Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC) (Nio Wiklund)

[Fritz Hudnut]

Also posting from above:

Not sure why these posts from 2016 came out in recent digest, but I would
support Nio & Aere's request for continuing to support i386 development, in
comparison to PPC, where it might be said that there aren't that many
machines, I would assume that there are quite a few extant PC's that are
still being used . . . around the world, and so having access to a
supported OS should be "viable" and therefore, helpful . . . .

F

>
> [continuing top posting]
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> 1. I think that we should keep making the current 32-bit versions alias
> 'i386' (with i686 kernels) of Lubuntu, Ubuntu Server, mini.iso and the
> other flavours that want to keep it.
>
> I agree with Aere's arguments (near the end of this mail).
>
> 2. I can understand and accept that PowerPC support will end.
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
> Den 2016-11-16 kl. 23:58, skrev Walter Lapchynski:
> > Aere: I think what Ubuntu is discussing is removing i386/x86/32-bit,
> > i.e. going all amd64/x64/64-bit. And yes, it would very negatively
> > impact many Lubuntu users as well as the goals of the Lubuntu project as
> > a whole.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I was not able to make it to the session. For those of us
> > in the same boat, here's some links:
> >  * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXzYG4d7poQ
> >  * EtherPad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1611-architecture-discussions
> >  * IRC: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/16/%23ubuntu-uos-core.
> html#t14:55
> >
> > The majority of this conversation concerned PPC. I think the long answer
> > is there are some rather annoying endian bugs and a yaboot issue that no
> > one currently supporting PPC (Lubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Server) has
> > the resources to deal with. Not to mention upstream. I'll let those
> > leading the discussion (cc'd) confirm this, but it sounds like by when
> > support for existing PPC releases end, it will be time to stop providing
> > any sort of PPC images.
> >
> > As far as my perspective is concerned, I'm perfectly happy with dropping
> > PPC. It makes me sad. PPC brought me to the Lubuntu community. However,
> > it becomes increasingly harder to make PPC users happy. The successes
> > that we have had in recent times are largely by accident. Neither
> > Lubuntu nor Ubuntu MATE have the resources to support PPC. It does sound
> > like Ubuntu Server will be dropping PPC. I think it only makes sense for
> > us to follow suit.
> >
> > Apparently, there are plans in place to evaluate the health of the PPC
> > port during the Z cycle and so a decision on removing PPC from the
> > archives will likely come in 6 months time. Even then, it sounds like
> > that's going to be a temporary delay to PPC's inevitable removal.
> >
> > Turning to x86, one of the things that was brought up in this discussion
> > was limited support for x86 among browsers. Chrome (and yes, upstream
> > Chromium) dropped support for it entirely. Firefox continues to provide
> > x86 support though there is [some talk][1] about removing support for
> > some CPU extensions which could affect a small subset of x86 users.
> > Probably not a big issue. Suffice it to say, this seems to be a moot
> issue.
> >
> > However, there was some discussion about the fact that since the vast
> > majority of new machines are x86_64, much in the way of development and
> > QA (even upstream) has been done on x86_64, and as such x86 bugs are
> > popping up that were not otherwise being noticed.
> >
> > Ubuntu has moved x86 download links to alternate downloads, so you have
> > to actually hunt for them. Apparently, there's not a lot of backlash on
> > this. Of course, we all know Unity isn't exactly all that usable on
> > these vintage of machines.
> >
> > One thing I'm happy to hear is that no one's talking about removing x86
> > outside of Ubuntu Desktop and Server (nothing definitive yet). It
> > doesn't sound like it's going to be removed from the archives. The
> > feeling appears that it's well supported upstream. That said, it's on
> > the shoulders of flavors to decide on what to do.
> >
> > [1]: https://chuttenblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/sse2-support-
> in-firefox-users/
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Aere Greenway
> > > wrote:
> >
> > On 11/16/2016 05:45 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
> >
> > 2016-11-14 21:36 GMT+01:00 Walter Lapchynski  > >:
> >
> > It should be pointed out that this discussion is not only
> > about PPC but it's
> > also about i386. Since i386 is a major target of Lubuntu, I
> > would advise
> > attendance.
> >
> > I'm woking this day, so I will not be able to attempt :-(
> >
> > However, dropping i386 will be a very bad signal for our users.
> It
> > will be difficult to maintain the fact that Lubuntu is for old
> > computers if this kind of support is 

Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Nio Wiklund]

[continuing top posting]

Hi everybody,

1. I think that we should keep making the current 32-bit versions alias 
'i386' (with i686 kernels) of Lubuntu, Ubuntu Server, mini.iso and the 
other flavours that want to keep it.


