Re: email

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

On Sat 2024-04-20 14:13:32 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

> We now have something more than 4000 unread messages in the president 
> mailbox.  
> Would anyone like to do it?

Shouldn't the president do it?

> [... 5 lines elided]

Best,
Yuchen

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PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040  4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0
https://ypei.org/assets/ypei-pubkey.txt
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email

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

We now have something more than 4000 unread messages in the president mailbox.  
Would anyone like to do it?  Most of them are spam and could be cleared out in 
an hour or so.

Also I've configured the list server to block mail from comcast.net because 
someone at comcast is reporting it's mail as spam.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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president email

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

The LUV president email has not been read at all for 11 months and there is 
still unread email from 2021.

Is there anyone who has the time to go through it?  Most of it is spam that 
can be easily identified and discarded and there's probably some important 
email in the rest.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



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Re: Email (SMTP+IMAP) Not working on ONLY my PC

[Jason White via luv-main]

On 31/7/23 18:53, piers via luv-main wrote:
4077CBBF3C7F:error:806F:system library:BIO_connect:Connection 
refused:../crypto/bio/bio_sock2.c:125:calling connect()


Are you sure there isn't an entry in IPTables/NFTables on the server 
which is blocking the incoming connection on port 993? Checking any 
firewall on the server would be prudent, I think.


Also, check fail2ban if that's installed.

This doesn't look like a certiicate error.

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Re: Email (SMTP+IMAP) Not working on ONLY my PC [SOLVED]

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

The symptoms were that email was not working in both directions.

The actual cause was my IP found its way to Fail2Ban. I can only assume 
that the mail clients I was using via IMAP (dovecot was the only ban 
entry) were using IMAP ***prior*** to sending a message to save drafts, 
add to sent or whatnot. So even though I could have used SMTP(S) the 
email client was doing its thing and failing at the first issue which 
was invoking an IMAP connection.


Thank you Jason for your response.

Thanks


Piers


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Re: Email (SMTP+IMAP) Not working on ONLY my PC

[piers via luv-main]

On 2023-08-01 07:58, Jason White via luv-main wrote:


The next step, I suppose, would be to obtain debugging output from an 
IMAP client to find out whether it's the TCP connection, or TLS 
(assuming it's connecting over TLS), or IMAP itself.




Thanks a million! I am getting two different responses from :993 (Error) 
:433 (Pass). There is definitely something off with how things are set 
up with TLS.


example@example-01:~$ openssl s_client -connect example.com.au:993 
-tls1_2 -brief


4077CBBF3C7F:error:806F:system library:BIO_connect:Connection 
refused:../crypto/bio/bio_sock2.c:125:calling connect()
4077CBBF3C7F:error:1067:BIO routines:BIO_connect:connect 
error:../crypto/bio/bio_sock2.c:127:

connect:errno=111

vs

example@example-01:~$ openssl s_client -connect example.com.au:443 
-tls1_2 -brief

CONNECTION ESTABLISHED
Protocol version: TLSv1.2
Ciphersuite: ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384
Peer certificate: CN = example.com.au
Hash used: SHA256
Signature type: RSA-PSS
Verification: OK
Supported Elliptic Curve Point Formats: 
uncompressed:ansiX962_compressed_prime:ansiX962_compressed_char2

Server Temp Key: X25519, 253 bits

I will check that the server is running the same cert for both services 
(I use LE so it should). If that isn't a fix I have more to go on. 
Thanks for your help.


Thanks

Piers
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Re: Email (SMTP+IMAP) Not working on ONLY my PC

[Jason White via luv-main]

On 31/7/23 17:22, piers via luv-main wrote:
- There are no log entries on the server for my connections + all 
other users are fine


- All users on the internal network have no issues, only me

- Thunderbird, Other email program, Outlook on Windows VM all fail to 
connect to MY server GMAIL is fine from my PC


If you set up a long-running ping from the client to the server, do you 
encounter significant packet loss? I would suggest starting at that level.


The next step, I suppose, would be to obtain debugging output from an 
IMAP client to find out whether it's the TCP connection, or TLS 
(assuming it's connecting over TLS), or IMAP itself.


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Email (SMTP+IMAP) Not working on ONLY my PC

[piers via luv-main]

Hi there,

- There are no log entries on the server for my connections + all other 
users are fine


- All users on the internal network have no issues, only me

- Thunderbird, Other email program, Outlook on Windows VM all fail to 
connect to MY server GMAIL is fine from my PC


- Some days (now rarely) it "just works" like normal but now I'm forced 
to use web mail until fixed across 3 accounts which is a PITA


Any ideas where to debug this? This has to be local (no improvement if I 
turn off the firewall, no settings on the router) but both native Ubuntu 
and the VM can't do email.?!?!?!


Your help is appreciated.

Thanks

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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Rohan McLeod via luv-main]

Brian May via luv-main wrote:

Rohan McLeod via luv-main  writes:


Are we just accumulating fixes for a system which needs to be
fundamentally redesigned ?

To be fair, designing an open end to end system without spam/scams is
not an eaasy task.

But I think it is well recognised that there is a lot of obvious
limitations in how email works. Not having end-to-end encryption for
private emails as a standard/required feature comes to mind.

I think if Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc, really wanted to we could have
end-to-end encryption on emails. Even if it required new web browser
standards. But so far they haven't shown any interest.


Brian good to hear from you

/start rant
Luv-Main's subject matter is of course Linux relevant subject matter and 
the individual's involved are looking
at email problems from the point of view of system administrators and 
domain managers. But the vast majority of
users of email out there have no support and when email glitches occur 
and don't seem fixable;  they move on to other social

media ; which I am not sure is such a desirable outcome !
Perhaps the future will bring regulation and standardisation of the 
digital frontier;

which thus far seems more like some Libertarian Anarchist Wet Dream !
/end rant :-)

regards Rohan McLeod
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Brian May via luv-main]

Rohan McLeod via luv-main  writes:

> Are we just accumulating fixes for a system which needs to be 
> fundamentally redesigned ?

To be fair, designing an open end to end system without spam/scams is
not an eaasy task.

But I think it is well recognised that there is a lot of obvious
limitations in how email works. Not having end-to-end encryption for
private emails as a standard/required feature comes to mind.

I think if Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc, really wanted to we could have
end-to-end encryption on emails. Even if it required new web browser
standards. But so far they haven't shown any interest.
-- 
Brian May @ Linux Penguins
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for that link to the testing tool, with help here on LUV I 
managed to get some email improvement. I still have issues with 2 email 
accounts.

I decided to run the tool, and to my horror my setup is only 37% OK.

 IPV6 is required for a start and although MelbourneIT are hosting the 
domain my email is managed elsewhere.


Thanks for your suggestion, I can now measure each step to success.

Andrew

On 29/5/23 09:04, Jason White wrote:


On 28/5/23 03:01, Rohan McLeod via luv-main wrote:
Andrew my impression of the  bad email situation is that somehow the 
technical   fixes   are themselves the problems;


I have found the testing tool at internet.nl to e useful in making 
sure that SPF, DKIM, DMARC, DNSSec and DANE are all configured 
properly. My mail server receives a 100% score - or, at least, it did 
when I last ran the test.

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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Hi Tony
Reading the conversation with Andrew McGlashan, I logged in again and 
made the change. Buoyed by earlier success I ran the dig command but the 
change has not yet been performed. The TXT entry is accurate, however.


On 28/5/23 19:34, Tony White via luv-main wrote:

Hi Andrew,
Correct, the spf record should have a hard fail not the soft fail. So 
change

the ~all to -all. I missed it, my bad.
The short TTL is, just that, short to ensure we can catch errors. They do
happen. When they are all set correctly update the TTL to another value.
Thank you for noticing the soft fail.


regards
Anthony White

On 28/5/23 18:58, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:

Hi,

On 28/5/23 5:29 pm, Tony White via luv-main wrote:
> Hi Andrew, Login to your Registrar site ie Melbourne IT and look 
for Manage your Domain. Open this and look for CPanel

> Console. Once there find Zone Manager, Zone Records or Zone Editor.

> Add a new record to your Zone. Look for TXT record. Leave the 
domain empty select TXT from the drop down list. In the

> filed to its right insert the value

> -- snip --- v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all -- end snip --

NOO!

Please be sure about what the rule should be a dn do a hard fail if 
it isn't met correctly with "-all" at the end of the

TXT record.

It sure seems that SPF, DKIM and DMARC have become necessary because 
of all the bad actors around these days.


Running mail servers today means dealing with a significant amount of 
rubbish and mostly because the "world" isn't using
SPF definitions properly and respecting the rules set.  My servers 
strike hard on email that fails SPF, now, at long last,

Google is finally doing that.

It is very sad that we need these "extras", but they are there for 
good reason; work with them and you'll have much better
ability for delivery of emails -- fail to work with them and more 
will fail to deliver.


One thing I hate about DKIM though, is that it only applies to emails 
leaving a server, destined for a different server;

that is, same server to same server emails don't get signed :(
  - I wonder if that is the case with Google mail server to Google 
mail server too; I don't know.


> change the TTL value to 3600 then save.

Why so short for TTL?  If you are confident that you have the 
settings correct after testing, then the TTL should be at

least 86400 (a day).

> The DNS will be updated in an hour or so.

Seems to be quick these days, but delays can still occur.

> To check it is done use the following command in the cli.

> dig TXT algphoto.com.au (press enter)

> you should see something like this...

> algphoto.com.au 3400 IN TXT "v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all"

> If little of this makes sense I apologise. I can help you remotely 
if you would like.


When you think you have the settings right, send an email to the 
following address to get a report:


check-a...@verifier.port25.com

Have a short TTL (600 perhaps, 10 minutes), until you are sure you 
have everything setup correctly.


btw SPF is most often broken with the mass mailers and those 
responsible for the domain name can't get the simple things
right.  Stop using big tech, or, at the very least, use it properly.  
Avoiding SPAM and other rubbish from Google, Outlook
and AmazonSES is neigh on impossible as the bad guys often do a 
better job of setting up SPF, DKIM and DMARC than the vast
majority of domain administrators!  I could go on about service 
providers, so many allow so much rubbish to traverse their

networks, it is a real problem.

> regards Anthony White


Cheers
AndrewM
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an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Jason White via luv-main]

On 28/5/23 03:01, Rohan McLeod via luv-main wrote:
Andrew my impression of the  bad email situation is that somehow the 
technical   fixes   are themselves the problems;


I have found the testing tool at internet.nl to e useful in making sure 
that SPF, DKIM, DMARC, DNSSec and DANE are all configured properly. My 
mail server receives a 100% score - or, at least, it did when I last ran 
the test.

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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 05:29:13PM +1000, Tony White wrote:
> Add a new record to your Zone. Look for TXT record.  Leave the
> domain empty select TXT from the drop down list.  In the filed
> to its right insert the value
>
> -- snip ---
> v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all
> -- end snip --

That should be "-all", not "~all" (a minus sign, not a tilde).

Also, while that IP address is correct for mail.algphoto.com.au (which is the
MX for the domain, so is the designated address for the server **receiving**
mail for that domain), it's not necessarily the IP address of the client host
sending the email.  The SPF TXT record should list **ALL** addresses that can
legitimately claim to be sending mail from the algphoto.com.au domain.

If mail from algphoto.com.au is only ever sent from 203.170.84.161 then that
SPF TXT record is fine.  If not, either configure client machines to relay
through that server (with appropriate authentication as required) or add other
required addresses to the SPF record.

> change the TTL value to 3600 then save.
>
> The DNS will be updated in an hour or so.

No, it won't.  The zone will be updated as soon as it has been edited.  Other
DNS resolvers may have your some of your records cached due to prior queries,
and it will take time (whatever's left of the TTL since the last query was
made) for those cached entries to expire.

