Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
Good to know! Jan From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Gregory McGill Sent: maandag 28 januari 2019 18:10 To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine I have ram for the 102 at arcadeshopper.com<http://arcadeshopper.com> Greg On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 8:15 AM VANDEN BOSSCHE JAN mailto:jan.vandenboss...@vivaqua.be>> wrote: > All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of more > RAM. That's the bottom line, and that's all I need to know. Now, where can I buy another 8 K RAM chip that fits a Model 102? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 """"" @ work( @ @ ) --.ooo--(_)--ooo.--- From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph Sent: zondag 27 januari 2019 16:55 To: m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com> Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine Classic REX does not have any RAM on it, and it is plug and play meaning there is no hardware /WR signal which is needed for RAM to work. So, yes, a REX enabled machine with limited RAM is still a machine with limited RAM. No shortcoming of REX there. In fact adding REX to any machine brings all the same benefits. Adding RAM to the full extent provides those benefits. They are independent. That was partly my motivation for QUAD, but that is a separate story. All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of more RAM. There is a soon to be released all RAM REX - called REXCPM. The purpose here is to obviously run CPM on M100/T102, but it has a side benefit of doing a full RAM upgrade. (another reason to not stress so much about QUAD). REXCPM has 2MB of SRAM. It is based on bank switching like REX, but it also replaces the internal SRAM. So, you can map any 32k block of SRAM into the optrom space, and you can switch any 16k block into each of the two upper ram 16k blocks. This arrangement can be used to implement all the functions of REX but it also delivers the key thing needed for CP/M, that being the ability to use RAM blocks as a RAM DISK. In M100, REXCPM is plug and play, using the system bus connector and the Optrom socket. In T102, REXCPM needs a small hardware change, and uses the 4th memory chip socket and the Optrom socket. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jan Vanden Bossche mailto:jan80...@yahoo.com>> wrote: Yes, I think so. But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the live RAM of the machine. But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 VIVAQUA et HYDROBRU ont fusionné. VIVAQUA est votre société d'eau en Région de Bruxelles-Capitale. VIVAQUA en HYDROBRU zijn gefusioneerd. VIVAQUA is uw waterbedrijf in het Brusselse Hoofdstedelijk Gewest. [http://www.vivaqua.be/facebook.png] Rejoignez-nous sur Facebook - Volg ons op Facebook DISCLAIMER Pensez à l'environnement, n'imprimez cette page et ses annexes que si c'est nécessaire. Ce message électronique, y compris ses annexes, est confidentiel et réservé à l’attention de son destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d’en informer l’expéditeur. Toute divulgation, copie ou utilisation de ce mail est dans ce cas interdite. La sécurité et l'exactitude des transmissions de messages électroniques ne peuvent être garanties. Denk aan het milieu; druk deze pagina en de bijlagen alleen af als het nodig is. Dit e-mailbericht (inclusief zijn bijlagen) is vertrouwelijk en is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als dit bericht niet voor u bestemd is, wordt u verzocht het te wissen en de afzender te informeren. Het is in dat geval niet toegestaan dit bericht te verspreiden, te kopiëren of te gebruiken. We kunnen niet garanderen dat de gegevensoverdracht via het internet veilig en nauwkeurig is.
