Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On 2017-08-02, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Master PDF is a PDF editor, not viewer. -> it should be added to PDF editors I an not sure PDF editors are already supported by configure.py, but they can be set via Tools>Preferences. + no interference with PDF viewers - it is not clear how to use this entry. > Meanwhile I contacted the Master PDF devs and indeed the responded > quickly. I reported the problem that an executable name > "masterpdfeditor4" is a problem for use and that we won't spend time to > check the different version numbers. Moreover, on Windows the name of > the executable is just "masterpdfeditor". The will discuss this. > So unless the name of the executable is not uniform on all OSes, I won't > support it. Thus I retract my patch. Fine. > I still think however that we should remove KPDF and KGhostscript. > However as we are in a feature freeze, I would postpone this to LyX 2.4. Fine. Günter
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
El 31.07.2017 a las 19:50, Christian Ridderström escribió: The reason for my reluctance is probably: - Any risk of licensing-related issues, i.e. is Master PDF honouring SW licenses correctly. Please. Since when are we there to judge other software? The user is free to decide what he likes. LyX should just offer to select and detect different PDF viewers. Besides this, we already support Acrobat Reader: Closed source, non-free, special license, its usage is a potential security risk since it tries to put your documents to its cloud... But this is nothing we have to take care of. Users who don't want this, can use something else. --- Meanwhile I contacted the Master PDF devs and indeed the responded quickly. I reported the problem that an executable name "masterpdfeditor4" is a problem for use and that we won't spend time to check the different version numbers. Moreover, on Windows the name of the executable is just "masterpdfeditor". The will discuss this. So unless the name of the executable is not uniform on all OSes, I won't support it. Thus I retract my patch. I still think however that we should remove KPDF and KGhostscript. However as we are in a feature freeze, I would postpone this to LyX 2.4. regards Uwe
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On 31 July 2017 at 19:52, Pavel Sanda wrote: > Kornel Benko wrote: > > > It is not a demo. Only if you want to have all features like e.g. > > > splitting PDF pages one has to buy another version. So it is the same > as > > > with Acrobat Reader, for the full feature set of Acrobat one has to > pay. > I skimmed their manual and read the license section which says: 3. NON-COMMERCIAL USE. You are hereby granted to use this Software for non-commercial purposes without charge for unlimited time on Desktop Linux. Software can also be used for viewing and printing documents on Windows and Mac OS X for unlimited time without any charge. If this is accurate, it might be useful for e.g. academic users of LyX. Regarding licenses... the program is based on Qt, and they ship several Qt libraries -- I just verified this after installing it on my mac. However, the program didn't seem to acknowledge Qt or reference LGPL or GPL, and they e.g. explicitly forbid reverse engineering so unless they've got a commercial Qt license they're likely violating Qt's LGPL. :-( Now, they might have acquired commercial Qt licenses, one per developer, in which case everything could be fine. However, as the Qt licenses aren't cheap, e.g. perhaps $1400/month for three developers, I see a risk that they don't have a commercial license. If we care about this, we could simply ask the company behind the program about their licensing situation. > > Do we really try to promote commercial programs? > > There is free version, with slightly less features, but otherwise if we > support acrobat reader which is not open source either why we could > not support another closed source but free app? > Market dominance is probably the reason to support Acrobat. But it's a good point. /Christian
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
Uwe Stöhr wrote: >> There's one certainty, regardless of the OS: no matter which order you >> specify, /someone/ is going to complain. ;-) > > Yes. So to avoid a discussion about it I have undone the sort order change > in the attached updated patch. Actually you did not. 'masterpdfeditor4' is now preferred before AcroRd32. You really mean that? This is editor, not viewer after all. I don't have strong opinion about having masterpdfeditor in configure.py but as was said before, the fact that they include version name in the executable probably means usability of this check will have very limited time use and we can't have it right in the long term. The first part of the patch is fine. Pavel
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
Kornel Benko wrote: > > It is not a demo. Only if you want to have all features like e.g. > > splitting PDF pages one has to buy another version. So it is the same as > > with Acrobat Reader, for the full feature set of Acrobat one has to pay. > > Do we really try to promote commercial programs? There is free version, with slightly less features, but otherwise if we support acrobat reader which is not open source either why we could not support another closed source but free app? Pavel PS: Out of curiosity I tried it now and was fairly surprised, how _good_ this editor is. It's not the first attempt for pdf editor on Linux, but it's a first one which seems to work just perfectly under my 10 min testing.
