Re: others like lyx?
Perhaps you should get in contact with MacGyver... :-) --- Owen Lucas wrote: I like the open source concept but im still waiting for open hardware. For example CPUs that you can make in your microwave out of sand and a can of tuna
Re: others like lyx?
Perhaps you should get in contact with MacGyver... :-) --- Owen Lucas wrote: I like the open source concept but im still waiting for open hardware. For example CPUs that you can make in your microwave out of sand and a can of tuna
Re: others like lyx?
Perhaps you should get in contact with MacGyver... :-) --- Owen Lucas wrote: I like the open source concept but im still waiting for open hardware. For example CPUs that you can make in your microwave out of sand and a can of tuna
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: [snip] 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. Yeah, ok, maybe your was not the right word. and perhaps tuning all the features is also a bad idea. However, tuning some of the more important ones shouldn't be too hard, surely? things like section numbering style, font size and type indent for the different sections... There is already quite a bit you can do - font size, for example is included in document settings (though you only get a choice of 10, 11 or 12 points - if you want anything bigger, you need to use a class like poster or manually fine-tune the whole of your document). Expanding the rangeof font faces has been on the table for a long time, but it's a larger piece of work than it looks - LyX just comes up with the fonts that are common to just about any TeX installation, and adding more fonts would require it to search the user's TeX directory to see what had been installed. As far as I can tell (C++ is beyond me!) it wouldn't be rocket science, but it would be donkey work. Numbering style is still handled by the document class, though it wouldn't be hard to over-ride it in a similar way to bullet styles, I suppose. Again, indentation of headings is automatically done by the document class. It seems you're looking for one of two things. Either your needs would be best met by some kind of style editor, so you could create LyX layout files on the fly (which would, I agree, be very nice) or you need the ability to micro-format everything as you type. In the latter case, LyX is probably not the best program for you, and I suspect that anything based on LaTeX wouldn't be either. You either need a very clever frontend to TeX which doens't rely on LaTeX, or you need a good conventional word processor (e.g. OpenOffice) or DTP program (Scribus is getting there slowly, though it's still not in the same league as the big commercial DTP programs). Robin -- Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers... - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: [snip] 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. Yeah, ok, maybe your was not the right word. and perhaps tuning all the features is also a bad idea. However, tuning some of the more important ones shouldn't be too hard, surely? things like section numbering style, font size and type indent for the different sections... There is already quite a bit you can do - font size, for example is included in document settings (though you only get a choice of 10, 11 or 12 points - if you want anything bigger, you need to use a class like poster or manually fine-tune the whole of your document). Expanding the rangeof font faces has been on the table for a long time, but it's a larger piece of work than it looks - LyX just comes up with the fonts that are common to just about any TeX installation, and adding more fonts would require it to search the user's TeX directory to see what had been installed. As far as I can tell (C++ is beyond me!) it wouldn't be rocket science, but it would be donkey work. Numbering style is still handled by the document class, though it wouldn't be hard to over-ride it in a similar way to bullet styles, I suppose. Again, indentation of headings is automatically done by the document class. It seems you're looking for one of two things. Either your needs would be best met by some kind of style editor, so you could create LyX layout files on the fly (which would, I agree, be very nice) or you need the ability to micro-format everything as you type. In the latter case, LyX is probably not the best program for you, and I suspect that anything based on LaTeX wouldn't be either. You either need a very clever frontend to TeX which doens't rely on LaTeX, or you need a good conventional word processor (e.g. OpenOffice) or DTP program (Scribus is getting there slowly, though it's still not in the same league as the big commercial DTP programs). Robin -- Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers... - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: [snip] 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of "your" here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. Yeah, ok, maybe "your" was not the right word. and perhaps tuning all the features is also a bad idea. However, tuning some of the more important ones shouldn't be too hard, surely? things like section numbering style, font size and type & indent for the different sections... There is already quite a bit you can do - font size, for example is included in document settings (though you only get a choice of 10, 11 or 12 points - if you want anything bigger, you need to use a class like poster or manually fine-tune the whole of your document). Expanding the rangeof font faces has been on the table for a long time, but it's a larger piece of work than it looks - LyX just comes up with the fonts that are common to just about any TeX installation, and adding more fonts would require it to search the user's TeX directory to see what had been installed. As far as I can tell (C++ is beyond me!) it wouldn't be rocket science, but it would be donkey work. Numbering style is still handled by the document class, though it wouldn't be hard to over-ride it in a similar way to bullet styles, I suppose. Again, indentation of headings is automatically done by the document class. It seems you're looking for one of two things. Either your needs would be best met by some kind of style editor, so you could create LyX layout files on the fly (which would, I agree, be very nice) or you need the ability to micro-format everything as you type. In the latter case, LyX is probably not the best program for you, and I suspect that anything based on LaTeX wouldn't be either. You either need a very clever frontend to TeX which doens't rely on LaTeX, or you need a good conventional word processor (e.g. OpenOffice) or DTP program (Scribus is getting there slowly, though it's still not in the same league as the big commercial DTP programs). Robin -- "Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers..." - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin
Re: others like lyx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! ohh... my ears hurt -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
Juergen == Juergen Spitzmueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Juergen Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. Juergen You should be careful with such staements these days ;-) Juergen http://www.macnn.com/news/19728 Indeed :) JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 19/06/2003 (11:10) : PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! If you don't stop shouting ... -- «It's probably worth pointing out that C's pointer arithmetic is not only dangerous, and a significant source of errors, but it also makes programs run slower.» - James Kanze on comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++.moderated
Re: others like lyx?
Thomi said: ALl i mentioned is freedom to typeset your document however the hell you want it; even if this includes having mile long gaps around your titles. In the end it's your document, you'll have to pay the price if it looks like crap. First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would appreciate it if people would use more civil language---anyone putting forth such should check their Terms of Service agreement or equivalent w/ their service provider, typically such is forbidden. Second, the matter of automagic document design has been discussed in the past on this list and is a very tough nut to crack. I was actually thinking about a project to address things like that, but am beginning to think I'd not like the potential customer base, so am disinclined to continue on it. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist voice - 717-731-6707 | Fax - 717-731-6708 www.atlis.com
Re: others like lyx?
