Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 28/07/14 05:45, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote: I have a soekris atom board, net6501, and despite the intel nics, chipset throughput won't let them go as far as they would. So how much would I expect from these apu from PCEngines? Running the latest pfsense and only routing. I compared the apu.1c to the net6501 and found it to be about 20 to 40% faster. I did not write down the exact numbers, that's why the above is just an estimation of what stayed in my memory... Regards, Adrian. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Am 22.07.2014 um 21:29 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's secure about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm Cooling: Conductive cooling from the CPU and south bridge to the enclosure using a 3 mm alu heat spreader.“ If assembly is similar to that of ALIX-boards, it’s not difficult. I bought my first pcengines device fully assembled, too. But back then, you had to drill your own holes etc. So, if you’re unsure - there is value in buying it fully assembled and tested and with support. How much is your time worth? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 07/22/2014 02:19 PM, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 22.07.2014 um 21:29 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com mailto:nlesc...@gmail.com: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. ... What sort of bandwidth are these be able to handle? I have rotated older computers into the closet over the years, and found them to be bottlenecks earlier on (not so now with a relatively recent AMD 2500+ cpu). With a standard brighthouse hookup/plan we currently are at 1.2 GB/s. I'd hope these laugh at such speeds? Kenward -- In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be *teachers* and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have. - Lee Iacocca ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Am 27.07.2014 18:32, schrieb Kenward Vaughan: On 07/22/2014 02:19 PM, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 22.07.2014 um 21:29 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com mailto:nlesc...@gmail.com: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. ... What sort of bandwidth are these be able to handle? I have rotated older computers into the closet over the years, and found them to be bottlenecks earlier on (not so now with a relatively recent AMD 2500+ cpu). With a standard brighthouse hookup/plan we currently are at 1.2 GB/s. I'd hope these laugh at such speeds? Kenward Are you sure you meant 1.2 GB/s ? That would be 9.6 Gbit/s (as in 9600 Mbit/s) These don't route that much. With the built in Realtek cards you get 450 Mbit/s without any fancy rules. I would expect this to go down with additional rules. With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. You can expect power consumation of below 10W without additional cards in the PCIe slots. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 27/7/14 7:06 pm, Matthias May wrote: With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. Have you tried it with Intel cards (I assume you're talking mPCIe cards?) - and if so, what chassis did you use? The ability to install Intel NICs on these boards would make them very compelling indeed - especially as there are more than a few scenarios where 3 NICs just aren't enough. The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. I'd add it's much faster than the ALIX boards it replaces, for virtually no increase in cost. That in itself is a pretty substantial benefit. Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Am 27.07.2014 20:20, schrieb Chris Bagnall: On 27/7/14 7:06 pm, Matthias May wrote: With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. Have you tried it with Intel cards (I assume you're talking mPCIe cards?) - and if so, what chassis did you use? The ability to install Intel NICs on these boards would make them very compelling indeed - especially as there are more than a few scenarios where 3 NICs just aren't enough. Yes. See this post on the forum where i link the cards used: https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=59555.msg405522#msg405522 The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. I'd add it's much faster than the ALIX boards it replaces, for virtually no increase in cost. That in itself is a pretty substantial benefit. Well it uses about double the power the ALIX does, but is wy faster compared.. Kind regards, Chris ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 07/27/2014 11:06 AM, Matthias May wrote: ... Kenward Are you sure you meant 1.2 GB/s ? That would be 9.6 Gbit/s (as in 9600 Mbit/s) These don't route that much. With the built in Realtek cards you get 450 Mbit/s without any fancy rules. I would expect this to go down with additional rules. With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. You can expect power consumation of below 10W without additional cards in the PCIe slots. My brain burp. 1.2 MB/s. Duh. It should do fine, then! My added rules are short/sweet--designed to trash my gaming kids outside of reasonable hours. 5 or 6 of those to manaage the week, cron package to manage killing states on the back end. I might aim for one to use at my school in a computational lab I'd like to set up (isolating the room from everything, if that's deemed necessary). They are certainly higher in throughput, but most outside access wouldn't need too high of a rate. Kenward -- In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be *teachers* and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have. - Lee Iacocca ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 27, 2014, at 13:06, Matthias May matth...