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On 30 July 2017 at 23:47, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >Under Linux I was looking for a PDF program with which I can properly > >fill out and submit PDF forms. I found the Program Master PDF editor > >and > >would therefore like to support it in LyX. > > To be frank I never heard of it before today. It seems to be some > commercial program which only can be found as demo. I am not very fond of > promoting such things. > +1 The reason for my reluctance is probably: - Any risk of licensing-related issues, i.e. is Master PDF honouring SW licenses correctly. E.g. I'd feel bad supporting and being associated with a SW that's violating GPL. - Does the program serve commercial ads and could there be anything "risky" for the user related to that. - Might the program be uploading "telemetry" now or in the future? - ? The last two aspects relates to the company's business model now, as well as in the future. Note that I don't know anything about Master PDF, they might be above board (today) when it comes to all of these aspects. Perhaps we should simply ask them (Master PDF) these questions? Best regards, /Christian
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:18:59AM +0200, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > El 30.07.2017 a las 23:47, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes escribió: > > > > would therefore like to support it in LyX. > > > > To be frank I never heard of it before today. It seems to be some > > commercial program which only can be found as demo. I am not very fond of > > promoting such things. > > It is not a demo. Only if you want to have all features like e.g. splitting > PDF pages one has to buy another version. So it is the same as with Acrobat > Reader, for the full feature set of Acrobat one has to pay. > > There are packages for Master PDF in the Debian/Ubuntu and Arch package > system available maybe for other package systems too. > > In general I don't think we should judge programs according to their > business model. LyX does not force to use a program he might not like. If a > user likes a closed source program like Acrobat Reader it is very helpful > that LyX checks for it. I use Master PDF Editor and think it is a good program. I have never paid for it, and have used it quite a bit, without noticing any missing features (I'm not saying there are none, just that I haven't noticed any). Another positive thing for me is that the developers are responsive to feedback (they're available through direct email support). They make frequent releases, and have a detailed change log: https://code-industry.net/what-is-new-in-master-pdf-editor-4/ My initial reservation for including it as a viewer is that it really is meant to be an editor, not a viewer. However, I just opened a multi-page PDF, and I can now see how someone might want to use it as a viewer (even though I would personally still prefer a more simple viewer): it seems smooth and responsive, and has continuous scrolling; and I'm not surprised by Uwe's finding that it has support for some feature that other PDF programs on Linux do not. One thing that annoys me is that the (major) version number of the software is part of the binary's name: masterpdfeditor4. So if we did include it, then when version 5 is released, we would need to add a new entry (or have a policy of only supporting the latest). In conclusion, I have no strong opinion. I just wanted to say that "I have heard of the program and find it to be a respectable program, compared to any other proprietary program I've used". So when making a decision I would summarize it as "should we add a PDF editor that probably not many LyX users are using as a PDF viewer?" I really don't have a good feeling for the cost of checking for another viewer so I don't know how to answer that question myself. I must admit though that I did (after checking on the list) add a relatively unknown PDF reader to configure: mupdf. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 01:22:48AM +0200, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > El 31.07.2017 a las 01:00, Paul A. Rubin escribió: > > > IIRC, the script cycles through the options and stops at the first > > match. (This is true on all operating systems, not just Linux.) If, for > > example, Evince precedes Xreader and the user has both installed, the > > default will become Evince, even though Xreader is the, um, default > > default (the one set by the system when Mint is installed). > > Thanks for the explanation. So as long as the the LyX configure.py script > cannot determine what the current default PDF viewer is on a system cases > like yours cannot be avoided. > > But maybe there is a way to determine this? Maybe our pyhtonists have an > idea? Search for discussions on xdg-open. There have been some discussions in the past about it. Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 07:00:44PM -0400, Paul A. Rubin wrote: > I could make an argument for putting choices not normally > installed ahead of the ones packaged with the operating system (call that > one the system default), on the theory that if the user installed something > other than the system default it might indicate a preference for the > user-installed application. I'm not sure I'd bet money on it, though. Thinking in the same way as you reference, I think this is why I put Okular ahead of Evince. I'm still conflicted about it though (as I sense you are). > There's one certainty, regardless of the OS: no matter which order you > specify, /someone/ is going to complain. ;-) +1 Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
Am Montag, 31. Juli 2017 um 00:18:59, schrieb Uwe Stöhr > El 30.07.2017 a las 23:47, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes escribió: > > >> would therefore like to support it in LyX. > > > > To be frank I never heard of it before today. It seems to be some > > commercial program which only can be found as demo. I am not very fond of > > promoting such things. > > It is not a demo. Only if you want to have all features like e.g. > splitting PDF pages one has to buy another version. So it is the same as > with Acrobat Reader, for the full feature set of Acrobat one has to pay. Do we really try to promote commercial programs? > There are packages for Master PDF in the Debian/Ubuntu and Arch package > system available maybe for other package systems too. > > In general I don't think we should judge programs according to their > business model. LyX does not force to use a program he might not like. > If a user likes a closed source program like Acrobat Reader it is very > helpful that LyX checks for it. > > regards Uwe Kornel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
El 31.07.2017 a las 01:00, Paul A. Rubin escribió:
IIRC, the script cycles through the options and stops at the first
match. (This is true on all operating systems, not just Linux.) If, for
example, Evince precedes Xreader and the user has both installed, the
default will become Evince, even though Xreader is the, um, default
default (the one set by the system when Mint is installed).
