Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 03:16:45AM -0400, Rob Landley wrote: > Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... Having redundant everything would be preferable. But cables do sometimes fail. Not sure about the controllers, but if the controller went you might loose the whole raid. > On the models I saw they also literally gold plated the connectors, spun the > disks faster, and basically did everything they could think of to make the > same basic bundle of components more expensive. (Of course the fundamental > thing you do to make it more expensive is have smaller production runs in the > first place...) Well I guess the theory is that a gold plated connector won't corrode as much so the connection is less likely to fail. Not sure if there is any proof to backup that theory. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Fri, 18 May 2007 03:16:45 -0400 Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 17 May 2007 11:04 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > > > Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than > SATA, > > > and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less > > > corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't > > > know why SAS would be superior to SATA. > > > > SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. > > Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... That only matters if you don't lay the data out with mirrors on different controllers in the first place - which is cheaper to do with SATA than buy any SAS kit IMHO - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Thursday 17 May 2007 11:04 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > > Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, > > and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less > > corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't > > know why SAS would be superior to SATA. > > SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... On the models I saw they also literally gold plated the connectors, spun the disks faster, and basically did everything they could think of to make the same basic bundle of components more expensive. (Of course the fundamental thing you do to make it more expensive is have smaller production runs in the first place...) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Thursday 17 May 2007 11:04 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't know why SAS would be superior to SATA. SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... On the models I saw they also literally gold plated the connectors, spun the disks faster, and basically did everything they could think of to make the same basic bundle of components more expensive. (Of course the fundamental thing you do to make it more expensive is have smaller production runs in the first place...) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Fri, 18 May 2007 03:16:45 -0400 Rob Landley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 17 May 2007 11:04 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't know why SAS would be superior to SATA. SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... That only matters if you don't lay the data out with mirrors on different controllers in the first place - which is cheaper to do with SATA than buy any SAS kit IMHO - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 03:16:45AM -0400, Rob Landley wrote: Because the controller's far more likely to go than the moving parts... Having redundant everything would be preferable. But cables do sometimes fail. Not sure about the controllers, but if the controller went you might loose the whole raid. On the models I saw they also literally gold plated the connectors, spun the disks faster, and basically did everything they could think of to make the same basic bundle of components more expensive. (Of course the fundamental thing you do to make it more expensive is have smaller production runs in the first place...) Well I guess the theory is that a gold plated connector won't corrode as much so the connection is less likely to fail. Not sure if there is any proof to backup that theory. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, > and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less > corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't > know why SAS would be superior to SATA. SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: >> Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just >> for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't >> been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was >> mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without >> updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. > > Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid > (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct > thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel > power down the darn hardware? Yeah, about right. Because kernel can't skip FLUSH CACHE and FLUSH CACHE can spin up the disk back again. Oh well, some disks even spin back up on STANDBYNOW to spin down again. The big fat warning and all compat mess are to avoid introducing regression and urge shutdown(8) update such that it does nothing. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: >> Distros should update their shutdown(8) to do the followings. >> Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it >> does, write 0 to it. For each libata harddisk >> Check whether /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop exists. If it >> doesn't, synchronize cache and spin the disk down as before. If it does, do >> nothing and continue to the next disk. The file is also accessible as >> /sys/block/sdX/device/scsi_disk:*/manage_start_stop. > > You're saying all this is to work around kernels _before_ 2.6.22, and instead > of updating your shutdown you could just either update the kernel instead? Yeap, I was assuming most shutdown(8)s were spinning down disks, which apparently is wrong. If shutdown(8) doesn't do that, you can just upgrade the kernel and be done with it. I'll submit update for the page in a few hours. >> If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that >> is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a >> fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way >> is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to >> kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility >> options. > > I'm all for leaving this to the kernel. I play in the embedded space a lot, > so the less I can get away with doing, the better. :) Yeap, that's what's being done here. For all SCSI disks (real SCSI, SATA, USB, whatnot), it's now controlled by sysfs node manage_start_stop. Low level drivers can turn them on by default and userland can change them by echoing to it. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: Distros should update their shutdown(8) to do the followings. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. For each libata harddisk Check whether /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop exists. If it doesn't, synchronize cache and spin the disk down as before. If it does, do nothing and continue to the next disk. The file is also accessible as /sys/block/sdX/device/scsi_disk:*/manage_start_stop. You're saying all this is to work around kernels _before_ 2.6.22, and instead of updating your shutdown you could just either update the kernel instead? Yeap, I was assuming most shutdown(8)s were spinning down disks, which apparently is wrong. If shutdown(8) doesn't do that, you can just upgrade the kernel and be done with it. I'll submit update for the page in a few hours. If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility options. I'm all for leaving this to the kernel. I play in the embedded space a lot, so the less I can get away with doing, the better. :) Yeap, that's what's being done here. For all SCSI disks (real SCSI, SATA, USB, whatnot), it's now controlled by sysfs node manage_start_stop. Low level drivers can turn them on by default and userland can change them by echoing to it. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel power down the darn hardware? Yeah, about right. Because kernel can't skip FLUSH CACHE and FLUSH CACHE can spin up the disk back again. Oh well, some disks even spin back up on STANDBYNOW to spin down again. The big fat warning and all compat mess are to avoid introducing regression and urge shutdown(8) update such that it does nothing. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 12:39:47AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't know why SAS would be superior to SATA. SAS is dual ported so you can have redundant cables and controllers. