[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
The Lute Society of America has a microfilm of MS D.1.21 that is available to members but the quality is pretty bad. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Stetson Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:03 AM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie Hello, all, While looking for seasonal material, a singer I work with mentioned Blessed Be That Maid Marie, wondering if anyone had made an arrangement for lute?. I admit I'd never heard of it, but an internet search revealed that the music (is) from William Ballet's Lutebook (Trinity College MS D.1.21), but apparently that book has not been made available in facsimile or digitally. Would anyone have the music of this particular song, or a link thereto? Apologies if this has been discussed before, and thanks in advance for any help. Best of wishes for the holiday season, Chris. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Swedish lute songs?
This still appears corrupt and the page I get has warnings from Apache. The links do not work on that page. This link looks like it works for all the parts: http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dnr=294 For some reason the =29 becomes ) in your email. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Jan Johansson Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:21 AM To: 'lute list' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swedish lute songs? Hi, to get to the full set of parts this is the link http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr)4 It was corrupt in my previous mail /Jan On 23 nov 2012 19:13 Daniel F. Heiman [1]heiman.dan...@juno.com wrote: Ed: I am with you -- the link given in the message below does not function for me either. However, if you work through the search function the part does come up. The link for the page I arrived at looks like: [2]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/browsePart.php?Select_Part Select_Dnr)4c ommand=restart Just in case that gets mangled in transmission through the list server, here is a link to the link: [3]http://bit.ly/U2hxmx Greetings, Daniel -Original Message- From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Durbrow Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 03:45 To: lute list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swedish lute songs? I really am curious to see the parts but I've tried several times and can't figure out how to access them. On Nov 22, 2012, at 7:05 PM, Jan Johansson [5]j...@horseforce.se wrote: Hi therobo b.c. fans, Andreas Schlegel was kind enough to direct me to the correct Buxtehude piece, Fuerchtet euch nicht, where we have both the basso continuo parts and a tiorba part (labeled th) written at the end of the 17th century probably by one of the lute players of the Hofkapelle in Stockholm. It can perhaps be interesting to compare the figured bc with the theorbo implementation. Here it is: [6]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr) 4 Regards /Jan -- To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [8]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [9]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 2. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/browsePart.php?Select_PartSelect_Dnr)4c 3. http://bit.ly/U2hxmx 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:j...@horseforce.se 6. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 9. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
This is an interesting question, musicologically, and this is my opinion--everyone is free to disagree! Evidence: The evidence is that you either pluck the notes at the same time, or out of order. AFAIK, there are no other choices. First off, the derivation of the lute is from the viola, or vihuela (you may use your own generic term here) played with a bow or quill. With a bow or quill, you must roll. Yes, you can have a flat bridge, but you won't get far without being able to change strings once in a while. So the lute starts out rolled. You could maybe argue that no one ever played chords, but then the rolling is moot, or mute. Keyboard evidence: as far the surviving evidence being out of regulation, and all harpsichords made now based on historical models being out of regulation, I suppose that is a possibility, but one that is unlikely to change. This includes all organs as well, since the chiff is regulated and sounds at a different time than the fundamental--exactly like the octave string on a lute, or the four foot on a harpsichord. The organ pedals of course sound either rolled or not rolled depending on where you are sitting, and there is no way to line up the pedals so they are unrolled--can't be done. So every Sunday, rolled chords in church. One can say they are all wrong, but that would be considered pretty radical. It may be true, of course, I think for sure the rolling built in to the harpsichords can be pretty extreme. But it sounds very odd when you don't stagger the jacks--I've tried it, others have as well. And no one makes them that way because it doesn't sound right. However, the basic model is one in which we have to show that people did not roll the chords, since it is difficult to do so, and we know that the lute started out rolled. Analysis of high speed video shows that people almost always roll the chords, even if they try not to, and there is also the possibility that one might think one is not rolling when in fact one is