Re: OpenBSD
Agreed, says Jason running a PII 300MHz with 512MB RAM. =) Chad wrote: On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:19, Jason wrote: Couldn't pass up on this ;)...Sure Gentoo takes a bit of time and effort to install but it's worth it. You get a stable system without the bloat. Optimizing package is easy, you simply have to edit one file and there's plenty of tips on how to do it. And optimization does work. I've got an Athlon XP 1600+ and Gentoo starts KDE in at least 2/3s the time of Mandrake. This is rather relative, your still dealing with a fairly decent Machine there. An athlonXP is alot faster than my k6-2 450Mhz it took me 8 hours to compile Gnome 2 when it came out with out any fancy flags. And the Kernel it self takes 40mins even when I've cut it down to only the modules and bits required to run on my computer! The kernels I compile won't run on any other machine unless they have the same cpu, mobo, sound card, network card and so forth. Also Athlon XP's get one of the biggest boost's when compiled for (I've heard figures in the area of 30% mentioned for some apps.) However for older computer K6-2's k6-3's pentium II etc the speed boost is not noticeable compared to runing packages compiled for i586 (Mandrake's target). As for things like boost speed that is less to do with recompiling the machine for your cpu than it has to doing with you setting up the machine with only those things you need enabled or installed. Package based distros are designed to be run on as many machine as possible remeber and therefore trade some speed for portability. Several times it's been discused moving Mandrake to an i686 target in Cooker but it's allways been rejected as testing has not revealed enough of a boost and after that level you start having to compile for indiviual chips (eg either P4 or Athlon the only exceptions being some multimedia stuff which gets a nice boost from MMX and SSE). Any way if you real want to recompile mandrake linux for your computer it's easy enough simply mirror the src.rpm directory or cvs set up your .rpmrc file with the optomisations you want and start the job!after compileing you'll have a full verion of Mandrake compiled for what every you set the flags to. Also you'll be able to distribute this version to any other Machine you or friends have with the same or similar specs. As well as creating your own isos and every thing all the tools are avaliable. So yeah, gentoo takes a lot of time and effort to install, but once you've installed it you have a system that is easily maintanable (you don't have to reinstall the distro everytime a new release comes out), that has the best package management system ( :) ) and one that is fast. Perhaps but my computer will spend less time installing the new version than it will compiling the new apps as they're updated. And I've never had problems with urpmi. And I'd bet if you installed a version of Gentoo and a version of Debian then waited to the next version came out and updated using there respective methods apt-get vs emerge (or what ever it's called) that debian would be updated quicker and with less probems. I'm quite happy to admit that gentoo is one of the better distros for those with decent computers but for those of use with 3-4 year old or older machines a package based distro is alot lot better! Chad PS please do not use this as an excuse to start a flame war!
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
- Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... -Nick.
Re: OpenBSD
If you dont want bloat then the flamesuitdistro to use s LFS :) /flamesuit -Paul
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: WP8 cannot be given to the charity in question because it's not free AFAIK. Correct, but there are abundant copies on old Linux distros. And one could copy those distros... (It's on SuSE 6.2, 6.3, 7.0, not on 7.2 on; the pay section of SuSE's ftp server doesn't seem to have it though - maybe copying the distribution said it was subject to copy conditions of some of the commercial software - damn) Must check my archive copies of SuSE. IIRC, WP8 could be downloaded at no cost, but had to be registered. I am not certain if this still can be done. Phil. -- Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sell GNU/Linux GNU/Hurd CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
I would like to bring a server along to install debian on. does anyone have any disks. It has SCSI so i don't know how to go about it. I just want some Advanced Guidance |Ben Nick Brettell said: - Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... -Nick. /--\ | Ben Devine | |Web Designer | Linux Lover| | | | PHP,HTML,MySQL,Javascript,CSS | | DHTML,Flash,Actionscript| | | | bendevine.com| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \--/
Re: Hardware
how much would it cost if i bought ten im going to make a distubuted computing cluster |Thanks Ben Adam said: Hello all, Apologies if this sort of post is not allowed I have about 15 boxes that I want to get rid of, brought them awhile ago and realise that They aint quite what I need. Digital PC3000 200MHZ MMX 64MB RAM 10/100 NIC FDD 2Gig HDD Keyboard Mouse Just wondering what they are worth, and if anybody wants any. Would make good firewalls, proxy servers etc. Even dumb terminals. Cheers Adam /--\ | Ben Devine | |Web Designer | Linux Lover| | | | PHP,HTML,MySQL,Javascript,CSS | | DHTML,Flash,Actionscript| | | | bendevine.com| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \--/
Re: OpenBSD
On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 07:25:11AM +1200, Simon Hansman wrote: And optimization does work. I've got an Athlon XP 1600+ and Gentoo starts KDE in at least 2/3s the time of Mandrake. It may start faster, but this very little to do with compiler optimizations. What else is different on the system? Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:26, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... What distro? What laptop? Make sure that either the apm module is loaded as soon as poss in the boot up sequence, or compiled into the kernel. Laptops don't consume ( much ) power, so they don't count towards the numbers limit. -- C. S.
Oops My Bad
dammn i hate it when i reply to the WHOLE list Soz to every one *ben sits on seat in corner*
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:00, you wrote: I would like to bring a server along to install debian on. does anyone have any disks. Yes, as soon as Rik launches the boomerang back home. :-) It has SCSI so i don't know how to go about it. What make / model of host adaptor have you got? I just want some Advanced Guidance Debian installed just fine for me on a SCSI disk. -- C. S.
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
tried installing from knoppix, then apt-get removing the bits you don't want? I have installed debian from scratch before, but not for a while. On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:00:20+1200(NZST) Benjamin Devine[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to bring a server along to install debian on. does anyone have any disks. It has SCSI so i don't know how to go about it. I just want some Advanced Guidance |Ben Nick Brettell said: - Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... -Nick. /--\ | Ben Devine | |Web Designer | Linux Lover| | | | PHP,HTML,MySQL,Javascript,CSS | | DHTML,Flash,Actionscript| | | | bendevine.com| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \--/ --
Re: OpenBSD
I must be an odd one then ...I have built it numerous times on anything from a p120 to my desktop (only a p3 733 sdram baby)(and the first few times were over dialup lol) , I REALLY like the package management though ;-) and like the ability to build an os how I want it . Cheers Dale. On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:31, you wrote: On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:19, Jason wrote: Couldn't pass up on this ;)...Sure Gentoo takes a bit of time and effort to install but it's worth it. You get a stable system without the bloat. Optimizing package is easy, you simply have to edit one file and there's plenty of tips on how to do it. And optimization does work. I've got an Athlon XP 1600+ and Gentoo starts KDE in at least 2/3s the time of Mandrake. This is rather relative, your still dealing with a fairly decent Machine there. An athlonXP is alot faster than my k6-2 450Mhz it took me 8 hours to compile Gnome 2 when it came out with out any fancy flags. And the Kernel it self takes 40mins even when I've cut it down to only the modules and bits required to run on my computer! The kernels I compile won't run on any other machine unless they have the same cpu, mobo, sound card, network card and so forth. Also Athlon XP's get one of the biggest boost's when compiled for (I've heard figures in the area of 30% mentioned for some apps.) However for older computer K6-2's k6-3's pentium II etc the speed boost is not noticeable compared to runing packages compiled for i586 (Mandrake's target). As for things like boost speed that is less to do with recompiling the machine for your cpu than it has to doing with you setting up the machine with only those things you need enabled or installed. Package based distros are designed to be run on as many machine as possible remeber and therefore trade some speed for portability. Several times it's been discused moving Mandrake to an i686 target in Cooker but it's allways been rejected as testing has not revealed enough of a boost and after that level you start having to compile for indiviual chips (eg either P4 or Athlon the only exceptions being some multimedia stuff which gets a nice boost from MMX and SSE). Any way if you real want to recompile mandrake linux for your computer it's easy enough simply mirror the src.rpm directory or cvs set up your .rpmrc file with the optomisations you want and start the job!after compileing you'll have a full verion of Mandrake compiled for what every you set the flags to. Also you'll be able to distribute this version to any other Machine you or friends have with the same or similar specs. As well as creating your own isos and every thing all the tools are avaliable. So yeah, gentoo takes a lot of time and effort to install, but once you've installed it you have a system that is easily maintanable (you don't have to reinstall the distro everytime a new release comes out), that has the best package management system ( :) ) and one that is fast. Perhaps but my computer will spend less time installing the new version than it will compiling the new apps as they're updated. And I've never had problems with urpmi. And I'd bet if you installed a version of Gentoo and a version of Debian then waited to the next version came out and updated using there respective methods apt-get vs emerge (or what ever it's called) that debian would be updated quicker and with less probems. I'm quite happy to admit that gentoo is one of the better distros for those with decent computers but for those of use with 3-4 year old or older machines a package based distro is alot lot better! Chad PS please do not use this as an excuse to start a flame war!
