Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-27 Thread j . visch
 

To conclude, took computer to repair store so they could have a look
(got way more parts than I ever will). The result was that while the
computer could handle 2x8s from bios boot up the reality was that it
could only handle 4x4s 

On 18.02.2016 21:38, Peter Simmonds wrote: 

>
And before I forget, Isopropyl alcohol is good for cleaning contacts 
>
(both gold fingers on the memory and slot contacts). Meths in my 
>
experience is usually alright too. -P
> 
> On 18/02/2016 11:38, Kent
Fredric wrote:
> 
>> On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmann
 wrote: 
>> 
>>> Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM,
only swap around what you have. Memory faults can be awkward to find,
especially when they're sporadic.
>> It was more a question of a fast
fault find. In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms
messing you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working
under certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS
drawing a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused
problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could
replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of
ram, then you know the problem is not the ram. Similarly, if you can
replicate the problem with a different powersupply, its not the power
supply. ( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from
weak powersupplies ) I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and
booting it in an entirely different machine just to see if windows fails
at the same points in the same ways or not. And it could very well be
that its not "windows", just some way windows utilizes hardware makes
the problem appear faster than it does with Linux.
> 
>
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-18 Thread j . visch
 

Yeah Microsoft list as important updates KB2952664, KB3035583,
KB3123862 for windows 7 when all they do is install nag software and try
and push you towards windows 10. 

I have come to the conclusion that
the name is faulty or the motherboard is, doubt caused by dust as now
booting up fine now I put back the original memory. Was starting to
effect Linux too so felt good time to stop trying 

On 18.02.2016 21:29,
Peter Simmonds wrote: 

> Hi All,
> 
> Maybe jumping the gun a little
(again). Apparently m$ has made the update to windows 10 a
"recommended"update (It's been on the radio). I had a computer in
similar condition (just the gaming rig) It would boot one time out of 2;
first time telling me I would need to reboot the computer to apply
updates, the second time after applying updates for 3 hours deciding it
couldn't apply updates and would then reboot back into the desktop.
Pretty impressive performance from an 8 core 4ghz 8gb machine! Disabling
automatic updates solved the problem immediately.
> 
> With regards to
the RAM, sorry I missed that email and made an educated guess.
> 
> I'll
read the rest of the emails now that I have uploaded my current train of
thought, and apologies again for using the Win word.
> 
> Cheers,
>

> Peter
> 
> On 17/02/2016 19:11, j.vi...@snap.net.nz wrote: 
> 
>>
Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes, 
>> 
>>
Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at
message "Starting Windows" 
>> 
>> On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg
wrote: 
>> 
>>> Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows
doesn't boot, how far does it actually get? 
>>> 
>>> If you run a
memory checker does it come back all ok? It could be that windows is
loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it
is new ram) and maybe linux hasn't yet hit that space. 
>>> 
>>> -bryce.

>>> 
>>> FROM: linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz
[mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] ON BEHALF OF
j.vi...@snap.net.nz
>>> SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM
>>>
TO: Canterbury Linux Users Group
>>> SUBJECT: [Linux-users] Can linux
boot even when windows can not? 
>>> 
>>> Upgraded my computer from 8gig
to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7
home premium does not. 
>>> 
>>> Linux shows all 16gig available 
>>>

>>> can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. 
>>> 
>>> Bios shows
all 16gig 
>>> 
>>> Got ram in slots 1 and 3. 
>>> 
>>> Is there
something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? 
>>> 
>>>
Anyone else struck this same problem? 
>>> 
>>>
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list
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>>>
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>> 
>>
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> 
>
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>
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-18 Thread Peter Simmonds
And before I forget, Isopropyl alcohol is good for cleaning contacts 
(both gold fingers on the memory and slot contacts). Meths in my 
experience is usually alright too. -P


On 18/02/2016 11:38, Kent Fredric wrote:

On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmann  wrote:

Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory
faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic.


It was more a question of a fast fault find.