I agree with Aere's arguments (near the end of this mail).

2. I can understand and accept that PowerPC support will end.

Best regards
Nio

Den 2016-11-16 kl. 23:58, skrev Walter Lapchynski:

Aere: I think what Ubuntu is discussing is removing i386/x86/32-bit,
i.e. going all amd64/x64/64-bit. And yes, it would very negatively
impact many Lubuntu users as well as the goals of the Lubuntu project as
a whole.

Unfortunately, I was not able to make it to the session. For those of us
in the same boat, here's some links:
 * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXzYG4d7poQ
 * EtherPad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1611-architecture-discussions
 * IRC: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/16/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html#t14:55

The majority of this conversation concerned PPC. I think the long answer
is there are some rather annoying endian bugs and a yaboot issue that no
one currently supporting PPC (Lubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Server) has
the resources to deal with. Not to mention upstream. I'll let those
leading the discussion (cc'd) confirm this, but it sounds like by when
support for existing PPC releases end, it will be time to stop providing
any sort of PPC images.

As far as my perspective is concerned, I'm perfectly happy with dropping
PPC. It makes me sad. PPC brought me to the Lubuntu community. However,
it becomes increasingly harder to make PPC users happy. The successes
that we have had in recent times are largely by accident. Neither
Lubuntu nor Ubuntu MATE have the resources to support PPC. It does sound
like Ubuntu Server will be dropping PPC. I think it only makes sense for
us to follow suit.

Apparently, there are plans in place to evaluate the health of the PPC
port during the Z cycle and so a decision on removing PPC from the
archives will likely come in 6 months time. Even then, it sounds like
that's going to be a temporary delay to PPC's inevitable removal.

Turning to x86, one of the things that was brought up in this discussion
was limited support for x86 among browsers. Chrome (and yes, upstream
Chromium) dropped support for it entirely. Firefox continues to provide
x86 support though there is [some talk][1] about removing support for
some CPU extensions which could affect a small subset of x86 users.
Probably not a big issue. Suffice it to say, this seems to be a moot issue.

However, there was some discussion about the fact that since the vast
majority of new machines are x86_64, much in the way of development and
QA (even upstream) has been done on x86_64, and as such x86 bugs are
popping up that were not otherwise being noticed.

Ubuntu has moved x86 download links to alternate downloads, so you have
to actually hunt for them. Apparently, there's not a lot of backlash on
this. Of course, we all know Unity isn't exactly all that usable on
these vintage of machines.

One thing I'm happy to hear is that no one's talking about removing x86
outside of Ubuntu Desktop and Server (nothing definitive yet). It
doesn't sound like it's going to be removed from the archives. The
feeling appears that it's well supported upstream. That said, it's on
the shoulders of flavors to decide on what to do.

[1]: https://chuttenblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/sse2-support-in-firefox-users/

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Aere Greenway
> wrote:

On 11/16/2016 05:45 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:

2016-11-14 21:36 GMT+01:00 Walter Lapchynski >:

It should be pointed out that this discussion is not only
about PPC but it's
also about i386. Since i386 is a major target of Lubuntu, I
would advise
attendance.

I'm woking this day, so I will not be able to attempt :-(

However, dropping i386 will be a very bad signal for our users. It
will be difficult to maintain the fact that Lubuntu is for old
computers if this kind of support is dropped ...

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

Walter & Julien:

What is meant by the proposal of "dropping i386"?

Does it mean dropping all 32-bit machines (as 'i386' in Debian
packages would imply)?

If so, I think that would be a very extreme, draconian thing to do.

In my particular case, it would mean that seven of the machines in
my test-bed would have to be consigned to the junk-heap.

If it affects me this drastically, I'm sure it will negatively
impact a lot of other users.

