[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
Dear Bruno: Since this is our area of specialty, we'll try to address your questions from our perspective by directing you to a few videos of lute songs. http://www.youtube.com/user/lutesongs The three songs most recently posted were filmed by our friend Danny Shoskes in an informal setting this past Saturday. The performances were completely live and there has been no adjustment to sound or editing. More will be posted when we have time and bandwidth. Best wishes, Ron Andrico Donna Stewart www.mignarda.com Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 01:04:29 -0300 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LUTE] Lute songs I'd like to ask everybody about the role of the lute when playing with a singer. Which are the aspects we should focus when doing the acompanniment? As the lute is a very soft instrument with little or no dynamics at all, certainly there must be other issues to focus on. I imagine that a good point is to give attention to the articulation in order to make the lute speak instead of sing the lines (the short sustain doesn't allow much singing anyway...). Appreciate coments! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html _ Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ MakeCount --
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
David - Thank you! Ron asked me to weigh in here from a singer's perspective, but you've virtually covered it all. I feel very strongly that the singer/accompanist dynamic has absolutely no place in lute song. We are collaborating to tell a story, and it feels more like singing partsongs (or playing chamber music) than singing a solo. Ron and I always perform sitting side by side, both to convey this feeling to our audiences and because it helps us stay in touch - I can focus on every nuance of touch on the strings, and he does, as you suggest, literally breathe with me. I'm not a lutenist, but the advice to breathe with your own lines in polyphony sounds perfrect. Playing the lute requires an almost incomprehensible level of focus and multitasking, and it's really not reasonable to ask you all to think about yet another thing, but I have to say that Ron's appreciation for the text and poetry makes possible a richer interpretation of both the music and the poetry, since we're less likely to find ourselves arm wrestling over interpretive issues. He often prompts me when I've forgotten the words. Speaking of breathing, Ron and I were both intrigued by a comment Julian Bream made about how playing lute song with Peter Pears opened up a whole new level of understanding of phrasing for him in his solo playing, since so much lute music is derived from vocal part music. There's a clip of this interview available on YouTube, and I'd really recommend it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvRJJ0tqsY. (We've just watched it again...the interview follows a performance of Fine Knacks for Ladies, and we were struck by their absolute togetherness in phrasing and dynamics. Peter Pears certainly is not what most of us would think of as an ideal voice for lute song, but this full blast opera voice somehow never overwhelmed the lute, which bubbled to the surface and navigated the subtle ebbs and flows of the line in perfect tandem.) Ron would add that if you find a singer who doesn't particularly aspire to sing solos - in a small choir, ideally - you won't have to go to the trouble of retraining in the art of blending! Donna Stewart www.mignarda.com I think that is the important thing, teach the singer to listen to the lute so that his/her voice can blend. That will save us from battling against a full blast opera voice (done that, been there). Bob Spencer always advocated for the singer to sit next to the lute, singing slightly in the instrument, so that the sounds would really mix. As for points of attention in performance, no different from a solo piece in that every song, and definitely every style, will ask different things: for the more modern baroque a strong baseline and sonorous harmonic support is needed, for the early 16th century polyphony all attention should go to, you guessed it, playing the polyphony adequately. The Dowland lute songs are like solo pieces - there's an argument to consider these the real Dowland solo pieces anyway - in that we must bring out all the lines as well as the harmony. For al songs: always breathe with the singer (but in polyphony breathe with your! own lines) and keep the rhythm flowing. Don't follow the singer, then you'll be too late, sing with him/her in stead. David _ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
On Wednesday 28 May 2008 06:04, Bruno Correia rattled on the keyboard: I'd like to ask everybody about the role of the lute when playing with a singer. Which are the aspects we should focus when doing the acompanniment? As the lute is a very soft instrument with little or no dynamics at all, Bénigne de Bacilly wrote in his standard vocal tutor that neither harpsichord nor bass viol had the theorbo's grace in accompanying the voice. Such a statement is hard to combine with an instrument without dynamics. Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sautschecks Kleinigkeiten III
A Bagatelle g-moll http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/bagatelle/bagatelle.pdf http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/bagatelle/bagatelle.mp3 for your Perusal and Delectation. Enjoy, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