Changing the TTL will only affect lookup requests by DNS resolvers that
haven't already cached any of your DNS records.

Setting the TTL to anything less than a day (86400 seconds) or half a day is
not recommended for normal operation.  This will just make other servers query
your domain more often, defeating the purpose of a cache.

A fairly common procedure when making significant changes to a domain is to
set the TTL to a low value, say 5 minutes, *before* changing it, then waiting
for the old TTL to expire (e.g. if it was set to 86400, you'll need to change
the TTL at least a day before your changing your domain), and then make the
changes.  Later, set it back to 86400 or longer.  This is really only needed
when moving your NS or MX hosts, or when moving to another ISP (if you don't
own your own IP addresses).

Or just go ahead and edit your domain and don't worry about the TTL (for
changing an SPF record, I wouldn't worry about it).  The only real use for
lowering the TTL is to make it easier for you to quickly fix any mistakes you
might make, as they won't be cached for long.

Worth noting: the cache TTL for NXDOMAIN negative responses (i.e. when
requesting a record that does not exist) is usually much shorter than the TTL
for a positive response, typically anywhere from 30 seconds to 15 minutes,
rather than a day.  So if the domain didn't previously have a TXT record, it
won't be cached for long anyway.


Also note that many DNS resolvers completely ignore domain TTLs and just
cache the records (positive or negative or both) for however long they want,
sometimes days or even weeks.  This is broken but unfortunately common.
It's also arguable that whoever owns those DNS servers have every right to
configure the caching on their servers however they like.  There's nothing you
can do about it, anyway, because the caching happens on servers you have no
access to or control over.

craig

--
craig sanders 
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Dear Tony,
I Logged in and changed my password (altered from a pass phrase as they 
do not allow spaces) and fished around, came across the manage field and 
installed the text.

5 minutes later I issued the dig command and was rewarded with a result.

Thanks very much

Andrew

On 28/5/23 17:31, Tony White via luv-main wrote:

Andrew,
  This explanation may be better for you.

https://support.melbourneit.au/s/article/How-do-I-create-TXT-SPF-Records

My offer of help still stands though.


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 17:10, Andrew Greig via luv-main wrote:

Thanks  Tony,
I have been on this mailing list since 2003, but only as a user, not a sys
admin, how do I create an SPF record and what do I do with it? Please.

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 17:05 Tony White via luv-main,
wrote:


Hi,
   Nic is correct add an SPF txt record and gmail will
be happy again.

dig txt algphoto.com.au

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.18-Ubuntu <<>> txt algphoto.com.au
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45699
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;algphoto.com.au.INTXT

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
algphoto.com.au.3600INSOAns1.melbourneit.net.
admin.melbourneit.net. 2018121411 86400 7200 360 172800

;; Query time: 49 msec
;; SERVER: 10.2.1.253#53(10.2.1.253)
;; WHEN: Sun May 28 17:00:37 AEST 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 105


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 16:56, Nic Baxter via luv-main wrote:

Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't authenticate 
the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may be a new 
requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main  
  wrote:

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.

For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to a 
gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
common user (like me)


Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Authentication 
Required. Learn more athttps://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify that 
your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.

And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
  : 550 This mail is 
unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient:rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
[27.111.89.56]. The sender should 
visithttps://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for 
instructions
on setting up authentication.
z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
command)


  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Tony White via luv-main]

Hi Andrew,
Correct, the spf record should have a hard fail not the soft fail. So change
the ~all to -all. I missed it, my bad.
The short TTL is, just that, short to ensure we can catch errors. They do
happen. When they are all set correctly update the TTL to another value.
Thank you for noticing the soft fail.


regards
Anthony White

On 28/5/23 18:58, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:

Hi,

On 28/5/23 5:29 pm, Tony White via luv-main wrote:
> Hi Andrew, Login to your Registrar site ie Melbourne IT and look for Manage 
your Domain. Open this and look for CPanel
> Console. Once there find Zone Manager, Zone Records or Zone Editor.

> Add a new record to your Zone. Look for TXT record. Leave the domain empty 
select TXT from the drop down list. In the
> filed to its right insert the value

> -- snip --- v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all -- end snip --

NOO!

Please be sure about what the rule should be a dn do a hard fail if it isn't met 
correctly with "-all" at the end of the
TXT record.

It sure seems that SPF, DKIM and DMARC have become necessary because of all the 
bad actors around these days.

Running mail servers today means dealing with a significant amount of rubbish and mostly 
because the "world" isn't using
SPF definitions properly and respecting the rules set.  My servers strike hard 
on email that fails SPF, now, at long last,
Google is finally doing that.

It is very sad that we need these "extras", but they are there for good reason; 
work with them and you'll have much better
ability for delivery of emails -- fail to work with them and more will fail to 
deliver.

One thing I hate about DKIM though, is that it only applies to emails leaving a 
server, destined for a different server;
that is, same server to same server emails don't get signed :(
  - I wonder if that is the case with Google mail server to Google mail server 
too; I don't know.

> change the TTL value to 3600 then save.

Why so short for TTL?  If you are confident that you have the settings correct 
after testing, then the TTL should be at
least 86400 (a day).

> The DNS will be updated in an hour or so.

Seems to be quick these days, but delays can still occur.

> To check it is done use the following command in the cli.

> dig TXT algphoto.com.au (press enter)

> you should see something like this...

> algphoto.com.au 3400 IN TXT "v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all"

> If little of this makes sense I apologise. I can help you remotely if you 
would like.

When you think you have the settings right, send an email to the following 
address to get a report:

check-a...@verifier.port25.com

Have a short TTL (600 perhaps, 10 minutes), until you are sure you have 
everything setup correctly.

btw SPF is most often broken with the mass mailers and those responsible for 
the domain name can't get the simple things
right.  Stop using big tech, or, at the very least, use it properly.  Avoiding 
SPAM and other rubbish from Google, Outlook
and AmazonSES is neigh on impossible as the bad guys often do a better job of 
setting up SPF, DKIM and DMARC than the vast
majority of domain administrators!  I could go on about service providers, so 
many allow so much rubbish to traverse their
networks, it is a real problem.

> regards Anthony White


Cheers
AndrewM
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

On 28/5/23 5:29 pm, Tony White via luv-main wrote:
> Hi Andrew, Login to your Registrar site ie Melbourne IT and look for Manage 
> your Domain. Open this and look for CPanel
> Console. Once there find Zone Manager, Zone Records or Zone Editor.
>
> Add a new record to your Zone. Look for TXT record. Leave the domain empty 
> select TXT from the drop down list. In the
> filed to its right insert the value
>
> -- snip --- v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all -- end snip --

NOO!

Please be sure about what the rule should be a dn do a hard fail if it isn't 
met correctly with "-all" at the end of the
TXT record.

It sure seems that SPF, DKIM and DMARC have become necessary because of all the 
bad actors around these days.

Running mail servers today means dealing with a significant amount of rubbish 
and mostly because the "world" isn't using
SPF definitions properly and respecting the rules set.  My servers strike hard 
on email that fails SPF, now, at long last,
Google is finally doing that.

It is very sad that we need these "extras", but they are there for good reason; 
work with them and you'll have much better
ability for delivery of emails -- fail to work with them and more will fail to 
deliver.

One thing I hate about DKIM though, is that it only applies to emails leaving a 
server, destined for a different server;
that is, same server to same server emails don't get signed :(
  - I wonder if that is the case with Google mail server to Google mail server 
too; I don't know.

> change the TTL value to 3600 then save.

Why so short for TTL?  If you are confident that you have the settings correct 
after testing, then the TTL should be at
least 86400 (a day).

> The DNS will be updated in an hour or so.

Seems to be quick these days, but delays can still occur.

> To check it is done use the following command in the cli.
>
> dig TXT algphoto.com.au (press enter)
>
> you should see something like this...
>
> algphoto.com.au 3400 IN TXT "v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all"
>
> If little of this makes sense I apologise. I can help you remotely if you 
> would like.

When you think you have the settings right, send an email to the following 
address to get a report:

check-a...@verifier.port25.com

Have a short TTL (600 perhaps, 10 minutes), until you are sure you have 
everything setup correctly.

btw SPF is most often broken with the mass mailers and those responsible for 
the domain name can't get the simple things
right.  Stop using big tech, or, at the very least, use it properly.  Avoiding 
SPAM and other rubbish from Google, Outlook
and AmazonSES is neigh on impossible as the bad guys often do a better job of 
setting up SPF, DKIM and DMARC than the vast
majority of domain administrators!  I could go on about service providers, so 
many allow so much rubbish to traverse their
networks, it is a real problem.

> regards Anthony White


Cheers
AndrewM
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Tony White via luv-main]

Andrew,
  This explanation may be better for you.

https://support.melbourneit.au/s/article/How-do-I-create-TXT-SPF-Records

My offer of help still stands though.


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 17:10, Andrew Greig via luv-main wrote:


Thanks  Tony,
I have been on this mailing list since 2003, but only as a user, not a sys
admin, how do I create an SPF record and what do I do with it? Please.

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 17:05 Tony White via luv-main,
wrote:


Hi,
   Nic is correct add an SPF txt record and gmail will
be happy again.

dig txt algphoto.com.au

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.18-Ubuntu <<>> txt algphoto.com.au
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45699
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;algphoto.com.au.INTXT

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
algphoto.com.au.3600INSOAns1.melbourneit.net.
admin.melbourneit.net. 2018121411 86400 7200 360 172800

;; Query time: 49 msec
;; SERVER: 10.2.1.253#53(10.2.1.253)
;; WHEN: Sun May 28 17:00:37 AEST 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 105


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 16:56, Nic Baxter via luv-main wrote:

Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't authenticate 
the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may be a new 
requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main  
  wrote:

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.

For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to a 
gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
common user (like me)


Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Authentication 
Required. Learn more athttps://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify that 
your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.

And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
  : 550 This mail is 
unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient:rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
[27.111.89.56]. The sender should 
visithttps://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for 
instructions
on setting up authentication.
z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
command)


  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Tony White via luv-main]

Hi Andrew,
  Login to your Registrar site ie Melbourne IT and look for
Manage your Domain. Open this and look for CPanel Console.
Once there find Zone Manager, Zone Records or Zone Editor.

Add a new record to your Zone. Look for TXT record.
Leave the domain empty select TXT from the drop down list.
In the filed to its right insert the value

-- snip ---
v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all
-- end snip --

change the TTL value to 3600 then save.

The DNS will be updated in an hour or so.

To check it is done use the following command in the cli.

dig TXT algphoto.com.au (press enter)

you should see something like this...

algphoto.com.au 3400 IN TXT "v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all"

If little of this makes sense I apologise. I can help you remotely
if you would like.



regards
Anthony White

Greig via luv-main wrote:


Thanks  Tony,
I have been on this mailing list since 2003, but only as a user, not a sys
admin, how do I create an SPF record and what do I do with it? Please.

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 17:05 Tony White via luv-main,
wrote:


Hi,
   Nic is correct add an SPF txt record and gmail will
be happy again.

dig txt algphoto.com.au

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.18-Ubuntu <<>> txt algphoto.com.au
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45699
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;algphoto.com.au.INTXT

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
algphoto.com.au.3600INSOAns1.melbourneit.net.
admin.melbourneit.net. 2018121411 86400 7200 360 172800

;; Query time: 49 msec
;; SERVER: 10.2.1.253#53(10.2.1.253)
;; WHEN: Sun May 28 17:00:37 AEST 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 105


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 16:56, Nic Baxter via luv-main wrote:

Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't authenticate 
the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may be a new 
requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main  
  wrote:

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.

For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to a 
gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
common user (like me)


Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Authentication 
Required. Learn more athttps://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify that 
your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.

