Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 2:03 PM Rainer Müller wrote: > > On 14.06.19 13:01, Nils Breunese wrote: > > > > Chris jones wrote: > > > >> ( The main problem I have, is not something specific to Riot or whatever > >> forum we use, but more we need to perhaps give some thought to the > >> channels. Currently there is really only one, which gets (some) chat but > >> also messages for each and every commit. I don't think the average user > >> needs to see each and every commit. I think we probably need to split > >> these, for instance into Dev and User channels, to match the mailing lists > >> perhaps. ) > > > > I’d go even more granular: create a dedicated channel for commits and > > everyone can decide whether to follow that or not. > I am not sure how useful such a dedicated channel would be if only > automated messages will be posted and no discussion takes place. > Sometimes the mplog messages are even used during conversations, like > "see this commit, now it is fixed". > > For those that really do not want to see these messages, I would > recommend to add mplog to their your ignore list. That works in IRC > clients and also in Riot. > > The bot is operated by me, but if others also think that the bot is > annoying, I do not insist on keeping it running or moving it to another > channel. I like the mplog on #macports. If someone doesn't like it, I would say they put it in their ignore list. IIRC, we did try to create a separate channel for #macports-gsoc but then after some time we ended up in #macports, because there were more users out their who could and would like to share ideas. Splitting of channels, IMHO, might not be a good idea. It works fine as a separate Mailing list, but maybe not on IRC. I do agree, that one might get lost in all the chatter that might happen all at one place, but yeah that is same in most of the platforms, at least the ones that I have used. I do like the idea of threads (in slack), maybe we need to look if they are in some libre/open-source alternative ? -- Jackson Isaac
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 14.06.19 13:01, Nils Breunese wrote: > > Chris jones wrote: > >> ( The main problem I have, is not something specific to Riot or whatever >> forum we use, but more we need to perhaps give some thought to the channels. >> Currently there is really only one, which gets (some) chat but also messages >> for each and every commit. I don't think the average user needs to see each >> and every commit. I think we probably need to split these, for instance into >> Dev and User channels, to match the mailing lists perhaps. ) > > I’d go even more granular: create a dedicated channel for commits and > everyone can decide whether to follow that or not. I am not sure how useful such a dedicated channel would be if only automated messages will be posted and no discussion takes place. Sometimes the mplog messages are even used during conversations, like "see this commit, now it is fixed". For those that really do not want to see these messages, I would recommend to add mplog to their your ignore list. That works in IRC clients and also in Riot. The bot is operated by me, but if others also think that the bot is annoying, I do not insist on keeping it running or moving it to another channel. Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 14.06.19 11:10, Chris Jones wrote: > ( The main problem I have, is not something specific to Riot or whatever > forum we use, but more we need to perhaps give some thought to the > channels. Currently there is really only one, which gets (some) chat but > also messages for each and every commit. I don't think the average user > needs to see each and every commit. I think we probably need to split > these, for instance into Dev and User channels, to match the mailing > lists perhaps. ) I would be afraid that by removing the development discussions, the channel would appear mostly dead. The traffic is already quite low. If at all, I would keep #macports as user channel and create another #macports-dev for deeper discussions of internals. However, development discussions happen rarely and are usually started by something that would rather be categorized as a user question. Which means we would have to force ourselves to move the discussion to another channel as soon as it gets to a development topic... Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
Chris jones wrote: > ( The main problem I have, is not something specific to Riot or whatever > forum we use, but more we need to perhaps give some thought to the channels. > Currently there is really only one, which gets (some) chat but also messages > for each and every commit. I don't think the average user needs to see each > and every commit. I think we probably need to split these, for instance into > Dev and User channels, to match the mailing lists perhaps. ) I’d go even more granular: create a dedicated channel for commits and everyone can decide whether to follow that or not. Nils.
