[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Andreas Nachtsheim]

Hello all

the name of the Japanese brand is 'Seaguar' (made by Kureha) and they produce 
lots of different carbon fishing line. I made real good experiences with their 
'orange line' of Fluorocarbon line - this goes up to .91, but the thicker ones 
(more than .52) are not easy to get in Europe. Their black label called 'Grand 
Max' is also very good (up to .52)
Other brands (available in different diameters) I use are 'Gamakatsu G-Line' or 
'Stroft'

Andreas



> Am 30.08.2017 um 01:49 schrieb Edward Martin :
> 
>   Very interesting indeed.   Among the very first users of carbon strings
>   is Toyohiko Satoh, and the original company was called I think Seagar,
>   or something like that.   They are a Japanese manufacturer of fishing
>   line.   So, all who use carbon are using fishing line.
>   ed
> 
>   On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Tristan von Neumann
>   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi George!
> Thanks for sharing your experience! I was exactly looking for that
> answer, but no one had attempted full stringing on a Renaissance
> lute and I forgot.
> What would you use for a 62cm Renaissance Lute 7c on G=415 or 432
> Hz?
> I'd be interested in a list and manufacturers, preferably those
> available in Europe.
> I thought monofilaments were thinner, the chanterelle was like .33mm
> from Pyramid Strings. That could be a little hard on the holes.
> I also don't want to damage my lute by overstringing it...
> Thanks for the hint!
> 
>   Am 29.08.2017 um 14:25 schrieb George Arndt:
> 
>   Hello fellow lute players:
>   I have been using salt water monofilament fishing line on my lutes
>   for
>   the past three years with satisfactory results. The only exception
>   being the 7th course on Renaissance lutes and the diapasons on my
>   Baroque lute that are wound with metal. I matched the diameter and
>   length of the original strings with fishing line. If a string was
>   easily broken I use a larger diameter to replace it. If peg
>   friction
>   was a inadequate, I decrease string diameter and replace that
>   string.
>   If a string slapped the fingerboard I used a larger diameter when
>   I replace it.   One nice advantage is mono-filament strings may be
>   pigmented and this helped me as I was learning to play. After three
>   years I am satisfied with the result. It cost $120 for a lifetime
>   supply of strings for my seven lutes.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Edward Martin]

   Very interesting indeed.   Among the very first users of carbon strings
   is Toyohiko Satoh, and the original company was called I think Seagar,
   or something like that.   They are a Japanese manufacturer of fishing
   line.   So, all who use carbon are using fishing line.
   ed

   On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Hi George!
 Thanks for sharing your experience! I was exactly looking for that
 answer, but no one had attempted full stringing on a Renaissance
 lute and I forgot.
 What would you use for a 62cm Renaissance Lute 7c on G=415 or 432
 Hz?
 I'd be interested in a list and manufacturers, preferably those
 available in Europe.
 I thought monofilaments were thinner, the chanterelle was like .33mm
 from Pyramid Strings. That could be a little hard on the holes.
 I also don't want to damage my lute by overstringing it...
 Thanks for the hint!

   Am 29.08.2017 um 14:25 schrieb George Arndt:

   Hello fellow lute players:
   I have been using salt water monofilament fishing line on my lutes
   for
   the past three years with satisfactory results. The only exception
   being the 7th course on Renaissance lutes and the diapasons on my
   Baroque lute that are wound with metal. I matched the diameter and
   length of the original strings with fishing line. If a string was
   easily broken I use a larger diameter to replace it. If peg
   friction
   was a inadequate, I decrease string diameter and replace that
   string.
   If a string slapped the fingerboard I used a larger diameter when
   I replace it.   One nice advantage is mono-filament strings may be
   pigmented and this helped me as I was learning to play. After three
   years I am satisfied with the result. It cost $120 for a lifetime
   supply of strings for my seven lutes.
   Thanks for the opportunity to add my comments.
   George
 