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
I have ram for the 102 at arcadeshopper.com Greg On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 8:15 AM VANDEN BOSSCHE JAN < jan.vandenboss...@vivaqua.be> wrote: > > All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of > more RAM. > > > > That's the bottom line, and that's all I need to know. > > > > Now, where can I buy another 8 K RAM chip that fits a Model 102? > > > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > > Jan-80 """"" > > @ work( @ @ ) > > --.ooo--(_)--ooo.--- > > > > > > *From:* M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen > Adolph > *Sent:* zondag 27 januari 2019 16:55 > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Subject:* Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > > > > Classic REX does not have any RAM on it, and it is plug and play meaning > there is no hardware /WR signal which is needed for RAM to work. > > > > So, yes, a REX enabled machine with limited RAM is still a machine with > limited RAM. No shortcoming of REX there. > > In fact adding REX to any machine brings all the same benefits. Adding > RAM to the full extent provides those benefits. They are independent. > > > > That was partly my motivation for QUAD, but that is a separate story. > > > > All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of > more RAM. > > > > There is a soon to be released all RAM REX - called REXCPM. > > The purpose here is to obviously run CPM on M100/T102, but it has a side > benefit of doing a full RAM upgrade. > > (another reason to not stress so much about QUAD). > > > > REXCPM has 2MB of SRAM. It is based on bank switching like REX, but it > also replaces the internal SRAM. So, you can map any 32k block of SRAM > into the optrom space, and you can switch any 16k block into each of the > two upper ram 16k blocks. > > This arrangement can be used to implement all the functions of REX but it > also delivers the key thing needed for CP/M, that being the ability to use > RAM blocks as a RAM DISK. > > > > In M100, REXCPM is plug and play, using the system bus connector and the > Optrom socket. > > In T102, REXCPM needs a small hardware change, and uses the 4th memory > chip socket and the Optrom socket. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jan Vanden Bossche > wrote: > > Yes, I think so. > > > > But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the > RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If > I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the > live RAM of the machine. > > > > But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of > REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. > > > > Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ > > > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 > > > > VIVAQUA et HYDROBRU ont fusionné. > VIVAQUA est votre société d'eau en Région de Bruxelles-Capitale. > > VIVAQUA en HYDROBRU zijn gefusioneerd. > VIVAQUA is uw waterbedrijf in het Brusselse Hoofdstedelijk Gewest. > > Rejoignez-nous sur Facebook - Volg ons op Facebook > > DISCLAIMER > > Pensez à l’environnement, n’imprimez cette page et ses annexes que si > c’est nécessaire. Ce message électronique, y compris ses annexes, est > confidentiel et réservé à l’attention de son destinataire. Si vous n’êtes > pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d’en informer > l’expéditeur. Toute divulgation, copie ou utilisation de ce mail est dans > ce cas interdite. La sécurité et l’exactitude des transmissions de messages > électroniques ne peuvent être garanties. > > Denk aan het milieu; druk deze pagina en de bijlagen alleen af als het > nodig is. Dit e-mailbericht (inclusief zijn bijlagen) is vertrouwelijk en > is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als dit bericht niet voor u > bestemd is, wordt u verzocht het te wissen en de afzender te informeren. > Het is in dat geval niet toegestaan dit bericht te verspreiden, te kopiëren > of te gebruiken. We kunnen niet garanderen dat de gegevensoverdracht via > het internet veilig en nauwkeurig is. > >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
I just bought 5 from a Chinese eBay seller. They're all over the place. Just be prepared to wait many weeks for shipping. Mine took over a month. On Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 4:15 AM VANDEN BOSSCHE JAN < jan.vandenboss...@vivaqua.be wrote: > > All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of > more RAM. > > > > That's the bottom line, and that's all I need to know. > > > > Now, where can I buy another 8 K RAM chip that fits a Model 102? > > > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > > Jan-80 """"" > > @ work( @ @ ) > > --.ooo--(_)--ooo.--- > > > > > > *From:* M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen > Adolph > *Sent:* zondag 27 januari 2019 16:55 > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Subject:* Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > > > > Classic REX does not have any RAM on it, and it is plug and play meaning > there is no hardware /WR signal which is needed for RAM to work. > > > > So, yes, a REX enabled machine with limited RAM is still a machine with > limited RAM. No shortcoming of REX there. > > In fact adding REX to any machine brings all the same benefits. Adding > RAM to the full extent provides those benefits. They are independent. > > > > That was partly my motivation for QUAD, but that is a separate story. > > > > All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of > more RAM. > > > > There is a soon to be released all RAM REX - called REXCPM. > > The purpose here is to obviously run CPM on M100/T102, but it has a side > benefit of doing a full RAM upgrade. > > (another reason to not stress so much about QUAD). > > > > REXCPM has 2MB of SRAM. It is based on bank switching like REX, but it > also replaces the internal SRAM. So, you can map any 32k block of SRAM > into the optrom space, and you can switch any 16k block into each of the > two upper ram 16k blocks. > > This arrangement can be used to implement all the functions of REX but it > also delivers the key thing needed for CP/M, that being the ability to use > RAM blocks as a RAM DISK. > > > > In M100, REXCPM is plug and play, using the system bus connector and the > Optrom socket. > > In T102, REXCPM needs a small hardware change, and uses the 4th memory > chip socket and the Optrom socket. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jan Vanden Bossche > wrote: > > Yes, I think so. > > > > But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the > RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If > I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the > live RAM of the machine. > > > > But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of > REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. > > > > Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ > > > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 > > > > VIVAQUA et HYDROBRU ont fusionné. > VIVAQUA est votre société d'eau en Région de Bruxelles-Capitale. > > VIVAQUA en HYDROBRU zijn gefusioneerd. > VIVAQUA is uw waterbedrijf in het Brusselse Hoofdstedelijk Gewest. > > Rejoignez-nous sur Facebook - Volg ons op Facebook > > DISCLAIMER > > Pensez à l’environnement, n’imprimez cette page et ses annexes que si > c’est nécessaire. Ce message électronique, y compris ses annexes, est > confidentiel et réservé à l’attention de son destinataire. Si vous n’êtes > pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d’en informer > l’expéditeur. Toute divulgation, copie ou utilisation de ce mail est dans > ce cas interdite. La sécurité et l’exactitude des transmissions de messages > électroniques ne peuvent être garanties. > > Denk aan het milieu; druk deze pagina en de bijlagen alleen af als het > nodig is. Dit e-mailbericht (inclusief zijn bijlagen) is vertrouwelijk en > is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als dit bericht niet voor u > bestemd is, wordt u verzocht het te wissen en de afzender te informeren. > Het is in dat geval niet toegestaan dit bericht te verspreiden, te kopiëren > of te gebruiken. We kunnen niet garanderen dat de gegevensoverdracht via > het internet veilig en nauwkeurig is. > >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
> All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of more > RAM. That's the bottom line, and that's all I need to know. Now, where can I buy another 8 K RAM chip that fits a Model 102? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 """"" @ work( @ @ ) --.ooo--(_)--ooo.--- From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Adolph Sent: zondag 27 januari 2019 16:55 To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine Classic REX does not have any RAM on it, and it is plug and play meaning there is no hardware /WR signal which is needed for RAM to work. So, yes, a REX enabled machine with limited RAM is still a machine with limited RAM. No shortcoming of REX there. In fact adding REX to any machine brings all the same benefits. Adding RAM to the full extent provides those benefits. They are independent. That was partly my motivation for QUAD, but that is a separate story. All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of more RAM. There is a soon to be released all RAM REX - called REXCPM. The purpose here is to obviously run CPM on M100/T102, but it has a side benefit of doing a full RAM upgrade. (another reason to not stress so much about QUAD). REXCPM has 2MB of SRAM. It is based on bank switching like REX, but it also replaces the internal SRAM. So, you can map any 32k block of SRAM into the optrom space, and you can switch any 16k block into each of the two upper ram 16k blocks. This arrangement can be used to implement all the functions of REX but it also delivers the key thing needed for CP/M, that being the ability to use RAM blocks as a RAM DISK. In M100, REXCPM is plug and play, using the system bus connector and the Optrom socket. In T102, REXCPM needs a small hardware change, and uses the 4th memory chip socket and the Optrom socket. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jan Vanden Bossche mailto:jan80...@yahoo.com>> wrote: Yes, I think so. But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the live RAM of the machine. But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 VIVAQUA et HYDROBRU ont fusionné. VIVAQUA est votre société d'eau en Région de Bruxelles-Capitale. VIVAQUA en HYDROBRU zijn gefusioneerd. VIVAQUA is uw waterbedrijf in het Brusselse Hoofdstedelijk Gewest. [http://www.vivaqua.be/facebook.png] Rejoignez-nous sur Facebook - Volg ons op Facebook DISCLAIMER Pensez à l'environnement, n'imprimez cette page et ses annexes que si c'est nécessaire. Ce message électronique, y compris ses annexes, est confidentiel et réservé à l’attention de son destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d’en informer l’expéditeur. Toute divulgation, copie ou utilisation de ce mail est dans ce cas interdite. La sécurité et l'exactitude des transmissions de messages électroniques ne peuvent être garanties. Denk aan het milieu; druk deze pagina en de bijlagen alleen af als het nodig is. Dit e-mailbericht (inclusief zijn bijlagen) is vertrouwelijk en is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als dit bericht niet voor u bestemd is, wordt u verzocht het te wissen en de afzender te informeren. Het is in dat geval niet toegestaan dit bericht te verspreiden, te kopiëren of te gebruiken. We kunnen niet garanderen dat de gegevensoverdracht via het internet veilig en nauwkeurig is.