rolling. So the burden of proof is to show that people didn't, which is difficult because people did--after all, it is impossible to play a chord with a quill while not rolling. There is a great deal more evidence in the form of iconography, because if you look at stop frames of the lute plucking motion of different players you will see the no roll has the same place setup as roll but a different release profile (except for the two-fingered snap pluck described in treatises). If you look at the release profile, you will see that fingers form a line, and you rarely see this sort of line in iconography. Instead you often see the release points splayed, just as in a roll. Artistic license? Maybe, but I think not--too much variance; too many examples. Try it for yourself; see where the fingers naturally wind up each way. Speaking of the snap pluck, where in a six or seven note chord the index finger (or other finger) snaps the top three or four course and the thumb snaps the lower two or three courses, these chords are of course rolled from both ends as we used to say in the '60s. Just to be clear: these chords are rolled in two directs because only two fingers are used, just like a quill brushing sequentially over strings. So rolling is historical, documented, impossible to avoid, shows up in other instruments, is notated and appears to be quite common in iconography. That's a lot of evidence. But historical evidence is subject to interpretation, so you can go through these and interpret them differently. That's the beauty of Early Music--there's many opinions on the source material. Why do harps have to roll? Because it sounds good, of course, but there is a reason: the strings range farther than the span of the hand--just like a player with small hands has to roll tenths or even octaves on the keyboard. Drums rolled, snares rolled, harps rolled, keyboards rolled, citterns rolled, guitars rolled, violins, gambas and cellos rolled (they have too, actually). But the lutes were the lone holdout? Where is the evidence that people did NOT roll? That's the question here, since the lute comes from the quill, and unless you are Edward Scissorhands, there is only one way to quill: sequentially. dt --- On Fri, 11/23/12, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, November 23, 2012, 4:29 AM You write that 'A rolled chord is an arpeggio, literally, like a harp, and these go back to the Early Renaissance. ' - what's your evidence for this? Further, what do you mean by this ' A careful analysis of harpsichord registration indicates that in double manual instruments the plucks were
[LUTE] Re: Swedish lute songs?
Hi again, for some reason the link gets incorrect in the mail again, it looks OK when I send it. The final part should look like Select_Dnr)4 (e.g. Select_Dnrequalsign294) Is there any reason that the list machine does not like equalsign? /Jan On 23 nov 2012 19:20 Jan Johansson [1]j...@horseforce.se wrote: Hi, to get to the full set of parts this is the link [2]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr) 4 It was corrupt in my previous mail /Jan On 23 nov 2012 19:13 Daniel F. Heiman [1]heiman.dan...@juno.com wrote: Ed: I am with you -- the link given in the message below does not function for me either. However, if you work through the search function the part does come up. The link for the page I arrived at looks like: [2]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/browsePart.php?Select_Part Select_Dnr)4c ommand=restart Just in case that gets mangled in transmission through the list server, here is a link to the link: [3]http://bit.ly/U2hxmx Greetings, Daniel -Original Message- From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Durbrow Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 03:45 To: lute list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swedish lute songs? I really am curious to see the parts but I've tried several times and can't figure out how to access them. On Nov 22, 2012, at 7:05 PM, Jan Johansson [5]j...@horseforce.se wrote: Hi therobo b.c. fans, Andreas Schlegel was kind enough to direct me to the correct Buxtehude piece, Fuerchtet euch nicht, where we have both the basso continuo parts and a tiorba part (labeled th) written at the end of the 17th century probably by one of the lute players of the Hofkapelle in Stockholm. It can perhaps be interesting to compare the figured bc with the theorbo implementation. Here it is: [6]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr) 4 Regards /Jan -- To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [8]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [9]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 2. [3]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/browsePart.php?Select_PartSelect_D nr)4c 3. [4]http://bit.ly/U2hxmx 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:j...@horseforce.se 6. [5]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr 7. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. [7]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 9. [8]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:j...@horseforce.se 2. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr 3. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/browsePart.php?Select_PartSelect_Dnr 4. http://bit.ly/U2hxmx 5. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource1.php?Select_Dnr 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 8. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