Thanks for the explanation. So as long as the the LyX configure.py
script cannot determine what the current default PDF viewer is on a
system cases like yours cannot be avoided.
But maybe there is a way to determine this? Maybe our pyhtonists have an
idea?
There's one certainty, regardless of the OS: no matter which order you
specify, /someone/ is going to complain. ;-)
Yes. So to avoid a discussion about it I have undone the sort order
change in the attached updated patch.
regards Uwe
diff --git
"a/C:\\Users\\Usti\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\TortoiseGit\\configure-accb484.000.py"
"b/D:\\LyXGit\\Master\\lib\\configure.py"
index 8e7fedbb5a..bd75f05c53 100644
---
"a/C:\\Users\\Usti\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\TortoiseGit\\configure-accb484.000.py"
+++ "b/D:\\LyXGit\\Master\\lib\\configure.py"
@@ -675,9 +675,7 @@ def checkFormatEntries(dtl_tools):
#checkProg('a Postscript interpreter', ['gs'],
# rc_entry = [ r'\ps_command "%%"' ])
checkViewer('a Postscript previewer',
-['kghostview', 'okular', 'qpdfview --unique',
- 'evince', 'xreader',
- 'gv', 'ghostview -swap', 'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
+['okular', 'qpdfview --unique', 'evince', 'xreader', 'gv',
'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
rc_entry = [r'''\Format epseps EPS""
"%%" "" "vector""image/x-eps"
\Format eps2 eps"EPS (uncropped)" "" "%%" ""
"vector"""
\Format eps3 eps"EPS (cropped)" "" "%%" ""
"document" ""
@@ -686,10 +684,8 @@ def checkFormatEntries(dtl_tools):
# maybe use "bestApplication()" from
https://github.com/jleclanche/python-mime
# the MIME type is set for pdf6, because that one needs to be
autodetectable by libmime
checkViewer('a PDF previewer',
-['pdfview', 'kpdf', 'okular', 'qpdfview --unique',
- 'evince', 'xreader', 'kghostview', 'xpdf', 'SumatraPDF',
- 'acrobat', 'acroread', 'mupdf',
- 'gv', 'ghostview', 'AcroRd32', 'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
+['pdfview', 'okular', 'qpdfview --unique', 'evince',
'xreader', 'xpdf', 'SumatraPDF', 'acrobat', 'acroread',
+ 'masterpdfeditor4', 'mupdf', 'gv', 'AcroRd32', 'gsview64',
'gsview32'],
rc_entry = [r'''\Format pdfpdf"PDF (ps2pdf)" P
"%%" "" "document,vector,menu=export" ""
\Format pdf2 pdf"PDF (pdflatex)"F "%%" ""
"document,vector,menu=export" ""
\Format pdf3 pdf"PDF (dvipdfm)" m "%%" ""
"document,vector,menu=export" ""
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
On 07/30/2017 06:26 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote: Okular -> qpdfview -> Evince means 2 Qt programs before the first GTK program. I noticed that on popular distros (Mint, Ubuntu, Fedora) Evince is the default viewer. Still true for Fedora and Ubuntu (I think); on Mint, the default viewer is now Xreader. I don#t know enough about Linux if the order is really necessary or not. IIRC, the script cycles through the options and stops at the first match. (This is true on all operating systems, not just Linux.) If, for example, Evince precedes Xreader and the user has both installed, the default will become Evince, even though Xreader is the, um, default default (the one set by the system when Mint is installed). The user can change it, so it's a matter of inconvenience rather than a crucial problem. I could make an argument for putting choices not normally installed ahead of the ones packaged with the operating system (call that one the system default), on the theory that if the user installed something other than the system default it might indicate a preference for the user-installed application. I'm not sure I'd bet money on it, though. There's one certainty, regardless of the OS: no matter which order you specify, /someone/ is going to complain. ;-) Paul
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
El 30.07.2017 a las 22:10, Stephan Witt escribió:
You didn’t mention the change to remove xreader. Did you remove it accidentally?
Oops, sorry. Attached is the correct patch where this is not removed.
Why did you change the order of tested programs?
Okular -> qpdfview -> Evince
means 2 Qt programs before the first GTK program. I noticed that on
popular distros (Mint, Ubuntu, Fedora) Evince is the default viewer.