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
Classic REX does not have any RAM on it, and it is plug and play meaning there is no hardware /WR signal which is needed for RAM to work. So, yes, a REX enabled machine with limited RAM is still a machine with limited RAM. No shortcoming of REX there. In fact adding REX to any machine brings all the same benefits. Adding RAM to the full extent provides those benefits. They are independent. That was partly my motivation for QUAD, but that is a separate story. All it means is - you need to upgrade your RAM, to enjoy the benefits of more RAM. There is a soon to be released all RAM REX - called REXCPM. The purpose here is to obviously run CPM on M100/T102, but it has a side benefit of doing a full RAM upgrade. (another reason to not stress so much about QUAD). REXCPM has 2MB of SRAM. It is based on bank switching like REX, but it also replaces the internal SRAM. So, you can map any 32k block of SRAM into the optrom space, and you can switch any 16k block into each of the two upper ram 16k blocks. This arrangement can be used to implement all the functions of REX but it also delivers the key thing needed for CP/M, that being the ability to use RAM blocks as a RAM DISK. In M100, REXCPM is plug and play, using the system bus connector and the Optrom socket. In T102, REXCPM needs a small hardware change, and uses the 4th memory chip socket and the Optrom socket. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jan Vanden Bossche wrote: > Yes, I think so. > > But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the > RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If > I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the > live RAM of the machine. > > But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of > REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. > > Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 > >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
- Original Message - From: Brian White To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > ...I'm not sure how bad the unreliable reset to bank 1 problem really is... The normal practice for a reset circuit as used in the Quad is a diode across the resistor to quickly discharge the cap. Maybe that would improve the situation, or perhaps adjusting the R & C might make a difference; not a really serious problem IMO, but incompatibility with REX is unfortunate. IMO as the man behind most of the ModelT enhancements (with the notable exception of Ken's NADSbox) I think he's perfectly entitled to dictate how and what to make available publicly without having to justify anything. BTW, what not everyone knows is that any profit generated from the sale of his REX etc. went to support Club100... Original: I can still order quad v4 pcbs from oshpark, even though they are not otherwise available any more. I personally haven't had any problems with the v4. I'm not sure how bad the unreliable reset to bank 1 problem really is. Meaning, when it happens, really how bad is that for the user? Do you just reboot again and it probably resets the 2nd or 3rd time? Or if it happens are you forced to lose data to get back to bank 1? And presumably this is only even a problem if you do not have 0quad installed in the other bank, and can't install it either for some reason, to create the condition where you really need the power-on-to-bank-1 just to navigate at all? If you have 0quad installed in every bank, are you safe then? Badsically, I believe the problem exists, I'm just not sure how harmful it really is. Do people really need to be protected from ever using quadv4's, or is it fine to just have this be a known quirk of quadv4 and otherwise perfectly usable? If you have ever ordered a quad v4 pcb then you can probably order more too. Just go to "my projects" or "my orders" and it lets you order more of any past order even if the original project is no longer shared. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:24 PM Gregory McGill wrote: wish I could get more quads :) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four screens. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden Bossche Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 -- bkw
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
I managed to modify and re-share the rex ever so slightly, in that all I did was take an old version that wasn't pre-castellated, import into kicad, adjust the router path to make it castellated, and since then someone else has actually ordered and built working rexs from that. So, there is technically at least one tiny derivative work out there. I still want to make a few changes to rex to suit myself even if no one else wants that, and the nature of the changes are pure layout mechanics. I don't have to kniw how to have designed the thing in order to take a working design and move a few traces around. (Tangent: And at the speeds this device operates at, I bet there is little risk of causing problems with reflections or capacitance or time of flight no matter what I did, but lets say I *did*? Let's say I didn't change the schematic at all, but I introduced a problem purely be changing the shapes of the traces? With plans in public, it's effortless for someone else who knows more than me to see this on github or oshpark and just say "hey those should be 45 degree angles there to inhibit reflections..." and effortless for me to incorporate that advice, or effortless for someone else to fork the project to make that iprovement.) Just because I haven't yet gone further doesn't mean I never will or no one else ever will. Although sure, I may never. But if the work of others doesn't exist for me to add my .001% to, then I absolutely never will and neither will anyone else, and it's a dead end. It becomes "Some guy made something that sounded pretty cool once 14 years ago but they don't exist any more" so it's pointless to even talk about it now, and certainly pointless to actually develop any kind of software or other accessories that use it. Do what you want with the results of your own efforts *of course*, but myself I hate to spend any time on dead ends like that. If I write or design something and no one else ever adds to it and it never lives any longer than if I had simply tried to sell it as a proprietary product, well thems the natural breaks. It doesn't make me not want to do it. I spent a bunch of time designing a 3d printable enclosure fore the M1SE & M3SE. It solves a few challenges very elegantly in my opion. The biggest thing was figuring out a way to hold a part that has no mounting holes, without obstructing it's function, and using as few parts as possible. It works great and I am proud of the design and happy to have my name on it. It can be further improved. It turns out to be very difficult to get a print that isn't warped. It's great if you get a good print. But you probably won't get a good print. The plans and source cad files are explicitly published under gpl, and the cad software itself is also gpl, and so there is not now, nor ever will be, anything stopping anyone from taking that design and either printing new boxes for themselves without needing me to do it for them, or even hacking on it for whatever reasons they might want, like splitting up the largest part into sections tgat can more easily be printed without warping, but which then need to be assembeled some how. So far, no one has actually done so. That doesn't change any of the reasons for working on something in public and making it possible for anyone else to play with it, fork it, or add to the original, etc. This community is simply very small in it's entirety. Take a small percentage of a small population and it becomes expected that the collaborative hacking on any given thing will be infrequent. But the difference between possible and not-possible is all the difference in the world. To me "in the last 2 years no one has done X" does not imply "therefore it might as well not be possible to do X" As for oshpark, it is and always has been true, in a physical unavoidable reality sense, that once you release something then it has been released forever, not just on oshpark. Anyone who ever saw a thing, may remember it. That is a one-way operation and always was. The only thing that affects that is legal rights if claimed. Now, I'm not sure what kinds of copyrights are implied by any of the various ways you (Steve) have published things up to this time. I *think* that generally by default an author retains all rights unless explicitly stated otherwise, and maybe there are a few ways that statement can be implied by some other action. I don't know if anything you've done or said so far consitutes a release of exclusivity rights. You could declare now "I assert sole copying/publishing rights to X" and maybe that would mean I and anyone else would have to take down any copies and derivatives we currently have in public places. Or it might be too late for that and all it accomplishes is a lot of ill will. What is the difference between publishing a schematic, and publishing cad files? Or someone else publishing cad files they made themselves which express a schematic you've published? At least in terms of access to
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
Well, upgrading a 102 should only cost you around $6.00 or less and just involves plugging in a chip. If you're handy you could upgrade an 8K 100 for around the same amount... m - Original Message - From: Jan Vanden Bossche To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine Yes, I think so. But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the live RAM of the machine. But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 -- From: Stephen Adolph To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Friday, 25 January 2019, 20:20 Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine Ram images are sized to match what is in the M100. example you cite would be 24kB of usable image data within a 32 Kb "record" on the flash... does that answer the question ? ;) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:17 PM Fred Whitaker wrote: If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four screens. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden Bossche Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
> I recall someone suggesting that sharing designs would encourage "hacking". > I Have yet to see any shared derivatives. I recall getting a bunch of > suggestions on how rex could be improved layout wise. I guess no one > grabbed the baton. I would Have expected by now a new and improved design > for us all to benefit from. Maybe derivatives exist but have not been > shared. Who knows. I was one of those someones. I really appreciate your "releasing" the castellated PCB design. Since that time, I've taken steps to learn PCB layout in KiCad and have designed and manufactured a few SMT boards. It's still on my (admittedly low-priority) list to try to modify the REX for easier programming and hand-soldering. However, I'm not sure yet what it would take to bring the Eagle files into KiCad so I haven't investigated it yet. (Also, I have like 10^5 other things I'm working on so... :) And, building REX from the current OSHPARK board is not difficult enough that I've been driven to invest effort in improving the process. If I built more than I do I'd probably feel differently. Personally, I'm "okay" with best-effort or known-slightly-buggy releases of stuff in the hobbyist world. Lots of other projects release things with minor to not-so-minor issues (XT-IDE, mister, FlashFloppy), so I guess I'm accustomed to it. I'd rather see people release things at all than allow perfect to be the enemy of good and never release. Maybe it's the Linux hacker in me. Anyway, thanks for all you do and have done. And, likewise, to everyone who contributes to vintage computing and esp the M100 scene. -Josh
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