@may.nu wrote: Am 27.07.2014 18:32, schrieb Kenward Vaughan: On 07/22/2014 02:19 PM, Rainer Duffner wrote: Am 22.07.2014 um 21:29 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com mailto:nlesc...@gmail.com: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. ... What sort of bandwidth are these be able to handle? I have rotated older computers into the closet over the years, and found them to be bottlenecks earlier on (not so now with a relatively recent AMD 2500+ cpu). With a standard brighthouse hookup/plan we currently are at 1.2 GB/s. I'd hope these laugh at such speeds? Kenward Are you sure you meant 1.2 GB/s ? That would be 9.6 Gbit/s (as in 9600 Mbit/s) These don't route that much. With the built in Realtek cards you get 450 Mbit/s without any fancy rules. I would expect this to go down with additional rules. With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. Note that Intel NICs are not available on the PC Engines board, so it's not the same board, though a few suppliers build boards with the same SOC and Intel NICs. With a dual core Rangeley or Avoton 900Mbps between two ports is an everyday thing. The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. You can expect power consumation of below 10W without additional cards in the PCIe slots. Those are miniPCIe slots, not PCIe. Rangeley / Avoton are 6-20W TDP, depending on the number of cores. Jim -- Jim ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 22, 2014, at 16:19, Rainer Duffner rai...@ultra-secure.de wrote: Am 22.07.2014 um 21:29 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's secure about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm Cooling: Conductive cooling from the CPU and south bridge to the enclosure using a 3 mm alu heat spreader.“ If assembly is similar to that of ALIX-boards, it’s not difficult. Except for the heat spreader, and issues related to the sd cards falling out, it's exactly like an Alix. Which is to say, the similarities are easy to spot. Putting the spreader in place correctly, on the first attempt is in question. How much is your time worth? This is the question. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Nickolai, I don’t know about you but I get my 8GB SDHC Class 10 cards for between $5 and $15. — Ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 14:29, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's secure about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Ryan, Your point is entirely lost, I’ve already shown where your words are false by any measure. Time to close this thread. Jim On Jul 27, 2014, at 9:08 PM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Nickolai, I don’t know about you but I get my 8GB SDHC Class 10 cards for between $5 and $15. — Ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 14:29, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's secure about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On July 27, 2014 3:20:20 PM GMT-03:00, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 27/7/14 7:06 pm, Matthias May wrote: With intel cards on the same board you can get up to 650 Mbit/s, but i expect it to be lower with additional rules. Have you tried it with Intel cards (I assume you're talking mPCIe cards?) - and if so, what chassis did you use? The ability to install Intel NICs on these boards would make them very compelling indeed - especially as there are more than a few scenarios where 3 NICs just aren't enough. The strength of this board isn't, that it performs very fast, but that it performs reasonably well without taking too much power. I'd add it's much faster than the ALIX boards it replaces, for virtually no increase in cost. That in itself is a pretty substantial benefit. Kind regards, Chris Hail, I have a soekris atom board, net6501, and despite the intel nics, chipset throughput won't let them go as far as they would. So how much would I expect from these apu from PCEngines? Running the latest pfsense and only routing. Thanks, -- We will call you Cygnus, the God of balance you shall be. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Oh guys give it a rest, like a couple of whiney school boys. I'm getting off this list to get away from you guys. On Jul 27, 2014 10:16 PM, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: Ryan, Your point is entirely lost, I’ve already shown where your words are false by any measure. Time to close this thread. Jim On Jul 27, 2014, at 9:08 PM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Nickolai, I don’t know about you but I get my 8GB SDHC Class 10 cards for between $5 and $15. — Ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 14:29, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's *secure* about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
