[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Vallet psalms]
Dear Arthur again,
Sorry, my mistake, the ms; IS in the Quellenlist by Goy and Schlegel as :
#31-US-R 186
ROCHESTER, Sibley music library (US-R), Vault M 140 V 186 S, 1640 ca
Not a lute UFO after all ;-) !
Best wishes,
Jenan-Maie
--
Dear Jean-Marie and Matthias,
There's not much that I can add.The manuscript is bound with Livre
1 and Livre 2 of Nicolas Vallet *Secret des Muses* (Amsterdam 1618,
1619), and *[21] Psalmen Davids* (1619), second editions made from
plates of the first editions. Purchased 1933 from the great Berlin
music antiquarian Leo Liepmannssohn, perhaps (I'm not certain) at the
auction of the Werner Wolffheim collection.* The Ms seems to be from
the Vallet circle, since livre 2 contains concordances: Ballet (p.
1)=Ms p. 36a and La Vallette (p. 16)=Ms p. 53 (Valette). I suspect
that a search for concordances might bring forth pieces in **Haslemere
II B 18 and Prague IV G 18.
*Head librarian Barbara Duncan attended the auction with lots of
money. Sibley's father was a millionaire founder of Western Union!
**Formerly in the library of Brahms' friend and biographer Max Kalbeck
(Vienna). It was never in the Prussian State Library (*pace*
Boetticher).
Arthur
- Original Message -
From: Jean-Marie Poirier [1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
To: Arthur Ness [2]arthurjn...@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS
Valet psalms]
Thank you so much Arthur for these new links ! The second one (XXI
Pseaulmes) is very circumstancial with the Vallet anniversay in Utrecht
in the next few days ;-) !
The first link (Lute MS) is quite a mine of interesting pieces in
accords nouveaux. Do you have more information about this particular
manuscript ?
Thank you and best wishes,
Jean-Marie
--
- Original Message -
From: Mathias Roesel [3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
To: 'Arthur Ness' [4]arthurjn...@verizon.net; 'Lute List'
[5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; 'Baroque Lute List'
[6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:24 PM
Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS
Valet psalms]
Great, thank you so much, Arthur! That Lute music, in tablature on
first glance is news to me. Is there somewhere more information to be
found about it?
Mathias
-Original Message-
From: [7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
On Behalf Of
Arthur Ness
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:26 PM
To: Lute List; Baroque Lute List
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS
Valet
psalms]
- Original Message -
From: [8]nore...@ur.rochester.edu
To: [9]arthurjn...@verizon.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:01 AM
Subject: New UR Research Publications for dates: 08/19/2013 -
08/20/2013
New publications are available in the UR Research collections you
have
subscribed to
New publications in Musical Scores: 2
Publication Name: [Lute music, in tablature].
URL:
[10]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView
.action?institutiona
lItemId'288versionNumber=1
Publication Name: XXI [i.e. Vingt-et-un] Pseaumes de David,
Accommode's pour
chanter jouer du Luth ensemble. Par Nicolas Valet.
URL:
[11]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView
.action?institutiona
lItemId'287versionNumber=1
Composer:Vallet, Nicolas (1583 - 1642)
Enjoy!
Questions/problems? let us know: [12]urresearch-h...@rochester.edu
To get on or off this list see list information at
[13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
mhtml:{6BC07261-E37E-4371-9ABD-161EF0624E2C}mid://0132/!x-usc:mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
2.
mhtml:{6BC07261-E37E-4371-9ABD-161EF0624E2C}mid://0132/!x-usc:mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net
3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
4. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net
5. mailto:l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:nore...@ur.rochester.edu
9. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net
10.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutiona
11.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutiona
12. mailto:urresearch-h...@rochester.edu
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Vallet psalms]
cher Jean-Marie contrairement à ce que tu dis, ce manuscrit est dans la liste d'Andreas et François-Pierre sous le sigle US 186, je crois Amicalement Jean-François Christoflour To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Vallet psalms]
I meant to mention the Goy/Schlegel list. It's also in Boetticher's RISM volume with a rather poor description. The Vallet prints seem to be unknown to Souris in the modern edition of Vallet, rev. Goy. But the Ms. is cited. So it's n ot entirely unknown. ajn - Original Message - From: Jean-Marie Poirier [1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr To: Arthur Ness [2]arthurjn...@verizon.net; Mathias Roesel [3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de; 'Lute List' [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; 'Baroque Lute List' [5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:28 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Vallet psalms] Dear Arthur again, Sorry, my mistake, the ms; IS in the Quellenlist by Goy and Schlegel as : #31-US-R 186 ROCHESTER, Sibley music library (US-R), Vault M 140 V 186 S, 1640 ca Not a lute UFO after all ;-) ! Best wishes, Jenan-Maie -- Dear Jean-Marie and Matthias, There's not much that I can add.The manuscript is bound with Livre 1 and Livre 2 of Nicolas Vallet *Secret des Muses* (Amsterdam 1618, 1619), and *[21] Psalmen Davids* (1619), second editions made from plates of the first editions. Purchased 1933 from the great Berlin music antiquarian Leo Liepmannssohn, perhaps (I'm not certain) at the auction of the Werner Wolffheim collection.