Even if a machine can run 64-bit, if it doesn't have a lot of
memory, I will use the i386 version of the OS, because it uses the
limited memory better, and requires measurably less memory for the OS.

If, on the other hand, 

Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Fritz Hudnut]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Walter Lapchynski  wrote:

> As far as my perspective is concerned, I'm perfectly happy with dropping
> PPC. It makes me sad. PPC brought me to the Lubuntu community. However, it
> becomes increasingly harder to make PPC users happy. The successes that we
> have had in recent times are largely by accident. Neither Lubuntu nor
> Ubuntu MATE have the resources to support PPC. It does sound like Ubuntu
> Server will be dropping PPC. I think it only makes sense for us to follow
> suit.
>
> Apparently, there are plans in place to evaluate the health of the PPC
> port during the Z cycle and so a decision on removing PPC from the archives
> will likely come in 6 months time. Even then, it sounds like that's going
> to be a temporary delay to PPC's inevitable removal.
>

@et al:

I also am sad about the "demise" or withering of the PPC port, both from
Debian and Lubuntu . . . and from the slated decision by Firefox to drop
support for PPC . . . .  As I've posted before, there seemed to be a vortex
of neglect that precipitated this "event" . . . the devs seem to be looking
only at one "screen" (so to speak) and end users such as myself try to wade
through trying to figure out if problems are the inevitable "pilot error"
or . . . e.g., due to "big endian" issues that nobody is bothering to fix .
. . .  I find it also a problem that the notice for the video conference
went out to Lu users list only a couple days ahead, and that no one had
posted anything about it on the Apple User sub-forum, etc.

As an example of the difficulties experienced by users of the PPC systems,
I recently went through a bug report cycle on LP on an issue with U-MATE
possibly 14.04 on my Powermac relating to failure of the optical drive to
mount disks . . . it took many months to get passed the "Are you sure this
problem is happening, to you?"  line taken by the devs . . . even after the
multiple times I posted the data that when I simply logged out of MATE
session and into an XFCE session the problem went away . . . months went by
with no response or effort . . . finally I believe we had "exceeded the
time limits" on the bug report . . . and there were some further posts on
whether the problem was "real" . . . .  And, then suddenly, as the bug was
being closed, a minor miracle after running an update/upgrade . . . the
problem had been silently "solved" . . . & MATE was able to mount DVDs in
my Powermac.  Nobody ever posted to the bug saying, "hey we found the
problem . . . this is what we did" . . . the problem persisted as
"unresolved" and marked as "not verifiable"--then gone, but months later.

Possibly those newer to the PPC experience would have long ago moved on to
something else . . . thus supporting Martin's report of "less than .01
percent of downloads are of PPC systems."  The point is that historically
there has been finger pointing from devs that "the responsibility is with
PPC users" . . . and PPC users (I'm gathering evidence from the Ubuntu
apple sub-forum) find that "nobody is listening" . . . and in that sense,
both are right . . . .

But, still, as was mentioned by "slangasek" . . . in the video conference,
and myself in the past, here and on the sub-forum, "the AmigaOne guys are
breathing new life into PPC" . . . possibly they could run 64 bit, I don't
know on that . . . point being that they will, if not now, be looking for a
system to run on their computers . . . and it could be Ubuntu-based . . .
if it is there.  Otherwise, people just shop on to what works . . . .

Seems like the death knell would be the dropping of PPC by FF, there are
other choices, on my PPC units Qupzilla and those other browsers mentioned
don't run too well, also they are not as full featured as FF . . . my
personal PPC units are falling behind the technological curve for basic
stuff like flipping around the web, but otherwise for simple word
processing they are still running . . . Xenial . . . which for them might
be enough; but at a certain point if FF stops providing upgrades . . . will
mean the potential usefulness is diminished, even if the kernels would be
maintained--but the machines are in fact still running quite fine . . . .

So, even though it seems like there might be other OSs to choose from for
PPC, someone mentioned Arch, which seems to be a new learning curve for
those of us who started with Debian/Ubuntu/mintPPC options, and someone
mentioned "Puppy" for low spec machines . . . for someone who found their
way to linux as a way to keep what were perfectly good machines that Apple
had "unsupported" . . . it is indeed "sad" to see the benign neglect given
to PPC ports and OS's in the last few years . . . .

