The pLyX system: sorting tables and lists

[Andrew Parsloe]

There are four scripts attached with this email and one 
compressed-format LyX document:


sortable.py, sortable_help.py -- a script for sorting tables in LyX,  
its help file
sortlist.py, sortlist_help.py -- a script for sorting lists in LyX,  
its help file

pLyXSorting(compressed).lyx -- an explanatory document with examples

The LyX document is in compressed LyX format. For the examples to work 
it must be saved in uncompressed format. (The pLyX system depends on LyX 
files being *text* files.) It contains some example tables and a 
substantial multi-level list to play with.


The table sorting script reworks for the pLyX system a script aired on 
this list back in September. On the developer's list I've noticed recent 
work to swap columns or swap rows in tables. I imagine once that is 
done, the next step will be hard to resist: go the whole way and sort 
the table. This might be a short-lived script.


The list sorting script is new and was harder to write because of the 
recursive calls to the sorting routine required by the (possible) 
presence of sub-lists. My underlying interest in sorting lists arose 
from a wish to sort indexes. (With their headings, subheadings, 
sub-subheadings, ... the logic is the same.)


Andrew


def helpnote(hv):
if hv  1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort table
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (15 December 2012) Columns can be sorted more than once for
 inter-filed mixed-case alphabetical sorting.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.4 (1 November 2012) First version for pLyX system.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.3 (17 September 2012) Use of custom insets; yellow notes option,
 hrules and vrules preserved.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 September 2012) Script now ignores ERT insets.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (12 September 2012 Table sorting script posted to user's list.
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort the
\emph on
 rows
\emph default
 by the values in specified columns.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Global options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
-
\series bold
h  --help
\series default
  show this help note.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-v --version
\series default
  show version information.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-n  --notes
\series default
make LyX's (yellow) notes sortable; notes are
 sort-neutral by default.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Local options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
A sort specification is a sequence like 
\series bold
2a3A1+
\series default
 (or 
\series bold
2a 3A 1+
\series default
 or 
\series bold
2a
\series default
,
\series bold
 3A
\series default
,
\series bold
 1+
\series default
, etc.) where the number indicates the column and the qualifying letter or
 sign indicates the kind of sort. A specification may involve from one to
 all columns in the table and a column may appear in the spec. more than once.
 The primary sort is by the first column specified, the secondary sort by
 the second column, etc. 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
a, A, +
\series default
 indicate ascending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
z, Z, -
\series default
 indicate descending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
letters indicate alphabetical sorts, uppercase indicating case sensitivity;
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
+, -
\series default
 indicate numerical sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
The 
\emph on
next
\emph default
 and subsequent rows of a table following a sort specification are sorted.
 For neat alphabetical sorts involving inter-filed mixed case, specify columns
 twice, e.g. 
\series bold
1a1A
\series default
 for an AaBbCc ... sort, or
\series bold
1a1Z
\series default
 for an aAbBcC ... sort.
\end_layout
'''




def helpnote(hv):
if hv  1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort list
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (16 December 2012) Allow secondary, tertiary, etc. sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 December 2012) Include -a and -n options.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (8 November 2012)
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort one or more lists and sub-lists.
\begin_layout LyX-Code

\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code

The pLyX system: sorting tables and lists

[Andrew Parsloe]

There are four scripts attached with this email and one 
compressed-format LyX document:


sortable.py, sortable_help.py -- a script for sorting tables in LyX,  
its help file
sortlist.py, sortlist_help.py -- a script for sorting lists in LyX,  
its help file

pLyXSorting(compressed).lyx -- an explanatory document with examples

The LyX document is in compressed LyX format. For the examples to work 
it must be saved in uncompressed format. (The pLyX system depends on LyX 
files being *text* files.) It contains some example tables and a 
substantial multi-level list to play with.


The table sorting script reworks for the pLyX system a script aired on 
this list back in September. On the developer's list I've noticed recent 
work to swap columns or swap rows in tables. I imagine once that is 
done, the next step will be hard to resist: go the whole way and sort 
the table. This might be a short-lived script.


The list sorting script is new and was harder to write because of the 
recursive calls to the sorting routine required by the (possible) 
presence of sub-lists. My underlying interest in sorting lists arose 
from a wish to sort indexes. (With their headings, subheadings, 
sub-subheadings, ... the logic is the same.)


Andrew


def helpnote(hv):
if hv  1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort table
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (15 December 2012) Columns can be sorted more than once for
 inter-filed mixed-case alphabetical sorting.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.4 (1 November 2012) First version for pLyX system.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.3 (17 September 2012) Use of custom insets; yellow notes option,
 hrules and vrules preserved.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 September 2012) Script now ignores ERT insets.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (12 September 2012 Table sorting script posted to user's list.
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort the
\emph on
 rows
\emph default
 by the values in specified columns.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Global options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
-
\series bold
h  --help
\series default
  show this help note.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-v --version
\series default
  show version information.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-n  --notes
\series default
make LyX's (yellow) notes sortable; notes are
 sort-neutral by default.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Local options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
A sort specification is a sequence like 
\series bold
2a3A1+
\series default
 (or 
\series bold
2a 3A 1+
\series default
 or 
\series bold
2a
\series default
,
\series bold
 3A
\series default
,
\series bold
 1+
\series default
, etc.) where the number indicates the column and the qualifying letter or
 sign indicates the kind of sort. A specification may involve from one to
 all columns in the table and a column may appear in the spec. more than once.
 The primary sort is by the first column specified, the secondary sort by
 the second column, etc. 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
a, A, +
\series default
 indicate ascending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
z, Z, -
\series default
 indicate descending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
letters indicate alphabetical sorts, uppercase indicating case sensitivity;
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
+, -
\series default
 indicate numerical sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
The 
\emph on
next
\emph default
 and subsequent rows of a table following a sort specification are sorted.
 For neat alphabetical sorts involving inter-filed mixed case, specify columns
 twice, e.g. 
\series bold
1a1A
\series default
 for an AaBbCc ... sort, or
\series bold
1a1Z
\series default
 for an aAbBcC ... sort.
\end_layout
'''




def helpnote(hv):
if hv  1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort list
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (16 December 2012) Allow secondary, tertiary, etc. sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 December 2012) Include -a and -n options.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (8 November 2012)
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort one or more lists and sub-lists.
\begin_layout LyX-Code

\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code

The pLyX system: sorting tables and lists

[Andrew Parsloe]

There are four scripts attached with this email and one 
compressed-format LyX document:


sortable.py, sortable_help.py -- a script for sorting tables in LyX, & 
its help file
sortlist.py, sortlist_help.py -- a script for sorting lists in LyX, & 
its help file

pLyXSorting(compressed).lyx -- an explanatory document with examples

The LyX document is in compressed LyX format. For the examples to work 
it must be saved in uncompressed format. (The pLyX system depends on LyX 
files being *text* files.) It contains some example tables and a 
substantial multi-level list to play with.


The table sorting script reworks for the pLyX system a script aired on 
this list back in September. On the developer's list I've noticed recent 
work to swap columns or swap rows in tables. I imagine once that is 
done, the next step will be hard to resist: go the whole way and sort 
the table. This might be a short-lived script.


The list sorting script is new and was harder to write because of the 
recursive calls to the sorting routine required by the (possible) 
presence of sub-lists. My underlying interest in sorting lists arose 
from a wish to sort indexes. (With their headings, subheadings, 
sub-subheadings, ... the logic is the same.)


Andrew


def helpnote(hv):
if hv > 1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort table
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (15 December 2012) Columns can be sorted more than once for
 inter-filed mixed-case alphabetical sorting.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.4 (1 November 2012) First version for pLyX system.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.3 (17 September 2012) Use of custom insets; yellow notes option,
 hrules and vrules preserved.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 September 2012) Script now ignores ERT insets.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (12 September 2012 Table sorting script posted to user's list.
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort the
\emph on
 rows
\emph default
 by the values in specified columns.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Global options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
-
\series bold
h  --help
\series default
  show this help note.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-v --version
\series default
  show version information.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
-n  --notes
\series default
make LyX's (yellow) notes sortable; notes are
 sort-neutral by default.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
Local options
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
A sort specification is a sequence like 
\series bold
2a3A1+
\series default
 (or 
\series bold
2a 3A 1+
\series default
 or 
\series bold
2a
\series default
,
\series bold
 3A
\series default
,
\series bold
 1+
\series default
, etc.) where the number indicates the column and the qualifying letter or
 sign indicates the kind of sort. A specification may involve from one to
 all columns in the table and a column may appear in the spec. more than once.
 The primary sort is by the first column specified, the secondary sort by
 the second column, etc. 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
a, A, +
\series default
 indicate ascending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
z, Z, -
\series default
 indicate descending sorts; 
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
letters indicate alphabetical sorts, uppercase indicating case sensitivity;
\end_layout
\begin_layout Itemize
\family roman
\series bold
+, -
\series default
 indicate numerical sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
The 
\emph on
next
\emph default
 and subsequent rows of a table following a sort specification are sorted.
 For neat alphabetical sorts involving inter-filed mixed case, specify columns
 twice, e.g. 
\series bold
1a1A
\series default
 for an AaBbCc ... sort, or
\series bold
1a1Z
\series default
 for an aAbBcC ... sort.
\end_layout
'''




def helpnote(hv):
if hv > 1:
return header + version
else:
return header + tail

header = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
\series bold
.sort list
\end_layout
'''
version = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 1.0 (16 December 2012) Allow secondary, tertiary, etc. sorts.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.2 (13 December 2012) Include -a and -n options.
\end_layout
\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Version 0.1 (8 November 2012)
\end_layout
'''
tail = r'''\begin_layout LyX-Code
\family roman
Sort one or more lists and sub-lists.
\begin_layout LyX-Code

\end_layout
\be

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 7:59 p.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)


Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying built-in the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified 
*externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). 
My solution to this problem has been to write another script which 
overwrites the current buffer with the backup file. This script is 
accessible with a further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. 
If something goes wrong, recovery is two clicks away.


Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring 
an alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I 
needed a single python master script which would call the relevant 
sub-script to sort a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or 
do a calculation ... according to a signal in the document. That way 
only one alternative LyX format was needed. I've used custom insets to 
provide the signal. Doing things this way also means that the same 
toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can be used in all cases. I'm working on 
a find--replace script (e.g. across paragraph boundaries) at the 
moment, and have documentation to write and no doubt will burden the 
list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified
 *externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). My

I see. What about using the CLI: Can LyX compare two documents from
the command line, and then output a third that 'tracks changes'
between the two?

If this were possible, then in theory it would be possible to come up
with a script that takes the original file, saves the processed files
to some temporary name, has LyX compare the two and output a third
file that tracks the changes between the two, and the loads this last
file in the LyX buffer. This way the user can check that all went
fine, and reject changes if not.


 solution to this problem has been to write another script which overwrites
 the current buffer with the backup file. This script is accessible with a
 further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. If something goes
 wrong, recovery is two clicks away.

 Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring an
 alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I needed a
 single python master script which would call the relevant sub-script to sort
 a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or do a calculation ...
 according to a signal in the document. That way only one alternative LyX
 format was needed. I've used custom insets to provide the signal. Doing
 things this way also means that the same toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can
 be used in all cases. I'm working on a find--replace script (e.g. across
 paragraph boundaries) at the moment, and have documentation to write and no
 doubt will burden the list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.

Looking forward to this.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 7:59 p.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)


Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying built-in the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified 
*externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). 
My solution to this problem has been to write another script which 
overwrites the current buffer with the backup file. This script is 
accessible with a further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. 
If something goes wrong, recovery is two clicks away.


Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring 
an alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I 
needed a single python master script which would call the relevant 
sub-script to sort a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or 
do a calculation ... according to a signal in the document. That way 
only one alternative LyX format was needed. I've used custom insets to 
provide the signal. Doing things this way also means that the same 
toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can be used in all cases. I'm working on 
a find--replace script (e.g. across paragraph boundaries) at the 
moment, and have documentation to write and no doubt will burden the 
list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified
 *externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). My

I see. What about using the CLI: Can LyX compare two documents from
the command line, and then output a third that 'tracks changes'
between the two?

