[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[Max Langer]

Does naming a piece after a fit sailor (at least in the 19th century
there seems to be mention in literature of female sailors/fishermen
(fisherwomen?), eg: Dickens), sailor/merchant wife (or daughter) seem
all that far fetched? Surely music was all about sex, drugs and rolled
chords already back then.

On 11 March 2017 at 10:30, adS  wrote:
> On 11.03.2017 07:10, jslute wrote:
>>
>>
>> There's an English country dance from around the same time called "The
>> Female Sailor," and Vallet seems to have some English connections.
>> Jim Stimson
>
>
> I have "discovered" this already - this dance was written by Marais in 1706
> :(
>
> Rainer
>
> There is another Mariniere by Campra which doesn't help, either.
>
> PS
> Is it real that difficult to press reply instead of "reply to all"?
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[adS]

On 11.03.2017 07:10, jslute wrote:


There's an English country dance from around the same time called "The Female 
Sailor," and Vallet seems to have some English connections.
Jim Stimson


I have "discovered" this already - this dance was written by Marais in 1706 :(

Rainer

There is another Mariniere by Campra which doesn't help, either.

PS
Is it real that difficult to press reply instead of "reply to all"?




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[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[jslute]

   There's an English country dance from around the same time called "The
   Female Sailor," and Vallet seems to have some English connections.

   Jim Stimson

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Jean-Marie Poirier 
   Date: 3/10/17 2:30 PM (GMT-05:00)
   To: adS , 'Lute List'
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: La_Marinière?=

   Rainer you should get the facsimile from the Dutch Lute society !
   Excellent edition to spare you poor old CNRS book ;-) !
   A "marinière" would be a sailor girl... No idea why Vallet uses this
   term for his piece.
   Best,
   Jean-Marie
   --
   >Dear lute netters,
   >
   >I wonder what the meaning of la marinière could have been in 1615
   (Vallet's 1st book).
   >Does anybody know?
   >
   >Rainer
   >
   >PS
   >
   >My CNRS Vallet edition started to fall apart 25 years ago - VERY cheap
   paper.
   >
   >I have borrowed the second edition (1989) from a library.
   >
   >The paper is much better, but unfortunately:
   >
   >"Dans cette deuxième édition, l'appareil critique et la musique n'ont
   pas été modifiés."
   >
   >
   >
   >To get on or off this list see list information at
   >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[Matthew Daillie]

You can download a 17th century French dictionary here:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k50614b

I think 'La marinière' could also be translated as the 'sailor's wife'. 
You might be interested to know that there is a composition by François 
Couperin (obviously much later) called 'Les Matelotes Provençales', so 
some more female seafarers (or wives thereof).


Very often the titles of pieces by French baroque composers were in the 
feminine form, even when they were named after a male composer (such as 
'La Rameau' by Forqueray, or 'La Forqueray' by Duphly). I suspect that 
it was because most of the dance forms were feminine (une gavotte, une 
sarabande, une gigue, une allemande, etc). If you look at other pièces 
by Vallet you will see that there is a fancy called 'La Mendiante 
Fantasye'. Further works include 'La Maturine', 'La Vallette', 'La 
Pinçante' and 'La Picarde'.


Best,

Matthew


On 10/03/2017 20:22, adS wrote:

Dear lute netters,

I wonder what the meaning of la marinière could have been in 1615 
(Vallet's 1st book).

Does anybody know?

Rainer

PS




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[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[adS]

On 10.03.2017 20:30, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:

Rainer you should get the facsimile from the Dutch Lute society ! Excellent 
edition to spare you poor old CNRS book ;-) !


I have both facsimile editions.


A "marinière" would be a sailor girl... No idea why Vallet uses this term for 
his piece.


Sure? Of course I thought so. But were there any female sailors in 1615?

Rainer




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[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[Jean-Marie Poirier]

..and "un marinier" (masculine) means a man who skips a boat but rather on 
rivers, not on the sea. "Marinière" would be the feminine form of that.
There is a song by by Guillaume Tessier, a Breton musician, published in 1582 
(4 parts)  with the text incipit : 
"Les mariniers adorent un beau jour
Quand plein d'espoir s'en vont courir fortune"...

Not related musically to Vallet's piece though.

Best,

Jean-Marie

--
 
>Dear lute netters,
>
>I wonder what the meaning of la marinière could have been in 1615 (Vallet's 
>1st book).
>Does anybody know?
>
>Rainer
>
>PS
>
>My CNRS Vallet edition started to fall apart 25 years ago - VERY cheap paper.
>
>I have borrowed the second edition (1989) from a library.
>
>The paper is much better, but unfortunately:
>
>"Dans cette deuxième édition, l'appareil critique et la musique n'ont pas été 
>modifiés."
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: La_Marini=c3=a8re?=

[Jean-Marie Poirier]

Rainer you should get the facsimile from the Dutch Lute society ! Excellent 
edition to spare you poor old CNRS book ;-) !
A "marinière" would be a sailor girl... No idea why Vallet uses this term for 
his piece.

Best,

Jean-Marie

--
 
>Dear lute netters,
>
>I wonder what the meaning of la marinière could have been in 1615 (Vallet's 
>1st book).
>Does anybody know?
>
>Rainer
>
>PS
>
>My CNRS Vallet edition started to fall apart 25 years ago - VERY cheap paper.
>
>I have borrowed the second edition (1989) from a library.
>
>The paper is much better, but unfortunately:
>
>"Dans cette deuxième édition, l'appareil critique et la musique n'ont pas été 
>modifiés."
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html