OT: Cabling to a shed
I'm wanting to connect up my shed for power (3 phase), water and data (phone network). I have (with significant help) dug the trench to the shed and will be organising the connections in the next few weeks. However, if I run the network cables next to the power cables I'll have issues, yes? Is there any way around that? Can I get shielded ducting for underground use (at reasonable cost)? (I was initially just intending to run the cat5e cable through irrigation hose until I remembered the potential interference issues.) Kerry
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Sun, May 17, 2009 19:45, Kerry Mayes wrote: I'm wanting to connect up my shed for power (3 phase), water and data (phone network). I have (with significant help) dug the trench to the shed and will be organising the connections in the next few weeks. However, if I run the network cables next to the power cables I'll have issues, yes? Is there any way around that? Can I get shielded ducting for underground use (at reasonable cost)? (I was initially just intending to run the cat5e cable through irrigation hose until I remembered the potential interference issues.) There won't be interference issues, but there might be wiring code issues. Telecom regulations say that phonelines should be 50mm from electrical lines within buildings, but not outside[1]. There might be similar requirements for electrical wires next to water pipes. I would run 2 cat5e cables through irrigation tube and keep this 50mm away from the electrical conduit all along the trench. A [1] http://www.telecom.co.nz/binarys/step_by_step_2_wire.pdf
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk wrote: I would run 2 cat5e cables through irrigation tube and keep this 50mm away from the electrical conduit all along the trench. I'd probably go for Cat6 ( or in extreme cases, cat7) these days, its probably insanely over the top, but considering 1. Plausible Electrical Interference sources. 2. Likely 50m length of run. 3. Cabling Permenance likely once its set down. I'd probably prefer to future proof instead of having to rip stuff up if you ever need something faster or more reslient. Cat6 is not substantially more costly than Cat5e these days, so I think it silly *NOT* to take that option. -- Kent
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Kerry Mayes wrote, On 17/05/09 22:46: I'm wanting to connect up my shed for power (3 phase), water and data (phone network). I have (with significant help) dug the trench to the shed and will be organising the connections in the next few weeks. However, if I run the network cables next to the power cables I'll have issues, yes? Is there any way around that? Can I get shielded ducting for underground use (at reasonable cost)? (I was initially just intending to run the cat5e cable through irrigation hose until I remembered the potential interference issues.) 3 Phase power ? What kind of servers are you putting out there? You could run STP instead of UTP cable, and have a shielded patch panel or jack at each end. Regardless - whatever you do, run a decent sized piece of conduit so that in later times you can push/pull more cable through without digging again. Conduit should be 100% waterproof. I'd put the water at the bottom of the trench, some sand on top, then the power, more sand, then the data conduit. Minimum of two links, preferably four. -- Craig Falconer
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Sun 17 May 2009 22:45:45 NZST +1200, Kerry Mayes wrote: Not OT IMHO, although not restricted to Linux. I'm wanting to connect up my shed for power (3 phase), Woow, talk about green computing! The water is for the PC cooling...? ;) water and data (phone network). I have (with significant help) dug the trench to the shed and will be organising the connections in the next few weeks. However, if I run the network cables next to the power cables I'll have issues, yes? Yes. For starters, the power cables are legally required to be in conduit of their own, and with good reason. You can not use garden hose as conduit underground. It is not rot resistant in permanently damp environments. Use min 32mm PVC tubing, pulling the 4th cable in with a pullstring will probably work if it isn't too long or has too many bends, but anything above that and use 50mm PVC tubing. Compare effort of digging it up again with extra cost now. Make damn sure you use the large-radius bends if you plan on putting a pullstring in (good idea!), and be aware that what a lot of people in trade call large radius most definitely isn't. As reference, leave anything 25cm radius in the shop and don't listen to sales staff. Shielded ducting is a dead idea. No such thing. You will run the risk of interference issues if the power and data conduits are too close together. I'd aim for min 10-15cm separation (legally they may touch) for short runs, more for longer. The annoying thing is that you won't know whether you have a problem until it's too late and you're looking at starting over. Your only chance at shielding is using STP instead of UTP cable. It's expensive. Shorter lengths up to 50m can be obtained cheaply as stranded with a plug on each end from the patch cable corner, if you can handle crimping plugs for stranded cable (don't mix them up, it won'te be reliable) and find a way to hook it up to the patch panel. You can't crimp stranded cable into patch panel sockets, they're always for solid core. Consider leaving the plugs on the cable and not running it through the panel, connecting it straight where you want it. Putting the water between the other two *may* give you a bit of extra shielding, and will help your separation. Putting the data conduit on top makes it easiest to access in case you run out of space... (avoid nots and twists at all cost when pulling the cables in), however the top one will catch the lightning first - which probably doesn't matter because after a hit like that you'll be looking at a lot of charcoal anyway. Using CAT5e instead of going straight for 6 is lousy idea and very bad economics. If a few $100 extra pale in comparison with the money you're spending on that shed, go for CAT7 STP. There are cheap sources for data cabling and all that stuff. For PVC conduit try Bunnings (I think the others didn't have all the bits), but you really want to use someone's trade account because those electro buggers are a serious ripoff - but talking to them nicely sometimes makes prices reasonable. For a laugh and some cautionary tales read http://volker.top.geek.nz/linux/tech/outdoorwiring.html Which reminds me, make sure your house and shed have their earths solidly connected! HTH, Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Volker Kuhlmann wrote, On 18/05/09 10:25: Which reminds me, make sure your house and shed have their earths solidly connected! Is it worth running an earth wire in the trench ? Or is that going to be bad later? -- Craig Falconer