In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms messing
you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working under
certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS
drawing  a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused
problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could
replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of
ram, then you know the problem is not the ram.

Similarly, if you can replicate the problem with a different
powersupply, its not the power supply.

( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from weak
powersupplies )

I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and booting it in an
entirely different machine just to see if windows fails at the same
points in the same ways or not.

And it could very well be that its not "windows", just some way
windows utilizes hardware makes the problem appear faster than it does
with Linux.



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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-18 Thread Peter Simmonds

Hi All,

Perhaps try the commonsense idea first. Were the RAM slots free from 
dust before you removed them? If not, dust particles will be forced onto 
the contacts when you insert the new modules.


Cheers,

Peter

On 18/02/2016 10:38, Volker Kuhlmann wrote:

On Thu 18 Feb 2016 02:29:32 NZDT +1300, Kent Fredric wrote:


Did you try swapping the order of your ram cards? That can alleviate
certain kinds of "Loaded into fixed address that happened to be
broken" problems.

And see if you can borrow some friends ram of the same size and try it
independently.

Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory
faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic.

In my case Linux would just panic every few weeks. More often over
course of 18 months. Memtest86 never ever found anything wrong with any
of the 4 4GB modules. Swapping them around or removing 2 of 4 in any
combination made no difference. Then I tried memtester
http://pyropus.ca/software/memtester/ because it runs in user-space and
it's possible to keep working. Some memory module combinations made the
kernel crash(!), which should never happen with this kind of test. The
crashes were more immediate with a certain module order, and all 4
inserted(!). The facts marked (!) are a giveaway for a faulty memory
controller, in this case located inside an AMD CPU. All 4 memory modules
are fine and working rock-solid for 16 months now on a new mobo.

So thumbs-down for memtest86...

Memory faults are notoriously difficult to find. You have to find a way
to trigger them, then replace components until the fault goes away
reliably (mark the removed components when that happens). If you can't
trigger the fault fast or easily you will get frustrated.

If any mem tester program finds a fault it is also not easy to find
which module it is in. I read in later Linux versions it is impossible
to reverse the memory address translation so a program address can't be
reversed to a physical address, which probably needs BIOS info anyway to
track to a module slot. Swapping modules is easier/faster and more
reliable.

HTH,

Volker



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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-18 Thread Peter Simmonds

Hi All,

Maybe jumping the gun a little (again). Apparently m$ has made the 
update to windows 10 a "recommended"update (It's been on the radio). I 
had a computer in similar condition (just the gaming rig) It would boot 
one time out of 2; first time telling me I would need to reboot the 
computer to apply updates, the second time after applying updates for 3 
hours deciding it couldn't apply updates and would then reboot back into 
the desktop. Pretty impressive performance from an 8 core 4ghz 8gb 
machine! Disabling automatic updates solved the problem immediately.


With regards to the RAM, sorry I missed that email and made an educated 
guess.


I'll read the rest of the emails now that I have uploaded my current 
train of thought, and apologies again for using the Win word.


Cheers,

Peter

On 17/02/2016 19:11, j.vi...@snap.net.nz wrote:


Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes,

Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at 
message "Starting Windows"


On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg wrote:

Does windows boot in safe mode?  When you say windows doesn’t boot, 
how far does it actually get?


If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok?  It could be 
that windows is loading something critical into a memory space that 
is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux hasn’t yet hit that 
space.


-bryce.

*From:* linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz 
[mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of 
*j.vi...@snap.net.nz

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM
*To:* Canterbury Linux Users Group
*Subject:* [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel 
boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not.


Linux shows all 16gig available

can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7.

Bios shows all 16gig

Got ram in slots 1 and 3.

Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot?

Anyone else struck this same problem?


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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread Kent Fredric
On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmann  wrote:
>
> Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory
> faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic.


It was more a question of a fast fault find.

In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms messing
you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working under
certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS
drawing  a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused
problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could
replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of
ram, then you know the problem is not the ram.

