Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
I wanted to post back here with an update (after I posted the straces to the bug report[1] for PCManFM and GIMP 2.10.8 crashing). User @Janos (msg #54) said GIMP 2.8.x was crashing for him (it was fine for me the whole time PCManFM was crashing in the previous version of Lubuntu, which I strongly believe was 17.04). He switched to a PPA-served apt package of GIMP (not the "flatpack" version GIMP officially(?) serves. He said his GIMP crashes went away. (Whereas, my GIMP crashes began with 2.10.x, which I installed from flatpack.). So, I uninstalled my flatpack 2.10.8, and setup the PPA[2] and that "apt-get install" version of GIMP (still 2.10.8) loads much faster. I also noticed it doesn't cause the *profuse* PCManFM logging (when I strace PCManFM). That GIMP hasn't crashed yet. I really believe there's something about the official(?) flatpack GIMP that entangles itself with PCManFM's crashing behavior (for those experiencing it). The PCManFM strace logging was phenomenal using the flatpack GIMP. Twenty-one seconds of logging was over 60mb. When I switched to the PPA package of GIMP, the logging virtually stopped (when GIMP was the active window). I just wanted to give that update here in case anyone else is having that issue. [The PCManFM crash isn't very bad for me. I don't mind restarting PCManFM every few days. But, that GIMP crashing was *painful*. It would crash 3-4 times while editing an image. Sometimes after 10-15 minutes of getting the colors "just right." I don't think I could live with that for too long.] [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 [2] sudo add-apt-repository ppa:otto-kesselgulasch/gimp sudo apt update sudo apt install gimp -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 7:47 AM Nio Wiklund wrote: > You can try the Ubuntu pastebin, > > https://paste.ubuntu.com/ I tried but the "paste!" (submit) button timed out, ended in 502 gateway error. I think the pasted content (60meg?) was too much. I posted a message to launchpad (the bug report Walter linked to) and attached it there. (It didn't occur to me to compress it. Launchpad timed out trying to accept that msg/attachment. Hopefully I didn't create duplicate messages.). HOWEVER!!! (cue the party hats and kazoos): as I was trying to navigate my way to see previous strace file's size (via it's "properties")... PCManFM crashed! I don't remember exactly where I was getting to where I was trying to be. I don't think I reached the "right click"). I will post another msg there with that strace file. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
Den 2018-11-29 kl. 23:21, skrev Mark F: After I posted that last update, I was thinking how GIMP hasn't crashed since I started stracing pcmanfm. It would previously crash *a lot*. Much more frequently than the typical *days* between pcmanfm crashes. That seemed to confirm my suggestive mind that strace is throttling things and preventing a timing problem. However, I haven't use GIMP as much lately. So, I just took a picture (I'm fostering a dog and was overdue for a new photo). The first thing I noticed using GIMP (2.10.8): the strace log was going absolutely wild. I'm stracing pcmanfm. Usually it stops emitting when I switch to an application. (I haven't tried a lot of apps. But, I thought I saw that when switching to my chrome browser. The log went dormant.). But, with GIMP, constant log activity (but I'm not stracing it). So, that confirmed to me stracing is slowing GIMP down and it wasn't hitting the "timing problem" I've been imaging about all this (clicking too fast, or something). Alas... GIMP finally did crash. It didn't freeze (which it used to do). It just disappeared. It's been disappearing. I haven't paid attention to whether freezing stopped, or when freezing and disappearing have both been occurring. (Come to think of it, I think pcmanfm has disappeared too -- in addition to, or replacing the freezing behavior. I stopped paying attention and it was all the same thing to me.). So, I have strace-pcmanfm output when GIMP crashed. Maybe someone would like to ponder that? I tailed the last 500k (60mb) lines to a new file. That's 21 seconds worth before I ctrl-breaked out of strace (which I did within 3-5 seconds of GIMP crashing). Remember, the console (stderr) was being captured too. (I don't think I could differentiate that output if I saw it in there.). If there's a place I could upload that, let me know. (I can post it to the bug report. I was thinking this is kind of different and related more to my speculation here.). Hi Mark, You can try the Ubuntu pastebin, https://paste.ubuntu.com/ Best regards Nio -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
