Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Some considerations about the Precise theme
In regards to going lighter with Lubuntu, we must remember our key targets and goal. I switched my GTK and Openbox themes to dark themes and it added another 40 minutes to my netbook's battery when on full brightness, over an hour with minimal brightness. I took every step to ensure that it was just the colors changing that changed the battery life. Being LXDE aims at having a minimal footprint, using dark themes helps minimize power consumption, continuing with the goal. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Some considerations about the Precise theme
You're right. Dark themes are battery savers, but if they're too dark it cause fuzzy eyes. Too much light cause eye fatigue. That's why the Oneiric wall is not as light as older ones, but still light blue. And there're lots of reasons to be blue. First is corporative. Second is usability and eye-friendly (and allows hours and hours of fun :D ). You can check this: http://books.google.com/books/about/Art_and_visual_perception.html?id=9RktoatXGQ0C if you want more reasons about what I'm doing for every pixel I design. It's not just aesthetics. Design means usability. That's why I like window and menu shadows, they improve visibility and gives attention to the first plane on screen. I know, I know, it's boring. But look, Suse is green. I think it's a mistake associate green (as leaf or nature colour) with energy efficiency. You can make black thing and keep efficient. Also, PUD Linux and Vector are green now. Even some people asked me about including yellow wallpapers because it's warm. You know it cannot fit for everybody. So going more neutral this time, as neutral as you'll can use any wallpaper and still looking good with unsaturated (gray) panels and windows. http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Josh Embrey thelastorph...@gmail.com In regards to going lighter with Lubuntu, we must remember our key targets and goal. I switched my GTK and Openbox themes to dark themes and it added another 40 minutes to my netbook's battery when on full brightness, over an hour with minimal brightness. I took every step to ensure that it was just the colors changing that changed the battery life. Being LXDE aims at having a minimal footprint, using dark themes helps minimize power consumption, continuing with the goal. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp b1.pngb2.pngb3.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Some considerations about the Precise theme
Besides, green would look like Mint LXDE. I think black is a good thing, but that's me. On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:28:33 +0100 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) rafaellag...@gmail.com wrote: You're right. Dark themes are battery savers, but if they're too dark it cause fuzzy eyes. Too much light cause eye fatigue. That's why the Oneiric wall is not as light as older ones, but still light blue. And there're lots of reasons to be blue. First is corporative. Second is usability and eye-friendly (and allows hours and hours of fun :D ). You can check this: http://books.google.com/books/about/Art_and_visual_perception.html?id=9RktoatXGQ0C if you want more reasons about what I'm doing for every pixel I design. It's not just aesthetics. Design means usability. That's why I like window and menu shadows, they improve visibility and gives attention to the first plane on screen. I know, I know, it's boring. But look, Suse is green. I think it's a mistake associate green (as leaf or nature colour) with energy efficiency. You can make black thing and keep efficient. Also, PUD Linux and Vector are green now. Even some people asked me about including yellow wallpapers because it's warm. You know it cannot fit for everybody. So going more neutral this time, as neutral as you'll can use any wallpaper and still looking good with unsaturated (gray) panels and windows. http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Josh Embrey thelastorph...@gmail.com In regards to going lighter with Lubuntu, we must remember our key targets and goal. I switched my GTK and Openbox themes to dark themes and it added another 40 minutes to my netbook's battery when on full brightness, over an hour with minimal brightness. I took every step to ensure that it was just the colors changing that changed the battery life. Being LXDE aims at having a minimal footprint, using dark themes helps minimize power consumption, continuing with the goal. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install Problem
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:03:38 -0500 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Stephen, I found that to enter GRUB you simply press and hold SHIFT. I added the parameter to the end of the the boot command and booted they system and it did the same thing.Lubuntu splash and then the screen goes blank. Tim On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Stephen Smally eco.st...@fastwebnet.itwrote: On 11/17/2011 04:49 AM, Tim Bernhard wrote: Hi Everyone, I'm, trying to resurrect an old Sony Vaio PCG-9401. This thing is an old Windose ME machine that came with AMD processor, 12GB hard drive and 64mb of RAM. I had a 128mb stick of pc-100 so I dropped that in to bring the RAM up to 192mb. I installed Lubuntu using the mini.iso. It took a while but the install completed. The problem is that after rebooting the system I get the following message: vt596_smbus :00:07.4: SMBUS: Error: Host SMBus controller not enabled! - upgrade BIOS or use force=1 After that, the Lubuntu splash screen is briefly displayed and then the screen goes blank. Any ideas? Thanks, Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp try to enter into the grub (you have to hit some keys if it doesn't show up automatically, something like Canc, google for it), go on the line that says L/Ubuntu * with Linux * (* means the version of the system, 11.10 with linux 3 or so on), enter e (to edit the entry) and add force=1 after quiet splash. this because the message says: upgrade BIOS or use force=1 This mean that you grub is too old for Lubuntu, you have to upgrade it, or you can add force=1 at the start to avoid the problem. if it works i will tell you how to make it persistent (by default when you edit an entry the changes you made aren't persistent). Stephen Smally P.S. sorry for the different font It would appear there isn't really a solution for this problem, from what I've found googling. :( To cheer you up though, todays xkcd http://xkcd.org/ :) My only sugestion is to try the alternate install, rather than the minimal method. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Some considerations about the Precise theme