On May 28, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Bruno Correia wrote: I'd like to ask everybody about the role of the lute when playing with a singer. Which are the aspects we should focus when doing the acompanniment? As the lute is a very soft instrument with little or no dynamics at all, certainly there must be other issues to focus on. I imagine that a good point is to give attention to the articulation in order to make the lute speak instead of sing the lines (the short sustain doesn't allow much singing anyway...). Appreciate coments! Hi Bruno, I think it's important to keep in mind the difficulty for a singer with classical training to adapt to the environment of the lute song. The idea of collaboration is not always immediately obvious. I agree completely with the idea that the two performers should sit next to each other, lute and voice as one instrument. The whole voice-teacher thing of mark down where I breathe! is all very well, but in lute songs it has to work both ways. I once had a singer wave a pencil angrily under my nose in rehearsal then turn away, as if there was someone else in the room, and say oh yes, they always think they can remember when I breathe! Okay, be that as it may, my bad; but my point is that I tried many times to suggest places where the lute parts have to breathe. Unfortunately she had difficulty in seeing my role as more than simply her accompanist. (Actually, I did mark down where she breathed, and we began to make progress after that. ;-) ) I think the most important thing is to know your part thoroughly, and be able to stop anywhere, start anywhere, and be in complete control of what you're doing. Number the bars, and make sure you and the singer agree on bar numbering. Learn the song itself as well as the lute part. Sing along with it as you practice on your own. One hallmark of classically trained singers is much sophistication in their use of language. Take advantage of that: in rehearsal, follow the singer. Go where the singer takes you. Even if they may not know much about singing to a lute, you can be sure that good singers know what they're doing when it comes to language. They have the authority in that. Despite my tongue-in-cheek remarks above, do what you can to accomodate the singer: write down when they breathe!! ;-) Hope that helps. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: For a fistfull of euros ...
I have the full 4-CD set of of these recordings issued by BIS years ago. It was released comfortably before O'Dette finished his complete set for Harmonia Mundi spanning five CDs. Lindberg's are fine recordings and tasteful interpretations. I think they compare favorably to anybody else's also fine efforts. Like O'Dette, Lindberg throws in the orpharion for a few selections. Best, Eugene At 05:50 PM 5/25/2008, LGS-Europe wrote: .. you can buy the complete lute works of the artist formerly known as Dowland (what will be left of the man by the time musicologists are done with Poulton's edition?) played by Jacob Lindberg, at the Kruidvat (www.kruidvat.nl). Perhaps for residents of the Netherlands only? Anyway, for the handfull of Dutch lutenetters a cheap chance to compare Lindberg with POD and Nigel North. Enjoy. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Portuguese Baroque Guitar - mp3 files
Great stuff! Monica - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vihuela [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:55 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Portuguese Baroque Guitar - mp3 files Dear all, I've recorded five pieces from the Coimbra manuscript - they can be found on my www.songoftherose.co.uk site, or just click on the following links for each one. I think these are WONDERFUL pieces and should be more popular. Rogerio Budasz did the main work transcribing these pieces from the original manuscript as part of his doctoral dissertation: *The Five-Course Guitar (Viola) In Portugal and Brazil in the Late Seventeenth and Early Eighteenth Centuries,* 2001. The pieces are notated without time signals and are often a little odd in places, clearly stemming from a tradition of improvisation. I've arranged them as best I could. Canario - http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/mp3/bg/portugal/Canario.mp3 - good enough to rival Sanz's? Almost! Chacara de Abreau - http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/mp3/bg/portugal/Chacara%20de%20Abreau.mp3 - a jacaras Tricotte de Alemanda - http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/mp3/bg/portugal/Tricotte.mp3 - NOT an allemande Meya Danca - http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/mp3/bg/portugal/Meya%20Danca.mp3 Terantela - http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/mp3/bg/portugal/Terantela.mp3 * Terantela* has only four bars of chords and one variation, to which I have added four more. I've enjoyed playing them, and hope you enjoy hearing them. Please don't ask me for scores as I am not sure of the legal implications. They are my arrangements, but Rogerio Budasz did the transcribing. Rob MacKillop PS I will put them on the vihuela/guitar network site soon. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
