Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-09 Thread Rick Sivernell

On Thursday 09 August 2001 09:42 am, you wrote:
> Rick,
> Thats it then, I always hate it when I lock myself in and have to crawl out
> a window. And it sounds like you're having a better day already.
>
> Ronnie
>
> On Thursday 09 August 2001 07:18, you wrote:
> > On Wednesday 08 August 2001 08:19 pm, you wrote:
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > I've been playing since 83.
> > >
> > > The only rant I've read in this thread is yours.
> > >
> > > If you push your bed against the wall you cant fall out on the wrong
> > > side.
> > >
> > > Hope you have a better day tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Ronnie
> > >
> > > On Wednesday 08 August 2001 14:56, you wrote:
> > > > Ronnie
> > > >
> > > >   How long have you been in this computer world. Well the virus stuff
> > > > has been with us since the 80s and it will stay with us. What we all
> > > > need to do is protect ourselves the best we can. Backup systems and
> > > > other important data. This ranting is tiresome and it takes up the
> > > > band width. If you must have aconversation, great how about offline.
> > > >
> > > >   Thanks and you all have a great day.
> > > >
> > > > Rick Sivernell
> > > > Dallas, Texas  75287
> > > > 972 306-2296
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
> > > > Registered Linux User
> > > >
> > > > ? ? ? ? .~.
> > > > ? ? ? ?/ v \
> > > > ? ? ? /( _ )\
> > > > ? ? ? ? ^ ^
> > > > In Linux we trust!
> > > > ___
> >
> > Ronnie
> >
> >   What the heck you mean about walls, you have walls, I just have padded
> > area all around me so I don't hurt myself.

Actually everyday is a great day, I alive and kicking, able to get around 
while being round . Hell life is great.
-- 
Rick Sivernell
Dallas, Texas  75287
972 306-2296
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
Registered Linux User

? ? ? ? .~.
? ? ? ?/ v \
? ? ? /( _ )\
? ? ? ? ^ ^
In Linux we trust!
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-09 Thread Ronnie Gauthier

Rick,
Thats it then, I always hate it when I lock myself in and have to crawl out a 
window. And it sounds like you're having a better day already.

Ronnie

On Thursday 09 August 2001 07:18, you wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 August 2001 08:19 pm, you wrote:
> > Rick,
> >
> > I've been playing since 83.
> >
> > The only rant I've read in this thread is yours.
> >
> > If you push your bed against the wall you cant fall out on the wrong
> > side.
> >
> > Hope you have a better day tomorrow.
> >
> > Ronnie
> >
> > On Wednesday 08 August 2001 14:56, you wrote:
> > > Ronnie
> > >
> > >   How long have you been in this computer world. Well the virus stuff
> > > has been with us since the 80s and it will stay with us. What we all
> > > need to do is protect ourselves the best we can. Backup systems and
> > > other important data. This ranting is tiresome and it takes up the band
> > > width. If you must have aconversation, great how about offline.
> > >
> > >   Thanks and you all have a great day.
> > >
> > > Rick Sivernell
> > > Dallas, Texas  75287
> > > 972 306-2296
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
> > > Registered Linux User
> > >
> > > ? ? ? ? .~.
> > > ? ? ? ?/ v \
> > > ? ? ? /( _ )\
> > > ? ? ? ? ^ ^
> > > In Linux we trust!
> > > ___
>
> Ronnie
>
>   What the heck you mean about walls, you have walls, I just have padded
> area all around me so I don't hurt myself.