And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
  : 550 This mail is 
unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient:rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
[27.111.89.56]. The sender should 
visithttps://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for 
instructions
on setting up authentication.
z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
command)


  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Thanks  Tony,
I have been on this mailing list since 2003, but only as a user, not a sys
admin, how do I create an SPF record and what do I do with it? Please.

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 17:05 Tony White via luv-main, 
wrote:

> Hi,
>   Nic is correct add an SPF txt record and gmail will
> be happy again.
>
> dig txt algphoto.com.au
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.18-Ubuntu <<>> txt algphoto.com.au
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45699
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
>
> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;algphoto.com.au.INTXT
>
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> algphoto.com.au.3600INSOAns1.melbourneit.net.
> admin.melbourneit.net. 2018121411 86400 7200 360 172800
>
> ;; Query time: 49 msec
> ;; SERVER: 10.2.1.253#53(10.2.1.253)
> ;; WHEN: Sun May 28 17:00:37 AEST 2023
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 105
>
>
> regards
> Anthony White
> On 28/5/23 16:56, Nic Baxter via luv-main wrote:
>
> Andrew
> Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't 
> authenticate the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may 
> be a new requirement.
> Cheers
> Nic
>
> On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main 
>   wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
> few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
> authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.
>
> For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
> Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to 
> a gmail address.
> Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
> the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
> common user (like me)
>
>
> Sending of the message failed.
> An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: 
> Authentication Required. Learn more 
> athttps://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
> d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify 
> that your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.
>
> And another version:
>
> This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
> Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
> recipients.
> The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
>  : 550 This mail is 
> unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
>
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
> Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
> Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
> X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.7.26
> Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
> security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
> must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
> checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
> [27.111.89.56]. The sender should 
> visithttps://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for 
> instructions
> on setting up authentication.
> z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
> command)
>
>
>  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
> Let me know how much you need
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Tony White via luv-main]

Hi Andrew,
  Add the value from below to your
TXT record in your dns zone.

*Type:*TXT
*Host/Name:*algphoto.com.au
*
Value:*v=spf1 ip4:203.170.84.161 ~all

regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 17:04, Andrew Greig via luv-main wrote:


Thanks Nic,
My problem was I can't figure out the DKIM stuff, or do I need to approach
the people who handle my domain?

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 16:56 Nic Baxter,  wrote:


Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't
authenticate the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This
may be a new requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the
past few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.

For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.
Google Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail
address to a gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end
of the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand
not a common user (like me)


Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
Authentication Required. Learn more at
  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify
that your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.

And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
  : 550 This mail is 
unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient: rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
  security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
  must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
  checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
  [27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for instructions
  on setting up authentication.
  z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
  command)


  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need





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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Tony White via luv-main]

Hi,
  Nic is correct add an SPF txt record and gmail will
be happy again.

dig txt algphoto.com.au

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.18-Ubuntu <<>> txt algphoto.com.au
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 45699
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;algphoto.com.au.        IN    TXT

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
algphoto.com.au.    3600    IN    SOA    ns1.melbourneit.net. 
admin.melbourneit.net. 2018121411 86400 7200 360 172800

;; Query time: 49 msec
;; SERVER: 10.2.1.253#53(10.2.1.253)
;; WHEN: Sun May 28 17:00:37 AEST 2023
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 105


regards
Anthony White
On 28/5/23 16:56, Nic Baxter via luv-main wrote:


Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't authenticate 
the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may be a new 
requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main  
wrote:

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.

For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to a 
gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
common user (like me)


Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Authentication 
Required. Learn more at
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError  
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify that 
your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.

And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:

: 550 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a 
security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient:rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
[27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication   for instructions
on setting up authentication.
z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
command)


  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Thanks Nic,
My problem was I can't figure out the DKIM stuff, or do I need to approach
the people who handle my domain?

Kind regards

On Sun, 28 May 2023, 16:56 Nic Baxter,  wrote:

> Andrew
> Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't
> authenticate the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This
> may be a new requirement.
> Cheers
> Nic
>
> On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main <
> luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the
>> past few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as
>> authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.
>>
>> For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.
>> Google Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail
>> address to a gmail address.
>> Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end
>> of the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand
>> not a common user (like me)
>>
>>
>> Sending of the message failed.
>> An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
>> Authentication Required. Learn more at
>>  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError
>> d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify
>> that your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.
>>
>> And another version:
>>
>> This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>>
>> Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
>> recipients.
>> The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
>>  : 550 This mail is 
>> unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the
>>
>>
>> Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
>> Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
>> Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
>> X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc
>>
>> Final-Recipient: rfc822; argilderdal...@gmail.com
>> Action: failed
>> Status: 5.7.26
>> Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
>>  security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The 
>> sender
>>  must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
>>  checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with 
>> ip:
>>  [27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
>>  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for instructions
>>  on setting up authentication.
>>  z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to 
>> EOD
>>  command)
>>
>>
>>  There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
>> Let me know how much you need
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Rohan McLeod via luv-main]

Andrew my impression of the  bad email situation is that somehow the 
technical   fixes   are themselves the problems;
email is an an ancient internet functionality that was never designed 
with all the sculduggery in mind.
Are we just accumulating fixes for a system which needs to be 
fundamentally redesigned ?


regards Rohan McLeod

Andrew Greig via luv-main wrote:


Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over 
the past few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is 
noted as authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.


For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  
Google Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a 
gmail address to a gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the 
end of the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys 
adminand not a common user (like me)



Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: 
Authentication Required. Learn more at
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please 
verify that your email address is correct in your account settings and 
try again.


And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:

: 550 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a 
security risk to the

Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient: rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
  security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
  must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
  checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
  [27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for instructions
  on setting up authentication.
  z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
  command)

 There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need



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Re: Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Nic Baxter via luv-main]

Andrew
Quick glance. You are sending from algphoto.com.au and Gmail won't authenticate 
the emails without SPF or DKIM configured and working. This may be a new 
requirement.
Cheers
Nic

On 28 May 2023 4:24:20 pm AEST, Andrew Greig via luv-main  
wrote:
>Hi all
>
>I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the past 
>few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
>authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.
>
>For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  Google 
>Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a gmail address to 
>a gmail address.
>Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the end of 
>the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys adminand not a 
>common user (like me)
>
>
>Sending of the message failed.
>An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: 
>Authentication Required. Learn more at
>https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
>d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please verify 
>that your email address is correct in your account settings and try again.
>
>And another version:
>
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
>Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
>recipients.
>The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:
>
>: 550 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a 
>security risk to the
>
>
>Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
>Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
>Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
>X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc
>
>Final-Recipient: rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.7.26
>Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
>Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
> security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
> must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
> checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
> [27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for instructions
> on setting up authentication.
> z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
> command)
>
>
> There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
>Let me know how much you need
>
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Email accounts which I have used for years are now bouncing mail

[Andrew Greig via luv-main]

Hi all

I have using several email addresses for several years now but over the 
past few months my mails are being bounced. My email address is noted as 
authenticated but my message is described as unsafe.


For goodness sake, I am just arranging the details of an appointment.  
Google Meeting request never gets through any more. and that from a 
gmail address to a gmail address.
Strangely, the email works from this server. The error message at the 
end of the link feels like it is intended to be decyphered by a sys 
adminand not a common user (like me)



Sending of the message failed.
An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: 
Authentication Required. Learn more at
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=WantAuthError 
d7-20020a170902cec700b001a52974700dsm5743554plg.174 - gsmtp. Please 
verify that your email address is correct in your account settings and 
try again.


And another version:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

Sorry, the message you're trying to send cannot be delivered to one or more 
recipients.
The address may be invalid or mistyped. Please view the error below:

: 550 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a 
security risk to the


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail-1k-r77.ipv4.per01.ds.network
Received-from-MTA: dns; cp-wc92.per01.ds.network (185.184.155.89)
Arrival-Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 13:36:32 +0800
X-Original-ID: 9a76e031-fd19-11ed-9f34-d094665788dc

Final-Recipient: rfc822;argilderdal...@gmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.26
Remote-MTA: dns; gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.251.12.27)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a
 security risk to the sender and Gmail users, and has been blocked. The sender
 must authenticate with at least one of SPF or DKIM. For this message, DKIM
 checks did not pass and SPF check for [algphoto.com.au] did not pass with ip:
 [27.111.89.56]. The sender should visit
 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  for instructions
 on setting up authentication.
 z13-20020aa79f8d00b0063f1582c50bsi7743488pfr.338 - gsmtp (in reply to EOD
 command)


 There is more but it may reveal too much for the intended receiver.
Let me know how much you need

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IPv4 email

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

For a few days the LUV mail server hadn't been accepting mail via IPv4.  As my 
monitoring scripts were run from IPv6 connected systems and the mail server 
hosting my personal mail is on IPv6 I hadn't noticed it.  Thanks Brian May for 
reporting this.

I've fixed it and have started work on improving my monitoring scripts.  I now 
have SSL certificates checked on all IP addresses (both IPv4 and IPv6) of the 
DNS names and I've uploaded a package to Debian/Unstable with that (not worth 
a regular release yet).  The IMAP checks will be a little more complex and the 
basic SMTP checks should be easy enough.  Hopefully by the end of the weekend 
all likely combinations of this sort of thing will be monitored and the source 
uploaded.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Duncan Roe via luv-main]

On Thu, Mar 05, 2020 at 01:03:23AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 11:50:08 AM AEDT Duncan Roe via luv-main wrote:
> > Ok I'll still come
>
> What happened in the end?

4 of us went to (a longer than usual) dinner
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 11:50:08 AM AEDT Duncan Roe via luv-main wrote:
> Ok I'll still come

What happened in the end?

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Duncan Roe via luv-main]

Ok I'll still come

Cheers ... Duncan.

On Tue, Mar 03, 2020 at 11:36:22AM +1100, Andrew Worsley wrote:
> I'm ok with it if you are.
> Anyone else?
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 2020, 11:28 am Duncan Roe via luv-main, 
> wrote:
>
> > Just re-read the web site and it's advertising LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
> >
> > So maybe there is not a meeting tonight after all.
> >
> > Shall we just turn up for an early dinner?
> >
> > Cheers ... Duncan.
> > On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 01:17:22PM +1100, luv-main wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I
> > haven't seen
> > > the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6
> > for the
> > > workshop
> > >
> > > Cheers ... Duncan.
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Andrew Worsley via luv-main]

I'm ok with it if you are.
Anyone else?

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020, 11:28 am Duncan Roe via luv-main, 
wrote:

> Just re-read the web site and it's advertising LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
>
> So maybe there is not a meeting tonight after all.
>
> Shall we just turn up for an early dinner?
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.
> On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 01:17:22PM +1100, luv-main wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I
> haven't seen
> > the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6
> for the
> > workshop
> >
> > Cheers ... Duncan.
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Duncan Roe via luv-main]

Just re-read the web site and it's advertising LAST MONTH'S MEETING.

So maybe there is not a meeting tonight after all.

Shall we just turn up for an early dinner?

Cheers ... Duncan.
On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 01:17:22PM +1100, luv-main wrote:
> Hi,
>
> https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I haven't seen
> the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6 for the
> workshop
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Andrew Worsley via luv-main]

Ok see you there with my half bottle of wine...

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020, 8:49 am Duncan Roe via luv-main, 
wrote:

> Yes, I'm going
>
> On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 06:33:00PM +1100, luv-main wrote:
> > Yep I don't know if there is anything going on tomorrow. If your going I
> > can turn up and who ever is there can go for dinner?
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Mar 2020, 1:17 pm Duncan Roe via luv-main, <
> luv-main@luv.asn.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I
> haven't
> > > seen
> > > the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6
> for
> > > the
> > > workshop
> > >
> > > Cheers ... Duncan.
> ___
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>
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Duncan Roe via luv-main]

Yes, I'm going

On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 06:33:00PM +1100, luv-main wrote:
> Yep I don't know if there is anything going on tomorrow. If your going I
> can turn up and who ever is there can go for dinner?
>
> On Mon, 2 Mar 2020, 1:17 pm Duncan Roe via luv-main, 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I haven't
> > seen
> > the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6 for
> > the
> > workshop
> >
> > Cheers ... Duncan.
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Re: No luv-announce email again

[Andrew Worsley via luv-main]

Yep I don't know if there is anything going on tomorrow. If your going I
can turn up and who ever is there can go for dinner?

