Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Anthony Coghlan]

Thanks, Kurt.  That seems relatively straightforward.  I appreciate the
tech manual reference also.  I’ll try this mod sometime.

Best wishes,
Anthony



On Wednesday, May 2, 2018, Kurt McCullum <ku...@fastmail.com> wrote:

> Here is a link to the manual. A picture of the PCB is on page 1-6. It's
> the reserved through holes on that picture.
>
> Kurt
>
> *www.club100.org/ftp/T200servicemanual.pdf
> <http://www.club100.org/ftp/T200servicemanual.pdf>*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2018, at 4:47 AM, Anthony Coghlan wrote:
>
> Kurt, if it’s not already posted somewhere (in which case you can just
> refer me through the link), could you post / share the procedure for
> converting a 200 to use rechargeable AA batteries?  It was fortunately easy
> on the 100 but I believe a bit more involved on both the 200 and 102.
> Thanks.  That would be a nice upgrade.  I’ll check my NiCd backup battery
> while I’m in there also...
>
> Best wishes,
> Anthony
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, Kurt McCullum <ku...@fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Supercap definitely won't work in a 200. Just disassembled mine to finally
> put a NiCd backup  battery back in and make the conversion to rechargeable
> AA batteries .
> The supercaps do work in my 102 and 8201.
>
> Kurt
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, at 5:26 PM, John Gardner wrote:
>
> I did'nt change anything.  Note,  however,  that the 8201a is similar
>
> but not identical to the 100/102.  It's probably worth comparing the
>
> schematics before doing the modification.  Kurt,  IIRC,  had some
>
> issues with dropping a supercap into a 200...
>
> On 4/30/18, Jeffrey Birt <bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:
>
> Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I suspect not
> as
> it was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was charge as C/10 then
> any
> super cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John Gardner
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage
>
> I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.
>
> It just works,  so far.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Kurt McCullum]

Anthony,

It's actually not too difficult. Unlike the 100/102, the 200 PCB was
designed to allow this modification. I don't have access to the manuals
right now but basically, you disassemble the unit (Not an easy task so
please be careful especially with the ribbon cable connecting the
monitor) and you will see a separate PCB board holding the extra RAM
modules and the option ROM. On that PCB there are 4 holes for 2 jumpers.
The screen printing that surrounds them says Ni-CD. You just solder two
jumper wires.
I'm in the process of doing this right now. Unfortunately, my soldering
iron died so I'm waiting for a new one to arrive before I finish. After
the jumpers are put in place, the unit will trickle charge any batteries
placed in the battery compartment. So that means you can't put normal
batteries in and have AC connected at the same time.
Kurt


On Wed, May 2, 2018, at 4:47 AM, Anthony Coghlan wrote:
> Kurt, if it’s not already posted somewhere (in which case you can just
> refer me through the link), could you post / share the procedure for
> converting a 200 to use rechargeable AA batteries?  It was fortunately
> easy on the 100 but I believe a bit more involved on both the 200 and
> 102.  Thanks.  That would be a nice upgrade.  I’ll check my NiCd
> backup battery while I’m in there also...> 
> Best wishes,
> Anthony
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, Kurt McCullum <ku...@fastmail.com> wrote:
>> __
>> Supercap definitely won't work in a 200. Just disassembled mine to
>> finally put a NiCd backup  battery back in and make the conversion to
>> rechargeable AA batteries .>> The supercaps do work in my 102 and 8201.
>> 
>> Kurt
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, at 5:26 PM, John Gardner wrote:
>>> I did'nt change anything.  Note,  however,  that the 8201a is
>>> similar>>> 
>>> but not identical to the 100/102.  It's probably worth comparing the>>> 
>>> schematics before doing the modification.  Kurt,  IIRC,  had some
>>> 
>>> issues with dropping a supercap into a 200...
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/18, Jeffrey Birt <bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:
>>>> Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I
>>>> suspect not as>>>> it was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was 
>>>> charge as C/10
>>>> then any>>>> super cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).
>>>> 
>>>> Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John
>>>> Gardner>>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
>>>> To: m...@bitchin100.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage
>>>> 
>>>> I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.
>>>> 
>>>> It just works,  so far.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Anthony Coghlan]

Kurt, if it’s not already posted somewhere (in which case you can just
refer me through the link), could you post / share the procedure for
converting a 200 to use rechargeable AA batteries?  It was fortunately easy
on the 100 but I believe a bit more involved on both the 200 and 102.
Thanks.  That would be a nice upgrade.  I’ll check my NiCd backup battery
while I’m in there also...