   __
   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on behalf
   of Matthew Daillie <[4]dail...@club-internet.fr>
   Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 3:01 AM
   To: Dan Winheld
   Cc: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings
   Unfortunately there have been serious issues with the new loaded
   nylgut
   strings.
   Availability has been erratic ( I believe that there have only been
   two
   batches so far, the second stiffer than the first) with promises of
   delivery of certain references delayed by several months.
   Some gauges break without warning between the nut and the peg,
   perhaps
   due to the fact that the surface is slightly rough and does not
   fare
   well on the passage in the grove over the nut.
   Strings are often false, especially when being stopped going up the
   fingerboard but also when used as diapasons; their inherent
   stretchiness gives them great amplitude so when they are plucked
   they
   can not only hit against the fingerboard but also against the
   string of
   a neighbouring course!
   I am sorry to be so negative regarding these strings. I had very
   high
   hopes and if Mimmo manages to get the formula right and overcome
   production issues, then they will probably become a lot of players'
   number one choice but we are certainly not there yet. Loaded nylgut
   strings are not inexpensive and it is frustrating to spend
   considerable
   sums of money before being forced to conclude that they are still
   at
   the experimental stage and that we are acting as guinea pigs.
   I use PVF strings on the 5th courses of renaissance lutes and as
   diapasons on theorbos. They work well and are incredibly long
   lasting.
   I have seen and heard them used very successfully on 6th, 7th and
   8th
   courses of renaissance lutes. Tying them around the bridge is
   tricky
   (some luthiers such as Martin Shepherd suggest thinning the ends).
   I
   have no experience of using them on baroque lutes but I would have
   thought that the diameters for the lower courses would have been
   prohibitive.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Aug 29, 2017, at 1:26, Dan Winheld <[5]dwinh...@lmi.net>
   wrote:
   >
   > A question for those of you who have tried, used, and been
   satisfied
   with the Savarez KF (originally for harp) bass strings- the gut
   like
   one starting at .90 or .95 mm thickness (losing memory here) and
   have
   also tried Mimmo Peruffo's new basses- How do they compare? I am
   mostly
   quite happy with the Savarez KF- VERY satisfied with the long
   single
   basses on my archlute-   but on my 10 course & 13 course bass rider
   style Baroque lute the very lowest courses could use a little help;
  

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Tristan von Neumann]

Hi George!

Thanks for sharing your experience! I was exactly looking for that 
answer, but no one had attempted full stringing on a Renaissance lute 
and I forgot.

What would you use for a 62cm Renaissance Lute 7c on G=415 or 432 Hz?
I'd be interested in a list and manufacturers, preferably those 
available in Europe.


I thought monofilaments were thinner, the chanterelle was like .33mm 
from Pyramid Strings. That could be a little hard on the holes.

I also don't want to damage my lute by overstringing it...

Thanks for the hint!


Am 29.08.2017 um 14:25 schrieb George Arndt:

Hello fellow lute players:

I have been using salt water monofilament fishing line on my lutes for
the past three years with satisfactory results. The only exception
being the 7th course on Renaissance lutes and the diapasons on my
Baroque lute that are wound with metal. I matched the diameter and
length of the original strings with fishing line. If a string was
easily broken I use a larger diameter to replace it. If peg friction
was a inadequate, I decrease string diameter and replace that string.
If a string slapped the fingerboard I used a larger diameter when
I replace it.  One nice advantage is mono-filament strings may be
pigmented and this helped me as I was learning to play. After three
years I am satisfied with the result. It cost $120 for a lifetime
supply of strings for my seven lutes.

Thanks for the opportunity to add my comments.

George
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
of Matthew Daillie 
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 3:01 AM
To: Dan Winheld
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