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
thx for the replies Nick i will try that with knoppix but if that doesn't work i will bring it along to the meeting. Thanks ps. C.S you wnated to know what scsi adapter it was adaptec AIC-7850 / AIC-7880 there is two man my footer is way tooo big Nick Rout said: tried installing from knoppix, then apt-get removing the bits you don't want? I have installed debian from scratch before, but not for a while. On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:00:20+1200(NZST) Benjamin Devine[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to bring a server along to install debian on. does anyone have any disks. It has SCSI so i don't know how to go about it. I just want some Advanced Guidance |Ben Nick Brettell said: - Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... -Nick. /--\ | Ben Devine | |Web Designer | Linux Lover| | | | PHP,HTML,MySQL,Javascript,CSS | | DHTML,Flash,Actionscript| | | | bendevine.com| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | \--/
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:40, you wrote: thx for the replies Nick i will try that with knoppix but if that doesn't work i will bring it along to the meeting. Thanks ps. C.S you wnated to know what scsi adapter it was adaptec AIC-7850 / AIC-7880 there is two There is a driver for the AIC-7880 host adaptor. I've used it for years, it works. You'll have no trouble running Debian. man my footer is way tooo big mm -- C. S.
Re: Linux for Windows Programmers
Then there's that monumentally thick Wrox book, Professional Linux Programming. Covers practically everything from cvs to GTK and QT to Postgres to php, etc ... I don't know if it's still being printed though - Wrox was reported to be going through some difficult times. Wesley Parish On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:39, you wrote: I have a SAMS book entitled C for Linux. I can't remember just how advanced/basic it is so I will have a look tonight when I get home and let you know (ISBN number etc). Alan John Carter wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 14:47, Carl Cerecke wrote: John Carter wrote: We have a bunch of highly experienced programmers migrating from Windows-ish world on to Linux. What programming language? C -- Mau e ki, He aha te mea nui? You ask, What is the most important thing? Maku e ki, He tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, It is people, it is people, it is people.
Re: Hardware
How much are they going for? And where would you be - I can't travel outside of CHCH - ain't got no car. Wesley Parish On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:24, Adam wrote: Hello all, Apologies if this sort of post is not allowed I have about 15 boxes that I want to get rid of, brought them awhile ago and realise that They aint quite what I need. Digital PC3000 200MHZ MMX 64MB RAM 10/100 NIC FDD 2Gig HDD Keyboard Mouse Just wondering what they are worth, and if anybody wants any. Would make good firewalls, proxy servers etc. Even dumb terminals. Cheers Adam -- Mau e ki, He aha te mea nui? You ask, What is the most important thing? Maku e ki, He tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, It is people, it is people, it is people.
bootsplash
Hello list! I am trying to get a system similar to MDK's bootsplash working on a knoppix box. Does anyone know where I should start? I get the distinct impression from many manuals that it has something to do with frame buffering. I suspect, given the graphical nature of the Knoppix boot, that it already has the appropriate kernel modules installed, mind you, the hd install is quite different from booting off the CD (less gaudy IMHO). Once I have achieved this, I wonder if I could have a full console in this mode. ie a pretty background image with a console running in a nicely framed box ( NO X server!). Any help would be appreciated, Daniel
Free books for download
http://www.vnunet.de/testticker/freedownloads/freedownloads.asp A new one every 2 days, for a month. The personal firewall's just been - bugger (someone got a copy?) In German. (Hey I don't understand your problem... ;) Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
Must check my archive copies of SuSE. IIRC, WP8 could be downloaded at no cost, but had to be registered. I am not certain if this still can be done. Probably not, and there's the question of whether the downloadable copy could be passed on, but I'd ignore that detail. If you haven't got those old SuSE versions, I have, and as I understand I'm free to make copies. (There is something to be said for distros on CD as opposed to downloading.) As an aside, I've made grepable indices of all SuSE versions I have, should anyone desire to know what's on them. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: bootsplash
I am trying to get a system similar to MDK's bootsplash working on a knoppix box. Does anyone know where I should start? I get the distinct It uses the framebuffer device, probably the vesa one. Install the respective rpms (don't forget the graphics gimmicks) from Mdk or SuSE and recompile. There were warnings about having the framebuffer as a module, so compile it in. This things's been standard in Linux distros for years though. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Linux for Windows Programmers
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 02:41, you wrote: We have a bunch of highly experienced programmers migrating from Windows-ish world on to Linux. Anybody know of any good Linux for Programmers tutorial material. Or Linux, not for Dummies. I found the following books as a good reference for switching: I have these books if you want a quick look. Sams Teach Yourself Linux Programming in 24 Hours Sams Teach Yourself C for Linux Programming in 21 Days (More Basic) Linux Device Drivers Also For cross platform GUI - I highly recommend FLTK it does *nix, OS/2, win, Mac OS X, and even DOS. see http://www.fltk.org/ It is the easiest to use that I have found and has a very small footprint, and is extreamly versatile. Mike. -- Linux Rocks!
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Must check my archive copies of SuSE. IIRC, WP8 could be downloaded at no cost, but had to be registered. I am not certain if this still can be done. Probably not, and there's the question of whether the downloadable copy could be passed on, but I'd ignore that detail. If you haven't got those old SuSE versions, I have, and as I understand I'm free to make copies. (There is something to be said for distros on CD as opposed to downloading.) I still have a copy of the downloadable version. Unfortunately http://linux.corel.com seems to have gone. Registration! Phil. -- Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sell GNU/Linux GNU/Hurd CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
I still have a copy of the downloadable version. Unfortunately http://linux.corel.com seems to have gone. Registration! I never even installed it. Will it not run without registration, i.e. does it require some key to be obtained from somewhere? If so, it's a paperweight. Chances of SCO handing out keys are less than zero... Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: I still have a copy of the downloadable version. Unfortunately http://linux.corel.com seems to have gone. Registration! I never even installed it. Will it not run without registration, i.e. does it require some key to be obtained from somewhere? If so, it's a paperweight. Chances of SCO handing out keys are less than zero... Thirty days before registration is needed. I have a couple of keys somewhere. Phil. -- Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sell GNU/Linux GNU/Hurd CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz
Re: Linux for Windows Programmers
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Michael Pearce wrote: On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 02:41, you wrote: We have a bunch of highly experienced programmers migrating from Windows-ish world on to Linux. Anybody know of any good Linux for Programmers tutorial material. Or Linux, not for Dummies. I found the following books as a good reference for switching: I have these books if you want a quick look. Sams Teach Yourself Linux Programming in 24 Hours Sams Teach Yourself C for Linux Programming in 21 Days (More Basic) Ouch! My personal philosophy is: avoid SAMS :-D Linux Device Drivers Good one but for device drivers only (i.e. advanced topic) Also For cross platform GUI - I highly recommend FLTK it does *nix, OS/2, win, Mac OS X, and even DOS. see http://www.fltk.org/ It is the easiest to use that I have found and has a very small footprint, and is extreamly versatile. There are 3 issues/steps as far as I can see: 1. the Unix design principles and philosophy: e.g. the one program do do one thing well, yes but not always, only for CLI utes; etc. IMHO understanding this topic is particularly important. 2. the Unix/Posix API: it is definitely worth browsing trough: same ones appear in C, Perl, Python etc. ... and even shell. I would include here the IPC and networking topics as well. 3. ... beyond: e.g. GUI apps, daemons, etc. This is a huge area. What I would recommend: - The Art of Unix Programming http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ (free text, in progress) - Linux Application Development http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201308215/mylinupdainsides/002-0546189-1915215 very good introductory text covering a lot AFAIK The Wrox series is also quite good. Beyond these type of books (if you need more info) you probably want to look directly at the reference manuals, HOWTOs and similar. Cheers, -- Ryurick M. Hristev mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer Systems Manager University of Canterbury, Physics Astronomy Dept., New Zealand
Re: OpenBSD
Well, if it's not compile optimizations then I don't know what it is. In both Mandrake and Gentoo I've got dma enabled on my harddrives, the same number of services are running, fam's enabled...Both I login using kdm - and I know Mandrake starts the X server early and starts other services in the background, but even if I wait 10 minutes and then login, Gentoo is still faster. You got to remember it's the whole system that has been optimized, not just KDE. If anyone else has any other suggestions as to why this is happening, please share. Cheers Simon On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:08, Matthew Gregan wrote: On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 07:25:11AM +1200, Simon Hansman wrote: And optimization does work. I've got an Athlon XP 1600+ and Gentoo starts KDE in at least 2/3s the time of Mandrake. It may start faster, but this very little to do with compiler optimizations. What else is different on the system? Cheers, -mjg -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:31, Chad wrote: This is rather relative, your still dealing with a fairly decent Machine there. An athlonXP is alot faster than my k6-2 450Mhz it took me 8 hours to compile Gnome 2 when it came out with out any fancy flags. And the Kernel it self takes 40mins even when I've cut it down to only the modules and bits required to run on my computer! The kernels I compile won't run on any other machine unless they have the same cpu, mobo, sound card, network card and so forthsnip Hi, yeah far enough. On a slower computer Gentoo's probably not the best option (likewise Gentoo may not be the best option on a dialup connection)...But when you upgrade or buy a new one, you'll be able to run Gentoo :). Cheers Simon -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Free books for download
Volker Kuhlmann wrote: http://www.vnunet.de/testticker/freedownloads/freedownloads.asp A new one every 2 days, for a month. The personal firewall's just been - bugger (someone got a copy?) In German. (Hey I don't understand your problem... ;) They're all Sprache: Deutsch Volker, keep an eye on them for us and let us know when a Sprache: Englisch comes along. Thanks, Carl.