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:39:40 + Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com wrote: Besides, green would look like Mint LXDE. I think black is a good thing, but that's me. I like green as well but, suse also use it as their corporate colours. Black also looks nice , CrunchBang Linux shows how well this works. We could of cause go community orange :) The problem with green or black themes, is they often don't look good on old CRT monitors. Whereas blue appears to look OK even when the gamma settings are somewhat adrift. From the users I have dealt with over the years, blue themes tend not to create any real reaction - of love or hate - that black or green themes can. Stick with blue, the themes we've had so far have all been very pleasant and usable even though I'm not a real fan of blue, it doesn't annoy me like some colours. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fwd: Launchpad: Reminder about lubuntu-desktop's PPAs
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:07:03 +0700 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Thanks Mario. Currently, the situation is not very nice, the mailing list is not open anymore, and the PPA is too common. We have to change the mailing or the PPA location, or both. About the mailing list, the best solution is probably to switch to one (or 1 for user help, and 1 for devel ?) on https://lists.ubuntu.com/, since it's a more standard mailing list (no need to be member of the team). It would be nice to have the mailing list on https://lists.ubuntu.com this will bring Lubuntu on par with the other official derivatives and may make it easier for people to find, and subscribe. What would be the difference be between the user and devel lists? Having the two often leads to cross posting when there is a relatively small development team and user base. This can be seen on the LXDE lists. The PPA will probably disappears with the time, we need more specialized PPAs, instead of one with many various stuff in it. This would be helpful. PPAs with all-sorts in are only slightly short of useless, as you end you having to pin some applications to stop them upgrading in order to try a new version of another. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install Problem
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 5:11 AM, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.comwrote: It would appear there isn't really a solution for this problem, from what I've found googling. :( To cheer you up though, todays xkcd http://xkcd.org/ :) My only sugestion is to try the alternate install, rather than the minimal method. -- Yorvyk Thanks, I ended up using Wary (from Puppy Linux) and was able to get it running. Not the most elegant solution, but it works. It will probably never get used anyway. My friend just wanted something for his father to use when he hangs around his office. He was going to buy something else so I decided to see if I could get Lubuntu on it. Thanks for the XKCD too. Perfect! I love this one: http://xkcd.com/149/ :) Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Ubuntu Site
I'm wondering how people find out about Ubuntu derivatives? When I look at the Ubuntu site I don't see anything about other Ubuntu based distros. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Ubuntu Site
Yes, it's a bit tricky. Look at this: http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives They're called derivatives, not flavours, so they look like mutations from the original. With OpenSuse it's easier: http://software.opensuse.org/121/es They look like another type of same distro, I mean, 32bit, 64bit, LXDE variant, KDE variant... http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com I'm wondering how people find out about Ubuntu derivatives? When I look at the Ubuntu site I don't see anything about other Ubuntu based distros. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp b3.pngb1.pngb2.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an impact on Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700 From: Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com To: Ubuntu Kernel Team kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the non-PAE i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE kernel. Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium II, 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are no laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these minimum requirements. Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to hear from the development community why we should continue to maintain a kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of users of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable. If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc. rtg P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension -- Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
But there're Lubuntu users on Pentium II and similar machines. In fact they're happy an OS can handle those trashy computers and make them useable. Will this affect those users? http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an impact on Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700 From: Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com To: Ubuntu Kernel Team kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the non-PAE i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE kernel. Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium II, 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are no laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these minimum requirements. Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to hear from the development community why we should continue to maintain a kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of users of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable. If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc. rtg P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension -- Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp b2.pngb3.pngb1.