Similarly, if you can replicate the problem with a different
powersupply, its not the power supply.

( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from weak
powersupplies )

I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and booting it in an
entirely different machine just to see if windows fails at the same
points in the same ways or not.

And it could very well be that its not "windows", just some way
windows utilizes hardware makes the problem appear faster than it does
with Linux.

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread Volker Kuhlmann
On Wed 17 Feb 2016 21:44:03 NZDT +1300, Peter Simmonds wrote:

> drive and kept going as it was! Booting is not an exception really,
> it has far better programming to enable it to recover from what may
> be slightly mashed up partitioning.

Keep in mind that BillyFS(TM) was designed with the braindead idea of
storing the start position of the filesystem relative to the start of
the disk(!!!) in the filesystem header. If you dd the partition to a new
disk with a partition later on, because you enlarged the previous
partition, Billy no longer knows about it...

I have once successfuly injected new doctored bytes with dd, but it's
not worth the trouble. Just tell the boss you need to buy a new doze
box, preinstalled...

In answer to $SUBJECT, yes, in numerous ways, but I'm not sure they
apply in the case here.

Volker

-- 
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http://volker.top.geek.nz/  Please do not CC list postings to me.
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread Kent Fredric
On 17 February 2016 at 22:18,   wrote:
> I doubt it is the hard drives as boots fine 7 and 10 if I just use 2x2 gigs
> ram in same slots,


Did you try swapping the order of your ram cards? That can alleviate
certain kinds of "Loaded into fixed address that happened to be
broken" problems.

And see if you can borrow some friends ram of the same size and try it
independently.

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread j . visch
 

I doubt it is the hard drives as boots fine 7 and 10 if I just use
2x2 gigs ram in same slots, I suspect the computer repair store will
blame the hard drive configuration as I admit not ideal as 250g ssd
drive with boot and windows 7 C partition, with I partition pointing to
partition on 3tb drive (GPT formatted) and windows 10 on another 4tb
hard drive formatted mbr so only able to use first 2tb. I am waiting
until I need to replace motherboard and cpu before bothering fixing up
harddrives as motherboard won't boot from gpt formatting. 

Done some
stress testing on Linux boot and once I got towards 4tb appeared to have
issues with window manager as looked like it crashed, so I am guessing
problem is either motherboard or ram. 

On 17.02.2016 21:44, Peter
Simmonds wrote: 

> Hi All,
> 
> How did you actually go about moving
windows to the new drive, and if 
> win 7 or later, did you copy both
partitions? If you don't mind, what 
> did you use to copy these
partitions?
> 
> In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and
Redo Backup to copy 
> windows partitions and keep them working. Both of
these are linux live 
> CD's which you boot from.
> 
> Regarding booting
I can only give general advice; Linux is much more 
> fault tolerant
than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes 
> wrong with
windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually 
> plugged in a
CDrom with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up 
> (crashed)
and linux simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept 
> going as
it was! Booting is not an exception really, it has far better 
>
programming to enable it to recover from what may be slightly mashed up

> partitioning.
> 
> Hope This helps!
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 17/02/2016
19:55, dave wrote:
> 
>> Me thinks that it's the header info that can be
seen when responder asks the question about safebooting in windows.
that's about all i can think of. dave On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent
Fredric wrote: 
>> 
>>> On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barry
 wrote: 
>>> 
 Please do not hijack an
unrelated thread, start a new one.
>>> Care to explain which thread was
hijacked? All the context I have is: - Person wonders why linux can boot
and windows cannot - Second person asks first person if windows safemode
boots And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps
different mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail )
>>
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> 
>
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread Robert Fisher
Peter I think you missed the point of the first post. It was the RAM which
was upgraded not the hard drives.