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
I would say we can try Riot (also mentioned earlier by Rainer), as I see lot of pros put up for it in [1]. We can also explore discord as an option. If none works, we can stick to IRC. I've been trying Riot out for a bit now, since this discussion started. Its not bad I would say.. ( The main problem I have, is not something specific to Riot or whatever forum we use, but more we need to perhaps give some thought to the channels. Currently there is really only one, which gets (some) chat but also messages for each and every commit. I don't think the average user needs to see each and every commit. I think we probably need to split these, for instance into Dev and User channels, to match the mailing lists perhaps. ) Chris
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 8:04 AM Mojca Miklavec wrote: > > Hi, > > As a quick feedback: Gitter doesn't seem to be mature enough, so that > those of us who kept testing it (for about three weeks) would want to > use it in the long run. > > * The Android app constantly keeps crashing. > * Even if it is not crashing, I wasn't able to configure it to get > notifications when a new message arrived that I would want to see it. > * Browser updates sometimes work, sometimes not. Very often one needs > to keep refreshing the browser and hope that something works > (sometimes the contents disappears completely). > * Channels are very tightly bound to git repositories, but unless you > sell your soul to the plugin, it seems hard to configure it properly, > and we never got it working once we migrated the github repository to > a different address (not that we tried that hard, but we did try). > * Functionality is very limited. > * No topics. > * I was subscribed to another channel with heavy traffic that I'm not > really interested in that much other than maybe checking it once per > week. Once I allowed notifications from the app (I did that under > Windows) to be able to respond to the student faster, I started being > bombarded with messaged from the other channel, and I was unable to > silence them until I completely removed the channel. And even then I > kept getting email two days later about the new posts in that channel. > * Receiving a bunch of emails reminding me of content that I have > already read two days ago. > > While it is very easy to initially set up, it is just not yet worth > considering as a serious platform to "replace" our official > communication channel. > > What should we try next? > Alternatives to IRC that I use (at work and tried at other projects) are Discord, Slack and MS Teams. Not too many options that I have explored, so did a quick google and found [1]. I would say we can try Riot (also mentioned earlier by Rainer), as I see lot of pros put up for it in [1]. We can also explore discord as an option. If none works, we can stick to IRC. [1] https://www.slant.co/options/4557/alternatives/~irc-alternatives -- Jackson Isaac
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
Hi, As a quick feedback: Gitter doesn't seem to be mature enough, so that those of us who kept testing it (for about three weeks) would want to use it in the long run. * The Android app constantly keeps crashing. * Even if it is not crashing, I wasn't able to configure it to get notifications when a new message arrived that I would want to see it. * Browser updates sometimes work, sometimes not. Very often one needs to keep refreshing the browser and hope that something works (sometimes the contents disappears completely). * Channels are very tightly bound to git repositories, but unless you sell your soul to the plugin, it seems hard to configure it properly, and we never got it working once we migrated the github repository to a different address (not that we tried that hard, but we did try). * Functionality is very limited. * No topics. * I was subscribed to another channel with heavy traffic that I'm not really interested in that much other than maybe checking it once per week. Once I allowed notifications from the app (I did that under Windows) to be able to respond to the student faster, I started being bombarded with messaged from the other channel, and I was unable to silence them until I completely removed the channel. And even then I kept getting email two days later about the new posts in that channel. * Receiving a bunch of emails reminding me of content that I have already read two days ago. While it is very easy to initially set up, it is just not yet worth considering as a serious platform to "replace" our official communication channel. What should we try next? Mojca On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:54, Umesh Singla wrote: > > I remember seeing Gitter.im being used by more than a usual number of open > source communities in the past. While I am personally fine with Github > Issues/PRs and emails, a chat-like application does come in handy for quick > replies. > > I logged in just now to my old account from over 2 years back and I see no > limits on the messages. You can sign in with Github/Twitter. There is this > idea of community and rooms like IRC, and while anyone can read the community > messages by visiting the link, one needs to sign in to talk. It's linked to a > Github organization and owners of the organization act like admins. It also > allows for one-on-one conversations and rooms where only invited users can > join. > > An example would be: https://gitter.im/coala/coala > > @Mojca would you be willing to give this https://gitter.im/macports-gsoc a > try? I tried creating one suitable for us. Let me know if you are able to see > the secret room. :) > > Thanks, > Umesh
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 18.05.19 00:04, Rainer Müller wrote: > On 17.05.19 23:54, Umesh Singla wrote: >> I tried setting one up. Well, it only takes one to sign up (email >> optional) and create rooms. Please give it >> a try: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#macports-public:matrix.org. This >> one's a public room, you can see the messages but not talk until you >> sign up. > > You do not need to create a new room. Please just join the existing > #freenode_#macports:matrix.org, which is bridged to our IRC channel.> > I think this is the best approach, because we already have a large user > base in the IRC channel. The Matrix bridge is ideal for those who wish > to use a more mordern client or do not want to run their own bouncer to > always stay connected. I noticed now that only users registered with NickServ where allowed to speak on the IRC channel. This might also have prevented new users connected via Matrix to speak, unless you also registered with NickServ. In case you could join the channel but were unable to send messages, please try again now. We had enabled this due to a spam wave a few months ago. I hope we can relax this limitation now without getting the spam bots again. Sorry, I had not thought of disabling this before. Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 19:47, Rainer Müller wrote: > > I am really confused what you want to set up for Matrix? If you are asking me ... I don't know, I never used it and I never took a closer look, so I'm not sure how it works. I assumed that someone needs to configure something somewhere to properly connect everything and to "meet at the same place" for MacPorts. Mojca