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: > > But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown > > support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown > > on shutdown(8) if you can... > > Or (and this is just a thought), you could upgrade your kernel so it > correctly > handles your hardware, treating this just like any other driver bug or other The distros can't update kernels that easily on their stable branches. And in the userland side, we are not breaking things any further for users of kernels before 2.6.22 anyway. Don't expect shutdown(8) to remove support for <2.6.22 any time soon, at least in Debian. That will happen only when we are forced by some other reason to completely break compatibility with such kernels. > Last I checked you didn't have to spin down a USB flash key. If SATA is But you have to spin down an USB HD... el-cheapo USB enclosures will NOT do it for you. It is not an easy problem. > SCSI, what the heck is SAS? (Answer: a cynical marketing hack to bleed SCSI > bigots for the huge margins they've always been bled for. But oh well.) It Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't know why SAS would be superior to SATA. -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 8:58 pm, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: > > Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid > > (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct > > thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel > > power down the darn hardware? > > Yes, for *all* SCSI disk devices, libata or not. I realize that this time next year it won't be possible to use a ramdisk or a network block device without going through the SCSI layer, but while it remains an option I'm relishing _not_ using it, thanks. > But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown > support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown > on shutdown(8) if you can... Or (and this is just a thought), you could upgrade your kernel so it correctly handles your hardware, treating this just like any other driver bug or other lack of proper hardware support in the history of Linux. (Back when APM couldn't power off the machine at the end of the shutdown sequence, did we modify shutdown to try to work around this, or did we fix it in the kernel so it worked?) Why does everybody want to shoehorn everything through the SCSI layer, anyway? Last I checked you didn't have to spin down a USB flash key. If SATA is SCSI, what the heck is SAS? (Answer: a cynical marketing hack to bleed SCSI bigots for the huge margins they've always been bled for. But oh well.) It would be hilarious if I didn't have to put up with it renumbering my devices and imposing requirements for hardware I haven't got on hardware I have got... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: > Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid > (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct > thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel > power down the darn hardware? Yes, for *all* SCSI disk devices, libata or not. But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown on shutdown(8) if you can... -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 9:49 am, Francesco Pretto wrote: > 2007/5/16, Stephen Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > >On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: > > > > > >I'm confused. Could someone please explain? > > > > > I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why > > can't libata work as well > > as the old ide driver. > > > > Read my reply to that post. To summarize: libata, prior to 2.6.22rc1, > lacked the feature to spindown the hard disk. The last discussion was > about who's responsable to issue the STANDBYNOW command to the hard > disk. Response from the discussion is: the kernel. Trying to issue it > form userspace (iff your shutdown(8) implementation do so) will now > result in a big fat warning, until these compatibility measures will > be dropped from the kernel (soon or later). The last bit was what threw me. It seemed that the kernel was changed to do the right thing, but only as a compatability measure that would be dropped because userspace should be changed to start doing it (which seemed crazy). It seems that the _warning_ is the compatability measure that will be dropped (or perhaps the ability for userspace to do the wrong thing at all?), and the kernel will continue to DTRT. It's a bit confusing for those of us coming in late in the discussion. :) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 7:41 am, Tejun Heo wrote: > Hello, > > Rob Landley wrote: > > Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss > > and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song > > and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? > > Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just > for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't > been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was > mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without > updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel power down the darn hardware? Woot, Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 5:15 am, Francesco Pretto wrote: > - everyone else: > // continue to do nothing :-) > reboot(); That would be cool, but the impression I got from http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html was that shutdown commands were supposed to _add_ quiescing of drives in order to avoid emergency head parking on poweroff. That article says: > Distros should update their shutdown(8) to do the followings. > Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it > does, write 0 to it. For each libata harddisk > Check whether /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop exists. If it > doesn't, synchronize cache and spin the disk down as before. If it does, do > nothing and continue to the next disk. The file is also accessible as > /sys/block/sdX/device/scsi_disk:*/manage_start_stop. You're saying all this is to work around kernels _before_ 2.6.22, and instead of updating your shutdown you could just either update the kernel instead? > If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that > is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a > fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way > is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to > kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility > options. I'm all for leaving this to the kernel. I play in the embedded space a lot, so the less I can get away with doing, the better. :) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/16, Stephen Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: > >I'm confused. Could someone please explain? > I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why can't libata work as well as the old ide driver. Read my reply to that post. To summarize: libata, prior to 2.6.22rc1, lacked the feature to spindown the hard disk. The last discussion was about who's responsable to issue the STANDBYNOW command to the hard disk. Response from the discussion is: the kernel. Trying to issue it form userspace (iff your shutdown(8) implementation do so) will now result in a big fat warning, until these compatibility measures will be dropped from the kernel (soon or later). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: > Francesco Pretto wrote: > > 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. > >> > >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 > >> > >> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need > >> userland shutdown(8) update. > >> > >> -- > >> tejun > >> > > > > Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i > > didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can > > confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I > > can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the > > mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). > > Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. > > http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html There's a typo.. "Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it." should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat (no 's' after module) Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Why? (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) Why on _earth_ does complicating software suspend add extra requirements to actual shutdown? Since when does the shutdown command have to enumerate attached block devices? If anything this would belong in umount -a, but that doesn't care about the hardware of the underlying block devices and SHOULDN'T... I'm confused. Could someone please explain? Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why can't libata work as well as the old ide driver. My $.02 Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Hello, Rob Landley wrote: > Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss > and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song > and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: > For what i understood, there were a misunderstanding caused by the > wrong assumption that shutdown(8) implementations were issuing > STANDBYNOW on all hard disk devices on the system (indistinctly from > the interface, old-ide/libata/scsi). The fact is that sysvinit and > others actually do something with the old interface /proc/ide, trying > to spindown the hard disks. This worked only on systems using the old > ide/ata drivers because kernel prior to 2.6.22rc1 didn't even have the > necessary feature to spindown hard disks using the libata or the scsi > interface. > > Hopefully, with the patch in discussion, there will be an happy ending > with: > > - sysvinit and derived implementations: > if ( old ide/ata drivers are used ) > {continue to do the old userland spindown mechanism with /proc/ide; } > // else > // { do nothing; } > reboot(); > > - everyone else: > // continue to do nothing :-) > reboot(); Yeap, exactly. The patch has been accepted, I'll update the web page soon. > If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that > is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a > fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way > is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to > kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility > options. It does exist. It's my primary testing machine - a debian installation which doesn't get updated too often. The only problem is that I'm half globe away from that machine until the end of the month. So, anyways, things are looking much brighter now. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Dave Jones wrote: > There's a typo.. > > "Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it > does, write 0 to it." > > should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat Right, thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/16, Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) For what i understood, there were a misunderstanding caused by the wrong assumption that shutdown(8) implementations were issuing STANDBYNOW on all hard disk devices on the system (indistinctly from the interface, old-ide/libata/scsi). The fact is that sysvinit and others actually do something with the old interface /proc/ide, trying to spindown the hard disks. This worked only on systems using the old ide/ata drivers because kernel prior to 2.6.22rc1 didn't even have the necessary feature to spindown hard disks using the libata or the scsi interface. Hopefully, with the patch in discussion, there will be an happy ending with: - sysvinit and derived implementations: if ( old ide/ata drivers are used ) {continue to do the old userland spindown mechanism with /proc/ide; } // else // { do nothing; } reboot(); - everyone else: // continue to do nothing :-) reboot(); If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility options. [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18846 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/16, Rob Landley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) For what i understood, there were a misunderstanding caused by the wrong assumption that shutdown(8) implementations were issuing STANDBYNOW on all hard disk devices on the system (indistinctly from the interface, old-ide/libata/scsi). The fact is that sysvinit and others actually do something with the old interface /proc/ide, trying to spindown the hard disks. This worked only on systems using the old ide/ata drivers because kernel prior to 2.6.22rc1 didn't even have the necessary feature to spindown hard disks using the libata or the scsi interface. Hopefully, with the patch in discussion, there will be an happy ending with: - sysvinit and derived implementations: if ( old ide/ata drivers are used ) {continue to do the old userland spindown mechanism with /proc/ide; } // else // { do nothing; } reboot(); - everyone else: // continue to do nothing :-) reboot(); If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility options. [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18846 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: For what i understood, there were a misunderstanding caused by the wrong assumption that shutdown(8) implementations were issuing STANDBYNOW on all hard disk devices on the system (indistinctly from the interface, old-ide/libata/scsi). The fact is that sysvinit and others actually do something with the old interface /proc/ide, trying to spindown the hard disks. This worked only on systems using the old ide/ata drivers because kernel prior to 2.6.22rc1 didn't even have the necessary feature to spindown hard disks using the libata or the scsi interface. Hopefully, with the patch in discussion, there will be an happy ending with: - sysvinit and derived implementations: if ( old ide/ata drivers are used ) {continue to do the old userland spindown mechanism with /proc/ide; } // else // { do nothing; } reboot(); - everyone else: // continue to do nothing :-) reboot(); Yeap, exactly. The patch has been accepted, I'll update the web page soon. If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility options. It does exist. It's my primary testing machine - a debian installation which doesn't get updated too often. The only problem is that I'm half globe away from that machine until the end of the month. So, anyways, things are looking much brighter now. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Dave Jones wrote: There's a typo.. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat Right, thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Hello, Rob Landley wrote: Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rob Landley wrote: On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html There's a typo.. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat (no 's' after module) Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Why? (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) Why on _earth_ does complicating software suspend add extra requirements to actual shutdown? Since when does the shutdown command have to enumerate attached block devices? If anything this would belong in umount -a, but that doesn't care about the hardware of the underlying block devices and SHOULDN'T... I'm confused. Could someone please explain? Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why can't libata work as well as the old ide driver. My $.02 Steve -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin) The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/16, Stephen Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: I'm confused. Could someone please explain? I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why can't libata work as well as the old ide driver. Read my reply to that post. To summarize: libata, prior to 2.6.22rc1, lacked the feature to spindown the hard disk. The last discussion was about who's responsable to issue the STANDBYNOW command to the hard disk. Response from the discussion is: the kernel. Trying to issue it form userspace (iff your shutdown(8) implementation do so) will now result in a big fat warning, until these compatibility measures will be dropped from the kernel (soon or later). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 5:15 am, Francesco Pretto wrote: - everyone else: // continue to do nothing :-) reboot(); That would be cool, but the impression I got from http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html was that shutdown commands were supposed to _add_ quiescing of drives in order to avoid emergency head parking on poweroff. That article says: Distros should update their shutdown(8) to do the followings. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. For each libata harddisk Check whether /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop exists. If it doesn't, synchronize cache and spin the disk down as before. If it does, do nothing and continue to the next disk. The file is also accessible as /sys/block/sdX/device/scsi_disk:*/manage_start_stop. You're saying all this is to work around kernels _before_ 2.6.22, and instead of updating your shutdown you could just either update the kernel instead? If exists some, at this point, exotic shutdown(8) implementation that is trying to issue STANDBYBOW on libata/scsi devices, it will get a fat warning. The warning could also state that the only supported way is to leave complete responsibility of spinning down the hard disks to kernel, so eventually it could be cleaned of checks and compatibility options. I'm all for leaving this to the kernel. I play in the embedded space a lot, so the less I can get away with doing, the better. :) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 7:41 am, Tejun Heo wrote: Hello, Rob Landley wrote: Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Yeap, definitely a bug in the kernel and we're trying to fix it. Just for the record, we have _always_ issued FLUSH CACHE, so there hasn't been and won't be any data loss problem. The data loss problem was mentioned as why we can't do things completely inside kernel without updating userland shutdown(8) which issues STANDBYNOW. Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel power down the darn hardware? Woot, Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 9:49 am, Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/16, Stephen Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: I'm confused. Could someone please explain? I agree. This didn't happen when I was just using the ide driver, why can't libata work as well as the old ide driver. Read my reply to that post. To summarize: libata, prior to 2.6.22rc1, lacked the feature to spindown the hard disk. The last discussion was about who's responsable to issue the STANDBYNOW command to the hard disk. Response from the discussion is: the kernel. Trying to issue it form userspace (iff your shutdown(8) implementation do so) will now result in a big fat warning, until these compatibility measures will be dropped from the kernel (soon or later). The last bit was what threw me. It seemed that the kernel was changed to do the right thing, but only as a compatability measure that would be dropped because userspace should be changed to start doing it (which seemed crazy). It seems that the _warning_ is the compatability measure that will be dropped (or perhaps the ability for userspace to do the wrong thing at all?), and the kernel will continue to DTRT. It's a bit confusing for those of us coming in late in the discussion. :) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel power down the darn hardware? Yes, for *all* SCSI disk devices, libata or not. But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown on shutdown(8) if you can... -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wednesday 16 May 2007 8:58 pm, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: Ok, so the change is to get shutdown to _stop_ doing something stupid (spinning down the disk without first flushing the cache), and the correct thing for shutdown to do is keep its' mitts off the thing and let the kernel power down the darn hardware? Yes, for *all* SCSI disk devices, libata or not. I realize that this time next year it won't be possible to use a ramdisk or a network block device without going through the SCSI layer, but while it remains an option I'm relishing _not_ using it, thanks. But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown on shutdown(8) if you can... Or (and this is just a thought), you could upgrade your kernel so it correctly handles your hardware, treating this just like any other driver bug or other lack of proper hardware support in the history of Linux. (Back when APM couldn't power off the machine at the end of the shutdown sequence, did we modify shutdown to try to work around this, or did we fix it in the kernel so it worked?) Why does everybody want to shoehorn everything through the SCSI layer, anyway? Last I checked you didn't have to spin down a USB flash key. If SATA is SCSI, what the heck is SAS? (Answer: a cynical marketing hack to bleed SCSI bigots for the huge margins they've always been bled for. But oh well.) It would be hilarious if I didn't have to put up with it renumbering my devices and imposing requirements for hardware I haven't got on hardware I have got... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Wed, 16 May 2007, Rob Landley wrote: But you need to detect if the kernel has proper SCSI device shutdown support, because if it does not, you have to do a cache flush and spindown on shutdown(8) if you can... Or (and this is just a thought), you could upgrade your kernel so it correctly handles your hardware, treating this just like any other driver bug or other The distros can't update kernels that easily on their stable branches. And in the userland side, we are not breaking things any further for users of kernels before 2.6.22 anyway. Don't expect shutdown(8) to remove support for 2.6.22 any time soon, at least in Debian. That will happen only when we are forced by some other reason to completely break compatibility with such kernels. Last I checked you didn't have to spin down a USB flash key. If SATA is But you have to spin down an USB HD... el-cheapo USB enclosures will NOT do it for you. It is not an easy problem. SCSI, what the heck is SAS? (Answer: a cynical marketing hack to bleed SCSI bigots for the huge margins they've always been bled for. But oh well.) It Actually, in my limited experience, SAS is marginally less crappy than SATA, and has a higher MTBF, probably because the manufacturers try to cut less corners. But if one can get high-quality SATA drives (where?!), I don't know why SAS would be superior to SATA. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: > On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: > > Francesco Pretto wrote: > > > 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > >> Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. > > >> > > >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 > > >> > > >> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need > > >> userland shutdown(8) update. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> tejun > > >> > > > > > > Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i > > > didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can > > > confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I > > > can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the > > > mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). > > > > Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. > > > > http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html > > There's a typo.. > > "Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it." > > should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat > > (no 's' after module) Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Why? (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) Why on _earth_ does complicating software suspend add extra requirements to actual shutdown? Since when does the shutdown command have to enumerate attached block devices? If anything this would belong in umount -a, but that doesn't care about the hardware of the underlying block devices and SHOULDN'T... I'm confused. Could someone please explain? Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: > Francesco Pretto wrote: > > 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. > >> > >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 > >> > >> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need > >> userland shutdown(8) update. > >> > >> -- > >> tejun > >> > > > > Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i > > didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can > > confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I > > can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the > > mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). > > Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. > > http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html There's a typo.. "Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it." should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat (no 's' after module) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Hello, Henrique. Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Mon, 14 May 2007, Francesco Pretto wrote: >> Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van >> Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. > > For all Debian sysvinit issues, please send email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (added to CC). > > For the Debian sysvinit crew: Guys, have a look at > http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html. We need to act on it, and also file a > bug on all of our current kernels (poweroff causes minor but accumulating- > over-time damage to all hardware under control of libata). This is really > something we should be trying to fix on our 2.6.18 kernels and stable > sysvinit. > >> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 >> [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 There have been further developments, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18823 (bugfix) http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18846 (in discussion) The second patch makes libata turn off the warning message and just issue STANDBYNOW without userland modification, iff userland halt/shutdown doesn't issue STANDBYNOW during shutdown. I'm not sure whether this will be accepted or not. It makes the change much less intrusive for distros which don't issue STANDBYNOW from userland but disks will always do emergency-unload on all kernels with this problem. > Tejun, am I right to assume that any servers with self-contained SCSI disks > (i.e. that are not plugged into externally powered drive enclosures, etc) > also get the emergency head unloads when they are powered off? AFAIK, yes, all SCSI disks attached to a single host and shares power on/off status will do emergency unload on poweroff. In the updated kernel, this is controlled by the following sysfs node. /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop. It defaults to 1 for libata devices and 0 for all others. Echoing 1 to it makes the sd driver spindown the device on suspend to ram/disk and poweroff. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Francesco Pretto wrote: > Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van > Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. For all Debian sysvinit issues, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (added to CC). For the Debian sysvinit crew: Guys, have a look at http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html. We need to act on it, and also file a bug on all of our current kernels (poweroff causes minor but accumulating- over-time damage to all hardware under control of libata). This is really something we should be trying to fix on our 2.6.18 kernels and stable sysvinit. > [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 > [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 Tejun, am I right to assume that any servers with self-contained SCSI disks (i.e. that are not plugged into externally powered drive enclosures, etc) also get the emergency head unloads when they are powered off? -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: > 2007/5/14, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. >> >> http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html >> >> -- >> tejun >> > > Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van > Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. > > [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 > [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 Thanks a lot. I've notified suse. I'll ask Jeff whether rh is notified. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/14, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html -- tejun Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 Thanks a lot. I've notified suse. I'll ask Jeff whether rh is notified. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Francesco Pretto wrote: Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. For all Debian sysvinit issues, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (added to CC). For the Debian sysvinit crew: Guys, have a look at http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html. We need to act on it, and also file a bug on all of our current kernels (poweroff causes minor but accumulating- over-time damage to all hardware under control of libata). This is really something we should be trying to fix on our 2.6.18 kernels and stable sysvinit. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 Tejun, am I right to assume that any servers with self-contained SCSI disks (i.e. that are not plugged into externally powered drive enclosures, etc) also get the emergency head unloads when they are powered off? -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Hello, Henrique. Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007, Francesco Pretto wrote: Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. For all Debian sysvinit issues, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (added to CC). For the Debian sysvinit crew: Guys, have a look at http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html. We need to act on it, and also file a bug on all of our current kernels (poweroff causes minor but accumulating- over-time damage to all hardware under control of libata). This is really something we should be trying to fix on our 2.6.18 kernels and stable sysvinit. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 There have been further developments, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18823 (bugfix) http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18846 (in discussion) The second patch makes libata turn off the warning message and just issue STANDBYNOW without userland modification, iff userland halt/shutdown doesn't issue STANDBYNOW during shutdown. I'm not sure whether this will be accepted or not. It makes the change much less intrusive for distros which don't issue STANDBYNOW from userland but disks will always do emergency-unload on all kernels with this problem. Tejun, am I right to assume that any servers with self-contained SCSI disks (i.e. that are not plugged into externally powered drive enclosures, etc) also get the emergency head unloads when they are powered off? AFAIK, yes, all SCSI disks attached to a single host and shares power on/off status will do emergency unload on poweroff. In the updated kernel, this is controlled by the following sysfs node. /sys/class/scsi_disk/h:c:i:l/manage_start_stop. It defaults to 1 for libata devices and 0 for all others. Echoing 1 to it makes the sd driver spindown the device on suspend to ram/disk and poweroff. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html There's a typo.. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat (no 's' after module) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 5:08 pm, Dave Jones wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 07:32:43PM +0200, Tejun Heo wrote: Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html There's a typo.. Check whether /sys/modules/libata/parameters/spindown_compat exists. If it does, write 0 to it. should be /sys/module/libata/parameters/spindown_compat (no 's' after module) Um, hang on. So libata can't reliably turn the system off without data loss and potential damage to hardware unless userspace goes through a special song and dance? And this is _not_ considered a defect in the kernel? Why? (Is there any other piece of hardware that needs userspace to quiesce it just so the _off_switch_ can take effect? Yes, I read both the gmane thread and the linux-ata.org link. I used to maintain the busybox halt/reboot/poweroff commands, although I don't anymore. That just called reboot(), and this worked.) Why on _earth_ does complicating software suspend add extra requirements to actual shutdown? Since when does the shutdown command have to enumerate attached block devices? If anything this would belong in umount -a, but that doesn't care about the hardware of the underlying block devices and SHOULDN'T... I'm confused. Could someone please explain? Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/14, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html -- tejun Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: > 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. >> >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 >> >> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need >> userland shutdown(8) update. >> >> -- >> tejun >> > > Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i > didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can > confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I > can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the > mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/5/4, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/14, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay, the patch made upstream and webpage posted. http://linux-ata.org/shutdown.html -- tejun Ubuntu [1] ang Gentoo [2] bugs opened. Sent a mail to Miquel van Smoorenburg, dev of sysvinit. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/114683 [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178559 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: > Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i > didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can > confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I > can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the > mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). It hasn't generated too much response yet. Anyways, yeap, merging it for 2.6.22 is definitely the plan. This thing can shorten lifespan of harddisks. :-( I'll let you know if something changes. Thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/4, Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/5/4, Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). Francesco - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: Ok, i can't understand if the patch will be included in 2.6.22 (i didn't see it in the Andrew Morton merge plan). However, if you can confirm the inclusion, i can send bug reports for ubuntu and gentoo. I can even send an email to Miquel van Smoorenburg, who should be the mainstream sysvinit developer (and probably the last maintainer). It hasn't generated too much response yet. Anyways, yeap, merging it for 2.6.22 is definitely the plan. This thing can shorten lifespan of harddisks. :-( I'll let you know if something changes. Thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Phillip Susi wrote: > Did anything ever come of this? We still have users complaining about > this. Does this patch resolve the issue? I can't seem to load it up > right now; the site says it is down for maintenance. Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Did anything ever come of this? We still have users complaining about this. Does this patch resolve the issue? I can't seem to load it up right now; the site says it is down for maintenance. Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/2/22, Robert Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there: i'm starting to become frustrated... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Did anything ever come of this? We still have users complaining about this. Does this patch resolve the issue? I can't seem to load it up right now; the site says it is down for maintenance. Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/2/22, Robert Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there: i'm starting to become frustrated... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Phillip Susi wrote: Did anything ever come of this? We still have users complaining about this. Does this patch resolve the issue? I can't seem to load it up right now; the site says it is down for maintenance. Yeap, the third iteration of the patch just got submitted. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/18485 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an easy way out. We'll need userland shutdown(8) update. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/2/22, Robert Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there... Hi, I just wanted to say that I'm another user having this issue. I have a Toshiba M55-S3314 which is also making the same noise on shutdown. I have heard it from Ubuntu 5.04 on to Feisty Fawn Herd 4 (which is using the 2.6.20-9 kernel). I had installed the newest version of Sidux the other night, with the 2.6.20 kernel, and it didn't seem to do it. But then I tried it with Feisty, and at first, it didn't do it. Then I suspended the unit, and it came back fine; then I hibernated the unit; it came up ok, but after that, it's making the noise again every time. So I have no idea what's causing this. I hope that somebody can figure this one out...for the first time since 1998, I can't use linux on my machine! :-( I can't afford to sacrifice my hard drive... I'm not a programmer, but I'll be more than happy to try out stuff if anybody wants me to, or give logs or whatever. Just tell me what you want and how to get it! Thanks, Dan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: 2007/2/22, Robert Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there... Hi, I just wanted to say that I'm another user having this issue. I have a Toshiba M55-S3314 which is also making the same noise on shutdown. I have heard it from Ubuntu 5.04 on to Feisty Fawn Herd 4 (which is using the 2.6.20-9 kernel). I had installed the newest version of Sidux the other night, with the 2.6.20 kernel, and it didn't seem to do it. But then I tried it with Feisty, and at first, it didn't do it. Then I suspended the unit, and it came back fine; then I hibernated the unit; it came up ok, but after that, it's making the noise again every time. So I have no idea what's causing this. I hope that somebody can figure this one out...for the first time since 1998, I can't use linux on my machine! :-( I can't afford to sacrifice my hard drive... I'm not a programmer, but I'll be more than happy to try out stuff if anybody wants me to, or give logs or whatever. Just tell me what you want and how to get it! Thanks, Dan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Robert Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there: i'm starting to become frustrated... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Robert Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. Was this? http://www.nabble.com/(fwd)--PATCH--sd:-implement-stop_on_shutdown-t3049703.html Not ready for inclusion yet? Tomorrow i'll give it a try, hoping it will apply to my conf. My actually shutdown procedure is to reboot on windows Xp and shutdown from there: i'm starting to become frustrated... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rolf Offermanns wrote: I hear the same strange noise on poweroff (2.6.20 vanilla). This is what I get on my system with ATA_DEBUG and ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG both defined. The system will *not* poweroff with "halt -f" so there was no noise! md: stopping all md devices. Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata1: ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 System halted. If I do a sysrq-o right after this, the above message repeate once more and the system turns off w/o the disturbing noise. For the next messages, I booted the system completely (no init=/bin/sh) and did a "poweroff" at the console prompt after the boot was completed. This time the noise was there. From these traces you can clearly see that no STANDBY IMMEDIATE (command code 0xE0) was issued before the power-off, which is what would prevent this problem. If you wait long enough after halting before you power down, you may not get the noise, since many laptop drives unload the heads after a fairly short period of inactivity, and so the heads are already unloaded when the power is shut off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end matters. For some reason, related to my current distro, i didn't used init=/bin/sh . The full, bloated, log is here http://www.webalice.it/ceztko/log1 (taken from launch of "poweroff"). I can confirm, as Rolf Offermanns noted, that "halt -f" doesn't cut the power. An extract is here. However i'm worried that the log is trunkated. Is netconsole good enough to use in this case? [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 2a 00 07 5b dd 90 00 00 08 [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.052000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.052000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.052000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.052000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x2317000, 0x1000) [17179886.052000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.052000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0x90 0xDD 0x5B [17179886.052000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.052000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xCA [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.052000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.052000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.052000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements [17179886.056000] rc(4351): READ block 309568 on sda6 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 07 5f 96 40 00 00 08 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.056000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.056000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.056000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.056000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x7E992000, 0x1000) [17179886.056000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.056000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0x40 0x96 0x5F [17179886.056000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.056000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.064000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.064000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.064000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements [17179886.064000] S90halt(4351): READ block 307632 on sda6 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 07 5f 8e b0 00 00 08 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.064000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.064000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.064000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.064000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x7CC47000, 0x1000) [17179886.064000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.064000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0xB0 0x8E 0x5F [17179886.064000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.064000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.076000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.076000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.076000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Alan wrote: >> However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i >> could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me >> to precise configuration options. > > You grabbed a lot of junk but you did grab this line > > [17179682.56] Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: > > Which means sd_sync_cache got called and flushed the data to disk. > > I don't think you can do the other needed debugging without a recompile. > > The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end > matters. You may well want to build a kernel this way, boot it with > init=/bin/sh and then at the shell prompt do "halt -f" so you don't get > too much debug > > In include/linux/libata.h change > > #undef ATA_DEBUG/* debugging output */ > #undef ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG/* yet more debugging output */ > > so both of the undef-s read define > > #define ATA_DEBUG > #define ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG > > and recompile I hear the same strange noise on poweroff (2.6.20 vanilla). This is what I get on my system with ATA_DEBUG and ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG both defined. The system will *not* poweroff with "halt -f" so there was no noise! md: stopping all md devices. Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata1: ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 System halted. If I do a sysrq-o right after this, the above message repeate once more and the system turns off w/o the disturbing noise. For the next messages, I booted the system completely (no init=/bin/sh) and did a "poweroff" at the console prompt after the boot was completed. This time the noise was there. ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 04 b5 d4 c8 00 00 08 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x39A63000, 0x1000) ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0xC8 0xD4 0xB5 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE4 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 Power down. HTH, Rolf - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: Yes, windows XP could handle better the power button pressed event (causing the hd not to go to emergency parking, even when forced shut-down, most of the times). But regarding a normal shut-down cycle, isn't this a regression? You don't solve a regression adding a feature (IMHO). It's a feature that's in drivers/ide (I believe) but isn't in libata or the SCSI layer. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
> However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i > could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me > to precise configuration options. You grabbed a lot of junk but you did grab this line [17179682.56] Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: Which means sd_sync_cache got called and flushed the data to disk. I don't think you can do the other needed debugging without a recompile. The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end matters. You may well want to build a kernel this way, boot it with init=/bin/sh and then at the shell prompt do "halt -f" so you don't get too much debug In include/linux/libata.h change #undef ATA_DEBUG/* debugging output */ #undef ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG/* yet more debugging output */ so both of the undef-s read define #define ATA_DEBUG #define ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG and recompile - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Robert Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: And yes, this is something we need to deal with. I don't think that disks that use contact start-stop heads care so much, but disks that use load-unload heads (like most laptop drives, it seems) generally quote a much lower cycle lifetime for "emergency unloads" caused by power loss than by normal unloads done while power is still applied. It's important enough that in some cases, like the Compaq X1000-series laptop I have, the BIOS appears to have a power button handler that spins down the drive before power-down when the power button is pressed and an ACPI OS isn't running. (Holding the button down when an ACPI OS is running just forces the power off, then you get the clunk from the drive..) Windows XP (and even as far back as Windows 98) get this right, surely we can do as well :-) Yes, windows XP could handle better the power button pressed event (causing the hd not to go to emergency parking, even when forced shut-down, most of the times). But regarding a normal shut-down cycle, isn't this a regression? You don't solve a regression adding a feature (IMHO). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Robert Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And yes, this is something we need to deal with. I don't think that disks that use contact start-stop heads care so much, but disks that use load-unload heads (like most laptop drives, it seems) generally quote a much lower cycle lifetime for emergency unloads caused by power loss than by normal unloads done while power is still applied. It's important enough that in some cases, like the Compaq X1000-series laptop I have, the BIOS appears to have a power button handler that spins down the drive before power-down when the power button is pressed and an ACPI OS isn't running. (Holding the button down when an ACPI OS is running just forces the power off, then you get the clunk from the drive..) Windows XP (and even as far back as Windows 98) get this right, surely we can do as well :-) Yes, windows XP could handle better the power button pressed event (causing the hd not to go to emergency parking, even when forced shut-down, most of the times). But regarding a normal shut-down cycle, isn't this a regression? You don't solve a regression adding a feature (IMHO). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me to precise configuration options. You grabbed a lot of junk but you did grab this line [17179682.56] Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: Which means sd_sync_cache got called and flushed the data to disk. I don't think you can do the other needed debugging without a recompile. The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end matters. You may well want to build a kernel this way, boot it with init=/bin/sh and then at the shell prompt do halt -f so you don't get too much debug In include/linux/libata.h change #undef ATA_DEBUG/* debugging output */ #undef ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG/* yet more debugging output */ so both of the undef-s read define #define ATA_DEBUG #define ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG and recompile - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Francesco Pretto wrote: Yes, windows XP could handle better the power button pressed event (causing the hd not to go to emergency parking, even when forced shut-down, most of the times). But regarding a normal shut-down cycle, isn't this a regression? You don't solve a regression adding a feature (IMHO). It's a feature that's in drivers/ide (I believe) but isn't in libata or the SCSI layer. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Alan wrote: However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me to precise configuration options. You grabbed a lot of junk but you did grab this line [17179682.56] Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: Which means sd_sync_cache got called and flushed the data to disk. I don't think you can do the other needed debugging without a recompile. The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end matters. You may well want to build a kernel this way, boot it with init=/bin/sh and then at the shell prompt do halt -f so you don't get too much debug In include/linux/libata.h change #undef ATA_DEBUG/* debugging output */ #undef ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG/* yet more debugging output */ so both of the undef-s read define #define ATA_DEBUG #define ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG and recompile I hear the same strange noise on poweroff (2.6.20 vanilla). This is what I get on my system with ATA_DEBUG and ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG both defined. The system will *not* poweroff with halt -f so there was no noise! md: stopping all md devices. Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata1: ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 System halted. If I do a sysrq-o right after this, the above message repeate once more and the system turns off w/o the disturbing noise. For the next messages, I booted the system completely (no init=/bin/sh) and did a poweroff at the console prompt after the boot was completed. This time the noise was there. ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 04 b5 d4 c8 00 00 08 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x39A63000, 0x1000) ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0xC8 0xD4 0xB5 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE4 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 3 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 Power down. HTH, Rolf - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