If this were possible, then in theory it would be possible to come up
with a script that takes the original file, saves the processed files
to some temporary name, has LyX compare the two and output a third
file that tracks the changes between the two, and the loads this last
file in the LyX buffer. This way the user can check that all went
fine, and reject changes if not.


 solution to this problem has been to write another script which overwrites
 the current buffer with the backup file. This script is accessible with a
 further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. If something goes
 wrong, recovery is two clicks away.

 Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring an
 alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I needed a
 single python master script which would call the relevant sub-script to sort
 a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or do a calculation ...
 according to a signal in the document. That way only one alternative LyX
 format was needed. I've used custom insets to provide the signal. Doing
 things this way also means that the same toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can
 be used in all cases. I'm working on a find--replace script (e.g. across
 paragraph boundaries) at the moment, and have documentation to write and no
 doubt will burden the list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.

Looking forward to this.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 7:59 p.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)


Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying "built-in" the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified 
*externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). 
My solution to this problem has been to write another script which 
overwrites the current buffer with the backup file. This script is 
accessible with a further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. 
If something goes wrong, recovery is two clicks away.


Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring 
an alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I 
needed a single python master script which would call the relevant 
sub-script to sort a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or 
do a calculation ... according to a signal in the document. That way 
only one alternative LyX format was needed. I've used custom insets to 
provide the signal. Doing things this way also means that the same 
toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can be used in all cases. I'm working on 
a find-&-replace script (e.g. across paragraph boundaries) at the 
moment, and have documentation to write and no doubt will burden the 
list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:
> I don't think change tracking works here, since the file is modified
> *externally* (the built-in feel, although pleasing, is pure illusion). My
>
I see. What about using the CLI: Can LyX compare two documents from
the command line, and then output a third that 'tracks changes'
between the two?

If this were possible, then in theory it would be possible to come up
with a script that takes the original file, saves the processed files
to some temporary name, has LyX compare the two and output a third
file that tracks the changes between the two, and the loads this last
file in the LyX buffer. This way the user can check that all went
fine, and reject changes if not.


> solution to this problem has been to write another script which overwrites
> the current buffer with the backup file. This script is accessible with a
> further toolbar button and the buffer-reload button. If something goes
> wrong, recovery is two clicks away.
>
> Since I have a number of scripts exploiting the 'trick', each requiring an
> alternatively named LyX format, I realised at some point that I needed a
> single python master script which would call the relevant sub-script to sort
> a table or sort a list or expand an abbreviation or do a calculation ...
> according to a signal in the document. That way only one alternative LyX
> format was needed. I've used custom insets to provide the signal. Doing
> things this way also means that the same toolbar buttons (or shortcuts) can
> be used in all cases. I'm working on a find-&-replace script (e.g. across
> paragraph boundaries) at the moment, and have documentation to write and no
> doubt will burden the list with this sometime in the weeks ahead.
>
Looking forward to this.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
 containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
 document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
 it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
 adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
 export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
 that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
 alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
 vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
 table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
 affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
 the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
 the same document can be sorted at one go.

 Andrew


Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 1:13 p.m., Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
the same document can be sorted at one go.

Andrew



Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott


Thanks for the comments Scott. It's on the Wiki at

http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/SortingTablesInLyX

(Examples seems to be something of a catch-all) which includes a link 
to the MARC archive where the files are:


http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=134800934727097w=2

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX 
format, but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other 
tasks (e.g. sorting lists, expanding abbreviations) and tried to sell 
the idea of a proper GUI for launching such scripts to the developers 
recently (see http://marc.info/?l=lyx-develm=135273675419027w=2).


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
 but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
 sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)

Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying built-in the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
 containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
 document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
 it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
 adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
 export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
 that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
 alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
 vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
 table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
 affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
 the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
 the same document can be sorted at one go.

 Andrew


Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 1:13 p.m., Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
the same document can be sorted at one go.

Andrew



Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott


Thanks for the comments Scott. It's on the Wiki at

http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/SortingTablesInLyX

(Examples seems to be something of a catch-all) which includes a link 
to the MARC archive where the files are:


http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=134800934727097w=2

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX 
format, but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other 
tasks (e.g. sorting lists, expanding abbreviations) and tried to sell 
the idea of a proper GUI for launching such scripts to the developers 
recently (see http://marc.info/?l=lyx-develm=135273675419027w=2).


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
 but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
 sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)

Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying built-in the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:
> I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
> containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
> document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
> it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
> adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
> export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
> that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels "built-in". Sorts may be
> alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal &
> vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
> table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
> affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
> the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
> the same document can be sorted at one go.
>
> Andrew
>

Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 28/11/2012 1:13 p.m., Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels "built-in". Sorts may be
alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal &
vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
the same document can be sorted at one go.

Andrew



Thank you for this, Andrew. This work is very creative. I'm especially
impressed by your excellent documentation. Is this on the wiki
somewhere?

Scott


Thanks for the comments Scott. It's on the Wiki at

http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/SortingTablesInLyX

("Examples" seems to be something of a catch-all) which includes a link 
to the MARC archive where the files are:


http://marc.info/?l=lyx-users=134800934727097=2

I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX 
format, but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other 
tasks (e.g. sorting lists, expanding abbreviations) and tried to sell 
the idea of a proper GUI for launching such scripts to the developers 
recently (see http://marc.info/?l=lyx-devel=135273675419027=2).


Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:
> I've used the same trick (exporting to an alternatively named LyX format,
> but retaining the lyx file extension) for a number of other tasks (e.g.
> sorting lists, expanding abbreviations)
>
Quick question: Would it be a good idea to turn Track Changes on
before launching the script and modifying "built-in" the .lyx file?
This way the user can check that nothing funny happened to her file
(the parts that shouldn't have been modified), and visually check the
changes that happened to the parts that should have been modified.

Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 - Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
 note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
 this handling confusing.)

 (Ah, you too type teh for the.)

Oh, I stopped paying attention to such spelling errors some time ago.
:) I type very fast, and often after pressing a 't' with my left hand
the 'e' gets hit faster than the 'h'. I guess I should scold my right
hand.


 The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends the
 unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to retrieve the
 situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just rescued myself from
 an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And that suggests another
 issue which I'll put to the developers: the visibility of .lyx~ files as on
 option in LyX's Open dialog.)

This is still living dangerously. The backups shouldn't be taken for
granted: The option can be disabled in LyX Prefs. It would be nice if
the approach could be slightly redesigned, but my understanding is
that the implementation is stretching the limits of what LyX allows
users to do.

Maybe the Update  LyX (table) is the better approach: It may feel
less built-in, but it would give people more control over the process.

Thanks
Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 - Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
 note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
 this handling confusing.)

 (Ah, you too type teh for the.)

Oh, I stopped paying attention to such spelling errors some time ago.
:) I type very fast, and often after pressing a 't' with my left hand
the 'e' gets hit faster than the 'h'. I guess I should scold my right
hand.


 The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends the
 unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to retrieve the
 situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just rescued myself from
 an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And that suggests another
 issue which I'll put to the developers: the visibility of .lyx~ files as on
 option in LyX's Open dialog.)

This is still living dangerously. The backups shouldn't be taken for
granted: The option can be disabled in LyX Prefs. It would be nice if
the approach could be slightly redesigned, but my understanding is
that the implementation is stretching the limits of what LyX allows
users to do.

Maybe the Update  LyX (table) is the better approach: It may feel
less built-in, but it would give people more control over the process.

Thanks
Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:
>> - Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
>> note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
>> this handling confusing.)
>
> (Ah, you too type "teh" for "the".)
>
Oh, I stopped paying attention to such spelling errors some time ago.
:) I type very fast, and often after pressing a 't' with my left hand
the 'e' gets hit faster than the 'h'. I guess I should scold my right
hand.


> The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends the
> unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to retrieve the
> situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just rescued myself from
> an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And that suggests another
> issue which I'll put to the developers: the visibility of .lyx~ files as on
> option in LyX's Open dialog.)
>
This is still living dangerously. The backups shouldn't be taken for
granted: The option can be disabled in LyX Prefs. It would be nice if
the approach could be slightly redesigned, but my understanding is
that the implementation is stretching the limits of what LyX allows
users to do.

Maybe the Update > LyX (table) is the better approach: It may feel
less built-in, but it would give people more control over the process.

Thanks
Liviu

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
 containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
 document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use

Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'
- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)

Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.

All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


 it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
 adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
 export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
 that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
 alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
 vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
 table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
 affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
 the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
 the same document can be sorted at one go.

 Andrew




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 25/09/2012 8:59 a.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


OK.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use


Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'


Sigh (so much for the years I spent as a proofreader/indexer).


- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)


(Ah, you too type teh for the.) I should have noted Add and Apply. 
I'll adjust the text.


Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
I'll put the entire unsorted table with its sort spec. in a yellow note. 
It sorts within the note, and the reader can then compare the result 
with the sorted table in the text proper.



- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.


The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends 
the unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to 
retrieve the situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just 
rescued myself from an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And 
that suggests another issue which I'll put to the developers: the 
visibility of .lyx~ files as on option in LyX's Open dialog.)




All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


Thanks for the encouraging remarks.

Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:
 I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
 containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
 document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use

Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'
- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)

Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.

All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


 it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
 adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
 export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
 that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels built-in. Sorts may be
 alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal 
 vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
 table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
 affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
 the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
 the same document can be sorted at one go.

 Andrew




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 25/09/2012 8:59 a.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


OK.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe apars...@clear.net.nz wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use


Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'


Sigh (so much for the years I spent as a proofreader/indexer).


- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)


(Ah, you too type teh for the.) I should have noted Add and Apply. 
I'll adjust the text.


Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
I'll put the entire unsorted table with its sort spec. in a yellow note. 
It sorts within the note, and the reader can then compare the result 
with the sorted table in the text proper.



- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.


The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends 
the unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to 
retrieve the situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just 
rescued myself from an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And 
that suggests another issue which I'll put to the developers: the 
visibility of .lyx~ files as on option in LyX's Open dialog.)




All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


Thanks for the encouraging remarks.

Andrew

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:
> I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
> containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
> document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use
>
Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'
- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)

Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.

All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


> it. In this third incarnation of the script, by using the custom inset,
> adding three buttons to the table toolbar, and changing the Overwrite on
> export setting, it is possible to sort the rows of tables in LyX in a manner
> that avoids all nag/query/prompt messages and feels "built-in". Sorts may be
> alphabetical or numerical, ascending or descending. The default horizontal &
> vertical rules delineating table cells are not disturbed by the sort. ERT in
> table cells has no effect. Yellow (or other) notes by default also do not
> affect the sort, but this can be changed with the -y option when invoking
> the script, allowing fine-tuning of sort order. Finally, multiple tables in
> the same document can be sorted at one go.
>
> Andrew
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Sorting tables in LyX

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 25/09/2012 8:59 a.m., Liviu Andronic wrote:

Andrew
Your script and module are great, and this is a functionality that
deserves getting into base LyX. Maybe worth opening a bug report for
this.


OK.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:

I've attached a python script, tablesort.py, a module tablesort.module
containing a custom inset (suggested by Liviu Andronic), and an explanatory
document, SortingTablesInLyX.lyx detailing what goes where and how to use


Several comments:
- In the intro, 'TabelSort' should be 'TableSort'


Sigh (so much for the years I spent as a proofreader/indexer).


- Section 2.1: After defining the 'Converter box', it would help to
note that next teh user has to click Add and Apply. (Personally I find
this handling confusing.)


(Ah, you too type "teh" for "the".) I should have noted Add and Apply. 
I'll adjust the text.


Some suggestions:
- Put '1A 2A 3A 4+' in a Note so that the user could easily dissolve
the inset and try to execute teh sorting procedure.
I'll put the entire unsorted table with its sort spec. in a yellow note. 
It sorts within the note, and the reader can then compare the result 
with the sorted table in the text proper.



- My only objection when using the buffer-write; buffer-export
lyxtabsort;buffer-reload; sequence (run manually) is that after saving
the file, the file gets modified by a script and overwrites the
original file. The buffer is not marked as 'dirty', and there is no
Undo to the previous, unsorted tables. That's a bit dangerous. But I'm
not sure how this could be improved.


