Re: [M100] - Backpack

[Gary Weber]

John,

You have described the issues and the resulting frustration quite
accurately, and in the most entertaining method I've witnessed to date.
Bravo!

Gary

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 4:45 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 3:29 PM  wrote:
>
>> Regarding Jeff’s comment:  “TSDOS does its own thing, like John says, and
>> really makes a mess of it.”:
>>
>>
>>
>> Could it be that TSDOS got away with it due to inherent delays in reading
>> data from a disk?   Reading from an SD card should be much faster and not
>> have those delays.Just speculating…
>>
>>
>>
>
> No.. TS-DOS never got away with it, really.
>
> The dysfunction created is insidious. The immediate thing the user may see
> is that the file inloaded is corrupted. Oh well, you mess around and try
> again. Maybe you fix the extension. Maybe you don't. The dinner bell
> interrupts you.
>
> You pick it up later. But little do you realize the stage is set for
> crash/hang/data loss. At this point the RAM in general is corrupted with
> weird effects and eventually you will have to "cold start" to fully recover.
>
> The disconnect will result in making up theories of what happened.
> Sunspots. Some new CO you used the other day. Maybe an errant poke in Joe's
> program that you were testing for him. Maybe you blame Microsoft.
>
> So I suspect TS-DOS + Desklink avoided blame because users don't always
> know when or why exactly things go wrong.
>
> Or, it got away with it because fundamentally, all said and done, it's
> truly the user's fault for not following the official naming conventions
> (which they may or may not understand. Tokenization? Plain text? BASIC
> ASCII? Tokenized BASIC? Inload? etc).
>
> Tap the machine 3 times, proclaim "no whammies!," sacrifice a chicken and
> move on.
>
> -- John.
>

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[MikeS]

What and where is SWITCH.DSK?

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian K. White" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2023 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic


> Ah, and SWITCH.DSK must be what I thought I remembered seeing before 
> about switching between dvi and other.
> 
> 
> On 3/2/23 10:29, Brian K. White wrote:
>> See L-DVI.100
>> 
>> On 3/2/23 10:18, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Just tried out BOOT.BA  and it works pretty well. Only 
>>> thing I don't love about it, is that you need to re-enter the 
>>> Time/Date after removing Disk-BASIC.
>>>
>>> I think I'm going to modify it to store the current date/time in 
>>> ALTLCD before clearing the ram, as I think that location ought to be 
>>> protected.
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:48 AM Brian K. White >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I never noticed that, but I just tried it and you're right, the dvi
>>> needs the system disk on every power-on, not just for installation.
>>>
>>> -- bkw
>>>
>>> On 3/2/23 09:20, grima...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>> > I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited,
>>> since
>>> > when the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the
>>> system
>>> > disk, the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the
>>> M100. So
>>> > even if you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be
>>> useless
>>> > without the system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI
>>> software
>>> > into the DVI from the System Bus connector of the M100.)
>>> >
>>> > That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI
>>> without the
>>> > original disk.
>>> >
>>> > -George
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White
>>> mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>
>>> > >> 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com
>>>  >> > wrote:
>>> > > Hi Brian,
>>> > >
>>> > > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem 
>>> to be
>>> > exactly
>>> > > what I need.
>>> >
>>> > Looks like also D100.BA  >> > and DISABL.DVI
>>> >
>>> > I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I
>>> don't see
>>> > anything like that now.
>>> >
>>> > There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the 
>>> m100sig
>>> > besides these too.
>>> >
>>> > I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software
>>> but pack
>>> > it away for restoring later, and did the same for other
>>> dosses like for
>>> > chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.
>>> >
>>> > Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the 
>>> search
>>> > box on
>>> > github:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo 
>>>  
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> > Whoa Nelly!
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > bkw
>>> >
>>>
>>> -- bkw
>>>
>> 
> 
> -- 
> bkw

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[MikeS]

I wondered how you discriminated; clever!
  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2023 1:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] - Backpack


  "you would only have tokenized files on the M100 itself"


  Or cassette files, tpdd files, xmodem'd BA files tsdos sending to desklink, 
etc. ;-)


  But I think I know what you mean. It is mostly a closed system until you 
start transferring to a foreign host. Then you can stub your toe on this 
problem.


