Re: Shape note
Am 10 May 2004 um 17:45 hat Stewart McCoy geschrieben: The sound is utterly incredible, and in all seriousness this kind of singing needs a health warning, such is the effort required to do it. Dear Stewart and all, if one doesn't try to copy an exotic throat technique but just experiments with the kind of filtering out the overtones that Thomas described it is completely harmless. You just play around with the tone in your mouth. Another example would be singing bø and smiling at the same time. Then slightly change the space in your mouth with the tongue. Regards, Stephan
Re: Re: Shape note
Dear Arthur, finally I'm back from switzerland! Yes - I've played or rehearsed what will be heard in Schweden in june. We haven't perfomed the Hagen-Duet for a while ... And I have collected material for the bookstore of the LSA end of june! I'm very sure Craigs explanation is correct. Also Matthias gave a link to tibetian and far east traditions of that kind of singing. I was told it could also be considered a traditional european technique. But you won't find any evidence. So this is just guesswork. In any case there are interesting experiments of modern composers who require this technique. Best wishes Thomas Am Fre, 2004-05-07 um 15.53 schrieb Arthur Ness (boston): Dear Thomas, Enjoy Switzerland. Are you playing? What you describe seems to be similar to a modern woodwind technique called multisonics. The player plays double stops by using special fingerings and I believe may play one note and hum the other one. Craig's experience is interesting. I think someone else mentioned it once before on this list. I'd like to hear a demonstration some day, but only if it wouldn't ruin the voice. Arthur. FROM: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Hi Arthur! Thanks for explaining the shape notes! And to Alain for the instructive link! I was completely on the wrong path! Obertonsingen means a certain scale (containing just the overtones) and way of singing (producing overtones in addition to the actual note you want to sing). This is produced by a certain way to exclain the vowels. U has less overtones than I. Everyone can try by himself singing one tone moving from u to i and what happens with the colour and the overtones. You may then imagine what could happen if you train your voice in a way that the rate of overtones increase up to parity with the actual note. Actually this sounds funny (but you need to get used to it g) and some modern composers made works for overtonesinging. Best wishes Thomas Am Fre, 2004-05-07 um 01.02 schrieb Arthur Ness (boston): Dear Thomas,As far as I know Shape Note notation and singing is an American invention from around 1800, and was used primarily in singing hymns (particularly in southern and midwestern churches). The earliest sytem has four syllables, Fa, Sol, La, Mi, and is sometimes called Fasola. Now an F major scale would be Fa (=the note F), Sol (=G), La (=A), / Fa (=the note Bb), Sol (=C), La (=D), Mi (=E), Fa (=F)..So the singers could identify the solmisation syllable, the music was notated on the usual staves, but each syllable had a differently shaped note head (instead of our round-shaped note heads). Fa was represented by a triangle, Mi with oblong circle, La with a rectangle, and Mi with diamond-shaped note head.I have never tried it, but it seems that it would be a very efficient method to train people who cannot read music to sing part songs. The most famous collection is _Sacred Harmony_ which orignally included Revolutionary War music by William Billings. Amazing Grace first appears in a shape-note hymnal.It is still being used today and has gone through a zillion editions. A few years ago I even did the engravings of some shape note music for the Revels Songbook.I have forgotten how voice tablature works. There is such a thing, but I don't think it is related to Fasola.Now you have to tell me, Thomas, what Obertonsingen is.g Please. Do you mean yodeling. That kind of singing that Swiss people sing in the Alps? Arthur. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 lautenist autenist.de www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss -- -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Shape note
Juliet's nurse, and the family retainer, in the early part of Romeo and Juliet, discuss her falling on her face as a child, and how she will fall on her back when she grows. But old age also makes a directional problem. One's voice breaks down rather than up (and take that in any sense you choose). Best, Jon
Re: Re: Shape note