Unfortunately there have been serious issues with the new loaded nylgut
strings.
Availability has been erratic ( I believe that there have only been two
batches so far, the second stiffer than the first) with promises of
delivery of certain references delayed by several months.
Some gauges break without warning between the nut and the peg, perhaps
due to the fact that the surface is slightly rough and does not fare
well on the passage in the grove over the nut.
Strings are often false, especially when being stopped going up the
fingerboard but also when used as diapasons; their inherent
stretchiness gives them great amplitude so when they are plucked they
can not only hit against the fingerboard but also against the string of
a neighbouring course!
I am sorry to be so negative regarding these strings. I had very high
hopes and if Mimmo manages to get the formula right and overcome
production issues, then they will probably become a lot of players'
number one choice but we are certainly not there yet. Loaded nylgut
strings are not inexpensive and it is frustrating to spend considerable
sums of money before being forced to conclude that they are still at
the experimental stage and that we are acting as guinea pigs.
I use PVF strings on the 5th courses of renaissance lutes and as
diapasons on theorbos. They work well and are incredibly long lasting.
I have seen and heard them used very successfully on 6th, 7th and 8th
courses of renaissance lutes. Tying them around the bridge is tricky
(some luthiers such as Martin Shepherd suggest thinning the ends). I
have no experience of using them on baroque lutes but I would have
thought that the diameters for the lower courses would have been
prohibitive.
Best,
Matthew
> On Aug 29, 2017, at 1:26, Dan Winheld  wrote:
>
> A question for those of you who have tried, used, and been satisfied
with the Savarez KF (originally for harp) bass strings- the gut like
one starting at .90 or .95 mm thickness (losing memory here) and have
also tried Mimmo Peruffo's new basses- How do they compare? I am mostly
quite happy with the Savarez KF- VERY satisfied with the long single
basses on my archlute-  but on my 10 course & 13 course bass rider
style Baroque lute the very lowest courses could use a little help; but
if I change them I would want to go all the way to the 6th course.
>
> One draw back to the KF is the stiffness, they can be very annoying
to wrestle through and around the bridge holes, worse as they get
thicker. I have heard that Peruffo's strings were actually too flexible
at first and that he had to "dial them back" a bit so that they would
not fret flat going up the fingerboard. Very counter intuitive to me
after years of thick basses fretting sharp!
>
> Thanks for any information.Dan
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[2]Lute Mail 

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Dieter Schmidt]

   I normally use KF strings on the swan neck lute and copper wound gut
   strings (Kürschner) on the short lutes.
   The other day I had to replace one of the copper gut strings using a
   KF. This allowed me to compare the sustain (covering all other strings)
   - there was no difference. Comparing the sound I note the copper gut
   strings sound much more "black" compared to the KF. Having no
   comparation with "real heavy gut strings" to me the copper gut basses
   sound better.

   Best
   Dieter

   Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. August 2017 um 14:25 Uhr
   Von: "George Arndt" 
   An: "Matthew Daillie" , "Dan Winheld"
   
   Cc: "lutelist Net" 
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings
   Hello fellow lute players:
   I have been using salt water monofilament fishing line on my lutes for
   the past three years with satisfactory results. The only exception
   being the 7th course on Renaissance lutes and the diapasons on my
   Baroque lute that are wound with metal. I matched the diameter and
   length of the original strings with fishing line. If a string was
   easily broken I use a larger diameter to replace it. If peg friction
   was a inadequate, I decrease string diameter and replace that string.
   If a string slapped the fingerboard I used a larger diameter when
   I replace it. One nice advantage is mono-filament strings may be
   pigmented and this helped me as I was learning to play. After three
   years I am satisfied with the result. It cost $120 for a lifetime
   supply of strings for my seven lutes.
   Thanks for the opportunity to add my comments.
   George
   __
   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Matthew Daillie 
   Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 3:01 AM
   To: Dan Winheld
   Cc: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings
   Unfortunately there have been serious issues with the new loaded nylgut
   strings.
   Availability has been erratic ( I believe that there have only been two
   batches so far, the second stiffer than the first) with promises of
   delivery of certain references delayed by several months.
   Some gauges break without warning between the nut and the peg, perhaps
   due to the fact that the surface is slightly rough and does not fare
   well on the passage in the grove over the nut.
   Strings are often false, especially when being stopped going up the
   fingerboard but also when used as diapasons; their inherent
   stretchiness gives them great amplitude so when they are plucked they
   can not only hit against the fingerboard but also against the string of
   a neighbouring course!
   I am sorry to be so negative regarding these strings. I had very high
   hopes and if Mimmo manages to get the formula right and overcome
   production issues, then they will probably become a lot of players'
   number one choice but we are certainly not there yet. Loaded nylgut
   strings are not inexpensive and it is frustrating to spend considerable
   sums of money before being forced to conclude that they are still at
   the experimental stage and that we are acting as guinea pigs.
   I use PVF strings on the 5th courses of renaissance lutes and as
   diapasons on theorbos. They work well and are incredibly long lasting.
   I have seen and heard them used very successfully on 6th, 7th and 8th
   courses of renaissance lutes. Tying them around the bridge is tricky
   (some luthiers such as Martin Shepherd suggest thinning the ends). I
   have no experience of using them on baroque lutes but I would have
   thought that the diameters for the lower courses would have been
   prohibitive.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Aug 29, 2017, at 1:26, Dan Winheld  wrote:
   >
   > A question for those of you who have tried, used, and been satisfied
   with the Savarez KF (originally for harp) bass strings- the gut like
   one starting at .90 or .95 mm thickness (losing memory here) and have
   also tried Mimmo Peruffo's new basses- How do they compare? I am mostly
   quite happy with the Savarez KF- VERY satisfied with the long single
   basses on my archlute- but on my 10 course & 13 course bass rider
   style Baroque lute the very lowest courses could use a little help; but
   if I change them I would want to go all the way to the 6th course.
   >
   > One draw back to the KF is the stiffness, they can be very annoying
   to wrestle through and around the bridge holes, worse as they get
   thicker. I have heard that Peruffo's strings were actually too flexible
   at first and that he had to "dial them back" a bit so that they would
   not fret flat going up the fingerboard. Very counter intuitive to me
   after years of thick basses fretting sharp!
   >
   > Thanks for any information. Dan
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on 