* The Ms seems to be from the Vallet circle, since livre 2 contains concordances: Ballet (p. 1)=Ms p. 36a and La Vallette (p. 16)=Ms p. 53 (Valette). I suspect that a search for concordances might bring forth pieces in **Haslemere II B 18 and Prague IV G 18. *Head librarian Barbara Duncan attended the auction with lots of money. Sibley's father was a millionaire founder of Western Union! **Formerly in the library of Brahms' friend and biographer Max Kalbeck (Vienna). It was never in the Prussian State Library (*pace* Boetticher). Arthur - Original Message - From: Jean-Marie Poirier [1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr To: Arthur Ness [2]arthurjn...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Valet psalms] Thank you so much Arthur for these new links ! The second one (XXI Pseaulmes) is very circumstancial with the Vallet anniversay in Utrecht in the next few days ;-) ! The first link (Lute MS) is quite a mine of interesting pieces in accords nouveaux. Do you have more information about this particular manuscript ? Thank you and best wishes, Jean-Marie -- - Original Message - From: Mathias Roesel [3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de To: 'Arthur Ness' [4]arthurjn...@verizon.net; 'Lute List' [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; 'Baroque Lute List' [6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:24 PM Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Valet psalms] Great, thank you so much, Arthur! That Lute music, in tablature on first glance is news to me. Is there somewhere more information to be found about it? Mathias -Original Message- From: [7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Arthur Ness Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:26 PM To: Lute List; Baroque Lute List Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New UR Research Publications [Lute MS Valet psalms] - Original Message - From: [8]nore...@ur.rochester.edu To: [9]arthurjn...@verizon.net Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:01 AM Subject: New UR Research Publications for dates: 08/19/2013 - 08/20/2013 New publications are available in the UR Research collections you have subscribed to New publications in Musical Scores: 2 Publication Name: [Lute music, in tablature]. URL: [10]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView .action?institutiona lItemId'288versionNumber=1 Publication Name: XXI [i.e. Vingt-et-un] Pseaumes de David, Accommode's pour chanter jouer du Luth ensemble. Par Nicolas Valet. URL: [11]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView .action?institutiona lItemId'287versionNumber=1 Composer:Vallet, Nicolas (1583 - 1642) Enjoy! Questions/problems? let us know: [12]urresearch-h...@rochester.edu
[LUTE] Re: Time to work on how we look?
I am late getting onto this thread, so apologies if this has been covered before. Stringed instruments are at a disadvantage to most others for the player to think about their expression throughout their playing. They have to think about the way they hold the instrument, their hand-position, chord-shapes, fingering and reaching difficuly notes and allowing other notes behind the fingers to be played. Then of course, there is thought going into how much pressure is applied to the strings in order gain those notes. Also the left hand has a fair amount of thought going into which strings to play and the amount of plucking to apply on each string. Here, it takes both hands to create each note! Much of this is done subconciously, but must occupy a fair amount of brain-space, but must be considered essential to the end result. The player can express pleasure in the piece they are playing, either of success that the playing is skillfil, or from the emotion the piece portrays. They can rarely look away from their instrument for fear of a distraction. Unlike a keyboard, which is free-standing and the notes are already in-built and, set out in one lateral straight line (not six or seven!) The fingers are worked laterally to touch those ready-made notes, applying just right pressure to express the timbre required. Look how much memory I have freed-up! I'm not saying it is any easier to play a keyboard because it is uses all ten digits to enable the playing of ten notes from two cleffs, but how else could artists like Liberace look straight into the camera or at the audience with a big smile? :) Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: 20 August 2013 19:37 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Time to work on how we look? On 08/20/2013 01:22 AM, William Samson wrote: Interesting new study showing that visual cues are more important that the sound of a performance in how people judge it: There must be some truth to it. For instance, I find it difficult to watch this performer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d44jKuw3Nlw The unwarranted and discomforting 'passion' in his face is enough to usurp any beauty I might have otherwise found in his music. One of the reasons why the lute and other string instruments were considered superior to, say, wind instruments in the 17th and 18th centuries was that lute players weren't forced to contort their faces (as is someone who blows into a flute). Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Time to work on how we look?