On Mon, 2 Mar 2020, 1:17 pm Duncan Roe via luv-main, 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I haven't
> seen
> the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6 for
> the
> workshop
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.
> ___
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>
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No luv-announce email again

[Duncan Roe via luv-main]

Hi,

https://luv.asn.au/ shows there is a meeting tomorrow night but I haven't seen
the usual(?) luv-announce email for it. I did get the email sent Feb 6 for the
workshop

Cheers ... Duncan.
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Erik Christiansen via luv-main]

On 27.01.18 08:02, Rick Moen via luv-main wrote:
> The absolute best e-mail client is mutt.  The best _graphical_ e-mail
> client is mutt in an xterm.  ;->

+1

After moving to it around the turn of the millennium, any incentive to
look at anything else vanished, and has not resurfaced. With fetchmail
bringing the mail in, and procmail distributing to half a dozen inboxes,
I'm tonight going through (some of) 1400+ emails after a few days away.
Procmail filtering has diverted 379 of low interest, and mutt presents
the remaining sorted inboxes in priority order.

And in mutt, any mail worth keeping is saved into 1261 archive mailboxes
(as of this instant), so that a grep of one or two words is targeted
within a small subject area.

OK, it is best to let all the 1400 come in before digging into a thread,
but there's almost always a few emails in the first-presented mailbox
which are not list traffic, so won't have replies. No confusion will
result from dealing with them while fetchmail brings in the rest. So I'm
not aware of the time it takes for them to come in, and don't wee why
that would be an issue. (And certainly has nothing to do with my MUA.)

Erik
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Michael Pope via luv-main]

On 29/01/18 09:58, Graeme Cross via luv-main wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018, at 1:49 AM, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:
>>
>> On 26/01/18 19:39, Anthony via luv-main wrote:
>>> Is Thunderbird getting active development these days (did I misread
>>> awhile back it'd been knda orphaned at some stage?)
>> Yes, sadly TB doesn't get anywhere near the love it deserves.  I can't
>> understand why so many people are so happy to use Lookout (as an MUA and
>> via web) or Gmail -- don't they care at all about privacy and seucrity?
>>
>> I think that TB was "almost" orphaned, but it hasn't been; still it is
>> not getting much real support from Mozilla whom seem to care only about
>> their 57+ browser
> Mozilla hired developers for Thunderbird last year and are continuing to hire:
>
>> These four staff members are just the beginning. The project is currently in 
>> the process of 
>> hiring developers to address some technical debt, fix some sore points in 
>> the software and 
>> transition the codebase from a mix of C++, JavaScript, XUL and XPCOM to be 
>> increasingly based
>> on web technologies.
> https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/2017/12/new-thunderbird-releases-and-new-thunderbird-staff/
>
> https://twitter.com/mozthunderbird
>
> Regards,
> Graeme
> ___
>
I gave geary a go with gmail accounts and it was really fast. It doesn't
have as many features as Thunderbird though.

from
Michael
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Graeme Cross via luv-main]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018, at 1:49 AM, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:
> 
> 
> On 26/01/18 19:39, Anthony via luv-main wrote:
> > Is Thunderbird getting active development these days (did I misread
> > awhile back it'd been knda orphaned at some stage?)
> 
> Yes, sadly TB doesn't get anywhere near the love it deserves.  I can't
> understand why so many people are so happy to use Lookout (as an MUA and
> via web) or Gmail -- don't they care at all about privacy and seucrity?
> 
> I think that TB was "almost" orphaned, but it hasn't been; still it is
> not getting much real support from Mozilla whom seem to care only about
> their 57+ browser

Mozilla hired developers for Thunderbird last year and are continuing to hire:

> These four staff members are just the beginning. The project is currently in 
> the process of 
> hiring developers to address some technical debt, fix some sore points in the 
> software and 
> transition the codebase from a mix of C++, JavaScript, XUL and XPCOM to be 
> increasingly based
> on web technologies.

https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/2017/12/new-thunderbird-releases-and-new-thunderbird-staff/

https://twitter.com/mozthunderbird

Regards,
Graeme
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Brian May via luv-main]

Piers Rowan via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:

> We have moved to GMail from our own servers. For good reasons I have 4 
> mailboxes that I use. (At least one of which receives 200 messages per 
> hour with a rule in place to move some of the content into folders).
>
> I am using Thunderbird right now and the performance of GMail vs our 
> Dovecot (Linux IMAP server) is sluggish. In addition mail takes longer 
> to arrive and polling seems to cache old message lists.
>
> Given that we cannot move away from GMail is it a client issue? Is there 
> a better client?

I use notmuch myself. Open source, open API, bindings for different
languages such as Python, many different clients (I generally use the
emacs front end), handles large amounts of emails fast.

The downsides are - doesn't integrate very well with imap. Best results
when you download all emails to a Maildir. This means accessing email
from mobile not great. As a result, need to think carefully about
backing up emails.

Also using a text base mail client I noticed a number of senders will
send emails with different text for text/plain and text/html sections -
very confusing - or - more common - send HTML in text/plain parts.
-- 
Brian May <br...@linuxpenguins.xyz>
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Rick Moen via luv-main]

Quoting Andrew McGlashan (andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au):

> I think that TB was "almost" orphaned, but it hasn't been; still it is
> not getting much real support from Mozilla whom seem to care only about
> their 57+ browser

Firefox gets them revenue.  Thunderbird doesn't.

It's always important to remember who's the customer and what is the
revenue model for any profit-oriented business.  In this case, Mozilla
Corporation makes its revenue primarily from Google, Inc for making 
Firefox & SeaMonkey's default search engine be Google Search, and from
click-through revenlues on advertisements placed on search result pages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

> TB is the absolute best email client and it really needs more love to
> keep it that way.

The absolute best e-mail client is mutt.  The best _graphical_ e-mail
client is mutt in an xterm.  ;->

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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

On 26/01/18 19:39, Anthony via luv-main wrote:
> Is Thunderbird getting active development these days (did I misread
> awhile back it'd been knda orphaned at some stage?)

Yes, sadly TB doesn't get anywhere near the love it deserves.  I can't
understand why so many people are so happy to use Lookout (as an MUA and
via web) or Gmail -- don't they care at all about privacy and seucrity?

I think that TB was "almost" orphaned, but it hasn't been; still it is
not getting much real support from Mozilla whom seem to care only about
their 57+ browser

> I dunno, it feels like MUAs haven't been getting a lot of love of late.

TB is the absolute best email client and it really needs more love to
keep it that way.

Cheers
A.
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Anthony via luv-main]

I've found Google Apps sluggish when it comes to bulk actions. Even using
its own tools to migrate from Exchange, it's slow.

I admit, more and more I've stopped using a local MUA and switched to using
the web interface a lot of the time. When I have had need to grab old
user's emails and roll them into a "past employee's mailbox", it's been
sloow and I've left it running in a background process, and had to do a
couple of passes to ensure that all the emails were captured.

Would be curious to see, however, what people do suggest for an MUA these
days..
I mean, Outlook SUCKS BADLY for IMAP (want to purge the download cache?
Delete the account and add it again :-/) and GSSMO has "Personality"..
Evolution was horrible when I looked at it last (maybe it's improved?) and
scattered files throughout the filesystem..
Sylpheed is very low-fi and only single threaded..
Is Thunderbird getting active development these days (did I misread awhile
back it'd been knda orphaned at some stage?)

I dunno, it feels like MUAs haven't been getting a lot of love of late.

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Rohan McLeod via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

> Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:
>
>> Hi there!
>>
>> We have moved to GMail from our own servers. For good reasons I have 4
>> mailboxes that I use. (At least one of which receives 200 messages per hour
>> with a rule in place to move some of the content into folders).
>>
>> I am using Thunderbird right now and the performance of GMail vs our
>> Dovecot (Linux IMAP server) is sluggish. In addition mail takes longer to
>> arrive and polling seems to cache old message lists.
>>
>> Given that we cannot move away from GMail is it a client issue? Is there
>> a better client?
>>
>
> Promises to be an interesting discussion! :-)
>
> regards Rohan Mcleod
>
> ---
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> http://www.avg.com
>
>
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Re: GMail + Email Client

[Rohan McLeod via luv-main]

Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:

Hi there!

We have moved to GMail from our own servers. For good reasons I have 4 
mailboxes that I use. (At least one of which receives 200 messages per 
hour with a rule in place to move some of the content into folders).


I am using Thunderbird right now and the performance of GMail vs our 
Dovecot (Linux IMAP server) is sluggish. In addition mail takes longer 
to arrive and polling seems to cache old message lists.


Given that we cannot move away from GMail is it a client issue? Is 
there a better client?


Promises to be an interesting discussion! :-)

regards Rohan Mcleod

---
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GMail + Email Client

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

Hi there!

We have moved to GMail from our own servers. For good reasons I have 4 
mailboxes that I use. (At least one of which receives 200 messages per 
hour with a rule in place to move some of the content into folders).


I am using Thunderbird right now and the performance of GMail vs our 
Dovecot (Linux IMAP server) is sluggish. In addition mail takes longer 
to arrive and polling seems to cache old message lists.


Given that we cannot move away from GMail is it a client issue? Is there 
a better client?


Any feedback welcomed.

Have a great day.

P
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 3:54:34 PM AEDT Paul van den Bergen via luv-main 
wrote:
> spot price means if you get out bid partway through your hour, you lose
> that VM and anything running on it (I think there is an option to dump to a
> s3 bucket or some such - but regardless)

Some time ago we had a LUV lecture about using Amazon as part of a HPC system.  
The idea was to take advantage of spot prices and similar deals to get a lower 
cost for the work done than owning systems, espectially for the case of 
systems that aren't busy 365 days a year.

Maybe we should track down the speaker and ask if they want to reprise that 
talk?  Ongoing changes in costs of ownership and costs of EC2 as well as 
changes to the types of jobs run will make some changes to the most effective 
ways of running such things.

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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Paul van den Bergen via luv-main]

hey folks,

because I'm actively reviewing this and my brain is full I made a mistake
in terminology before...

Reserved Instance - a long term VM contract

Dedicated Host - bare metal server

apologies for the confusion


On 3 January 2018 at 15:54, Paul van den Bergen  wrote:

> spot price means if you get out bid partway through your hour, you lose
> that VM and anything running on it (I think there is an option to dump to a
> s3 bucket or some such - but regardless)
>
>
> the price is usually so cheap that it's perfect for throwaway
> computational tasks - hadoop, grid (keep track of the state of your returns
> independantly), etc, and so on. Also, IIUC it only hits you when demand is
> larger than supply.
>
>
> On 3 January 2018 at 15:17, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main <
> luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 03/01/18 09:09, Paul van den Bergen via luv-main wrote:
>> > OK. As of reinvent 2017, AWS introduced bare metal server pricing. As
>> > far as I understand it, if the hardware breaks, you get a new machine,
>> > but it's up to you to manage DR.
>> >
>> > dedicated instances - it's a long term contract for a VM (not a bare
>> > metal machine)
>> >
>> > on demand - you pay per hour.
>>
>> Typically you want a mailserver running 24/7, so about 750 hours every
>> month.
>>
>> > spot price - you pay "bid" for a low priced VM. If someone outbids you,
>> > you lose the VM.
>>
>> Do you mean, you have a box, working... then you get outbid and lose a
>> working box?
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> AndrewM
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr Paul van den Bergen
>
>


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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Paul van den Bergen via luv-main]

spot price means if you get out bid partway through your hour, you lose
that VM and anything running on it (I think there is an option to dump to a
s3 bucket or some such - but regardless)


the price is usually so cheap that it's perfect for throwaway computational
tasks - hadoop, grid (keep track of the state of your returns
independantly), etc, and so on. Also, IIUC it only hits you when demand is
larger than supply.