Re: Hardware
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 19:03, Benjamin Devine wrote: how much would it cost if i bought ten im going to make a distubuted computing cluster Why did I read that as disturbed computing cluster ?
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
- Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:26, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Christopher Sawtell Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 [...] Members who need help to sort out problems, please make you needs known. I think the capacity of the mains supply limits the number of machines to about 8 or 9 concurrent connections. Is that correct? So it's first come first served. [...] I've still been unable to get the power management on my laptop working under linux, so if anyone could give me a hand with that it would be appreciated... What distro? Mandrake 9.1 What laptop? Its a (fairly new) Dell Inspiron N2800X (I think its called) P4 processor... Make sure that either the apm module is loaded as soon as poss in the boot up sequence, or compiled into the kernel. Hmm, I think it loads fairly early in the boot up. I had asked previously on the list about it but to no avail. Laptops don't consume ( much ) power, so they don't count towards the numbers limit. Yeah, I realised that (I can just run it on battery anyway) but thought I'd mention it anyway. Thanks for the help, -Nick.
Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:13:02 +1200 Nick Brettell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its a (fairly new) Dell Inspiron N2800X (I think its called) P4 processor... It may need acpi turned on in the kernel. I assume you have done the usual google searches? and the linux laptops page? -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:39:41 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, yeah far enough. On a slower computer Gentoo's probably not the best option (likewise Gentoo may not be the best option on a dialup connection)...But when you upgrade or buy a new one, you'll be able to run Gentoo :). Cheers Simon Re dialup, neither is any other distro any good if you rely solely on dialup to install and maintain your distro. People on dialup generally beg/steal/borrow a CD to install. Anyone who wants to do the same with gentoo can do so. Its simply a matter of finding someone with an up to date portage tree and dumping /usr/portage on a cd, then dumping the contents of the cd onto the 56kuser's hard drive. Bang, up to date emerge scripts and source code. I have done this for several people and it saves heaps of time. Then all you have to fear is an update to xfree or kde, which will take a while to download. But it will for binary packages too. Anyway, 56k with gentoo is no nore restrictive than any other distro which gets updated frequently - and face it who wants old versions when updates are released. I see binary distro users fluffing about looking for their distro's binaries for kde-latest when I have done emerge -u world and been running it for days or weeks.
Re: OpenBSD
Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:23, Nick Rout wrote: Re dialup, neither is any other distro any good if you rely solely on dialup to install and maintain your distro. People on dialup generally beg/steal/borrow a CD to install. Anyone who wants to do the same with gentoo can do so. Its simply a matter of finding someone with an up to date portage tree and dumping /usr/portage on a cd, then dumping the contents of the cd onto the 56kuser's hard drive. Bang, up to date emerge scripts and source code. I have done this for several people and it saves heaps of time. Then all you have to fear is an update to xfree or kde, which will take a while to download. But it will for binary packages too. Anyway, 56k with gentoo is no nore restrictive than any other distro which gets updated frequently - and face it who wants old versions when updates are released. I see binary distro users fluffing about looking for their distro's binaries for kde-latest when I have done emerge -u world and been running it for days or weeks. -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:35:29 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) Now having said that,doing _any_ major upgrade over 56k is enought to make you want broadband. That includes windows update thru to any of the free OSes. -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
Yes but you are forgetting the compile time With Mandrake, once I download, I install, with Gentoo, once I download, I compile, THEN install, big difference ona slow box!!! Cheers Jason Simon Hansman wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:23, Nick Rout wrote: Re dialup, neither is any other distro any good if you rely solely on dialup to install and maintain your distro. People on dialup generally beg/steal/borrow a CD to install. Anyone who wants to do the same with gentoo can do so. Its simply a matter of finding someone with an up to date portage tree and dumping /usr/portage on a cd, then dumping the contents of the cd onto the 56kuser's hard drive. Bang, up to date emerge scripts and source code. I have done this for several people and it saves heaps of time. Then all you have to fear is an update to xfree or kde, which will take a while to download. But it will for binary packages too. Anyway, 56k with gentoo is no nore restrictive than any other distro which gets updated frequently - and face it who wants old versions when updates are released. I see binary distro users fluffing about looking for their distro's binaries for kde-latest when I have done emerge -u world and been running it for days or weeks.
Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?)
Registration keys can still be found by doing a search on Google - some interesting info also - for example try a search for WP8 corel registration or WordPerfect on Linux FAQ - apparantly Corel do not prohibit people from publishing their keys (hint - I have one) - so it may not be too difficult to do. my 2c worth Lance - Original Message - From: Philip Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:05:43 +1200 (NZST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OSS bloatware on old hardware (Was: Publicise open source?) On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Must check my archive copies of SuSE. IIRC, WP8 could be downloaded at no cost, but had to be registered. I am not certain if this still can be done. Probably not, and there's the question of whether the downloadable copy could be passed on, but I'd ignore that detail. If you haven't got those old SuSE versions, I have, and as I understand I'm free to make copies. (There is something to be said for distros on CD as opposed to downloading.) I still have a copy of the downloadable version. Unfortunately http://linux.corel.com seems to have gone. Registration! Phil. -- Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sell GNU/Linux GNU/Hurd CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz -- __ http://www.linuxmail.org/ Now with e-mail forwarding for only US$5.95/yr Powered by Outblaze
Re: OpenBSD
Agree'd, now that I've had broadband for about 4 days now, dunno how I lived without it. 128K through Iconz for $22.50/Mo, plus telecom line fee $30 and woohoo, she's smokin compared to dialup. Cheers Jason Nick Rout wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:35:29 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) Now having said that,doing _any_ major upgrade over 56k is enought to make you want broadband. That includes windows update thru to any of the free OSes.
Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl.
Re: Free books for download
On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 08:46, Carl Cerecke wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: http://www.vnunet.de/testticker/freedownloads/freedownloads.asp A new one every 2 days, for a month. The personal firewall's just been - bugger (someone got a copy?) In German. (Hey I don't understand your problem... ;) They're all Sprache: Deutsch Well if they have a Learn to speak German in 21 days you can combine that with C in 21 tagen and get an effective Learn C in 42 days book! -- John Carter Phone : (64)(3) 358 6639 Tait ElectronicsFax : (64)(3) 359 4632 PO Box 1645 ChristchurchEmail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Zealand This email is not designed or intended for use in on-line control of aircraft, air traffic, aircraft navigation or aircraft communications; or in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility.
RE: OpenBSD
Well I will chime in with my experiences. I am command-line averse and compared to many on this list still a newbie. I Started with RedHat 7.2 and upgraded each time a more recent RH distro was available. After Nick Rout's Gentoo presentation at a CLUG meeting I thought it was worth trying so, with help from Nick, I installed it on a P2 400 Mhz with 384 Mb Ram. Gentoo was definitely faster that RedHat 8.0 which I had been running on the same machine. I now have Gentoo on my main machine - P4 1.6 Ghz What I love about it is that without doubt Gentoo has later versions of most packages than any other distro I have looked at (take the challenge if you do not believe me) and they usually install with one command for any package - emerge packagename. (You can use search to search for available and installed versions, -u for upgrade, -p for pretend etc. etc.) Simple. Do not get me wrong, the setup is not for the faint hearted - long and arduous journey but a great destination. For any queries the Gentoo Forum is great and there are some great local helpers too. Regards, Robert
RE: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
Same here, Debian (via Knoppix) installed fine on SCSI disks. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Christopher Sawtell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 9 June 2003 7:13 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:00, you wrote: I would like to bring a server along to install debian on. does anyone have any disks. Yes, as soon as Rik launches the boomerang back home. :-) It has SCSI so i don't know how to go about it. What make / model of host adaptor have you got? I just want some Advanced Guidance Debian installed just fine for me on a SCSI disk. -- C. S.
Re: OpenBSD
I'm was using Gentoo 1.2, then I went to Mandrake 9.0 then back to Gentoo 1.4. 1.2 and 1.4 both *felt* a lot faster than Mandrake. Everyone else I've talked to who has installed Gentoo has found it faster than Mandrake..maybe it's subjective, but at the end of the day if you feel it's faster, then you are happier with it. You can use prelinking on Gentoo, but I'm not using it at the moment. But some real benchmarks would be good :) Cheers Simon On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:41, Matthew Gregan wrote: What versions of Gentoo and Mandrake are we even talking about? I suspect the difference may be caused by something like ELF pre-linking on the Gentoo box. I realise the whole system has been optimized, but what benchmarks do you have to prove how much faster it is, other than subjective things like x and y start faster? Google doesn't turn much up, for me, in the way of Gentoo versus whatever benchmarks. I think it might be time to get a copy of Gentoo for myself and do some real benchmarks. Cheers, -mjg -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl.