Most people play on the consonant, not the vowel--play on the vowel. Play polyphony, not chords. Learn the words and make the lute match the rhetoric. dt R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
David, Surely the lute can provide some color nuances to the songs (solos as well of course), but to talk about true dynamics as we find in modern instruments is nonsense. I have many recordings of lute songs, but I don't recall hearing the shades you mention (next time I'll hear them more carefully). Generally, I hear very well the singer, his/her dynamics, the phrasing, delivery of the text and the blending with the lute. But the lute (sound) itself seems to be very far away, even if the singer is not operatic and is sitting on your side. With chords for example, I don't feel so bad because with more notes there is a feeling of fullness going on. But with polyphony, the lute lines are not at the same volume level of the singer. So, it seems that there is a main melody with the singer and other voices in a distance. With a piano that doesn't happen, because the voices are at the same level. We have to be carefull with recordings because anything is possible in terms of blending (just to remember classical guitar and orquestra!), but live is a different thing. This could even be extended to solo lute playing. To listen to a good lute recording is not the same as hearing it live, where there are very few ideal places to play and be heard clearly. On the contrary, the lute is an instrument with infinite nuances in dynamics, granted it's from from ppp to mf, but the subtlety in shading makes up for the lack in absolute volume. A clear attack makes it heard in the piano, given a sensitive singer. And I think that is the important thing, teach the singer to listen to the lute so that his/her voice can blend. That will save us from battling against a full blast opera voice (done that, been there). Bob Spencer always advocated for the singer to sit next to the lute, singing slightly in the instrument, so that the sounds would really mix. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
Taco, We are discussing about the lute not the theorbo, you can't compare a 59 cm renaissance lute with a 90 cm italian theorbo... Actually, isn't because of this that the lute dropped out of favor to acompany songs or to play continuo? Benigne de Bacilly wrote in his standard vocal tutor that neither harpsichord nor bass viol had the theorbo's grace in accompanying the voice. Such a statement is hard to combine with an instrument without dynamics. Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Following up - does one need to play to be a good builder?
On 5/26/08 1:04 AM, Jon Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I may make a suggestion, try buying a cheap Paki or Indian made lute on EBay. Use it to learn what is wrong with it. In effect that is what I did with my flat back, I now know what the lute should be. BTW, Ronn McFarlane played my flat back once, after I'd modified it, and declared it a sweet sounding instrument. I think that might have been a damning with faint praise, but I'll still accept the compliment. When playing a cheap instrument one must accept that the tuning may not hold - and that one must at times accept a bit of discord - but it is better to learn the basics of play before venturing into the construction and finding out that one has made some primary errors. I still can enjoy playing my flat back, but I really anticipate the play of my planned lute. Best, Jon BTW, I'm primarily a harpist and psaltery player, but the lute is a lovely thing and once I make a good one I'll be torn among the instruments. Hi Jon, Thanks for the suggestion. At one time, I did order a cheap southeast asian flat back lute - even had it ordered and all. In the end I cancelled it when I read about the work needed to make one of these even remotely playable. It just seemed to be easier to make one. That said, I will consider it as a possible option as I sit, think, and plan. Ehud To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
Speaking of lute songs, does anyone know where to find a renaissance version of What if a day with tab accompaniment? The director for a program I'm accompanying only has a version from the Reliquary of English song circa 1910 w/piano in e minor (!!). Thanks for any help. From: LGS-Europe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 5/28/2008 6:01 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute songs I forgot the best advice: read Am I too loud? by Gerald Moore. It helps, if only to combat melancholy creeping in after yet another rehearsal with a real singer's ego (been there too many times, doing that for a living...). But seriously, he has a lesson to teach to all would-be accompanists. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Lute songs
Dear Roland, Do you mean What is a day, which is no. 18 in Philip Rosseter's lute song collection, _A Booke of Ayres_ (London, 1601)? Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Roland Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 May 2008 04:26 To: LGS-Europe; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute songs Speaking of lute songs, does anyone know where to find a renaissance version of What if a day with tab accompaniment? The director for a program I'm accompanying only has a version from the Reliquary of English song circa 1910 w/piano in e minor (!!). Thanks for any help. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