On 3 January 2018 at 15:17, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03/01/18 09:09, Paul van den Bergen via luv-main wrote:
> > OK. As of reinvent 2017, AWS introduced bare metal server pricing. As
> > far as I understand it, if the hardware breaks, you get a new machine,
> > but it's up to you to manage DR.
> >
> > dedicated instances - it's a long term contract for a VM (not a bare
> > metal machine)
> >
> > on demand - you pay per hour.
>
> Typically you want a mailserver running 24/7, so about 750 hours every
> month.
>
> > spot price - you pay "bid" for a low priced VM. If someone outbids you,
> > you lose the VM.
>
> Do you mean, you have a box, working... then you get outbid and lose a
> working box?
>
> Kind Regards
> AndrewM
>
>
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>


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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

Hi,

On 03/01/18 09:09, Paul van den Bergen via luv-main wrote:
> OK. As of reinvent 2017, AWS introduced bare metal server pricing. As
> far as I understand it, if the hardware breaks, you get a new machine,
> but it's up to you to manage DR.
> 
> dedicated instances - it's a long term contract for a VM (not a bare
> metal machine)
> 
> on demand - you pay per hour.

Typically you want a mailserver running 24/7, so about 750 hours every
month.

> spot price - you pay "bid" for a low priced VM. If someone outbids you,
> you lose the VM.

Do you mean, you have a box, working... then you get outbid and lose a
working box?

Kind Regards
AndrewM



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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Paul van den Bergen via luv-main]

OK. As of reinvent 2017, AWS introduced bare metal server pricing. As far
as I understand it, if the hardware breaks, you get a new machine, but it's
up to you to manage DR.

dedicated instances - it's a long term contract for a VM (not a bare metal
machine)

on demand - you pay per hour.

spot price - you pay "bid" for a low priced VM. If someone outbids you, you
lose the VM.


within that there is a significant amount of options - what type of
HDD/IOPS, licensing (DB's, windows etc - given this is LUV - that may not
be so relevant :-) ), etc.





On 3 January 2018 at 01:15, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

>
>
> On 02/01/18 23:19, Rory Geoghegan via luv-main wrote:
> > We need a Like button!
> > Russel Coker,  for that answer.
>
> True, the message is starred for reference.
>
> Thanks Russel, the information is great.
>
> A.
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

On 02/01/18 23:19, Rory Geoghegan via luv-main wrote:
> We need a Like button! 
> Russel Coker,  for that answer.

True, the message is starred for reference.

Thanks Russel, the information is great.

A.
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Colin Fee via luv-main]

On 2 Jan 2018 5:15 pm, "Brian May via luv-main"  wrote:

Andrew McGlashan via luv-main  writes:

> Okay, the problem pricing may be related to "Amazon EC2 Dedicated
> Instances" ... that seems the closest (from what I can tell), to having
> your own physical server and being able to do with it what you like.
>
> Perhaps this product is way overkill.

If I am reading that correctly, sounds like you get exclusive access to
the hardware. i.e. not a VM. So, probably will cost more.


Correct. In AWS 'dedicated instances' are exclusive access to the hardware,
typically there most expensive option.


Last I looked, the reserved instance stuff was the cheapest. Although
was somewhat confusing for me to understand initially, and I had to
complain to Amazon when their website stuffed things up IIRC, if you
have a reserved instance, then the hourly fees get reduced significantly
(but are still payable). So the total payable is less. I think there
might have been two types of reserved instances, but I have forgotten
this stuff already.


Reserved instances are the cheapest option. They come in full-upfront and
partial-upfront versions and can be bought for 1, 2, or three years.
Full-upfront is the most economical where as the name suggests you pay
fully upfront for the resources you think you will need. There are some
limitations on the elasticity of what you buy and of course if you end up
using less than you paid for you lose out. Last time I talked to our
account manager you can save up to 48% using the right RIs.


Even with the reserved instance, you probably find you will end up
paying more then for an alternative provider. At least that is what I
found several years ago, when I moved to Hetzner instead.

> I also find that all (or too many, if not all) AWS pages are super
> resource hungry and cause performance issues (that is, their website
> pages detailing the products on offer).  This may be due to me using
> Palemoon -- which is a fork of Firefox; I actually use a combination of
> browsers, Firefox [due to how they have changed since version 57 in
> particular], is used much less by myself now.

No argument here.
--
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Rory Geoghegan via luv-main]

We need a Like button!
Russel Coker,  for that answer.

On 2 January 2018 at 19:02, Russell Coker via luv-main 
wrote:

> On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 12:19:26 AM AEDT Andrew McGlashan via luv-main
> wrote:
> > As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
> > pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
> > costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.
> >
> > Then, you pay per hour for the running machine and you pay again (even
> > if only a little) for storage.
>
> For a mail server you want an "elastic IP", that is an IP address that's
> permanently reserved for you.  It's free while you have an instance using
> it
> and you pay a reservation fee whenever you aren't using it (which is almost
> never for a mail server).
>
> > To me, self-hosting a mail server makes much more sense; so, why would
> > it make sense to set one up as an AWS EC2 instance?  Have I got the
> > figures wrong?  Is that region charge an every month "once off" and then
> > you can have as many servers there as you like?  Even if you pay for
> > every server by the hour plus other costs?
>
> https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver
>
> Linode is generally good.  But in a later message you say you need 200G+ of
> storage.  For that Hetzner has a better offer, E39 per month for a server
> with
> 2*4TB disks.  That has 32G of RAM so it will run ZFS or BTRFS nicely, I've
> run
> ZFS on Hetzner servers before, but I'm using BTRFS now.
>
> > I know they [AWS] have an offer of 1 year free, but that translates to
> > me as a fremium product; you'll pay through the nose after 12 months if
> > you continue to require the service.
>
> No they are actually quite reasonable about that.  But the 1 year of free
> service is for a micro instance (1G of RAM and 5G of S3).  It really won't
> do
> the job for you.
>
> > The only other alternative to self hosting is a VPS, then you are RAM,
> > CPU and storage limited, that is, unless you really pay for a beefed up
> > server, and, of course, that will cost you dearly.
>
> https://www.hetzner.com/sb
>
> No, Hetzner is quite affordable.  If you want something really cheap they
> have
> "Server Bidding" which is a reverse auction.  They have old servers (ones
> that
> previous customers cancelled but which aren't worth throwing out) and
> reduce
> the offered price until someone buys.  Currently the cheapest is E26 per
> month
> for a system with 2*300G of storage and 2G of RAM.  But that's not a great
> deal, another is E31 per month for 2*3TB of storage and 16G of RAM.  That
> would run a nice virtual server.  You could run ZFS/BTRFS in the Dom0 and
> then
> run a few VMs on it.
>
> https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/IP-Adressen/en
>
> Hetzner charges just under E1 per month for extra IP addresses.  If you
> were
> to rent the E31 server and provide VMs to 3 friends then you would be each
> paying E9 per month and getting ~700G of storage and ~3G of RAM.  That's a
> way
> better deal than getting your own Linode instance, but relies on finding
> people to share with you.
>
> As an aside the LUV VM is on a Hetzner server.  The system has 2*256G SSD,
> 2*2TB HDD, and 48G of RAM.  I can't remember the price but I think it was
> something like E35 on Server Bidding which is a great deal if you want some
> fast storage for VM images as well as some big storage for large files.
>
> --
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> My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/
>
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 12:19:26 AM AEDT Andrew McGlashan via luv-main 
wrote:
> As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
> pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
> costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.
> 
> Then, you pay per hour for the running machine and you pay again (even
> if only a little) for storage.

For a mail server you want an "elastic IP", that is an IP address that's 
permanently reserved for you.  It's free while you have an instance using it 
and you pay a reservation fee whenever you aren't using it (which is almost 
never for a mail server).

> To me, self-hosting a mail server makes much more sense; so, why would
> it make sense to set one up as an AWS EC2 instance?  Have I got the
> figures wrong?  Is that region charge an every month "once off" and then
> you can have as many servers there as you like?  Even if you pay for
> every server by the hour plus other costs?

https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver

Linode is generally good.  But in a later message you say you need 200G+ of 
storage.  For that Hetzner has a better offer, E39 per month for a server with 
2*4TB disks.  That has 32G of RAM so it will run ZFS or BTRFS nicely, I've run 
ZFS on Hetzner servers before, but I'm using BTRFS now.

> I know they [AWS] have an offer of 1 year free, but that translates to
> me as a fremium product; you'll pay through the nose after 12 months if
> you continue to require the service.

No they are actually quite reasonable about that.  But the 1 year of free 
service is for a micro instance (1G of RAM and 5G of S3).  It really won't do 
the job for you.

> The only other alternative to self hosting is a VPS, then you are RAM,
> CPU and storage limited, that is, unless you really pay for a beefed up
> server, and, of course, that will cost you dearly.

https://www.hetzner.com/sb

No, Hetzner is quite affordable.  If you want something really cheap they have 
"Server Bidding" which is a reverse auction.  They have old servers (ones that 
previous customers cancelled but which aren't worth throwing out) and reduce 
the offered price until someone buys.  Currently the cheapest is E26 per month 
for a system with 2*300G of storage and 2G of RAM.  But that's not a great 
deal, another is E31 per month for 2*3TB of storage and 16G of RAM.  That 
would run a nice virtual server.  You could run ZFS/BTRFS in the Dom0 and then 
run a few VMs on it.

https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/IP-Adressen/en

Hetzner charges just under E1 per month for extra IP addresses.  If you were 
to rent the E31 server and provide VMs to 3 friends then you would be each 
paying E9 per month and getting ~700G of storage and ~3G of RAM.  That's a way 
better deal than getting your own Linode instance, but relies on finding 
people to share with you.

As an aside the LUV VM is on a Hetzner server.  The system has 2*256G SSD, 
2*2TB HDD, and 48G of RAM.  I can't remember the price but I think it was 
something like E35 on Server Bidding which is a great deal if you want some 
fast storage for VM images as well as some big storage for large files.

-- 
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My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Brian May via luv-main]

Andrew McGlashan via luv-main  writes:

> Okay, the problem pricing may be related to "Amazon EC2 Dedicated
> Instances" ... that seems the closest (from what I can tell), to having
> your own physical server and being able to do with it what you like.
>
> Perhaps this product is way overkill.

If I am reading that correctly, sounds like you get exclusive access to
the hardware. i.e. not a VM. So, probably will cost more.

Last I looked, the reserved instance stuff was the cheapest. Although
was somewhat confusing for me to understand initially, and I had to
complain to Amazon when their website stuffed things up IIRC, if you
have a reserved instance, then the hourly fees get reduced significantly
(but are still payable). So the total payable is less. I think there
might have been two types of reserved instances, but I have forgotten
this stuff already.

Even with the reserved instance, you probably find you will end up
paying more then for an alternative provider. At least that is what I
found several years ago, when I moved to Hetzner instead.

> I also find that all (or too many, if not all) AWS pages are super
> resource hungry and cause performance issues (that is, their website
> pages detailing the products on offer).  This may be due to me using
> Palemoon -- which is a fork of Firefox; I actually use a combination of
> browsers, Firefox [due to how they have changed since version 57 in
> particular], is used much less by myself now.