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Dan Winheld]

   George-
   Very interesting what different people have come up with. So you are
   able to get down pretty "deep" in the bass with fishing line? Quite
   intriguing! Can you tell us what material, diameter and (if you've
   figured it out) the tension of these strings? Only thing about your set
   up that doesn't compute for me is wound strings on extended peg box
   diapasons- I would think the two would be mutually exclusive-.
Back in the late 1970's when I got my first "real" lute I went nuts
   trying to get surgical gut and VERY stiff harp gut (not even simple
   high twist in that far-off "Mediaeval" era!) and had bad to disastrous
   results- esp. anything lower than the 4th course. Kept trying anyway.
   Even gave a few deplorable performances.
   Thanks for the input!
   Dan
   On 8/29/2017 5:25 AM, George Arndt wrote:

   Hello fellow lute players:

   I have been using salt water monofilament fishing line on my lutes for
   the past three years with satisfactory results. The only exception
   being the 7th course on Renaissance lutes and the diapasons on my
   Baroque lute that are wound with metal. I matched the diameter and
   length of the original strings with fishing line. If a string was
   easily broken I use a larger diameter to replace it. If peg friction
   was a inadequate, I decrease string diameter and replace that string.
   If a string slapped the fingerboard I used a larger diameter when
   I replace it.  One nice advantage is mono-filament strings may be
   pigmented and this helped me as I was learning to play. After three
   years I am satisfied with the result. It cost $120 for a lifetime
   supply of strings for my seven lutes.

   Thanks for the opportunity to add my comments.

   George
 __

   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2] on
   behalf of Matthew Daillie [3]
   Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 3:01 AM
   To: Dan Winheld
   Cc: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