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
If you want I can try to setup the Community and the IRC bridge... On Thu, 16 May 2019, 08:31 Ruben Di Battista, wrote: > I would like to stress once again about Matrix. > > If we setup Matrix, we can bridge the channels with whatever service you > might need. First of all IRC, so people that like to keep hanging out there > can still do it with the additional benefits of having more people to talk > with. > > These other people would access the same chat stream from whatever client > they want to (we might need to setup self hosted bridges for them...). That > means potentially you can have bridges from Gitter, Rocket.Chat, Slack or > even WhatsApp if you like so, altogether working bijectively. > > I would strongly consider it since this way we are not stuck with a > specific service but you can merge them together if you wish so... > > I would propose to setup a Matrix community for Macports and bridge its > channels with the IRC ones. This does not need any self hosting capability. > > As a step two we might also want to experiment with the Gitter bridge > since someone else already configured a channel there... > > What do you think? > > > > > On Thu, 16 May 2019, 08:21 Rainer Müller, wrote: > >> On 2019-05-14 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote: >> > For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However, >> > when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of >> > threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not >> > have >> > long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not >> > that important here. >> >> Turns out the newest version of Rocket Chat already has >> "sub-discussions" for this, so my point above is not fully valid. I have >> not worked with the latest version, so my experience with Rocket Chat >> might be more limited than I thought. >> >> Rainer >> >
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
I would like to stress once again about Matrix. If we setup Matrix, we can bridge the channels with whatever service you might need. First of all IRC, so people that like to keep hanging out there can still do it with the additional benefits of having more people to talk with. These other people would access the same chat stream from whatever client they want to (we might need to setup self hosted bridges for them...). That means potentially you can have bridges from Gitter, Rocket.Chat, Slack or even WhatsApp if you like so, altogether working bijectively. I would strongly consider it since this way we are not stuck with a specific service but you can merge them together if you wish so... I would propose to setup a Matrix community for Macports and bridge its channels with the IRC ones. This does not need any self hosting capability. As a step two we might also want to experiment with the Gitter bridge since someone else already configured a channel there... What do you think? On Thu, 16 May 2019, 08:21 Rainer Müller, wrote: > On 2019-05-14 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote: > > For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However, > > when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of > > threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not > > have > > long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not > > that important here. > > Turns out the newest version of Rocket Chat already has > "sub-discussions" for this, so my point above is not fully valid. I have > not worked with the latest version, so my experience with Rocket Chat > might be more limited than I thought. > > Rainer >
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 2019-05-14 22:32, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote:
>>> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed?
>>> (Or is it too complex / too much work?)
>>
>> I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the
>> maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability.
For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However,
when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of
threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not
have
long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not
that important here.
I don't have any experience with Matrix, but I maybe I should try it
once.
I'm not familiar with Rocket Chat either, but if you missed a feature,
I trust your opinion.
I do believe that longer conversations are important. Think of GSOC,
where the same project runs for 5 months or longer. It does make sense
to keep it well-organised.
Zulip offers topics (which they heavily advertise as one of their
"superpowers") which I find to be quite a nice "substitute" for
threads like those in emails. If we pick that one, I would certainly
go for GitHub OAuth and IRC mirror.
I would discard the idea of using Slack. Based on general feedback
that probably leaves the following top candidates?
- Matrix (might work without self-hosting)
- Zulip
- Mattermost
Rainer, you did not answer about whether you would be willing to try
to install / maintain one of those on the server if we wanted to
self-host the chat?
Of course, I would be in favor of something where we do not need to do
the maintenance. But if there is no option that is free and offers all
features we want, it would be possible to host it on our server.
Preferably with authentication with GitHub to ease administration of
groups and privileges.
Regarding Matrix: is anyone willing to set up one ("in the cloud") for
testing?
You could just use the matrix.org as a homeserver, which is open for
registrations by all. The best client I am aware of would be
https://riot.im, which uses matrix.org as default and can register new
accounts. It offers a solution for all of Web/Desktop/Mobile. Joining
the FreeNode IRC Bridge should be possible from all homeservers and with
any client though, via a special channel name.
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/Bridged-IRC-networks
Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 2019-05-14 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote: For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However, when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not have long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not that important here. Turns out the newest version of Rocket Chat already has "sub-discussions" for this, so my point above is not fully valid. I have not worked with the latest version, so my experience with Rocket Chat might be more limited than I thought. Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
I remember seeing Gitter.im being used by more than a usual number of open
source communities in the past. While I am personally fine with Github
Issues/PRs and emails, a chat-like application does come in handy for quick
replies.