No argument here.
-- 
Brian May 
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

Hi Manoj,

On 02/01/18 09:47, Manoj C Menon via luv-main wrote:
> A server hosted on Amazon EC2 can cost significantly lesser than the
> $1500 you've arrived at. 

Okay.

> For example, around 4 servers I manage costs us around ~350AU$ a year.
> (You can use this page to estimate the cost.
> http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html)

The calculator seems to need Firefox for me, it's not loading properly
in Palemoon.

> In addition to that Amazon now has introduced a new product called
> Lightsail for requirements such as yours. (See
> https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/)

The storage limits/options with lightsail seem to be an issue, some of
the user's Maildir folders are quite excessive as too many people
send/receive very large attachments and keep them in folders long term.

There is currently close to 200GB of data storage used in the Maildir
folders.

So, unless the folders can be significantly culled, 80GB wouldn't be enough.


> Then there is of-course Linode, Digital Ocean, Vultr ...

Yes, I still contend that full self-hosting is likely to be the best
option, aside from the "push everything to the cloud" mantra/talk that
some people feel greatly obliged to follow at any cost.

Thanks
A.



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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

On 02/01/18 09:47, Brian May via luv-main wrote:
> Andrew McGlashan via luv-main  writes:
> 
>> As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
>> pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
>> costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.
> 
> Where did you get this information from? I am not familiar with this
> fee. Nor can I find anything about it:
> 
> https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/

Okay, the problem pricing may be related to "Amazon EC2 Dedicated
Instances" ... that seems the closest (from what I can tell), to having
your own physical server and being able to do with it what you like.

Perhaps this product is way overkill.

https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/purchasing-options/dedicated-instances/


Pricing

Pay only for what you use with no long-term commitments. Dedicated
Instance pricing has two components: (1) an hourly per instance usage
fee and (2) a dedicated per region fee (note that you pay this once per
hour regardless of how many Dedicated Instances you're running).

Dedicated Per Region Fee

$2 per hour - An additional fee is charged once per hour in which at
least one Dedicated Instance of any type is running in a region.


This region fee, $2 per hour, approx. 750 hours per month, so about $1,500.

I also find that all (or too many, if not all) AWS pages are super
resource hungry and cause performance issues (that is, their website
pages detailing the products on offer).  This may be due to me using
Palemoon -- which is a fork of Firefox; I actually use a combination of
browsers, Firefox [due to how they have changed since version 57 in
particular], is used much less by myself now.

-- 
Kind Regards
AndrewM



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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Manoj C Menon via luv-main]

Hi Andrew,

A server hosted on Amazon EC2 can cost significantly lesser than the $1500
you've arrived at.

For example, around 4 servers I manage costs us around ~350AU$ a year. (You
can use this page to estimate the cost.
http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html)

In addition to that Amazon now has introduced a new product called
Lightsail for requirements such as yours. (See
https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/)

Then there is of-course Linode, Digital Ocean, Vultr ...

-Manoj.C

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

> Hi Guys/Gals,
>
> As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
> pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
> costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.
>
> Then, you pay per hour for the running machine and you pay again (even
> if only a little) for storage.
>
> To me, self-hosting a mail server makes much more sense; so, why would
> it make sense to set one up as an AWS EC2 instance?  Have I got the
> figures wrong?  Is that region charge an every month "once off" and then
> you can have as many servers there as you like?  Even if you pay for
> every server by the hour plus other costs?
>
> I know they [AWS] have an offer of 1 year free, but that translates to
> me as a fremium product; you'll pay through the nose after 12 months if
> you continue to require the service.
>
> The only other alternative to self hosting is a VPS, then you are RAM,
> CPU and storage limited, that is, unless you really pay for a beefed up
> server, and, of course, that will cost you dearly.
>
> A cheap self hosted server on a good connection should suffice for email
> better than any other option.  I've ran a mail server on a DSL
> connection for many years now, it has been improved by an HFC NBN
> connection for me, but it worked okay on DSL even if it wasn't ideal.
>
> There is one other option, but I really loath that choice.  That is to
> use Google Apps or some other hosted service, just for email -- the only
> advantage I see is the level of storage available.  But it comes at a
> cost of not being able to fully manage the server and the logs and
> almost everything else that you have with a hosted service; that is, you
> lose an awful lot of control.  And then, if you increase user mailboxes,
> your costs go up every time.
>
> I'm talking about using one or more domain names for email services and
> not using LookOut (outlook.com), Gmail or any other hosted email.
>
> What am I missing?  Why do people choose hosted services with all the
> costs and the negatives?  It makes no sense to me, but one client is
> agitating to remove their very, very low cost server that I mange on
> their behalf.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Thanks and Kind Regards
> AndrewM
>
>
>
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Re: AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Brian May via luv-main]

Andrew McGlashan via luv-main  writes:

> As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
> pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
> costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.

Where did you get this information from? I am not familiar with this
fee. Nor can I find anything about it:

https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/
-- 
Brian May 
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
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AWC EC2 queries vs self hosting and other options for a email services

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

Hi Guys/Gals,

As I understand it, if you want to host an AWS EC2 server, you need to
pay a "region" price for access to a region; it is my belief that it
costs roughly $1500 per month, not sure if that is already in AUD or not.

Then, you pay per hour for the running machine and you pay again (even
if only a little) for storage.

To me, self-hosting a mail server makes much more sense; so, why would
it make sense to set one up as an AWS EC2 instance?  Have I got the
figures wrong?  Is that region charge an every month "once off" and then
you can have as many servers there as you like?  Even if you pay for
every server by the hour plus other costs?

I know they [AWS] have an offer of 1 year free, but that translates to
me as a fremium product; you'll pay through the nose after 12 months if
you continue to require the service.

The only other alternative to self hosting is a VPS, then you are RAM,
CPU and storage limited, that is, unless you really pay for a beefed up
server, and, of course, that will cost you dearly.

A cheap self hosted server on a good connection should suffice for email
better than any other option.  I've ran a mail server on a DSL
connection for many years now, it has been improved by an HFC NBN
connection for me, but it worked okay on DSL even if it wasn't ideal.

There is one other option, but I really loath that choice.  That is to
use Google Apps or some other hosted service, just for email -- the only
advantage I see is the level of storage available.  But it comes at a
cost of not being able to fully manage the server and the logs and
almost everything else that you have with a hosted service; that is, you
lose an awful lot of control.  And then, if you increase user mailboxes,
your costs go up every time.

I'm talking about using one or more domain names for email services and
not using LookOut (outlook.com), Gmail or any other hosted email.

What am I missing?  Why do people choose hosted services with all the
costs and the negatives?  It makes no sense to me, but one client is
agitating to remove their very, very low cost server that I mange on
their behalf.

Your thoughts?

Thanks and Kind Regards
AndrewM




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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Jason White via luv-main]

Brian May via luv-main  wrote:
 
> It is possible to use IMAP in exactly the same way you use POP. There is
> no requirement that keep the emails on the server after you have
> downloaded them.

If I remember rightly, keeping the messages on the server is not the default
in Fetchmail, for example - you have to specify the "keep" option if you want
to prevent the mail from being automatically deleted from the folders on the
server.

So, perhaps Fetchmail's default behaviour would be the desired result in this
case.

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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Brian May via luv-main]

Ray via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:

> Now I only use email when I have to, I do not regard it as a reliable 
> method of communication, but from the little I know about pop3 and 
> imap.On general principle I do not like to store my own material 
> on a system outside of my control. I also ONLY use email from a single 
> system and have absolutely NO DESIRE for ANY kind of remote access of 
> email. I still have email I received from 10 years ago, it makes 
> interesting reading on what I was up to then.

It is possible to use IMAP in exactly the same way you use POP. There is
no requirement that keep the emails on the server after you have
downloaded them.
-- 
Brian May <br...@linuxpenguins.xyz>
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Ray via luv-main]

On 19.12.2016 16:09, Ray via luv-main wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to
download email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this
since they were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a
constant email address that does not change every time I need to
change ISP's.
Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some
question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use
of pop3.

Lindsay

BTW best wishs's to all.
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Many thanks for the replies, I will give Fastmail a crack, a couple of 
points.


I do not actually like the internet much as a medium of communication, 
inspite of living in a remote location. It is handy though for digging 
up certain types of information. I find it quite easy to stump it on a 
quite a few subjects I am interested in (old machinery being one).


I have absolutely no desire to have to setup and look after my own 
domain. I also do not find the minimal sum Fastmail charges as any real 
kind of burden, One defintely does know where one stands though.


Thanks again,
Lindsay
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Ray via luv-main]

On 19.12.2016 16:53, Russell Coker wrote:

On Monday, 19 December 2016 4:09:59 PM AEDT Ray via luv-main wrote:
I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to 
download

email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they
were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant
email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some
question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use 
of

pop3.


Why do you want to use POP3?  You can use Fetchmail and several other 
mail

copying systems with IMAP.


Now I only use email when I have to, I do not regard it as a reliable 
method of communication, but from the little I know about pop3 and 
imap.On general principle I do not like to store my own material 
on a system outside of my control. I also ONLY use email from a single 
system and have absolutely NO DESIRE for ANY kind of remote access of 
email. I still have email I received from 10 years ago, it makes 
interesting reading on what I was up to then.


Man thanks for the reply,
Lindsay
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Monday, 19 December 2016 4:09:59 PM AEDT Ray via luv-main wrote:
> I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to download 
> email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they 
> were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant 
> email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
> Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some 
> question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use of 
> pop3.

Why do you want to use POP3?  You can use Fetchmail and several other mail 
copying systems with IMAP.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Ben Nisenbaum via luv-main]

Fastmail have been excellent for me for years now. I changed to them
after having a lot of trouble logging into gmail, especially when I was
in NZ.

ben

-- 
  
  b...@fastmail.fm

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016, at 06:44 PM, Stewart Smith via luv-main wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016, at 04:09 PM, Ray via luv-main wrote:
> > I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to download 
> > email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they 
> > were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant 
> > email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
> > Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some 
> > question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use of 
> > pop3.
> 
> I've recently started using FastMail - for various reasons, many of 
> which are ease of use, friendliness towards free software and being
> based in Melbourne.
> 
> You can use their web UI, or grab mail via POP or IMAP.
> 
> The way I have things set up is that there's a cache of recent mail on
> their servers (so I can use web or phone apps) and I also sync
> everything to local disk, purging old mail from server.
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Paul van den Bergen via luv-main]

I know the people @ fastmail - personal bias... I'd recommend them because
I know the competence of the individuals involved, and have heard some of
the war stories...

https://blog.fastmail.com/

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Stewart Smith via luv-main <
luv-main@luv.asn.au> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016, at 04:09 PM, Ray via luv-main wrote:
> > I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to download
> > email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they
> > were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant
> > email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
> > Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some
> > question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use of
> > pop3.
>
> I've recently started using FastMail - for various reasons, many of
> which are ease of use, friendliness towards free software and being
> based in Melbourne.
>
> You can use their web UI, or grab mail via POP or IMAP.
>
> The way I have things set up is that there's a cache of recent mail on
> their servers (so I can use web or phone apps) and I also sync
> everything to local disk, purging old mail from server.
> ___
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> https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-main
>



-- 
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Stewart Smith via luv-main]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016, at 04:09 PM, Ray via luv-main wrote:
> I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to download 
> email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they 
> were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant 
> email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
> Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some 
> question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use of 
> pop3.

I've recently started using FastMail - for various reasons, many of 
which are ease of use, friendliness towards free software and being
based in Melbourne.

You can use their web UI, or grab mail via POP or IMAP.

The way I have things set up is that there's a cache of recent mail on
their servers (so I can use web or phone apps) and I also sync
everything to local disk, purging old mail from server.
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Re: pop3 email service provider

[Rohan McLeod via luv-main]

Ray via luv-main wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to
> download email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this
> since they were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a
> constant email address that does not change every time I need to
> change ISP's.
> Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some
> question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use
> of pop3.