I don#t know enough about Linux if the order is really necessary or not.
regards Uwe
diff --git
"a/C:\\Users\\Usti\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\TortoiseGit\\configure-97e1ce6.001.py"
"b/D:\\LyXGit\\Master\\lib\\configure.py"
index 8e7fedbb5a..3239e6e997 100644
---
"a/C:\\Users\\Usti\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\TortoiseGit\\configure-97e1ce6.001.py"
+++ "b/D:\\LyXGit\\Master\\lib\\configure.py"
@@ -675,9 +675,7 @@ def checkFormatEntries(dtl_tools):
#checkProg('a Postscript interpreter', ['gs'],
# rc_entry = [ r'\ps_command "%%"' ])
checkViewer('a Postscript previewer',
-['kghostview', 'okular', 'qpdfview --unique',
- 'evince', 'xreader',
- 'gv', 'ghostview -swap', 'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
+['okular', 'evince', 'qpdfview --unique', 'xreader', 'gv',
'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
rc_entry = [r'''\Format epseps EPS""
"%%" "" "vector""image/x-eps"
\Format eps2 eps"EPS (uncropped)" "" "%%" ""
"vector"""
\Format eps3 eps"EPS (cropped)" "" "%%" ""
"document" ""
@@ -686,10 +684,8 @@ def checkFormatEntries(dtl_tools):
# maybe use "bestApplication()" from
https://github.com/jleclanche/python-mime
# the MIME type is set for pdf6, because that one needs to be
autodetectable by libmime
checkViewer('a PDF previewer',
-['pdfview', 'kpdf', 'okular', 'qpdfview --unique',
- 'evince', 'xreader', 'kghostview', 'xpdf', 'SumatraPDF',
- 'acrobat', 'acroread', 'mupdf',
- 'gv', 'ghostview', 'AcroRd32', 'gsview64', 'gsview32'],
+['pdfview', 'okular', 'evince', 'qpdfview --unique',
'xreader', 'xpdf', 'SumatraPDF', 'acrobat', 'acroread',
+ 'masterpdfeditor4', 'mupdf', 'gv', 'AcroRd32', 'gsview64',
'gsview32'],
rc_entry = [r'''\Format pdfpdf"PDF (ps2pdf)" P
"%%" "" "document,vector,menu=export" ""
\Format pdf2 pdf"PDF (pdflatex)"F "%%" ""
"document,vector,menu=export" ""
\Format pdf3 pdf"PDF (dvipdfm)" m "%%" ""
"document,vector,menu=export" ""
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
El 30.07.2017 a las 23:47, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes escribió: would therefore like to support it in LyX. To be frank I never heard of it before today. It seems to be some commercial program which only can be found as demo. I am not very fond of promoting such things. It is not a demo. Only if you want to have all features like e.g. splitting PDF pages one has to buy another version. So it is the same as with Acrobat Reader, for the full feature set of Acrobat one has to pay. There are packages for Master PDF in the Debian/Ubuntu and Arch package system available maybe for other package systems too. In general I don't think we should judge programs according to their business model. LyX does not force to use a program he might not like. If a user likes a closed source program like Acrobat Reader it is very helpful that LyX checks for it. regards Uwe
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
Le 30 juillet 2017 21:51:15 GMT+02:00, "Uwe Stöhr" a écrit : >I reviewed the PDF viewers LyX is searching for. It turned out that the > >last stable version of KGhostView and KPDF were released 9 years ago, >so >I think we could remove their support. Yes, that make sense, or at least put them as low as possible in the list. >Under Linux I was looking for a PDF program with which I can properly >fill out and submit PDF forms. I found the Program Master PDF editor >and >would therefore like to support it in LyX. To be frank I never heard of it before today. It seems to be some commercial program which only can be found as demo. I am not very fond of promoting such things. JMarc
Re: [patch] update PDF viewers in configure.py
Am 30.07.2017 um 21:51 schrieb Uwe Stöhr : > > I reviewed the PDF viewers LyX is searching for. It turned out that the last > stable version of KGhostView and KPDF were released 9 years ago, so I think > we could remove their support. > > Under Linux I was looking for a PDF program with which I can properly fill > out and submit PDF forms. I found the Program Master PDF editor and would > therefore like to support it in LyX. > > I also found out that "ghostview" is deprecated since years and gv, gsview64 > and gsview32 are the replacements (which we already support). > > So the attached patch removes to check for ghostview, KPDF and KGhostView and > adds to check for masterpdfeditor. > > Could this go in or are there any reasons against this? You didn’t mention the change to remove xreader. Did you remove it accidentally? Why did you change the order of tested programs? Stephan > > thanks and regards > Uwe >
