Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On 08/06/2012 10:39 AM, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sun, Aug 05, 2012, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about "Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies": So not only check your bill carefully, but before you start sending lots of free SMSs, make sure it does not cost you to receive them. In Israel, you *do not* pay for incoming SMSs - it is the sender that pays for them. What can happen, however - is *fraud*: The cellular providers in Israel invented the trick of SMS "services", where you subscribe to some service (e.g., get a summary of the news once every day) and you pay for this service however much the service provider decides - often you pay per (incoming) SMS. Reverse SMS billing is not exclusive to Israel, and I doubt it's an Israeli invention. The problem is that much (if not 99%) of this concept is used not for legitimate services, but for fraud. E.g., you may find yourself unintentionally subscribed to a "service" that sends you random messages, or (in your case) messages sent over the web seemingly for free, and then bill you for 0.5 shekels, or even 50 shekels if they wish, for each such SMS. Nobody (especially not the cellular providers, who make a nice commission from the fraud) cares if you were never told that this service costs you money. A few years ago I did some work for an outfit that sent such reverse billing SMS. The company they sent them through required them to follow a double verification procedure before a new number could be added as a subscriber. Services are all listed on your cell phone bill, and removing them is as simple as calling the company listed there and telling them to stop the service. Starting last year, one type of service, the one used for trivia games, is opt-in. Phoned are blocked by default. It is unbelievable that several years after this fraud technique became popular, the ministry of communication hasn't closed this loophole. The closest they have come to doing so was to force the cellular providers to let you tell them that you don't want "SMS services" (not the normal SMSs, just the paid services) and you can no longer be defrauded in this manner. -- Thanks, Uri http://bruck.co.il twitter http://twitter.com/ubruck identi.ca http://identi.ca/bruck Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On Sun, Aug 05, 2012, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies: So not only check your bill carefully, but before you start sending lots of free SMSs, make sure it does not cost you to receive them. In Israel, you *do not* pay for incoming SMSs - it is the sender that pays for them. What can happen, however - is *fraud*: The cellular providers in Israel invented the trick of SMS services, where you subscribe to some service (e.g., get a summary of the news once every day) and you pay for this service however much the service provider decides - often you pay per (incoming) SMS. The problem is that much (if not 99%) of this concept is used not for legitimate services, but for fraud. E.g., you may find yourself unintentionally subscribed to a service that sends you random messages, or (in your case) messages sent over the web seemingly for free, and then bill you for 0.5 shekels, or even 50 shekels if they wish, for each such SMS. Nobody (especially not the cellular providers, who make a nice commission from the fraud) cares if you were never told that this service costs you money. It is unbelievable that several years after this fraud technique became popular, the ministry of communication hasn't closed this loophole. The closest they have come to doing so was to force the cellular providers to let you tell them that you don't want SMS services (not the normal SMSs, just the paid services) and you can no longer be defrauded in this manner. -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 6 2012, 18 Av 5772 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Warning: Dates on the calendar are closer http://nadav.harel.org.il |than they appear. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On 8/6/12 10:39 AM, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sun, Aug 05, 2012, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies: So not only check your bill carefully, but before you start sending lots of free SMSs, make sure it does not cost you to receive them. In Israel, you *do not* pay for incoming SMSs - it is the sender that pays for them. Sorry, that's wrong. Until recently you paid for incoming SMSs too. There was a big stink about it a few years ago because people with kosher cell phones were still charged for them, although they were never delivered. If you had a plan from before then you were charged. I found that out the hard (expensive) way. Since we sent and received less than 10 SMSs a month, it never occurred to me to change the plan and I forgot about it until my son started dating a girl with no internet coverage at home. After we put a stop to their calling, they sent hundreds of SMSs through a free site. It wasn't until a month later that I was reminded of the plan we had. They are no longer dating, and his new girlfriend has internet at home, and my son has an all you can eat airtime and SMS plan now. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
