[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
I'm a guitarist (blues rock). Lute being very much my second instrument. Neil -Original Message- From: Christopher Stetson [mailto:cstet...@email.smith.edu] Sent: 19 January 2009 14:33 To: Lute List ((E-mail)) Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' Hi, all, In answer to Edward's question, I started on guitar (Delta blues, as a matter of fact), moved to lute, then back to guitar, with mandolin thrown in. Right now I play mainly guitar, several styles, but I'm currently mostly interested in turn of the century (19th to 20th) American guitar and early Hawaiian guitar. My lute interest right now is largely vicarious; my instrument needs some work. I also play shamisen, sanxian, and gu qin (for which I envy your Singapore location!) for the pluckies, and some Asian flutes. Chris. Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg 1/19/2009 3:05 AM On 19 Jan 2009, at 6:33 AM, howard posner wrote: On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list Perhaps because 90% of us are or have been classical guitarists? I'd be really interested to know how many on the lute list are also guitarists or have been at some time. Not disputing Mr Posner's statistic, but merely curious. I started off on lute, without ever having touched guitar before, and even now if I ever have to twiddle on a guitar, I have to mentally play the 'ok, everything is a minor third lower) game. Anyone else *not* a guitar player? Edward in Singapore To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On 19 Jan 2009, at 6:33 AM, howard posner wrote: On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list Perhaps because 90% of us are or have been classical guitarists? I'd be really interested to know how many on the lute list are also guitarists or have been at some time. Not disputing Mr Posner's statistic, but merely curious. I started off on lute, without ever having touched guitar before, and even now if I ever have to twiddle on a guitar, I have to mentally play the 'ok, everything is a minor third lower) game. Anyone else *not* a guitar player? Edward in Singapore To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Really Chris? They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Joe __ From: chriswi...@yahoo.com [mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sun 1/18/2009 10:16 PM To: Mayes, Joseph; David Rastall Cc: Lute List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' Hi Joe, No envy here. No Schadenfreude, either. It turns out that our seemingly more succussful and accomplished cousin, musically mortgaged to the hilt in the best of times, is going to face some really hard times in the future. Can't take joy in that prospect. Really, if you were the chair of a music department and you were forced by budget cuts to eliminate a position, would you choose to fire the piano professor, the choral conductor, the theory teacher or the guitar guy? You'd quickly realize that the world can do without yet another 20 student versions of Leyenda (and 20 students who don't know that the title of their favorite piece isn't even Leyenda). I wish guitarists all the best of luck - I'm one of them! Unfortunately, lack of a really significant solo repertoire coupled with the absence of an integral ensemble role means that things look bleak. What's worse is that guitarists have no one but themselves to blame for it all. Chris --- Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes __ From: David Rastall [[1]mailto:dlu...@verizon.net] Sent: Sun 1/18/2009 2:45 PM To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: Lute List (E-mail) Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' On Jan 18, 2009, at 12:37 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:dlu...@verizon.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
From: Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list Perhaps because 90% of us are or have been classical guitarists? I'd be really interested to know how many on the lute list are also guitarists or have been at some time. Not disputing Mr Posner's statistic, but merely curious. I started off on lute, without ever having touched guitar before, and even now if I ever have to twiddle on a guitar, I have to mentally play the 'ok, everything is a minor third lower) game. Anyone else *not* a guitar player? Edward in Singapore Lynda Sayce, and yours truly. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Hi, all, In answer to Edward's question, I started on guitar (Delta blues, as a matter of fact), moved to lute, then back to guitar, with mandolin thrown in. Right now I play mainly guitar, several styles, but I'm currently mostly interested in turn of the century (19th to 20th) American guitar and early Hawaiian guitar. My lute interest right now is largely vicarious; my instrument needs some work. I also play shamisen, sanxian, and gu qin (for which I envy your Singapore location!) for the pluckies, and some Asian flutes. Chris. Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg 1/19/2009 3:05 AM On 19 Jan 2009, at 6:33 AM, howard posner wrote: On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list Perhaps because 90% of us are or have been classical guitarists? I'd be really interested to know how many on the lute list are also guitarists or have been at some time. Not disputing Mr Posner's statistic, but merely curious. I started off on lute, without ever having touched guitar before, and even now if I ever have to twiddle on a guitar, I have to mentally play the 'ok, everything is a minor third lower) game. Anyone else *not* a guitar player? Edward in Singapore To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' w/ ham on the side...
