Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:48:45 +1000 James McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason Joines wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines Even Microsoft can't make Microsoft servers work. Send the CIO this URI as noted on the list. Microsoft hides behind Linux for protection http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39115920,00.htm -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
qmail Assuming he at least has an open mind. You might point out the HUGE security risks that he will be placing the University into if he goes the MS route... Look at Sobig, and believe it or not my office was brought down by Nachi, the IT dept is node 253 of tertiary adjunct 46, it arrived as an attachment, right through an Exchange mail server with McAfees big commercial setup. An idiot, in the DA's office, where else, clicked on it and we are in our 3rd day of cleanup, it shutdown whole depts. Every unpatched Win2000 box that was turned on and connected to the network was infected within minutes, I am serious, nearly a thousand machines... We have a very nice network infrastructure so it moved real fast. And Nachi isn't an email worm. Shawn On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:00:25-0500 Jason Joines[EMAIL PROTECTED] professed: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:00:25 -0500 Jason Joines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? If he's serious about Exchange with 50k+ users, I suggest you find a new job (the recent posting to this list comes to mind). Not even M$ can get this to work. You'll need one exchange server per 500 users (so 100+ Win2k systems running Exchange should work) -- or, one Linux box using something like PowerMail (and PostgreSQL), although I'd suggest 3 systems for good failover capability. Also, the PowerMail solution will cost you about half a million $$$ less and not have nearly the headaches. BTW, to run 100+ Win2k servers, you'll need at least 10 more Windoze admins too (not included in above cost savings estimate, so estimate over $1,000,000 in savings per year). OTOH, if this guys importance is measured in terms of the size of his budget and not his successful accomplishments, only M$ will do. M$, the empire builders' dream. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. Nemesis Racing Team motto GPG key autoresponder: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
I only know what I've read about it, but it sounds like Ximian Evolution would be just the product for you: http://www.ximian.com/products/evolution/ cmr On Wednesday 27 August 2003 09:00 am, you wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines Open Source = Open Mind ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Debian 'Sarge': Registered Linux User #241964 More laws, less justice. -- Marcus Tullius Ciceroca, 42 BC ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Joines wrote: | We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is | about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one | big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about | 50,000 users. | | At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino | on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet | Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on | windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to | consider non-exchange options. | | Any suggestions? | | Thanks, | | Jason Joines | Open Source = Open Mind | phpgroupware. http://phpgroupware.com - -- Andrew Mathews - - ~ 10:24am up 9 days, 9:11, 10 users, load average: 1.54, 1.27, 1.21 - - There is an old time toast which is golden for its beauty. When you ascend the hill of prosperity may you not meet a friend. -- Mark Twain - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/TNzMidHQ0m/kEssRAp4+AJ49nl27MXWuk7KUOyVOlvsDbaY9SACfXATy m0fiAxdAS/CRaOTFB8MPZzA= =ibtJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
David A. Bandel wrote: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:00:25 -0500 Jason Joines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? If he's serious about Exchange with 50k+ users, I suggest you find a new job (the recent posting to this list comes to mind). Not even M$ can get this to work. You'll need one exchange server per 500 users (so 100+ Win2k systems running Exchange should work) -- or, one Linux box using something like PowerMail (and PostgreSQL), although I'd suggest 3 systems for good failover capability. Also, the PowerMail solution will cost you about half a million $$$ less and not have nearly the headaches. BTW, to run 100+ Win2k servers, you'll need at least 10 more Windoze admins too (not included in above cost savings estimate, so estimate over $1,000,000 in savings per year). OTOH, if this guys importance is measured in terms of the size of his budget and not his successful accomplishments, only M$ will do. M$, the empire builders' dream. Ciao, David A. Bandel ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users If anyone has a copy of that post or remembers the subject so I can search for it, please send it to me. Thanks, Jason === ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
On 8/27/2003 12:31 PM, someone claiming to be Andrew Mathews wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Joines wrote: | We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is | about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one | big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about | 50,000 users. | | At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino | on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet | Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on | windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to | consider non-exchange options. | | Any suggestions? | | Thanks, | | Jason Joines | Open Source = Open Mind | phpgroupware. http://phpgroupware.com Do you use it? I've looked at it for our small network here, but haven't tried to implement it yet. Tim ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
Ya, evolkution is an Outlook clone. Its not an exchange clone, AFAIK. On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Tim Wunder wrote: Isn't that just for the client end, to connect to the servers? On 8/27/2003 12:03 PM, someone claiming to be Mike Reinehr wrote: I only know what I've read about it, but it sounds like Ximian Evolution would be just the product for you: http://www.ximian.com/products/evolution/ cmr On Wednesday 27 August 2003 09:00 am, you wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines Open Source = Open Mind ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