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Yes it will affect Pentium II. Do we have options of compiling the kernel within lubuntu to continue support. 2011/11/18 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) rafaellag...@gmail.com But there're Lubuntu users on Pentium II and similar machines. In fact they're happy an OS can handle those trashy computers and make them useable. Will this affect those users? http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an impact on Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700 From: Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com To: Ubuntu Kernel Team kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the non-PAE i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE kernel. Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium II, 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are no laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these minimum requirements. Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to hear from the development community why we should continue to maintain a kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of users of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable. If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc. rtg P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension -- Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- God Bless ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
No, we have to rely on kernel in the repositories. Regards, Julien Lavergne On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:43:45 +0300 Matthew Byers faintstlsa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes it will affect Pentium II. Do we have options of compiling the kernel within lubuntu to continue support. 2011/11/18 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) rafaellag...@gmail.com But there're Lubuntu users on Pentium II and similar machines. In fact they're happy an OS can handle those trashy computers and make them useable. Will this affect those users? http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an impact on Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700 From: Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com To: Ubuntu Kernel Team kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the non-PAE i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE kernel. Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium II, 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are no laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these minimum requirements. Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to hear from the development community why we should continue to maintain a kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of users of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable. If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc. rtg P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension -- Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- God Bless -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
I think this harks back to how long we will support 10.04 for, we barely have enough people to backport to that - asking for a 2nd set of backporting may well be beyond the small number of devs we have. For me, with dropping of chipsets after 10.04, maybe we could concentrate on keeping 10.04 alive? If it were actually an LTS they could expect support until 2015, the kernel should be updated until then, but someone like Jmarsden would have to agree to issue periodic updates. JMarsden did issue a 10.04.1 release but there was little reply in terms of getting it tested. As to hosting any iso's, I remain committed to hosting the 'older' iso's for Lubuntu that were pre-adoption by Canonical stage on my server area. Regards, Phill. On 18 November 2011 17:25, PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: Is it possible to keep an unofficial kernel for old abandoned cpus in lubuntu ppa, if there are people willing to maintain it? On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 1:18 AM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: No, it means that the CPus need to have support for PAE, it's independent of the memory. Also, the range of hardware affected is not so clear, see the thread on ubuntu-devel. I already answered that depending of the list of hardware affected, it could be a big support drop for Lubuntu. Regards, Julien Lavergne On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:44:20 + Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com wrote: If I understand right, this will only affect those on said machines IF they have ~4GB RAM. Which is unlikely, considering they have Pentium IIs. But I agree, we should keep the old kernels for a bit longer. But then we throw a dilemma, where we don't get new kernels. Unless you want a kernel developer for Lubuntu. On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:39:02 +0100 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) rafaellag...@gmail.com wrote: But there're Lubuntu users on Pentium II and similar machines. In fact they're happy an OS can handle those trashy computers and make them useable. Will this affect those users? http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/ http://www.lubuntu.net/ 2011/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an impact on Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel. Regards, Julien Lavergne Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700 From: Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com To: Ubuntu Kernel Team kernel-t...@lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the non-PAE i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE kernel. Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium II, 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are no laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these minimum requirements. Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to hear from the development community why we should continue to maintain a kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of users of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable. If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc. rtg P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension -- Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing
[Lubuntu-desktop] Roadmap: Bugs to fix before pcmanfm 1.0 release.