Three day weekends are great. Sometimes the lute list really does turn into an afternoon down at the Lute Player's Pub, except we each have to provide our own beverage. So I told my wife (The Soprano Who Must Be Obeyed - apologies, R.I.P., John Mortimer) that the guitarists-who-play-lute are arguing with the lutenists-who-play-guitar who is the most irrelevant of all and then a goddamn 3-string BALALAIKA Paganini walks into the bar and beats us all up. Now if only my archlute had just one more course, I'd show him... yeah, I'd really show him Happy Martin Luther King Day before the inaug event to all, including of course my dear colleagues across the puddle. Dan On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
I am one of those lute professors, but my position is just adjunct, so there is no use letting me go. ed At 10:31 AM 1/19/2009 -0500, David Rastall wrote: On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date: 1/19/2009 9:37 AM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' w/ hamon the side...
Well put and succinct, Dan. Darn Russki sure can play. Further, I think that I, when playing Hawaiian guitar music from 1915, can claim total irrelevance with confidence. Happy inaug. to you from your side of the puddle, though about as close as you can get to the other side. Chris. Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net 1/19/2009 5:33 PM Three day weekends are great. Sometimes the lute list really does turn into an afternoon down at the Lute Player's Pub, except we each have to provide our own beverage. So I told my wife (The Soprano Who Must Be Obeyed - apologies, R.I.P., John Mortimer) that the guitarists-who-play-lute are arguing with the lutenists-who-play-guitar who is the most irrelevant of all and then a goddamn 3-string BALALAIKA Paganini walks into the bar and beats us all up. Now if only my archlute had just one more course, I'd show him... yeah, I'd really show him Happy Martin Luther King Day before the inaug event to all, including of course my dear colleagues across the puddle. Dan On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' w/ ham on the side...
Right back at you, Dan. I enjoy your whimsical posts. I can almost hear the Philadelphia suburbs in them. See you at the pub. JM __ From: Daniel Winheld [mailto:dwinh...@comcast.net] Sent: Mon 1/19/2009 5:33 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' w/ ham on the side... Three day weekends are great. Sometimes the lute list really does turn into an afternoon down at the Lute Player's Pub, except we each have to provide our own beverage. So I told my wife (The Soprano Who Must Be Obeyed - apologies, R.I.P., John Mortimer) that the guitarists-who-play-lute are arguing with the lutenists-who-play-guitar who is the most irrelevant of all and then a goddamn 3-string BALALAIKA Paganini walks into the bar and beats us all up. Now if only my archlute had just one more course, I'd show him... yeah, I'd really show him Happy Martin Luther King Day before the inaug event to all, including of course my dear colleagues across the puddle. Dan On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Does it strike you, that the provider of this must be colour blind?? - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' Has this been noted before: http://www.hernanmouro.com/uploads/pdf/guitar_timeline.pdf Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com schrieb: Has this been noted before: http://www.hernanmouro.com/uploads/pdf/guitar_timeline.pdf Stuart Thanks for this! (Sweelinck has been placed a bit awkwardly, though.) -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Mathias Rösel wrote: Has this been noted before: http://www.hernanmouro.com/uploads/pdf/guitar_timeline.pdf Stuart Thanks for this! (Sweelinck has been placed a bit awkwardly, though.) The whole thing seems rather eccentric -even allowing for the colour-coding confusion of four-course guitar and vihuela. I know it's OT but I don't think many modern guitarists think of Boulez as a notable composer of guitar music! (Is there much more than the guitar part in 'Le Marteau..'?) And Diesel? (googling Diesel got me to this). Possibly it's just some kid's effort but because it's nicely produced it looks authoritative. Stuart No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
All, Elliot Carter, while not very prolific for guitar, is noticeably absent. (And still very much alive and composing at 100!) Other than that, my general observation in that its sad that Leo Brouwer is the youngest composer o be called notable. (Sad that he's even included as a notable, given the overall lackluster quality of his music.) Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Chris --- Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote: Mathias Rösel wrote: Has this been noted before: http://www.hernanmouro.com/uploads/pdf/guitar_timeline.pdf Stuart Thanks for this! (Sweelinck has been placed a bit awkwardly, though.) The whole thing seems rather eccentric -even allowing for the colour-coding confusion of four-course guitar and vihuela. I know it's OT but I don't think many modern guitarists think of Boulez as a notable composer of guitar music! (Is there much more than the guitar part in 'Le Marteau..'?) And Diesel? (googling Diesel got me to this). Possibly it's just some kid's effort but because it's nicely produced it looks authoritative. Stuart No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 18, 2009, at 12:37 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