Best wishes,
Anthony



On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, Kurt McCullum <ku...@fastmail.com> wrote:

> Supercap definitely won't work in a 200. Just disassembled mine to finally
> put a NiCd backup  battery back in and make the conversion to rechargeable
> AA batteries .
> The supercaps do work in my 102 and 8201.
>
> Kurt
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, at 5:26 PM, John Gardner wrote:
>
> I did'nt change anything.  Note,  however,  that the 8201a is similar
>
> but not identical to the 100/102.  It's probably worth comparing the
>
> schematics before doing the modification.  Kurt,  IIRC,  had some
>
> issues with dropping a supercap into a 200...
>
> On 4/30/18, Jeffrey Birt <bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:
>
> Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I suspect not
> as
> it was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was charge as C/10 then
> any
> super cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).
>
> Jeff
>
> -Original Message-
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John Gardner
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage
>
> I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.
>
> It just works,  so far.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Simon Bates]

On Tue, May 1, 2018, at 9:06 PM, David Laffineuse wrote:
> I have a spare original battery cover if interested.

Thank you very much for your very kind offer. That would be awesome.

And thank you everyone for your responses to this thread. As a new
member, this list feels like a very welcoming and supportive
community. Thanks!
Simon


> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:48 PM, Simon Bates
>  wrote:>> That would be awesome. Thank you.
>> 
>> I don't have a 3d printer.
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
>>> I can print some and put them in my store at arcadeshopper.com  
>>> 
>>> as for the corrosion use vinegar to neutralize the acid and a strong
>>> brush like a toothbrush to clean off the stuck on bits..>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:13 AM, John R. Hogerhuis
>>>  wrote: There are battery covers on thingverse. I 
>>> think you can get a 3rd
 party to print them if you don’t have the equipment. 
 
 — John. 
 
>> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[David Laffineuse]

I have a spare original battery cover if interested.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:48 PM, Simon Bates  wrote:
> 
> That would be awesome. Thank you.
> 
> I don't have a 3d printer.
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
>> I can print some and put them in my store at arcadeshopper.com  
>> 
>> as for the corrosion use vinegar to neutralize the acid and a strong brush 
>> like a toothbrush to clean off the stuck on bits.. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:13 AM, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:
>> There are battery covers on thingverse. I think you can get a 3rd party to 
>> print them if you don’t have the equipment. 
>> 
>> 
>> — John. 
>> 
> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Kurt McCullum]

Supercap definitely won't work in a 200. Just disassembled mine to
finally put a NiCd backup  battery back in and make the conversion to
rechargeable AA batteries .The supercaps do work in my 102 and 8201.

Kurt


On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, at 5:26 PM, John Gardner wrote:
> I did'nt change anything.  Note,  however,  that the 8201a is similar> 
> but not identical to the 100/102.  It's probably worth comparing the
> 
> schematics before doing the modification.  Kurt,  IIRC,  had some
> 
> issues with dropping a supercap into a 200...
> 
> On 4/30/18, Jeffrey Birt <bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:
>> Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I
>> suspect not as>> it was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was charge 
>> as C/10
>> then any>> super cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John
>> Gardner>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
>> To: m...@bitchin100.com
>> Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage
>> 
>> I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.
>> 
>> It just works,  so far.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[John Gardner]

I did'nt change anything.  Note,  however,  that the 8201a is similar

but not identical to the 100/102.  It's probably worth comparing the

schematics before doing the modification.  Kurt,  IIRC,  had some

issues with dropping a supercap into a 200...

On 4/30/18, Jeffrey Birt <bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:
> Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I suspect not as
> it was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was charge as C/10 then any
> super cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).
>
> Jeff
>
> -Original Message-
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John Gardner
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage
>
> I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.
>
> It just works,  so far.
>
>
>
>

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Jeffrey Birt]

Did you need to replace any part of the charging circuitry? I suspect not as it 
was the NiCad was only a 50mah part and if it was charge as C/10 then any super 
cap could handle the 5ma with no issues (I'm guessing).

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of John Gardner
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:50 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.

It just works,  so far.

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[John Gardner]

I replaced my two 8201a NiCds with supercaps 6-7 years ago.

It just works,  so far.

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> I am a new TRS-80 Model 100 owner and I had some queries that I was
> hoping that I might be able to get some help with.

Welcome!  It's a ton of fun.  I got my first eBay M100 about a year ago now, 
although I didn't get on this mailing list until much later (I wish I had 
joined sooner).