Re: OpenBSD
Ok, this is how I see it. With my current knowlege, Gentoo would make me feel dumb, whereas Mandrake makes me feel somewhat competent in Linux. Perhaps I am just resisting the elucidation of my lack of knowlege. Cheers Jason Nick Rout wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:35:29 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) Now having said that,doing _any_ major upgrade over 56k is enought to make you want broadband. That includes windows update thru to any of the free OSes.
Re: OpenBSD
the discussion at this point was related to net access speed, but machine speed is another pont to take into account. On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:42:12 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time With Mandrake, once I download, I install, with Gentoo, once I download, I compile, THEN install, big difference ona slow box!!! Cheers Jason Simon Hansman wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:23, Nick Rout wrote: Re dialup, neither is any other distro any good if you rely solely on dialup to install and maintain your distro. People on dialup generally beg/steal/borrow a CD to install. Anyone who wants to do the same with gentoo can do so. Its simply a matter of finding someone with an up to date portage tree and dumping /usr/portage on a cd, then dumping the contents of the cd onto the 56kuser's hard drive. Bang, up to date emerge scripts and source code. I have done this for several people and it saves heaps of time. Then all you have to fear is an update to xfree or kde, which will take a while to download. But it will for binary packages too. Anyway, 56k with gentoo is no nore restrictive than any other distro which gets updated frequently - and face it who wants old versions when updates are released. I see binary distro users fluffing about looking for their distro's binaries for kde-latest when I have done emerge -u world and been running it for days or weeks. -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
I do this every couple of days with Gentoo and I just leave the compilation going in a konsole in the backgroundit's not a big deal really. For big compiles like a new KDE, I just leave my pc on overnight, again it doesn't inconvience at all. anyway, each to their own, Simon On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:33, Jason wrote: Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl. -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL Simon Hansman wrote: I do this every couple of days with Gentoo and I just leave the compilation going in a konsole in the backgroundit's not a big deal really. For big compiles like a new KDE, I just leave my pc on overnight, again it doesn't inconvience at all. anyway, each to their own, Simon On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:33, Jason wrote: Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl.
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
You only upgrade the packages you have installed. I generally do emerge rsync emerge -up world once or twice a fortnight and unless something like Ooo or KDE is upgraded it often will complete everything within half an hour. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 10:33 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl.
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL Simon Hansman wrote: I do this every couple of days with Gentoo and I just leave the compilation going in a konsole in the backgroundit's not a big deal really. For big compiles like a new KDE, I just leave my pc on overnight, again it doesn't inconvience at all. anyway, each to their own, Simon On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:33, Jason wrote: Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl. -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Ok, Ok, I will have to try this bleeding Gentoo at some stage then =) Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: You only upgrade the packages you have installed. I generally do emerge rsync emerge -up world once or twice a fortnight and unless something like Ooo or KDE is upgraded it often will complete everything within half an hour. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 10:33 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Yes but to stay bleeding edge don't you have to compile each time you download a new package?? I install the latest version of cooker each day. With Gentoo, doesn't that mean I'd have to comipile a lot of packages each day?? Mandrake does the compiling for me with Cooker yes?? Cheers Jason Carl Cerecke wrote: Jason wrote: Yes but you are forgetting the compile time That's the point. After you've done it once, you *can* forget about the compile time. But the performance benefits continue every time you use the program. Cheers, Carl.
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Good ideas, will investigate at home =) Nick Rout wrote: package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
I suggest going to http://gazza.citylink.co.nz/gentoo/releases/1.4_rc4/x86/x86/livecd/ and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso And there is another great thing about Gentoo - there is a New Zealand mirror. PS - I will stand corrected if others have better suggestions. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:52 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Ok, which one do I start with?? http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=45 I have a pentiumII 300 so I'd assume the full 135MB Image?? Cheers Jason PS, are there partition tools at install so you can select which partition it goes on?? Is it like a Debian install?? Nick Rout wrote: package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Re: Partition tools, yes cfdisk is used (I think you have to reboot after changing/writing new partitions) Install instructions, which get better all the time, are at.. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:52 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Ok, which one do I start with?? http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=45 I have a pentiumII 300 so I'd assume the full 135MB Image?? Cheers Jason PS, are there partition tools at install so you can select which partition it goes on?? Is it like a Debian install?? Nick Rout wrote: package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Yup, thought along the same lines and saw that here too: http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/gentoo/releases/1.4_rc4/x86/x86/livecd/ Was wondering if the local mirrors are very fast?? Not that it matters with such bloody small ISO's... Ok, so If i DL and install this what do I actually end up with?? Kernel, GCC, Bash, X and networking is all I'd think... Cheers Jason Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: I suggest going to http://gazza.citylink.co.nz/gentoo/releases/1.4_rc4/x86/x86/livecd/ and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso And there is another great thing about Gentoo - there is a New Zealand mirror. PS - I will stand corrected if others have better suggestions. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:52 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Ok, which one do I start with?? http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=45 I have a pentiumII 300 so I'd assume the full 135MB Image?? Cheers Jason PS, are there partition tools at install so you can select which partition it goes on?? Is it like a Debian install?? Nick Rout wrote: package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Cheers...yes, the Gentoo site seems fairly complete. Lots of FM to RT. Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: Re: Partition tools, yes cfdisk is used (I think you have to reboot after changing/writing new partitions) Install instructions, which get better all the time, are at.. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:52 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Ok, which one do I start with?? http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=45 I have a pentiumII 300 so I'd assume the full 135MB Image?? Cheers Jason PS, are there partition tools at install so you can select which partition it goes on?? Is it like a Debian install?? Nick Rout wrote: package list here too, haven't checked how upto date it is http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +1200 Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, why don't you Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ ..and see if my claim is correct about how up to date Gentoo is. Then why not have a look at a happy Gentoo box doing an upgrade (I am sure there are many Gentoo users happy to show off). I think then you may be convinced. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 11:23 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Gentoo is looking more feasible by the minute...I am running out of excuses not to at least try it. =) Nick Rout wrote: nice -n 10 emerge -u world does it with lower priority, and doesn't seem to affect other work too much. nice is ..errr. a nice feature On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:33 +1200 Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah but I'd actually like to USE my machine while it was compiling. =) LOL -- Nick Rout Barrister Solicitor Christchurch, NZ Ph +64 3 3798966 Fax + 64 3 3798853 http://www.rout.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso Is this why you claim the packages are so up-to-date--because you're running a release candidate, i.e. not a stable release? If this is the case, it's not a lot different to running something like Debian's testing/unstable tree (or, for that matter, any other distributions pre-release trees). So it would seem that the claims of Gentoo having more up-to-date packages than other distributions might be a little exaggerated. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
In its defense, I'd wager (and I don't use the thing) that Gentoos RC's are more stable than a Mandrake Release!! Not that I have many problems but the Mandrake releases need about 3 weeks more polish before release almost EVERY time, and they never seem to get it. A pity really. If they did then Mandrake and URPMI would rule the world!!® Cheers Jason Matthew Gregan wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso Is this why you claim the packages are so up-to-date--because you're running a release candidate, i.e. not a stable release? If this is the case, it's not a lot different to running something like Debian's testing/unstable tree (or, for that matter, any other distributions pre-release trees). So it would seem that the claims of Gentoo having more up-to-date packages than other distributions might be a little exaggerated. Cheers, -mjg