whatever jim. I’ve used this list and helped people. People have helped me. Your approach was wrong. My response was wrong. I admitted my mistake. You wanted this off list and you’re still responding. Ban me if you wish - it would only be a temporary measure. I’ve been buying your hardware for four years. I can easily stop doing that, too. $5,000 business relationship would be over. — Ryan On Jul 23, 2014, at 0:11, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Let's get some facts straight: False: the board, case, SD all cost about $145 if you buy them from PCEngines. PC Engines doesn't sell SD cards, so we'll leave those out of the discussion for now. List price on an APU from PC Engines: $136 (2GB) or $155 (4GB) List price on case from PC Engines: $9.30 List price on power supply from PC Engines: $4.50 Total: $149.80 (2GB) or $168.80 (4GB) plus shipping and duties from Switzerland. Netgate price on 2GB APU kit (no storage): $179 ($29 markup vs DIY) Netgate price on 4GB APU kit (no storage): $199 ($31 markup vs DIY) Plus shipping from Texas. Netgate offer a fully-assembled, supported version of the APU for $299 (2GB) or $319 (4GB), these also include a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card (same can be added to the kits, above.) BestGoogle Shopping price on a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card is $11.25, but you won't succeed in buying from him. Next best price is $12. So $161 (2GB) or $181 (4GB), if you chose to DIY. Remember, you'll still have to pay shipping from Switzerland and US import duties. (So do we, but we do a LOT more volume than you.) Now, it actually does take time to program the SD card, assemble the unit, test it, source and track the raw parts, etc. Getting the heat transfer material and spreader in the right place takes time and know-how. Moreover, the transfer pad doesn't really permit do-overs. Maybe you'll get it right the first time. Maybe. Getting it right the second time means a reduction in heat transfer. Further, the version of pfSense from the Netgate and pfSense stores has features which do not appear elsewhere. Oh, and we laser engrave the cases. (Port marks only on the kit) Finally, many people will not work very long for no pay, so the support (should you want/need it) does cost something to supply. The people providing that support have forgotten more about pfSense than you'll ever know. In any case, as you and everyone else can plainly see, the markup is nowhere near $250, as you have emphatically and repeatedly stated. One must therefore conclude that you have an agenda. This is still extremely offensive: My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you don’t want the support you can look at this model, In any case, basic math skills will show that your claim of a $250 fleecing is egregiously wrong: $319-$181 is $138. $299-$161 is also $138 (hmm!) Remember you'll have to import from Switzerland, assemble the unit, and answer questions for a year, take returns, develop the software and have something left over to pay for the Christmas party out of that $138. Just to emphasize: Without the support and assembly, the markup .vs DIY is $30 +/- $1. And here again, you've not paid to import from Switzerland, which are not costs you'll avoid. I am left to conclude that you're either lying, or can't perform basic arithmetic. . Now, about the list. I try to keep this list vendor free. Your actions negate that effort. Telling me what to do with my list, hosted by my company, about a project that I have supported from the very start with time and money, is a short path to the ban list. Got it? -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:35, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Actually the margin is more like $250 - the board, case, SD all cost about $145 if you buy them from PCEngines. My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you don’t want the support you can look at this model, or give an option to opt out of the support. Also calling it simply APU4 implies that it is 3 versions BETTER than their APU1C4 - it should be APU4-KIT or BUILT or something like that to differentiate between them. I love my Alix. The base parts is a good price. The extra cost without other information is not a good business practice and is, indeed, trying to get people to spend more money on something that they don’t have to (not saying they shouldn’t) is bad. I never ripped into him for that - he publicly told me to take it off the list when he should have privately. In fact I thought the message WAS private until my phone lit up with responses. I’ve been on mailing lists since 1996 and I’ve never been called out like that publicly by a moderator without advance warning. — ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:30, Walter Parker walt...@gmail.com wrote: I see a few
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Cool down BOTH of you. The IT community is filled with such tempers. Stop acting like kids. What do you want Ryan, a timeout? Yudhvir ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 02:40:44PM +, Ryan Coleman wrote: Is there a difference between the 4 and the 1C4? Is Netgate just trying to fleece people for an extra $200 by packaging the entire thing together built and tested? http://store.netgate.com/kit-APU1C4.aspx http://store.netgate.com/APU4.aspx PC Engines only has the APU1C/APU1C4 listed with the same specs as the purported APU4 at NetGate:http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm If you're technical, and do your own support you should buy from PC Engines. If you're nontechnical and need an assembled device with support and/or want to support pfSense development, you should buy from Netgate. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