-- 
Ronnie
==
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it's all in your mind
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-09 Thread Rick Sivernell

On Wednesday 08 August 2001 08:19 pm, you wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I've been playing since 83.
>
> The only rant I've read in this thread is yours.
>
> If you push your bed against the wall you cant fall out on the wrong side.
>
> Hope you have a better day tomorrow.
>
> Ronnie
>
> On Wednesday 08 August 2001 14:56, you wrote:
> > Ronnie
> >
> >   How long have you been in this computer world. Well the virus stuff has
> > been with us since the 80s and it will stay with us. What we all need to
> > do is protect ourselves the best we can. Backup systems and other
> > important data. This ranting is tiresome and it takes up the band width.
> > If you must have aconversation, great how about offline.
> >
> >   Thanks and you all have a great day.
> >
> > Rick Sivernell
> > Dallas, Texas  75287
> > 972 306-2296
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
> > Registered Linux User
> >
> > ? ? ? ? .~.
> > ? ? ? ?/ v \
> > ? ? ? /( _ )\
> > ? ? ? ? ^ ^
> > In Linux we trust!
> > ___

Ronnie

  What the heck you mean about walls, you have walls, I just have padded area 
all around me so I don't hurt myself.
-- 
Rick Sivernell
Dallas, Texas  75287
972 306-2296
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
Registered Linux User

? ? ? ? .~.
? ? ? ?/ v \
? ? ? /( _ )\
? ? ? ? ^ ^
In Linux we trust!
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Linuxism Chang

that's why AIA is still in business. :)

> Of course no security is worth a damn if one doesn't have good
> verified backups.


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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Linuxism Chang

I never knew Acrobat PDF could execute codes to affect system 
files? god dam..  one more items in my blacklist. Gee.. I love my 
good old Wordstar 4.0. It would never run macros.

> Actually, the way I read this, the script is embedded in the PDF.  Not 
> clear on whether it only works with Acrobat full, or if it works in 
> Reader, but you just have to double-click the link instead of just 
> clicking.


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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Alan Jackson

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:54:49 -0500  Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have acrobat 5 
> and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and it  
> concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone with 
> acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its 
> possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could get 
> code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.

As I recall, it is possible that one could write a PostScript virus and
do some damage. Some PostScript interpreters will allow you to write files.
It's just a programming language...
-- 
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| Alan K. Jackson| To see a World in a Grain of Sand  |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, |
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| Houston, Texas | And Eternity in an hour. - Blake   |
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Ronnie Gauthier

Rick,

I've been playing since 83.

The only rant I've read in this thread is yours.

If you push your bed against the wall you cant fall out on the wrong side.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Ronnie

On Wednesday 08 August 2001 14:56, you wrote:
> Ronnie
>
>   How long have you been in this computer world. Well the virus stuff has
> been with us since the 80s and it will stay with us. What we all need to do
> is protect ourselves the best we can. Backup systems and other important
> data. This ranting is tiresome and it takes up the band width. If you must
> have aconversation, great how about offline.
>
>   Thanks and you all have a great day.
>
> Rick Sivernell
> Dallas, Texas  75287
> 972 306-2296
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1
> Registered Linux User
>
> ? ? ? ? .~.
> ? ? ? ?/ v \
> ? ? ? /( _ )\
> ? ? ? ? ^ ^
> In Linux we trust!
> ___
> http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc
> ->http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users

-- 
Ronnie
==
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it's all in your mind
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Ronnie Gauthier

That was my point exactly. We all trust pdf files implicitly and open them 
without a thought of potential harm to our systems. If pdf's can carry 
executeable code its only a matter of time before linux also becomes a victim 
of these sort of virii. The fact that right now it seems to be limited to 
full versions of acrobat mean its just a matter of time before the reader is 
compromised also. If/when the reader is compromised linux will at that time 
be vulnerable. Code is code and if vb can be used so could chunks of other 
languages or shell scripts.
If anyone has followed some recent happenings in the ebook world you will 
know that adobes security is already being deeply questioned as is their 
response to the matter(not talking about diemitry). What other pitfalls lurk 
in their code?!?