The .lyx~ back-up file is still there. The initial buffer-write sends 
the unsorted .lyx file to .lyx~, so it should still be possible to 
retrieve the situation if the overwrite goes wrong. In fact I've just 
rescued myself from an unwanted overwrite by exactly this means. (And 
that suggests another issue which I'll put to the developers: the 
visibility of .lyx~ files as on option in LyX's Open dialog.)




All in all excellent work! I hope that the async lfuns issue can be
solved so that sorting can be executed in one go (a button or a
shortcut). Again, I think that this functionality would be worth
integrating into LyX, and even providing some GUI for selecting the
sorting criteria.

Regards
Liviu


Thanks for the encouraging remarks.

Andrew

Redefinition of title (LONG) [Was: Re: sorting tables?]

[Matej Cepl]

On 2003-05-28, 06:16 GMT, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
 inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
 than centered, and so on through many choices.
 
 The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
 and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

If using standard article, then you can redefine [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is 
actually not so difficult. This is the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (taken directly from article.cls):

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

Copy this whole piece of code into your Layout/Document/Preamble and 
View/DVI again (just to check, that everything is OK). Then you can play 
with it a little bit. For example, I really prefer boldfaced title so 
I change [EMAIL PROTECTED] in this way:

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE \bfseries [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}% %\bfseries added here
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

In other cases I do not want to have date in a title of my package.
There are some tricks for doing that easy way (either add empty \date{}
into Layout/Document/Preamble or just put hardspace into Date style --
which both leads to the same) documented in LyX documentation. However,
both of them have a disadvantage that they leave too obviously huge
space after title. It is better to delete part which typesets date in
title.
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}}%%\par}%
   %%\vskip 1em%  % Commented out for better understanding
   %%{\large [EMAIL PROTECTED] % You can of course just deleted this
 % part of code altogether.
 \end{center}%
 \par 
 \vskip 1.5em}

And of course, you can resolve your problem with left aligned title in 
this way as well. If you take a look into the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] above, whole [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] typesetting 
(which 
obviously contains what you want title and author be) is in center 
environment. Therefore just removing \begin{center} and \end{center} 
would do what you want. What will including something like this make 
with your document?

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

The last advice: if you need to understand LaTeX commands take a look at  
lshort.dvi in your TeX distribution and run 'info latex' (or LaTeX2e 
help file if you are on Windows) for reference to individual commands of  
LaTeX. For example be sure before your own fiddling with [EMAIL PROTECTED] to 
understand difference between command and declaration, i.e. between 
\bfseries and \textbf. You should be also aware of subtle differences 
between effects of some similar environments and declarations, 
e.g., \begin{center}\end{center} creates new paragraph (as every 
environment does), whereas \centering does not (so you have to \par in 
the end of paragraph).

   Enjoy,

  Matej

-- 
Matej Cepl,
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488

Redefinition of title (LONG) [Was: Re: sorting tables?]

[Matej Cepl]

On 2003-05-28, 06:16 GMT, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
 inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
 than centered, and so on through many choices.
 
 The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
 and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

If using standard article, then you can redefine [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is 
actually not so difficult. This is the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (taken directly from article.cls):

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

Copy this whole piece of code into your Layout/Document/Preamble and 
View/DVI again (just to check, that everything is OK). Then you can play 
with it a little bit. For example, I really prefer boldfaced title so 
I change [EMAIL PROTECTED] in this way:

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE \bfseries [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}% %\bfseries added here
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

In other cases I do not want to have date in a title of my package.
There are some tricks for doing that easy way (either add empty \date{}
into Layout/Document/Preamble or just put hardspace into Date style --
which both leads to the same) documented in LyX documentation. However,
both of them have a disadvantage that they leave too obviously huge
space after title. It is better to delete part which typesets date in
title.
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}}%%\par}%
   %%\vskip 1em%  % Commented out for better understanding
   %%{\large [EMAIL PROTECTED] % You can of course just deleted this
 % part of code altogether.
 \end{center}%
 \par 
 \vskip 1.5em}

And of course, you can resolve your problem with left aligned title in 
this way as well. If you take a look into the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] above, whole [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] typesetting 
(which 
obviously contains what you want title and author be) is in center 
environment. Therefore just removing \begin{center} and \end{center} 
would do what you want. What will including something like this make 
with your document?

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

The last advice: if you need to understand LaTeX commands take a look at  
lshort.dvi in your TeX distribution and run 'info latex' (or LaTeX2e 
help file if you are on Windows) for reference to individual commands of  
LaTeX. For example be sure before your own fiddling with [EMAIL PROTECTED] to 
understand difference between command and declaration, i.e. between 
\bfseries and \textbf. You should be also aware of subtle differences 
between effects of some similar environments and declarations, 
e.g., \begin{center}\end{center} creates new paragraph (as every 
environment does), whereas \centering does not (so you have to \par in 
the end of paragraph).

   Enjoy,

  Matej

-- 
Matej Cepl,
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488

Redefinition of title (LONG) [Was: Re: sorting tables?]

[Matej Cepl]

On 2003-05-28, 06:16 GMT, Andre Poenitz wrote:
>> Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
>> inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
>> than centered, and so on through many choices.
> 
> The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
> and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

If using standard article, then you can redefine [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is 
actually not so difficult. This is the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (taken directly from article.cls):

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

Copy this whole piece of code into your Layout/Document/Preamble and 
View/DVI again (just to check, that everything is OK). Then you can play 
with it a little bit. For example, I really prefer boldfaced title so 
I change [EMAIL PROTECTED] in this way:

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE \bfseries [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}% %\bfseries added here
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{center}%
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

In other cases I do not want to have date in a title of my package.
There are some tricks for doing that easy way (either add empty \date{}
into Layout/Document/Preamble or just put hardspace into Date style --
which both leads to the same) documented in LyX documentation. However,
both of them have a disadvantage that they leave too obviously huge
space after title. It is better to delete part which typesets date in
title.
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \begin{center}%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}}%%\par}%
   %%\vskip 1em%  % Commented out for better understanding
   %%{\large [EMAIL PROTECTED] % You can of course just deleted this
 % part of code altogether.
 \end{center}%
 \par 
 \vskip 1.5em}

And of course, you can resolve your problem with left aligned title in 
this way as well. If you take a look into the original definition of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] above, whole [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] typesetting 
(which 
obviously contains what you want title and author be) is in center 
environment. Therefore just removing \begin{center} and \end{center} 
would do what you want. What will including something like this make 
with your document?

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \newpage
 \null
 \vskip 2em%
 \let \footnote \thanks
   {\LARGE [EMAIL PROTECTED] \par}%
   \vskip 1.5em%
   {\large
 \lineskip .5em%
 \begin{tabular}[t]{c}%
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \end{tabular}\par}%
   \vskip 1em%
   {\large [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \par
 \vskip 1.5em}

The last advice: if you need to understand LaTeX commands take a look at  
lshort.dvi in your TeX distribution and run 'info latex' (or LaTeX2e 
help file if you are on Windows) for reference to individual commands of  
LaTeX. For example be sure before your own fiddling with [EMAIL PROTECTED] to 
understand difference between command and declaration, i.e. between 
\bfseries and \textbf. You should be also aware of subtle differences 
between effects of some similar environments and declarations, 
e.g., \begin{center}\end{center} creates new paragraph (as every 
environment does), whereas \centering does not (so you have to \par in 
the end of paragraph).

   Enjoy,

  Matej

-- 
Matej Cepl,
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
138 Highland Ave. #10, Somerville, Ma 02143, (617) 623-1488

Re: sorting tables?

[James Frye]

On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:

 Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
 them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
 my interest in making that accessible is limited.

I'd say instead that the default spacing c follows rules laid down by
certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
to good.  Just for instance, the default new paragraph action is,
IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
paragraphs.  Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
than centered, and so on through many choices.

Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
preference.

What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
change such things.  If I'm e.g. writing a paper for journal X, of course
I select and use their style, but that's not what I want or need for
everyday use.

James 

Re: sorting tables?

[Andre Poenitz]

On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 02:34:20PM -0700, James Frye wrote:
 On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
  Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
  them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
  my interest in making that accessible is limited.
 
 I'd say instead that the default spacing c follows rules laid down by
 certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
 to good.  Just for instance, the default new paragraph action is,
 IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
 fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
 paragraphs. 

So do I, probably because it's not too uncommon in German typesetting.
For such things there are standard solutions and som of them are even
supported by LyX, in this case Layout-Document-Skip.

 Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
 inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
 than centered, and so on through many choices.

The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

 Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
 defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
 set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
 preference.

Proof by Authority ;-)
 
 What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
 change such things.

A style editor for logical markup would be nice indeed

In fact, I think you guys have a valid point. And if I am taking a somewhat
stonger stance than absolutely needed this is because I don't like the
reasoning 'You have to make such and such easy because it is easy in
Word'. It does not necessarily mean, that 'such' must not be easy

Andre'

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have,
nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)

Re: sorting tables?

[James Frye]

On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:

 Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
 them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
 my interest in making that accessible is limited.

I'd say instead that the default spacing c follows rules laid down by
certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
to good.  Just for instance, the default new paragraph action is,
IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
paragraphs.  Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
than centered, and so on through many choices.

Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
preference.

What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
change such things.  If I'm e.g. writing a paper for journal X, of course
I select and use their style, but that's not what I want or need for
everyday use.

James 

Re: sorting tables?

[Andre Poenitz]

On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 02:34:20PM -0700, James Frye wrote:
 On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
  Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
  them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
  my interest in making that accessible is limited.
 
 I'd say instead that the default spacing c follows rules laid down by
 certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
 to good.  Just for instance, the default new paragraph action is,
 IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
 fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
 paragraphs. 

So do I, probably because it's not too uncommon in German typesetting.
For such things there are standard solutions and som of them are even
supported by LyX, in this case Layout-Document-Skip.

 Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
 inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
 than centered, and so on through many choices.

The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

 Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
 defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
 set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
 preference.

Proof by Authority ;-)
 
 What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
 change such things.

A style editor for logical markup would be nice indeed

In fact, I think you guys have a valid point. And if I am taking a somewhat
stonger stance than absolutely needed this is because I don't like the
reasoning 'You have to make such and such easy because it is easy in
Word'. It does not necessarily mean, that 'such' must not be easy

Andre'

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have,
nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)

Re: sorting tables?

[James Frye]

On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:

> Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
> them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
> my interest in making that accessible is limited.

I'd say instead that the default spacing  follows rules laid down by
certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
to "good".  Just for instance, the default "new paragraph" action is,
IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
paragraphs.  Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
than centered, and so on through many choices.

Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
preference.

What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
change such things.  If I'm e.g. writing a paper for journal X, of course
I select and use their style, but that's not what I want or need for
everyday use.

James 

Re: sorting tables?

[Andre Poenitz]

On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 02:34:20PM -0700, James Frye wrote:
> On Mon, 26 May 2003, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> 
> > Same here. The default spacing follow good type setting style. Exposing
> > them to the casual user is likely to produce bad typesetting, so at least
> > my interest in making that accessible is limited.
> 
> I'd say instead that the default spacing  follows rules laid down by
> certain academic journals and suchlike.  That does not necessarily equate
> to "good".  Just for instance, the default "new paragraph" action is,
> IIRC, to indent but not to add space.  Now if your journal wants that,
> fine, but for my own use I want no indent and a blank line between
> paragraphs. 

So do I, probably because it's not too uncommon in German typesetting.
For such things there are standard solutions and som of them are even
supported by LyX, in this case Layout->Document->Skip.

> Likewise I don't want a default 10 point typeface with 1.5
> inch margins on each side, I want a title that's left-justified rather
> than centered, and so on through many choices.

The point is: You can do that, but it hurts a bit. So if you really want it
and know what you do you can do it. But you don't do it accidentally.

> Of course there are some things that are indeed bad typesetting, I would
> defy anyone to give a logical reason why any of the options I'd like to
> set are bad in any objective sense, rather than just a matter of personal
> preference.

Proof by Authority ;-)
 
> What I would like is some sort of style editor that would let me easily
> change such things.

A style editor for logical markup would be nice indeed

In fact, I think you guys have a valid point. And if I am taking a somewhat
stonger stance than absolutely needed this is because I don't like the
reasoning 'You have to make such and such easy because it is easy in
Word'. It does not necessarily mean, that 'such' must not be easy

Andre'

-- 
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have,
nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson or B. Franklin or both...)