William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would | appreciate it if people would use more civil language Completely agreed. People, please use civil language. So much easier to get a response on your post as well... -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
| First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would| appreciate it if people would use more civil language Completely agreed. well, if anything I've said has caused offence, I'm extreemly sorry. I guess different people have different standards, especially between generations.. anyway.. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! ohh... my ears hurt -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
Juergen == Juergen Spitzmueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Juergen Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. Juergen You should be careful with such staements these days ;-) Juergen http://www.macnn.com/news/19728 Indeed :) JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 19/06/2003 (11:10) : PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! If you don't stop shouting ... -- «It's probably worth pointing out that C's pointer arithmetic is not only dangerous, and a significant source of errors, but it also makes programs run slower.» - James Kanze on comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++.moderated
Re: others like lyx?
Thomi said: ALl i mentioned is freedom to typeset your document however the hell you want it; even if this includes having mile long gaps around your titles. In the end it's your document, you'll have to pay the price if it looks like crap. First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would appreciate it if people would use more civil language---anyone putting forth such should check their Terms of Service agreement or equivalent w/ their service provider, typically such is forbidden. Second, the matter of automagic document design has been discussed in the past on this list and is a very tough nut to crack. I was actually thinking about a project to address things like that, but am beginning to think I'd not like the potential customer base, so am disinclined to continue on it. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist voice - 717-731-6707 | Fax - 717-731-6708 www.atlis.com
Re: others like lyx?
William Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would | appreciate it if people would use more civil language Completely agreed. People, please use civil language. So much easier to get a response on your post as well... -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
| First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would| appreciate it if people would use more civil language Completely agreed. well, if anything I've said has caused offence, I'm extreemly sorry. I guess different people have different standards, especially between generations.. anyway.. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! ohh... my ears hurt -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
> "Juergen" == Juergen Spitzmueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Juergen> Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. Juergen> You should be careful with such staements these days ;-) Juergen> http://www.macnn.com/news/19728 Indeed :) JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 19/06/2003 (11:10) : > PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! If you don't stop shouting ... -- «It's probably worth pointing out that C's pointer arithmetic is not only dangerous, and a significant source of errors, but it also makes programs run slower.» - James Kanze on comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++.moderated
Re: others like lyx?
Thomi said: ALl i mentioned is freedom to typeset your document however the hell you want it; even if this includes having mile long gaps around your titles. In the end it's your document, you'll have to pay the price if it looks like crap. First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would appreciate it if people would use more civil language---anyone putting forth such should check their Terms of Service agreement or equivalent w/ their service provider, typically such is forbidden. Second, the matter of automagic document design has been discussed in the past on this list and is a very tough nut to crack. I was actually thinking about a project to address things like that, but am beginning to think I'd not like the potential customer base, so am disinclined to continue on it. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist voice - 717-731-6707 | Fax - 717-731-6708 www.atlis.com
Re: others like lyx?
William Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and would | appreciate it if people would use more civil language Completely agreed. People, please use civil language. So much easier to get a response on your post as well... -- Lgb
Re: others like lyx?
> | First, I'm quite put off by the recent flow of vulgarities, and > would| appreciate it if people would use more civil language > > Completely agreed. > well, if anything I've said has caused offence, I'm extreemly sorry. I guess different people have different standards, especially between generations.. anyway.. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? Personally, I think the idea behind lyx is very cool, but the implementation is a little lacking. There are also some features which i would really like to see, but which aren't present. So, I'm on the hunt for another There is TeXMacs, the commercial Scientific Word and there used to be the e:doc project. All of these have different aims. Personally, I didn't try any, because the description din't sound very promising. But this is a matter of taste of course. And there's always LaTeX with Emacs/AucTeX/preview features. BTW feature requests are always welcome. Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:37 PM, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? Personally, I think the idea behind lyx is very cool, but the implementation is a little lacking. There are also some features which i would really like to see, but which aren't present. So, I'm on the hunt for another try scientific workplace. Demo version downloadable ... and you can find a keygen to crack it on the web. or texmacs - but that one sucks big-time from my experience (instable, not userfriendly, little better than using word)! -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? For MS Windows there is Scientific Workplace. You won't get it at the same price, though. Well, there is a keygen which cracks the trial version. Just google for it! The trial version is free! What specifically do you need. If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) d) the general goal in the mind: LyX has not only be better in spirit and underlying OS as well as its own features (the latex entering of the equations is awesome) than SWP but also have every feature of SWP as easily accessable (toolbars, plotting function, computer algebra, better looking equations, etc). Best wishes, -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:02:31PM +0900, Jan Peters wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? For MS Windows there is Scientific Workplace. You won't get it at the same price, though. Well, there is a keygen which cracks the trial version. ? Just google for it! The trial version is free! I have a fully payed neatly boxed version on the shelf which is completely useless for me as I can't even install this bloody thing. What specifically do you need. If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? They certainly will be taken into consideration. Whether they get implemented or not depends on the amount of work, spare time, the phase of the moon and sometimes even on the willingness of people to pay for development. I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. As far as I know there is work being done in this direction in the current development tree. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! This would probably mean that at least on developper has access to a Mac, wouldn't it. c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) No problem. Actually, you can cut out all the text or replace it by 'xxx'. I just need structures. d) the general goal in the mind: LyX has not only be better in spirit and underlying OS as well as its own features (the latex entering of the equations is awesome) than SWP but also have every feature of SWP as easily accessable (toolbars, plotting function, computer algebra, better looking equations, etc). In print equations should look the same... Concerning heavy features as CAS support: This is not just getting the idea to work (you can compute 1+2 or similar using Maple or Mathematica or Octave from within LyX already), but this is a awful lot of work. Our resources are limited. Nobody can work full time on LyX except in rare cases like the Change Tracking support when somebody donates 'extra resources'. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Jan Peters wrote: If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: This is a free software project. People implement features if they feel like doing it. It's just a matter of fun. This is an open project. If you feel like a feature has to be implemented urgently and you cannot get a developer on you side, go ahead and code it yourself! I have done so (on a very basic level and with very small contributes), and I have never seen (nor written) any line of code before. a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! Basic support for math toolbars is already in 1.4cvs. You can try if that comes close to your needs (you have to enable the toolbar in default.ui). b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) There's work in progress on a new tex2lyx converter. You can test it with the cvs-Version (1.4) Regards, Juergen
Re: others like lyx?