Ronnie

On Wednesday 08 August 2001 11:10, you wrote:
> Not so far...but the ability of PDFs and Acrobat to do something like this
> means we can't look at PDFs as innocuous.  I mean most people have felt
> nearly as safe opening a PDF to see what it is as a text file.
>
> At 10:13 AM 8/8/01 -0500, Jim Conner wrote:
> >The way I read this is that it needs Acrobat full it will not work with
> >Acrobat Reader.  Since Acrobat full isn't ported to Linux, we are immune.
> >Also, it will need MS Outlook and a way to run a vbs script.  Only Windows
> >systems that have Acrobat full and MS Outlook installed will be
> > vulnerable. This doesn't seem to be a new linux virus.
> >
> >Jim
>
> Stuart Biggerstaff
>

Ronnie
==
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Glenn Williams

The article reference that was posted here (yesterday?) said it does 
^^not^^ work in Acrobat Reader - only in the full Acrobat program.

FWIW

Regards,

Glenn

On Wednesday 08 August 2001 09:00 am, Stuart Biggerstaff observed:
> Actually, the way I read this, the script is embedded in the PDF. 
> Not clear on whether it only works with Acrobat full, or if it works
> in Reader, but you just have to double-click the link instead of just
> clicking.
>
> At 09:56 AM 8/8/01 +0800, you wrote:
> >it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
> >get the script executed...right?
> >
> >Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> >>not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
> >>http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
> >
> >_
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
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> Stuart Biggerstaff
>
> Linda Hall Library
> 5109 Cherry
> Kansas City, MO 64110
>
> Phone:  (816) 926-8748
>  (800) 662-1545 x748
> FAX:(816) 926-8785
> URL:www.lindahall.org
>
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Stuart Biggerstaff

Not so far...but the ability of PDFs and Acrobat to do something like this 
means we can't look at PDFs as innocuous.  I mean most people have felt 
nearly as safe opening a PDF to see what it is as a text file.

At 10:13 AM 8/8/01 -0500, Jim Conner wrote:
>The way I read this is that it needs Acrobat full it will not work with
>Acrobat Reader.  Since Acrobat full isn't ported to Linux, we are immune.
>Also, it will need MS Outlook and a way to run a vbs script.  Only Windows
>systems that have Acrobat full and MS Outlook installed will be vulnerable.
>This doesn't seem to be a new linux virus.
>
>Jim



Stuart Biggerstaff

Linda Hall Library
5109 Cherry
Kansas City, MO 64110

Phone:  (816) 926-8748
 (800) 662-1545 x748
FAX:(816) 926-8785
URL:www.lindahall.org

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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Bill Campbell

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 09:08:17AM -0400, Steve Thompson - UG wrote:

>i don't quite understand this logic.  i can see where you don't want to
>reload if you get a virus, BUT if i get a linux virus and it deletes
>everything in my home. i'm gonna lose everything that is important. i can
>reload my workstation and setup the firewalls and such. i dont want to lose
>my important stuff. i understand from a server standpoint, but everyone
>saysno big deal, you'll only lose whats in your user id, well thats the
>important stuff to me.  i just burn it to a cd as a backup.  anyway  my
>0.02c

If one is truly paranoid about dealing with things like this,
it's easy enough to set up a user on the system specifically for
internet use, and do all browsing as that user.  It's even easy
to do using ssh.  ``ssh -l safeuser -f opera'' will start up
opera running as safeuser in safeuser's home directory.  This way
only things under that home directory is vulnerable.

Of course no security is worth a damn if one doesn't have good
verified backups.

Bill
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Jim Conner

The way I read this is that it needs Acrobat full it will not work with 
Acrobat Reader.  Since Acrobat full isn't ported to Linux, we are immune.  
Also, it will need MS Outlook and a way to run a vbs script.  Only Windows 
systems that have Acrobat full and MS Outlook installed will be vulnerable.  
This doesn't seem to be a new linux virus.

Jim

On Wednesday August 08, 2001 10:00 am, Stuart Biggerstaff wrote:
> Actually, the way I read this, the script is embedded in the PDF.  Not
> clear on whether it only works with Acrobat full, or if it works in Reader,
> but you just have to double-click the link instead of just clicking.
>
> At 09:56 AM 8/8/01 +0800, you wrote:
> >it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
> >get the script executed...right?
> >
> >Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> >>not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
> >>http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
> >

-- 
 
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Running Caldera eD2.4 - Linux - because life is too short for reboots...