  One question is, could it have been solved on the tsdos side? I guess not.  
IIRC the distinguishing characteristics are at the end of a proper tokenized 
file versus text file since there are nuls (or not). 


  If you're going to detect it and take steps it has to happen on the host. 


  Which is where I addressed it in LaddieAlpha. 


  Even there, there are multiple ways to do it. I fix the presented extension. 
Another way would be to hide the bad file or give an error on open or read. 


  -- John. 

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 3:29 PM  wrote:

> Regarding Jeff’s comment:  “TSDOS does its own thing, like John says, and
> really makes a mess of it.”:
>
>
>
> Could it be that TSDOS got away with it due to inherent delays in reading
> data from a disk?   Reading from an SD card should be much faster and not
> have those delays.Just speculating…
>
>
>

No.. TS-DOS never got away with it, really.

The dysfunction created is insidious. The immediate thing the user may see
is that the file inloaded is corrupted. Oh well, you mess around and try
again. Maybe you fix the extension. Maybe you don't. The dinner bell
interrupts you.

You pick it up later. But little do you realize the stage is set for
crash/hang/data loss. At this point the RAM in general is corrupted with
weird effects and eventually you will have to "cold start" to fully recover.

The disconnect will result in making up theories of what happened.
Sunspots. Some new CO you used the other day. Maybe an errant poke in Joe's
program that you were testing for him. Maybe you blame Microsoft.

So I suspect TS-DOS + Desklink avoided blame because users don't always
know when or why exactly things go wrong.

Or, it got away with it because fundamentally, all said and done, it's
truly the user's fault for not following the official naming conventions
(which they may or may not understand. Tokenization? Plain text? BASIC
ASCII? Tokenized BASIC? Inload? etc).

Tap the machine 3 times, proclaim "no whammies!," sacrifice a chicken and
move on.

-- John.

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[lloydelmer]

Regarding Jeff’s comment:  “TSDOS does its own thing, like John says, and 
really makes a mess of it.”:

 

Could it be that TSDOS got away with it due to inherent delays in reading data 
from a disk?   Reading from an SD card should be much faster and not have those 
delays.Just speculating…

 

Lloyd

 

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of Peter Vollan
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 2:13 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] - Backpack

 

See, I take the unpopular opinion that that should not be done because it 
teaches bad habits.

 

On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 06:20, mailto:bir...@soigeneris.com> > wrote:

I also tried loading a .DO named as .BA through BASIC, i.e. load "com:98n1e" 
and that worked fine. Seems to me that if it were a man ROM issue the same 
problem would happen this way. Also, the TS-DOS disassembly shows that it 
changes it’s behavior based on filetype extension.

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100 mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> > On Behalf Of Brian White
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 6:51 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com  
Subject: Re: [M100] - Backpack

 

I don't think it's ts-dos, it's the main rom. The main rom and all the tpdd 
clients basically have to trust the file name. If it's declared as a .ba, then 
the bytes are copied verbatim and then later interpreted according to the rules 
of parsing a .ba. If the contents are not .ba, kablooey.

bkw

 

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 8:11 PM mailto:bir...@soigeneris.com> > wrote:

I did some more testing and discovered that John is absolutely correct. 
Previously when I had tried to load a .BA which was really a .DO it made it 
about 3-4 line in and then stopped. This led me to believe it was an issue I 
have seen on other computer; when loading an ASCII file over serial the 
computer will tokenize the line when the CR is encountered. Just like it had 
been typed in on the keyboard. For these systems you have to add a 2 second or 
so delay after each line to allow for tokenization.

TSDOS does its own thing, like John says, and really makes a mess of it. 

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100 mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> > On Behalf Of John R. Hogerhuis
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2023 7:40 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com  
Subject: Re: [M100] - Backpack

 

A side note but the reason files misnamed as BA cause a problem is that tsdos 
will load them into the BASIC program region verbatim and  treat the ASCII 
bytes as parts of binary formatted line numbers and tokens among other 
problems, ultimately causing a corrupted RAM file system. 