b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Best wishes, -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:34:27PM +0900, Jan Peters wrote: b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Just try to compile it and report errors. I doubt there is any Qt programming necessary. This is rather a 'find suitable bits and pieces' task... Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Jan Peters wrote: I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces I am also interested in that, since I (have to) use MacOSX sometimes now at work and I am shure there are others (my time is very limited ATM). This is certainly not an easy task I guess (guessing from the fact that the native QtWin-port of LyX is still work in progress). Just try it and share your experience on the list. Regards, Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
Next time I get a free meal I'll tell the people: 'Hey, the idea of eating is cool. But your stuff tastes like shit. Can you tell me where I can find something better?' I didn't meant o cause offense in any way, but LuX simply doesn't meet my needs and, IMHO lacks some very vital features.. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
BTW feature requests are always welcome. where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? You can submit them to http://bugzilla.lyx.org (if they are not yet listed there) or to the users or developers list (where they will probably get more/sooner attention). Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:02:15PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Next time I get a free meal I'll tell the people: 'Hey, the idea of eating is cool. But your stuff tastes like shit. Can you tell me where I can find something better?' I didn't meant o cause offense in any way, but LuX simply doesn't meet my needs and, IMHO lacks some very vital features.. Like what? Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 08:59:24PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: BTW feature requests are always welcome. where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? bugzilla.lyx.org is the palce to go when you want to be sure your request is not lost. If you want some discussion first or any kind of response, post here. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, rather than have your users scurry around trying to hash together something? An example is the glossary. At the moment there seem to be two ways to get a glossary going: The first is to export to text, grep for all the capitalised words, and then make your own glossary yourself. Not only is this approach kludgey and time wasting, what happens if you have words which are NOT capitalised, but which you still want to include? searching through a 20,000 word document is not the answer i think. The other solution is to use the makeindex latex package. The trouble with this is that it forces the user to know about latex, which i don't. I'm pretty good with computers, and have done a bit of programming before, and have even *looked* at latex before, but making users learn latex in order to get a glossary going is a bit much i feel. Why not build the makeindex package into lyx, and have it done automatically? making a glossary is very similar to making a table of contents, and lyx seems to handle that just fine.. 2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document). 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. Also, I've noticed that LyX doesn't use the proper (aspell) dictionaries on my Debian Sid box, even after playing with it for a good hour or so. 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. 7.- I'm sure there was something else as well, but i can't remember it right now... I realise that people get very defencive about software they have worked on, and I really don't mean to cause any offence, but 1,45 are pretty vital features to me. What do you guys think? AFAIK they should all be able to be added without too much work (not that I've actually looked at the code myself, i don't have the experience, or the know-how). Well, i hope something good comes of this ;) Thanks for listening/reading, Thomi. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, You seem to have a fundamental misconception of how Open Source software develops. It develops because people are willing to put in the time and effort to do it _in their spare time_. None of the LyX developers are paid to develop LyX, so there is only so much that they can physically do. That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Thanks for listening/reading, Thomi. -- Angus
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:39:23PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? What was configure axactly saying? Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, You seem to have a fundamental misconception of how Open Source software develops. It develops because people are willing to put in the time and effort to do it _in their spare time_. None of the LyX developers are paid to develop LyX, so there is only so much that they can physically do. I know that, but unless someone tells developers that there are at least a few users out there who want this, it'll never get coded in now will it? Also, presumably the thing which drives these developers to develop lyx is to see it become popular? Surely then, if enough users are getting stuck at the same point, eventually one of the developers will fix it? That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. and what if it doesn't work (for whatever reason)? hen the user has to debug twice as many things. they have to look at their latex code, at the latex installation on the system, and at the lyx package itself. It just seemed easier to integrate them all in one, especially as someone has already worked out how you can do it individually, it can't be too difficult to integrate it. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Or do neither of the above, and use the other software package which does what you're looking for. Chances are, if you've found a flaw in a program, so have others. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:09:32PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. and what if it doesn't work (for whatever reason)? hen the user has to debug twice as many things. they have to look at their latex code, at the latex installation on the system, and at the lyx package itself. It just seemed easier to integrate them all in one, especially as someone has already worked out how you can do it individually, it can't be too difficult to integrate it. And what if integration is not trivial? I have a look from time to time on Herbert's page and there is not much on it that can be tucked on to LyX with three lines of code. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Or do neither of the above, and use the other software package which does what you're looking for. Chances are, if you've found a flaw in a program, so have others. Sure. So please go searching. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
El Miércoles, 18 de Junio de 2003 11:39, Thomas CLive Richards escribió:
Things *I* would like to see:
2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do
hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks
when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be
footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter
headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents
and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document).
This one is easy. Insert in the preamble of your document
(Format-Document-Preamble) the following line (as the last one, if you have
more)
\usepackage[colorlinks]{hyperref}
Remember that you can save this as default for your documents. Then view or
export with pdflatex or html, and comment on the results.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Luis Seidel
Re: others like lyx?
El Miércoles, 18 de Junio de 2003 12:58, Thomas CLive Richards escribió:
hmm, no i get erros in my document then, this is the message:
destination with the same identifier:
(name{page.1})ha
\part
{Preamble:} [1
not a VERY useful error message ;)
Be sure to have uniquely defined labels for your cross references. Two
identical labels may cause that error (if I understand it). Otherwise, try
first with a small document to get used to the working of hyperref. I admit
that a bit of LaTeX know-how helps a lot with LyX.
Luis Seidel
Re: others like lyx?
Jan == Jan Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. Jan I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good Jan enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have Jan enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people Jan interested so we could join forces I guess that Ronald Florence will try to do that soon after the necessary tools are released... JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:52:33AM +, Angus Leeming wrote: The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. And at least one of us is still available for hire ;) john
Re: others like lyx?
