Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users (popularity-contest)
On 12/17/2011 04:36 PM, Philip wrote: > Would it be possible to include something like a voluntary survey > with a round of updates? That would be better than raw numbers, and > the users who care enough to fill it out would probably provide the > best data. Would this definitely be "better than raw numbers"? How do you know this? That's a *very* bold statement -- do you have data to back it up? It could accidentally be a very biased sample; "users who care enough" might all be significantly more experienced and techie than "users who do not care enough", for example, and so exhibit rather different usage patterns. And now, if we were to trust the survey data, we might accidentally skew our decisions based on this biased sample, and lose our less-techie users... not what we want. Or, maybe, our experienced users all have lots of work to do and lots of spam email, and will reflexively reject all survey requests, but newcomers are so enthusiastic that they will fill them in; in that case you could get the opposite bias. It seems to me that you cannot be sure your survey data would be "better" unless you have done all kinds of work (perhaps field trials, and appropriate statistical analysis of the results) to demonstrate that. Have you in fact done that work? As you must be aware, since you will already have researched this field in some depth before proposing something new, the existing popularity-contest package is a well established attempt to gather this kind of data, from all those who enable it, based on what people install, rather than on what they run. Debian automatically graphs the data it provides, all the way back to at least 2004, for example: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=bash There is Ubuntu data at http://popcon.ubuntu.com too. I do not know whether popcon in its current form can distinguish between data from Lubuntu and data from Ubuntu; I suspect not. Will whatever new survey you are proposing clearly do better than this? Would enhancing popularity-contest and its associated infrastructure so it *does* distinguish between the various flavours of Ubuntu be as useful, or more useful, than your proposal? How do current numbers of users (as reported by popcon) installing lubuntu-desktop or lxde-common compare to those installing ubuntu-desktop, for example? Overall, I recommend using existing tools and data over trying to build a new survey mechanism from scratch. Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On 12/17/2011 04:19 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: > 2011/12/17 Gabriel Salles >> Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and >> only download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some >> home users do this if they have few machines. > Off topic, but just to know, can you point me on how to do that? Use any of the relevant packages for doing that, such as apt-mirror, apt-proxy or apt-cacher-ng . There's an ancient tutorial on howtoforge that might still be relevant, if you need a tutorial (reading the docs that come with the package is better, IMO!). http://www.howtoforge.com/local_debian_ubuntu_mirror Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Let me clarify with an example. I don't use any of the penguin games that come with Lubuntu. I'm assuming most of you don't either. If you had data that said virtually no Lubuntu users used the games, you could take that into consideration when trying to balance out what to include in the next version. It seems you like guys speculate a lot about what your users are doing, instead of knowing, and this leads to difficult decision-making processes. More data might make it easier to, for instance, decide which browser to include. And I don't imply that data should *dictate* decisions--it should simply be a factor. Would it be possible to include something like a voluntary survey with a round of updates? That would be better than raw numbers, and the users who care enough to fill it out would probably provide the best data. Also: I don't care much about popularity, and I think the numbers at distrowatch are little more than meaningless. I'm talking about getting data from the committed Lubuntu users. PF On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > Le 12/17/2011 03:08 AM, Philip a écrit : >> A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current >> number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a >> clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little >> dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information >> about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine >> a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how >> they use it? > I think information on how users use the system, and what they want from > it is always interesting. The problem is to organize the collect of the > information in a way it's easy to analyze. A survey could be a good idea > to gather this type of information. > > Also, having popular requests from users doesn't mean we will implement > them :) We have to keep with our policy : keep it fast and easy to use :) > > About the number of users, I personally doesn't care too much. Sure, > having a good rank in Distrowatch is nice, but we can live without it :) > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
2011/12/17 Gabriel Salles > Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and only > download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some home users > do this if they have few machines. > Off topic, but just to know, can you point me on how to do that? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Me again :)
