Re: [Linux-users] WAS Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete NOW Evolution connection
On Fri 12 Oct 2012 11:57:20 NZDT +1300, Jim Cheetham wrote: It would help, except for the fact that Evolution/GNOME(?) have simply ignored the whole use-case of I do not want Network Manager to manage my network, but I have not uninstalled it. NM is a user-based tool, which is very good if you have to use personal credentials to access the network (i.e. corporate wifi mainly, or most VPNs). NM is a complete total waste of disk space for VPN. Why? To make it connect, you need one more critical option in the openvpn configuration file to meet the security level of the openvpn server. Does NM allow you to put it in? Oh hells bells! We do not allow users to just add any odd configuration option - that's too dangerous, even as root, we need to nanny users to prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot. We know what's best for you(TM). Dickheads. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Fri 12 Oct 2012 21:50:47 NZDT +1300, chris wrote: gmail accepts imap... using dialup? Yes. Dialup is a method to connect to the Internet. How you connect to the Internet is totally irrelevant for how you connect to your mail server. I don't expect the traffic volume to be substantially different between imap and pop. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:50:47 +1300 chris wrote: On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 17:57 +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 17:50 +1300, chris wrote: On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 17:34 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: snip open to try anything (within limits). :-) As long as you are accessing your email via imap (you are aren't you?) you can try them all and see what you like. No, a dial up conection using pop. :-( gmail accepts imap... using dialup? Why should/would using dialup make any difference? John ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 21:58 +1300, John wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:50:47 +1300 chris wrote: snip using dialup? Why should/would using dialup make any difference? John asking because of lack of knowledge on my part, so thank you your reply has answered my query. Regards Chris ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: On Fri 12 Oct 2012 21:50:47 NZDT +1300, chris wrote: gmail accepts imap... using dialup? Yes. Dialup is a method to connect to the Internet. How you connect to the Internet is totally irrelevant for how you connect to your mail server. I don't expect the traffic volume to be substantially different between imap and pop. Volker Actually, IMAP could even help you save some of your preciously few dial-up bytes, because, unlike POP usually does, it does not download the entire message content, but just a listing of messages on the server. Managing messages on the server, most importantly deleting all the rubbish _without_ having to download it first, is a lot easier with IMAP in comparison to POP. Regarding the claim some made here that all email clients suck... agreed, obviously with the one notable exception of pine / alpine... I have been using pine for about two decades now, and it still beats everything else in terms of efficiency. It works fine with either POP or IMAP, and also with local mailbox files. This leads on to another question - and this may already have been covered by someone here, so sorry if I missed it and it's redundant: the mail client itself doesn't really have to work with either POP or IMAP if it can work with local mailbox files. An architecture that was quite common in the days of dial-up was using fetchmail to get the mail using POP, storing it in local files (often using procmail for filtering and sorting), and the mail client would then open these files. For sending mail, it would dispatch to the local MTA (often sendmail or postfix), which could be configured to either request dial-on-demand or could monitor the connection status and dispatch the mail when the connection next came up. This approach would usually work with POP - I am not sure whether or how it would work with IMAP. Maybe a few more comments on pine: it is all text-based, and that makes it lean, small and fast. However it will call whatever other applications are required to display attachments. It has its own text-based view of HTML mails, which is what I am mostly using. Sometimes, when I get fancier HTML emails with lots of pictures, I simply ask pine to show them in the external browser (can be any web browser as per user configuration). Just some thoughts... Kind regards, Helmut. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Sat, 2012-10-13 at 11:16 +1300, Helmut Walle wrote: On Fri, 12 Oct 2012, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: snip Just some thoughts... Kind regards, Helmut. Many thanks to you all, and special thanks to Volker and Helmut. The information was exactly what I needed to move forward. At least, at my age Linux is preventing senility!! regards Chris ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 18:53 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: 2/ If installed on Gnome does it need lots of KDE stuff as well? Are you serious? What exactly is your problem here? Shall we pass a hat around so you can buy yourself a 10GB hard disk extension from Molten Media? Volker If you notice, the OP is on dialup, so an additional 150MB or so download is a big deal. Steve -- Steve Holdoway BSc(Hons) MIITP http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] WAS Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete NOW Evolution connection
On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 19:01 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: On Fri 12 Oct 2012 11:57:20 NZDT +1300, Jim Cheetham wrote: It would help, except for the fact that Evolution/GNOME(?) have simply ignored the whole use-case of I do not want Network Manager to manage my network, but I have not uninstalled it. NM is a user-based tool, which is very good if you have to use personal credentials to access the network (i.e. corporate wifi mainly, or most VPNs). NM is a complete total waste of disk space for VPN. Why? To make it connect, you need one more critical option in the openvpn configuration file to meet the security level of the openvpn server. Does NM allow you to put it in? Oh hells bells! We do not allow users to just add any odd configuration option - that's too dangerous, even as root, we need to nanny users to prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot. We know what's best for you(TM). Dickheads. Volker I do not use NM for my VPNs, just the main network connection. There is no requirement to do so for OpenVPN. So, it's a simple workaround in your case. Stupid, but simple. Steve -- Steve Holdoway BSc(Hons) MIITP http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Sat, 2012-10-13 at 12:11 +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 18:53 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: 2/ If installed on Gnome does it need lots of KDE stuff as well? Are you serious? What exactly is your problem here? Shall we pass a hat around so you can buy yourself a 10GB hard disk extension from Molten Media? Volker If you notice, the OP is on dialup, so an additional 150MB or so download is a big deal. Steve ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users True ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] WAS Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete NOW Evolution connection