   Unfortunately there have been serious issues with the new loaded nylgut
   strings.
   Availability has been erratic ( I believe that there have only been two
   batches so far, the second stiffer than the first) with promises of
   delivery of certain references delayed by several months.
   Some gauges break without warning between the nut and the peg, perhaps
   due to the fact that the surface is slightly rough and does not fare
   well on the passage in the grove over the nut.
   Strings are often false, especially when being stopped going up the
   fingerboard but also when used as diapasons; their inherent
   stretchiness gives them great amplitude so when they are plucked they
   can not only hit against the fingerboard but also against the string of
   a neighbouring course!
   I am sorry to be so negative regarding these strings. I had very high
   hopes and if Mimmo manages to get the formula right and overcome
   production issues, then they will probably become a lot of players'
   number one choice but we are certainly not there yet. Loaded nylgut
   strings are not inexpensive and it is frustrating to spend considerable
   sums of money before being forced to conclude that they are still at
   the experimental stage and that we are acting as guinea pigs.
   I use PVF strings on the 5th courses of renaissance lutes and as
   diapasons on theorbos. They work well and are incredibly long lasting.
   I have seen and heard them used very successfully on 6th, 7th and 8th
   courses of renaissance lutes. Tying them around the bridge is tricky
   (some luthiers such as Martin Shepherd suggest thinning the ends). I
   have no experience of using them on baroque lutes but I would have
   thought that the diameters for the lower courses would have been
   prohibitive.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Aug 29, 2017, at 1:26, Dan Winheld [4] wrote:
   >
   > A question for those of you who have tried, used, and been satisfied
   with the Savarez KF (originally for harp) bass strings- the gut like
   one starting at .90 or .95 mm thickness (losing memory here) and have
   also tried Mimmo Peruffo's new basses- How do they compare? I am mostly
   quite happy with the Savarez KF- VERY satisfied with the long single
   basses on my archlute-  but on my 10 course & 13 course bass rider
   style Baroque lute the very lowest courses could use a little help; but
   if I change them I would want to go all the way to the 6th course.
   >
   > One draw back to the KF is the stiffness, they can be very annoying
   to wrestle through and around the bridge holes, worse as they get
   thicker. I have heard that Peruffo's strings were actually too flexible
   at first and that he had to "dial them back" a bit so that they would
   not fret flat going up the fingerboard. Very counter intuitive to me
   after years of thick basses fretting sharp!
   

[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Mathias Rösel]

I never change from vieil ton to flat tuning or vice versa. My set of
strings has been for Mace's flat tuning ever since (G5 E5 C5 A4 E4 B3 - A3
G3 F3 E3 D3 C3)

Mathias



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Matthew Daillie
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. August 2017 17:03
Cc: lute list
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

   Well Andreas, I really don't know how you manage to tune your
   chanterelle down from g' to eb', for example and your second course
   down from d' to c' and still be able to play correctly. I certainly
   can't. Gut bass strings are certainly more tolerant of changes of pitch
   and can work at different tensions but treble strings are quite another
   matter.
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 29/08/2017 16:23, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute,
norm ally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords
nouveaux lute  types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire
(d-minor) withopu t changing any string. And it works.
Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it.
If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and
the  other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see:
[1]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/A
ccor
ds_Darstellung.html
or
[2]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html
(the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a
better fo rmatted design will follow in the next months...)

It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period
restring ed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which
are near by the old practice.

By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than
with m odern string materials.

All the best,

Andreas

   --

References

   1.
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Acco
rds_Darstellung.html
   2. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Mathias Rösel]

Like Andreas, I've been playing in flat and sharp tunings with one set of
strings. In order to do so, I ordered strings in very low tension.

Mathias



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Andreas Schlegel
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. August 2017 16:24
An: Matthew Daillie
Cc: lute list
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute,
normally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords
nouveaux lute types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire
(d-minor) withoput changing any string. And it works. 
Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it.
If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and
the other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see:
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Acco
rds_Darstellung.html
or
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html
(the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a
better formatted design will follow in the next months...)

It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period
restringed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which
are near by the old practice.

By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than
with modern string materials.

All the best,

Andreas

Am 29.08.2017 um 15:36 schrieb Matthew Daillie :

> Unfortunately it isn't really possible to play the music for 10-course
lute in transitional tunings without changing a number of strings (or having
a second lute) if you're coming from vieil ton. Even going from one
transitional tuning to another is problematic, especially with respect to
the chanterelle.
> 
> Best,
> Matthew
> 
> On 29/08/2017 15:21, Leonard Williams wrote:
>>  I don't play anything of the transitional tuning period, but my 
>> experience with retuning between D or C on my eighth course makes me 
>> wonder about the need to change strings for retuning.  (I came up 
>> [aided by Dan Larsen] with a gimped gut that's not too flabby on the 
>> C, not too bright on the D.)  Perhaps it's easier to accommodate 
>> variable tuning with higher pitches?  Are different materials more 
>> amenable to this? Do you need several lutes, or simply a program 
>> arranged from a single tuning scheme?
>> 
>> Thanks—just curious,
>> Leonard Williams
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at 
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Andreas Schlegel
Eckstr. 6
CH-5737 Menziken
+41 (0)62 771 47 07
lute.cor...@sunrise.ch


--

[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Dan Winheld]

Makes me wonder about the term "Slack key" tunings for Hawaiian guitars- 
that the change in tension is part of the fun...