Hello Julien, Thank you so much for your reply :) 1- I'll put this topic for discussion in the next team meeting. I would > like to set up teams, and the Marketing team is one of them. That would be great. We do need such team which should NOT be isolated from Ubuntu Team (sorry if I didn't explain myself previously). The Marketing Team Members are Lubuntu Members who will be dedicated to do one main job/task and that will be "Marketing". Also, we do need a Wiki or Documentation Team. > 2- On http://ubuntuforums.org/, I'm not sure there are dedicated forum > for Kubuntu, Xubuntu ... Using tag seems to be useful, because some > requests / questions may apply to all the derivatives. No, on Ubuntu Forum, there is no dedicated Sub-Forum for the other variant (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu or Lubuntu) but instead, there is Prefix Feature: http://i52.tinypic.com/i2ks2s.jpg I totally understand and actually SUPPORT the idea of keeping Lubuntu as it is on Ubuntu Forum but I'm not really sure whether having a Sub-Forum on Ubuntu Forum for Lubuntu is a good or bad idea? Ubuntu Forum has many Sub-Forum (Absolute Beginner Talk, General Help, Hardware and Laptops, Multimedia and Video, Desktop Environment, etc) and I was just wondering how good or bad if Lubuntu will have a Sub-Forum just like the other Categories? we are NOT isolating it, we are just Organizing it. As long as it will have Clear and Obvious Category, everyone can jump in and help. I see lots of posts from people who are not Lubuntu Users but they are willing to help and I see that daily, not to mention those who help out with testing :) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1870442 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1888933 What about a Sub-Forum on LXDE Forum? if that's possible, it would be great since I'm a moderator there. However, someone must do something please about the continuous problem on LXDE Website. It's up and down and when it's up, it's very slow. 3- Canonical doesn't provide direct financial support, unless they have > financial interest :) They already provide various support, by giving us > access to some services, seehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives for > details. What I'm thinking and wondering about: Having more resources depends on money or something else? also, if we are an official variant for Ubuntu then it's not bad idea at all if Canonical spend something to improve Lubuntu in any possible way. I have no idea how their system work and to be honest don't want to be involved, I have enough stuff to care about but I was just wondering. I'll keep searching for people who can really support us financially. In case I find someone, what shall I do? 4- Using indicator-session-gtk2 + the indicator applet of lxpanel should > work. The support for indicators in Lubuntu is not perfect, some of them > have need Ubuntu / GNOME components to run properly. Well, I think there is a bug using these on both Lubuntu 11.10 and 11.04. On 11.10, adding the above two packages will not add the username. Adding the username must be done through "indicator-me" which is gone in 11.10 and no longer in the repositories. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/07/ubuntu-11-10-menu-goodbye/ As for 11.04, indicator-me package is still in the repositories but when I added it and rebooted, it's done and on PCManFM, there is no File, Edit, etc ... I have no idea what happened. There is already some bugs and I commented on one of them but can't find it right now. I have asked that question because there is a case where there are 3 different users are using the same PC and they want something to display the name of the current logged in user beside a feature to switch to another user. "indicator-me" package has 126 files to be downloaded and installed. I was wondering if it's impossible to use "indicator me" in 11.10, is there any other alternative? Thank you :) @Everyone else who replied, thanks a lot and I'll get back to you shortly :) On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > Le 12/16/2011 05:20 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA a écrit : > > 1- I'm thinking about a Marketing Team which will be dedicated to Lubuntu > Marketing and its members will focus ONLY on Marketing. As always, I'm > willing to contribute and join but I just thought to propose the idea here > and SO SORRY if this is not the right place to do that :) > > I'll put this topic for discussion in the next team meeting. I would like > to set up teams, and the Marketing team is one of them. > > > 2- What are the chances of having a dedicated Forum JUST for Lubuntu? or > maybe a Sub-Forum either on Ubuntu Forum or LXDE Forum? needless to say I'm > more than up to this but again, I'd like to propose the idea here. > > On http://ubuntuforums.org/, I'm not sure there are dedicated forum for > Kubuntu, Xubuntu ... Using tag seems to be useful, because some requests / > questions may apply to all the derivatives. > > > 3- Lubuntu is an official variant of
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