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Gentoo RC's are tied more to the installer (and possibly gcc) than a actual list of packages, so once you've got it installed all you are running is Gentoo. You can choose which versions of programs to use, or just use the current stable ones. So only real difference you'll notice in the RCs is during the install. Cheers Simon On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:29, Jason wrote: In its defense, I'd wager (and I don't use the thing) that Gentoos RC's are more stable than a Mandrake Release!! Not that I have many problems but the Mandrake releases need about 3 weeks more polish before release almost EVERY time, and they never seem to get it. A pity really. If they did then Mandrake and URPMI would rule the world!!® Cheers Jason Matthew Gregan wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso Is this why you claim the packages are so up-to-date--because you're running a release candidate, i.e. not a stable release? If this is the case, it's not a lot different to running something like Debian's testing/unstable tree (or, for that matter, any other distributions pre-release trees). So it would seem that the claims of Gentoo having more up-to-date packages than other distributions might be a little exaggerated. Cheers, -mjg -- Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ You have to manually chose to use packages which are not classed as Stable but even the stable ones are more up to date than those of other distros IMNSH. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 12:19 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso Is this why you claim the packages are so up-to-date--because you're running a release candidate, i.e. not a stable release? If this is the case, it's not a lot different to running something like Debian's testing/unstable tree (or, for that matter, any other distributions pre-release trees). So it would seem that the claims of Gentoo having more up-to-date packages than other distributions might be a little exaggerated. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Firstly, I never said you were wrong, I said your comparison is not apples-to-apples. Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ Neither of these lists indicate which version is considered the stable version, nor which version would be the default if you emerged that package. Also note that there are often very good reasons for running software versions other than the very latest available--these can be for security, stability, and correctness reasons. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
I believe that the versions of packages listed at http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml are the ones which will be emerged by default - the latest stable according to Gentoo versions. The other site (http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/) will give you all of the currently available Gentoo versions of a package - click on the search results to see their status. e.g. The current versions of gimp gave Search results media-gfx/gimp-1.2.3-r2 media-gfx/gimp-1.3.10 media-gfx/gimp-1.3.14 media-gfx/gimp-1.2.3-r3 media-gfx/gimp-1.3.11 media-gfx/gimp-1.2.4media-gfx/gimp-1.3.13 Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 1:10 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Firstly, I never said you were wrong, I said your comparison is not apples-to-apples. Check package versions which you currently use against those available from http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml or http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ Neither of these lists indicate which version is considered the stable version, nor which version would be the default if you emerged that package. Also note that there are often very good reasons for running software versions other than the very latest available--these can be for security, stability, and correctness reasons. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
no they are the stable packages, and you can also run unstable. rc is a release candidate for the distro version 1.4 as a whole, but the packages in portage are stable. On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:19:10 +1200 Matthew Gregan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso Is this why you claim the packages are so up-to-date--because you're running a release candidate, i.e. not a stable release? If this is the case, it's not a lot different to running something like Debian's testing/unstable tree (or, for that matter, any other distributions pre-release trees). So it would seem that the claims of Gentoo having more up-to-date packages than other distributions might be a little exaggerated. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Right. I've taken a list of packages from [1], and compared that to the list of packages in Debian testing[2]. Note that there is a good chance that the Debian testing list is a little out of date compared to what is actually available in the testing tree. The same may be true of the Gentoo list, but I can't comment on that. For each package/version pair listed at [1], I've checked the package/version pair listed at [2] and generated a list of packages and the version that Gentoo and Debian testing are offering. Attached[3] is a comma-separated value list, containing a list of Packages, and the versions that are reported to be available according to [1] and [2]. In most cases where the two distributions are not equal, Debian testing is coming out ahead. There are a few cases where it appears Gentoo has an advantage (e.g. raidtools), but this is because Debian offers raidtools 0.4x and 0.9x separately. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/sys-apps/index.xml [2] http://packages.debian.org/testing/allpackages.html [3] I don't generally like attaching files to emails that are destined for a mailing list, but in this case the file is smaller than most of the top-posting full-quoting emails that I receive from this list. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED] Package,Gentoo,Debian acl,2.1.1r1,2.2.9-1 acpid,1.0.1,1.0.2-2 anacron,2.3,2.3-7 apcupsd,3.10.5r3,3.8.5-1.2 apmd,3.0.2r3,3.2.0-3 at,3.1.8r8,3.1.8-11 attr,2.2.0,2.4.3-1 buffer,1.19r1,1.19-3 busybox,0.60.3r1,1:0.60.5-2 bzip2,1.0.2r2,1.0.2-1 chpax,0.4,0.4-1 console-data,1999.08.29r2,2002.12.04dbs-13 console-tools,0.2.3r4,1:0.2.3dbs-32 cpio,2.5,2.5-1 debianutils,1.16.7r1,2.5.2 devfsd,1.3.25r3,1.3.25-13 discover,1.5r1,1.5-1.4 discover-data,1.2002.05.23r1,1.2002.08.21-1.1 dmapi,2.0.5r1,2.0.8-1 dnotify,0.5.0,0.12.0-1 dvhtool,1.0.1,1.0.1-2 e2fsprogs,1.33,1.33+1.34-WIP-2003.05.21-1 ed,0.2r3,0.2-20 eject,2.0.12r1,2.0.13-1 epm,0.8.4,3.5.1-1 ethtool,1.7,1.7-1 evms,1.2.1r1,2.0.1-1 ext2resize,1.1.17,1.1.17-3 fakeroot,0.4.4r1,0.7.3 fbset,2.1,2.1-9 fcron,2.0.0r3,2.9.3-3 file,4.02,4.02-4 fileutils,4.1.11,5.0-3 findutils,4.1.7r4,4.1.7-2.1 fxload,20020411,0.0.20020411-1 gawk,3.1.1r2,1:3.1.2-2 gradm,1.5a,1.9.9f-1 grep,2.5r1,2.5.1-5 groff,1.18.1r2,1.18.1-9 grub,0.92r1,0.93+cvs20030224-2 gzip,1.3.3r1,1.3.5-1 hdparm,5.3r2,5.3-0.1 help2man,1.29,1.29-1 hfsutils,3.2.6,3.2.6-7 hotplug,20020826r2,0.0.20030117-7 ifplugd,0.13r1,0.13-1 iproute,20010824r2,20010824-9 isapnptools,1.26,1.26-1 jfsutils,1.1.2,1.1.1-1 kbd,1.06r1,1.06-2 less,381,381-2 lilo,22.3.3r1,1:22.5.4-1 lm-sensors,2.6.5,2.6.5-4 lsof,4.67,4.64-1 memtest86,3.0r1,3.0-2 memtester,2.93.1,2.93.1-2 mindi,0.67,0.81-1.1 miscfiles,1.3,1.3-3 module-init-tools,0.9.11r3,0.9.11-1 modutils,2.4.25,2.4.21-2 mondo,0.6,1.61-2 most,4.9.2,4.9.2-3 net-tools,1.60r6,1.60-6 noflushd,2.6.3,2.6.3-1 palo,1.2_pre20030115,1.2 parted,1.6.5,1.6.5-1 partimage,0.6.2,0.6.2.final-2 pciutils,2.1.10r1,1:2.1.11-2 pcmcia-cs,3.2.4,3.1.33-6 procps,3.1.8,1:3.1.8-1 psmisc,21.2r1,21.3-1 quota,3.06,3.08-7 raidtools,0.90r2,0.42-34 reiserfsprogs,3.6.8,1:3.6.6-3 s3switch,19990826,0.0.20030423-1 sed,4.0.7,4.0.7-1 setserial,2.17r2,2.17-33 sharutils,4.2.1r6,1:4.2.1-10 slocate,2.7r2,2.7-1 smartmontools,5.1.11,5.1.11-1 star,1.5_alpha09,1.5a14-2 subterfugue,0.2r1,0.2.1a-6 syslinux,2.02,2.00-2 tar,1.13.25r3,1.13.25-5 texinfo,4.5,4.3-1 textutils,2.1,5.0-3 time,1.7r1,1.7-15 tmpreaper,1.4.12,1.6.1 tpctl,4.2,4.4-1 ucspi-unix,0.36,0.36-1 udftools,1.0.0b,1.0.0b2-2 usbutils,0.11,0.11-1 util-linux,2.11zr3,2.11z-1 which,2.14,2.14-4 x86info,1.11,1.11-6 xfsdump,2.2.4r1,2.2.11-1 xfsprogs,2.3.6,2.4.9-1 xinetd,2.3.11,1:2.3.11-1 yard,2.2,2.2-3
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Sorry - that's not apples and apples. You're comparing Gentoo stable vs Debian testing. However I can't see how to get the website to display it's unstable packages :) Maybe Debian unstable might be a closer comparison (I won't suggest trying Deb stable - that's just unfair!) Brad -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 1:41 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Right. I've taken a list of packages from [1], and compared that to the list of packages in Debian testing[2]. Note that there is a good chance that the Debian testing list is a little out of date compared to what is actually available in the testing tree. The same may be true of the Gentoo list, but I can't comment on that. For each package/version pair listed at [1], I've checked the package/version pair listed at [2] and generated a list of packages and the version that Gentoo and Debian testing are offering. Attached[3] is a comma-separated value list, containing a list of Packages, and the versions that are reported to be available according to [1] and [2]. In most cases where the two distributions are not equal, Debian testing is coming out ahead. There are a few cases where it appears Gentoo has an advantage (e.g. raidtools), but this is because Debian offers raidtools 0.4x and 0.9x separately. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/sys-apps/index.xml [2] http://packages.debian.org/testing/allpackages.html [3] I don't generally like attaching files to emails that are destined for a mailing list, but in this case the file is smaller than most of the top-posting full-quoting emails that I receive from this list. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 12:11:19AM +0100, Jim Cheetham wrote: On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:46:40AM +1200, Dave Lilley wrote: Hi there folks, Anyone played or using OpenBSD ?? What's your opinion of it ??? I have an OpenBSD 3.3 boot cd (and floppy) if you wanted to borrow it. IMHO, the system is well suited to a BSD-aware administrator (I co-admin a set of FreeBSD boxen in the UK), who wants to know the setup is more secure than flexible, and will be running stable, standard services. It's not really a base for experimenting with the bleeding edge :-) and isn't really a desktop system, either. Why not? OpenBSD makes a better desktop system than Debian, I've found - much more current with KDE, Gnome, et cetera. If you want to achieve security of your data, use a live CD with portable storage (like Knoppix with a USB drive). If you want to have a stable, safe server, OpenBSD is worth considering. The trust level I'd ascribe to the distribution management of OpenBSD is extremely high, based on past experience. *BSD is excellent for servers, moreso than Linux which is very well suited to an active administrator. BSD admins are much more laid back :-) and they always know who has tested their software first. NetBSD is great for high-network-traffic machines. FreeBSD is almost as flexible as a Linux, and more stable in a qualitative way. OpenBSD sacrifices current features for an intelligent code review, leading to a lower need for security updates. What's not current about OpenBSD's features? It's a bit sparse on hardware support - but I don't have any issues other than the lack of PCI DSL support, which is marginal at best on Linux, anyway. Ben.
