Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a comparison, try removing all of your P tags, and see if the white space they give you is purely presentational! Paragraph elements only give white space because they are told to by CSS. Instead of paragraphs, I could use almost any other element (depending on the page, I could probably even use noscripts and even get it to validate) and in any even semi-modern browser I could make it look identical. What gives paragraph elements their value isn't their white space (screen readers and search engines don't see the white space), it's that by excepted standards they denote a paragraph of text. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
thanks for the responses and setting me straight about my mark up. sometimes i question myself whether i am doing best practices, and it seems that i am. i appreciate this list and the feedback i receive. so as long as i'm good to go with what i have, away with the hrs. dwain On 2/19/07, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An HR element is effectively presentation markup. It's a *visual* break in the page. This means that if you are working towards proper semantic markup, you shouldn't be using the HR element. Styling a DIV is just fine. The DIV can be used to semantically indicate a section of text and may contain several P tags, for example. Then you could style to DIV by adding a border. Now the structure is semantic, and the visual effect (the horizontal line) is in the CSS where it belongs. Lucien. On 19/2/07 4:44 PM, Dwain Alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: after following several threads, i have converted my site to html 4.01. what i want to do is section the parts of my page with hrs. i can't figure out why the styling of the hr does not work in ff or opera. currently i am using borders on divs to achieve this effect, but to my understanding the hr would be semantically correct to separate the page into sections rather than use borders on divs as presentation. the last two hrs on the test page separate a side note from the rest of the content. i guess i could live with the presentational effect of the border that is currently being used at the top of the page. i have not removed the borders from the css, but you can see the faint line of the hr and its initial placement. what say you of my reasoning and what would be the best practice; and if it's for the hr, how do i make it black? http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/alaskan-dream.html http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/css/kddindipix.css dwain -- Lucien Stals Web Developer Academic Development and Support Phone +61 3 9214 4474 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Education is only the beginning. Let's get on with it. Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
Dwain Alford wrote: as long as i'm good to go with what i have, away with the hrs. Uh, realizing, I hope, that the prior poster may be wrong :-) Your HR will show a logical separation exists without depending on presentational styling via CSS. But I won't see your pretty /non-semantic/ DIV border using Lynx, for example... FWIW! On 2/19/07, *Lucien Stals* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An HR element is effectively presentation markup. It's a *visual* break in the page. This means that if you are working towards proper semantic markup, you shouldn't be using the HR element. Styling a DIV is just fine. The DIV can be used to semantically indicate a section of text and may contain several P tags, for example. Then you could style to DIV by adding a border. Now the structure is semantic, and the visual effect (the horizontal line) is in the CSS where it belongs. -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
i agree with the logical separation. that is what i would like to show. i guess a screen reader would let the operator know that there is a division of information on the page. this is what i want to accomplish with the note; to let screen readers know that this is an aside to what the main content on the page is. so how do i make the hr black in ff and opera? with the borders like one poster advised? i had this problem once before and can't remember how i solved the problem, but i don't think it was using borders on the hr. the test page that is up has the css border and just below it is the hr at the top of the page; and they are above on the note. in ff and opera it looks like a sand-colored divot on the page, but in ie it's a black line. there is nothing in the index of eric meyer's 3rd edition css definitive guide about hrs and styling them, so i'm a bit perplexed at the moment. dwain On 2/19/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dwain Alford wrote: as long as i'm good to go with what i have, away with the hrs. Uh, realizing, I hope, that the prior poster may be wrong :-) Your HR will show a logical separation exists without depending on presentational styling via CSS. But I won't see your pretty /non-semantic/ DIV border using Lynx, for example... FWIW! On 2/19/07, *Lucien Stals* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An HR element is effectively presentation markup. It's a *visual* break in the page. This means that if you are working towards proper semantic markup, you shouldn't be using the HR element. Styling a DIV is just fine. The DIV can be used to semantically indicate a section of text and may contain several P tags, for example. Then you could style to DIV by adding a border. Now the structure is semantic, and the visual effect (the horizontal line) is in the CSS where it belongs. -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
currently i am using borders on divs to achieve this effect and you should use borders on the hr as well. the color property changes the text color for the hr, but it doesn't contain any text. give the hr a top or bottom 1px black border, and 0px on the other sides, and it should work. tho i'm not sure i agree with using hr to begin with. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hr won't turn black
Give the hr a background-color and set the border to none. On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:44:46 +1000, Dwain Alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: after following several threads, i have converted my site to html 4.01. what i want to do is section the parts of my page with hrs. i can't figure out why the styling of the hr does not work in ff or opera. currently i am using borders on divs to achieve this effect, but to my understanding the hr would be semantically correct to separate the page into sections rather than use borders on divs as presentation. the last two hrs on the test page separate a side note from the rest of the content. i guess i could live with the presentational effect of the border that is currently being used at the top of the page. i have not removed the borders from the css, but you can see the faint line of the hr and its initial placement. what say you of my reasoning and what would be the best practice; and if it's for the hr, how do i make it black? http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/alaskan-dream.html http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/css/kddindipix.css dwain -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