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 06:32:57PM +0200, Jean-Pierre.Chretien wrote:
 
  Hi Jean-Pierre,
I know that you made a question but I haven't seen it. I got only a
truncated message with quoted text...

This happens sometimes, and I don't know why... the only pattern I see
is that those messages are sent from sun machines...

   If I remember your question from mail-archive the answer is yes. Python
has one module to cgi.

-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 06:32:57PM +0200, Jean-Pierre.Chretien wrote:
 
  Hi Jean-Pierre,
I know that you made a question but I haven't seen it. I got only a
truncated message with quoted text...

This happens sometimes, and I don't know why... the only pattern I see
is that those messages are sent from sun machines...

   If I remember your question from mail-archive the answer is yes. Python
has one module to cgi.

-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 06:32:57PM +0200, Jean-Pierre.Chretien wrote:
> 
  Hi Jean-Pierre,
I know that you made a question but I haven't seen it. I got only a
truncated message with quoted text...

This happens sometimes, and I don't know why... the only pattern I see
is that those messages are sent from sun machines...

   If I remember your question from mail-archive the answer is yes. Python
has one module to cgi.

-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Francisco Stefano Wechsler]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, George De Bruin wrote:

 Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:04:55 -0500
 From: George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Reuben Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  LyX Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

 On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:

  There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather

 I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

 --
 George J. De Bruin
 Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
 0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!


  The site is OK. I connected to it last Friday, as well as today.

Francisco Stefano Wechsler  Diga não ao monopólio: use Gnu-Linux.
Dep. Prod. Expl. Animal Enviado por meio do PINE 4.33.
Fac. Med. Vet. Zoot.Que a força do pingüim esteja contigo!
UNESP
C.P. 560
18618-000 Botucatu, SP
Brasil

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

Okay, I sat back for a bit on this.  I didn't want to flood you while you 
were studying Baruch...

On Sunday 27 May 2001 01:21, Baruch Even wrote:
 I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
 developers too. 

Baruch, I assure you, I understand the developer's side better than you might 
know: I have been there.

 If we do not decide that a single language is the
 official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
 languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
 work for us to do. 

This is precisely where your logic fails, Baruch.  You are assuming limited 
resources of the team.  Why not require someone to specifically maintain each 
language supported by LyX?  Make it a pre-requisite for including a language 
in LyX's scripting support.  That way, the team isn't burdened with 
supporting each of the scripting languages.

 Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
 maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
 the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several

I think the GUI and the scripting languages are _very_ different situations 
from what I understand of things.  LyX was very much written around it's GUI 
initially, which has made it extremely difficult for implementing different 
GUI interfaces.  Enough so that there was some talk that LyX was going to be 
restructured to be GUI independent...  A project that seems to have been 
stalled.  And, it is *highly* desirable.  Just watch the KLyX mailing list... 
 While not a high volume, it still is getting regular posts.  This indicates 
that there is still interest in have GUI's for each environment.  I think 
this interest could easily be turned to support.

I believe this also holds true of scripting language support.

 This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for.

I held off on responding to this for a while...  But, I hope with your 
studies completed (at least temporarily) that you had the time to re-read 
that message.  If you haven't I would ask you to (assuming that your studies 
are done for a time), the points and problems I point out there are extremely 
significant in this situation.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Monday 28 May 2001 03:34, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
 George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 | Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus
 | on one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But,
 | as soon as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at
 | least six or more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

 Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Lars, I don't see it this way.  Part of the reason is that I don't stay 
within the box of looking at the development, or the development team as 
being static.  If the resources of the team were limited to the current 
group, I would say you were correct.

However, as I mentioned in my message to Baruch (which I've just posted), why 
not make it a prerequisite that for each language implemented there be 
someone (preferably outside the core development team) to implement and 
maintain each language.

 Even:
 | This is the same as the concept of GUI independence.

 I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
 implement _core_ functionality in LyX. 

Okay, I understand your point here.  However, think of this from the users 
side: what do they see when they start LyX: the GUI.  To the average user, 
the GUI is the program.

 IMO there should be _one_
 official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
 lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
 _If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
 could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
 language.

We get to disagree on this one. :)  If we go with one language, then we run 
into the current perception that is true with the GUI.  As it stands now 
(especially when you look at the website) LyX looks as if it is biased 
towards using XForms, and that very little work is being done on the GUI 
independence.  Add to that the responses on the KLyX mailing list to 
inquiries about it's functions (ie, use LyX instead) and you compound this 
impression.  You and I may know that isn't the case, but what else is a user 
going to think?

  btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
 functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.

I'd say as a starting point it would be a good idea to allow the LyX server 
commands to be exported to a library that can be used in scripting languages. 
But eventually, it needs to include some way of querying and setting internal 
states in LyX.

(Just my opinion...:)

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 23:46, Allan Rae wrote:

 FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
 use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
 Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
 editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
 of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
 who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

This would appear to support the idea I was putting forth: for each language, 
we should have someone (or multiple people) interested in doing the support 
of that langauge within LyX.  That way we (a) gain their expertise, and (b) 
we don't dilute the development efforts of the LyX Team.

 Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
 it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
 bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
 second language.

Would it be such a big deal if someone actually wanted to do it (ie, support 
Scheme/Lisp)?  Assuming that we make the space for them to work available, 
then we could share in knowledge, and gain from having more languages 
available.

And, this would probably work well for those interested in having Lua support 
as well

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Francisco Stefano Wechsler]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, George De Bruin wrote:

 Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:04:55 -0500
 From: George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Reuben Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  LyX Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

 On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:

  There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather

 I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

 --
 George J. De Bruin
 Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
 0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!


  The site is OK. I connected to it last Friday, as well as today.

Francisco Stefano Wechsler  Diga não ao monopólio: use Gnu-Linux.
Dep. Prod. Expl. Animal Enviado por meio do PINE 4.33.
Fac. Med. Vet. Zoot.Que a força do pingüim esteja contigo!
UNESP
C.P. 560
18618-000 Botucatu, SP
Brasil

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

Okay, I sat back for a bit on this.  I didn't want to flood you while you 
were studying Baruch...

On Sunday 27 May 2001 01:21, Baruch Even wrote:
 I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
 developers too. 

Baruch, I assure you, I understand the developer's side better than you might 
know: I have been there.

 If we do not decide that a single language is the
 official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
 languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
 work for us to do. 

This is precisely where your logic fails, Baruch.  You are assuming limited 
resources of the team.  Why not require someone to specifically maintain each 
language supported by LyX?  Make it a pre-requisite for including a language 
in LyX's scripting support.  That way, the team isn't burdened with 
supporting each of the scripting languages.

 Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
 maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
 the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several

I think the GUI and the scripting languages are _very_ different situations 
from what I understand of things.  LyX was very much written around it's GUI 
initially, which has made it extremely difficult for implementing different 
GUI interfaces.  Enough so that there was some talk that LyX was going to be 
restructured to be GUI independent...  A project that seems to have been 
stalled.  And, it is *highly* desirable.  Just watch the KLyX mailing list... 
 While not a high volume, it still is getting regular posts.  This indicates 
that there is still interest in have GUI's for each environment.  I think 
this interest could easily be turned to support.

I believe this also holds true of scripting language support.

 This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for.

I held off on responding to this for a while...  But, I hope with your 
studies completed (at least temporarily) that you had the time to re-read 
that message.  If you haven't I would ask you to (assuming that your studies 
are done for a time), the points and problems I point out there are extremely 
significant in this situation.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Monday 28 May 2001 03:34, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
 George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 | Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus
 | on one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But,
 | as soon as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at
 | least six or more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

 Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Lars, I don't see it this way.  Part of the reason is that I don't stay 
within the box of looking at the development, or the development team as 
being static.  If the resources of the team were limited to the current 
group, I would say you were correct.

However, as I mentioned in my message to Baruch (which I've just posted), why 
not make it a prerequisite that for each language implemented there be 
someone (preferably outside the core development team) to implement and 
maintain each language.

 Even:
 | This is the same as the concept of GUI independence.

 I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
 implement _core_ functionality in LyX. 

Okay, I understand your point here.  However, think of this from the users 
side: what do they see when they start LyX: the GUI.  To the average user, 
the GUI is the program.

 IMO there should be _one_
 official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
 lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
 _If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
 could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
 language.

We get to disagree on this one. :)  If we go with one language, then we run 
into the current perception that is true with the GUI.  As it stands now 
(especially when you look at the website) LyX looks as if it is biased 
towards using XForms, and that very little work is being done on the GUI 
independence.  Add to that the responses on the KLyX mailing list to 
inquiries about it's functions (ie, use LyX instead) and you compound this 
impression.  You and I may know that isn't the case, but what else is a user 
going to think?

  btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
 functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.

I'd say as a starting point it would be a good idea to allow the LyX server 
commands to be exported to a library that can be used in scripting languages. 
But eventually, it needs to include some way of querying and setting internal 
states in LyX.

(Just my opinion...:)

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 23:46, Allan Rae wrote:

 FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
 use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
 Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
 editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
 of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
 who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

This would appear to support the idea I was putting forth: for each language, 
we should have someone (or multiple people) interested in doing the support 
of that langauge within LyX.  That way we (a) gain their expertise, and (b) 
we don't dilute the development efforts of the LyX Team.

 Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
 it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
 bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
 second language.

Would it be such a big deal if someone actually wanted to do it (ie, support 
Scheme/Lisp)?  Assuming that we make the space for them to work available, 
then we could share in knowledge, and gain from having more languages 
available.

And, this would probably work well for those interested in having Lua support 
as well

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Francisco Stefano Wechsler]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, George De Bruin wrote:

> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:04:55 -0500
> From: George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Reuben Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  LyX Users mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)
>
> On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:
>
> > There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
>
> I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(
>
> --
> George J. De Bruin
> Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
> 0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!
>

  The site is OK. I connected to it last Friday, as well as today.

Francisco Stefano Wechsler  Diga não ao monopólio: use Gnu-Linux.
Dep. Prod. Expl. Animal Enviado por meio do PINE 4.33.
Fac. Med. Vet. Zoot.Que a força do pingüim esteja contigo!
UNESP
C.P. 560
18618-000 Botucatu, SP
Brasil

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

Okay, I sat back for a bit on this.  I didn't want to flood you while you 
were studying Baruch...

On Sunday 27 May 2001 01:21, Baruch Even wrote:
> I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
> developers too. 

Baruch, I assure you, I understand the developer's side better than you might 
know: I have been there.

> If we do not decide that a single language is the
> official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
> languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
> work for us to do. 

This is precisely where your logic fails, Baruch.  You are assuming limited 
resources of the team.  Why not require someone to specifically maintain each 
language supported by LyX?  Make it a pre-requisite for including a language 
in LyX's scripting support.  That way, the team isn't burdened with 
supporting each of the scripting languages.

> Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
> maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
> the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several

I think the GUI and the scripting languages are _very_ different situations 
from what I understand of things.  LyX was very much written around it's GUI 
initially, which has made it extremely difficult for implementing different 
GUI interfaces.  Enough so that there was some talk that LyX was going to be 
restructured to be GUI independent...  A project that seems to have been 
stalled.  And, it is *highly* desirable.  Just watch the KLyX mailing list... 
 While not a high volume, it still is getting regular posts.  This indicates 
that there is still interest in have GUI's for each environment.  I think 
this interest could easily be turned to support.

I believe this also holds true of scripting language support.

> This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for.

I held off on responding to this for a while...  But, I hope with your 
studies completed (at least temporarily) that you had the time to re-read 
that message.  If you haven't I would ask you to (assuming that your studies 
are done for a time), the points and problems I point out there are extremely 
significant in this situation.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Monday 28 May 2001 03:34, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
> George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> | Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus
> | on one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But,
> | as soon as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at
> | least six or more languages to avoid any perception of bias.
>
> Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Lars, I don't see it this way.  Part of the reason is that I don't stay 
within the box of looking at the development, or the development team as 
being static.  If the resources of the team were limited to the current 
group, I would say you were correct.

However, as I mentioned in my message to Baruch (which I've just posted), why 
not make it a prerequisite that for each language implemented there be 
someone (preferably outside the core development team) to implement and 
maintain each language.

> Even:
> | This is the same as the concept of GUI independence.
>
> I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
> implement _core_ functionality in LyX. 