Robert Fisher
On 17 Feb 2016 9:44 p.m., "Peter Simmonds" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> How did you actually go about moving windows to the new drive, and if win
> 7 or later, did you copy both partitions? If you don't mind, what did you
> use to copy these partitions?
>
> In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and Redo Backup to copy
> windows partitions and keep them working. Both of these are linux live CD's
> which you boot from.
>
> Regarding booting I can only give general advice; Linux is much more fault
> tolerant than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes wrong with
> windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually plugged in a CDrom
> with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up (crashed) and linux
> simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept going as it was! Booting
> is not an exception really, it has far better programming to enable it to
> recover from what may be slightly mashed up partitioning.
>
> Hope This helps!
>
> Peter
>
> On 17/02/2016 19:55, dave wrote:
>
>> Me thinks that it's the header info that can be seen when responder asks
>> the
>> question about safebooting in windows.
>>
>> that's about all i can think of.
>>
>> dave
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent Fredric wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barry  wrote:
>>>
 Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one.

>>> Care to explain which thread was hijacked?
>>>
>>> All the context I have is:
>>>
>>> - Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot
>>> - Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots
>>>
>>> And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different
>>> mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail )
>>>
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-17 Thread Peter Simmonds

Hi All,

How did you actually go about moving windows to the new drive, and if 
win 7 or later, did you copy both partitions? If you don't mind, what 
did you use to copy these partitions?


In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and Redo Backup to copy 
windows partitions and keep them working. Both of these are linux live 
CD's which you boot from.


Regarding booting I can only give general advice; Linux is much more 
fault tolerant than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes 
wrong with windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually 
plugged in a CDrom with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up 
(crashed) and linux simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept 
going as it was! Booting is not an exception really, it has far better 
programming to enable it to recover from what may be slightly mashed up 
partitioning.


Hope This helps!

Peter

On 17/02/2016 19:55, dave wrote:

Me thinks that it's the header info that can be seen when responder asks the
question about safebooting in windows.

that's about all i can think of.

dave

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent Fredric wrote:

On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barry  wrote:

Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one.

Care to explain which thread was hijacked?

All the context I have is:

- Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot
- Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots

And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different
mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail )

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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-16 Thread j . visch
 

Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes,


Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at
message "Starting Windows" 

On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg wrote:


> Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows doesn't boot,
how far does it actually get? 
> 
> If you run a memory checker does it
come back all ok? It could be that windows is loading something critical
into a memory space that is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux
hasn't yet hit that space. 
> 
> -bryce. 
> 
> FROM:
linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz
[mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] ON BEHALF OF
j.vi...@snap.net.nz
> SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM
> TO:
Canterbury Linux Users Group
> SUBJECT: [Linux-users] Can linux boot
even when windows can not? 
> 
> Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig
and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium
does not. 
> 
> Linux shows all 16gig available 
> 
> can go back to old
ram and boot up windows 7. 
> 
> Bios shows all 16gig 
> 
> Got ram in
slots 1 and 3. 
> 
> Is there something clever that linux does that
allows it to boot? 
> 
> Anyone else struck this same problem? 
> 
>
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-16 Thread Kent Fredric
On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barry  wrote:
> Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one.


Care to explain which thread was hijacked?

All the context I have is:

- Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot
- Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots

And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different
mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail )

-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
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Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-16 Thread Bryce Stenberg
Does windows boot in safe mode?  When you say windows doesn’t boot, how far 
does it actually get?
If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok?  It could be that windows 
is loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it is 
new ram) and maybe linux hasn’t yet hit that space.
-bryce.


From: linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz 
[mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] On Behalf Of 
j.vi...@snap.net.nz
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM
To: Canterbury Linux Users Group
Subject: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?


Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux 
boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not.

Linux shows all 16gig available

can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7.

Bios shows all 16gig

Got ram in slots 1 and 3.

Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot?

Anyone else struck this same problem?


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[Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?

2016-02-16 Thread j . visch
 

Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel
boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. 

Linux shows
all 16gig available 

can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7.


Bios shows all 16gig 

Got ram in slots 1 and 3. 

Is there something
clever that linux does that allows it to boot? 

Anyone else struck this
same problem? 

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