to be grateful but we don't need to listen to every word he has to say, if we did most of the people on this list would probably have to stop using a considerable amount of their daily digital conveniences. Flame away, Eliyahu - אליהו Incendiary or not, his actions did have an effect upon the FOSS community. Besides any direct effect in relation to RMS , the FSS and project GNU, which is debatable, it caused Larry Ellison, who is a big supporter of Israel in general and Sderot in particular to look elsewhere for his open source aspirations. By the time Oracle bought SUN, Solaris had become almost another Linux distro. It included the SUN UNIX Kernel, and a lot of SUN proprietary stuff, but more than half of it was project GNU software. You could see that the intention was to replace the UNIX code with the GNU alternatives. SUN also released a copy of their UNIX code as open source, but not under GNU for legal reasons (most of it was already under BSD license). So Oracle dropped the open source Solaris version, it still exists, but there is very little interest or support for it, and the GNU code is slowly being replaced with non open source UNIX code or BSD code. BUT the biggest effect was that Open Office, which was supposed to be given to the FSF to help them replace their editor with something useful, never happened. Instead it went to the Apache Foundation and has been released under their BSDish license. So Marc, his actions may have been laudable or not, and my comments may have been incendiary or not, but in the end it means that we are even more so stuck with that f'ing editor. :-( Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
Ok, I'll jump on this wagon, I also want sponsorship, I ask for half the amount that Shlomi is asking. I will use the money to buy a sailing yacht and sail around the world, Ok maybe not around the world but at least in the Mediterranean. In return to this generous sponsorship I will put the name of the company on the sails of the yacht. Note that sail areas is around 30 sqr. meters so there is a huge area for a big add. Any takers? N.B. regard this message a humor (although I would not resist to really get such donation) I already have my own company, however this company's earnings at this point allow me to sponsor a little more then Falafel dish at a Kiosk stand, it still does not allow me to sponsor neither my own yacht nor Shlomi's trip. -- Ori Idan On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Geoffrey, hope you had a great Shabbath by the time you're reading it. You're raising some interesting points which I'd like to address, and I apologise if I weren't clear and explicit before. On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/4/2014 8:56 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all, I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then taking trains) where I: ROTFL. Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous. Why do you feel it does not belong on this list? Many people here offer jobs or ask for jobs, and my offer can provide a lot of promotion and publicity to a company/individual/organisation who wishes to sponsor me. Regarding ridiculous there is http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=same-ideas-as-everybody-else : « If you have the same ideas as everybody else, but have them one week earlier than everyone else - then you will be hailed as a visionary. But if you have them five years earlier, you will be named a lunatic. » Some of the things I predicted and/or projected are: * http://www.advogato.org/article/361.html - world-editable screenplays for films back in 2001 - I was told it will likely not going to work, but now there are many screenplay projects which use wiki-style interfaces, and there quite a many successful world-editable-or-almost-world-editable wikis out there (e.g: the Wikimedia project, the Wikias, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes ). * http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ - in this story I describe FOSS (and to a lesser extent open content/culture) geeks, and especially female geeks, as chic, intelligent, attractive, socially capable, and sexually assertive, and not only are they mainstream, but they are the alphas - the constant object of attraction and often jealousy of their peers. Back after I finished writing it in 2004 and publicised it for scrutiny on the linux-elitists mailing list - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/conclusions/#review--modus-operandi - I was criticised for making it look like being a FOSS/open-culture hacker was a gateway to popularity, but now it is quite common all around the world, as exemplified by the success of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory , and not only are almost all attractive female attracted to geeks, but most of them are geeky[Geeky] themselves, *and* yet they are not socially awkward or sexually inept. [Geeky] - see http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=401 for what is a geek , as well as what Paul Graham wrote about amateurs and hackers. If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider a plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week for hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to the next country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and then move on. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce along to the Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks. My lectures are not only about FOSS - they are also about free/open culture/content, and mix and match other topics such as love/romance/relationships, action, humour, history, science, amateur philosophy, etc. See: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/ Anyway, you are right that I probably overestimated the cost and can survive on much less. Regarding Ireland - Russia - I'm not interested only in software development hubs, but in general - every centre of commerce is game for me: Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Berlin, London, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna, Riga, Vilnius, Budapest, Bucharest, etc. etc. Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US, which would take an entire year, one week per state. I'm: 1. Not going to .us any time soon. 2. Not interested in being 100%
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
But your, Geoff, incendiary remarks re RMS, are quite out of place. RMS' laudable stance on BDS is quite irrelevant to this list, in my opinion. Incendiary or not, his actions did have an effect upon the FOSS community. Besides any direct effect in relation to RMS , the FSS and project GNU, which is debatable, it caused Larry Ellison, who is a big supporter of Israel in general and Sderot in particular to look elsewhere for his open source aspirations. By the time Oracle bought SUN, Solaris had become almost another Linux distro. It included the SUN UNIX Kernel, and a lot of SUN proprietary stuff, but more than half of it was project GNU software. You could see that the intention was to replace the UNIX code with the GNU alternatives. SUN also released a copy of their UNIX code as open source, but not under GNU for legal reasons (most of it was already under BSD license). So Oracle dropped the open source Solaris version, it still exists, but there is very little interest or support for it, and the GNU code is slowly being replaced with non open source UNIX code or BSD code. BUT the biggest effect was that Open Office, which was supposed to be given to the FSF to help them replace their editor with something useful, never happened. Instead it went to the Apache Foundation and has been released under their BSDish license. So Marc, his actions may have been laudable or not, and my comments may have been incendiary or not, but in the end it means that we are even more so stuck with that f'ing editor. :-( Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
On 7/4/2014 8:56 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all, I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then taking trains) where I: ROTFL. Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous. If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider a plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week for hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to the next country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and then move one. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce along to the Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks. Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US, which would take an entire year, one week per state. But not just for a vacation, or for sponsorship opportunity, you would have to show off your operating system that lots of people use, or your office suite, Nobel Prize, or Olympic Medal. No use writing an editor, no one is interested in paying RMS to speak, especially since he, as president of the FSF, ex ex*/officio/* https://www.google.co.il/search?es_sm=122q=ex+officiospell=1sa=Xei=yFi2U4mZIIK00wXM_IDQDgved=0CBkQvwUoAA, announced he was supporting the Palestinian Boycott of Israel. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Which company or individual can sponsor me on a summer trip to Europe?