There may be a couple of pieces for guitar, and guitar and voice, by Maxwell Davies, I believe. http://www.chesternovello.com/default.aspx? TabId=2432State_3041=2workId_3041=11859 http://www.chesternovello.com/default.aspx? TabId=2432State_3041=2workId_3041=11859 Anthony Le 18 janv. 09 à 18:37, chriswi...@yahoo.com a écrit : All, Elliot Carter, while not very prolific for guitar, is noticeably absent. (And still very much alive and composing at 100!) Other than that, my general observation in that its sad that Leo Brouwer is the youngest composer o be called notable. (Sad that he's even included as a notable, given the overall lackluster quality of his music.) Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Chris --- Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote: Mathias Rösel wrote: Has this been noted before: http://www.hernanmouro.com/uploads/pdf/guitar_timeline.pdf Stuart Thanks for this! (Sweelinck has been placed a bit awkwardly, though.) The whole thing seems rather eccentric -even allowing for the colour-coding confusion of four-course guitar and vihuela. I know it's OT but I don't think many modern guitarists think of Boulez as a notable composer of guitar music! (Is there much more than the guitar part in 'Le Marteau..'?) And Diesel? (googling Diesel got me to this). Possibly it's just some kid's effort but because it's nicely produced it looks authoritative. Stuart -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes __ From: David Rastall [mailto:dlu...@verizon.net] Sent: Sun 1/18/2009 2:45 PM To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: Lute List (E-mail) Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' On Jan 18, 2009, at 12:37 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Seems to me, a great deal of posters on this list are interested in almost everything plucked, and then some, especially a half-brother - love or hate... G. - Original Message - From: Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu To: David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net; chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: Lute List (E-mail) lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:11 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list Perhaps because 90% of us are or have been classical guitarists? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Well- what heights, exactly was it up to; and where precisely has it slipped today? Is there some higher orbit that it was supposed to attain, other than where it is now? It seems to me that it went from close to nowhere (early 20th century) and finally reached a proper level, (Thank you, Tarrega, Miguel Llobet, Andres, Julian, Alirio Diaz, et al) at which point things level out- very logical in the normal course of events. Hell, it's not supposed to be a real-estate or other such bubble- those things just crash and burn. That's not happening by a long shot. And where is the lute world today by comparison, if this is not too much of an attempt to measure apples against oranges? (Maybe it is.) As to bland, I disagree- listen to David Starobin's stuff, he's not the only one, either. Me, I simply prefer the lute its entire milieu as a matter of who I am musically; but for my listening pleasure all good guitarists of all genres hold up very well- Jazz, blues, Gypsy jazz, Latin American, even Classical. Recently I heard some Astor Piazzola (some original guitar, some very well transcribed pieces) that I love so much I may try to get and desecrate on the Renaissance lute. First time since I did Dave Van Ronk's St. Louis Tickle in 1976 on an 8-course lute at an LSA Seminar that I've even wanted to play relatively modern guitar music. Incidentally, Villa Lobos' Etude #1 is a dynamite arpeggio exercise for the bass viola da gamba (OT- Sorry!) Dan I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