Sayonara, linux on PPC . . .

F
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Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

Has there been an announcement that FF will drop PPC?

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Fritz Hudnut 
wrote:

>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Walter Lapchynski  wrote:
>
>> As far as my perspective is concerned, I'm perfectly happy with dropping
>> PPC. It makes me sad. PPC brought me to the Lubuntu community. However, it
>> becomes increasingly harder to make PPC users happy. The successes that we
>> have had in recent times are largely by accident. Neither Lubuntu nor
>> Ubuntu MATE have the resources to support PPC. It does sound like Ubuntu
>> Server will be dropping PPC. I think it only makes sense for us to follow
>> suit.
>>
>> Apparently, there are plans in place to evaluate the health of the PPC
>> port during the Z cycle and so a decision on removing PPC from the archives
>> will likely come in 6 months time. Even then, it sounds like that's
>> going to be a temporary delay to PPC's inevitable removal.
>>
>
> @et al:
>
> I also am sad about the "demise" or withering of the PPC port, both from
> Debian and Lubuntu . . . and from the slated decision by Firefox to drop
> support for PPC . . . .  As I've posted before, there seemed to be a vortex
> of neglect that precipitated this "event" . . . the devs seem to be looking
> only at one "screen" (so to speak) and end users such as myself try to wade
> through trying to figure out if problems are the inevitable "pilot error"
> or . . . e.g., due to "big endian" issues that nobody is bothering to fix .
> . . .  I find it also a problem that the notice for the video conference
> went out to Lu users list only a couple days ahead, and that no one had
> posted anything about it on the Apple User sub-forum, etc.
>
> As an example of the difficulties experienced by users of the PPC systems,
> I recently went through a bug report cycle on LP on an issue with U-MATE
> possibly 14.04 on my Powermac relating to failure of the optical drive to
> mount disks . . . it took many months to get passed the "Are you sure this
> problem is happening, to you?"  line taken by the devs . . . even after the
> multiple times I posted the data that when I simply logged out of MATE
> session and into an XFCE session the problem went away . . . months went by
> with no response or effort . . . finally I believe we had "exceeded the
> time limits" on the bug report . . . and there were some further posts on
> whether the problem was "real" . . . .  And, then suddenly, as the bug was
> being closed, a minor miracle after running an update/upgrade . . . the
> problem had been silently "solved" . . . & MATE was able to mount DVDs in
> my Powermac.  Nobody ever posted to the bug saying, "hey we found the
> problem . . . this is what we did" . . . the problem persisted as
> "unresolved" and marked as "not verifiable"--then gone, but months later.
>
> Possibly those newer to the PPC experience would have long ago moved on to
> something else . . . thus supporting Martin's report of "less than .01
> percent of downloads are of PPC systems."  The point is that historically
> there has been finger pointing from devs that "the responsibility is with
> PPC users" . . . and PPC users (I'm gathering evidence from the Ubuntu
> apple sub-forum) find that "nobody is listening" . . . and in that sense,
> both are right . . . .
>
> But, still, as was mentioned by "slangasek" . . . in the video conference,
> and myself in the past, here and on the sub-forum, "the AmigaOne guys are
> breathing new life into PPC" . . . possibly they could run 64 bit, I don't
> know on that . . . point being that they will, if not now, be looking for a
> system to run on their computers . . . and it could be Ubuntu-based . . .
> if it is there.  Otherwise, people just shop on to what works . . . .
>
> Seems like the death knell would be the dropping of PPC by FF, there are
> other choices, on my PPC units Qupzilla and those other browsers mentioned
> don't run too well, also they are not as full featured as FF . . . my
> personal PPC units are falling behind the technological curve for basic
> stuff like flipping around the web, but otherwise for simple word
> processing they are still running . . . Xenial . . . which for them might
> be enough; but at a certain point if FF stops providing upgrades . . . will
> mean the potential usefulness is diminished, even if the kernels would be
> maintained--but the machines are in fact still running quite fine . . . .
>
> So, even though it seems like there might be other OSs to choose from for
> PPC, someone mentioned Arch, which seems to be a new learning curve for
> those of us who started with Debian/Ubuntu/mintPPC options, and someone
> mentioned "Puppy" for low spec machines . . . for someone who found their
> way to linux as a way to keep what were perfectly good machines that Apple
> had "unsupported" . . . it is indeed "sad" to see the benign neglect given
> to PPC ports and OS's in the last few years . . . .
>
> 

Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re:[lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Eric Bradshaw]

@Yao:

Thanks for that link, it did go to the correct page, but, still the "time"
is eluding me, is that "1500" UTC zone 1 . . .  ???  How to extrapolate
that to Pacific Time Zone?
F


Change UTC to your time zone: 
http://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx

Eric Bradshaw

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Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:39:08 -0800, Fritz Hudnut wrote:
>@Yao:
>
>Thanks for that link, it did go to the correct page, but, still the
>"time" is eluding me, is that "1500" UTC zone 1 . . .  ???  How to
>extrapolate that to Pacific Time zone???  

In the left upper corner, here's a clock. If you click this clock it
links to a world clock. Here it displays the time and then "UT" from
"UTC", the "C" isn't displayed.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

The clock displays e.g. 21:53, then I take a look at e.g. "Berlin" and
there the time is 22:53, IOW I need to subtract 1 hour, which is true,
since my timezone is +0100.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Fritz Hudnut]

@Yao:

Thanks for that link, it did go to the correct page, but, still the "time"
is eluding me, is that "1500" UTC zone 1 . . .  ???  How to extrapolate
that to Pacific Time zone???

F

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Yao Wei  wrote:

> The correct link is: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22714/
> architecture-discussions/
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 at 04:55 Fritz Hudnut  wrote:
>
>> @wxl:
>>
>> Again asking what time this will be happening?  I tried the link and it
>> said "page doesn't exist" . . . possibly link is busted or the page doesn't
>> exist until in use?
>>
>> F
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Walter Lapchynski 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It should be pointed out that this discussion is not only about PPC but
>> it's also about i386. Since i386 is a major target of Lubuntu, I would
>> advise attendance.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Bryan Quigley <
>> bryan.quig...@canonical.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for the late notice - there is a live discussion scheduled for
>> this Wednesday on this topic for any flavors that want to further the
>> discussion.
>>
>> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-16 11/meeting/22714/architecture-
>> discussions/
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Walter Lapchynski 
>> wrote:
>> > As you can see from the page on [PPC][1], the architecture has only
>> > community support from Ubuntu. Lubuntu has been trying as much as we
>> can to
>> > support this, but the fact of the matter is that we have no developers
>> on
>> > our team that can actually help with PPC bugs.
>> >
>> > The best you can hope for is that kernel developers (mostly, the issue
>> is
>> > with drivers) might have some interest in fixing bugs. However, with
>> only
>> > community support, that's unlikely. Most of the focus on PPC has been
>> on the
>> > server side of things, where graphics just don't come into play.
>> >
>> > My estimation of things is that Lubuntu on PPC mostly works, given a few
>> > caveats. All we need to do to release PPC is for all of the test cases
>> to be
>> > completed successfully (regardless of whether or not there are bugs) and
>> > that marked on the QA tracker for the final testing of each milestone.
>> If we
>> > don't have that done, Canonical will not let us release it.
>> >
>> > PPC was what brought me originally to Lubuntu, so there's a special
>> place
>> > for it in my heart. Having an OS make that old hardware work was very
>> > refreshing and introduced me to the real power and mission of Lubuntu.
>> >
>> > However, I haven't ran PPC in a long, long time. That being said, I'm
>> not of
>> > much help. We rely on the community of users to help out. When I don't
>> see
>> > testing happening in the community, it makes me think that I'm not the
>> only
>> > one that's neglected their PPC machines.
>> >
>> > The reality of the situation is that there has been much talk
>> throughout the
>> > Ubuntu community over the past few years about getting rid of i386. If
>> that
>> > happens, I can't imagine that Canonical keeping PPC. With that in mind,
>> I
>> > think the end of PPC Lubuntu is coming regardless of what our feelings
>> are.
>> >
>> > Furthermore, the Lubuntu Team is a small one and we often lack the
>> capacity
>> > to do the things that we need to do. PPC is just stretching us even
>> thinner,
>> > and into an area few of us really have the experience, knowledge,
>> resources,
>> > or time to deal with.
>> >
>> > That said, I'm inclined to suggest we start the process of removing
>> PPC. We
>> > managed to release an LTS, which is the only version we even bother
>> with PPC
>> > on. All we would need to do is ensure that all the point releases for
>> Trusty
>> > and Xenial get published. That would put us out until about August 2018.
>> >
>> > I think ultimately this will be better for the team. Most importantly,
>> > though, I think it will be better for the PPC users that I fear we can't
>> > really support and who we often leave with a frustrated experience.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> > [1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC
>> > --
>> > @wxl | http://polka.bike
>> > Lubuntu Release Manager & Head of QA
>> > Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact
>> > Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader
>> > Ubuntu Membership Board & LoCo Council Member
>> > Eugene Unix & GNU/Linux User Group Co-Organizer
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lubuntu-devel mailing list
>> > lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com
>> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D
>> 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A
>>
>>
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Re: [lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 12:54:58 -0800, Fritz Hudnut wrote:
>I tried the link and it said "page doesn't exist"