Hi Geoffrey, hope you had a great Shabbath by the time you're reading it. You're raising some interesting points which I'd like to address, and I apologise if I weren't clear and explicit before. On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/4/2014 8:56 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all, I wish to go on a Summer trip to Europe (flight to Istanbul and then taking trains) where I: ROTFL. Not only do I not think this belongs on this list, but it's ridiculous. Why do you feel it does not belong on this list? Many people here offer jobs or ask for jobs, and my offer can provide a lot of promotion and publicity to a company/individual/organisation who wishes to sponsor me. Regarding ridiculous there is http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=same-ideas-as-everybody-else : « If you have the same ideas as everybody else, but have them one week earlier than everyone else - then you will be hailed as a visionary. But if you have them five years earlier, you will be named a lunatic. » Some of the things I predicted and/or projected are: * http://www.advogato.org/article/361.html - world-editable screenplays for films back in 2001 - I was told it will likely not going to work, but now there are many screenplay projects which use wiki-style interfaces, and there quite a many successful world-editable-or-almost-world-editable wikis out there (e.g: the Wikimedia project, the Wikias, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes ). * http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ - in this story I describe FOSS (and to a lesser extent open content/culture) geeks, and especially female geeks, as chic, intelligent, attractive, socially capable, and sexually assertive, and not only are they mainstream, but they are the alphas - the constant object of attraction and often jealousy of their peers. Back after I finished writing it in 2004 and publicised it for scrutiny on the linux-elitists mailing list - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/conclusions/#review--modus-operandi - I was criticised for making it look like being a FOSS/open-culture hacker was a gateway to popularity, but now it is quite common all around the world, as exemplified by the success of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory , and not only are almost all attractive female attracted to geeks, but most of them are geeky[Geeky] themselves, *and* yet they are not socially awkward or sexually inept. [Geeky] - see http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=401 for what is a geek , as well as what Paul Graham wrote about amateurs and hackers. If I were in a position to sponsor anyone for more than a felafel at a stand up kiosk, I would consider this so unreasonable that it's just laughable. As I said, IF I were going to fund someone, I might consider a plan that includes 2 $1,000 airplane tickets, and about $1,000 a week for hotel, food, transportation within each country and train fare to the next country, for a week in a country to give 4-5 FOSS lectures, and then move on. You probably could start in the Irish Republic and bounce along to the Russian Republic which would take around 15-20 weeks. My lectures are not only about FOSS - they are also about free/open culture/content, and mix and match other topics such as love/romance/relationships, action, humour, history, science, amateur philosophy, etc. See: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/ Anyway, you are right that I probably overestimated the cost and can survive on much less. Regarding Ireland - Russia - I'm not interested only in software development hubs, but in general - every centre of commerce is game for me: Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Berlin, London, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna, Riga, Vilnius, Budapest, Bucharest, etc. etc. Or you could the same thing for about 1.5 times the money in the US, which would take an entire year, one week per state. I'm: 1. Not going to .us any time soon. 2. Not interested in being 100% comprehensive. But not just for a vacation, or for sponsorship opportunity, you would have to show off your operating system that lots of people use, or your office suite, Nobel Prize, or Olympic Medal. I have many stories/screenplays, many aphorisms, quotes, Chuck Norris/etc. factoids, bits, programs, etc. Many people told me that they recognise my homepage and especially its EvilPHish emblem (See http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#evilphish-emblem ) and someone told me that I also look exactly like he though I would. And part of the reason why I'm going on tour is to gain more recognition and to practice my stand-up-philosophy. No use writing an editor, no one is interested in paying RMS to speak, especially since he, as president of the FSF, ex ex *officio* https://www.google.co.il/search?es_sm=122q=ex+officiospell=1sa=Xei=yFi2U4mZIIK00wXM_IDQDgved=0CBkQvwUoAA, announced he was