Sure. So please go searching. I think the basic misunderstanding here is the fact that the lyx docs and the developers have been trying to plug Lyx to a larger audience than it's really suitable for. Lyx is a perfect tool, but not for all the people it's creators claim it to be perfect for. One can only put Lyx to its fullest use if one knows Latex. And not just a little bit, but knows it pretty well. Then Lyx will take over the more routine tasks and leave the person to worry about the more subtle aspects. By subtle I mean the tips and tricks and stuff, tweaking this and that to be just as you want it and using the more complex and powerful features effectively. So one could look at it one of two ways. 1) Lyx is a great learning tool for Latex, an intermediary step for somebody who intends to eventually learn it but needs something to carry them through the transition. 2) Lyx is a tool for Latex users, meant to streamline their work and save time. The problem with issue number 5 in the initial post, is that it's not clear if it would even be possible or even desirable. It would mean creating a graphical user interface for the whole of Latex. That seems like a pretty major undertaking, and not likely to get done soon. If you want the full power of Latex it seems like there's no way out but to use Latex. I think the fundamental problem is the fact that document editing is in itself a very complex problem with no simple solution. For me, for right now, for example, what I can get out of Lyx alone, with no knowledge of Latex, is approximate, but it's OK. If I were to start writing tons of articles or 3 word documents, I would save myself the nervous breakdowns by taking a few weeks/months to get Latex down and then just ride the Lyx wave. As for the tables and the hyperlinks, I agree with the initial post. Alex. PS. And it's all meant as constructive criticism. I am a Lyx user, so what's good for Lyx is good for me.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 05:10:35PM +0200, Alexandru Cabuz wrote: Sure. So please go searching. I think the basic misunderstanding here is the fact that the lyx docs and the developers have been trying to plug Lyx to a larger audience than it's really suitable for. Do you have any proof for that claim? At least this here is a purely LyX related forum. As far as I can tell there is no coordinated effort to go on a crusade in the outside world. The problem with issue number 5 in the initial post, is that it's not clear if it would even be possible or even desirable. It would mean creating a graphical user interface for the whole of Latex. That seems like a pretty major undertaking, and not likely to get done soon. If you want the full power of Latex it seems like there's no way out but to use Latex. Indeed. You cannot hide _all_ of LaTeX behind a slick GUI. It's just too powerful (and too messy...). Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Juergen == Juergen Spitzmueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Juergen Jan Peters wrote: I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Juergen I am also interested in that, since I (have to) use MacOSX Juergen sometimes now at work and I am shure there are others (my Juergen time is very limited ATM). This is certainly not an easy task Juergen I guess (guessing from the fact that the native QtWin-port of Juergen LyX is still work in progress). Just try it and share your Juergen experience on the list. Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. It should be rather easy. JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
On Wednesday 18 June 2003 11:39, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... A good way for me is using gnumeric for tables. Edit your Tables with gnumeric, sorting and calculating should be no problem at all. Mark and copy the cells you want to appear in lyx. Paste this into al lyx Table which has the number of rows and colums needed. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. There is a lyx-qt and a lyx-xforms package for sid, have a look at http://www.apt-get.org. You can install both pakages on your machine. Start lyx-qt or lyx-xforms both will work. Bye, Thomas
Re: others like lyx?
Do you have any proof for that claim? Allright, I take that back. I guess I am kinda still stuck in the Word Processing mode/mentality and occasionally become annoyed I can't do this one simple thing. And this Latex and Tex and document classes and bibtex styles and whatnot, are more complicated than I thought. But I do not regret switching to Lyx. I've been learning and it's already paying off. But there's a hell of a lot left to learn. C'est la vie, in Open Source Land. Alex.
Re: others like lyx?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. You should be careful with such staements these days ;-) http://www.macnn.com/news/19728 It should be rather easy. Good to hear. Juergen
Re: others like lyx?
On 2003-06-18, 10:09 GMT, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: I know that, but unless someone tells developers that there are at least a few users out there who want this, it'll never get coded in The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a look at archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. I was not sure, but he is troll -- do not feed him! *PLONK* Matej -- Matej Cepl, GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC 138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Jan Peters wrote: If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. Can I add a feature request in the other direction? Either a setting to eliminate toolbars altogether, or a way to replace the icons with text? At my usual resolution (1800x1200 on a 21 screen), the current icons are so small that they're pretty much indistinguishable blobs. Even when I enlarge them, very few are actually intuitive to me: I have no clue at all as to what functions most are supposed to do. For instance, it's much, much easier for me to read the word Print, than to try to figure out that some tiny squiggles are supposed to be a picture of an old-fashioned dot-matrix printer with paper sticking out, and that that corresponds to the print function. James
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:21:07AM -0700, James Frye wrote: Can I add a feature request in the other direction? Either a setting to eliminate toolbars altogether You can eliminate the toolbar altogether in the Qt frontend I believe. It's definitely poossible with current CVS. Just edit the UI file to remove the toolbars and put it in ~/.lyx/ui/ , or a way to replace the icons with text? Not possible. At my usual resolution (1800x1200 on a 21 screen), the current icons are so small that they're pretty much indistinguishable blobs. Even when I We need font schemes. regards john
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, rather than have your users scurry around trying to hash together something? An example is the glossary. At the moment there seem to be two ways to get a glossary going: The first is to export to text, grep for all the capitalised words, and then make your own glossary yourself. Not only is this approach kludgey and time wasting, what happens if you have words which are NOT capitalised, but which you still want to include? searching through a 20,000 word document is not the answer i think. The other solution is to use the makeindex latex package. The trouble with this is that it forces the user to know about latex, which i don't. I'm pretty good with computers, and have done a bit of programming before, and have even *looked* at latex before, but making users learn latex in order to get a glossary going is a bit much i feel. Why not build the makeindex package into lyx, and have it done automatically? making a glossary is very similar to making a table of contents, and lyx seems to handle that just fine.. It would be nice, but I don't know if it should be a priority. 2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document). This is answered later in the thread. It might be worth having it as a default, but you know how it is with default packages - put one in, and someone will write to the list complaining why is this useless feature enabled by default. 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... That would be nice, I agree. For anything requiring lots of data to format, I tend to use OpenOffice (particularly because it has reasonably good integration with spreadsheets and databases). I imagine that for the mathematicians and scientists who make up the hardcore of LaTeX users, ability to do more with table data would be even more useful. 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. There were a lot of posts on this issue some time back (I remember, I was one of the people asking questions!). Have a hunt through the archives. 7.- I'm sure there was something else as well, but i can't remember it right now...
Re: others like lyx?
The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a look at archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. I never mentioned WYSIWYG. ALl i mentioned is freedom to typeset your document however the hell you want it; even if this includes having mile long gaps around your titles. In the end it's your document, you'll have to pay the price if it looks like crap. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
It would be nice, but I don't know if it should be a priority. If you're making a document wich needs a long glossary, it's pretty vital. In my document for ewxample i need to define all sorts of accronyms, PC, MPG, NPC, and a whole heap more. 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. very useful. My spelling is really bad. I might have a word spelt incorrectly 300 times in my docment. Clicking once is a lot easier than having to click 300 times ;) Table sorting.. That would be nice, I agree. For anything requiring lots of data to format, I tend to use OpenOffice (particularly because it has reasonably good integration with spreadsheets and databases). I imagine that for the mathematicians and scientists who make up the hardcore of LaTeX users, ability to do more with table data would be even more useful. Yes, agreed. 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. Yeah, ok, maybe your was not the right word. and perhaps tuning all the features is also a bad idea. However, tuning some of the more important ones shouldn't be too hard, surely? things like section numbering style, font size and type indent for the different sections... BTW, I'm sure that if a benevolent millionaire were to pay a team of LyX developers to implement every feature request anyone has come up with here or on Bugzilla, someone would write in to complain about LyX being bloated and say there is a need for a lightweight front-end to LaTeX ;-) If i were a benevolent millionaire i probably would. Unfortunately, I'm a very poor student ;) -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 12:58:52PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. very useful. My spelling is really bad. I might have a word spelt incorrectly 300 times in my docment. Clicking once is a lot easier than having to click 300 times ;) I've already WONTFIXed this request in bugzilla. You have find and replace: if you make consistent spelling errors, and you are positive you don't need to check them manually, use that dialog. john
Re: others like lyx?