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Try http://gentoo-stable.iq-computing.de/ For all available Gentoo versions of packages Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Brad Beveridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 1:55 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) Sorry - that's not apples and apples. You're comparing Gentoo stable vs Debian testing. However I can't see how to get the website to display it's unstable packages :) Maybe Debian unstable might be a closer comparison (I won't suggest trying Deb stable - that's just unfair!) Brad -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 1:41 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Right. I've taken a list of packages from [1], and compared that to the list of packages in Debian testing[2]. Note that there is a good chance that the Debian testing list is a little out of date compared to what is actually available in the testing tree. The same may be true of the Gentoo list, but I can't comment on that. For each package/version pair listed at [1], I've checked the package/version pair listed at [2] and generated a list of packages and the version that Gentoo and Debian testing are offering. Attached[3] is a comma-separated value list, containing a list of Packages, and the versions that are reported to be available according to [1] and [2]. In most cases where the two distributions are not equal, Debian testing is coming out ahead. There are a few cases where it appears Gentoo has an advantage (e.g. raidtools), but this is because Debian offers raidtools 0.4x and 0.9x separately. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/sys-apps/index.xml [2] http://packages.debian.org/testing/allpackages.html [3] I don't generally like attaching files to emails that are destined for a mailing list, but in this case the file is smaller than most of the top-posting full-quoting emails that I receive from this list. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
My comparison is done with the programmes I use most often Showing package name, Gentoo version, Debian version. Kopete, 6.2, NA K3b, 0.8.1-r1, 0.8 Ksambaplugin, 0.4b, NA Samba, 3.0_alpha24-r1, 2.2.3a-12 Mozilla, 1.3-r2, 1.2 ?? Gnucash, 1.8.4, 1.8.1-1 Evolution, 1.3.92, 1.0.5-1 Mplayer, 0.9.0_rc5, NA Kmplayer, 0.7.4a, NA Perhaps not very scientific but it has me satisfied. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 1:41 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) File: packages-sorted.csv On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:51:19PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read my lips. Take up the challenge. Right. I've taken a list of packages from [1], and compared that to the list of packages in Debian testing[2]. Note that there is a good chance that the Debian testing list is a little out of date compared to what is actually available in the testing tree. The same may be true of the Gentoo list, but I can't comment on that. For each package/version pair listed at [1], I've checked the package/version pair listed at [2] and generated a list of packages and the version that Gentoo and Debian testing are offering. Attached[3] is a comma-separated value list, containing a list of Packages, and the versions that are reported to be available according to [1] and [2]. In most cases where the two distributions are not equal, Debian testing is coming out ahead. There are a few cases where it appears Gentoo has an advantage (e.g. raidtools), but this is because Debian offers raidtools 0.4x and 0.9x separately. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/sys-apps/index.xml [2] http://packages.debian.org/testing/allpackages.html [3] I don't generally like attaching files to emails that are destined for a mailing list, but in this case the file is smaller than most of the top-posting full-quoting emails that I receive from this list. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
laptop acpi Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:17:55 +1200 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:13:02 +1200 Nick Brettell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its a (fairly new) Dell Inspiron N2800X (I think its called) P4 processor... It may need acpi turned on in the kernel. I assume you have done the usual google searches? and the linux laptops page? -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] re acpi - this will entail patching the kernel as the acpi patch is still waiting for inclusion into the marcelo(ie stable) tree OR using one from the -ac (alan cox) tree since this patch has been included in his series for some time now. by use i mean downloading the kernel source, appropriate patchset(s) and then patch and build etc. the only reason it hasn't gone into marcelo's tree yet is because of its size. according to alan all reports have been good - a lot of happy laptop users. there was some discussion on the kernel list about this over the weekend. for more info see acpi4Linux at: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/ the ac tree is mirrored locally at: http://www.catalyst.lkams.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/linux-2.4/2.4.21/ i'd suggest using 2.4.21-rc7-ac1 would be alright as it seems to be ok. hth cheers peter
good ftp site?
Hi Sorry to interrupt the Gentoo vs BSD vs Mandrake fight, I just have an unrelated question... Where's a good place to download MDK 9.1 iso's? I tried leaving the Jetstart 128k going over the weekend to planetmirror.com.au, but not reliable. Can someone suggest a good free d/l site? Thanks heaps! Steve
Hardware
Title: Message I have been getting lot of questions regarding the boxes I have available, so here are the answers Digital PC3100 64MB SD-Ram (168pin) FDD Keyboard (Digital) Mouse 2GHZ HDD 200MHZ MMX Onboard S3Trio64V2 2 USB Ports ESS Audiodrive Soundcard No Monitor I paid $120+GST for each box, As such I would like to get $120 for each one. Regards Adam P.S Yes they are fully compatible with Linux
Re: OpenBSD
On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:46:40AM +1200, Dave Lilley wrote: Hi there folks, Anyone played or using OpenBSD ?? What's your opinion of it ??? interested in it. I've tried a lot of different OS's, and different Linux distributions, and I've found that OpenBSD is the only one that doesn't constantly piss me off. It's got it's problems, but they're problems I know, and understand, and can deal with. So let's start with what sucks about OpenBSD. The install doesn't work with a USB keyboard unless your bios will do emulation. Which often seems to require the USB keyboard to be plugged into a specific port. The default kernel image doesn't use much memory for caching your disk - 5% of ram. This is easy to change, you can run: config -e -o /nbsd /bsd cachepct 25 mv /bsd /obsd; cp -f /nbsd /bsd And that'll give you 25% percent instead, which is a lot nicer. I think I use 60% on my desktop system which has 512 MB of ram, and never seems to be able to actually use up all of it's free ram let alone swap. There's some low limits on system resources by default - you can't suddenly run 1000 xterm processes on a default install like you can on Linux 2.4. XFree86 isn't configured by default - after a fresh install you can run xf86config and setup your X. I don't find this a big deal. You can then edit /etc/rc.conf and change the line that says xdm_flags=NO to xdm_flags= to start xdm on bootup. root's shell defaults to /bin/csh, which is icky. You can login as root and type chsh and change the line that says /bin/csh to /bin/ksh and then you'll have a decent shell that isn't bloated, but still has tab completion, support for vi key bindings, and I think emacs key bindings too, but I don't use them. There's no NZ mirror that's up-to-date that I know of. I've got the base system i386 tarballs, and source tarballs and I can make them publically accessible if anybody's keen. (but you'd still have to get packages). There is a mirror that's about an extra 50 msec away in Australia, on www.wiretapped.net/pub/OpenBSD, and there's also PlanetMirror (Australia again) - which seems to go fine sometimes, and pretty slow other times. That said, these issues don't really phase me, especially seeing as I just did an OS/2 install - I'm still not sure how to make my keyboard mapping in OS/2 stick, and OS/2's config.sys is really scary, and I had many many other issues. Now, onto what I like about OpenBSD. Single floppy install. I've done this many times, on many different computers, and it's easy, fast, convenient, and flexible. There's no software raid in the default kernel. You have to change the default kernel image to include raid support, and build a new kernel. This isn't too hard. You don't have to know what all your hardware is or anything, as you're not starting from nothing, you're starting from the default kernel. There's no PXEBOOT support currently. This is actually a bit annoying :) You can just download the i386/ directory on a local ftp server, plug the computer you're installing into ethernet, and specify your l/p and path and get a fast install that doesn't require a cdrom drive, or floppy changing, or even a monitor/keyboard if you know that the computer will boot without. If there's no video card, output will default to the first serial port, else you can just tweak the disk slightly. (google and you'll find out how, it escapes me, but I remember it's simple) The configuration is simple, /etc isn't scary, /etc/rc.conf is a joy to work with for configuring many aspects of your system. SSH is installed by default, apache just needs: httpd_flags= instead of httpd_flags=NO set in rc.conf, or httpd_flags=-u if you don't want to chroot. (apache defaults to chrooting, which means that if the web server is compromised, none of rest of the system is visible, but this also means that if you want to access anything out of the web server root then you have to copy it into the chroot area) The filesystem layout is quite different to any Linux distribution that I've used, but I like it. Apache lives in /var/www, locally installed packages live in /usr/local, the base system lives in /usr. There's a convenient rescue disk kernel image called bsd.rd. You can type in bsd.rd at the boot loader, and you have a nice rescue system, with tar etc on it, that you can do installs, upgrades, or get a shell, and you're always safe :) USB support works out-of-the-box, and you can just plug in a USB mouse, or a USB keyboard while X is running and you suddenly have two mice or two keyboards that both work. I'm actually using a USB keyboard, and a USB mouse an my desktop system at home using OpenBSD. You can still run Linux programs under emulation. I use the Linux version of Opera, as Opera 7 is nicer than Opera 6 which is the latest version available for FreeBSD, which can also be emulated. Manpages are well written, and very useful. Everything in general is
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 09:23:16AM +1200, Nick Rout wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:39:41 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, yeah far enough. On a slower computer Gentoo's probably not the best option (likewise Gentoo may not be the best option on a dialup connection)...But when you upgrade or buy a new one, you'll be able to run Gentoo :). Cheers Simon Re dialup, neither is any other distro any good if you rely solely on dialup to install and maintain your distro. People on dialup generally beg/steal/borrow a CD to install. Anyone who wants to do the same with gentoo can do so. Its simply a matter of finding someone with an up to date portage tree and dumping /usr/portage on a cd, then dumping the contents of the cd onto the 56kuser's hard drive. Bang, up to date emerge scripts and source code. I have done this for several people and it saves heaps of time. Then all you have to fear is an update to xfree or kde, which will take a while to download. But it will for binary packages too. Anyway, 56k with gentoo is no nore restrictive than any other distro which gets updated frequently - and face it who wants old versions when updates are released. I see binary distro users fluffing about looking for their distro's binaries for kde-latest when I have done emerge -u world and been running it for days or weeks. 56k's no big deal for network installs. You just don't install cruft that you don't need. (and you then get pissed off at Debian's constant minor upgrades of glibc which involve a complete download) Ben.