Okay, I understand your point here.  However, think of this from the users 
side: what do they see when they start LyX: the GUI.  To the average user, 
the GUI is the program.

> IMO there should be _one_
> official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
> lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
> _If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
> could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
> language.

We get to disagree on this one. :)  If we go with one language, then we run 
into the current perception that is true with the GUI.  As it stands now 
(especially when you look at the website) LyX looks as if it is biased 
towards using XForms, and that very little work is being done on the GUI 
independence.  Add to that the responses on the KLyX mailing list to 
inquiries about it's functions (ie, use LyX instead) and you compound this 
impression.  You and I may know that isn't the case, but what else is a user 
going to think?

>  btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
> functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.

I'd say as a starting point it would be a good idea to allow the LyX server 
commands to be exported to a library that can be used in scripting languages. 
But eventually, it needs to include some way of querying and setting internal 
states in LyX.

(Just my opinion...:)

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 23:46, Allan Rae wrote:

> FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
> use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
> Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
> editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
> of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
> who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

This would appear to support the idea I was putting forth: for each language, 
we should have someone (or multiple people) interested in doing the support 
of that langauge within LyX.  That way we (a) gain their expertise, and (b) 
we don't dilute the development efforts of the LyX Team.

> Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
> it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
> bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
> second language.

Would it be such a big deal if someone actually wanted to do it (ie, support 
Scheme/Lisp)?  Assuming that we make the space for them to work available, 
then we could share in knowledge, and gain from having more languages 
available.

And, this would probably work well for those interested in having Lua support 
as well

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Erkko Airo]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:
 
  There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
 
 I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

The link above doesn't seem to work now, but there is a working mirror
at:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/lua/

e.airo
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/1122/
Erkon puheita on mukava kuunnella vaikkei niistä aina 
mitään tolkkua saakaan. P. Monto, Talouselämä 6/99

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Erkko Airo]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:
 
  There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
 
 I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

The link above doesn't seem to work now, but there is a working mirror
at:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/lua/

e.airo
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/1122/
Erkon puheita on mukava kuunnella vaikkei niistä aina 
mitään tolkkua saakaan. P. Monto, Talouselämä 6/99

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Erkko Airo]

On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:
> 
> > There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
> 
> I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

The link above doesn't seem to work now, but there is a working mirror
at:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/lua/

e.airo
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/1122/
"Erkon puheita on mukava kuunnella vaikkei niistä aina 
mitään tolkkua saakaan." P. Monto, Talouselämä 6/99

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:

 There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather

I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:

 There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather

I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[George De Bruin]

On Friday 01 June 2001 05:16, Reuben Thomas wrote:

> There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather

I just tried to go to this site, but couldn't connect to it...:(

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Reuben Thomas]

   Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
   it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
   bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
   second language.

There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
simpler, and was specifically designed a) to be embedded in applications and
b) as an application extension language. A typical build of the compiler/
run-time-system and standard library shared libraries is about 100kb (hence
you can easily link it statically if that's easier without much bloat).

It's a lovely little language with clean syntax, such that configuration
files can be written directly in it (if you like), and reflection of C
functions into Lua is extrememly easy.

Lua is BSD-ish licensed, and written in pure (and I do mean pure) ANSI C. It
compiles out of the box on almost anything (and it has been ported, among
other odd environments, to Palm OS, EPOC and RISC OS; indeed, on the last
two it compiles without alteration).

It is widely used as an embedded application control language, especially
for scripting game engines.

-- 
http://sc3d.org/rrt/ | Caution Children At Play Drive Slowly

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Reuben Thomas]

   Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
   it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
   bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
   second language.

There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
simpler, and was specifically designed a) to be embedded in applications and
b) as an application extension language. A typical build of the compiler/
run-time-system and standard library shared libraries is about 100kb (hence
you can easily link it statically if that's easier without much bloat).

It's a lovely little language with clean syntax, such that configuration
files can be written directly in it (if you like), and reflection of C
functions into Lua is extrememly easy.

Lua is BSD-ish licensed, and written in pure (and I do mean pure) ANSI C. It
compiles out of the box on almost anything (and it has been ported, among
other odd environments, to Palm OS, EPOC and RISC OS; indeed, on the last
two it compiles without alteration).

It is widely used as an embedded application control language, especially
for scripting game engines.

-- 
http://sc3d.org/rrt/ | Caution Children At Play Drive Slowly

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Reuben Thomas]

> > > Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
> > > it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
> > > bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
> > > second language.

There's also Lua (www.lua.org), which is much smaller than python, rather
simpler, and was specifically designed a) to be embedded in applications and
b) as an application extension language. A typical build of the compiler/
run-time-system and standard library shared libraries is about 100kb (hence
you can easily link it statically if that's easier without much bloat).

It's a lovely little language with clean syntax, such that configuration
files can be written directly in it (if you like), and reflection of C
functions into Lua is extrememly easy.

Lua is BSD-ish licensed, and written in pure (and I do mean pure) ANSI C. It
compiles out of the box on almost anything (and it has been ported, among
other odd environments, to Palm OS, EPOC and RISC OS; indeed, on the last
two it compiles without alteration).

It is widely used as an embedded application control language, especially
for scripting game engines.

-- 
http://sc3d.org/rrt/ | Caution Children At Play Drive Slowly

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Guenter Milde]

On Fri, 25 May 2001 08:54:50 +0200 wrote A.Gulino [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi folks,
 I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
 there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.

Hi Antonio,

thanks for that little script of yours- I like it and I like it to be well
documented :-)

It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
(unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)

1. Documentation
 If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
 Senseless will are delete.

This was not clear to me at all.
After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
what happens... I suppose you meant

 If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title, 
 the word Senseless will disappear.

2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
   completely, e.g.
  --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)
   --title= (no title)
   At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
   senseless title)
   
3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
  antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx

   It would be more straightformward, if one could do
   antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile
   to get mycsvfile.lyx and
   antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
   in case a different output filename is wanted.


4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
   rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
   collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
   (to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
   change it for all rows/collumns.

but, despite of my nagging - Thanks again for the good job

Dear Lyx-gurus,

could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

Guenter


Guenter


--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[A.Gulino]

I will change the english in the documentation (and the suggestion too, of
course)

When I have made the changes, I post it. The script self I will send it at you,
and
who ask me.
If someone want, I send the script (version 0.0.0fix1 :-) in the mailinglist
self.

Guenter Milde wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
  there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.
 It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
 (unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)
^
  perl, without a. it's a pearl, shur :-)

 1. Documentation
  If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
  Senseless will are delete.
 
 This was not clear to me at all.
 After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
 what happens... I suppose you meant
 
  If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title,
  the word Senseless will disappear.
disappear. I think you are right.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-) Auf jeden Fall, hatte ich
folgendes gemeint:
Wenn du eine normale tabelle willst, statt einer Floating-Tabelle, dann lösche
den Titel,
und schon verschwindet das Wort Senseless (das nicht editierbar ist)

 
 2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
completely, e.g.
   --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)
--title= (no title)
At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
senseless title)

Maybe, if I don't write caption. I must try.
But then i must include the following option
--nofloat

 3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
   antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx
 
It would be more straightformward, if one could do
antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile
to get mycsvfile.lyx and
antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
in case a different output filename is wanted.
I have an idea:
--fileoutput=mytmptable.whatyoutwant.lyxParExample (default: StandardOut =
Screen)
--lyxfile (without parameters) (the same as
--fileoutput=inputfilenameWithoutExtension.lyx)

 
 4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
(to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
change it for all rows/collumns.
I don't know if I have understand.
You want an option to tell at the script, that he must made a line on the top 
and on the bottom of the first row.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-)
Du möchtest al option die möglichkeit den Header (die erste Zeile) anders zu
formatieren.
z.B. die erste zeile mit linie oben und unten, die zeite zeile, oben. alle
anderen nicht.
die letzte nur unter.
Idee:
--header (without parameters, for the moment) (first row: line top and bottom,
second row: line top)
I use 1.1.4fix1, so my script must be compatible with this version.
Ok. Idea:
--version=1.1.4fix1

 
 could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
 in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

??? Sorry !
? You want let the mytmptable.lyx in a file. so if you change the csv-file you
dont must redo
the formatting.
In this case the optionslist must be longer. Maybe it is better use an html-like
syntax.
I-self want do somethings like this.
If you have some ideas...
A) table border=0|1
   th align=center|left|right = bold (align valid for the whole column)
B) --header (first row bold, line on top and bottom)
   --align=rlrcr (first column=right, second=left, thirt=right, 

Nicht unbedingt verstanden.
Meinst du: kann man dieses komische table.lyx als separates file lassen, oder
muss man
ihn unbedingt defintiv importiere?
Wenn diese die Frage war, dass habe ich folgende Antwort.
Habe noch nicht probiert. Möchte es aber. Dann sollte man die möglichkeit haben,
mit den optionen des perlscripts
auch die formatierung im griff zu bekommen.
Habe noch nicht entschieden ob ich weiter ein tab-sep-val file benütze, oder die
syntax con html.
Die syntax von html hat ja viele ähnliche funktionen: colspan,
align=right|left|center, width, border
Natürlich müsste man die Syntax ein weinig ändern, aber, wie der liebe Wall
sagt: eine tugend ist die Faulheit!

ciao,
antonio

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[ben]

Allan Rae a écrit :

 [...]

 Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
 it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
 bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
 second language.

What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

BG

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
 Allan Rae a écrit :
 
  [...]
 
  Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
  it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
  bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
  second language.
 
 What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
 language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
 Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

  Python is a general purpose, script language.
  
  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
just tell you why I like python over perl.

  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.

  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.

  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
C(++), when I need speed.

  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
other programs.

  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
  
  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.

  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.

  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
  
  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
http://www.python.org

 BG

  A-python-convict ly
-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jean-Pierre.Chretien]

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:09:14 +0100
From: Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LyX Users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)
Mail-Followup-To: LyX Users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
 Allan Rae a écrit :
 
  [...]
 
  Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
  it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
  bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
  second language.
 
 What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose 
this
 language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this 
language...
 Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

  Python is a general purpose, script language.
  
  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
just tell you why I like python over perl.

  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.

  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.

  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
C(++), when I need speed.

  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
other programs.

  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
  
  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.

  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.

  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
  
  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
http://www.python.org

 BG

  A-python-convict ly
-- 
José

Any equivalent of the CGI.pm Perl module and the various gateways
towards SGBD or OLE data structures ? (a bit off the LyX thread, but...)

-- 
Jean-Pierre

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Guenter Milde]

On Fri, 25 May 2001 08:54:50 +0200 wrote A.Gulino [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi folks,
 I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
 there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.

Hi Antonio,

thanks for that little script of yours- I like it and I like it to be well
documented :-)

It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
(unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)

1. Documentation
 If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
 Senseless will are delete.

This was not clear to me at all.
After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
what happens... I suppose you meant

 If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title, 
 the word Senseless will disappear.

2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
   completely, e.g.
  --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)
   --title= (no title)
   At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
   senseless title)
   
3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
  antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx

   It would be more straightformward, if one could do
   antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile
   to get mycsvfile.lyx and
   antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
   in case a different output filename is wanted.


4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
   rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
   collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
   (to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
   change it for all rows/collumns.

but, despite of my nagging - Thanks again for the good job

Dear Lyx-gurus,

could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

Guenter


Guenter


--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[A.Gulino]

I will change the english in the documentation (and the suggestion too, of
course)

When I have made the changes, I post it. The script self I will send it at you,
and
who ask me.
If someone want, I send the script (version 0.0.0fix1 :-) in the mailinglist
self.