Not sure about pop3; but I gave up on  Gmail (also google-drive etc) in
disgust;
 when I discovered they wouldn't let me logon;
with out knowing my IP address
... I believe Hotmail and Yahoo are much the same !
For 'semi-anonymous' , free email (mostly commercial stuff);
I now use :https://www.vfemail.net where I am "mclrhn at vfemail dot net";
which is accessible via TOR

regards Rohan McLeod


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pop3 email service provider

[Ray via luv-main]

Hi all,

I am looking for an email service provider which offers pop3 to download 
email to a local machine. Mcmedia no longer providing this since they 
were bought by Bendigo telco I would also like this to be a constant 
email address that does not change every time I need to change ISP's.
Privacy is also something of an issue and there seems to be some 
question on this issue with Gmail which I believe does allow the use of 
pop3.


Lindsay

BTW best wishs's to all.
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Re: Email Clients

[Erik Christiansen via luv-main]

On 01.03.16 21:33, Rick Moen via luv-main wrote:
> Quoting Brian May (br...@linuxpenguins.xyz):
> 
> > You might want to look at notmuch. It works well storing all your email
> > in Maildir, with a number of different clients.
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> Just in case it will be of interest in case people are eyeballing one's
> choices in MUAs, my site offer page 'MUAs' on
> http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/ .
> 
> Please let me know if I missed any.

Nah. Mutt's there, so there's little left to miss.

Erik
(Who switched to it about 20 years ago, has been as happy as a pig in a
pumpkin patch ever since, and is far too restrained to comment on the
fact that it's those GUI MUAs which more often evoke complaints.)
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Re: Email Clients

[Rick Moen via luv-main]

Quoting Brian May (br...@linuxpenguins.xyz):

> You might want to look at notmuch. It works well storing all your email
> in Maildir, with a number of different clients.

Good idea.

Just in case it will be of interest in case people are eyeballing one's
choices in MUAs, my site offer page 'MUAs' on
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/ .

Please let me know if I missed any.

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Re: Email Clients

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

On 02/03/16 10:19, Andrew McGlashan via luv-main wrote:

Odd, does the behaviour of the "Del" key change in this instance?  If
not, why not just use that?



I use DEL and CTRL DEL when I can discard the message based on subject.

The remaining messages are previewed to make a decision on them.

Using the mouse allows me to perform other actions  - like scroll the 
text with the mouse wheel or click a link and move focus to the other 
monitor to interact with the page I just opened.



I've found that the global index is best turned off completely (unless
you have a small email count, then it becomes less useful anyway).  But
the quick filter works very well (k) -- I usually have it
filter by "Sender", "Recipient" and "Subject", leaving "Body" off
deliberately.  In most cases, I can find messages and conversations
quickly and easily by one of the three filters that remains.  Sometimes
I turn those off selectively, but usually they are always on.



I use these but they don't seem quick - I will look into turning off the 
global index.



I don't use tags, I sometimes "star" messages, but that's all I do to
make it stand out.



I use stars to keep things at the top of the list and tags to highlight 
things




- Plugins

I am sure there is a (valid) comeback that there "is a plugin for that
already" or "write your own" [you flatter me :-] but I would like to
think that the core of an email client should cover off:

Agreed, but some plugins are very useful and the ones that I prefer,
well, let me know if you want me to elaborate.




Thanks for the list/reply

Cheers

P

Plugins okay, the most useful I find are these:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/close-tab-on-esc/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/display-mail-user-agent/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/hide-local-folders/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mailredirect/?src=search
   (b for the win, bounces emails, can bcc yourself if needed)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/resetrec/
   (great for when "ID10TS" want to cc loads of unrelated people)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/show-address-only/
   (increases awareness of spam emails based on real addresses used)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/sortpref/
   (allows me to sort ALL folders on ID easily, date doesn't always
suit for search, nor other collumns)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/threadkey/
(t for thread, u for unthread .. works great, but if I want to
 open a bunch of emails in thread view, I select them first,
 then unthread them, then open them so I get them in the right
 order)

btw I would prefer A to open the add-ons in TB as it does
in Firefox.


Cheers
AndrewM
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Re: Email Clients

[Brian May via luv-main]

Andrew McGlashan via luv-main <luv-main@luv.asn.au> writes:

> Oh and I would really like it if Maildir storage worked.... large email
> storage would make this quite useful.

You might want to look at notmuch. It works well storing all your email
in Maildir, with a number of different clients.
-- 
Brian May <br...@linuxpenguins.xyz>
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
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Re: Email Clients

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

Oh and I would really like it if Maildir storage worked large email
storage would make this quite useful.

Last time I tried it, it gave me all sorts of problems; not sure I want
to try again.  Instead, for IMAP accounts, I generally leave the email
on the server and just download the headers until I need the full body
of the email.

AndrewM
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Re: Email Clients

[Andrew McGlashan via luv-main]

Hi,

On 2/03/2016 10:32 AM, Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:
> I currently use Thunderbird and have used Evolution in the past. I have
> a wish list that I wanted to share with the aim of perhaps finding an
> alternative.
> 
> My criticisms with TB:

Okay, I do have the odd issue with TB, but it is the best I know today
and I don't expect that to change.

I now default to sending HTML emails and use the shift key to modify the
action for text emails (to lists and when HTML makes no sense), works
for writing new emails or replies.

> - Changing the UI
> 
> They added a archive button to some threads and this is on the right of
> the preview pane tool bar. If this does not show then the delete button
> is in that location (as the toolbar aligns to the right). So if you are
> mas deleting email by scanning the pane then the delete button moves
> each time the archive one is shown. This means that you can to move the
> mouse (look / read / think) - rather than just deleting email.

Odd, does the behaviour of the "Del" key change in this instance?  If
not, why not just use that?

> - Searching for everything
> 
> It shouldn't be that difficult to have some indexes for sender, sender
> domain and message prefixes. I would prefer to have a feature to have
> tabs / quick lists rather than search / sort my entire mailbox each time
> I wanted a type of message

I've found that the global index is best turned off completely (unless
you have a small email count, then it becomes less useful anyway).  But
the quick filter works very well (k) -- I usually have it
filter by "Sender", "Recipient" and "Subject", leaving "Body" off
deliberately.  In most cases, I can find messages and conversations
quickly and easily by one of the three filters that remains.  Sometimes
I turn those off selectively, but usually they are always on.

> - Tags
> 
> Highlighting the row in colour is great.but that only happens when
> you have focus on the message - otherwise the text only is a different
> colour.  This means if you have a moderate use of tags then you end up
> with unicorn vomit rainbow text and have to drill down on each message
> to see the colour of it - which defeats the point of MAKE SURE YOU DO
> THIS THING IN BOLD RED tags.

I don't use tags, I sometimes "star" messages, but that's all I do to
make it stand out.

> - Plugins
> 
> I am sure there is a (valid) comeback that there "is a plugin for that
> already" or "write your own" [you flatter me :-] but I would like to
> think that the core of an email client should cover off:

Agreed, but some plugins are very useful and the ones that I prefer,
well, let me know if you want me to elaborate.

> - Email
> - Inbox filters/views/colour tags
> - Consistent UI
> - Tasks & Diary
> 
> ...as core and not as plugins.

;-)

The other unfortunate thing about TB is that Mozilla doesn't give it
enough love and continually "threatens" to drop support of it due to
"other priorities"  :( :( :(

> I get a lot of email across several accounts and perhaps I am being
> picky. I am interested in hearing if others have similar / opposing
> feedback and recommendations of configurations / plugins or applications
> that addresses these issues.

Plugins okay, the most useful I find are these:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/close-tab-on-esc/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/display-mail-user-agent/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/hide-local-folders/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mailredirect/?src=search
  (b for the win, bounces emails, can bcc yourself if needed)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/resetrec/
  (great for when "ID10TS" want to cc loads of unrelated people)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/show-address-only/
  (increases awareness of spam emails based on real addresses used)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/sortpref/
  (allows me to sort ALL folders on ID easily, date doesn't always
   suit for search, nor other collumns)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/threadkey/
   (t for thread, u for unthread .. works great, but if I want to
open a bunch of emails in thread view, I select them first,
then unthread them, then open them so I get them in the right
order)

btw I would prefer A to open the add-ons in TB as it does
in Firefox.


Cheers
AndrewM
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Email Clients

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

Hi there,

I currently use Thunderbird and have used Evolution in the past. I have 
a wish list that I wanted to share with the aim of perhaps finding an 
alternative.


My criticisms with TB:

- Changing the UI

They added a archive button to some threads and this is on the right of 
the preview pane tool bar. If this does not show then the delete button 
is in that location (as the toolbar aligns to the right). So if you are 
mas deleting email by scanning the pane then the delete button moves 
each time the archive one is shown. This means that you can to move the 
mouse (look / read / think) - rather than just deleting email.


- Searching for everything

It shouldn't be that difficult to have some indexes for sender, sender 
domain and message prefixes. I would prefer to have a feature to have 
tabs / quick lists rather than search / sort my entire mailbox each time 
I wanted a type of message


- Tags

Highlighting the row in colour is great.but that only happens when 
you have focus on the message - otherwise the text only is a different 
colour.  This means if you have a moderate use of tags then you end up 
with unicorn vomit rainbow text and have to drill down on each message 
to see the colour of it - which defeats the point of MAKE SURE YOU DO 
THIS THING IN BOLD RED tags.


- Plugins

I am sure there is a (valid) comeback that there "is a plugin for that 
already" or "write your own" [you flatter me :-] but I would like to 
think that the core of an email client should cover off:


- Email
- Inbox filters/views/colour tags
- Consistent UI
- Tasks & Diary

...as core and not as plugins.

I get a lot of email across several accounts and perhaps I am being 
picky. I am interested in hearing if others have similar / opposing 
feedback and recommendations of configurations / plugins or applications 
that addresses these issues.


Cheers

Piers
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Re: Email clients [Was: No networking and no MATE]

[Andrew Pam via luv-main]

On 02/01/16 22:51, David Zuccaro via luv-main wrote:
> Sorry about the bad formatting; I usually do better with that. I'm using
> thunderbird and still trying to get my head around how it quotes. What
> you see is not what you get. Evolution had a plain text option which I
> find more straightforward to format. I might move back to that.

You can also set Thunderbird to use plain text.

Cheers,
Andrew
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Email clients [Was: No networking and no MATE]

[David Zuccaro via luv-main]

On 02/01/16 22:39, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:

On Sat, Jan 02, 2016 at 09:59:27PM +1100, David Zuccaro wrote:


Thanks once again Craig and Brian I owe you a beer!

i can't drink beer (i only just got a kidney, transplanted on Dec 7 -
and don't want to put it at risk by re-acquiring an alcohol habit) but
if you want to repay the favour, please add a blank line before your
replies to quoted text. and another blank line before the next slab of
quoting. and break up long paragraphs into multiple short paragraphs
(where it makes sense to do so).

it's really hard to read your replies because it's hard to tell where
the quote ends and your reply starts.

blank space is free and makes things much more readable.

craig




Sorry about the bad formatting; I usually do better with that. I'm using 
thunderbird and still trying to get my head around how it quotes. What 
you see is not what you get. Evolution had a plain text option which I 
find more straightforward to format. I might move back to that.




Regards,

David


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Re: Upgrading email server

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 20/03/2015 12:48 AM, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
 (OK I know.. no one should use Outlook!! But too many ppl still do!)

Sorry, I've just got to say that is so sadly true; I call it LookOut!
... and that is for ANY version of that product.


Lots of potentially interesting results here for you though:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=dovecot+outlook+2007

Cheers
A.