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 09:40:17AM +1200, Nick Rout wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:35:29 +1200 Simon Hansman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I've helped a couple of dialup users using the same method...the problem is updating but as you say it'd be the same for any distro. So there you go, as Nick has made clear, dialup shouldn't stop you from using Gentoo :) Now having said that,doing _any_ major upgrade over 56k is enought to make you want broadband. That includes windows update thru to any of the free OSes. If it takes longer than overnight, you've got too many packages that you don't need installed imo. Ben.
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:00:48PM +1200, Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: I suggest going to http://gazza.citylink.co.nz/gentoo/releases/1.4_rc4/x86/x86/livecd/ and get gentoo-3stages-x86-1.4_rc4.iso And there is another great thing about Gentoo - there is a New Zealand mirror. PS - I will stand corrected if others have better suggestions. Anyone have any idea how to install gentoo without a cdrom drive? I googled once without much success. I want the most minimal system that involves being able to remotely access the box, even if via null modem cable. Then I can stick the noisy computer away from me, and not mind the long compile times :) Actually, now I think about it. I have a Dual PPro 200, that has a scsi cdrom drive, which I have no idea how to boot off. But if I can boot off of a floppy drive and hardness a cdrom image, it'd be fine? It's got Debian on it at the moment (FreeBSD wouldn't go on it) but it's not even turned on, because I don't really have any use for it :) Ben.
Re: Hardware
On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 12:24:53PM +1200, Adam wrote: Hello all, Apologies if this sort of post is not allowed I have about 15 boxes that I want to get rid of, brought them awhile ago and realise that They aint quite what I need. Digital PC3000 200MHZ MMX 64MB RAM 10/100 NIC FDD 2Gig HDD Keyboard Mouse Just wondering what they are worth, and if anybody wants any. Would make good firewalls, proxy servers etc. Even dumb terminals. I could be interested in some. I could give you $300 for 8 boxes. Ben.
Re: Hardware
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:58:15PM +1200, Adam Martin wrote: I have been getting lot of questions regarding the boxes I have available, so here are the answers Digital PC3100 64MB SD-Ram (168pin) FDD Keyboard (Digital) Mouse 2GHZ HDD 200MHZ MMX Onboard S3Trio64V2 2 USB Ports ESS Audiodrive Soundcard No Monitor I paid $120+GST for each box, As such I would like to get $120 for each one. And there I go selling P2's for under that. :) You could try trademe, that's where I buy lots of stuff I don't need from. :) Ben.
Re: good ftp site?
ftp.tranzpeer.net |ben Steve Bell said: Hi Sorry to interrupt the Gentoo vs BSD vs Mandrake fight, I just have an unrelated question... Where's a good place to download MDK 9.1 iso's? I tried leaving the Jetstart 128k going over the weekend to planetmirror.com.au, but not reliable. Can someone suggest a good free d/l site? Thanks heaps! Steve
Re: laptop acpi Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:17:55 +1200 Nick Rout wrote: It may need acpi turned on in the kernel. I assume you have done the usual google searches? and the linux laptops page? Yes, but I'm don't really know how to go about recompiling or patching the kernel... I'm still fairly new to linux, and I don't want to try it when I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe someone could give me a hand with all of this? - Original Message - From: Peter Elliott Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:49 PM Subject: laptop acpi Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003 re acpi - this will entail patching the kernel as the acpi patch is still waiting for inclusion into the marcelo(ie stable) tree OR using one from the -ac (alan cox) tree since this patch has been included in his series for some time now. by use i mean downloading the kernel source, appropriate patchset(s) and then patch and build etc. the only reason it hasn't gone into marcelo's tree yet is because of its size. according to alan all reports have been good - a lot of happy laptop users. there was some discussion on the kernel list about this over the weekend. for more info see acpi4Linux at: http://acpi.sourceforge.net/ the ac tree is mirrored locally at: http://www.catalyst.lkams.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/linux-2.4/2.4.21/ i'd suggest using 2.4.21-rc7-ac1 would be alright as it seems to be ok.
RE: good ftp site?
Thanks! Like a charm. ftp.tranzpeer.net |ben Steve Bell said: Hi Sorry to interrupt the Gentoo vs BSD vs Mandrake fight, I just have an unrelated question... Where's a good place to download MDK 9.1 iso's? I tried leaving the Jetstart 128k going over the weekend to planetmirror.com.au, but not reliable. Can someone suggest a good free d/l site? Thanks heaps! Steve
Re: good ftp site?
ftp.paradise.net.nz Hi Sorry to interrupt the Gentoo vs BSD vs Mandrake fight, I just have an unrelated question... Where's a good place to download MDK 9.1 iso's? I tried leaving the Jetstart 128k going over the weekend to planetmirror.com.au, but not reliable. Can someone suggest a good free d/l site? Thanks heaps! Steve = For Linux CD's check out http://www.xsolutions.co.nz http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:55:24PM +1200, Brad Beveridge wrote: Sorry - that's not apples and apples. You're comparing Gentoo stable vs Debian testing. However I can't see how to get the website to Yes, I repeatedly mentioned it was Debian testing. I chose Debian testing because most Debian users who want a stable system with fairly recent packages are likely to be running testing. Sure, it is not _called_ 'stable', but you'll find it is (simplistically speaking) as stable as another distribution running the same versions of each package. display it's unstable packages :) Maybe Debian unstable might be a closer comparison (I won't suggest trying Deb stable - that's just unfair!) Did you look at the list? Debian testing was already fairly competitive. Debian unstable is not appropriate to compare because it really is unstable, and is likely to contain broken packages at any time. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Who really wants to deal with a constantly changing system though? Only a geek with too much time, and too few projects? On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 04:36:32PM +1200, Matthew Gregan wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:55:24PM +1200, Brad Beveridge wrote: Sorry - that's not apples and apples. You're comparing Gentoo stable vs Debian testing. However I can't see how to get the website to Yes, I repeatedly mentioned it was Debian testing. I chose Debian testing because most Debian users who want a stable system with fairly recent packages are likely to be running testing. Sure, it is not _called_ 'stable', but you'll find it is (simplistically speaking) as stable as another distribution running the same versions of each package. display it's unstable packages :) Maybe Debian unstable might be a closer comparison (I won't suggest trying Deb stable - that's just unfair!) Did you look at the list? Debian testing was already fairly competitive. Debian unstable is not appropriate to compare because it really is unstable, and is likely to contain broken packages at any time. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:55:24PM +1200, Brad Beveridge wrote: However I can't see how to get the website to display it's unstable packages :) It's not clear whether you were talking about Gentoo unstable or Debian unstable. The Debian unstable package list is easy to find. See [1]. [1] http://packages.debian.org/unstable/allpackages.html Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
Opps, sorry - I thought the Deb progression was stable - unstable - testing. From your message I take it progression is stable - testing - unstable, in which case I would expect the comparison to be fairer. Apologies. Brad -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 4:37 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:55:24PM +1200, Brad Beveridge wrote: Sorry - that's not apples and apples. You're comparing Gentoo stable vs Debian testing. However I can't see how to get the website to Yes, I repeatedly mentioned it was Debian testing. I chose Debian testing because most Debian users who want a stable system with fairly recent packages are likely to be running testing. Sure, it is not _called_ 'stable', but you'll find it is (simplistically speaking) as stable as another distribution running the same versions of each package. display it's unstable packages :) Maybe Debian unstable might be a closer comparison (I won't suggest trying Deb stable - that's just unfair!) Did you look at the list? Debian testing was already fairly competitive. Debian unstable is not appropriate to compare because it really is unstable, and is likely to contain broken packages at any time. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
I was meaning Gentoo unstable. -Original Message- From: Matthew Gregan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 4:39 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD) On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:55:24PM +1200, Brad Beveridge wrote: However I can't see how to get the website to display it's unstable packages :) It's not clear whether you were talking about Gentoo unstable or Debian unstable. The Debian unstable package list is easy to find. See [1]. [1] http://packages.debian.org/unstable/allpackages.html Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:40:31PM +1200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My comparison is done with the programmes I use most often Showing package name, Gentoo version, Debian version. Kopete, 6.2, NA K3b, 0.8.1-r1, 0.8 Ksambaplugin, 0.4b, NA Granted. KDE support can tend to lag a little. Samba, 3.0_alpha24-r1, 2.2.3a-12 Samba 3.0.0beta1-1 is in Debian unstable. There's a reason why Samba 3.x is not in the testing tree yet. Mozilla, 1.3-r2, 1.2 ?? Yes, the Mozilla in Debian is ancient, unless you go to Debian unstable. Gnucash, 1.8.4, 1.8.1-1 I'm not sure where you're getting these versions from, but they are wrong. Debian unstable has 1.8.4-1. Debian testing is still using the Debian stable package, which is at 1.6.6-1. Evolution, 1.3.92, 1.0.5-1 Yep. 1.3.92-2 is in Debian unstable. Probably for a reason. Mplayer, 0.9.0_rc5, NA Kmplayer, 0.7.4a, NA Mplayer is probably considered non-free--not sure on that though. Perhaps not very scientific but it has me satisfied. Quite unscientific. I question where you got some of your version information from, e.g. Mozilla 1.2 for Debian, and Gnucash 1.8.1-1. I provided a fairly sizable list of packages and their Gentoo and Debian testing versions, and Debian was able to compete quite well. It is certainly not as if Gentoo is leagues ahead in this area. My earlier disclaimer about using the latest software still applies, too. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: laptop acpi Re: CLUG Clinic Meeting - Monday 30 June 2003