Hey, ICQ currently does not run on most carriers anymore. They terminated nearly all agreements with carriers. Therefore chance new carriers might work is IMHO zero. They used to list the carriers in http://www.icq.com/sms , but now that page is just full with junk I followed this closely because of SMSer which I wrote. Guy On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 8/6/12 10:39 AM, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sun, Aug 05, 2012, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies: So not only check your bill carefully, but before you start sending lots of free SMSs, make sure it does not cost you to receive them. In Israel, you *do not* pay for incoming SMSs - it is the sender that pays for them. Sorry, that's wrong. Until recently you paid for incoming SMSs too. There was a big stink about it a few years ago because people with kosher cell phones were still charged for them, although they were never delivered. If you had a plan from before then you were charged. I found that out the hard (expensive) way. Since we sent and received less than 10 SMSs a month, it never occurred to me to change the plan and I forgot about it until my son started dating a girl with no internet coverage at home. After we put a stop to their calling, they sent hundreds of SMSs through a free site. It wasn't until a month later that I was reminded of the plan we had. They are no longer dating, and his new girlfriend has internet at home, and my son has an all you can eat airtime and SMS plan now. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 __**_ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/**mailman/listinfo/linux-ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On Mon, Aug 06, 2012, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote about Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies: In Israel, you *do not* pay for incoming SMSs - it is the sender that pays for them. Sorry, that's wrong. Until recently you paid for incoming SMSs too. No, I believe that *this* statement is wrong. I've had Israeli cellphones for the last 18 years, from 4 different providers and many different deals, good bad and ugly - and not once did I ever hear of anyone getting charged of incoming anything - not incoming calls and not incoming SMSs. I don't know what I am missing... I never heard from anyone else of any plan (in Israel) which charges for incoming SMSs. Has anybody else on the list heard of such a plan? Maybe I've been living under a rock? If you had a plan from before then you were charged. I found that out the hard (expensive) way. I don't know what I (or you...) are missing here... Either you were defrauded by incoming service SMSs like I suggested in my previous mail, or alternatively you got these SMSs while you were abroad, which does cost money even for incoming SMSs (although I think you would have noticed if that's the case...). started dating a girl with no internet coverage at home. After we put a stop to their calling, they sent hundreds of SMSs through a free site. It wasn't until a month later that I was reminded of the plan we had. I'd be suspicious that this free site was actually a fraud site, which charged the receiver real money at the pretext of being a free service. Unless you're really sure you had this terrible plan, the only plan in Israel which also charged for incoming SMSs... -- Nadav Har'El| Monday, Aug 6 2012, 19 Av 5772 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Boat: A hole in the water surrounded by http://nadav.harel.org.il |wood into which one pours money. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:43 AM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Shimi, thanks for the detailed info. The regular companies have some agreement with icq? We know that at some point cellcom stopped their service and it's possible to send free sms via their web site online. Ill check today with Rami Levi network. Yes, they have an agreement. See http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3828098,00.html -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
Yes, they have an agreement. See http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3828098,00.html 1. That article is 2 and 1/2 years old. A lot may have changed since then. 2. Rami Levi just renegotiated their contract with Pelephone, it was about to expire in late June or early July and they were trying to make a deal with Orange. They ended up staying with Pelephone. 3. Until we signed up for an unlimited plan with Orange, we were paying 50ag for incoming messages. Since we rarely text it was not an issue (it did not add significantly to our bill) until my son ran up a 500 NIS phone bill calling his girlfriend and was told to cut it out. He found a Hebrew site that sends free SMSs and ran up another 400 NIS in SMS charges before we got the next bill. So not only check your bill carefully, but before you start sending lots of free SMSs, make sure it does not cost you to receive them. Not that it matters much, but I believe if you have a Huawei USB modem on your asterisk system, you can send an SMS with it. I use it to make calls but have never gone to the effort of figuring out how to send an SMS. If I remember correctly there is a similar channel driver for some models of Nokia phones, connected via USB or Bluetooth. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, they have an agreement. See http://www.ynet.co.il/**articles/0,7340,L-3828098,00.**htmlhttp://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3828098,00.html 1. That article is 2 and 1/2 years old. A lot may have changed since then. Perhaps, but no matter what, you cannot access a Telecom network subscriber without negotiating some agreement with the subscriber's network (or with someone else who has access to them). And if a subscriber network takes money for inbound access (and at least in Israel - they do...), if you want to send traffic to them FOR FREE, well, someone will have to make an agreement. It doesn't matter how old the article is. The above assertion will of course be void if and when the dmey kishuriyut will be 0 agorot per SMS. We are not there yet (nor is that planned for the near future, AFAIK). So far the cellular companies always charged from their peers the maximum possible by law. So to get there, it would probably require the MOC to decide that. -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
sms via icq with the new mobile companies
Hi Anyone knows if sms via icq works with the new mobile companies like golan telecom hot mobile, rami levi? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
Hi, I imagine that some might work. Rami Levi is using Pelephone infrastructure, so it might work. Golan Telecom is using Cellcom's so this might not work (well, it still doesn't get my SMS from Google). IMHO the best is to test using Google SMS chat and try sending messages, see if those new numbers get those messages. Good luck, Hetz 2012/8/4 sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com Hi Anyone knows if sms via icq works with the new mobile companies like golan telecom hot mobile, rami levi? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- *חץ בן חמו חץ-ביז *השכרה ואירוח של שרתים פיזיים מעוניין להשתמש בשרותים שחסומים לגולש הישראלי? Hulu? NetFlix? Pandora? Google Voice? אם כן, היכנס לכאן http://vps.net.bz/?p=406. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo het...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I imagine that some might work. Rami Levi is using Pelephone infrastructure, so it might work. Golan Telecom is using Cellcom's so this might not work (well, it still doesn't get my SMS from Google). IMHO the best is to test using Google SMS chat and try sending messages, see if those new numbers get those messages. Golan and Hot Mobile are using Cellcom/Pelephone's antennas, but that doesn't say anything besides that. Specifically, they (I'm sure about Golan, almost sure about Hot) have their own network switching cores (Golan purchased 2 of them from Nokia Siemens Networks), and that (AFAIK) includes the SMSC and MMSC gateways... so they're a completely different service provider, even though they share RF antennas while they build their own. Both Golan and Hot have a unique MNC[1] code. Rami Levi is indeed different, because they use Pelephone's switches. Still, I don't see any good reason for Pelephone to provide them connectivity to ICQ... every service they don't have to give to the virtual operators by law, there's no reason for them to help their competition... -- Shimi [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Network_Code ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: sms via icq with the new mobile companies
Shimi, thanks for the detailed info. The regular companies have some agreement with icq? We know that at some point cellcom stopped their service and it's possible to send free sms via their web site online. Ill check today with Rami Levi network. On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:15 PM, shimi linux...@shimi.net wrote: On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo het...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I imagine that some might work. Rami Levi is using Pelephone infrastructure, so it might work. Golan Telecom is using Cellcom's so this might not work (well, it still doesn't get my SMS from Google). IMHO the best is to test using Google SMS chat and try sending messages, see if those new numbers get those messages. Golan and Hot Mobile are using Cellcom/Pelephone's antennas, but that doesn't say anything besides that. Specifically, they (I'm sure about Golan, almost sure about Hot) have their own network switching cores (Golan purchased 2 of them from Nokia Siemens Networks), and that (AFAIK) includes the SMSC and MMSC gateways... so they're a completely different service provider, even though they share RF antennas while they build their own. Both Golan and Hot have a unique MNC[1] code. Rami Levi is indeed different, because they use Pelephone's switches. Still, I don't see any good reason for Pelephone to provide them connectivity to ICQ... every service they don't have to give to the virtual operators by law, there's no reason for them to help their competition... -- Shimi [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Network_Code ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