Dear Thomas, Obertonsingen means a certain scale (containing just the overtones) and way of singing (producing overtones in addition to the actual note you want to sing). This is produced by a certain way to exclain the vowels. U has less overtones than I. Everyone can try by himself singing one tone moving from u to i and what happens with the colour and the overtones. You may then imagine what could happen if you train your voice in a way that the rate of overtones increase up to parity with the actual note. Actually this sounds funny (but you need to get used to it g) and some modern composers made works for overtonesinging. Thank you for the explanation of Obertonsingen. When I first read the word I thought you were describing the throat singing of Mongolia and Tuva, called khoomei in the language of the steppe, and by some English speakers overtone singing. For those unfamiliar with khoomei this is the type of singing whereby a tone is produced with the vocal chords and another distinct tone, often the melodic line, is produced as an harmonic. Thus one has a drone made by the vocal chords in the normal manner, and a harmonic melody line. I've tried this a few times and actually been successful once or twice. It takes a lot of practice and a fellow I know who did this a lot claimed to have lost a couple of registers in his upper voice while gaining in the lower range. Since I prefer to sing tenor and thus don't want to lose the upper end of my range I have chosen not to practice this a lot. Regards, Craig
Re: Re: Shape note
Dear Thomas, Enjoy Switzerland. Are you playing? What you describe seems to be similar to a modern woodwind technique called multisonics. The player plays double stops by using special fingerings and I believe may play one note and hum the other one. Craig's experience is interesting. I think someone else mentioned it once before on this list. I'd like to hear a demonstration some day, but only if it wouldn't ruin the voice. Arthur. FROM: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Hi Arthur! Thanks for explaining the shape notes! And to Alain for the instructive link! I was completely on the wrong path! Obertonsingen means a certain scale (containing just the overtones) and way of singing (producing overtones in addition to the actual note you want to sing). This is produced by a certain way to exclain the vowels. U has less overtones than I. Everyone can try by himself singing one tone moving from u to i and what happens with the colour and the overtones. You may then imagine what could happen if you train your voice in a way that the rate of overtones increase up to parity with the actual note. Actually this sounds funny (but you need to get used to it g) and some modern composers made works for overtonesinging. Best wishes Thomas Am Fre, 2004-05-07 um 01.02 schrieb Arthur Ness (boston): Dear Thomas,As far as I know Shape Note notation and singing is an American invention from around 1800, and was used primarily in singing hymns (particularly in southern and midwestern churches). The earliest sytem has four syllables, Fa, Sol, La, Mi, and is sometimes called Fasola. Now an F major scale would be Fa (=the note F), Sol (=G), La (=A), / Fa (=the note Bb), Sol (=C), La (=D), Mi (=E), Fa (=F)..So the singers could identify the solmisation syllable, the music was notated on the usual staves, but each syllable had a differently shaped note head (instead of our round-shaped note heads). Fa was represented by a triangle, Mi with oblong circle, La with a rectangle, and Mi with diamond-shaped note head.I have never tried it, but it seems that it would be a very efficient method to train people who cannot read music to sing part songs. The most famous collection is _Sacred Harmony_ which orignally included Revolutionary War music by William Billings. Amazing Grace first appears in a shape-note hymnal.It is still being used today and has gone through a zillion editions. A few years ago I even did the engravings of some shape note music for the Revels Songbook.I have forgotten how voice tablature works. There is such a thing, but I don't think it is related to Fasola.Now you have to tell me, Thomas, what Obertonsingen is.g Please. Do you mean yodeling. That kind of singing that Swiss people sing in the Alps? Arthur. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 lautenist autenist.de www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
RE: Shape note
Obertonsingen? Could the English meaning be to sing a descant? Thanks for a very good description Thomas Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: Thomas Schall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 May 2004 09:57 To: Arthur Ness (boston) Cc: LUTE NET Subject:Re: Shape note Hi Arthur! Thanks for explaining the shape notes! And to Alain for the instructive link! I was completely on the wrong path! Obertonsingen means a certain scale (containing just the overtones) and way of singing (producing overtones in addition to the actual note you want to sing). This is produced by a certain way to exclain the vowels. U has less overtones than I. Everyone can try by himself singing one tone moving from u to i and what happens with the colour and the overtones. You may then imagine what could happen if you train your voice in a way that the rate of overtones increase up to parity with the actual note. Actually this sounds funny (but you need to get used to it g) and