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Re: Upgrading email server

[Daniel Jitnah]

On 20/03/15 05:24, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
 On 20/03/2015 12:48 AM, Daniel Jitnah wrote:
 (OK I know.. no one should use Outlook!! But too many ppl still do!)
 Sorry, I've just got to say that is so sadly true; I call it LookOut!
 ... and that is for ANY version of that product.
Actually Outlook 2003 works fine.


 Lots of potentially interesting results here for you though:

 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=dovecot+outlook+2007
Thanks, but Google search has already shown more problems than solutions
from people!

Although there is one suggested solution.  But that involves registry
hack on Windows.  That is not a practical solution because the system is
used by many users who are either remotely located or travelling a lot. 
To expect them make the changes themselves is not reasonable

Daniel.

 Cheers
 A.

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Re: Upgrading email server

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Daniel Jitnah (djit...@greenwareit.com.au):

 Although there is one suggested solution.  But that involves registry
 hack on Windows.  That is not a practical solution because the system is
 used by many users who are either remotely located or travelling a lot. 
 To expect them make the changes themselves is not reasonable

Well, I am aware that you've probably already considered this idea and
just don't like it overmuch, but maybe 2015 is the year you should
retire POP3 and migrate to IMAP4.  Um, few people haven't.  ;-

-- 
Cheers,The boisterous sea of liberty indeed is never
Rick Moen  without a wave.
r...@linuxmafia.com   -- Jefferson to Lafayette, 1820
McQ! (4x80)
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mailing list servers bouncing email

[Russell Coker]

It's a common configuration to have non-member posts to a mailing list be 
rejected.  It seems that most list servers run from /etc/aliases or similar 
which means that mail has already been accepted by the time the list server 
sees it.

Once mail has been accepted (SMTP code 250) it can be sent on, discarded, or a 
bounce message can be sent.  In the case of spam (which often accounts for 
most non-member mail to a list) we don't want to generate a bounce message as 
that hurts innocent third parties.  But in the case of members who send mail 
from their wrong address we want to inform them.

Ideally a non-member post to a mailing list would get a SMTP level rejection 
(SMTP code 55x).  When a real person sent the mail they get a bounce message 
and can re-send if appropriate, if a spam bot sent the mail then it gets 
discarded.

http://postfwd.org/

What's the best way of getting it to work that way?  I'm idly considering 
writing a script to take the list of members from Mailman and automatically 
generating a Postfwd configuration from it, the above URL describes Postfwd.

One benefit of using Postfwd in that manner could be that anyone who subscribes 
to one list could be allowed to send mail to all lists on the same server, it 
doesn't have to be that way (Postfwd is configurable and generating more rules 
isn't difficult) but it seems like a good idea.  The Mailman controls seem to 
only control posting access based on the membership of the list in question.

-- 
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My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: mailing list servers bouncing email

[Jeremy Visser]

On 6/05/2014 17:11, Russell Coker wrote:
 Ideally a non-member post to a mailing list would get a SMTP level rejection
 (SMTP code 55x).

Isn't this something you should be bringing up on the Mailman mailing 
list as a feature request?

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Re: C library for parsing email addresses

[Les Kitchen]

In reply to trentb...@gmail.com (Trent W. Buck):

 Graeme Cross gcr...@fastmail.fm writes:
...
 I do not believe that is possible.  AFAICT, this ABNF snippet from RFC
 5322 (p12) is irregular:

My formal-language theory is a bit rusty, but, indeed, you can't
recognize context-free languages (having nesting), using regular
expressions (even extended with backreferences, as they usually
are in practice).

-- Smiles, Les.
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Re: C library for parsing email addresses

[Toby Corkindale]

On 6 October 2013 23:01, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote:
 Does anyone know of a good free library for parsing email addresses?
 Preferrably something that's already packaged for Debian.

 I want to have a library sort out the local part, the domain, and the comment
 of an email address.

 I've just discovered a bug in a program which does this.  The fact that the
 program in question has been running for many years (last update was over a
 year ago and the code in question wasn't changed for some time before that)
 and processed probably hundreds of thousands of messages without the bug being
 noticed demonstrates that it's not so easy to get this right.  It seems likely
 that there may be other bugs after I fix this one.  So I'd rather use a
 library to ensure that it's had wider testing before I use it.

This is from a Perl library, but it's by a good author and essentially
is just a bunch of regexes, with some logic around it, so should be
possible to port to C.

http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/RJBS/Email-Address-1.900/lib/Email/Address.pm

or you could embed a Perl interpreter and just run the module directly from C.
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Re: C library for parsing email addresses

[Les Kitchen]

 Does anyone know of a good free library for parsing email addresses?  
 Preferrably something that's already packaged for Debian.

Well the 'ap' program in the nmh package parses address at the
shell level.  Depending on how horrible the nmh code is, there
might be a usable C library behind that.  There's also the
'formail' program in nmh, which has a different purpose, but I
think does some address parsing.

-- Smiles, Les.
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Re: C library for parsing email addresses

[Trent W. Buck]

Graeme Cross gcr...@fastmail.fm writes:

 I can't recommend a library, but I *can* tell you that email addresses
 aren't regular, so a regular expression is wrong.

 Jeffrey Friedl's book Mastering Regular Expressions (O'Reilly) has an
 RFC 822 compliant regular expression in it that is meant to be very
 robust.

I do not believe that is possible.  AFAICT, this ABNF snippet from RFC
5322 (p12) is irregular:

   ccontent=   ctext / quoted-pair / comment
   comment =   ( *([FWS] ccontent) [FWS] )

I glanced at RFC 822 (which is obsolete); it also has a comment
nonterminal, although it's not so obviously recursive.

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Re: C library for parsing email addresses

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 6/10/2013 11:01 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
 Does anyone know of a good free library for parsing email addresses?  
 Preferrably something that's already packaged for Debian.
 
 I want to have a library sort out the local part, the domain, and the comment 
 of an email address.
 
 I've just discovered a bug in a program which does this.  The fact that the 
 program in question has been running for many years (last update was over a 
 year ago and the code in question wasn't changed for some time before that) 
 and processed probably hundreds of thousands of messages without the bug 
 being 
 noticed demonstrates that it's not so easy to get this right.  It seems 
 likely 
 that there may be other bugs after I fix this one.  So I'd rather use a 
 library to ensure that it's had wider testing before I use it.

I think you need to provide more details .

What was the package that you were using?

And at what point do you need to process the data?

Is the data source:
  1. incoming email;
  2. outgoing mail;
  3. Stored mail [what type of storage];
  4. just a plain list of email addresses;
 or something else?

This might get you going:
   A Perl Extensible Mail Filter
   --  http://marginalhacks.com/Hacks/pemf/


Cheers
A.
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Accessing email via dns service

[Rob Rankin]

Hoping someone can throw light on this issue for a Linux newbie.

I'm running Ubuntu Server 12.04LTS and accessing the web via DHCP client 
on a Netgear router/modem.

DNS service is provided through Dyndns.org

Basic website is accompanied by a Moodle site which is the main focus of 
my operation. (support learning and teaching for U3A group)

All features and functions of Moodle are operative however email cannot 
be sent or received. My previous experience with Moodle sites has not 
relied on this DNS service and I have no idea what influence their 
operation has on the handling of email.

If someone is familiar with all the links in this chain I would 
appreciate some explicit advice.

Cheers,
Rob



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Re: Accessing email via dns service

[Jason White]

Rob Rankin rran...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
 
 All features and functions of Moodle are operative however email cannot 
 be sent or received. My previous experience with Moodle sites has not 
 relied on this DNS service and I have no idea what influence their 
 operation has on the handling of email.

Are you sure your ISP isn't blocking port 25, which could effectively prevent
your system from sending or receiving mail directly?

Internode, for example, blocks port 25 by default, but there's an option to
disable this on their Web site.

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Re: Accessing email via dns service

[Russell Coker]

Is this server running on dyndns? If so you have to check that the old data 
isn't being cached.

How is email not working? Can't send to server? Can't receive mail from the 
net? Can't send from server to another server?
-- 
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with K-9 Mail.
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Re: Accessing email via dns service

[Rob Rankin]

On 11/09/2013 4:25 PM, Russell Coker wrote:
 Is this server running on dyndns? If so you have to check that the old data 
 isn't being cached.
Don't understand this question. Server is located in my home with web 
access through dyndns.

 How is email not working? Can't send to server? Can't receive mail from the 
 net? Can't send from server to another server?
Can't send or receive mail from server. Have tried to set up various 
email clients in Ubuntu but without success. Email function in Moodle is 
normally handled by PHP when server has direct web access.

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Re: Accessing email via dns service

[Rob Rankin]

On 11/09/2013 4:21 PM, Jason White wrote:
 Rob Rankin rran...@bigpond.net.au wrote:
   
 All features and functions of Moodle are operative however email cannot
 be sent or received. My previous experience with Moodle sites has not
 relied on this DNS service and I have no idea what influence their
 operation has on the handling of email.
 Are you sure your ISP isn't blocking port 25, which could effectively prevent
 your system from sending or receiving mail directly?

 Internode, for example, blocks port 25 by default, but there's an option to
 disable this on their Web site.

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ISP is Telstra.
Port forwarding in firewall has port 25 (SMTP) open for the server's IP 
address.
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Re: Accessing email via dns service

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 11/09/2013 6:05 PM, Rob Rankin wrote:
 ISP is Telstra.
 Port forwarding in firewall has port 25 (SMTP) open for the server's IP 
 address.

Okay, well unless you have a service that specifically supports you
hosting a mail server, then Telstra will block port 25 incoming for
sure, port forwarding on your modem/router equipment won't help if the
port is blocked at the ISP level (which I would be sure it is).

Secondly, with your DNS, have you setup MX record(s) ?   You need at
least one MX record.

You can also test your domain with this website:

http://mxtoolbox.com/

I am not affiliated in any way with the above site, they have other
testing services too.


Kind Regards
AndrewM

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changing email password via web

[Russell Coker]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/postfixadmin/

I've been using PostfixAdmin for a while to manage multi-domain mail servers.  
I've been using MySQL for the backend although PostfixAdmin also supports 
PostgreSQL (not sure if it did years ago when I first started using it).  As an 
aside I'll consider using PostgreSQL in future although MySQL has been working 
well.

Anyway my problem is that a client wants a web interface to allow users to 
change their own password.  Does anyone know of a good package to do this in a 
way that's compatible with the database store used by PostfixAdmin?

-- 
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My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/
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Email address nonsense, was Re: Debian 7.0.0 dvd's

[Mark Trickett]

Hello Trent,

On Wed, 2013-05-15 at 10:34 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
 Mark Trickett marktrick...@bigpond.com
 writes:
 
  On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 09:42 +1000, Trent W. Buck wrote:
 
  gmail and hotmail also support subaddresses.
  
  I hear gmail also drops dots in the LHS, so x.y.z and xyz and xy.z all
  go to the same account -- this could be leveraged for the same purpose.
 
  And this bites me. There is someone else out there who uses my Gmail
  email address, but with a dot between the first and second names
 
 Indeed; I heard about this because it was used to attack amazon, by
 claiming your object never arrived and asking for it to be resent to
 dead drop instead because you are out of town this week.  Apparently
 amazon doesn't check very hard that you're you.
 
 (I didn't quite understand how that attack works, since it seems to me
 you'd want *amazon* to treat x.y and xy as the same, and gmail to treat
 them as different.  Shrug.)

No, I am complaining that some turkey (being polite) is that they are
trying to use an email address that they do not have access to as their
own, and that it arrives in my inbox. I chose the local part of my
email address with some thought. Someone else beat me to a shorter
version which I use as a local login on my own box, and to some other
not quite so short variants. The email content causes me to scratch my
head for relevance, not gross offence with what has arrived so far.

Regards,

Mark Trickett

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