On Sat 13 Oct 2012 12:13:08 NZDT +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: I do not use NM for my VPNs, just the main network connection. There is no requirement to do so for OpenVPN. How do you start your openvpn? I tried to do so directly, which works fine as far as extablishing the tunnel is concerned, but doesn't do anything about adjusting the routing table or the resolver list. Both essential for VPN use. I found kvpnc the only working solution, but it's too buggy to be too enthusiastic about. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Sat 13 Oct 2012 11:16:56 NZDT +1300, Helmut Walle wrote: Regarding the claim some made here that all email clients suck... agreed, obviously with the one notable exception of pine / alpine... Hehe, that pine in the a... is always the first thing I send to /dev/null. When downloading mail with fetchmail it makes no difference whether to use imap or pop. It's still what I do now. The upside is that I don't have to wait for my mail, the downside is that it wastes some bandwidth on the junk. The clear winner is that I care more about my time than saving my ISP a few kbytes of traffic. Maybe a few more comments on pine: it is all text-based, and that makes it lean, small and fast. Many moons ago I took one look at it, found that for saving 3 emails from inbox to a specific mail folder it needed the action 3 times, each time asking too many dumb things like whether I was absolutely sure, and have been axing it ever since. The mutt way was infinitely more intelligent: mark each message (1 keypress each), save marked messages (2 keys), select folder, hit enter. All you say equally applies to mutt as well as pretty much any other console based mail client. Big bonus: They also work over ssh. Mind you so does kmail, but only if you're desperate. The big K.O. for kmail is that the current version does not support local mbox mail spools any more. It may read it, but moves all mail into its own private directory with a billion files in it. Very inefficient, and that kind of vendor-lock-in is plain not acceptable, given that all mail clients suck. One of the pluses of mbox is that it keeps the mail arrival time (decent clients can sort by it - all the newfangled gui stuff can't), and using grep is possible. I've been recompiling the latest previous version of kmail since. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On Sat 13 Oct 2012 12:11:00 NZDT +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: If you notice, the OP is on dialup Robert on dialup? No I didn't notice. Doesn't the basic install media cover all the basic desktop stuff? It does for me, so dropping extra desktop stuff onto disk doesn't involve more downloads. I'm happy to send out a disk, though am not likely to have the desired distro. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] WAS Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete NOW Evolution connection
On Sat, 2012-10-13 at 12:30 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: On Sat 13 Oct 2012 12:13:08 NZDT +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: I do not use NM for my VPNs, just the main network connection. There is no requirement to do so for OpenVPN. How do you start your openvpn? I tried to do so directly, which works fine as far as extablishing the tunnel is concerned, but doesn't do anything about adjusting the routing table or the resolver list. Both essential for VPN use. I found kvpnc the only working solution, but it's too buggy to be too enthusiastic about. Volker Openvpn is started automagically at bootup. I'm still in the land of /etc/init.d/ wherever possible myself. Routing tables are modified from the server config on startup of that connection. look at the (eg) server 10.12.14.0 255.255.255.0 and (eg) push route 192.168.10.0 255.255.255.0 config settings to enable access to remote subnets as well. Some iptables forwarding on server may be necessary ( tun0 - eth0 or similar ), and static routing on ultimate servers on remote subnets if the OpenVPN server if it isn't the default route. ( or you can cheat and just masquerade all incoming connections over tun0 ). For DNS resolution, a google on /usr/share/openvpn/update-resolv-conf should provide you with all of the information necessary. (and not a clickety-click in sight (: ). Steve -- Steve Holdoway BSc(Hons) MIITP http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] WAS Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete NOW Evolution connection
On Sat 13 Oct 2012 13:01:28 NZDT +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: Openvpn is started automagically at bootup. I'm still in the land of /etc/init.d/ wherever possible myself. Routing tables are modified from the server config on startup of that connection. look at the (eg) server 10.12.14.0 255.255.255.0 and (eg) push route 192.168.10.0 255.255.255.0 config settings to enable access to remote subnets as well. Some iptables forwarding on server may be necessary ( tun0 - eth0 or similar ), and static routing on ultimate servers on remote subnets if the OpenVPN server if it isn't the default route. ( or you can cheat and just masquerade all incoming connections over tun0 ). For DNS resolution, a google on /usr/share/openvpn/update-resolv-conf should provide you with all of the information necessary. (and not a clickety-click in sight (: ). Are you talking about the vpn server or client here? I was talking about the client. Thanks for the tips, I'll have another look. However init.d isn't an option - sometimes I neither need nor want the vpn. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Chit chat Re: Testing List - please delete
On 13/10/12 12:52, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: On Sat 13 Oct 2012 12:11:00 NZDT +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: If you notice, the OP is on dialup Robert on dialup? No I didn't notice. No I was not the original poster but I was inquiring on his behalf. -- Robert ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