> -Original Message- > > I have posted the design for REX at club100. I feel this design is > pretty solid. > I have posted the design for T200RAM at club100. This is very simple > and good to go. Question: if someone like myself, who has no experience with PCB design nor the software tools used in the process, wanted to build a T200RAM board from the design posted at club100, what would I have to do to get some PCBs made? I found a zip file in your Club100 member files directory which says it contains 'eagle' files for the T200RAM board - is this something that a total novice can just upload to oshpark and have boards made correctly without any proprietary knowledge? I ask as someone who was very pleased to be able to now have four fully operational REX modules because the process of ordering correctly-made REX boards through oshpark was so accessible to someone like me with no experience designing or having PCBs made. It seems a terrible shame to have to add another layer of complexity to the learning process required to build these things. I don't mean to minimize how you feel about how oshpark has handled your designs, I'm just wondering how this leaves things for the rest of us... (and yes, I know that there are now a couple of options for buying ready-made REX modules now, but at the time when I started asking questions to learn that I had to build my own, those options weren't available; and in fact, I wonder if those people would be making and selling REX modules if the design hadn't been there on oshpark ready to be ordered?) jim
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
Yes, I think so. But that also means I had the concept wrong. I thought that the RAM-switching was done ON the REX, and that the live RAM was on the REX. If I understand it now - sorry I'm slow - the RAM-image is copied into the live RAM of the machine. But, that also mean that, in order to be able to take full advantage of REX, you do need a 32KB machine, or upgrade to it. Sad if you happen to find an 8KB Model 100, or a 24 KB Model 102... :-/ Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80 From: Stephen Adolph To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Friday, 25 January 2019, 20:20 Subject: Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine Ram images are sized to match what is in the M100. example you cite would be 24kB of usable image data within a 32 Kb "record" on the flash...does that answer the question ? ;) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:17 PM Fred Whitaker wrote: If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four screens. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden Bossche Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
QUAD V4 works ok with 0QUAD software, but I was unable to integrated it with REX.That is why I pulled the PCB because I'm not 100% confident in the design, and it didn't meet my goal of 100% interop with REX. I have shared my schematic for Quad V4, and V5 at club 100 for the purposes of collaboration. I also have a design for QUAD V6, which I have built. It is technically a better design, but harder to build. Hard enough that I don't want to build them. What Brian describes in his email is precisely why I am now quite reluctant to share designs in general, and specifically via OSHPARK. WRT OSHPARK: No where on OSHPARK's site do they declare that the act of releasing a design once, effectively releases it for all time. Author has no control over works once "published". As far as I am concerned this is offside behaviour. They should state somewhere what their policies are. My understanding originally was that as publisher I could control the ability to order the board. I was wrong. As a result I won't share via OSHPARK again. I disagree with their business model, I feel they are dishonest. However I still like the little purple boards so i'll still use the service. but no sharing. I have posted the design for REX at club100. I feel this design is pretty solid. I have posted the design for T200RAM at club100. This is very simple and good to go. Mike Stein and I collaborated on a M100ROM PCB - that is still shared via OSHPARK via my account since it was a collaboration. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:15 PM Brian White wrote: > I can still order quad v4 pcbs from oshpark, even though they are not > otherwise available any more. I personally haven't had any problems with > the v4. I'm not sure how bad the unreliable reset to bank 1 problem really > is. Meaning, when it happens, really how bad is that for the user? Do you > just reboot again and it probably resets the 2nd or 3rd time? Or if it > happens are you forced to lose data to get back to bank 1? And presumably > this is only even a problem if you do not have 0quad installed in the other > bank, and can't install it either for some reason, to create the condition > where you really need the power-on-to-bank-1 just to navigate at all? If > you have 0quad installed in every bank, are you safe then? > > Badsically, I believe the problem exists, I'm just not sure how harmful it > really is. Do people really need to be protected from ever using quadv4's, > or is it fine to just have this be a known quirk of quadv4 and otherwise > perfectly usable? > > If you have ever ordered a quad v4 pcb then you can probably order more > too. Just go to "my projects" or "my orders" and it lets you order more of > any past order even if the original project is no longer shared. > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:24 PM Gregory McGill > wrote: > >> wish I could get more quads :) >> >> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: >> >>> If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four >>> screens. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>> Windows 10 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan >>> Vanden Bossche >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM >>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >>> *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine >>> >>> If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you >>> still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? >>> >>> How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX >>> ? >>> >>> Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus >>> Jan-80 >>> >> > > -- > bkw >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