The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a lookat archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. SWP IS NOT MORE WYSIWYG THAN LYX! IN FACT -- WITH INSTANT PREVIEW, LYX IS MORE WYSWIG THAN SWP AS I REALIZED YESTERDAY! BUT: SWP IS MORE LATEX THAN LYX --- LYX NEEDS ITS OWN FORMAT AND OFTEN DOES IMPERFECT LATEX CODE WHILE THE PORTABLE LATEX DOES REALLY GOOD CODE! IN COMPARISON TO SWP, LYX LACKS - good integration of computer algebra - nice toolbars (replace the math panel) - better latex integration AND IT SHOULD FLY NICELY. PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! -Jan
Re: others like lyx? Start a separate project
Andre Poenitz wrote: Indeed. You cannot hide _all_ of LaTeX behind a slick GUI. It's just too powerful (and too messy...). Andre' I think LyX is superb in meeting its intended purpose. It literally does allow a user to produce beatiful LaTeX documents with no knowlege of LaTeX at all. Not just no knowledge of LaTeX but also no knowledge of typesetting. I can teach new users LyX and have them functional within 20 minutes. The desire to have a GUI which allows you to create new classes or styles for LaTeX could well be the basis for a completely separate (but complementary) project. John O'Gorman
Re: others like lyx?
Robin wrote: BTW, I'm sure that if a benevolent millionaire were to pay a team of LyX developers to implement every feature request anyone has come up with here or on Bugzilla, someone would write in to complain about LyX being bloated and say there is a need for a lightweight front-end to LaTeX ;-) And I would probably be one of them. Most of my grizzles about difficult things that I need to do are not related to lyx but some of the programs it calls on so are out of the hands of the lyx developers. For example 1. why latex hasn't implemented the \imaslackpricksodomyphdthesisforme function is beyond me 2. .bst files s*t me. The whole stack concept reads if it was meant to be implemented on a HP RPN calculator except every second character is a bracket or comma anyway Im happy with what I get particuarly as its free. I like the open source concept but im still waiting for open hardware. For example CPUs that you can make in your microwave out of sand and a can of tuna
Re: others like lyx? Start a separate project
John O'Gorman wrote: The desire to have a GUI which allows you to create new classes or styles for LaTeX could well be the basis for a completely separate (but complementary) project. John O'Gorman Agreed However, really, two projects are needed; the first is as you described and could be used by non-lyx latex users though I don't know how many of them would. The second would be a GUI for constructing a lyx class.layout file corresponding to the latex class or style file. These are separate (but complementary) projects, at least in principle, so the lyx team could in principle implement the latter (once their todo list is sufficiently short of course). In the meantime the class.layout files are not so difficult to do manually. Ralph
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? Personally, I think the idea behind lyx is very cool, but the implementation is a little lacking. There are also some features which i would really like to see, but which aren't present. So, I'm on the hunt for another There is TeXMacs, the commercial Scientific Word and there used to be the e:doc project. All of these have different aims. Personally, I didn't try any, because the description din't sound very promising. But this is a matter of taste of course. And there's always LaTeX with Emacs/AucTeX/preview features. BTW feature requests are always welcome. Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 03:37 PM, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? Personally, I think the idea behind lyx is very cool, but the implementation is a little lacking. There are also some features which i would really like to see, but which aren't present. So, I'm on the hunt for another try scientific workplace. Demo version downloadable ... and you can find a keygen to crack it on the web. or texmacs - but that one sucks big-time from my experience (instable, not userfriendly, little better than using word)! -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? For MS Windows there is Scientific Workplace. You won't get it at the same price, though. Well, there is a keygen which cracks the trial version. Just google for it! The trial version is free! What specifically do you need. If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) d) the general goal in the mind: LyX has not only be better in spirit and underlying OS as well as its own features (the latex entering of the equations is awesome) than SWP but also have every feature of SWP as easily accessable (toolbars, plotting function, computer algebra, better looking equations, etc). Best wishes, -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:02:31PM +0900, Jan Peters wrote: does anyone know of any other programs like lyx? For MS Windows there is Scientific Workplace. You won't get it at the same price, though. Well, there is a keygen which cracks the trial version. ? Just google for it! The trial version is free! I have a fully payed neatly boxed version on the shelf which is completely useless for me as I can't even install this bloody thing. What specifically do you need. If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? They certainly will be taken into consideration. Whether they get implemented or not depends on the amount of work, spare time, the phase of the moon and sometimes even on the willingness of people to pay for development. I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. As far as I know there is work being done in this direction in the current development tree. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! This would probably mean that at least on developper has access to a Mac, wouldn't it. c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) No problem. Actually, you can cut out all the text or replace it by 'xxx'. I just need structures. d) the general goal in the mind: LyX has not only be better in spirit and underlying OS as well as its own features (the latex entering of the equations is awesome) than SWP but also have every feature of SWP as easily accessable (toolbars, plotting function, computer algebra, better looking equations, etc). In print equations should look the same... Concerning heavy features as CAS support: This is not just getting the idea to work (you can compute 1+2 or similar using Maple or Mathematica or Octave from within LyX already), but this is a awful lot of work. Our resources are limited. Nobody can work full time on LyX except in rare cases like the Change Tracking support when somebody donates 'extra resources'. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Jan Peters wrote: If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: This is a free software project. People implement features if they feel like doing it. It's just a matter of fun. This is an open project. If you feel like a feature has to be implemented urgently and you cannot get a developer on you side, go ahead and code it yourself! I have done so (on a very basic level and with very small contributes), and I have never seen (nor written) any line of code before. a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. I am integrating some of it in my .ui toolbars now (thanks to your help andre), but I am missing a few things! Basic support for math toolbars is already in 1.4cvs. You can try if that comes close to your needs (you have to enable the toolbar in default.ui). b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. c) The Latex import has to work better (Andre: If you treat them confidentially, I would give them to you) There's work in progress on a new tex2lyx converter. You can test it with the cvs-Version (1.4) Regards, Juergen
Re: others like lyx?