I should have remembered the proverb: Better to be silent and let people think you are a fool, than to speak and let them know it. My bad. Spoke about something I know nothing about. cmr On Wednesday 27 August 2003 12:16 pm, you wrote: Ya, evolkution is an Outlook clone. Its not an exchange clone, AFAIK. On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Tim Wunder wrote: Isn't that just for the client end, to connect to the servers? On 8/27/2003 12:03 PM, someone claiming to be Mike Reinehr wrote: I only know what I've read about it, but it sounds like Ximian Evolution would be just the product for you: http://www.ximian.com/products/evolution/ cmr On Wednesday 27 August 2003 09:00 am, you wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines Open Source = Open Mind ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Debian 'Sarge': Registered Linux User #241964 More laws, less justice. -- Marcus Tullius Ciceroca, 42 BC ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Wunder wrote: [...] | | phpgroupware. | http://phpgroupware.com | | | Do you use it? I've looked at it for our small network here, but haven't | tried to implement it yet. | | Tim Yes. We have around 2000 users and it works quite well. phpgroupware/sendmail/MIMEDefang/clamav gives us shared calendars, global address books, check in/out functions, web, pop3 imap4 mail, spam filtering, anti virus scanning all in one system that doesn't even yawn at 15,000 messages a day. (before sobig blaster) Total cost? $0. Compared to 4 Exchange servers at $1,200 per, plus $50 per client license (x 2000) to connect = $104,800. To try to be a proponent of a solution like Microsoft offers would definitely be a valid argument of more money than brains We've made some worthwhile contributions to mail-abuse.org, phpgroupware, sendmail, spamcop.net and other open source providers though. - -- Andrew Mathews - - ~ 11:08am up 9 days, 9:55, 10 users, load average: 1.11, 1.11, 1.09 - - If you knew what to say next, would you say it? - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/TOmMidHQ0m/kEssRArAjAJ0bAOLx3wdg3lCFsg5bLagPGdlVngCggnv0 32uv23El5oewshZywJylxcs= =Ku4/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
Jason Joines [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:00:25 -0500 We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines The recent virii incidents ought to be sufficiently fresh to make a point about downtime vulnerability. At the U of MN students can connect inside the firewall. A single machine infected outside and then logging in inside will compleatly bypass the firewall. I am not sure about cost savings specifically but linux should mean fewer machines, therefore fewer support resources, therefore fewer ongoing costs. In the current economy, universities seem to be getting squeezed pretty good. It all depends on the CIO's goal. If he wants to have the largest staff and biggest budget, stress the threat of downtime. (It is already assumed that he is susceptible to FUD, at least from M$.) If he wants to show efficiency and budget cutting know how, stress simplicity and cost savings. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Wunder wrote: [...] | | phpgroupware. | http://phpgroupware.com | | | Do you use it? I've looked at it for our small network here, but haven't | tried to implement it yet. | | Tim Yes. We have around 2000 users and it works quite well. phpgroupware/sendmail/MIMEDefang/clamav gives us shared calendars, global address books, check in/out functions, web, pop3 imap4 mail, spam filtering, anti virus scanning all in one system that doesn't even yawn at 15,000 messages a day. (before sobig blaster) Total cost? $0. Compared to 4 Exchange servers at $1,200 per, plus $50 per client license (x 2000) to connect = $104,800. To try to be a proponent of a solution like Microsoft offers would definitely be a valid argument of more money than brains We've made some worthwhile contributions to mail-abuse.org, phpgroupware, sendmail, spamcop.net and other open source providers though. - -- Andrew Mathews I'mn surprised you haven't plugged SpamAssassin into the mix. Is there a reason for that? Gerry ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Gerry Doris wrote: I'mn surprised you haven't plugged SpamAssassin into the mix. Is there a reason for that? Maybe cause its track record lately isn't that great. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gerry Doris wrote: [...] |phpgroupware/sendmail/MIMEDefang/clamav gives us shared calendars, [...] | | I'mn surprised you haven't plugged SpamAssassin into the mix. Is there a | reason for that? | | Gerry We don't really need it. We run Symantec AV on a Sun Solaris box that uses dnsbls. Our spam has dropped by 95%+ and it wouldn't serve much purpose. By the time it gets to the system it's already been scanned for virii and checked against the appropriate blacklists. We also have 4 more dnsbls coded into sendmail for a total of 7 checks, plus zone files for the ones available on our dns servers, so lookups are not a large amount of external traffic. The internal queries are on a gigabit network. So all total, a single message is scanned for virii twice by two different av scanners, and checked against 7 blacklists, as well as the access list blocking capabilities of sendmail. Excellent instructions for this are available at: http://abuse.easynet.nl/spamlist-usage.html HTH- - -- Andrew Mathews - - ~ 1:12pm up 9 days, 11:58, 10 users, load average: 1.13, 1.14, 1.17 - - Higher education helps your earning capacity. Ask any college professor. - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/TQbpidHQ0m/kEssRAsCAAJ9gUw3N7O5fdZFI74t4lw/sYyIJFgCfRZQ3 ufnSSyAw3wAbcZXi4U6sXek= =7L3q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
Jason Joines wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. We run a single M$ E2K server for around 1000 users and it needs fairly intense admin... especially as the information stores are around the 200GB mark. Lotus Domino server will run on Linux so throw that in as an option for a more stable server over the W2K base. However Outlook is a better PIM than the Lotus Notes Variety. Will clients want to synchronize PDA's? etc There are solutions provided by the big linux providers http://www.suse.de/en/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Ideas for Mail and Calendaring for 50,000 Users
Jason Joines wrote: We just got a new CIO at the university where I work. One thing he is about to do is get rid of all the different mail systems and have one big combined system for all employees and students. That'll be about 50,000 users. At the moment the predominant faculty/staff mail system is Lotus Domino on windows 2k and the predominant system for students is Sun Internet Mail Server on Solaris. He intends to replace these with ms exchange on windows 2k. There is a small chance he will listen to suggestions to consider non-exchange options. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason Joines Open Source = Open Mind ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users http://groupware.openoffice.org/ ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