I can still order quad v4 pcbs from oshpark, even though they are not otherwise available any more. I personally haven't had any problems with the v4. I'm not sure how bad the unreliable reset to bank 1 problem really is. Meaning, when it happens, really how bad is that for the user? Do you just reboot again and it probably resets the 2nd or 3rd time? Or if it happens are you forced to lose data to get back to bank 1? And presumably this is only even a problem if you do not have 0quad installed in the other bank, and can't install it either for some reason, to create the condition where you really need the power-on-to-bank-1 just to navigate at all? If you have 0quad installed in every bank, are you safe then? Badsically, I believe the problem exists, I'm just not sure how harmful it really is. Do people really need to be protected from ever using quadv4's, or is it fine to just have this be a known quirk of quadv4 and otherwise perfectly usable? If you have ever ordered a quad v4 pcb then you can probably order more too. Just go to "my projects" or "my orders" and it lets you order more of any past order even if the original project is no longer shared. On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:24 PM Gregory McGill wrote: > wish I could get more quads :) > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: > >> If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four >> screens. >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >> Windows 10 >> >> >> -- >> *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden >> Bossche >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM >> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >> *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine >> >> If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you >> still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? >> >> How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? >> >> Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus >> Jan-80 >> > -- bkw
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
< what he said ;) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:25 PM Gregory McGill wrote: > bucket = 24k > flash image = 32k > > you can't put 32k in 24k so it will truncate at 24k.. or saving flash > images from that machine will only save 24k of data. because that's all > there is > > easy fix: I sell 8k ram at arcadeshopper.com > > Greg > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: > >> If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four >> screens. >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >> Windows 10 >> >> >> -- >> *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden >> Bossche >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM >> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >> *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine >> >> If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you >> still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? >> >> How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? >> >> Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus >> Jan-80 >> >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
bucket = 24k flash image = 32k you can't put 32k in 24k so it will truncate at 24k.. or saving flash images from that machine will only save 24k of data. because that's all there is easy fix: I sell 8k ram at arcadeshopper.com Greg On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: > If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four > screens. > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > -- > *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden > Bossche > *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > > If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still > enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? > > How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
wish I could get more quads :) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:17 AM Fred Whitaker wrote: > If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four > screens. > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > -- > *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden > Bossche > *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > > If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still > enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? > > How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
Ram images are sized to match what is in the M100. example you cite would be 24kB of usable image data within a 32 Kb "record" on the flash... does that answer the question ? ;) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:17 PM Fred Whitaker wrote: > If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four > screens. > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > -- > *From:* M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden > Bossche > *Sent:* Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Subject:* [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine > > If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still > enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? > > How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? > > Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus > Jan-80 >
Re: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
If it is a Model 100, and you have a quad, you can enjoy 32K on four screens. Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: M100 on behalf of Jan Vanden Bossche Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:51:18 AM To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] REX in a sub-standard machine If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80
[M100] REX in a sub-standard machine
If you plug in a REX in a machine that has only 24 KB of RAM, do you still enjoy RAM-images of 32 KB ? How does the standard 24 KB influece - or not - the operation of the REX ? Greetings from the TyRannoSaurus Jan-80