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Thanks for all the help here, Just to clarify, the shed is to be multi-use, I intend to work on cars out there so will obviously need to have the workshop manuals up on the computer screen ... (3 phase is for my next compressor ...) Also, this is on a lifestyle block so set up is a little different to a suburban situation. The power and water are coming from the pump shed that has the water pump for the house supply and meter box (separate fuse box in the house). It is about 8-10 metres from the shed and a similar distance from the house. (I will still need another trench for the data connection to the house but that should be easier.) I'll check with the electrician but may try to go power, water, data. I had intended using 50mm irrigation tube for the data. I still have an account with a wholesale irrigation place. 5e was because I have some solid core already, but yeah, I don't want to dig this trench again! If I can't set up the duct to allow easy replacement then I'll get some cat 6 or 7. Can some one tell me the difference between STP vs UTP? Kerry
USB to VGA
Hi. I have a small scale laptop with a 23cm (just about) screen. It is capable of resolutions up to 1024 X 600. The devise, however doesn't have a VGA out and I want to plug the thing into a data projector. There are USB to VGA adapters, but I'm having a bit of trouble finding one that works with Linux (EdUbuntu 8.04). Any thoughts or suggestions? Leif
RE: OT: Cabling to a shed
-Original Message- From: Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz Yes. For starters, the power cables are legally required to be in conduit of their own, and with good reason. Not quite correct. Separation is mandatory and protection is recommended. Protection can be as simple as tanalised timber above the cable. Of course conduit is highly recommended though for lots of good reasons. Rob
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Kerry Mayes ke...@mayes.co.nz wrote: Also, this is on a lifestyle block so set up is a little different to a suburban situation. If you're out of the city and likely to have electric fences I'd want even more reason to properly insulate things properly. I don't know about the technical details, but I was at a place once where there was a leaking electric fence and for some reason made the showers taps electrocute you. I really don't like the idea of that messing with computers. Somebody else will hopefully know more on electric-fence precautions than I. -- Kent
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Kerry Mayes wrote, On 18/05/09 12:20: Can some one tell me the difference between STP vs UTP? STP Shielded Twisted Pair UTP Unshielded Twisted Pair STP has a layer of foil around the outside of the 4 copper pairs, which is supposed to be connected to a metal shield around the outside of your RJ45 plug. Similar to the shield around audio cable... supposed to stop/limit RF interference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11189-0.html?forumID=3threadID=185944 -- Craig Falconer
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Robert Fisher wrote: -Original Message- From: Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz Yes. For starters, the power cables are legally required to be in conduit of their own, and with good reason. Not quite correct. Separation is mandatory and protection is recommended. Protection can be as simple as tanalised timber above the cable. Of course conduit is highly recommended though for lots of good reasons. Rob When I 'undergrounded' my street feed I was advised to bury the cable directly in the ground for the cooling effect of the earth. If I had used a conduit then I would have had to use the next larger wire size. The price difference was significant to me at least. I imagine for 3-phase the difference will be even greater.
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
When I 'undergrounded' my street feed I was advised to bury the cable directly in the ground for the cooling effect of the earth. If I had used a conduit then I would have had to use the next larger wire size. The price difference was significant to me at least. I imagine for 3-phase the difference will be even greater. Interesting point. Talk to your sparky. I doubt you're allowed to bury the usual cables straight, you probably need tougher stuff rated for underground. But the extra plastic may be way cheaper than the extra copper these days. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: USB to VGA
Leif Keane wrote, On 18/05/09 12:46: Hi. I have a small scale laptop with a 23cm (just about) screen. It is capable of resolutions up to 1024 X 600. The devise, however doesn't have a VGA out and I want to plug the thing into a data projector. There are USB to VGA adapters, but I'm having a bit of trouble finding one that works with Linux (EdUbuntu 8.04). Any thoughts or suggestions? https://www.aquilatech.co.nz/productDetail.asp?idProduct=USB-VGA060 You need a ballsy CPU to run them thought. There's an in-kernel module called sisusb, which supports Net2280-based USB dongles. http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/hci/x.org/X11R7.0/doc/html/sisusb.4.html or man sisusb for more info. -- Craig Falconer The Total Team - Managed Systems Office: 0800 888 326 / +643 974 9128 Email: workor...@totalteam.co.nz Web: http://www.totalteam.co.nz/
RE: USB to VGA
-Original Message- From: Leif Keane l...@stmargarets.school.nz To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: 18/05/09 12:09 p.m. Subject: USB to VGA Any thoughts or suggestions? Use another computer for the display and connect to the laptop using VNC?