> That won't give an accurate figure either. Companies, universities, etc. > will have a local repo or cache and only download the update once for > thousands of machines. Even some home users do this if they have few > machines. > > > -- > Yorvyk Yes, I know. But I can't think in a best way... Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:32:48 -0200 Gabriel Salles wrote: > Hi all > > I don't know if it is possible, but is there a way of Canonical count > how many IPs does an update? Maybe some specific update, like > software-center, lxterminal... I know that some computers still > doesn't use internet, but most of them use. > That won't give an accurate figure either. Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and only download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some home users do this if they have few machines. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Hi all I don't know if it is possible, but is there a way of Canonical count how many IPs does an update? Maybe some specific update, like software-center, lxterminal... I know that some computers still doesn't use internet, but most of them use. Att, Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Me again :)
Le 12/16/2011 05:20 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA a écrit : > 1- I'm thinking about a Marketing Team which will be dedicated to > Lubuntu Marketing and its members will focus ONLY on Marketing. As > always, I'm willing to contribute and join but I just thought to > propose the idea here and SO SORRY if this is not the right place to > do that :) I'll put this topic for discussion in the next team meeting. I would like to set up teams, and the Marketing team is one of them. > 2- What are the chances of having a dedicated Forum JUST for Lubuntu? > or maybe a Sub-Forum either on Ubuntu Forum or LXDE Forum? needless to > say I'm more than up to this but again, I'd like to propose the idea here. On http://ubuntuforums.org/, I'm not sure there are dedicated forum for Kubuntu, Xubuntu ... Using tag seems to be useful, because some requests / questions may apply to all the derivatives. > 3- Lubuntu is an official variant of Ubuntu now. Regarding the funds > and stuff like that, is Canonical taking care of that? what if I find > someone who can denote or help us financially? I understand it's free > OS but I'm working on that ... I'm looking for someone to denote or > help us financially. Canonical doesn't provide direct financial support, unless they have financial interest :) They already provide various support, by giving us access to some services, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives for details. > 4- Like GNOME 2.xx (say Ubuntu 10.04), how can I add my username to > the panel? is there anyway? in Ubuntu 10.04, I can see my username on > the top panel but how hard or easy is it to do the same on Lubuntu? Using indicator-session-gtk2 + the indicator applet of lxpanel should work. The support for indicators in Lubuntu is not perfect, some of them have need Ubuntu / GNOME components to run properly. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Le 12/17/2011 03:08 AM, Philip a écrit : > A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current > number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a > clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little > dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information > about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine > a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how > they use it? I think information on how users use the system, and what they want from it is always interesting. The problem is to organize the collect of the information in a way it's easy to analyze. A survey could be a good idea to gather this type of information. Also, having popular requests from users doesn't mean we will implement them :) We have to keep with our policy : keep it fast and easy to use :) About the number of users, I personally doesn't care too much. Sure, having a good rank in Distrowatch is nice, but we can live without it :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:08:57 -0500 Philip wrote: > Hi all, > > First, let me say thank you to everyone on the Lubuntu team. I have > been using Lubuntu for over a year now, and it is quite possibly the > fastest, most efficient operating system I have ever used (and I have > used many). Keep up the extraordinary work. > > A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current > number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a > clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little > dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information > about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine > a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how > they use it? > > I don't ask this because I want to burden you with another task. I > may be able to offer some help myself. I like Lubuntu, and intend to > use it well into the future. But operating systems have demonstrated > a clear tendency to eventually lose touch with and alienate their > userbase. I think Lubuntu developers, being better than average, > might recognize this common problem, and take steps to safeguard > against it. One safeguard might be the collection of this data. > > What do you think? > > Philip Fielding > Every Linux distribution would like to know how many users it has. Short of it 'phoning home' every so often nobody seems to have any idea how to get numbers of users. Estimating numbers of users from downloads is fraught with problems. I've installed both Lubuntu and Ubuntu a several machines from the one download of each ISO. Others may download the ISO to try or do a review and never use it again. Some people use the Distrowatch Page Hit Ranking as an indication of usage but, as pointed out on Linux Outlaws this is more an indication of 'mind share' rather than usage. So it's just a case of wild guess work in the end. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