I just took hours and cleaned up the bug tracker of pcmanfm and did some triage for all of the opened bugs today. Here are the remaining ones I'm going to fix for 1.0 release. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?limit=100func=group_id=156956atid=801864assignee=status=1category=artgroup=keyword=submitter=artifact_id=assignee=status=1category=artgroup=557433submitter=keyword=artifact_id=submit=Filtermass_category=mass_priority=mass_resolution=mass_assignee=mass_artgroup=mass_status=mass_cannedresponse=_visit_cookie=411641f74b63b494a940e7e7b370a98d The other ones are categorized and labeled with 1.1, 1.5, and 2.0 respectively. Now it's clear what to do for 1.0 release. Custom actions support for the popup menus is already finished. (experimental and not recommended for daily use yet) Now I'm fixing some bugs found in file operations and tried to make the file operations less CPU intensive. I'm not able to give a nice time table or release schedule since I have to find some spare time for coding. I, however, have did my best to at least define some clear goals for 1.0 release in this bug list. There will be no change in strings/translations, or UI. Thank you all for supporting. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Last year they dropped support for a lot of machines, now they will drop for a lot more? What are the exact benefits of dropping all of that? Lubuntu is aimed to be fast, but it's able to resurrect those old hardware so: what will be the the future for those old machines in the near future? Support for those machines is NOT a waste of space or code, since Lubuntu can handle them :) -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Ubuntu Site
Tim, On Friday, November 18, 2011 8:26 AM, Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wondering how people find out about Ubuntu derivatives? When I look at the Ubuntu site I don't see anything about other Ubuntu based distros. It is there. Three mouse clicks from http://www.ubuntu.com : Projects - About Ubuntu - Derivatives I suspect that in practice, more people learn about them by asking others who use them. Word of mouth is *still* a good way to publicize something. So, if you like Lubuntu, tell your friends about it :) Jonathan -- Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Friday, November 18, 2011 7:43 PM, Matthew Byers faintstlsa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes it will affect Pentium II. Evidence, please? That is not what the original email said at all. It is also not what all the info I have on which CPUs can do PAE says. As far as I know, Pentium Pro and Pentium II CPUs all can do PAE, except for some 400MHz Pentium M mobile CPUs. As I understand the email, and based on by fading memory of which CPUs do PAE, requiring PAE will only exclude Pentium I, a few 400MHz Pentium M, really old AMD chips, and the less known alternatives such as the Geode and the VIA C3. All normal Pentium II processors should handle PAE just fine. It looks like wikipedia agrees with this (not that it is always 100% accurate, but still, it's an easy to find online source). Do you have info (or real world experience) that indicates otherwise? *If* this proposed change makes it impractical to run on a Pentium II, we need to stand up and be counted. If (as I suspect) it only prevents use on Pentium I, really old AMD, VIA C3 and Geode, then ... that's a much smaller population of still-working computers, and I suggest we let it slide. Jonathan -- Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those CPUs were used with 2, 4 and 8 GB of HD?? *If* this proposed change makes it impractical to run on a Pentium II, we need to stand up and be counted. If (as I suspect) it only prevents use on Pentium I, really old AMD, VIA C3 and Geode, then ... that's a much smaller population of still-working computers, and I suggest we let it slide. Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
There comes a point where hardware becomes obsolete. Ubuntu itself is not aiming to be for low end machines and for a desktop is that is trying to hit the more cutting edge market last decades equipment is a waste of resources. I can understand why they're cutting it. As time goes on support for old systems will be dropped. But also, time turns new systems into old systems. For the people still using a pentium, it really is time for a new computer. The Pentium came out in 93 and the Pentium Just in 97. They had good runs. On Nov 18, 2011 7:46 PM, Phill Whiteside phi...