 

It was the convention on the old Club100 library  to name them this way but 
it's now a bad practice. 

 

-- John. 

 

 

 

On Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 5:30 PM mailto:bir...@soigeneris.com> > wrote:

Yes, someone already wrote such a program and shared it. If you just got a 
Backpack Drive Plus it is already on the SD card. You can also download it 
from: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/Backpack/tree/main/User_Programs 

 

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[MikeS]

Well, I count a cassette or TPDD (or the DVI for that matter) as part of the 
stock 'closed' M100 system, with  TELCOM only able to transfer plaintext files 
in and out; xmodem and DLplus changed that and that's where the trouble started.

Back in the day it was never an issue; everything was ASCII text except for the 
.BA programs running or stored in the M100 system.

When I dug out my M100 many years later, lo and behold there were now lots of 
binary .CO and .BA files out there, but how to load them into the M100? Xmodem 
was one obvious answer, but how to load it in the first place? 

So, many thanks to Ron Wiesen (R.I.P.) and Traveling Software for the 
self-installing TEENY and DeskLink combo; that opened the door to lots of other 
stuff including TS-DOS etc.

A quite different environment these days thanks to all the innovative folks 
who've contributed over the last 40 years...

m


  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2023 1:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] - Backpack


  "you would only have tokenized files on the M100 itself"


  Or cassette files, tpdd files, xmodem'd BA files tsdos sending to desklink, 
etc. ;-)


  But I think I know what you mean. It is mostly a closed system until you 
start transferring to a foreign host. Then you can stub your toe on this 
problem.


  One question is, could it have been solved on the tsdos side? I guess not.  
IIRC the distinguishing characteristics are at the end of a proper tokenized 
file versus text file since there are nuls (or not). 


  If you're going to detect it and take steps it has to happen on the host. 


  Which is where I addressed it in LaddieAlpha. 


  Even there, there are multiple ways to do it. I fix the presented extension. 
Another way would be to hide the bad file or give an error on open or read. 


  -- John. 

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[MikeS]

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian K. White" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2023 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic


> I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I don't see 
> anything like that now.
> 
 
You may be thinking of that notice you posted; it was an insert supplied with 
the DVI.

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[John R. Hogerhuis]

"you would only have tokenized files on the M100 itself"

Or cassette files, tpdd files, xmodem'd BA files tsdos sending to desklink,
etc. ;-)

But I think I know what you mean. It is mostly a closed system until you
start transferring to a foreign host. Then you can stub your toe on this
problem.

One question is, could it have been solved on the tsdos side? I guess not.
IIRC the distinguishing characteristics are at the end of a proper
tokenized file versus text file since there are nuls (or not).

If you're going to detect it and take steps it has to happen on the host.

Which is where I addressed it in LaddieAlpha.

Even there, there are multiple ways to do it. I fix the presented
extension. Another way would be to hide the bad file or give an error on
open or read.

-- John.

Re: [M100] Interfacing Model 100 with the Real World

[Daniel L]

Me too, he loaded the rom for it on his new dial-a-rom on that last 
video, now i want to see it in action. Looks dope.


I'm wondering how easy it would be to create a similar thing with 
arduino - assuming OWL isn't.


On 2/28/23 13:07, Joseph Colson III wrote:


I know a little bit about the OWL but I’m not able to locate anything 
documenting the interface board. I know Jeff has one as well and has 
it on his to do list to create some videos about it.   Which by the 
way I’m really looking forward to watching!   But in the mean time I 
was hoping to locate some books and such documenting how to interface 
with it.


*From:* M100  *On Behalf Of *Peter 
Vollan

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2023 2:30 PM
*To:* m...@bitchin100.com
*Subject:* Re: [M100] Interfacing Model 100 with the Real World

There are model 100s that were used solely for that purpose. I think 
it was called an OWL, Outdoor Weather Logger. So that's a good place 
to start at least.