I posted the correct link here:

http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2016-November/106712.html

It was just a "space" between "16" and "11".

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[lubuntu-users] dropping i386/PPC (was: Re: [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC)

[Walter Lapchynski]

It should be pointed out that this discussion is not only about PPC but
it's also about i386. Since i386 is a major target of Lubuntu, I would
advise attendance.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Bryan Quigley 
wrote:

> Sorry for the late notice - there is a live discussion scheduled for
> this Wednesday on this topic for any flavors that want to further the
> discussion.
>
> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-16 11/meeting/22714/architecture-discussions/
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Walter Lapchynski  wrote:
> > As you can see from the page on [PPC][1], the architecture has only
> > community support from Ubuntu. Lubuntu has been trying as much as we can
> to
> > support this, but the fact of the matter is that we have no developers on
> > our team that can actually help with PPC bugs.
> >
> > The best you can hope for is that kernel developers (mostly, the issue is
> > with drivers) might have some interest in fixing bugs. However, with only
> > community support, that's unlikely. Most of the focus on PPC has been on
> the
> > server side of things, where graphics just don't come into play.
> >
> > My estimation of things is that Lubuntu on PPC mostly works, given a few
> > caveats. All we need to do to release PPC is for all of the test cases
> to be
> > completed successfully (regardless of whether or not there are bugs) and
> > that marked on the QA tracker for the final testing of each milestone.
> If we
> > don't have that done, Canonical will not let us release it.
> >
> > PPC was what brought me originally to Lubuntu, so there's a special place
> > for it in my heart. Having an OS make that old hardware work was very
> > refreshing and introduced me to the real power and mission of Lubuntu.
> >
> > However, I haven't ran PPC in a long, long time. That being said, I'm
> not of
> > much help. We rely on the community of users to help out. When I don't
> see
> > testing happening in the community, it makes me think that I'm not the
> only
> > one that's neglected their PPC machines.
> >
> > The reality of the situation is that there has been much talk throughout
> the
> > Ubuntu community over the past few years about getting rid of i386. If
> that
> > happens, I can't imagine that Canonical keeping PPC. With that in mind, I
> > think the end of PPC Lubuntu is coming regardless of what our feelings
> are.
> >
> > Furthermore, the Lubuntu Team is a small one and we often lack the
> capacity
> > to do the things that we need to do. PPC is just stretching us even
> thinner,
> > and into an area few of us really have the experience, knowledge,
> resources,
> > or time to deal with.
> >
> > That said, I'm inclined to suggest we start the process of removing PPC.
> We
> > managed to release an LTS, which is the only version we even bother with
> PPC
> > on. All we would need to do is ensure that all the point releases for
> Trusty
> > and Xenial get published. That would put us out until about August 2018.
> >
> > I think ultimately this will be better for the team. Most importantly,
> > though, I think it will be better for the PPC users that I fear we can't
> > really support and who we often leave with a frustrated experience.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > [1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC
> > --
> > @wxl | http://polka.bike
> > Lubuntu Release Manager & Head of QA
> > Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact
> > Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader
> > Ubuntu Membership Board & LoCo Council Member
> > Eugene Unix & GNU/Linux User Group Co-Organizer
> >
> > --
> > Lubuntu-devel mailing list
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> >
>



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