> [...]
> white vinegar but underneath the deposits, I see what looks like rust in
> some spots -- not places that contact the battery, but at the base of
> the spring coil contact, where electricity would at least need to flow
> through. I was wondering if there would be a way to replace the battery
> contact wiring without replacing the whole computer base?

I wouldn't worry about surface rust on the battery spring wire if it isn't in a 
spot where the battery makes contact.  If the corrosion is very bad, the spring 
wire could be eaten through sufficiently to weaken it and let it break off, but 
if it isn't that compromised it's not a big deal.  If there's enough wire left 
that it doesn't break off, there's more than enough wire to conduct the meagre 
amount of power the M100 draws.  :)

> The computer still has its NiCd battery and it looks like it's in good
> condition but I think it would be a good idea to remove it. Would that
> be recommended? And if so, I was wondering what method would be best? I
> was thinking to detach the motherboard from the case and de-solder the
> battery from the underside. Is that reasonable?

There are a couple of options people have been discussing lately.  Some people 
have been replacing it with a NiMH battery which is an exact fit, and some of 
us (myself included) have been replacing it with a supercapacitor.  I've heard 
arguments for and against both methods so I'm not 100% convinced which way is 
the best to go.  Yes, you'll need to desolder it from the underside of the 
motherboard.

My personal advice would be to either replace it or leave it be, rather than 
removing it and leaving the spot empty.  Without that battery you'll lose your 
RAM contents unless you are religious about plugging in an external power 
supply before changing batteries, etc.  With a REX you can backup/restore the 
RAM easily, or by using tback to a PC through a serial cable, but otherwise 
it's annoyingly tedious to have to back up and restore for every power hiccup.







jim

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Brian White]

There is at least a M100 and a T102 battery cover on thingiverse:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:955567
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:29533

And if you want a better quality print you can download the .stl file and
upload it to Shapeways.
Shapeways costs more, but they offer some higher quality printing methods
and materials.

-- 
bkw


On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Simon Bates 
wrote:

> Thanks very much for the info.
>
> Simon
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
>
> the battery cover on the model 100 almost always breaks. There was talk of
> 3D printing new ones but I don't know where that project is at.
> The NiCd should be replaced. You will need to take the motherboard out as
> you said. It is not too hard to do.
> As far as the corrosion, you should probably just clean it as best you can
> and not worry about replacing those parts if they're working.
>
> Welcome to the list.
>
> Kurt
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Simon Bates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am a new TRS-80 Model 100 owner and I had some queries that I was hoping
> that I might be able to get some help with.
>
> I just received a computer that I bought from eBay. I have been able to
> successfully run it on batteries and much of the computer appears to be in
> great shape. However, it has some issues that I didn't know about before I
> bought it (now I know some questions to ask in the future).
>
> It looks like at some point it had some battery leakage in the AA battery
> compartment. There was a lot of grey-green-brown deposits on the plastic
> and battery contact wires. I was able to remove most of it using white
> vinegar but underneath the deposits, I see what looks like rust in some
> spots -- not places that contact the battery, but at the base of the spring
> coil contact, where electricity would at least need to flow through. I was
> wondering if there would be a way to replace the battery contact wiring
> without replacing the whole computer base?
>
> There is also some bright blue corrosion on the DC power socket. I was
> able to remove some of it, but not all. Is that something that could be
> replaced?
>
> The battery cover does not latch properly. It looks like part has broken
> off. I can secure it with some tape, but I was wondering if it would be
> possible to replace it? Is that something that could be 3d printed?
>
> The computer still has its NiCd battery and it looks like it's in good
> condition but I think it would be a good idea to remove it. Would that be
> recommended? And if so, I was wondering what method would be best? I was
> thinking to detach the motherboard from the case and de-solder the battery
> from the underside. Is that reasonable?
>
> I'm looking forward to getting to know the Model 100 and getting it
> running as well as I can.
>
> Thanks very much for your help and I'm sorry for all the questions!
>
> Simon
>
>
>
>


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Simon Bates]

Thanks very much for the info.