And where among the apples and oranges do you place G. Sollscher's altgitarr, Blanchette's archguitar, harp-guitars, etc.etc. ? G. - Original Message - From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:40 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' Well- what heights, exactly was it up to; and where precisely has it slipped today? Is there some higher orbit that it was supposed to attain, other than where it is now? It seems to me that it went from close to nowhere (early 20th century) and finally reached a proper level, (Thank you, Tarrega, Miguel Llobet, Andres, Julian, Alirio Diaz, et al) at which point things level out- very logical in the normal course of events. Hell, it's not supposed to be a real-estate or other such bubble- those things just crash and burn. That's not happening by a long shot. And where is the lute world today by comparison, if this is not too much of an attempt to measure apples against oranges? (Maybe it is.) As to bland, I disagree- listen to David Starobin's stuff, he's not the only one, either. Me, I simply prefer the lute its entire milieu as a matter of who I am musically; but for my listening pleasure all good guitarists of all genres hold up very well- Jazz, blues, Gypsy jazz, Latin American, even Classical. Recently I heard some Astor Piazzola (some original guitar, some very well transcribed pieces) that I love so much I may try to get and desecrate on the Renaissance lute. First time since I did Dave Van Ronk's St. Louis Tickle in 1976 on an 8-course lute at an LSA Seminar that I've even wanted to play relatively modern guitar music. Incidentally, Villa Lobos' Etude #1 is a dynamite arpeggio exercise for the bass viola da gamba (OT- Sorry!) Dan I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Daniel Winheld wrote: Recently I heard some Astor Piazzola (some original guitar, some very well transcribed pieces) that I love so much I may try to get and desecrate on the Renaissance lute. Piazzolo - all clenched and seething (or then again, gushing) would be a strange thing on the ethereal lute. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Stuart Walsh wrote: Daniel Winheld wrote: Recently I heard some Astor Piazzola (some original guitar, some very well transcribed pieces) that I love so much I may try to get and desecrate on the Renaissance lute. Piazzolo - all clenched and seething (or then again, gushing) would be a strange thing on the ethereal lute. Even more to the point: Piazzolla...!! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
No idea- that completely upsets the fruit cart. Specialty seasonal food section, or the open can of worms dept. (should have kept my damn mouth shut). Dan And where among the apples and oranges do you place G. Sollscher's altgitarr, Blanchette's archguitar, harp-guitars, etc.etc. ? G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Daniel Winheld wrote: Recently I heard some Astor Piazzola (some original guitar, some very well transcribed pieces) that I love so much I may try to get and desecrate on the Renaissance lute. Piazzolo - all clenched and seething (or then again, gushing) would be a strange thing on the ethereal lute. No doubt. Maybe there's a reason I haven't acted on that project yet. Then again, imagine some of Albert de Rippe's most anguished fantasies (No. 22 in the CNRS edition for example) redone by G. A. Terzi or Kapsberger in a fit of rage- something could be possible. The two pieces I'm bitten by are Triston and Verano Porteno- that's the crazy one. - Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
Hi Joe, No envy here. No Schadenfreude, either. It turns out that our seemingly more succussful and accomplished cousin, musically mortgaged to the hilt in the best of times, is going to face some really hard times in the future. Can't take joy in that prospect. Really, if you were the chair of a music department and you were forced by budget cuts to eliminate a position, would you choose to fire the piano professor, the choral conductor, the theory teacher or the guitar guy? You'd quickly realize that the world can do without yet another 20 student versions of Leyenda (and 20 students who don't know that the title of their favorite piece isn't even Leyenda). I wish guitarists all the best of luck - I'm one of them! Unfortunately, lack of a really significant solo repertoire coupled with the absence of an integral ensemble role means that things look bleak. What's worse is that guitarists have no one but themselves to blame for it all. Chris --- Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu wrote: I don't know why the world of classical guitar is of such interest to this list - although I believe it's natural to be interested and a little envious of a more sucessful and accomplished cousin. Joseph Mayes __ From: David Rastall [mailto:dlu...@verizon.net] Sent: Sun 1/18/2009 2:45 PM To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: Lute List (E-mail) Subject: [LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)' On Jan 18, 2009, at 12:37 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 18, 2009, at 10:16 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: ...No envy here. Me neither. As a player on both instruments I'm not exactly in competition with myself! ...You'd quickly realize that the world can do without yet another 20 student versions of Leyenda (and 20 students who don't know that the title of their favorite piece isn't even Leyenda). Not to mention another 20 student versions of the Moonlight Etude. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