some modern composers made works for overtonesinging. Best wishes Thomas Am Fre, 2004-05-07 um 01.02 schrieb Arthur Ness (boston): Dear Thomas, As far as I know Shape Note notation and singing is an American invention from around 1800, and was used primarily in singing hymns (particularly in southern and midwestern churches). The earliest sytem has four syllables, Fa, Sol, La, Mi, and is sometimes called Fasola. Now an F major scale would be Fa (=the note F), Sol (=G), La (=A), / Fa (=the note Bb), Sol (=C), La (=D), Mi (=E), Fa (=F).. So the singers could identify the solmisation syllable, the music was notated on the usual staves, but each syllable had a differently shaped note head (instead of our round-shaped note heads). Fa was represented by a triangle, Mi with oblong circle, La with a rectangle, and Mi with diamond-shaped note head. I have never tried it, but it seems that it would be a very efficient method to train people who cannot read music to sing part songs. The most famous collection is _Sacred Harmony_ which orignally included Revolutionary War music by William Billings. Amazing Grace first appears in a shape-note hymnal. It is still being used today and has gone through a zillion editions. A few years ago I even did the engravings of some shape note music for the Revels Songbook. I have forgotten how voice tablature works. There is such a thing, but I don't think it is related to Fasola. Now you have to tell me, Thomas, what Obertonsingen is.g Please. Do you mean yodeling. That kind of singing that Swiss people sing in the Alps? Arthur. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Shape note
Don't know how it is lute-related. Because, fortunately, we don't always think in straight lines. As Craig said, we call this overtone singing. Ron does know this, of course, but he's pretending not to. It's very common in some parts of England on Fridays, about 11 o'clock in the evening. The Tibetan version is better. ;-) Tony Ron Fletcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Obertonsingen? Could the English meaning be to sing a descant? Thanks for a very good description Thomas Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: Thomas Schall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 May 2004 09:57 To: Arthur Ness (boston) Cc: LUTE NET Subject: Re: Shape note Hi Arthur! Thanks for explaining the shape notes! And to Alain for the instructive link! I was completely on the wrong path! Obertonsingen means a certain scale (containing just the overtones) and way of singing (producing overtones in addition to the actual note you want to sing). This is produced by a certain way to exclain the vowels. U has less overtones than I. Everyone can try by himself singing one tone moving from u to i and what happens with the colour and the overtones. You may then imagine what could happen if you train your voice in a way that the rate of overtones increase up to parity with the actual note. Actually this sounds funny (but you need to get used to it g) and some modern composers made works for overtonesinging. Best wishes Thomas Am Fre, 2004-05-07 um 01.02 schrieb Arthur Ness (boston): Dear Thomas, As far as I know Shape Note notation and singing is an American invention from around 1800, and was used primarily in singing hymns (particularly in southern and midwestern churches). The earliest sytem has four syllables, Fa, Sol, La, Mi, and is sometimes called Fasola. Now an F major scale would be Fa (=the note F), Sol (=G), La (=A), / Fa (=the note Bb), Sol (=C), La (=D), Mi (=E), Fa (=F).. So the singers could identify the solmisation syllable, the music was notated on the usual staves, but each syllable had a differently shaped note head (instead of our round-shaped note heads). Fa was represented by a triangle, Mi with oblong circle, La with a rectangle, and Mi with diamond-shaped note head. I have never tried it, but it seems that it would be a very efficient method to train people who cannot read music to sing part songs. The most famous collection is _Sacred Harmony_ which orignally included Revolutionary War music by William Billings. Amazing Grace first appears in a shape-note hymnal. It is still being used today and has gone through a zillion editions. A few years ago I even did the engravings of some shape note music for the Revels Songbook. I have forgotten how voice tablature works. There is such a thing, but I don't think it is related to Fasola. Now you have to tell me, Thomas, what Obertonsingen is.g Please. Do you mean yodeling. That kind of singing that Swiss people sing in the Alps? Arthur. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss -- -- Viele Grüße Mathias Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesucht: Das Beste für die Stadt Ökumenischer Stadtkirchentag vom 19. bis 26. September 2004 in Bremen ! http://www.stadtkirchentag-bremen.de
Re: Shape note