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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Stuart Biggerstaff

Actually, the way I read this, the script is embedded in the PDF.  Not 
clear on whether it only works with Acrobat full, or if it works in Reader, 
but you just have to double-click the link instead of just clicking.


At 09:56 AM 8/8/01 +0800, you wrote:
>it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
>get the script executed...right?
>
>Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
>>not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
>>http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
>
>
>
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Stuart Biggerstaff

Linda Hall Library
5109 Cherry
Kansas City, MO 64110

Phone:  (816) 926-8748
 (800) 662-1545 x748
FAX:(816) 926-8785
URL:www.lindahall.org

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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread David A. Bandel

Steve Thompson - UG wrote:
> 
> i don't quite understand this logic.  i can see where you don't want to reload if 
>you get a
> virus, BUT if i get a linux virus and it deletes everything in my home. i'm gonna 
>lose
> everything that is important. i can reload my workstation and setup the firewalls 
>and such. i
> dont want to lose my important stuff. i understand from a server standpoint, but 
>everyone
> saysno big deal, you'll only lose whats in your user id, well thats the 
>important stuff to
> me.  i just burn it to a cd as a backup.
> anyway  my 0.02c
> 

Two things you can do to protect what's in your home directory:

set u=r so that if you try to delete the file you're asked if you really
want to.

if you're using ext2 (won't work with reiserfs) as root, use chattr and
set the i (impermeable) attribute.  Now, even root can't delete this
file -- it's impermeable.

Ciao,

David A. Bandel
-- 
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-- Nemesis Racing Team motto
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Roger Oberholtzer

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:08:17 -0400
Steve Thompson - UG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Perhaps a script that switches you to another user when you surf so that
whatever you do then does not effect your 'real' stuff. Then, when you
trust your new stuff, take ownership. This could be a real neat feature
of, say, konqueror - run as some other user so file ownership, and more
importantly, file downloads, don't mess with the 'real' stuff.

| i don't quite understand this logic.  i can see where you don't want to reload if 
|you get a
| virus, BUT if i get a linux virus and it deletes everything in my home. i'm gonna 
|lose
| everything that is important. i can reload my workstation and setup the firewalls 
|and such. i
| dont want to lose my important stuff. i understand from a server standpoint, but 
|everyone
| saysno big deal, you'll only lose whats in your user id, well thats the 
|important stuff to
| me.  i just burn it to a cd as a backup.
| anyway  my 0.02c
| 
| steve thompson
| 
| Ian Marchak wrote:
| 
| > Quoting Ronnie Gauthier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
| >
| > > I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have
| > > acrobat 5
| > > and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and
| > > it
| > > concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone
| > > with
| > > acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its
| > > possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could
| > > get
| > > code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.
| >
| > The worst you could do is bung up your user...as long as you aren't surfing as
| > root.  Hence the repetitive cautions of many listgoers to newbies (not saying
| > you're one) not to surf as root.
| >
| > However, this is apparently only an Acrobat (creator not reader) issue.
| > --
| > Linux SxS [http://members.home.net/linuxsteps/
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Ian Marchak

Quoting Steve Thompson - UG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> i don't quite understand this logic.  i can see where you don't want to
> reload if you get a
> virus, BUT if i get a linux virus and it deletes everything in my home.
> i'm gonna lose
> everything that is important. i can reload my workstation and setup the
> firewalls and such. i
> dont want to lose my important stuff. i understand from a server
> standpoint, but everyone
> saysno big deal, you'll only lose whats in your user id, well thats
> the important stuff to
> me.  i just burn it to a cd as a backup.
> anyway  my 0.02c

OK, so you have a backup of /home, and the rest of your system is protected by 
permissions preventing serious damage by a regular user.

This means that you may loose a day or two of work depending on your backup 
schedule, but the system will still be there to restore the backup onto.