Simon


On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
> the battery cover on the model 100 almost always breaks. There
> was talk of 3D printing new ones but I don't know where that
> project is at.> The NiCd should be replaced. You will need to take the 
> motherboard out
> as you said. It is not too hard to do.> As far as the corrosion, you should 
> probably just clean it as best you
> can and not worry about replacing those parts if they're working.> 
> Welcome to the list.
> 
> Kurt
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Simon Bates wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am a new TRS-80 Model 100 owner and I had some queries that I was
>> hoping that I might be able to get some help with.>> 
>> I just received a computer that I bought from eBay. I have been able
>> to successfully run it on batteries and much of the computer appears
>> to be in great shape. However, it has some issues that I didn't know
>> about before I bought it (now I know some questions to ask in the
>> future).>> 
>> It looks like at some point it had some battery leakage in the AA
>> battery compartment. There was a lot of grey-green-brown deposits on
>> the plastic and battery contact wires. I was able to remove most of
>> it using white vinegar but underneath the deposits, I see what looks
>> like rust in some spots -- not places that contact the battery, but
>> at the base of the spring coil contact, where electricity would at
>> least need to flow through. I was wondering if there would be a way
>> to replace the battery contact wiring without replacing the whole
>> computer base?>> 
>> There is also some bright blue corrosion on the DC power socket. I
>> was able to remove some of it, but not all. Is that something that
>> could be replaced?>> 
>> The battery cover does not latch properly. It looks like part has
>> broken off. I can secure it with some tape, but I was wondering if it
>> would be possible to replace it? Is that something that could be 3d
>> printed?>> 
>> The computer still has its NiCd battery and it looks like it's in
>> good condition but I think it would be a good idea to remove it.
>> Would that be recommended? And if so, I was wondering what method
>> would be best? I was thinking to detach the motherboard from the case
>> and de-solder the battery from the underside. Is that reasonable?>> 
>> I'm looking forward to getting to know the Model 100 and getting it
>> running as well as I can.>> 
>> Thanks very much for your help and I'm sorry for all the questions!
>> 
>> Simon
> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Simon Bates]

That would be awesome. Thank you.

I don't have a 3d printer.

Simon


On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
> I can print some and put them in my store at arcadeshopper.com  
> 
> as for the corrosion use vinegar to neutralize the acid and a strong
> brush like a toothbrush to clean off the stuck on bits..> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:13 AM, John R. Hogerhuis
>  wrote:>> There are battery covers on thingverse. I think 
> you can get a 3rd
>> party to print them if you don’t have the equipment.>> 
>> 
>> — John. 
>> 

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Gregory McGill]

I can print some and put them in my store at arcadeshopper.com

as for the corrosion use vinegar to neutralize the acid and a strong brush
like a toothbrush to clean off the stuck on bits..



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:13 AM, John R. Hogerhuis 
wrote:

> There are battery covers on thingverse. I think you can get a 3rd party to
> print them if you don’t have the equipment.
>
> — John.
>

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[John R. Hogerhuis]

There are battery covers on thingverse. I think you can get a 3rd party to
print them if you don’t have the equipment.

— John.

Re: [M100] New user, AA battery leakage

[Kurt McCullum]

the battery cover on the model 100 almost always breaks. There was talk
of 3D printing new ones but I don't know where that project is at.The NiCd 
should be replaced. You will need to take the motherboard out
as you said. It is not too hard to do.As far as the corrosion, you should 
probably just clean it as best you
can and not worry about replacing those parts if they're working.
Welcome to the list.

Kurt


On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, at 8:15 AM, Simon Bates wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am a new TRS-80 Model 100 owner and I had some queries that I was
> hoping that I might be able to get some help with.> 
> I just received a computer that I bought from eBay. I have been able
> to successfully run it on batteries and much of the computer appears
> to be in great shape. However, it has some issues that I didn't know
> about before I bought it (now I know some questions to ask in the
> future).> 
> It looks like at some point it had some battery leakage in the AA
> battery compartment. There was a lot of grey-green-brown deposits on
> the plastic and battery contact wires. I was able to remove most of it
> using white vinegar but underneath the deposits, I see what looks like
> rust in some spots -- not places that contact the battery, but at the
> base of the spring coil contact, where electricity would at least need
> to flow through. I was wondering if there would be a way to replace
> the battery contact wiring without replacing the whole computer base?> 
> There is also some bright blue corrosion on the DC power socket. I was
> able to remove some of it, but not all. Is that something that could
> be replaced?> 
> The battery cover does not latch properly. It looks like part has
> broken off. I can secure it with some tape, but I was wondering if it
> would be possible to replace it? Is that something that could be 3d
> printed?> 
> The computer still has its NiCd battery and it looks like it's in good
> condition but I think it would be a good idea to remove it. Would that
> be recommended? And if so, I was wondering what method would be best?
> I was thinking to detach the motherboard from the case and de-solder
> the battery from the underside. Is that reasonable?> 
> I'm looking forward to getting to know the Model 100 and getting it
> running as well as I can.> 
> Thanks very much for your help and I'm sorry for all the questions!
> 
> Simon