@vpolink.com wrote: Hiyas JM, So there is no need to support the dropping of chip sets at 10.04, and none of at the next release? If Lubuntu cannot support old hardware, as julien has argued pleaded about What is the point of Lubuntu? Have a think of that question. It is one I have been asked many times, and is it exactly things like this that let me say me say This is the point... regards, Phill. On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Friday, November 18, 2011 7:43 PM, Matthew Byers faintstlsa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes it will affect Pentium II. Evidence, please? That is not what the original email said at all. It is also not what all the info I have on which CPUs can do PAE says. As far as I know, Pentium Pro and Pentium II CPUs all can do PAE, except for some 400MHz Pentium M mobile CPUs. As I understand the email, and based on by fading memory of which CPUs do PAE, requiring PAE will only exclude Pentium I, a few 400MHz Pentium M, really old AMD chips, and the less known alternatives such as the Geode and the VIA C3. All normal Pentium II processors should handle PAE just fine. It looks like wikipedia agrees with this (not that it is always 100% accurate, but still, it's an easy to find online source). Do you have info (or real world experience) that indicates otherwise? *If* this proposed change makes it impractical to run on a Pentium II, we need to stand up and be counted. If (as I suspect) it only prevents use on Pentium I, really old AMD, VIA C3 and Geode, then ... that's a much smaller population of still-working computers, and I suggest we let it slide. Jonathan -- Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
I guess the point ends up simply being lxde Ubuntu. That is fine for a guy like myself because Lubuntu is awsome on my modern laptops, but I can see how it deviates from the original mission. nbsp; I feel bad for you guys. Maybe official status isn't what's best for Lubuntu OR maybe you guys need to do a side project/distro? (I know, you need more devs.) Tim -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Nov 18, 2011 7:48 PM, Phill Whiteside lt;phi...@vpolink.comgt; wrote: Hiyas JM, So there is no need to support the dropping of chip sets at 10.04, and none of at the next release? If nbsp;Lubuntu cannot support old hardware, as julien has argued amp; pleaded about nbsp;What is the point of Lubuntu?nbsp; Have a think of that question. It is one I have been asked many times, and is it exactly things like this that let me say me say This is the point...nbsp; regards, Phill. On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Jonathan Marsden lt;jmars...@fastmail.fmgt; wrote: On Friday, November 18, 2011 7:43 PM, Matthew Byers lt;faintstlsa...@gmail.comgt; wrote: gt; Yes it will affect Pentium II. Evidence, please? nbsp;That is not what the original email said at all. nbsp;It is also not what all the info I have on which CPUs can do PAE says. As far as I know, Pentium Pro and Pentium II CPUs all can do PAE, except for some 400MHz Pentium M mobile CPUs. As I understand the email, and based on by fading memory of which CPUs do PAE, requiring PAE will only exclude Pentium I, a few 400MHz Pentium M, really old AMD chips, and the less known alternatives such as the Geode and the VIA C3. All normal Pentium II processors should handle PAE just fine. nbsp;It looks like wikipedia agrees with this (not that it is always 100% accurate, but still, it's an easy to find online source). Do you have info (or real world experience) that indicates otherwise? *If* this proposed change makes it impractical to run on a Pentium II, we need to stand up and be counted. nbsp;If (as I suspect) it only prevents use on Pentium I, really old AMD, VIA C3 and Geode, then ... that's a much smaller population of still-working computers, and I suggest we let it slide. Jonathan -- nbsp;Jonathan Marsden nbsp;jmars...@fastmail.fm ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to nbsp; nbsp; : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help nbsp; : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Has anyone read the posts from the developers here? Julien asked for comment, Jonathan did some research and found that only Pentium I and a limited number of Pentium II mobiles and a sprinkling of even less other types of CPUs would be affected. I'm not certain but to me even for the Lubuntu goals this seems to be a very small user base. Can we stop thinking the worst and get back to going about the process of seeing if it will actually hinder the Lubuntu goals or not. The Ubuntu developers have only put it out as a something that MAY happen depending on feedback. We need to decide what sort of feedback the team needs to give. So to this end, my question is, is there a simple command people can run to see if their CPU can run PAE kernels? I would have thought if cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae would not give any output if the CPUs weren't capable? I'm not an expert so just wanting to confirm. That way, instead of just