Guenter Milde wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
  there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.
 It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
 (unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)
^
  perl, without a. it's a pearl, shur :-)

 1. Documentation
  If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
  Senseless will are delete.
 
 This was not clear to me at all.
 After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
 what happens... I suppose you meant
 
  If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title,
  the word Senseless will disappear.
disappear. I think you are right.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-) Auf jeden Fall, hatte ich
folgendes gemeint:
Wenn du eine normale tabelle willst, statt einer Floating-Tabelle, dann lösche
den Titel,
und schon verschwindet das Wort Senseless (das nicht editierbar ist)

 
 2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
completely, e.g.
   --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)
--title= (no title)
At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
senseless title)

Maybe, if I don't write caption. I must try.
But then i must include the following option
--nofloat

 3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
   antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx
 
It would be more straightformward, if one could do
antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile
to get mycsvfile.lyx and
antonio@bidone:~ csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
in case a different output filename is wanted.
I have an idea:
--fileoutput=mytmptable.whatyoutwant.lyxParExample (default: StandardOut =
Screen)
--lyxfile (without parameters) (the same as
--fileoutput=inputfilenameWithoutExtension.lyx)

 
 4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
(to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
change it for all rows/collumns.
I don't know if I have understand.
You want an option to tell at the script, that he must made a line on the top 
and on the bottom of the first row.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-)
Du möchtest al option die möglichkeit den Header (die erste Zeile) anders zu
formatieren.
z.B. die erste zeile mit linie oben und unten, die zeite zeile, oben. alle
anderen nicht.
die letzte nur unter.
Idee:
--header (without parameters, for the moment) (first row: line top and bottom,
second row: line top)
I use 1.1.4fix1, so my script must be compatible with this version.
Ok. Idea:
--version=1.1.4fix1

 
 could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
 in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

??? Sorry !
? You want let the mytmptable.lyx in a file. so if you change the csv-file you
dont must redo
the formatting.
In this case the optionslist must be longer. Maybe it is better use an html-like
syntax.
I-self want do somethings like this.
If you have some ideas...
A) table border=0|1
   th align=center|left|right = bold (align valid for the whole column)
B) --header (first row bold, line on top and bottom)
   --align=rlrcr (first column=right, second=left, thirt=right, 

Nicht unbedingt verstanden.
Meinst du: kann man dieses komische table.lyx als separates file lassen, oder
muss man
ihn unbedingt defintiv importiere?
Wenn diese die Frage war, dass habe ich folgende Antwort.
Habe noch nicht probiert. Möchte es aber. Dann sollte man die möglichkeit haben,
mit den optionen des perlscripts
auch die formatierung im griff zu bekommen.
Habe noch nicht entschieden ob ich weiter ein tab-sep-val file benütze, oder die
syntax con html.
Die syntax von html hat ja viele ähnliche funktionen: colspan,
align=right|left|center, width, border
Natürlich müsste man die Syntax ein weinig ändern, aber, wie der liebe Wall
sagt: eine tugend ist die Faulheit!

ciao,
antonio

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[ben]

Allan Rae a écrit :

 [...]

 Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
 it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
 bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
 second language.

What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

BG

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
 Allan Rae a écrit :
 
  [...]
 
  Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
  it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
  bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
  second language.
 
 What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
 language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
 Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

  Python is a general purpose, script language.
  
  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
just tell you why I like python over perl.

  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.

  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.

  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
C(++), when I need speed.

  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
other programs.

  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
  
  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.

  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.

  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
  
  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
http://www.python.org

 BG

  A-python-convict ly
-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jean-Pierre.Chretien]

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:09:14 +0100
From: Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LyX Users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)
Mail-Followup-To: LyX Users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
 Allan Rae a écrit :
 
  [...]
 
  Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
  it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
  bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
  second language.
 
 What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose 
this
 language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this 
language...
 Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

  Python is a general purpose, script language.
  
  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
just tell you why I like python over perl.

  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.

  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.

  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
C(++), when I need speed.

  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
other programs.

  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
  
  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.

  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.

  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
  
  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
http://www.python.org

 BG

  A-python-convict ly
-- 
José

Any equivalent of the CGI.pm Perl module and the various gateways
towards SGBD or OLE data structures ? (a bit off the LyX thread, but...)

-- 
Jean-Pierre

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Guenter Milde]

On Fri, 25 May 2001 08:54:50 +0200 wrote A.Gulino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi folks,
> I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
> there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.

Hi Antonio,

thanks for that little script of yours- I like it and I like it to be well
documented :-)

It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
(unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)

1. Documentation
> If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
> "Senseless" will are delete.

This was not clear to me at all.
After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
what happens... I suppose you meant

> If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title, 
> the word "Senseless" will disappear.

2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
   completely, e.g.
>  --title="A pretty title for a pretty table" (default:"Title of the LyX table")
   --title="" (no title)
   At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
   senseless title)
   
3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
>  antonio@bidone:~ >cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx > mytmptable.lyx

   It would be more straightformward, if one could do
   antonio@bidone:~ >csv2lyx mycsvfile
   to get mycsvfile.lyx and
   antonio@bidone:~ >csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
   in case a different output filename is wanted.


4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
   rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
   collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
   (to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
   change it for all rows/collumns.

but, despite of my nagging - Thanks again for the good job

Dear Lyx-gurus,

could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

Guenter


Guenter


--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[A.Gulino]

I will change the english in the documentation (and the suggestion too, of
course)

When I have made the changes, I post it. The script self I will send it at you,
and
who ask me.
If someone want, I send the script (version 0.0.0fix1 :-) in the mailinglist
self.

Guenter Milde wrote:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
> > there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.
> It works fine on my system - still I have some suggestions for improvements:
> (unfortunately I don't know pearl, so I cannot do this by myself easily)
^
  perl, without "a". it's a pearl, shur :-)

> 1. Documentation
> > If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
> > "Senseless" will are delete.
> 
> This was not clear to me at all.
> After considering to ask you to translate this to German, I found out by trying
> what happens... I suppose you meant
> 
> > If you don't want a float table, then you can delete the default-title,
> > the word "Senseless" will disappear.
"disappear". I think you are right.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-) Auf jeden Fall, hatte ich
folgendes gemeint:
Wenn du eine normale tabelle willst, statt einer Floating-Tabelle, dann lösche
den Titel,
und schon verschwindet das Wort "Senseless" (das nicht editierbar ist)

 
> 2. However, I would like if I had the option to turn off the title
>completely, e.g.
> >  --title="A pretty title for a pretty table" (default:"Title of the LyX table")
>--title="" (no title)
>At present, the word Senseless appears also in this case - with an empty
>senseless title)

Maybe, if I don't write "caption". I must try.
But then i must include the following option
--nofloat

> 3.HOW USE IT (under Linux):
> >  antonio@bidone:~ >cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx > mytmptable.lyx
> 
>It would be more straightformward, if one could do
>antonio@bidone:~ >csv2lyx mycsvfile
>to get mycsvfile.lyx and
>antonio@bidone:~ >csv2lyx mycsvfile  mytmptable.lyx
>in case a different output filename is wanted.
I have an idea:
--fileoutput="mytmptable.whatyoutwant.lyxParExample" (default: StandardOut =
Screen)
--lyxfile (without parameters) (the same as
--fileoutput="inputfilenameWithoutExtension.lyx")

 
> 4. I would much appreciate an option to turn on the lines separating
>rows/collumns. (one global option might do, possibly 2 for rows and
>collums separately: there is no problem to change one or two linesettings
>(to separate the first row, say) but it is quite a lot of clicking to
>change it for all rows/collumns.
I don't know if I have understand.
You want an option to tell at the script, that he must made a line on the top 
and on the bottom of the first row.
(sorry for the non-german-speaking-people :-)
Du möchtest al option die möglichkeit den Header (die erste Zeile) anders zu
formatieren.
z.B. die erste zeile mit linie oben und unten, die zeite zeile, oben. alle
anderen nicht.
die letzte nur unter.
Idee:
--header (without parameters, for the moment) (first row: line top and bottom,
second row: line top)
I use 1.1.4fix1, so my script must be compatible with this version.
Ok. Idea:
--version="1.1.4fix1"

 
> could this script be called from the external inset? Would the table then appear
> in the GUI or just a [external inset] button?

??? Sorry !
? You want let the mytmptable.lyx in a file. so if you change the csv-file you
dont must redo
the formatting.
In this case the optionslist must be longer. Maybe it is better use an html-like
syntax.
I-self want do somethings like this.
If you have some ideas...
A) 
= bold (align valid for the whole column)
B) --header (first row bold, line on top and bottom)
   --align="rlrcr" (first column=right, second=left, thirt=right, "

Nicht unbedingt verstanden.
Meinst du: kann man dieses komische table.lyx als separates file lassen, oder
muss man
ihn unbedingt defintiv importiere?
Wenn diese die Frage war, dass habe ich folgende Antwort.
Habe noch nicht probiert. Möchte es aber. Dann sollte man die möglichkeit haben,
mit den optionen des perlscripts
auch die formatierung im griff zu bekommen.
Habe noch nicht entschieden ob ich weiter ein tab-sep-val file benütze, oder die
syntax con html.
Die syntax von html hat ja viele ähnliche funktionen: colspan,
align="right|left|center", width, border
Natürlich müsste man die Syntax ein weinig ändern, aber, wie der liebe Wall
sagt: eine tugend ist die Faulheit!

ciao,
antonio

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[ben]

Allan Rae a écrit :

> [...]
>
> Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
> it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
> bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
> second language.

What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

BG

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
> Allan Rae a écrit :
> 
> > [...]
> >
> > Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
> > it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
> > bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
> > second language.
> 
> What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose this
> language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this language...
> Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.

  Python is a general purpose, script language.
  
  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
just tell you why I like python over perl.

  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.

  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.

  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
C(++), when I need speed.

  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
other programs.

  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
  
  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.

  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.

  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
  
  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
http://www.python.org

> BG

  A-python-convict ly
-- 
José

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Jean-Pierre.Chretien]

>>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:09:14 +0100
>>From: Jose Abilio Oliveira Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: LyX Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)
>>Mail-Followup-To: LyX Users <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
>>
>>On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 01:58:18PM +0200, ben wrote:
>>> Allan Rae a écrit :
>>> 
>>> > [...]
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
>>> > it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
>>> > bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
>>> > second language.
>>> 
>>> What are the advantages of python in comparison to perl? For what purpose 
this
>>> language was developped for? I ask this because I don't know this 
language...
>>> Besides, I agree that scheme/lisp is perfectly horrible.
>>
>>  Python is a general purpose, script language.
>>  
>>  I will not tell you what are the advantage of python over perl, I will
>>just tell you why I like python over perl.
>>
>>  I have used perl before, and now I use python because the syntax is very
>>clear, the programs are easy to read after two years without looking to them.
>>
>>  I like the clear OO model over the one in perl.
>>
>>  Most of the time I use it as prototype language before passing it to
>>C(++), when I need speed.
>>
>>  Other times I use it as glue language both to write the tools I use to
>>treat the simulation data I get and to automate the action of different
>>other programs.
>>
>>  The clear syntax is a big win for me, and although it is possible to write
>>programs that are easy to read with perl it is a lot more dificult to do so.
>>  
>>  I need lots of time to use number crunching programs and the Numerical
>>module is superb for that. I mention this because python is very easy to
>>extend. That was the reason why the authors of the Module decided to use it.
>>
>>  All the aspects of the language appear to be very well thought, and this
>>is a feeling that grows as you learn more about it.
>>
>>  One other feature I like is ability to run it in an interactive session.
>>  
>>  Just some thoughts, there is very good documentation at
>>http://www.python.org
>>
>>> BG
>>
>>  A-python-convict ly
>>-- 
>>José

Any equivalent of the CGI.pm Perl module and the various gateways
towards SGBD or OLE data structures ? (a bit off the LyX thread, but...)

-- 
Jean-Pierre

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Allan Rae]

On Sun, 27 May 2001, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
[...]
[ Baruch wrote this bit ]
  The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
  language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
  need the official language. There is a need however to make the
  scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
  most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

 That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
 was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
 admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
 likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
 as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.

 So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
 all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
 I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
 of Icon.

FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

Then as a second official language we have Perl.  Maybe this would
encourage Perl mongers to test and maintain the lonely reLyX.  Or we just
let the Python gurus rewrite reLyX in Python ;-)   Python is supposed to
be faster than Perl anyway :P

Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
second language.

Allan. (ARRae)

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Allan Rae]

On Sun, 27 May 2001, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
[...]
[ Baruch wrote this bit ]
  The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
  language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
  need the official language. There is a need however to make the
  scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
  most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

 That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
 was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
 admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
 likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
 as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.

 So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
 all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
 I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
 of Icon.

FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

Then as a second official language we have Perl.  Maybe this would
encourage Perl mongers to test and maintain the lonely reLyX.  Or we just
let the Python gurus rewrite reLyX in Python ;-)   Python is supposed to
be faster than Perl anyway :P

Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
second language.

Allan. (ARRae)

Re: Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Allan Rae]

On Sun, 27 May 2001, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
[...]
[ Baruch wrote this bit ]
> > The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
> > language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
> > need the official language. There is a need however to make the
> > scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
> > most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.
>
> That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
> was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
> admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
> likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
> as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.
>
> So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
> all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
> I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
> of Icon.

FWIW, a number of Python folk are interested in LyX -- both for personal
use (with python.cls etc.) and as a possible unofficial documenting tool.
Their official documenting tools are a couple of scripts and any text
editor and they aren't about to change that in a hurry.  I know a couple
of people in particular who are Python gurus (one's a Python Team member)
who would love to get their hands dirty in LyX (with Python of course).

Then as a second official language we have Perl.  Maybe this would
encourage Perl mongers to test and maintain the lonely reLyX.  Or we just
let the Python gurus rewrite reLyX in Python ;-)   Python is supposed to
be faster than Perl anyway :P

Anyway, past discussions have usually ended up with Python as best because
it's readable/writable even for newbies.  Scheme/Lisp usually dropped as a
bad idea because no-one cares to type all the ()'s and Perl as a possible
second language.

Allan. (ARRae)

Re: sorting tables?

[Lars Gullik Bjønnes]

George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

| Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
| one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
| as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
| more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Even:
| This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
implement _core_ functionality in LyX. IMO there should be _one_
official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
_If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
language.

... btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.
 
-- 
Lgb

Re: sorting tables?

[Lars Gullik Bjønnes]

George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

| Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
| one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
| as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
| more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Even:
| This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
implement _core_ functionality in LyX. IMO there should be _one_
official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
_If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
language.

... btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.
 
-- 
Lgb

Re: sorting tables?

[Lars Gullik Bjønnes]

George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

| Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
| one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
| as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
| more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

Perfect way to split development effort and get nothing done...

Even:
| This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

I do not quite agree, as said the scripting language would be used to
implement _core_ functionality in LyX. IMO there should be _one_
official scripting language that would need to have to be able to run
lyx. The scripting language would preferably we distributed with LyX.
_If_ someone would then like to use a different language with LyX that
could easily be done by having a module for the official scripting
language.

... btw If we are not going to use the scripting language for _core_
functions, then we can just do with the lyx server as it is now.
 
-- 
Lgb

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
developers too. If we do not decide that a single language is the
official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
work for us to do. We have better things to do than maintain the same
feature with more than one language.

Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several
GUIs does take a drain on our resources, effectively the non-XForms
development is on hold for now since most frontend developers are in
no-free-time mode. We all need to remember that the developers are doing
it all on their free time and for the fun and feeling of accomplishment
that they get from it, I know that I will not want to maintain some
feature in several scripts, though nobody forbids you or others to
maintain them in equivalent languages.

The script language support is not too hard, once there will be a
complete interface for this in LyX, adding a script language will depend
only on how hard it is to link it into LyX, with smart definitions, most
of the binding definitions can be done automatically. 

This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for. 

* George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010527 09:07]:
 On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:
 
 
  The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
  one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
  will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
  possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
  currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
 
 And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
 more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
 system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
 official anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
 mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are official as being an 
 endorsement for, or a bias towards the official item.
 
  The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
  language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
  need the official language. There is a need however to make the
 
 Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
 will get:
 
   Why is that?  I don't have the official language on my system, and you are 
   telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
   system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
   an application?  Forget it.
 
 Another reaction:
 
   That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
 
   Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.
 
  scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
  most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.
 
 Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the user/administrator*.  
 Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
 comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
 the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.
 
 Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
 one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
 as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
 more languages to avoid any perception of bias.
 
 This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 
 
 Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in
 
 -- 
 George J. De Bruin
 Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
 0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
developers too. If we do not decide that a single language is the
official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
work for us to do. We have better things to do than maintain the same
feature with more than one language.

Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several
GUIs does take a drain on our resources, effectively the non-XForms
development is on hold for now since most frontend developers are in
no-free-time mode. We all need to remember that the developers are doing
it all on their free time and for the fun and feeling of accomplishment
that they get from it, I know that I will not want to maintain some
feature in several scripts, though nobody forbids you or others to
maintain them in equivalent languages.

The script language support is not too hard, once there will be a
complete interface for this in LyX, adding a script language will depend
only on how hard it is to link it into LyX, with smart definitions, most
of the binding definitions can be done automatically. 

This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for. 

* George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010527 09:07]:
 On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:
 
 
  The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
  one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
  will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
  possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
  currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
 
 And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
 more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
 system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
 official anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
 mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are official as being an 
 endorsement for, or a bias towards the official item.
 
  The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
  language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
  need the official language. There is a need however to make the
 
 Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
 will get:
 
   Why is that?  I don't have the official language on my system, and you are 
   telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
   system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
   an application?  Forget it.
 
 Another reaction:
 
   That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
 
   Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.
 
  scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
  most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.
 
 Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the user/administrator*.  
 Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
 comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
 the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.
 
 Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
 one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
 as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
 more languages to avoid any perception of bias.
 
 This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 
 
 Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in
 
 -- 
 George J. De Bruin
 Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
 0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

I understand what you say, but you need to understand the side of the
developers too. If we do not decide that a single language is the
official language than any feature that is moved to the scripting
languages needs to be maintained in several languages, that's too much
work for us to do. We have better things to do than maintain the same
feature with more than one language.

Obviously, it is possible that some X language hacker will step up and
maintain a second language. We have that with GUII, but we still have
the XForms GUI as the officially sanctioned GUI. And maintaining several
GUIs does take a drain on our resources, effectively the non-XForms
development is on hold for now since most frontend developers are in
no-free-time mode. We all need to remember that the developers are doing
it all on their free time and for the fun and feeling of accomplishment
that they get from it, I know that I will not want to maintain some
feature in several scripts, though nobody forbids you or others to
maintain them in equivalent languages.

The script language support is not too hard, once there will be a
complete interface for this in LyX, adding a script language will depend
only on how hard it is to link it into LyX, with smart definitions, most
of the binding definitions can be done automatically. 

This message gets too long and I have a Real Analysis test to learn for. 

* George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010527 09:07]:
> On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:
> 
> 
> > The need is for an "Official language" not necessarily a single one, but
> > one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
> > will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
> > possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
> > currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
> 
> And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
> more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
> system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
> "official" anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
> mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are "official" as being an 
> endorsement for, or a bias towards the "official" item.
> 
> > The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
> > language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
> > need the official language. There is a need however to make the
> 
> Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
> will get:
> 
>   Why is that?  I don't have the "official" language on my system, and you are 
>   telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
>   system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
>   an application?  Forget it.
> 
> Another reaction:
> 
>   That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
> 
>   Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.
> 
> > scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
> > most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.
> 
> Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the "user/administrator*.  
> Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
> comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
> the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.
> 
> Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
> one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
> as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
> more languages to avoid any perception of bias.
> 
> This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 
> 
> Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in
> 
> -- 
> George J. De Bruin
> Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
> 0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:

 To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
 discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
 scripting language is from your perspective?

 Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
 Lisp, Scheme and Python.

Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
need to integrate new code with.)

However, if we have to chose just one, my vote would go to Python.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

* George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010526 19:05]:
 On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
 
  To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
  discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
  scripting language is from your perspective?
 
  Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
  Lisp, Scheme and Python.
 
 Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
 languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
 preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
 need to integrate new code with.)

The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
need the official language. There is a need however to make the
scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Thursday 24 May 2001 07:01, Joao B. Oliveira wrote:

 Before choosing a language that will affect our (happy) LyX lives,
 what requirements are really being made on this language? I

The requirements are going to vary on a user by user basis.  For example, I 
see the examples you listed as being important (although, macro expansion is 
not quite as much a requirement for me as the others).

For me personally, the first thing that I can think of right off is the 
ability to manipulate the buffer that contains a document.  And, I would like 
to be able to manipulate it both as displayed (ie, not reading the internal 
code / structure of the document), and as stored internally (ie, with the 
document structure).  The reason for this is some scripts I would like to 
have look at the displayed text (for items like a word count script, or other 
text manipulation like swapping characters, words, lines...)

The reason for looking at the internal structure would be for things like 
looking at the cvs fields which are stored as comments, or possibly hiding my 
own information in comments that I can manipulate from a script.

So, basically, the way I see it is that we should really look more at what 
needs to be exported and provide that.  Each language should have a way to 
import the commands and structures that we export.

There is another reason that I don't want to limit the language choice: 
integration with pre-existing code bases.  For example, I may already have a 
set of scripts in perl or python that use php and mysql to dynamically 
generate web content.  If want to use LyX to author some of the information 
that I am going to put into my online database, I would like to write an 
interface script that reuses my existing perl or python code as much as 
possible. (Perl and python are only examples here, you can plug in language 
'x' for them.)

 Other question: what about enlarging (if necessary) the language
 already used in the minibuffer? It would be nice to have the same
 language being used twice.

Well, personally, I haven't found the language in the mini-buffer to be all 
that useful at this point.  I haven't found a case where I could really use 
it. However, I think what we are looking at is exporting those commands and 
functions to whatever language, as well as structures so you can 
examine/query LyX's current state, etc.

I guess the major point is to allow both: tailoring and customizing of the 
interactive editing environment, as well as providing an interface to the 
rest of the world.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:11:51PM +0300, Baruch Even wrote:
 * George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010526 19:05]:
  On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
  
   To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
   discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
   scripting language is from your perspective?
  
   Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
   Lisp, Scheme and Python.
  
  Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
  languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
  preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
  need to integrate new code with.)
 
 The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
 one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
 will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
 possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
 currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
 
 The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
 language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
 need the official language. There is a need however to make the
 scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
 most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.

So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
of Icon.

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Thanks to the diligence of the FBI,
this particular vaccuum cleaner will not fall into the wrong hands.
-- Howard Hughes(Rocketeer)
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/  \|   http://www.katspace.com
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include standard/disclaimer.h
| Melbourne - Victoria - Australia - Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   - Earth - Sol - Milky Way Galaxy - Universe

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:


 The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
 one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
 will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
 possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
 currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
official anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are official as being an 
endorsement for, or a bias towards the official item.

 The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
 language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
 need the official language. There is a need however to make the

Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
will get:

Why is that?  I don't have the official language on my system, and you are 
telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
an application?  Forget it.

Another reaction:

That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
 
Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.

 scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
 most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the user/administrator*.  
Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.

Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:

 To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
 discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
 scripting language is from your perspective?

 Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
 Lisp, Scheme and Python.

Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
need to integrate new code with.)

However, if we have to chose just one, my vote would go to Python.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

* George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010526 19:05]:
 On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
 
  To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
  discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
  scripting language is from your perspective?
 
  Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
  Lisp, Scheme and Python.
 
 Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
 languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
 preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
 need to integrate new code with.)

The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
need the official language. There is a need however to make the
scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Thursday 24 May 2001 07:01, Joao B. Oliveira wrote:

 Before choosing a language that will affect our (happy) LyX lives,
 what requirements are really being made on this language? I

The requirements are going to vary on a user by user basis.  For example, I 
see the examples you listed as being important (although, macro expansion is 
not quite as much a requirement for me as the others).

For me personally, the first thing that I can think of right off is the 
ability to manipulate the buffer that contains a document.  And, I would like 
to be able to manipulate it both as displayed (ie, not reading the internal 
code / structure of the document), and as stored internally (ie, with the 
document structure).  The reason for this is some scripts I would like to 
have look at the displayed text (for items like a word count script, or other 
text manipulation like swapping characters, words, lines...)

The reason for looking at the internal structure would be for things like 
looking at the cvs fields which are stored as comments, or possibly hiding my 
own information in comments that I can manipulate from a script.

So, basically, the way I see it is that we should really look more at what 
needs to be exported and provide that.  Each language should have a way to 
import the commands and structures that we export.

There is another reason that I don't want to limit the language choice: 
integration with pre-existing code bases.  For example, I may already have a 
set of scripts in perl or python that use php and mysql to dynamically 
generate web content.  If want to use LyX to author some of the information 
that I am going to put into my online database, I would like to write an 
interface script that reuses my existing perl or python code as much as 
possible. (Perl and python are only examples here, you can plug in language 
'x' for them.)