On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 18:08, Joseph Colson III 
 wrote:


I’m very interested in interfacing the Model 100 or Model 102 with
sensors, such as temp, wind and other that would be helpful.   Are
there any books that I can read that are somewhat specific to the
Model T’s that would help in the endeavor?

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[Brian K. White]

Ah, and SWITCH.DSK must be what I thought I remembered seeing before 
about switching between dvi and other.



On 3/2/23 10:29, Brian K. White wrote:

See L-DVI.100

On 3/2/23 10:18, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
Just tried out BOOT.BA  and it works pretty well. Only 
thing I don't love about it, is that you need to re-enter the 
Time/Date after removing Disk-BASIC.


I think I'm going to modify it to store the current date/time in 
ALTLCD before clearing the ram, as I think that location ought to be 
protected.


-George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:48 AM Brian K. White > wrote:


    I never noticed that, but I just tried it and you're right, the dvi
    needs the system disk on every power-on, not just for installation.

    --     bkw

    On 3/2/23 09:20, grima...@gmail.com  
wrote:

 > I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited,
    since
 > when the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the
    system
 > disk, the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the
    M100. So
 > even if you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be
    useless
 > without the system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI
    software
 > into the DVI from the System Bus connector of the M100.)
 >
 > That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI
    without the
 > original disk.
 >
 > -George
 >
 > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White
    mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>
 > >> 
wrote:

 >
 >     On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com
     > wrote:
 >      > Hi Brian,
 >      >
 >      > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem 
to be

 >     exactly
 >      > what I need.
 >
 >     Looks like also D100.BA  > and DISABL.DVI
 >
 >     I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I
    don't see
 >     anything like that now.
 >
 >     There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the 
m100sig

 >     besides these too.
 >
 >     I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software
    but pack
 >     it away for restoring later, and did the same for other
    dosses like for
 >     chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.
 >
 >     Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the 
search

 >     box on
 >     github:
 >
 >

https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo 
 >

 >
 >     Whoa Nelly!
 >
 >     --
 >     bkw
 >

    --     bkw





--
bkw

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[Brian K. White]

See L-DVI.100

On 3/2/23 10:18, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
Just tried out BOOT.BA  and it works pretty well. Only 
thing I don't love about it, is that you need to re-enter the Time/Date 
after removing Disk-BASIC.


I think I'm going to modify it to store the current date/time in ALTLCD 
before clearing the ram, as I think that location ought to be protected.


-George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:48 AM Brian K. White > wrote:


I never noticed that, but I just tried it and you're right, the dvi
needs the system disk on every power-on, not just for installation.

-- 
bkw


On 3/2/23 09:20, grima...@gmail.com  wrote:
 > I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited,
since
 > when the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the
system
 > disk, the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the
M100. So
 > even if you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be
useless
 > without the system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI
software
 > into the DVI from the System Bus connector of the M100.)
 >
 > That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI
without the
 > original disk.
 >
 > -George
 >
 > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White
mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 >     On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com
 > wrote:
 >      > Hi Brian,
 >      >
 >      > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be
 >     exactly
 >      > what I need.
 >
 >     Looks like also D100.BA  > and DISABL.DVI
 >
 >     I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I
don't see
 >     anything like that now.
 >
 >     There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the m100sig
 >     besides these too.
 >
 >     I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software
but pack
 >     it away for restoring later, and did the same for other
dosses like for
 >     chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.
 >
 >     Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the search
 >     box on
 >     github:
 >
 >
https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo 
 
>
 >
 >     Whoa Nelly!
 >
 >     --
 >     bkw
 >

-- 
bkw




--
bkw

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[grima...@gmail.com]

Just tried out BOOT.BA and it works pretty well. Only thing I don't love
about it, is that you need to re-enter the Time/Date after removing
Disk-BASIC.

I think I'm going to modify it to store the current date/time in ALTLCD
before clearing the ram, as I think that location ought to be protected.