b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Best wishes, -Jan
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:34:27PM +0900, Jan Peters wrote: b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Just try to compile it and report errors. I doubt there is any Qt programming necessary. This is rather a 'find suitable bits and pieces' task... Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Jan Peters wrote: I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces I am also interested in that, since I (have to) use MacOSX sometimes now at work and I am shure there are others (my time is very limited ATM). This is certainly not an easy task I guess (guessing from the fact that the native QtWin-port of LyX is still work in progress). Just try it and share your experience on the list. Regards, Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
Next time I get a free meal I'll tell the people: 'Hey, the idea of eating is cool. But your stuff tastes like shit. Can you tell me where I can find something better?' I didn't meant o cause offense in any way, but LuX simply doesn't meet my needs and, IMHO lacks some very vital features.. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
BTW feature requests are always welcome. where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? You can submit them to http://bugzilla.lyx.org (if they are not yet listed there) or to the users or developers list (where they will probably get more/sooner attention). Juergen.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:02:15PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Next time I get a free meal I'll tell the people: 'Hey, the idea of eating is cool. But your stuff tastes like shit. Can you tell me where I can find something better?' I didn't meant o cause offense in any way, but LuX simply doesn't meet my needs and, IMHO lacks some very vital features.. Like what? Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 08:59:24PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: BTW feature requests are always welcome. where's the website for feature requests? or should i submit them to this list? bugzilla.lyx.org is the palce to go when you want to be sure your request is not lost. If you want some discussion first or any kind of response, post here. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, rather than have your users scurry around trying to hash together something? An example is the glossary. At the moment there seem to be two ways to get a glossary going: The first is to export to text, grep for all the capitalised words, and then make your own glossary yourself. Not only is this approach kludgey and time wasting, what happens if you have words which are NOT capitalised, but which you still want to include? searching through a 20,000 word document is not the answer i think. The other solution is to use the makeindex latex package. The trouble with this is that it forces the user to know about latex, which i don't. I'm pretty good with computers, and have done a bit of programming before, and have even *looked* at latex before, but making users learn latex in order to get a glossary going is a bit much i feel. Why not build the makeindex package into lyx, and have it done automatically? making a glossary is very similar to making a table of contents, and lyx seems to handle that just fine.. 2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document). 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. Also, I've noticed that LyX doesn't use the proper (aspell) dictionaries on my Debian Sid box, even after playing with it for a good hour or so. 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. 7.- I'm sure there was something else as well, but i can't remember it right now... I realise that people get very defencive about software they have worked on, and I really don't mean to cause any offence, but 1,45 are pretty vital features to me. What do you guys think? AFAIK they should all be able to be added without too much work (not that I've actually looked at the code myself, i don't have the experience, or the know-how). Well, i hope something good comes of this ;) Thanks for listening/reading, Thomi. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, You seem to have a fundamental misconception of how Open Source software develops. It develops because people are willing to put in the time and effort to do it _in their spare time_. None of the LyX developers are paid to develop LyX, so there is only so much that they can physically do. That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Thanks for listening/reading, Thomi. -- Angus
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:39:23PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? What was configure axactly saying? Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, You seem to have a fundamental misconception of how Open Source software develops. It develops because people are willing to put in the time and effort to do it _in their spare time_. None of the LyX developers are paid to develop LyX, so there is only so much that they can physically do. I know that, but unless someone tells developers that there are at least a few users out there who want this, it'll never get coded in now will it? Also, presumably the thing which drives these developers to develop lyx is to see it become popular? Surely then, if enough users are getting stuck at the same point, eventually one of the developers will fix it? That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. and what if it doesn't work (for whatever reason)? hen the user has to debug twice as many things. they have to look at their latex code, at the latex installation on the system, and at the lyx package itself. It just seemed easier to integrate them all in one, especially as someone has already worked out how you can do it individually, it can't be too difficult to integrate it. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Or do neither of the above, and use the other software package which does what you're looking for. Chances are, if you've found a flaw in a program, so have others. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:09:32PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: That is exactly why LyX was designed to allow the user to input the raw LaTeX. People like Herbert, who know LaTeX inside out, have provided a collection of magic so that the final output is indistiguishable to that which would be produced were their native LyX support for that feature. The two approaches (native LyX support and ability to input LaTeX) are orthogonal and complimentary. and what if it doesn't work (for whatever reason)? hen the user has to debug twice as many things. they have to look at their latex code, at the latex installation on the system, and at the lyx package itself. It just seemed easier to integrate them all in one, especially as someone has already worked out how you can do it individually, it can't be too difficult to integrate it. And what if integration is not trivial? I have a look from time to time on Herbert's page and there is not much on it that can be tucked on to LyX with three lines of code. The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. Or do neither of the above, and use the other software package which does what you're looking for. Chances are, if you've found a flaw in a program, so have others. Sure. So please go searching. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
El Miércoles, 18 de Junio de 2003 11:39, Thomas CLive Richards escribió:
Things *I* would like to see:
2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do
hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks
when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be
footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter
headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents
and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document).
This one is easy. Insert in the preamble of your document
(Format-Document-Preamble) the following line (as the last one, if you have
more)
\usepackage[colorlinks]{hyperref}
Remember that you can save this as default for your documents. Then view or
export with pdflatex or html, and comment on the results.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Luis Seidel
Re: others like lyx?
El Miércoles, 18 de Junio de 2003 12:58, Thomas CLive Richards escribió:
hmm, no i get erros in my document then, this is the message:
destination with the same identifier:
(name{page.1})ha
\part
{Preamble:} [1
not a VERY useful error message ;)
Be sure to have uniquely defined labels for your cross references. Two
identical labels may cause that error (if I understand it). Otherwise, try
first with a small document to get used to the working of hyperref. I admit
that a bit of LaTeX know-how helps a lot with LyX.
Luis Seidel
Re: others like lyx?
Jan == Jan Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: b) Using the new GPL QT/Mac announced today: a Mac Native version! If there is anyone who is interested in doing that port. Jan I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good Jan enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have Jan enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people Jan interested so we could join forces I guess that Ronald Florence will try to do that soon after the necessary tools are released... JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:52:33AM +, Angus Leeming wrote: The moral? If you want something badly enough, then code it up or pay someone to do it for you. And at least one of us is still available for hire ;) john
Re: others like lyx?