2007/2/22, Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The following will generate a vast amount of debug of which only the end matters. For some reason, related to my current distro, i didn't used init=/bin/sh . The full, bloated, log is here http://www.webalice.it/ceztko/log1 (taken from launch of poweroff). I can confirm, as Rolf Offermanns noted, that halt -f doesn't cut the power. An extract is here. However i'm worried that the log is trunkated. Is netconsole good enough to use in this case? [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 2a 00 07 5b dd 90 00 00 08 [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.052000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.052000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.052000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.052000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x2317000, 0x1000) [17179886.052000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.052000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0x90 0xDD 0x5B [17179886.052000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.052000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xCA [17179886.052000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.052000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.052000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.052000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements [17179886.056000] rc(4351): READ block 309568 on sda6 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 07 5f 96 40 00 00 08 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.056000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.056000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.056000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.056000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x7E992000, 0x1000) [17179886.056000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.056000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0x40 0x96 0x5F [17179886.056000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.056000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 [17179886.056000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.064000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.064000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.064000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements [17179886.064000] S90halt(4351): READ block 307632 on sda6 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 28 00 07 5f 8e b0 00 00 08 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_translate: ENTER [17179886.064000] scsi_10_lba_len: ten-byte command [17179886.064000] ata_sg_setup: ENTER, ata1 [17179886.064000] ata_sg_setup: 1 sg elements mapped [17179886.064000] ata_fill_sg: PRD[0] = (0x7CC47000, 0x1000) [17179886.064000] ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 [17179886.064000] ata_tf_load_pio: feat 0x0 nsect 0x8 lba 0xB0 0x8E 0x5F [17179886.064000] ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xE7 [17179886.064000] ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xC8 [17179886.064000] ata_scsi_translate: EXIT [17179886.076000] ata_host_intr: ata1: host_stat 0x24 [17179886.076000] ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 3 (dev_stat 0x50) [17179886.076000] ata_sg_clean: unmapping 1 sg elements - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Rolf Offermanns wrote: I hear the same strange noise on poweroff (2.6.20 vanilla). This is what I get on my system with ATA_DEBUG and ATA_VERBOSE_DEBUG both defined. The system will *not* poweroff with halt -f so there was no noise! md: stopping all md devices. Synchronizing SCSI cache for disk sda: ata_scsi_dump_cdb: CDB (1:0,0,0) 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ata_scsi_translate: ENTER ata1: ata_dev_select: ENTER, ata1: device 0, wait 1 ata_tf_load_pio: device 0xA0 ata_exec_command_pio: ata1: cmd 0xE7 ata_scsi_translate: EXIT ata_host_intr: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 ata_hsm_move: ata1: protocol 1 task_state 2 (dev_stat 0x50) ata_hsm_move: ata1: dev 0 command complete, drv_stat 0x50 System halted. If I do a sysrq-o right after this, the above message repeate once more and the system turns off w/o the disturbing noise. For the next messages, I booted the system completely (no init=/bin/sh) and did a poweroff at the console prompt after the boot was completed. This time the noise was there. From these traces you can clearly see that no STANDBY IMMEDIATE (command code 0xE0) was issued before the power-off, which is what would prevent this problem. If you wait long enough after halting before you power down, you may not get the noise, since many laptop drives unload the heads after a fairly short period of inactivity, and so the heads are already unloaded when the power is shut off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Robert Hancock wrote: > Robert Hancock wrote: >> Alan wrote: >>> Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or >>> turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache >>> flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. >>> >>> Alan >> >> I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal >> shutdown, do we? >> >> Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START >> STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache >> before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. I just came back from LSF and lunar new year's holidays and need a bit more time to get to it. I'll get to it in one or two weeks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Robert Hancock wrote: Alan wrote: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. And yes, this is something we need to deal with. I don't think that disks that use contact start-stop heads care so much, but disks that use load-unload heads (like most laptop drives, it seems) generally quote a much lower cycle lifetime for "emergency unloads" caused by power loss than by normal unloads done while power is still applied. It's important enough that in some cases, like the Compaq X1000-series laptop I have, the BIOS appears to have a power button handler that spins down the drive before power-down when the power button is pressed and an ACPI OS isn't running. (Holding the button down when an ACPI OS is running just forces the power off, then you get the clunk from the drive..) Windows XP (and even as far back as Windows 98) get this right, surely we can do as well :-) -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Alan wrote: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
(I'm sorry if the thread breaks, i'm not subscribed) 2007/2/21, Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan Hi! Using netconsole, i was able to capture some printk output. Following some advices in the net (forum threads about similar problems), i did this to enable more verbose printk printing: echo 8 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/block_dump This was the result: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=10492=view However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me to precise configuration options. Thanks for your response. Francesco Pretto - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
(I'm sorry if the thread breaks, i'm not subscribed) 2007/2/21, Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan Hi! Using netconsole, i was able to capture some printk output. Following some advices in the net (forum threads about similar problems), i did this to enable more verbose printk printing: echo 8 /proc/sys/kernel/printk echo 1 /proc/sys/vm/block_dump This was the result: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=10492action=view However, i'm not still sure i enabled as much debugging info as i could in the kernel configuration. If you need more, please point me to precise configuration options. Thanks for your response. Francesco Pretto - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Alan wrote: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Robert Hancock wrote: Alan wrote: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. And yes, this is something we need to deal with. I don't think that disks that use contact start-stop heads care so much, but disks that use load-unload heads (like most laptop drives, it seems) generally quote a much lower cycle lifetime for emergency unloads caused by power loss than by normal unloads done while power is still applied. It's important enough that in some cases, like the Compaq X1000-series laptop I have, the BIOS appears to have a power button handler that spins down the drive before power-down when the power button is pressed and an ACPI OS isn't running. (Holding the button down when an ACPI OS is running just forces the power off, then you get the clunk from the drive..) Windows XP (and even as far back as Windows 98) get this right, surely we can do as well :-) -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird hard disk noise on shutdown (bug #7674)
Robert Hancock wrote: Robert Hancock wrote: Alan wrote: Stick some printk calls in drivers/ata/libata-eh.c in ata_eh_suspend, or turn on all the ATA debug and shutdown, the code should issue a cache flush followed by a standbynow1 command for each disk. Alan I believe it runs on suspend, but we don't run that code on normal shutdown, do we? Tejun Heo had a patch for sd that could (optionally) trigger a START STOP UNIT command to spin the disk down after synchronizing the cache before shutdown, but I haven't heard anything of it lately.. I just came back from LSF and lunar new year's holidays and need a bit more time to get to it. I'll get to it in one or two weeks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/