After I posted that last update, I was thinking how GIMP hasn't crashed since I started stracing pcmanfm. It would previously crash *a lot*. Much more frequently than the typical *days* between pcmanfm crashes. That seemed to confirm my suggestive mind that strace is throttling things and preventing a timing problem. However, I haven't use GIMP as much lately. So, I just took a picture (I'm fostering a dog and was overdue for a new photo). The first thing I noticed using GIMP (2.10.8): the strace log was going absolutely wild. I'm stracing pcmanfm. Usually it stops emitting when I switch to an application. (I haven't tried a lot of apps. But, I thought I saw that when switching to my chrome browser. The log went dormant.). But, with GIMP, constant log activity (but I'm not stracing it). So, that confirmed to me stracing is slowing GIMP down and it wasn't hitting the "timing problem" I've been imaging about all this (clicking too fast, or something). Alas... GIMP finally did crash. It didn't freeze (which it used to do). It just disappeared. It's been disappearing. I haven't paid attention to whether freezing stopped, or when freezing and disappearing have both been occurring. (Come to think of it, I think pcmanfm has disappeared too -- in addition to, or replacing the freezing behavior. I stopped paying attention and it was all the same thing to me.). So, I have strace-pcmanfm output when GIMP crashed. Maybe someone would like to ponder that? I tailed the last 500k (60mb) lines to a new file. That's 21 seconds worth before I ctrl-breaked out of strace (which I did within 3-5 seconds of GIMP crashing). Remember, the console (stderr) was being captured too. (I don't think I could differentiate that output if I saw it in there.). If there's a place I could upload that, let me know. (I can post it to the bug report. I was thinking this is kind of different and related more to my speculation here.). -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
> > Now, It's just a matter of time till I have some strace info. I'll post to > the bug report when I have something. > I just wanted to send an update: no pcmanfm crashes (nor GIMP) since running strace (as described in the previous post). I'm starting to think strace's overhead is causing the mouse clicks to be paced, preventing the crash from occurring. I mentioned in a previous post that I've been living with this for awhile,[1] and that I had developed a "feeling" that it had something to do with clicking too fast, a particular pattern of something that was too aggressive. So... now that's evolving into "it's the strace! it's *pacing* my mouse clicks for me." (ha). But, maybe there's truth to that. I did fool around with fast clicking, going crazy with the mouse (for a couple days before starting strace). Nothing happened. So, there's probably nothing to my "gut feeling" about it. If it ever crashes with strace, I'll post to the bug report (Walter linked to in a previous post). [1] Unfortunately, I don't remember when I last upgraded. I know that I had been out of support for a couple months by the time I upgraded to 18.04. Previous to whatever version that was, I had been upgrading with each release. I just looked at the Ubuntu version history and I'm pretty sure this started with 17.04. That's the version that would have fallen out of support shortly before 18.04. (But, I could be mistaken how long I wasn't getting automatic updates. Maybe it was longer and I was on 16.10. I'm pretty sure it *was not* that long. But, it definitely wasn't longer. I'm sure it was just a couple months.). -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:12 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > > I didn't think this is related because GIMP had a major upgrade. But, > GIMP > > became very unstable for me (similar random freezing; kill it, start > > again). > > Could be related if say it's somehow a GTK issue. Is this only in the > file picker or is this within the normal GIMP? The GIMP crashes are random (while color-balancing, contrast-brightness adjusting, etc.). It seems similar to the pcmanfm crash because it manifests itself when I click (and realize it's frozen). I might click to increase/decrease the brightness (in the midst of playing with those values before applying them). > The one problem with debugging tools is that you generally have to have > them running and building up logs of activity while you try to reproduce > the issue. Well, that's not normally a problem, but with one where you > don't have a clear process to reproduce the issue, you may have to wait > a long time, which might mean a huge log file. > I'm running strace now. In case anyone else is having crashes and wants to do this too: pidof pcmanfm kill strace -Ff -tt pcmanfm --desktop 2>&1 | tee strace-pcmanfm.log I didn't add the "" parm to the pcmanfm command being straced. It seemed clearer to let it remain attached to strace. I could have straced the already running/disowned pcmanfm using its PID[1]. That might be simpler. But, killing pcmanfm and starting it with strace might capture the console output in a way tracing the pid wouldn't(?). I use my laptop casually. I can manually rotate the log file. (Or, schedule an hourly cron job to do it.). Now, It's just a matter of time till I have some strace info. I'll post to the bug report when I have something. (Sidenote: For a long time these pcmanfm crashes were causing a "program crashed, would you like to send a crash report?" dialog. I always assumed someone was getting those (probably from lots of users) and divining something from it. I haven't seen that dialog for awhile. I've forgotten if I clicked something saying "never ask again." There was even a time when I thought someone was trying to fix it because after an automatic update, it seemed like the desktop restarted itself. Then it went back to me having to open a terminal and start it manually.). [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Strace , see the pidof example. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 05:49:41PM -0700, Mark F wrote: > I've always felt like it has something to do with mouse clicks not being > handled well (clicking too fast). But, that could just be my imagination, > looking for a simple reason. Well there's only one way to find out. If it's a matter of clicking too fast, then you should be able to find out some pattern/speed to clicking that should be reproducible by anyone. Try to track that down. > I didn't think this is related because GIMP had a major upgrade. But, GIMP > became very unstable for me (similar random freezing; kill it, start > again). Could be related if say it's somehow a GTK issue. Is this only in the file picker or is this within the normal GIMP? I've used GIMP in 18.04 with no issues but I'm not a heavy user. That said, it's *probably* not related. > I apologize. I didn't meant impugn 18.10. I got the impression (from an > announcement) that it was "the fist step," early-adopter sort of thing. No. More like it's the first release of Lubuntu with LXQt. The previous cycle we actually made images available for testing, though none of them were ever released. And before that we were packaging things. It's certainly something we've put a lot of time in to get to the point where we feel like it is made for prime time. That said, you should try it! > I'll read the bug comments more thoroughly. It would be nice if there was > some way to turn on debugging. I saw something about strace. The one problem with debugging tools is that you generally have to have them running and building up logs of activity while you try to reproduce the issue. Well, that's not normally a problem, but with one where you don't have a clear process to reproduce the issue, you may have to wait a long time, which might mean a huge log file. That said, some general advice on debugging is [available][1]. I apparently never read this document before because the bit about apport-retrace is not something I knew about. If your issue does indeed create a .crash file (I suspect it won't), that might be an easy way to figure it out. [1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:28 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > ... if you could add to the discussion in some way, > maybe put your heads together with the 7 other folks that claim to have > the same issue, that might be useful: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 > > Thanks! I read halfway through that and will try to pay more attention to some things. For me this started with 18.04. But, I was running 17.04 (or 16.10). I skipped at least one version (maybe two or three. I don't remember. I know I had fallen out of support by the time I installed 18.04, software-update wasn't doing anything anymore.). I've always felt like it has something to do with mouse clicks not being handled well (clicking too fast). But, that could just be my imagination, looking for a simple reason. Filesystem is EXT4. Laptop is Toshiba C55-B5299 (inexpensive, no-frills. Celeron N2830 Processor, SATA drive; Intel HD graphics, shared memory.). I didn't think this is related because GIMP had a major upgrade. But, GIMP became very unstable for me (similar random freezing; kill it, start again). It's 2.10.8 right now. I don't know what it was back when I installed 18.04. But, it was the new, dark-themed 2.10. They changed it to use GEGL(?). So, I thought that instability was due to *that*. But, maybe it's related(?). 18.10 is already ready for primetime. Why wait? I apologize. I didn't meant impugn 18.10. I got the impression (from an announcement) that it was "the fist step," early-adopter sort of thing. Maybe in April I'll try it. At this point I think I'd like to find a way to detect what's happening with pcmanfm. I'll read the bug comments more thoroughly. It would be nice if there was some way to turn on debugging. I saw something about strace. Maybe that's what I need to use. It's not a hardship to have it crash randomly. I just wish I could view something and see what happened leading up to it. Maybe some pointers are in the bug report conversation. I'll spend more time studying that and post there. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:50:10AM -0700, Mark F wrote: > Ever since I upgraded to LTS 18.04, PCmanfm crashes every 3-4 days > (sometimes more than once a day. Sometimes it takes two weeks.).[1] I have not had the experience you have had, nor have many others, but there are some people reporting a similar problem. I've struggled to try to make some sense out of it, but not being able to reproduce it, it's a bit hard. That said, if you could add to the discussion in some way, maybe put your heads together with the 7 other folks that claim to have the same issue, that might be useful: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 > I could live with it until > 19.04 when I might make the upgrade to the Qt version if it's ready for > prime time then. 18.10 is already ready for primetime. Why wait? -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
Hi Aere, On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 at 19:41, Aere Greenway wrote: > I usually like to see if the removable drive is actually ejected (no > longer in the left pane), so I change PCManFM's behavior > (Edit...Preferences) so that instead of terminating any tabs viewing the > removable drive, it switches to viewing the home folder. > Thanks for that tip! Much appreciated :) Ian -- -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/ -- Free Software page - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
(sorry - I neglected to post this reply to the entire group) On 11/25/18 10:50 AM, Mark F wrote: Ever since I upgraded to LTS 18.04, PCmanfm crashes every 3-4 days (sometimes more than once a day. Sometimes it takes two weeks.).[1] I guess I was thinking it would be fixed, so I never said anything here. (And, I guess I became used to it after a few months.). I haven't seen anyone else mentioned it. So, I'm wondering: is it just me? Or, is it low priority because LXQt is superseding LXDE? (If the latter, isn't that problematic for an LTS? If the former, is there some debugging i can turn on to see what's happening so it could be reported/fixed?). Thanks in advance! It's not a terrible problem. I could live with it until 19.04 when I might make the upgrade to the Qt version if it's ready for prime time then. [1] I have to restart it from the command line using "pcmanfm --desktop " Mark: I have not had any problems with PCManFM, though I only use my 18.04 systems for testing, and for music performance. There is a behavior of it that may seem like crashing (that isn't actually a crash) though. The default behavior in the case where it is showing a removable drive folder, when the removable drive is ejected, is to close any tab showing a folder on the removable drive. If that is the only folder (only tab) being viewed, PCManFM terminates, which may seem like a crash. I usually like to see if the removable drive is actually ejected (no longer in the left pane), so I change PCManFM's behavior (Edit...Preferences) so that instead of terminating any tabs viewing the removable drive, it switches to viewing the home folder. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
On 11/25/18 11:57 AM, Mark F wrote: Thank you. I changed that preference setting to what you use. I don't think that's it. But, I'll give it time. It happens when I click on something in pcmanfm. It freezes. I drag the window around, any part that becomes covered will be grayed out (not repainted), Sometimes it comes back. Usually not. I have to click X to close, wait a bit, then it says "not responding, kill?" I say yes, and then my desktop disappears. That's when I run the command to restart it. I don't think I've ever seen that happen. What I was thinking you might be talking about, is something different. I have "use desktop as a folder" selected in Desktop Preferences. I don't think that was default. Maybe I should go back to the default an see if that's different. I have never tried that option of the Desktop Preferences, so that might a cause of the problem. I should have given more details like that in my post. If it keeps happening, I'll post more info. It must be something specific to me since nobody else has mentioned it. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
[lubuntu-users] Desktop crashing (18.04)?
Ever since I upgraded to LTS 18.04, PCmanfm crashes every 3-4 days (sometimes more than once a day. Sometimes it takes two weeks.).[1] I guess I was thinking it would be fixed, so I never said anything here. (And, I guess I became used to it after a few months.). I haven't seen anyone else mentioned it. So, I'm wondering: is it just me? Or, is it low priority because LXQt is superseding LXDE? (If the latter, isn't that problematic for an LTS? If the former, is there some debugging i can turn on to see what's happening so it could be reported/fixed?). Thanks in advance! It's not a terrible problem. I could live with it until 19.04 when I might make the upgrade to the Qt version if it's ready for prime time then. [1] I have to restart it from the command line using "pcmanfm --desktop " -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