Sure. So please go searching. I think the basic misunderstanding here is the fact that the lyx docs and the developers have been trying to plug Lyx to a larger audience than it's really suitable for. Lyx is a perfect tool, but not for all the people it's creators claim it to be perfect for. One can only put Lyx to its fullest use if one knows Latex. And not just a little bit, but knows it pretty well. Then Lyx will take over the more routine tasks and leave the person to worry about the more subtle aspects. By subtle I mean the tips and tricks and stuff, tweaking this and that to be just as you want it and using the more complex and powerful features effectively. So one could look at it one of two ways. 1) Lyx is a great learning tool for Latex, an intermediary step for somebody who intends to eventually learn it but needs something to carry them through the transition. 2) Lyx is a tool for Latex users, meant to streamline their work and save time. The problem with issue number 5 in the initial post, is that it's not clear if it would even be possible or even desirable. It would mean creating a graphical user interface for the whole of Latex. That seems like a pretty major undertaking, and not likely to get done soon. If you want the full power of Latex it seems like there's no way out but to use Latex. I think the fundamental problem is the fact that document editing is in itself a very complex problem with no simple solution. For me, for right now, for example, what I can get out of Lyx alone, with no knowledge of Latex, is approximate, but it's OK. If I were to start writing tons of articles or 3 word documents, I would save myself the nervous breakdowns by taking a few weeks/months to get Latex down and then just ride the Lyx wave. As for the tables and the hyperlinks, I agree with the initial post. Alex. PS. And it's all meant as constructive criticism. I am a Lyx user, so what's good for Lyx is good for me.
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 05:10:35PM +0200, Alexandru Cabuz wrote: Sure. So please go searching. I think the basic misunderstanding here is the fact that the lyx docs and the developers have been trying to plug Lyx to a larger audience than it's really suitable for. Do you have any proof for that claim? At least this here is a purely LyX related forum. As far as I can tell there is no coordinated effort to go on a crusade in the outside world. The problem with issue number 5 in the initial post, is that it's not clear if it would even be possible or even desirable. It would mean creating a graphical user interface for the whole of Latex. That seems like a pretty major undertaking, and not likely to get done soon. If you want the full power of Latex it seems like there's no way out but to use Latex. Indeed. You cannot hide _all_ of LaTeX behind a slick GUI. It's just too powerful (and too messy...). Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)
Re: others like lyx?
Juergen == Juergen Spitzmueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Juergen Jan Peters wrote: I will definitly try myself, but I do not know whether I am good enough a Mac/QT programmer for that and whether I will have enough time! But it would be cool if there were a few more people interested so we could join forces Juergen I am also interested in that, since I (have to) use MacOSX Juergen sometimes now at work and I am shure there are others (my Juergen time is very limited ATM). This is certainly not an easy task Juergen I guess (guessing from the fact that the native QtWin-port of Juergen LyX is still work in progress). Just try it and share your Juergen experience on the list. Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. It should be rather easy. JMarc
Re: others like lyx?
On Wednesday 18 June 2003 11:39, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... A good way for me is using gnumeric for tables. Edit your Tables with gnumeric, sorting and calculating should be no problem at all. Mark and copy the cells you want to appear in lyx. Paste this into al lyx Table which has the number of rows and colums needed. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. There is a lyx-qt and a lyx-xforms package for sid, have a look at http://www.apt-get.org. You can install both pakages on your machine. Start lyx-qt or lyx-xforms both will work. Bye, Thomas
Re: others like lyx?
Do you have any proof for that claim? Allright, I take that back. I guess I am kinda still stuck in the Word Processing mode/mentality and occasionally become annoyed I can't do this one simple thing. And this Latex and Tex and document classes and bibtex styles and whatnot, are more complicated than I thought. But I do not regret switching to Lyx. I've been learning and it's already paying off. But there's a hell of a lot left to learn. C'est la vie, in Open Source Land. Alex.
Re: others like lyx?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Note that OSX _is_ unix, whereas windows is not. You should be careful with such staements these days ;-) http://www.macnn.com/news/19728 It should be rather easy. Good to hear. Juergen
Re: others like lyx?
On 2003-06-18, 10:09 GMT, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: I know that, but unless someone tells developers that there are at least a few users out there who want this, it'll never get coded in The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a look at archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. I was not sure, but he is troll -- do not feed him! *PLONK* Matej -- Matej Cepl, GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC 138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Jan Peters wrote: If I make a list of features I really need, would you guys really implement them? I would start with two things: a) The Menus in Lyx are very good --- however, the usage of the math-panels is not nice. I would like to see that integrated as toolbars. Can I add a feature request in the other direction? Either a setting to eliminate toolbars altogether, or a way to replace the icons with text? At my usual resolution (1800x1200 on a 21 screen), the current icons are so small that they're pretty much indistinguishable blobs. Even when I enlarge them, very few are actually intuitive to me: I have no clue at all as to what functions most are supposed to do. For instance, it's much, much easier for me to read the word Print, than to try to figure out that some tiny squiggles are supposed to be a picture of an old-fashioned dot-matrix printer with paper sticking out, and that that corresponds to the print function. James
Re: others like lyx?
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:21:07AM -0700, James Frye wrote: Can I add a feature request in the other direction? Either a setting to eliminate toolbars altogether You can eliminate the toolbar altogether in the Qt frontend I believe. It's definitely poossible with current CVS. Just edit the UI file to remove the toolbars and put it in ~/.lyx/ui/ , or a way to replace the icons with text? Not possible. At my usual resolution (1800x1200 on a 21 screen), the current icons are so small that they're pretty much indistinguishable blobs. Even when I We need font schemes. regards john
Re: others like lyx?