complaining we can request users run this, see if they will be affected and report back. We can then generate a team stance and report back to the Ubuntu developers with some real data. -- Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On 11/18/2011 04:45 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote: So there is no need to support the dropping of chip sets at 10.04, and none of at the next release? The changes in 10.10 that cause it to be unusable on some CPUs are already made. I am unclear which exact CPU models can run 10.10 and 11.04 and 11.10 default Ubuntu kernels, but which lack PAE. I think that there are *very* few such CPUs out there in working general purpose desktop or laptop computers (not embedded stuff like Soekris and WRAP boards in routers etc.)... how many such machines do you own? How many people can you name who use such CPUs to run Lubuntu today, as their primary PC to do useful computing, not just for testing? If Lubuntu cannot support old hardware, as julien has argued pleaded about * What is the point of Lubuntu? * The more nuanced question is how old, and which old hardware, it is important for Lubuntu to continue to support. The choice is not between all old hardware and no old hardware at all. So the melodrama does not really help here. We already told the community we would support Lubuntu 10.04 as an LTS, so we should keep that commitment (though I don't think we are doing a very good job of it, to be honest!). But we made a commitment, so we should do what we can to honour it. That is not in question here. The current issue then becomes a (much narrower, to my mind) one: Is it worth fighting the proposed change requiring PAE capability in default Ubuntu i386 kernels, and do we have the resources to do so? Based on my current understanding of which CPUs can run Oneiric default kernels, but cannot support PAE, I don't think it is worth fighting this one. I think there are far more working usable PII and PIII machines with 128MB or 256MB of RAM that Lubuntu can be useful on, and that are worth our time and attention, than there are general purpose machines with Via C3 or Geode LX processors in that people want to run Lubuntu on. That's just my opinion. Asking me to please think is unlikely to change it :) If you have more specific information about which exact CPUs are affected, and how many Lubuntu users own and use such machines, please share it. That information *might* change it. Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On 11/18/2011 05:43 PM, Jared Norris wrote: So to this end, my question is, is there a simple command people can run to see if their CPU can run PAE kernels? I would have thought if cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae would not give any output if the CPUs weren't capable? I'm not an expert so just wanting to confirm. That works, but is inelegant. You win a UUOC award, see http://partmaps.org/era/unix/award.html grin! My suggested equivalent (but shorter, clearer and more efficient) command would be grep pae /proc/cpuinfo Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On 11/18/2011 11:50 AM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: Last year they dropped support for a lot of machines, now they will drop for a lot more? A lot? How did you determine this, and can you let us know the numeric upper and lower bounds of a lot in the second phrase of this description? :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On 19 November 2011 16:00, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/18/2011 05:43 PM, Jared Norris wrote: So to this end, my question is, is there a simple command people can run to see if their CPU can run PAE kernels? I would have thought if cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae would not give any output if the CPUs weren't capable? I'm not an expert so just wanting to confirm. That works, but is inelegant. You win a UUOC award, see http://partmaps.org/era/unix/award.html grin! My suggested equivalent (but shorter, clearer and more efficient) command would be grep pae /proc/cpuinfo Jonathan Hah thanks, I thought I did well for someone who couldn't program a hello world script, goes to show why you are great for the Lubuntu community (keeping things efficient) and I am only capable of documenting how great you and Julien are ;) So time for everyone to run the command and let us know if you get no output. Receiving no output from the command indicates that it's possible your CPU might be one of the ones they are talking about removing support for by dropping PAE kernels. That will be the true test of if this will impact us at all. If no one reports having a problem then really all this is a storm in a teacup. -- Regards, Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