 Other question: what about enlarging (if necessary) the language
 already used in the minibuffer? It would be nice to have the same
 language being used twice.

Well, personally, I haven't found the language in the mini-buffer to be all 
that useful at this point.  I haven't found a case where I could really use 
it. However, I think what we are looking at is exporting those commands and 
functions to whatever language, as well as structures so you can 
examine/query LyX's current state, etc.

I guess the major point is to allow both: tailoring and customizing of the 
interactive editing environment, as well as providing an interface to the 
rest of the world.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:11:51PM +0300, Baruch Even wrote:
 * George De Bruin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010526 19:05]:
  On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
  
   To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
   discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
   scripting language is from your perspective?
  
   Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
   Lisp, Scheme and Python.
  
  Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
  languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
  preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
  need to integrate new code with.)
 
 The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
 one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
 will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
 possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
 currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
 
 The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
 language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
 need the official language. There is a need however to make the
 scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
 most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.

So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
of Icon.

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Thanks to the diligence of the FBI,
this particular vaccuum cleaner will not fall into the wrong hands.
-- Howard Hughes(Rocketeer)
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/  \|   http://www.katspace.com
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include standard/disclaimer.h
| Melbourne - Victoria - Australia - Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   - Earth - Sol - Milky Way Galaxy - Universe

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:


 The need is for an Official language not necessarily a single one, but
 one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
 will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
 possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
 currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
official anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are official as being an 
endorsement for, or a bias towards the official item.

 The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
 language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
 need the official language. There is a need however to make the

Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
will get:

Why is that?  I don't have the official language on my system, and you are 
telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
an application?  Forget it.

Another reaction:

That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
 
Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.

 scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
 most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the user/administrator*.  
Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.

Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording Collection is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:

> To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
> discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
> scripting language is from your perspective?
>
> Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
> Lisp, Scheme and Python.

Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
need to integrate new code with.)

However, if we have to chose just one, my vote would go to Python.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Re: sorting tables?

[Baruch Even]

* George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010526 19:05]:
> On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
> 
> > To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
> > discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
> > scripting language is from your perspective?
> >
> > Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
> > Lisp, Scheme and Python.
> 
> Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
> languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
> preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
> need to integrate new code with.)

The need is for an "Official language" not necessarily a single one, but
one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
need the official language. There is a need however to make the
scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

-- 
Baruch Even
http://baruch.ev-en.org/

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Thursday 24 May 2001 07:01, Joao B. Oliveira wrote:

> Before choosing a language that will affect our (happy) LyX lives,
> what requirements are really being made on this language? I

The requirements are going to vary on a user by user basis.  For example, I 
see the examples you listed as being important (although, macro expansion is 
not quite as much a requirement for me as the others).

For me personally, the first thing that I can think of right off is the 
ability to manipulate the buffer that contains a document.  And, I would like 
to be able to manipulate it both as displayed (ie, not reading the internal 
code / structure of the document), and as stored internally (ie, with the 
document structure).  The reason for this is some scripts I would like to 
have look at the displayed text (for items like a word count script, or other 
text manipulation like swapping characters, words, lines...)

The reason for looking at the internal structure would be for things like 
looking at the cvs fields which are stored as comments, or possibly hiding my 
own information in comments that I can manipulate from a script.

So, basically, the way I see it is that we should really look more at what 
needs to be exported and provide that.  Each language should have a way to 
import the commands and structures that we export.

There is another reason that I don't want to limit the language choice: 
integration with pre-existing code bases.  For example, I may already have a 
set of scripts in perl or python that use php and mysql to dynamically 
generate web content.  If want to use LyX to author some of the information 
that I am going to put into my online database, I would like to write an 
interface script that reuses my existing perl or python code as much as 
possible. (Perl and python are only examples here, you can plug in language 
'x' for them.)

> Other question: what about enlarging (if necessary) the language
> already used in the minibuffer? It would be nice to have the same
> language being used twice.

Well, personally, I haven't found the language in the mini-buffer to be all 
that useful at this point.  I haven't found a case where I could really use 
it. However, I think what we are looking at is exporting those commands and 
functions to whatever language, as well as structures so you can 
examine/query LyX's current state, etc.

I guess the major point is to allow both: tailoring and customizing of the 
interactive editing environment, as well as providing an interface to the 
rest of the world.

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

Languages (was Re: sorting tables?)

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:11:51PM +0300, Baruch Even wrote:
> * George De Bruin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010526 19:05]:
> > On Wednesday 23 May 2001 11:17, Baruch Even wrote:
> > 
> > > To follow up on these comments and enthusiasm (and a developers
> > > discussion), what is the language of choice for such an embedded
> > > scripting language is from your perspective?
> > >
> > > Several options that were raised (and I rememeber) include Icon,
> > > Lisp, Scheme and Python.
> > 
> > Personally, I liked the concept of implementing this to support multiple 
> > languages so you could chose your own.  (Not only do people have personal 
> > preferences, but they may also have existing code bases that they want or 
> > need to integrate new code with.)
> 
> The need is for an "Official language" not necessarily a single one, but
> one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
> will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
> possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
> currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.
> 
> The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
> language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
> need the official language. There is a need however to make the
> scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
> most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

That's why I'm glad that GIMP now has two scripting languages.  Scheme
was the official one, but they added the perl module after that.  I
admit I haven't yet learnt how to script for GIMP, but it's far more
likely now, because I don't have to learn a whole new language as well
as learning the GIMP-specific things needed to script GIMP.

So as for languages that people are likely to know, you've got Lisp (for
all those emacs-Lisp folks), and Perl, and the next New Thing, Python.
I don't know about the knowledge-base for Scheme... and I've never heard
of Icon.

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Thanks to the diligence of the FBI,
this particular vaccuum cleaner will not fall into the wrong hands."
-- Howard Hughes(Rocketeer)
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
/  \|   
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: sorting tables?

[George De Bruin]

On Saturday 26 May 2001 11:11, Baruch Even wrote:


> The need is for an "Official language" not necessarily a single one, but
> one that is expected to be available in most installations, possibly it
> will be available out of the box from packages. This is to make it
> possible to have a library of scripts, and to allow removing things
> currently implemented in LyX into the official scripting language.

And there couldn't be a standard 'library' of scripts in two or three (or 
more) languages?  Then you would just download the one that you want on your 
system.  I guess I just look at this and think anytime you select one 
"official" anything you open up the potential for mis-understanding or 
mis-interpretation.  Most people see things that are "official" as being an 
endorsement for, or a bias towards the "official" item.

> The implementation as I expect it to be, will not force you to use one
> language over the other, only if you want the official scripts you'll
> need the official language. There is a need however to make the

Okay, for arguments sake (from personal experience) here's the reaction this 
will get:

Why is that?  I don't have the "official" language on my system, and you are 
telling me that I have to install that language?  Mess around with my stable 
system configuration to add scripting support and get full functionality for 
an application?  Forget it.

Another reaction:

That language isn't supported at my site.  Guess I can't use it at all.
 
Guess I don't get the full functionality of LyX.

> scripting language easy enough for as many as users as possible so that
> most of the users will not need to have multiple languages in LyX.

Agreed, it needs to be as easy as possible for the "user/administrator*.  
Therefore, we should support the languages the users and administrators are 
comfortable with.  The user/administrator can then download the scripts in 
the language they are comfortable with / want to administer.

Now, I see from a development point where it will be necessary to focus on 
one or two languages for the initial implementation / testing.  But, as soon 
as that is done I think the support should be expanded to at least six or 
more languages to avoid any perception of bias.

This is the same as the concept of GUI independence. 

Just my opinion...with a little experience thrown in

-- 
George J. De Bruin
Check Out 0l0rin's New Age compositions at http://mp3.com/0l0rin
0l0rin's latest recording "Collection" is available now!

csv2lyx (was Re: sorting tables?)

[A.Gulino]

Joao B. Oliveira wrote:
 Antonio wrote:
Joao B. Oliveira wrote:
 See? Does not look that bad, but an even better solution would be
 *other* feature: import .cvs files directly as tables. 
I have a little perlscript that produce a floattable (or a simple table) in
lyx-format from a tab-separated-value file. (or comma separteded or !
separated, how you like) (for 4fix1 and 6fix1)
 I really think that such a script for converting tables would be really
 useful! Why don't you publish it on our list? It is always a nice tool
 to have (and if we don't have it, it is nice to know where to find it!)

Hi folks,
I send you my very little perlscript. If you think it is long, its not true.
there are a only 30 codelines, the rest is documentation.

Documentation? 
Yes. pod (perl|poor|pretty old documentation).
on Linux do this: name@host ~/ pod2html csv2lyx  csv2lyx.html

how use it? look the documentation! 
ok, ok. a little help (from the documentation :-)
Sorry for my english (if you want I can translate it to italian, german or
french)

ciao, antonio
(my home e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])

csv2lyx  - converter from csv-file to a LyX table 
===
HOW USE IT (under Linux):
=
 antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx

Then in LyX: Insert-LyXfile mytmptable.lyx

If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word
Senseless will are delete.

If you want a float table, then mark the title _and_ the table and then insert a
floattable

 Insert-LyX File mytmptable.lyx
 [mark the title and the table]
 Insert-Float-Float table

the word Senseless will change to Table

Options
===

 --separator=what you want (default: \t for a tab-sep-value file)
 --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)

==
==

#! /usr/bin/perl
# csv2lyx
# Copyright (C) 2001 Antonio Gulino
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under
# the term of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software
# Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or any later version.

=pod
=head1 NAME

csv2lyx - converter from csv-file to a LyX table

Converts a Comma Separated Value file to a float table in LyX format.
Good for LyX version 1.1.4fix1 and other.

=head1 HOW USE IT

under Linux:

 antonio@bidone:~ cat mycsvfile | csv2lyx  mytmptable.lyx

Then in LyX: Insert-LyXfile mytmptable.lyx

If you don't want a float table, then can you delete the default-title, the word 
Senseless
will are delete.

If you want a float table, then mark the title and the table and then insert a 
floattable

 Insert-LyX File mytmptable.lyx
 [mark the title and the table]
 Insert-Float-Float table

=head2 Options

 --separator=what you want (default: \t for a tab-sep-value file)
 --title=A pretty title for a pretty table (default:Title of the LyX table)


=head1 AUTHOR and COPYLEFT

Copyright (C) 2001, Antonio Gulino [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under
the term of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software
Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or any later version.

=cut

# l'input non e' il nome di un file, ma il file stesso
# l'output avviene sullo schermo
# dunque l'utilizzo e' cosi:
# antonio@bidone  cat filecsv.csv | csv2lyx | filedioutput

# di default il separatore e' un tabulatore

use Getopt::Long;
$OPT_separator = \t;
$OPT_title = 'Title of the LyX table';
GetOptions( separator=s = \$OPT_separator,
 title=s = \$OPT_title,);

@csv = ;
chomp(@csv);
# vediamo quante righe ci sono
# how many row (=righe) are there?
$righe = $#csv + 1;

# adesso leggo l'intero array e creo una matrice: @matrix
# contemporaneamente calcolo il numero massimo di campi, per sapere quante colonne mi 
servono
# now i read the whole array and put it into a matrix : @matrix
# at the same time i look how many column (=colonne) have the biggest row
$col = 0;
foreach my $r (@csv) {
my @r = split $OPT_separator, $r;
$colonne = $#r + 1 if $colonne = $#r;
push @matrix, [@r];
}

# adesso stampo il codice lyx. l'allineamento avviene a destra (immagino che di solito 
siano cifre)
# produco automaticamente una float table,
# versione funzionante per la 1.1.4fix1
# now I print the LyX format. Align=right (I think this is a matrix of numbers)
# dafault: a float table

print LYX;
\\begin_float tab
\\layout Caption

$OPT_title
\\layout Standard
\\align center \\LyXTable
multicol5
$righe $colonne 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
LYX
;

# qui viene deciso se ci sono righe in alto o in basso di ciascuna riga
# se la prima cifra e' 1 allora c'e una linea in alto
# se la seconda cifra e' 1 allora c'e una linea in basso
# here I say if there are a border
# if the first number is 1, then a border on the top of the