-George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:48 AM Brian K. White  wrote:

> I never noticed that, but I just tried it and you're right, the dvi
> needs the system disk on every power-on, not just for installation.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> On 3/2/23 09:20, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited, since
> > when the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the system
> > disk, the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the M100. So
> > even if you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be useless
> > without the system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI software
> > into the DVI from the System Bus connector of the M100.)
> >
> > That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI without the
> > original disk.
> >
> > -George
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> >  > Hi Brian,
> >  >
> >  > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be
> > exactly
> >  > what I need.
> >
> > Looks like also D100.BA  and DISABL.DVI
> >
> > I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I don't
> see
> > anything like that now.
> >
> > There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the m100sig
> > besides these too.
> >
> > I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software but pack
> > it away for restoring later, and did the same for other dosses like
> for
> > chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.
> >
> > Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the search
> > box on
> > github:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo <
> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo>
> >
> > Whoa Nelly!
> >
> > --
> > bkw
> >
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[Brian K. White]

I never noticed that, but I just tried it and you're right, the dvi 
needs the system disk on every power-on, not just for installation.


--
bkw

On 3/2/23 09:20, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited, since 
when the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the system 
disk, the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the M100. So 
even if you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be useless 
without the system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI software 
into the DVI from the System Bus connector of the M100.)


That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI without the 
original disk.


-George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White > wrote:


On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com  wrote:
 > Hi Brian,
 >
 > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be
exactly
 > what I need.

Looks like also D100.BA  and DISABL.DVI

I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I don't see
anything like that now.

There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the m100sig
besides these too.

I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software but pack
it away for restoring later, and did the same for other dosses like for
chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.

Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the search
box on
github:

https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo 


Whoa Nelly!

-- 
bkw




--
bkw

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[grima...@gmail.com]

I guess the need to pack the Disk BASIC away is pretty limited, since when
the DVI starts up, it loads software into it's RAM from the system disk,
the same disk which you can use to load Disk BASIC to the M100. So even if
you were to pack and reload Disk BASIC, the DVI will be useless without the
system disk. (unless there is a way to load the DVI software into the DVI
from the System Bus connector of the M100.)

That would be great if possible, you could bootstrap a DVI without the
original disk.

-George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 9:11 AM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be exactly
> > what I need.
>
> Looks like also D100.BA and DISABL.DVI
>
> I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I don't see
> anything like that now.
>
> There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the m100sig
> besides these too.
>
> I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software but pack
> it away for restoring later, and did the same for other dosses like for
> chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.
>
> Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the search box on
> github:
>
> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo
>
> Whoa Nelly!
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[Brian K. White]

On 3/2/23 07:37, grima...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Brian,

Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be exactly 
what I need.


Looks like also D100.BA and DISABL.DVI

I would have sworn I saw directions in the user manual, but I don't see 
anything like that now.


There may be yet other programs or texts elsewhere in the m100sig 
besides these too.


I thought I saw some that don't just unload the dvi software but pack 
it away for restoring later, and did the same for other dosses like for 
chipmunk or tpdd, and let you flip back & forth between them.


Here's something cool, search the entire m100sig using the search box on 
github:


https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/search?q=Disk%2FVideo

Whoa Nelly!

--
bkw

Re: [M100] - Backpack

[Mike Stein]

Not sure what you mean? What's the bad habit?

The idea of using .BA for plaintext BASIC files and .DO for text documents
made perfect sense in the old days. Keep in mind that a stock M100 can not
transfer binary files such as tokenized BASIC or .CO, so normally all files
transferred would be plain ASCII and you would only have tokenized files on
the M100 itself.