Oddly enough, classical musicians seem to be better at this than early music people - who often appear in ill-assorted outfits, hippies that time forgot, or just plain scruffy. Look at orchestral conductors for example - Is there any highly regarded conductor who doesn't have floppy, bouncy hair? It's one of the tools of the trade. Likewise female 'cellists - The long, crinkly Pre-Raphaelite hair, preferably hanging over the face, is what the audience expects. Some early music outfits are, of course, appropriately stylish - but many don't quite cut the mustard even though their musical performance is impeccable. I remember, too, that classical guitarists always wore tails to perform - Segovia, Bream, Yepes - but then John Williams broke the mould with his fancy shirts and Chelsea boots, about 50 years ago. Interesting at the time, but somehow took away from the sense of occasion. As for facial expressions - They're part of the story but by no means the whole thing. Musicians need to know their audience, respect them and entertain them. Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Liuto forte
Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte instruments? -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Double wide spacing for polyphony
Over the years I have tried out a number of ideas for a model of lute that is good for polyphony. Specifically, I wanted something for both playing and recording that reveals the maximum separation in the individual polyphonic parts, with tone and transparency. What I have now is a 65cm C36 lute copy, with shaded yew, and double wide spacing. The space is larger between the pairs of strings, and each pair is wider between the unisons and octaves. It does result in a more transparent sound for polyphony. However, not recommended for smaller hands. If you play the theorbo, it will seem small anyway. Actually, the transparency is also good for ricercars, even though the music is not as complex, but where you really hear the difference is in the multipart compositions, and also lute songs. The width takes some getting used to, and I will also try a model with the same spacing and a smaller mensur, when I get around to it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/42226428@N03/sets/72157635192655310/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well. __ From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte instruments? -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hindemith lute concerto
No new light on this elusive lute concerto, but there was a dark, Kurt Weill-meets-Peter Schickele side to Hindemith that I never knew existed. NY Times article about his pre-war send-up caricatures of Wagner. (And the famous picture of Joe the Collegium.) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/arts/music/hindemith-master-and-prankster-at-weill-recital-hall.html Dan On 8/20/2013 12:05 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: Shouldn't someone really be looking into this? Hindemith is an important enough 20th century composer that surely some professional ensemble (probably not the Berlin Philharmonic) could be convinced to make the the premiere recording/performance of a new concerto of his. ...if there is one. I believe this subtopic branched from the thread about promoting broader awareness of the lute. Well, here's a way to do that. ...if it is. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com On Sat, 8/17/13, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hindemith lute concerto To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, August 17, 2013, 8:05 PM On Aug 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Yes, there was a concerto for Iadone. This seems like a more definitive statement than the one you posted six years ago. Have you acquired new information since? Or am I reading too much into it On August 13, 2007, David Tayler wrote: there may be anecdotal evidence for a more elaborate concerto as Joseph Iadone several times described playing a lute concerto to me back in the late 60s, early 70s. Iadone was of course heavily involved in Hindemith's Collegium at Yale. From the description, it seems more likely that this piece was either an arrangement or a piece written for Hindemith's students, possibly a reworking of the material for one of the other concertos. But that is conjecture; I don't have my notes from that time, his wife might know. There are probably some Hindemith works still out there. I never pursued looking for the piece, because Iadone always commented about how the lute was completely drowned out by the orchestra, although I suppose modern recording techniques could fix that in a jiffy. His wife might know. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
Don't own one but have borrowed and gigged on. Funny sound, like a Steinway classical guitar, but really responsive and loud. I think there is a place for them in this world. Sent from my Ouija board On Aug 22, 2013, at 6:05 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well. __ From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte instruments? -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
There are rather poorly designed from the standpoint of visual aesthetics. maybe with the exception of theorbo forte. The swan neck forte is a particularly funny looking contraption. RT On 8/22/2013 6:30 PM, John Lenti wrote: Don't own one but have borrowed and gigged on. Funny sound, like a Steinway classical guitar, but really responsive and loud. I think there is a place for them in this world. Sent from my Ouija board On Aug 22, 2013, at 6:05 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well. __ From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte instruments? -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
But, do they sound lute like? The samples feature guitarrists playing with nails and single strings... 2013/8/22 [1]r.turov...@gmail.com [2]r.turov...@gmail.com There are rather poorly designed from the standpoint of visual aesthetics. maybe with the exception of theorbo forte. The swan neck forte is a particularly funny looking contraption. RT On 8/22/2013 6:30 PM, John Lenti wrote: Don't own one but have borrowed and gigged on. Funny sound, like a Steinway classical guitar, but really responsive and loud. I think there is a place for them in this world. Sent from my Ouija board On Aug 22, 2013, at 6:05 PM, David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well. __ From: Bruno Correia [4]bruno.l...@gmail.com To: List LUTELIST [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte instruments? -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net 4. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hindemith lute concerto
Thanks for that Dan. Yet, another reason to like Hindemith. This gets funnier as it goes on, but they play to well in tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrV1DiQznHk On Aug 23, 2013, at 7:08 AM, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net wrote: No new light on this elusive lute concerto, but there was a dark, Kurt Weill-meets-Peter Schickele side to Hindemith that I never knew existed. NY Times article about his pre-war send-up caricatures of Wagner. (And the famous picture of Joe the Collegium.) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/arts/music/hindemith-master-and-prankster-at-weill-recital-hall.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hindemith lute concerto
Wonderful stuff, but it will sound like mostly gibberish if you're not familiar enough with the original Flying Dutchperson overture to expect the real thing. On Aug 22, 2013, at 8:57 PM, Ed Durbrow edurb...@gmail.com wrote: This gets funnier as it goes on, but they play to well in tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrV1DiQznHk -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
