Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
To conclude, took computer to repair store so they could have a look (got way more parts than I ever will). The result was that while the computer could handle 2x8s from bios boot up the reality was that it could only handle 4x4s On 18.02.2016 21:38, Peter Simmonds wrote: > And before I forget, Isopropyl alcohol is good for cleaning contacts > (both gold fingers on the memory and slot contacts). Meths in my > experience is usually alright too. -P > > On 18/02/2016 11:38, Kent Fredric wrote: > >> On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmannwrote: >> >>> Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic. >> It was more a question of a fast fault find. In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms messing you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working under certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS drawing a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of ram, then you know the problem is not the ram. Similarly, if you can replicate the problem with a different powersupply, its not the power supply. ( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from weak powersupplies ) I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and booting it in an entirely different machine just to see if windows fails at the same points in the same ways or not. And it could very well be that its not "windows", just some way windows utilizes hardware makes the problem appear faster than it does with Linux. > > ___ > Linux-users mailing list > Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz > http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Yeah Microsoft list as important updates KB2952664, KB3035583, KB3123862 for windows 7 when all they do is install nag software and try and push you towards windows 10. I have come to the conclusion that the name is faulty or the motherboard is, doubt caused by dust as now booting up fine now I put back the original memory. Was starting to effect Linux too so felt good time to stop trying On 18.02.2016 21:29, Peter Simmonds wrote: > Hi All, > > Maybe jumping the gun a little (again). Apparently m$ has made the update to windows 10 a "recommended"update (It's been on the radio). I had a computer in similar condition (just the gaming rig) It would boot one time out of 2; first time telling me I would need to reboot the computer to apply updates, the second time after applying updates for 3 hours deciding it couldn't apply updates and would then reboot back into the desktop. Pretty impressive performance from an 8 core 4ghz 8gb machine! Disabling automatic updates solved the problem immediately. > > With regards to the RAM, sorry I missed that email and made an educated guess. > > I'll read the rest of the emails now that I have uploaded my current train of thought, and apologies again for using the Win word. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > On 17/02/2016 19:11, j.vi...@snap.net.nz wrote: > >> Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes, >> >> Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at message "Starting Windows" >> >> On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg wrote: >> >>> Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows doesn't boot, how far does it actually get? >>> >>> If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok? It could be that windows is loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux hasn't yet hit that space. >>> >>> -bryce. >>> >>> FROM: linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz [mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] ON BEHALF OF j.vi...@snap.net.nz >>> SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM >>> TO: Canterbury Linux Users Group >>> SUBJECT: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not? >>> >>> Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. >>> >>> Linux shows all 16gig available >>> >>> can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. >>> >>> Bios shows all 16gig >>> >>> Got ram in slots 1 and 3. >>> >>> Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? >>> >>> Anyone else struck this same problem? >>> >>> ___ >>> Linux-users mailing list >>> Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz >>> http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] >> >> ___ >> Linux-users mailing list >> Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz >> http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] > > ___ > Linux-users mailing list > Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz > http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
And before I forget, Isopropyl alcohol is good for cleaning contacts (both gold fingers on the memory and slot contacts). Meths in my experience is usually alright too. -P On 18/02/2016 11:38, Kent Fredric wrote: On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmannwrote: Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic. It was more a question of a fast fault find. In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms messing you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working under certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS drawing a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of ram, then you know the problem is not the ram. Similarly, if you can replicate the problem with a different powersupply, its not the power supply. ( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from weak powersupplies ) I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and booting it in an entirely different machine just to see if windows fails at the same points in the same ways or not. And it could very well be that its not "windows", just some way windows utilizes hardware makes the problem appear faster than it does with Linux. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Hi All, Perhaps try the commonsense idea first. Were the RAM slots free from dust before you removed them? If not, dust particles will be forced onto the contacts when you insert the new modules. Cheers, Peter On 18/02/2016 10:38, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: On Thu 18 Feb 2016 02:29:32 NZDT +1300, Kent Fredric wrote: Did you try swapping the order of your ram cards? That can alleviate certain kinds of "Loaded into fixed address that happened to be broken" problems. And see if you can borrow some friends ram of the same size and try it independently. Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic. In my case Linux would just panic every few weeks. More often over course of 18 months. Memtest86 never ever found anything wrong with any of the 4 4GB modules. Swapping them around or removing 2 of 4 in any combination made no difference. Then I tried memtester http://pyropus.ca/software/memtester/ because it runs in user-space and it's possible to keep working. Some memory module combinations made the kernel crash(!), which should never happen with this kind of test. The crashes were more immediate with a certain module order, and all 4 inserted(!). The facts marked (!) are a giveaway for a faulty memory controller, in this case located inside an AMD CPU. All 4 memory modules are fine and working rock-solid for 16 months now on a new mobo. So thumbs-down for memtest86... Memory faults are notoriously difficult to find. You have to find a way to trigger them, then replace components until the fault goes away reliably (mark the removed components when that happens). If you can't trigger the fault fast or easily you will get frustrated. If any mem tester program finds a fault it is also not easy to find which module it is in. I read in later Linux versions it is impossible to reverse the memory address translation so a program address can't be reversed to a physical address, which probably needs BIOS info anyway to track to a module slot. Swapping modules is easier/faster and more reliable. HTH, Volker ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Hi All, Maybe jumping the gun a little (again). Apparently m$ has made the update to windows 10 a "recommended"update (It's been on the radio). I had a computer in similar condition (just the gaming rig) It would boot one time out of 2; first time telling me I would need to reboot the computer to apply updates, the second time after applying updates for 3 hours deciding it couldn't apply updates and would then reboot back into the desktop. Pretty impressive performance from an 8 core 4ghz 8gb machine! Disabling automatic updates solved the problem immediately. With regards to the RAM, sorry I missed that email and made an educated guess. I'll read the rest of the emails now that I have uploaded my current train of thought, and apologies again for using the Win word. Cheers, Peter On 17/02/2016 19:11, j.vi...@snap.net.nz wrote: Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes, Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at message "Starting Windows" On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg wrote: Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows doesn’t boot, how far does it actually get? If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok? It could be that windows is loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux hasn’t yet hit that space. -bryce. *From:* linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz [mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of *j.vi...@snap.net.nz *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM *To:* Canterbury Linux Users Group *Subject:* [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not? Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. Linux shows all 16gig available can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. Bios shows all 16gig Got ram in slots 1 and 3. Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? Anyone else struck this same problem? ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz <mailto:Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz> http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
On 18 February 2016 at 10:38, Volker Kuhlmannwrote: > > Awkward!! Don't borrow RAM, only swap around what you have. Memory > faults can be awkward to find, especially when they're sporadic. It was more a question of a fast fault find. In the event that the problem was *not* your specific dimms messing you up and it was some problem with the motherboard not working under certain load patterns with that exact amount of memory, or your OS drawing a certain voltage with that many dimms installed that caused problems due to a bad powersupply... the idea was _if_ you could replicate the situation identically with an entirely different set of ram, then you know the problem is not the ram. Similarly, if you can replicate the problem with a different powersupply, its not the power supply. ( And you'd be amazed how many weird problems can appear from weak powersupplies ) I'd also consider ripping out the hard drive and booting it in an entirely different machine just to see if windows fails at the same points in the same ways or not. And it could very well be that its not "windows", just some way windows utilizes hardware makes the problem appear faster than it does with Linux. -- Kent KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
On Wed 17 Feb 2016 21:44:03 NZDT +1300, Peter Simmonds wrote: > drive and kept going as it was! Booting is not an exception really, > it has far better programming to enable it to recover from what may > be slightly mashed up partitioning. Keep in mind that BillyFS(TM) was designed with the braindead idea of storing the start position of the filesystem relative to the start of the disk(!!!) in the filesystem header. If you dd the partition to a new disk with a partition later on, because you enlarged the previous partition, Billy no longer knows about it... I have once successfuly injected new doctored bytes with dd, but it's not worth the trouble. Just tell the boss you need to buy a new doze box, preinstalled... In answer to $SUBJECT, yes, in numerous ways, but I'm not sure they apply in the case here. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.top.geek.nz/ Please do not CC list postings to me. ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
On 17 February 2016 at 22:18,wrote: > I doubt it is the hard drives as boots fine 7 and 10 if I just use 2x2 gigs > ram in same slots, Did you try swapping the order of your ram cards? That can alleviate certain kinds of "Loaded into fixed address that happened to be broken" problems. And see if you can borrow some friends ram of the same size and try it independently. -- Kent KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
I doubt it is the hard drives as boots fine 7 and 10 if I just use 2x2 gigs ram in same slots, I suspect the computer repair store will blame the hard drive configuration as I admit not ideal as 250g ssd drive with boot and windows 7 C partition, with I partition pointing to partition on 3tb drive (GPT formatted) and windows 10 on another 4tb hard drive formatted mbr so only able to use first 2tb. I am waiting until I need to replace motherboard and cpu before bothering fixing up harddrives as motherboard won't boot from gpt formatting. Done some stress testing on Linux boot and once I got towards 4tb appeared to have issues with window manager as looked like it crashed, so I am guessing problem is either motherboard or ram. On 17.02.2016 21:44, Peter Simmonds wrote: > Hi All, > > How did you actually go about moving windows to the new drive, and if > win 7 or later, did you copy both partitions? If you don't mind, what > did you use to copy these partitions? > > In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and Redo Backup to copy > windows partitions and keep them working. Both of these are linux live > CD's which you boot from. > > Regarding booting I can only give general advice; Linux is much more > fault tolerant than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes > wrong with windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually > plugged in a CDrom with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up > (crashed) and linux simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept > going as it was! Booting is not an exception really, it has far better > programming to enable it to recover from what may be slightly mashed up > partitioning. > > Hope This helps! > > Peter > > On 17/02/2016 19:55, dave wrote: > >> Me thinks that it's the header info that can be seen when responder asks the question about safebooting in windows. that's about all i can think of. dave On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent Fredric wrote: >> >>> On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barrywrote: >>> Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one. >>> Care