Dan

On 8/29/2017 7:23 AM, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute, 
normally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords nouveaux 
lute types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire (d-minor) 
withoput changing any string. And it works.
Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it.
If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and 
the other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see:
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accords_Darstellung.html
or
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html
(the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a better 
formatted design will follow in the next months...)

It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period 
restringed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which are 
near by the old practice.

By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than with 
modern string materials.

All the best,

Andreas

Am 29.08.2017 um 15:36 schrieb Matthew Daillie :


Unfortunately it isn't really possible to play the music for 10-course lute in 
transitional tunings without changing a number of strings (or having a second 
lute) if you're coming from vieil ton. Even going from one transitional tuning 
to another is problematic, especially with respect to the chanterelle.

Best,
Matthew

On 29/08/2017 15:21, Leonard Williams wrote:

I don't play anything of the transitional tuning period, but my
experience with retuning between D or C on my eighth course makes me
wonder about the need to change strings for retuning.  (I came up [aided
by Dan Larsen] with a gimped gut that's not too flabby on the C, not too
bright on the D.)  Perhaps it's easier to accommodate variable tuning with
higher pitches?  Are different materials more amenable to this? Do you
need several lutes, or simply a program arranged from a single tuning
scheme?

Thanks—just curious,
Leonard Williams





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Andreas Schlegel
Eckstr. 6
CH-5737 Menziken
+41 (0)62 771 47 07
lute.cor...@sunrise.ch


--

[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Matthew Daillie]

   Well Andreas, I really don't know how you manage to tune your
   chanterelle down from g' to eb', for example and your second course
   down from d' to c' and still be able to play correctly. I certainly
   can't. Gut bass strings are certainly more tolerant of changes of pitch
   and can work at different tensions but treble strings are quite another
   matter.
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 29/08/2017 16:23, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute, norm
ally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords nouveaux lute
 types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire (d-minor) withopu
t changing any string. And it works.
Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it.
If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and the
 other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see:
[1]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accor
ds_Darstellung.html
or
[2]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html
(the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a better fo
rmatted design will follow in the next months...)

It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period restring
ed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which are near by
the old practice.

By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than with m
odern string materials.

All the best,

Andreas

   --

References

   1. 
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accords_Darstellung.html
   2. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html


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[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Andreas Schlegel]

I'm playing since years and years some transitional tunings on my 10c lute, 
normally tuned in VT, without changing any strings - and other accords nouveaux 
lute types which are normally tuned in the nouvel accord ordinaire (d-minor) 
withoput changing any string. And it works. 
Of course the feeling changes - but I can handle it.
If I make a concert program, I have normally one instrument in the dedff and 
the other in edeff and fedff tuning. For the tunings see:
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung/Accords_Darstellung.html
or
http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/styled-5/styled-9/index.html
(the beginning of the translated homepage... the remaining pages and a better 
formatted design will follow in the next months...)

It's simply not thinkable that the lutenists of the transitional period 
restringed their lutes for every tuning! So we have to find solutions which are 
near by the old practice.

By the way: With gut strings it's more comfortable to change tunings than with 
modern string materials.

All the best,

Andreas

Am 29.08.2017 um 15:36 schrieb Matthew Daillie :

> Unfortunately it isn't really possible to play the music for 10-course lute 
> in transitional tunings without changing a number of strings (or having a 
> second lute) if you're coming from vieil ton. Even going from one 
> transitional tuning to another is problematic, especially with respect to the 
> chanterelle.
> 
> Best,
> Matthew
> 
> On 29/08/2017 15:21, Leonard Williams wrote:
>>  I don't play anything of the transitional tuning period, but my
>> experience with retuning between D or C on my eighth course makes me
>> wonder about the need to change strings for retuning.  (I came up [aided
>> by Dan Larsen] with a gimped gut that's not too flabby on the C, not too
>> bright on the D.)  Perhaps it's easier to accommodate variable tuning with
>> higher pitches?  Are different materials more amenable to this? Do you
>> need several lutes, or simply a program arranged from a single tuning
>> scheme?
>> 
>> Thanks—just curious,
>> Leonard Williams
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Andreas Schlegel
Eckstr. 6
CH-5737 Menziken
+41 (0)62 771 47 07
lute.cor...@sunrise.ch


--

[LUTE] Re: Restringing for transitional tunings

[Matthew Daillie]

Unfortunately it isn't really possible to play the music for 10-course 
lute in transitional tunings without changing a number of strings (or 
having a second lute) if you're coming from vieil ton. Even going from 
one transitional tuning to another is problematic, especially with 
respect to the chanterelle.