The problem being discussed only arose once various means of transferring
binary files without discriminating between binary and plaintext came along.

m

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 3:29 PM Peter Vollan  wrote:

> See, I take the unpopular opinion that that should not be done because it
> teaches bad habits.
>
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 06:20,  wrote:
>
>> I also tried loading a .DO named as .BA through BASIC, i.e. load
>> "com:98n1e" and that worked fine. Seems to me that if it were a man ROM
>> issue the same problem would happen this way. Also, the TS-DOS disassembly
>> shows that it changes it’s behavior based on filetype extension.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Birt
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* M100  *On Behalf Of *Brian
>> White
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 1, 2023 6:51 AM
>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] - Backpack
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think it's ts-dos, it's the main rom. The main rom and all the
>> tpdd clients basically have to trust the file name. If it's declared as a
>> .ba, then the bytes are copied verbatim and then later interpreted
>> according to the rules of parsing a .ba. If the contents are not .ba,
>> kablooey.
>>
>> bkw
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 8:11 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I did some more testing and discovered that John is absolutely correct.
>> Previously when I had tried to load a .BA which was really a .DO it made it
>> about 3-4 line in and then stopped. This led me to believe it was an issue
>> I have seen on other computer; when loading an ASCII file over serial the
>> computer will tokenize the line when the CR is encountered. Just like it
>> had been typed in on the keyboard. For these systems you have to add a 2
>> second or so delay after each line to allow for tokenization.
>>
>> TSDOS does its own thing, like John says, and really makes a mess of it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Birt
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* M100  *On Behalf Of *John R.
>> Hogerhuis
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 25, 2023 7:40 PM
>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] - Backpack
>>
>>
>>
>> A side note but the reason files misnamed as BA cause a problem is that
>> tsdos will load them into the BASIC program region verbatim and  treat the
>> ASCII bytes as parts of binary formatted line numbers and tokens among
>> other problems, ultimately causing a corrupted RAM file system.
>>
>>
>>
>> It was the convention on the old Club100 library  to name them this way
>> but it's now a bad practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- John.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 5:30 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, someone already wrote such a program and shared it. If you just got
>> a Backpack Drive Plus it is already on the SD card. You can also download
>> it from: https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/Backpack/tree/main/User_Programs
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[grima...@gmail.com]

Hi Brian,

Just reading the descriptions in your link and they seem to be exactly what
I need.

Thank you very much!

Best,
George

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 7:05 AM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 3/1/23 22:17, grima...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The linked document explains how to remove Disk BASIC from memory on a
> T200.
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/DVI263806Notice
> > 
> >
> > Does anyone have the procedure to remove Disk BASIC from an M100?
> >
> > -George
>
>
>
> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/blob/main/M100SIG/Lib-09-PERIFERALS/DVI.CAT
>
> See at least BOOT.BA and DVI.100
>
>
> https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/tree/main/M100SIG/Lib-09-PERIFERALS
>
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Re: [M100] - Text Sweet 2.3 Release

[Brian K. White]

On 3/2/23 07:31, Brian K. White wrote:

On 3/1/23 20:05, B 9 wrote:

, 


|egrep -io 
'(GO\s*TO|GOSUB|THEN|ELSE|RESTORE|RESUME|RETURN|RUN)(\s*,?\s*[0-9]+)+' |


As you can see, I had missed exactly the same subtlety as reseq.


And yet I see you are handling things I am not
I don't have GO TO with a space nor RESTORE nor RUN



nor return!

--
bkw

Re: [M100] - Text Sweet 2.3 Release

[Brian K. White]

On 3/1/23 20:05, B 9 wrote:

, 


|egrep -io 
'(GO\s*TO|GOSUB|THEN|ELSE|RESTORE|RESUME|RETURN|RUN)(\s*,?\s*[0-9]+)+' |


As you can see, I had missed exactly the same subtlety as reseq.


And yet I see you are handling things I am not
I don't have GO TO with a space nor RESTORE nor RUN

--
bkw

Re: [M100] Removing DVI Disk Basic

[Brian K. White]

On 3/1/23 22:17, grima...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

The linked document explains how to remove Disk BASIC from memory on a T200.

https://archive.org/details/DVI263806Notice 



Does anyone have the procedure to remove Disk BASIC from an M100?

-George



https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/blob/main/M100SIG/Lib-09-PERIFERALS/DVI.CAT

See at least BOOT.BA and DVI.100

https://github.com/LivingM100SIG/Living_M100SIG/tree/main/M100SIG/Lib-09-PERIFERALS


--
bkw