I asked the differences in the two line items from netgate. On Jul 22, 2014, at 9:56, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 02:40:44PM +, Ryan Coleman wrote: Is there a difference between the 4 and the 1C4? Is Netgate just trying to fleece people for an extra $200 by packaging the entire thing together built and tested? http://store.netgate.com/kit-APU1C4.aspx http://store.netgate.com/APU4.aspx PC Engines only has the APU1C/APU1C4 listed with the same specs as the purported APU4 at NetGate:http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm If you're technical, and do your own support you should buy from PC Engines. If you're nontechnical and need an assembled device with support and/or want to support pfSense development, you should buy from Netgate. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 22, 2014, at 10:58, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I asked the differences in the two line items from netgate. Perhaps you should ask sa...@netgate.com Jim ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's *secure* about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Just like the others: dissipation through the aluminum case. Mine get toasty but they haven't cooked yet. You could cut a fan in the case if you needed to. On Jul 22, 2014, at 14:29, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: The difference is not $200, but about $100 with 8GB Sandisk Extreme Secure [sic!] SDHC card included. 1. What's secure about this card? I suppose it's a regular SDHC one. 2. I would like to pay less, but I'm worried about assembling it right with regards to cooling. Can anyone clarify how is cooling achieved in this unit? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Just like the others: dissipation through the aluminum case How does the CPU connect to the aluminum case? Is there some thermal interface involved? Maybe an interface between CPU heatsink and aluminum case? Mine get toasty but they haven't cooked yet. You could cut a fan in the case if you needed to. That bothers me quite a bit, but what can you do? I would appreciate it if the manufacturer had the wisdom to leave some margin in the design of the device, thermal performance-wise. You could cut a fan in the case if you needed to. For a person like me, with a history of choosing computer hardware on the basis of its potential to run without extra active cooling, and redesigning computers to minimize the demand for active cooling - that's a blasphemy. (a single low-speed PSU fan with huge CPU heatsink should be enough for cooling a desktop; completely fanless is a bit too much by my judgement - fried one PC that way) The fact that this could be necessary, or advisable, annoys me greatly, to put it mildly. There's simply not enough possibilities out there to choose a proper silent fan in such tight space constraints. Also, the possibility of degradation of fan's sound profile (all fans become noisier when they age), performance or outright failure, the difficulty of cutting the case properly and all the possible complications that could come with it - are the issues I would gladly sidestep entirely. I wonder why they wouldn't just build the board with some appropriate Atom CPU? Shouldn't that be more power-efficient? And maybe even more performant, to boot? E3815 http://ark.intel.com/products/78474, probably? Though it's not clear whether its 6W TDP would be noticeably better in practice than AMD's 6.4W http://www.amd.com/Documents/49282_G-Series_platform_brief.pdf, but isn't it kinda the manufacturer's job to ensure that the product won't croak with the stock cooling?! ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:19, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder why they wouldn't just build the board with some appropriate Atom CPU? :-) And maybe even more performant, to boot? E3815, probably? Bay Trail? Why? That's for tablets. C2xx8 more likely. IJS...___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:19, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: Just like the others: dissipation through the aluminum case How does the CPU connect to the aluminum case? Is there some thermal interface involved? Maybe an interface between CPU heatsink and aluminum case? Yes, there is a transfer pad. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Do you happen to have an image of this? On Jul 22, 2014, at 16:28, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:19, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: Just like the others: dissipation through the aluminum case How does the CPU connect to the aluminum case? Is there some thermal interface involved? Maybe an interface between CPU heatsink and aluminum case? Yes, there is a transfer pad. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Bay Trail? Why? That's for tablets. What's the difference, in practical terms? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
http://pcengines.ch/apucool.htm Holger Am 22.07.2014 23:31 schrieb Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com: Yes, there is a transfer pad. What is this pad made of: some metal or is this a thermal shim, which is a sort of paste? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Thanks, Holger! I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? I find it less than adequate, but let's hope that it works. Looks like I could manage to assemble that. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Ryan, Profanity and personal attacks have no place on this list. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:12, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Who is the list mom and why is he/she not responding to this? On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/1jWVIe6zqb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CQjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYr3d8KpF1D ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS921J5yXBNMUQsII6XCNOqr0VVBYSejjod7bMUsr79FI3DCn3oVdd-ZT7ztfS0aJmfyPsH5undSH7NpKlyLbC_YxtSPb_nVN4sCVtXHTbFECzB_zhOesd7dQkumKzp55mXbfaxVZicHs3jqpJATvAn3hOYyyODtUTsSjDdqymovaAWsIXjUk_w0e2qKMM-l9OwXn3VkCrfBipsxlK5LE2zVkDjBDqv2DY01dLKnodwLQzh0qmRDhzUkYQKCy0eAWXYvxrPh0g-pz_wq810b1dwQgr10Qg20m2q8AMroudVHDmk1gq ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/5fHCN0q43qb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CSjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYriex-wjKS ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 23/7/14 2:10 am, Jim Thompson wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. Respectfully, I disagree. Given the APU is - as the de facto successor to the ALIX - likely to be a piece of hardware used in a lot of new pfSense installs, discussion about its merits and drawbacks (in a pfSense context) strikes me as being *entirely* on topic. Certainly if heat dissipation is going to be a concern with this unit in long-term deployments, and given the 24/7/365 nature of firewalls, that's very relevant to pfSense and something for which we as a community need to be finding solutions. Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On Jul 22, 2014, at 16:30, Nickolai Leschov nlesc...@gmail.com wrote: Bay Trail? Why? That's for tablets. What's the difference, in practical terms? First: Rangeley has an integrated i354 10/100/1000 quad Ethernet MAC. Bay Trail requires one to add Ethernet Second: Rangeley has a high-speed crypto co-processor (Quick Assist) Third: the lowest end Rangeley has twice the cache of the low-end Bay Trail. Similarly, the highest end Rangeley has twice the cache of the highest end Bay Trail Fourth: Bay Trail is a max quad core part, Rangeley is max 8-core (C27x8). Fifth: Bay Trail maxes out at 1.5GHz, Rangeley at 2.4GHz. (Both non-turbo) Is that enough, or shall I continue? Jim___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
I am. I have. I'm trying to be patient and professional. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:47, Sean Colins s...@corequick.com wrote: Who is the list mom and why is he/she not responding to this? On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/1jWVIe6zqb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CQjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYr3d8KpF1D ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS921J5yXBNMUQsII6XCNOqr0VVBYSejjod7bMUsr79FI3DCn3oVdd-ZT7ztfS0aJmfyPsH5undSH7NpKlyLbC_YxtSPb_nVN4sCVtXHTbFECzB_zhOesd7dQkumKzp55mXbfaxVZicHs3jqpJATvAn3hOYyyODtUTsSjDdqymovaAWsIXjUk_w0e2qKMM-l9OwXn3VkCrfBipsxlK5LE2zVkDjBDqv2DY01dLKnodwLQzh0qmRDhzUkYQKCy0eAWXYvxrPh0g-pz_wq810b1dwQgr10Qg20m2q8AMroudVHDmk1gq ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org http://cp.mcafee.com/d/5fHCN0q43qb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CSjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYriex-wjKS ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Neither do accusations that a discussion that is VERY MUCH related to this list has no place on this list. Just because it does not relate to what YOU use pfsense for doesn’t mean it does not belong. If that were the case most of the emails I get on a daily basis have no place on this list. Think of the others here instead of yourself, please. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:23, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Profanity and personal attacks have no place on this list. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:12, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
::applause:: I may have fired off the message in a fit of frustration but you made it a public statement - if you wanted to be the “mom” and handle it you should have sent it privately instead of publicly. — Ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 21:15, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 23/7/14 2:10 am, Jim Thompson wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. Respectfully, I disagree. Given the APU is - as the de facto successor to the ALIX - likely to be a piece of hardware used in a lot of new pfSense installs, discussion about its merits and drawbacks (in a pfSense context) strikes me as being *entirely* on topic. Certainly if heat dissipation is going to be a concern with this unit in long-term deployments, and given the 24/7/365 nature of firewalls, that's very relevant to pfSense and something for which we as a community need to be finding solutions. Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
On 23/7/14 4:11 am, Ryan Coleman wrote: I may have fired off the message in a fit of frustration but you made it a public statement - if you wanted to be the “mom” and handle it you should have sent it privately instead of publicly. I can't work out if the above is directed at me or Jim. (I certainly don't have any intention of being anyone's mum) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