buggered if I know actually! On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:49:16 +1200 Peter Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: re acpi - this will entail patching the kernel as the acpi patch is still waiting for inclusion into the marcelo(ie stable) tree OR using one from the -ac (alan cox) tree since this patch has been included in his series for some time now. by use i mean downloading the kernel source, appropriate patchset(s) and then patch and build etc -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenBSD
(U)DMA is enabled realiably. It seems Linux has terrible problems with not enabling dma on hard-drives, which means that hdparm has to be used to enable (U)DMA. *) calling hdparm is no problem (/etc/init.d/boot.local) *) the system does this for me if I say which drives *) it's been automatically on for years (for hard disks). *) I've never had trouble with it on many computers, save the old laptop recently which sits for a few minuts spitting errors before the kernel gives up, turns dma off, and all works fine. nodma=ide0 fixes that. With cdrom drives linux dies badly with dma and reading the ends of CDs. Reading the ends of CDs is fscked in Linux fullstop. A daily insecurity mail is sent, telling you about possible permission issues et cetera. Got those for years. ifconfig lets you set media options, unlike Linux. I've got no idea why under Linux mii-tool still has to be used. * I've never heard of mii-tools * media options can be set as module option in module.conf (but I agree that each module is different and the 8139too one is a PITA for getting 10M/duplex - media=42 or something) Some of your points are defintely what-bsd-does-as-well rather than what-bsd-does-over-linux. Thanks for the post though, I always wanted to know a few more things about bsd. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 03:31:45PM +1200, Ben Aitchison wrote: The default kernel image doesn't use much memory for caching your disk - 5% of ram. This is easy to change, you can run: config -e -o /nbsd /bsd cachepct 25 mv /bsd /obsd; cp -f /nbsd /bsd And that'll give you 25% percent instead, which is a lot nicer. I think I use 60% on my desktop system which has 512 MB of ram, and never seems to be able to actually use up all of it's free ram let alone swap. This is a real shame. OpenBSD's caching behaviour is fairly antiquated nowadays, but this will improve once Chuck Cranor's NetBSD UVM code is merged into the tree. There's some low limits on system resources by default - you can't suddenly run 1000 xterm processes on a default install like you can on Linux 2.4. This is done for security reasons. root's shell defaults to /bin/csh, which is icky. You can login as root and type chsh and change the line that says /bin/csh to /bin/ksh and then you'll have a decent shell that isn't bloated, but still has tab completion, support for vi key bindings, and I think emacs key bindings too, but I don't use them. No need to change the root shell, use sudo(8). Also note that csh is still a decent shell, and has command completion and other modern features. And csh is not bloated, either. $ size `which csh` textdatabss dec hex 249856 16384 25140 291380 47234 $ size `which ksh` textdatabss dec hex 299008 12288 23928 335224 51d78 (From an OpenBSD 2.9 system) There's no NZ mirror that's up-to-date that I know of. I've got the base system i386 tarballs, and source tarballs and I can make them publically accessible if anybody's keen. (but you'd still have to get packages). There is a mirror that's about an extra 50 msec away in Australia, on www.wiretapped.net/pub/OpenBSD, and there's also PlanetMirror (Australia again) - which seems to go fine sometimes, and pretty slow other times. The i386 directory from the June 5th 2003 snapshot of OpenBSD-current is 154MB. Not a huge download, but it is a shame there is no OpenBSD mirror, particularly for the likes of CVS. I'd be happy to provide the hardware if there was somewhere to connect it to the net. Single floppy install. I've done this many times, on many different computers, and it's easy, fast, convenient, and flexible. The install is very quick once you're used to it. Very little mucking around. installed by default, apache just needs: httpd_flags= instead of httpd_flags=NO set in rc.conf, or httpd_flags=-u if you don't want to chroot. (apache defaults to chrooting, which means that if the web A few other services are also chroot()ed by default. The list of set[gu]id is reviewed regularly by the developers and reduced where and when possible. I think the number of setuid=0 binaries is well below 10 now, but don't quote me on that. Don't forget the other nice stuff, like systrace. The filesystem layout is quite different to any Linux distribution that I've used, but I like it. Apache lives in /var/www, locally installed packages live in /usr/local, the base system lives in /usr. In addition to this, the installer will set noexec, nosuid, and nodev on your filesystems where it can. Manpages are well written, and very useful. Everything in general is documented properly. New features don't get included without documentation. The documentation is excellent. As you mentioned, the man pages are good, and there is also the OpenBSD FAQ [1], and the PF FAQ [2]. PF (packet filter) works really well, and is clear and concise in functionality compared to ipchains/iptables. There's a simple /etc/pf.conf file where you make your changes. PF with integrated ALTQ is very nice. top is nicer, and it loads instantly :) OpenBSD's top is faster because it uses /dev/kmem rather than /proc like the Linux top. Yes, it loads faster, but reading kernel memory is a somewhat ugly way to extract this information. Though, having said that, reading /proc is quite possibly even more ugly. You don't have to define kernel images, like you do in Lilo. (I know GRUB fixes this issue) To clarify this, the OpenBSD boot loader understands FFS aka UFS, the BSD filesystem, and therefore works more like GRUB than LILO. The *BSDs have had this for quite a while, and GRUB is a welcome addition to Linux. I use OpenBSD on a few machines, and I have all of the files required to perform an installation on an i386 or ppc machine from floppy or bootable CD. I also have many versions of OpenBSD on CD, but since these are official CDs produced by OpenBSD, I don't believe you're entitled copy the images for other people, since the CD layout is copyrighted. If anybody would like a copy of OpenBSD, I can help them out. [1] http://openbsd.org/faq/index.html [2] http://openbsd.org/faq/pf/index.html Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/
Software development
Title: Message Hello all, I am looking for a software developer willing to take on a project that I have in mind.. the work would be unpaid until completion of the project.. whereby programmer would be paid a 50% royalty (of profits). The skills needed Windows Programming Mail protocol xml protocol encryption technologies If anyone is interested please contact me off list for more information, - please provide a brief background too. Thanks Adam
Re: OpenBSD
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 05:21:41PM +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: *) calling hdparm is no problem (/etc/init.d/boot.local) *) the system does this for me if I say which drives You should not have to call hdparm to configure the drives correctly. *) it's been automatically on for years (for hard disks). Correct, assuming the kernel has specific support for your IDE controller chipset. The Linux kernel has been setting up drives correctly for quite some time, in most cases, but it also has had its share of IDE problems. I'd venture to say that most people using hdparm and a modern Linux kernel and IDE controller chipset are either experts, or don't know what they are really doing. You generally don't need hdparm. * media options can be set as module option in module.conf (but I agree that each module is different and the 8139too one is a PITA for getting 10M/duplex - media=42 or something) What about if the NIC driver is compiled in? Linux is a little ugly in this area. Some of your points are defintely what-bsd-does-as-well rather than what-bsd-does-over-linux. Thanks for the post though, I always wanted to know a few more things about bsd. Well, there are certainly areas that each OS (and distrubition) excel at, and there are also things that the *BSDs do that Linux don't--and vice versa. Usually, though, if a nice feature turns up on one side of the fence, it's not long before something similar is available on the other side too. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 04:37:49PM +1200, Ben Aitchison wrote: Who really wants to deal with a constantly changing system though? How is it constantly changing? It only changes when you perform an upgrade. Much the same as an up-to-date Gentoo system would. Cheers, -mjg -- Matthew Gregan |/ /|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gentoo (was Re: OpenBSD)
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 05:33:28PM +1200, Matthew Gregan wrote: On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 04:37:49PM +1200, Ben Aitchison wrote: Who really wants to deal with a constantly changing system though? How is it constantly changing? It only changes when you perform an upgrade. Much the same as an up-to-date Gentoo system would. Well, you have to update for security issues. And often there are dependicies that decide they want to be updated too. I much prefer just having upgrades every 6 months. Ben.