to explain which thread was hijacked? All the context I have is: - Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot - Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail ) >> ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] > > ___ > Linux-users mailing list > Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz > http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Peter I think you missed the point of the first post. It was the RAM which was upgraded not the hard drives. Robert Fisher On 17 Feb 2016 9:44 p.m., "Peter Simmonds"wrote: > Hi All, > > How did you actually go about moving windows to the new drive, and if win > 7 or later, did you copy both partitions? If you don't mind, what did you > use to copy these partitions? > > In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and Redo Backup to copy > windows partitions and keep them working. Both of these are linux live CD's > which you boot from. > > Regarding booting I can only give general advice; Linux is much more fault > tolerant than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes wrong with > windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually plugged in a CDrom > with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up (crashed) and linux > simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept going as it was! Booting > is not an exception really, it has far better programming to enable it to > recover from what may be slightly mashed up partitioning. > > Hope This helps! > > Peter > > On 17/02/2016 19:55, dave wrote: > >> Me thinks that it's the header info that can be seen when responder asks >> the >> question about safebooting in windows. >> >> that's about all i can think of. >> >> dave >> >> On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent Fredric wrote: >> >>> On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barry wrote: >>> Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one. >>> Care to explain which thread was hijacked? >>> >>> All the context I have is: >>> >>> - Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot >>> - Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots >>> >>> And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different >>> mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail ) >>> >> ___ >> Linux-users mailing list >> Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz >> http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users >> >> > ___ > Linux-users mailing list > Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz > http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users > ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Hi All, How did you actually go about moving windows to the new drive, and if win 7 or later, did you copy both partitions? If you don't mind, what did you use to copy these partitions? In the past I have successfully used Clonezilla and Redo Backup to copy windows partitions and keep them working. Both of these are linux live CD's which you boot from. Regarding booting I can only give general advice; Linux is much more fault tolerant than windows, in other words, when anything minor goes wrong with windows it simply crashes. With linux, I have actually plugged in a CDrom with the system on, hard drive spun down then spun up (crashed) and linux simply sent a reset command to the drive and kept going as it was! Booting is not an exception really, it has far better programming to enable it to recover from what may be slightly mashed up partitioning. Hope This helps! Peter On 17/02/2016 19:55, dave wrote: Me thinks that it's the header info that can be seen when responder asks the question about safebooting in windows. that's about all i can think of. dave On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:03:02 Kent Fredric wrote: On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barrywrote: Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one. Care to explain which thread was hijacked? All the context I have is: - Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot - Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail ) ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Tried safe mode and it gets up to pnp drivers and then freezes, Repair mode downloads files and freezes and normal boot just stays at message "Starting Windows" On 17.02.2016 09:42, Bryce Stenberg wrote: > Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows doesn't boot, how far does it actually get? > > If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok? It could be that windows is loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux hasn't yet hit that space. > > -bryce. > > FROM: linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz [mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] ON BEHALF OF j.vi...@snap.net.nz > SENT: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM > TO: Canterbury Linux Users Group > SUBJECT: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not? > > Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. > > Linux shows all 16gig available > > can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. > > Bios shows all 16gig > > Got ram in slots 1 and 3. > > Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? > > Anyone else struck this same problem? > > ___ > Linux-users mailing list > Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz > http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
On 17 February 2016 at 12:13, Barrywrote: > Please do not hijack an unrelated thread, start a new one. Care to explain which thread was hijacked? All the context I have is: - Person wonders why linux can boot and windows cannot - Second person asks first person if windows safemode boots And that seems entirely reasonable to me. ( Though perhaps different mail clients format it differently, I'm using GMail ) -- Kent KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Does windows boot in safe mode? When you say windows doesn’t boot, how far does it actually get? If you run a memory checker does it come back all ok? It could be that windows is loading something critical into a memory space that is faulty (since it is new ram) and maybe linux hasn’t yet hit that space. -bryce. From: linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz [mailto:linux-users-boun...@lists.canterbury.ac.nz] On Behalf Of j.vi...@snap.net.nz Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:32 PM To: Canterbury Linux Users Group Subject: [Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not? Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. Linux shows all 16gig available can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. Bios shows all 16gig Got ram in slots 1 and 3. Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? Anyone else struck this same problem? ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
[Linux-users] Can linux boot even when windows can not?
Upgraded my computer from 8gig to 16gig and suddenly from my duel boot, linux boots fine, windows 7 home premium does not. Linux shows all 16gig available can go back to old ram and boot up windows 7. Bios shows all 16gig Got ram in slots 1 and 3. Is there something clever that linux does that allows it to boot? Anyone else struck this same problem? ___ Linux-users mailing list Linux-users@lists.canterbury.ac.nz http://lists.canterbury.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/linux-users