It is my believe that we all are on this list, in this discussion, because we have a requirement, desire and/or need of a solid network security solution. I applaud the community as a whole for making pfSense a product for that is available for the societal masses. #respect Give me your low TTL, your latent, your packets en mass yearning to be delivered freely fore pfSense shall protect us all. We all have bad days, none of us always use the most proper words. There is no use for us to be divided, we are stronger together. Lest we all put this quarrel to rest and move forward, forge ahead without complication. We all deserve a congratulation, especially not me, for furthering a unified vision that WE ALL have. -- Blake Cornell CTO, Integris Security LLC 501 Franklin Ave, Suite 200 Garden City, NY 11530 USA http://www.integrissecurity.com/ O: +1(516)750-0478 M: +1(516)900-2193 PGP: CF42 5262 AE68 4AC7 591B 2C5B C34C 7FAB 4660 F572 Free Tools: https://www.integrissecurity.com/SecurityTools Follow us on Twitter: @integrissec On 07/22/2014 11:18 PM, Chris Bagnall wrote: On 23/7/14 4:11 am, Ryan Coleman wrote: I may have fired off the message in a fit of frustration but you made it a public statement - if you wanted to be the “mom” and handle it you should have sent it privately instead of publicly. I can't work out if the above is directed at me or Jim. (I certainly don't have any intention of being anyone's mum) Kind regards, Chris ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Sorry, that was at our wonderful list mom. I should have noted it that way. On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:18, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 23/7/14 4:11 am, Ryan Coleman wrote: I may have fired off the message in a fit of frustration but you made it a public statement - if you wanted to be the “mom” and handle it you should have sent it privately instead of publicly. I can't work out if the above is directed at me or Jim. (I certainly don't have any intention of being anyone's mum) Kind regards, Chris -- This email is made from 100% recycled electrons ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Difference between APU4 and APU1C4
Actually the margin is more like $250 - the board, case, SD all cost about $145 if you buy them from PCEngines. My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you don’t want the support you can look at this model, or give an option to opt out of the support. Also calling it simply APU4 implies that it is 3 versions BETTER than their APU1C4 - it should be APU4-KIT or BUILT or something like that to differentiate between them. I love my Alix. The base parts is a good price. The extra cost without other information is not a good business practice and is, indeed, trying to get people to spend more money on something that they don’t have to (not saying they shouldn’t) is bad. I never ripped into him for that - he publicly told me to take it off the list when he should have privately. In fact I thought the message WAS private until my phone lit up with responses. I’ve been on mailing lists since 1996 and I’ve never been called out like that publicly by a moderator without advance warning. — ryan On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:30, Walter Parker walt...@gmail.com wrote: I see a few things going on here: From the Netgate site, the difference between the APU1C and the APU1C4 DIY kits is 2GB vs 4GB. The Kits are $179 and $199 and include the board, a case and power plug. The kit from PCEngines is just the board (I don't see any that says it comes with a plug or a case). The plugs on PCEngines are not in stock. Some of the cases are out of stock. Prior emails on this list have indicated that the older versions of the case (for the alix) didn't quite fit the APU and therefore had a thermial problem due to poor contact. The Netgate cases are the new style that doesn't have the problem. The assembled systems from Netgate are $299, which means the price breakdown is: $179 for the Board, case and plug (PC Engines price for all of this is $150 if you order more than 500 units) $22 for the flash card $99 One year of pfSense support That leaves Netgate with a whole $6 over the price of the DIY kit (which was $30 more than PC Engines, but to get PC Engine's price, you have to buy $75,000 worth of hardware). I bought my Alix from netgate and it was a good price. This new item is a good price. You are unlikely to find the hardware for less money once you include the $99 add on from pfSense support. I did find Ryan's initial email to be a bit rude. What is it with people that assume that because a company wants to make a profit that they are fleecing people? The $6 margin on a $299 product hardly seem like a rip off (my time is worth a lot more than that). And you get a tested system with a warranty. Look at the prices for the Intel systems, they tend to run double once you include all the features. And have some class, Jim is one of the good guys, doing great work with Netgate and pfSense. Ripping on him because he asked that sales types questions for a vendor product be sent to the vendor is not a bad request (the pfSense vendors do read this list). On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: I am. I have. I'm trying to be patient and professional. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:47, Sean Colins s...@corequick.com wrote: Who is the list mom and why is he/she not responding to this? On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. Please stay on topic. -- Jim On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall pfse...@lists.minotaur.cc wrote: On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal paste allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge and the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact with the case? The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks to both the chips and the base of the chassis. It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is about 22C at this time of year. Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held in place by 'screws and hex nuts'? 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from outside, after the installation? There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not accessible externally after installation. (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for anything