Best,
Matthew

On 29/08/2017 15:21, Leonard Williams wrote:

I don't play anything of the transitional tuning period, but my
experience with retuning between D or C on my eighth course makes me
wonder about the need to change strings for retuning.  (I came up [aided
by Dan Larsen] with a gimped gut that's not too flabby on the C, not too
bright on the D.)  Perhaps it's easier to accommodate variable tuning with
higher pitches?  Are different materials more amenable to this? Do you
need several lutes, or simply a program arranged from a single tuning
scheme?

Thanks—just curious,
Leonard Williams






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Restringing for transitional tunings

[Leonard Williams]

I don't play anything of the transitional tuning period, but my
experience with retuning between D or C on my eighth course makes me
wonder about the need to change strings for retuning.  (I came up [aided
by Dan Larsen] with a gimped gut that's not too flabby on the C, not too
bright on the D.)  Perhaps it's easier to accommodate variable tuning with
higher pitches?  Are different materials more amenable to this? Do you
need several lutes, or simply a program arranged from a single tuning
scheme?

Thanks—just curious,
Leonard Williams





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Matthew Daillie]

Unfortunately there have been serious issues with the new loaded nylgut strings.

Availability has been erratic ( I believe that there have only been two batches 
so far, the second stiffer than the first) with promises of delivery of certain 
references delayed by several months.

Some gauges break without warning between the nut and the peg, perhaps due to 
the fact that the surface is slightly rough and does not fare well on the 
passage in the grove over the nut.

Strings are often false, especially when being stopped going up the fingerboard 
but also when used as diapasons; their inherent stretchiness gives them great 
amplitude so when they are plucked they can not only hit against the 
fingerboard but also against the string of a neighbouring course!

I am sorry to be so negative regarding these strings. I had very high hopes and 
if Mimmo manages to get the formula right and overcome production issues, then 
they will probably become a lot of players' number one choice but we are 
certainly not there yet. Loaded nylgut strings are not inexpensive and it is 
frustrating to spend considerable sums of money before being forced to conclude 
that they are still at the experimental stage and that we are acting as guinea 
pigs.

I use PVF strings on the 5th courses of renaissance lutes and as diapasons on 
theorbos. They work well and are incredibly long lasting. I have seen and heard 
them used very successfully on 6th, 7th and 8th courses of renaissance lutes. 
Tying them around the bridge is tricky (some luthiers such as Martin Shepherd 
suggest thinning the ends). I have no experience of using them on baroque lutes 
but I would have thought that the diameters for the lower courses would have 
been prohibitive.

Best,

Matthew



> On Aug 29, 2017, at 1:26, Dan Winheld  wrote:
> 
> A question for those of you who have tried, used, and been satisfied with the 
> Savarez KF (originally for harp) bass strings- the gut like one starting at 
> .90 or .95 mm thickness (losing memory here) and have also tried Mimmo 
> Peruffo's new basses- How do they compare? I am mostly quite happy with the 
> Savarez KF- VERY satisfied with the long single basses on my archlute-  but 
> on my 10 course & 13 course bass rider style Baroque lute the very lowest 
> courses could use a little help; but if I change them I would want to go all 
> the way to the 6th course.
> 
> One draw back to the KF is the stiffness, they can be very annoying to 
> wrestle through and around the bridge holes, worse as they get thicker. I 
> have heard that Peruffo's strings were actually too flexible at first and 
> that he had to "dial them back" a bit so that they would not fret flat going 
> up the fingerboard. Very counter intuitive to me after years of thick basses 
> fretting sharp!
> 
> Thanks for any information.Dan
> 
> 
> 
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> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html