In windows, the user data is shot, the OS is often shot too, you are completely 
SOL in M$ with many viruses...with or without a virus scanner.

Sure it sucks to loose work and personal data...but at least you don't have to 
reinstall the whole piece of s#!t OS evey time some user decides that it'd be 
neat to run the unknown executable from some stange guy in a country they've 
never heard of.  Or when some kiddie finds a way to emebd a visual basic script 
in some new type of document.

When linux is used in a true multi-user environment, and of the 'N' users only 
the guy who was dumb enough to D/L and double click 'IamNotAVirus.vbs' looses 
out...sounds like good logic to me!


> Ian Marchak wrote:

> > The worst you could do is bung up your user...as long as you aren't
> surfing as
> > root.  Hence the repetitive cautions of many listgoers to newbies (not
> saying
> > you're one) not to surf as root.
> >
> > However, this is apparently only an Acrobat (creator not reader)
> issue.
> > --
> > Linux SxS [http://members.home.net/linuxsteps/

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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Steve Thompson - UG

i don't quite understand this logic.  i can see where you don't want to reload if you 
get a
virus, BUT if i get a linux virus and it deletes everything in my home. i'm gonna lose
everything that is important. i can reload my workstation and setup the firewalls and 
such. i
dont want to lose my important stuff. i understand from a server standpoint, but 
everyone
saysno big deal, you'll only lose whats in your user id, well thats the important 
stuff to
me.  i just burn it to a cd as a backup.
anyway  my 0.02c

steve thompson

Ian Marchak wrote:

> Quoting Ronnie Gauthier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have
> > acrobat 5
> > and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and
> > it
> > concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone
> > with
> > acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its
> > possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could
> > get
> > code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.
>
> The worst you could do is bung up your user...as long as you aren't surfing as
> root.  Hence the repetitive cautions of many listgoers to newbies (not saying
> you're one) not to surf as root.
>
> However, this is apparently only an Acrobat (creator not reader) issue.
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Ian Marchak

Quoting Ronnie Gauthier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have
> acrobat 5 
> and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and
> it  
> concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone
> with 
> acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its 
> possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could
> get 
> code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.

The worst you could do is bung up your user...as long as you aren't surfing as 
root.  Hence the repetitive cautions of many listgoers to newbies (not saying 
you're one) not to surf as root.

However, this is apparently only an Acrobat (creator not reader) issue.
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-08 Thread Tim Wunder

According to what I just read, 
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5095366,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp02
it only affects the full version, not Acrobat Reader.

But it's interesting that "Using PDF bypasses the filters in newer 
versions of Outlook that ordinarily screen out VBScript files".

Regards,
Tim


Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have acrobat 5 
> and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and it  
> concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone with 
> acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its 
> possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could get 
> code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.
> 
> Ronnie
> 
> On Tuesday 07 August 2001 20:56, you wrote:
> 
>>it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
>>get the script executed...right?
>>
>>Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
>>
>>>not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
>>>
>>>http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
>>>
>>_
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-07 Thread Ronnie Gauthier

I think so, AFAIK, ms products run pdf's without challenge. I have acrobat 5 
and it opens fully when I click a pdf file. I use pdf's quite a bit and it  
concerns me that if this gets more work and wider spread that anyone with 
acrobat will be extremely vulnerable to a system attack. Also that its 
possible that with more work that even on the linux side someone could get 
code to execute when the plugin is run to open the pdf file.

Ronnie

On Tuesday 07 August 2001 20:56, you wrote:
> it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
> get the script executed...right?
>
> Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> > not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
> >
> > http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
>
> _
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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-- 
Ronnie
==
Life can be a dream; or it can be a nightmare
it's all in your mind
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Re: adobe pdf virus

2001-08-07 Thread Linuxism Chang

it uses the PDF extension only so that file association could
get the script executed...right?

Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
> not sure if this is real but it sounds like it is.
> 
> http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt
> 
> 



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