Thomas CLive Richards wrote: Like what? ok, I'll make a list of all the things I've found myself wanting. To start off with, I'll say this: I've been using Lyx to compile a 20,000+ word design document for an electronic game. It's been pretty cool, but the large document size has (i believe) stressed some of the components of lyx a little. Things *I* would like to see: 1.- An integration of most of the tips and tricks listed on the website. Since someone has gone to the trouble of listing them,. they must be being used. therefore, why not include them in the lyx program, rather than have your users scurry around trying to hash together something? An example is the glossary. At the moment there seem to be two ways to get a glossary going: The first is to export to text, grep for all the capitalised words, and then make your own glossary yourself. Not only is this approach kludgey and time wasting, what happens if you have words which are NOT capitalised, but which you still want to include? searching through a 20,000 word document is not the answer i think. The other solution is to use the makeindex latex package. The trouble with this is that it forces the user to know about latex, which i don't. I'm pretty good with computers, and have done a bit of programming before, and have even *looked* at latex before, but making users learn latex in order to get a glossary going is a bit much i feel. Why not build the makeindex package into lyx, and have it done automatically? making a glossary is very similar to making a table of contents, and lyx seems to handle that just fine.. It would be nice, but I don't know if it should be a priority. 2.- Not really sure about this one, but isn't it possible to do hyperlinks in PDF? why not have it so that lyx creates these hyperlinks when exporting documents to either HTML or PDF? The links should be footnotes and the chapter headings (as in: chapters link to the chapter headings in the document, so users can click in the table of contents and be sent to the correct part in the body of the document). This is answered later in the thread. It might be worth having it as a default, but you know how it is with default packages - put one in, and someone will write to the list complaining why is this useless feature enabled by default. 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. 4.- Table sorting. I've brought this up here before, but I may as well do it again. I feel that this feature is vital. I have (in my document) tables with 300+ rows, and i have to be able to sort them. AT the moment I'm copying them to a text file, and sorting them with a python script, and then pasting them back into lyx. As i said before, this is pretty silly... That would be nice, I agree. For anything requiring lots of data to format, I tend to use OpenOffice (particularly because it has reasonably good integration with spreadsheets and databases). I imagine that for the mathematicians and scientists who make up the hardcore of LaTeX users, ability to do more with table data would be even more useful. 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. 6.- Also, I have never been able to get the QT frontend to compile with lyx. I'm using the very latest QT libraries, and update my system regurally, but still i run into errors. Most of the time it's can't find QT libraries, even though I've specified where the libraries are. Is this me? or lyx? either way, perhaps some documentation in the source package should say what the magic trick is to get this going. There were a lot of posts on this issue some time back (I remember, I was one of the people asking questions!). Have a hunt through the archives. 7.- I'm sure there was something else as well, but i can't remember it right now...
Re: others like lyx?
The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a look at archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. I never mentioned WYSIWYG. ALl i mentioned is freedom to typeset your document however the hell you want it; even if this includes having mile long gaps around your titles. In the end it's your document, you'll have to pay the price if it looks like crap. -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
It would be nice, but I don't know if it should be a priority. If you're making a document wich needs a long glossary, it's pretty vital. In my document for ewxample i need to define all sorts of accronyms, PC, MPG, NPC, and a whole heap more. 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. very useful. My spelling is really bad. I might have a word spelt incorrectly 300 times in my docment. Clicking once is a lot easier than having to click 300 times ;) Table sorting.. That would be nice, I agree. For anything requiring lots of data to format, I tend to use OpenOffice (particularly because it has reasonably good integration with spreadsheets and databases). I imagine that for the mathematicians and scientists who make up the hardcore of LaTeX users, ability to do more with table data would be even more useful. Yes, agreed. 5.- Users *should* be able to fine tune *all* the details about the typesetting. Boxing users in so they can only use what *you* think is good type setting is (IMHO) plain silly. I personally can't find any styles in the pretty small style list which exactly matches the style i need. I should be able to set everything, like the whitespace above and below titles, whether chapters/sections/subsections start on a new page, whether tables are set out on a seperate page, and a whole lot more. Again, forcing users to use *your* style of typesetting just makes users unhappy with the results. The use of your here is misleading. The LyX developers do not set the paragraph environments, they come from whoever writes the LaTeX styles. A style editor would be a nice feature, but it would also be a lot of work. Yeah, ok, maybe your was not the right word. and perhaps tuning all the features is also a bad idea. However, tuning some of the more important ones shouldn't be too hard, surely? things like section numbering style, font size and type indent for the different sections... BTW, I'm sure that if a benevolent millionaire were to pay a team of LyX developers to implement every feature request anyone has come up with here or on Bugzilla, someone would write in to complain about LyX being bloated and say there is a need for a lightweight front-end to LaTeX ;-) If i were a benevolent millionaire i probably would. Unfortunately, I'm a very poor student ;) -- Thomi Richards, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: others like lyx?
On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 12:58:52PM +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: 3.- Spellchecker. A replace all button would be nice. It would not, IMHO. I have rceived student essays on Plato where every instance of the philosopher's name was spelt plateau, not to mention a paper on the famous political philosopher Thomas Hobbies. OK, these were problems between chair and keyboard, but I still feel that replace all is for editing programs, not text documents. Though I suppose in a case like yours, where you're dealing with very long texts, it would be useful. very useful. My spelling is really bad. I might have a word spelt incorrectly 300 times in my docment. Clicking once is a lot easier than having to click 300 times ;) I've already WONTFIXed this request in bugzilla. You have find and replace: if you make consistent spelling errors, and you are positive you don't need to check them manually, use that dialog. john
Re: others like lyx?
The problem is that some clue-less newbies are not willing to take a lookat archives of the conference to find that exactly this kind of stuff (recreating LyX into WYSIWYG junk like SWP for those who want SWP, but are not willing to bite a bullet and pay its price) repeats periodically and people on this periodically explain why LaTeX is not and *should not* be WYSIWYG. SWP IS NOT MORE WYSIWYG THAN LYX! IN FACT -- WITH INSTANT PREVIEW, LYX IS MORE WYSWIG THAN SWP AS I REALIZED YESTERDAY! BUT: SWP IS MORE LATEX THAN LYX --- LYX NEEDS ITS OWN FORMAT AND OFTEN DOES IMPERFECT LATEX CODE WHILE THE PORTABLE LATEX DOES REALLY GOOD CODE! IN COMPARISON TO SWP, LYX LACKS - good integration of computer algebra - nice toolbars (replace the math panel) - better latex integration AND IT SHOULD FLY NICELY. PERSONAL WISH: DON'T FORGET US OS X PEOPLE! -Jan
Re: others like lyx? Start a separate project
Andre Poenitz wrote: Indeed. You cannot hide _all_ of LaTeX behind a slick GUI. It's just too powerful (and too messy...). Andre' I think LyX is superb in meeting its intended purpose. It literally does allow a user to produce beatiful LaTeX documents with no knowlege of LaTeX at all. Not just no knowledge of LaTeX but also no knowledge of typesetting. I can teach new users LyX and have them functional within 20 minutes. The desire to have a GUI which allows you to create new classes or styles for LaTeX could well be the basis for a completely separate (but complementary) project. John O'Gorman