would you please announce it before you're going to be kidding so that others (me, that is) can get it ;) MR Tony Chalkley [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Don't know how it is lute-related. Because, fortunately, we don't always think in straight lines. As Craig said, we call this overtone singing. Ron does know this, of course, but he's pretending not to. It's very common in some parts of England on Fridays, about 11 o'clock in the evening. The Tibetan version is better. ;-) Tony -- Best, Mathias Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesucht: Das Beste für die Stadt Ökumenischer Stadtkirchentag vom 19. bis 26. September 2004 in Bremen ! http://www.stadtkirchentag-bremen.de
Re: Shape note
In view of a recent discussion: There is a fairly extensive discussion of shape note singing by the Anonymous 4 (with musical examples) on the NPR WEB site at http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1834026 under the Listen to Anonymous 4 Live link. You'll need a reasonably fast Internet connection, but very nice stuff - Alain At 10:50 AM 5/6/04, Roman Turovsky wrote: Gabriel's site is finally (more or less) functional: http://www.polyhymnion.org/schebor Enjoy, RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org
Re: Shape note
Just a question: does shape note singing has anything to do with what we in germany call Obertonsingen? Sorry - I simply don't understand what this thread is about ... Thomas Am Don, 2004-05-06 um 23.13 schrieb Alain Veylit: In view of a recent discussion: There is a fairly extensive discussion of shape note singing by the Anonymous 4 (with musical examples) on the NPR WEB site at http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1834026 under the Listen to Anonymous 4 Live link. You'll need a reasonably fast Internet connection, but very nice stuff - Alain At 10:50 AM 5/6/04, Roman Turovsky wrote: Gabriel's site is finally (more or less) functional: http://www.polyhymnion.org/schebor Enjoy, RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Shape note
Thomas, Not being at all a specialist myself, it seems that the music is notated with shapes: I think G is a circle, for instance. BTW, the NPR archives have many interesting links, for instance a one hour interview with Hop. Smith on the vihuela at http://www.npr.org/programs/pt/4a/smith.html Since the archives are searchable, all you need to do is to search for a keyword like lute and sort out what interests you most. This should also work from Europe and elsewhere (NPR is the American National Public Radio). Some of the Real Player links however require a RealPlayer plugin that RealPlayer knows nothing about - a tad frustrating... Alain At 03:13 PM 5/6/04, Thomas Schall wrote: Just a question: does shape note singing has anything to do with what we in germany call Obertonsingen? Sorry - I simply don't understand what this thread is about ... Thomas Am Don, 2004-05-06 um 23.13 schrieb Alain Veylit: In view of a recent discussion: There is a fairly extensive discussion of shape note singing by the Anonymous 4 (with musical examples) on the NPR WEB site at http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1834026http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1834026 under the Listen to Anonymous 4 Live link. You'll need a reasonably fast Internet connection, but very nice stuff - Alain At 10:50 AM 5/6/04, Roman Turovsky wrote: Gabriel's site is finally (more or less) functional: http://www.polyhymnion.org/scheborhttp://www.polyhymnion.org/schebor Enjoy, RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.orghttp://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss
Re: Shape note
Dear Thomas, As far as I know Shape Note notation and singing is an American invention from around 1800, and was used primarily in singing hymns (particularly in southern and midwestern churches). The earliest sytem has four syllables, Fa, Sol, La, Mi, and is sometimes called Fasola. Now an F major scale would be Fa (=the note F), Sol (=G), La (=A), / Fa (=the note Bb), Sol (=C), La (=D), Mi (=E), Fa (=F).. So the singers could identify the solmisation syllable, the music was notated on the usual staves, but each syllable had a differently shaped note head (instead of our round-shaped note heads). Fa was represented by a triangle, Mi with oblong circle, La with a rectangle, and Mi with diamond-shaped note head. I have never tried it, but it seems that it would be a very efficient method to train people who cannot read music to sing part songs. The most famous collection is _Sacred Harmony_ which orignally included Revolutionary War music by William Billings. Amazing Grace first appears in a shape-note hymnal. It is still being used today and has gone through a zillion editions. A few years ago I even did the engravings of some shape note music for the Revels Songbook. I have forgotten how voice tablature works. There is such a thing, but I don't think it is related to Fasola. Now you have to tell me, Thomas, what Obertonsingen is.g Please. Do you mean yodeling. That kind of singing that Swiss people sing in the Alps? Arthur.