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Mon 18 May 2009 10:55:40 NZST +1200, Craig Falconer wrote: Which reminds me, make sure your house and shed have their earths solidly connected! Is it worth running an earth wire in the trench ? Or is that going to be bad later? I don't see any disadvantage. The house will have its own earth stake, the shed doesn't need one depending on its size, but given a 3-phase supply to the shed (holy bananas, what a shed) I'd be surprised if the sparky wasn't insisting on another stake for the shed. Good idea in any case. If the shed has no own earth, an earth connection in the trench is a must as the house earth stake is used for the shed. Otherwise it's strictly speaking optional and costs money. The issue with house and shed on different earths is that those earths need not have the same potential, which you won't ever notice until you run cables from one to the other. The difference may be big enought to hurt, though shouldn't kill (if it gets that big there's another problem). For data cabling though this can generate additional noise, and that can be a nuisance to deal with. One way of dealing with it is to put an Ethernet switch at the end of each cable on one side, and to treat those cable plugs as potentially charged. As an aside, it's also possible to connect house and shed each to a single phase, but a different one for load balancing. That'll probably give you more noise between the buildings, as well as 380V, not 240V, between the wall outlets. Disclaimer: I'm an electrical engineer, not a sparky. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Mon, 18 May 2009 11:45:48 +1200 Robert Fisher rob...@fisher.net.nz wrote: -Original Message- From: Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz Yes. For starters, the power cables are legally required to be in conduit of their own, and with good reason. Not quite correct. Separation is mandatory and protection is recommended. Protection can be as simple as tanalised timber above the cable. Of course conduit is highly recommended though for lots of good reasons. Rob Don't forget the all-important piece of red plastic warning tape... (: -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Kent Fredric kentfred...@gmail.com wrote: technical details, but I was at a place once where there was a leaking electric fence and for some reason made the showers taps electrocute you. I really don't like the idea of that messing with computers. Somebody else will hopefully know more on electric-fence precautions than I. I must add one more to my list of things to never do on an electric fence ... 'take a shower' ... I already knew of couple of major water-related warnings ... -jim
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
Steve Holdoway wrote, On 18/05/09 14:06: Don't forget the all-important piece of red plastic warning tape... I remember finding one of those over 3 metres from where the cable really ran. Turns out frost can make buried stuff move around in the soil. -- Craig Falconer
Re: Kubuntu help please
2009/5/17 Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com: My Kubuntu PPC 8.10 - 9.04 upgrade locked me out of my Mac G4. Have you any idea why? I did not investigate. I only use it to check email and browse the web, and OS X is still on it, so it is not something I want to spend much time on, no data I need to save. I would get a KDE login screen but could not login. Also the screen locks and slowly goes white when I try to switch to another console, or log into a text session. I am very interested to hear this because it is quite a possibility that I will be asked to install a KDE based application on a PPC Mac portable. This is a PowerBook Ti 500 - and it seems to differ from other PowerBook Ti's - most posts on the Ubuntu PPC forum about PB Ti's refer to different video cards and some other hardware. Installing was a pain - mainly because of the graphics. I had to install a text system then install X and KDE (using the alternate CD). Should not have set it up to boot into a graphical login. I never got suspend to disk to work correctly. I would check for problems with the specific hardware. I always thought that there was not that much variation with Macs - not as much as there is in the x86 world, anyway - but there seems to be more than I thought. You should really ask if it is worth it. I have been trying 9.04 - and as soon as I work out one problem, I hit another one. Can't find the CD I booted off - can't find repositories - can download but not install software ... etc All similar - but not quite the same as 8.10 :-( -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
On Sun, 2009-05-17 at 22:45 +1200, Kerry Mayes wrote: I'm wanting to connect up my shed for power (3 phase), water and data (phone network). I have (with significant help) dug the trench to the shed and will be organising the connections in the next few weeks. However, if I run the network cables next to the power cables I'll have issues, yes? Is there any way around that? Can I get shielded ducting for underground use (at reasonable cost)? Yes you can get good shielding. Last year I had a small office cabled with power, phone and ethernet. The power cable had some extra shielding which was really quite cheap and has been very effective - no noise or any noticeable issues on either the phone or network.
Re: OT: Cabling to a shed
I previously asked the sparky to change the house pump to a different phase to the house itself - I expected it to help with the power fluctuations caused by the pump motor starting up. However, it had no discernible effect. 2009/5/18 Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz: As an aside, it's also possible to connect house and shed each to a single phase, but a different one for load balancing. That'll probably give you more noise between the buildings, as well as 380V, not 240V, between the wall outlets. Disclaimer: I'm an electrical engineer, not a sparky. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: USB to VGA
On Mon, May 18, 2009 09:09, Leif Keane wrote: Hi. I have a small scale laptop with a 23cm (just about) screen. It is capable of resolutions up to 1024 X 600. The devise, however doesn't have a VGA out and I want to plug the thing into a data projector. There are USB to VGA adapters, but I'm having a bit of trouble finding one that works with Linux (EdUbuntu 8.04). Any thoughts or suggestions? What model of laptop is it? Does it have *any* additional output? (s-video, HDMI, etc.) A
