Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts! === Firefox 1.5.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 == IE 5.2 on Macintosh Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC) == Opera 9.01 on Macintosh Opera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en) == Safari 2.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Got it for FF2...Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0Nice!adamOn 10/27/06, Charles Eaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts!===Firefox 1.5.0 on MacintoshMozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7)Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 ==IE 5.2on MacintoshMozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC)==Opera 9.01 on MacintoshOpera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en)== Safari 2.0 on MacintoshMozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9(KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Thanks for the feedback. I got some good off-list feedback as well and have [successfully I hope] added Camino and SeaMonkey, as well as a future version of Camino and the up-and-coming Firefox 3. It's unlikely that the scriptlets would ever be needed for these, they're really meant for the oddball situation where one wants to return specific styles in a pinch for, say, an old Opera version or something, but I'm trying to keep it up-to-date anyway. Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Adam Darowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Got it for FF2... Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0 Nice! adam On 10/27/06, Charles Eaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts! === Firefox 1.5.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 == IE 5.2 on Macintosh Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC) == Opera 9.01 on Macintosh Opera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en) == Safari 2.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php What is the purpose of this script? Browser sniffing is an out dated and unreliable technique. Browsers has long had the ability to spoof User-Agent headers. Why are you continuing to promote its use in anyway whatsoever? -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Promoting it's use, Lachlan? For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff. Frankly, based on the number of feed subscribers I have I'm surprised it's as popular as it is. It was never meant to be anything more than a playground for my own use. I owned the domain name so I decided to put it to some use. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. I did add some content as it pertains to trying to make the stuff on there forward compatible and accessible when I realized people were following the content. I do try to make quality experiments. And people are welcome to use them if they want. That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. As far as people spoofing browsers, I suppose if some cracker doesn't get the right style info I won't be too worried about it. It's not meant to support a security function at all. I do have one script on the site that does have a security function (hiding email) but due to browser spoofing I write in no uncertain terms that it shouldn't be relied upon (even through I've never gotten a single spam email on that address since I posted it -- knock on wood). Regarding the purpose of the script: I state why I made it and what it's used for right on the site. Please read that instead of making me write it again. That would save us both some time and not waste the time of the list subscribers. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. I really have no appreciation for that. I asked for a quick favor from the members to check something because I'm not a Mac user, I got a response, then returned with a thank you. This doesn't really have to turn into some argument does it? Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php What is the purpose of this script? Browser sniffing is an out dated and unreliable technique. Browsers has long had the ability to spoof User-Agent headers. Why are you continuing to promote its use in anyway whatsoever? -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff... Woah! Calm down, I wasn't attacking you or your right to publish it, just questioning it's usefulness. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. Perhaps I should rephrase my question. I can clearly see from the site that the intention is to allow authors to send alternate stylesheets to specific browsers, but when and why would that be a good idea, given that there are other more reliable techniques available? That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. Browser sniffing has a very long history of abuse. Traditionally, one of the major problems with it is that authors generally only sniffed for the 2 or 3 major browsers of the time and effectively ignored everything else, often with significant consequences for the user. Granted, it is possible to use it responsibly, but like anything, it can be, and has been, significantly abused. Newer and more reliable techniques are available for many things, like conditional comments for IE. In a way, CCs could be considered a form of browser sniffing, but, unlike sniffing the UA string, their reliability is effectively guaranteed, since no other browser supports conditional comments (except for NN4, but that used a different syntax). Besides, if you find yourself hacking for anything but IE, generally speaking, it's a good indicator that you need to rethink your approach. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. That's another problem with it. Because it's so quick and easy to do browser sniffing, it's easy for authors to ignore the real problem and just focus on a quick and dirty hack like this. In so many cases, a hack-free solution is available and is always a much better alternative. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. Your experimental site is not the issue, you don't have defend it. This discussion just about the merits of one particular technique. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. My apparent popularity is irrelevant, we're all equals here. I really didn't mean to be aggressive. However, having re-read what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way, and for that, I apologise. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Hello Lachlan, Thank you for your considerate reply. This idea was conceived one day when I had finished a site I was building for a client and it was pixel-perfect in everything... but then a bug reared its ugly head when I did a final test in Opera (8.5 if I recall). You are absolutely correct in stating that using a fall-back like this doesn't address the real issue: namely a broken style somewhere. At the time, though, I was frustrated. A solid fix for Opera broke the design in other browsers causing me grief when I thought the job was done-done. Everything I tried caused a nasty chain reaction. One of those Grrr moments if you know what I mean. I remember muttering to myself that *I sure wish there were conditional comments for Opera* (gotta hand it to IE for perfecting that). Since I'm aware of no other method used by Opera, the PHP browser sniffer was born and I could dish out a one-liner for Opera, fix my problem, and get on with my next project. I ended up doing a slew of them in the experiment as sort of a repository just in case. A last resort. _Most_ of my newer sites don't use any additional style sheets or hacks Either I've gotten handy with CSS or I'm just getting lucky. This was one of those moments I drew a four of clubs instead of the ace of spades so I grabbed the deck and dealt myself a new card. ;-) Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff... Woah! Calm down, I wasn't attacking you or your right to publish it, just questioning it's usefulness. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. Perhaps I should rephrase my question. I can clearly see from the site that the intention is to allow authors to send alternate stylesheets to specific browsers, but when and why would that be a good idea, given that there are other more reliable techniques available? That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. Browser sniffing has a very long history of abuse. Traditionally, one of the major problems with it is that authors generally only sniffed for the 2 or 3 major browsers of the time and effectively ignored everything else, often with significant consequences for the user. Granted, it is possible to use it responsibly, but like anything, it can be, and has been, significantly abused. Newer and more reliable techniques are available for many things, like conditional comments for IE. In a way, CCs could be considered a form of browser sniffing, but, unlike sniffing the UA string, their reliability is effectively guaranteed, since no other browser supports conditional comments (except for NN4, but that used a different syntax). Besides, if you find yourself hacking for anything but IE, generally speaking, it's a good indicator that you need to rethink your approach. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. That's another problem with it. Because it's so quick and easy to do browser sniffing, it's easy for authors to ignore the real problem and just focus on a quick and dirty hack like this. In so many cases, a hack-free solution is available and is always a much better alternative. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. Your experimental site is not the issue, you don't have defend it. This discussion just about the merits of one particular technique. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. My apparent popularity is irrelevant, we're all equals here. I really didn't mean to be aggressive. However, having re-read what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way, and for that, I apologise. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