I logged in just now to my old account from over 2 years back and I see no
limits on the messages. You can sign in with Github/Twitter. There is this
idea of community and rooms like IRC, and while anyone can read the
community messages by visiting the link, one needs to sign in to talk. It's
linked to a Github organization and owners of the organization act like
admins. It also allows for one-on-one conversations and rooms where only
invited users can join.
An example would be: https://gitter.im/coala/coala
@Mojca would you be willing to give this https://gitter.im/macports-gsoc a
try? I tried creating one suitable for us. Let me know if you are able to
see the secret room. :)
Thanks,
Umesh
On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 2:02 AM Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote:
> >
> > I think Slack workspaces are also always invite only, but please correct
> > me if I am wrong (maybe only for paid plans?). Assuming we might want to
> > replace IRC one day as the official development and support chat, that
> > would not work well.
> >
> > I think it is important that this would be open for anyone interested to
> > join, with private group chats as an optional feature.
>
> +1
>
> > > We don't need to all agree at once. I don't see anything wrong with
> > > giving it some testing first and decide what's best (no need to ask
> > > everyone to turn IRC off :).
> >
> > I recently tried the Matrix IRC Bridge to FreeNode IRC. By using riot.im
> > it actually works quite well and was easy to set up. It also solves the
> > "always-on" problem of IRC as it acts like a bouncer.
> >
> > >>> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if
> needed?
> > >>> (Or is it too complex / too much work?)
> > >>
> > >> I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the
> > >> maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability.
> >
> > For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However,
> > when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of
> > threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not have
> > long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not
> > that important here.
>
> I don't have any experience with Matrix, but I maybe I should try it once.
>
> I'm not familiar with Rocket Chat either, but if you missed a feature,
> I trust your opinion.
>
> I do believe that longer conversations are important. Think of GSOC,
> where the same project runs for 5 months or longer. It does make sense
> to keep it well-organised.
>
> Zulip offers topics (which they heavily advertise as one of their
> "superpowers") which I find to be quite a nice "substitute" for
> threads like those in emails. If we pick that one, I would certainly
> go for GitHub OAuth and IRC mirror.
>
> I would discard the idea of using Slack. Based on general feedback
> that probably leaves the following top candidates?
> - Matrix (might work without self-hosting)
> - Zulip
> - Mattermost
>
> Rainer, you did not answer about whether you would be willing to try
> to install / maintain one of those on the server if we wanted to
> self-host the chat?
>
> Regarding Matrix: is anyone willing to set up one ("in the cloud") for
> testing?
>
> Mojca
>
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 18:11, Rainer Müller wrote:
>
> I think Slack workspaces are also always invite only, but please correct
> me if I am wrong (maybe only for paid plans?). Assuming we might want to
> replace IRC one day as the official development and support chat, that
> would not work well.
>
> I think it is important that this would be open for anyone interested to
> join, with private group chats as an optional feature.
+1
> > We don't need to all agree at once. I don't see anything wrong with
> > giving it some testing first and decide what's best (no need to ask
> > everyone to turn IRC off :).
>
> I recently tried the Matrix IRC Bridge to FreeNode IRC. By using riot.im
> it actually works quite well and was easy to set up. It also solves the
> "always-on" problem of IRC as it acts like a bouncer.
>
> >>> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed?
> >>> (Or is it too complex / too much work?)
> >>
> >> I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the
> >> maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability.
>
> For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However,
> when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of
> threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not have
> long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not
> that important here.
I don't have any experience with Matrix, but I maybe I should try it once.
I'm not familiar with Rocket Chat either, but if you missed a feature,
I trust your opinion.
I do believe that longer conversations are important. Think of GSOC,
where the same project runs for 5 months or longer. It does make sense
to keep it well-organised.
Zulip offers topics (which they heavily advertise as one of their
"superpowers") which I find to be quite a nice "substitute" for
threads like those in emails. If we pick that one, I would certainly
go for GitHub OAuth and IRC mirror.
I would discard the idea of using Slack. Based on general feedback
that probably leaves the following top candidates?
- Matrix (might work without self-hosting)
- Zulip
- Mattermost
Rainer, you did not answer about whether you would be willing to try
to install / maintain one of those on the server if we wanted to
self-host the chat?
Regarding Matrix: is anyone willing to set up one ("in the cloud") for testing?
Mojca
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 19:15, Nils Breunese wrote: > > Slack provides shareable invite links, but they expire. This blog post lists > some other options: > > https://intoli.com/blog/make-a-public-slack-community/ > > Looks like it requires some work, but it’s possible to setup. > Note that I don’t have a big opinion on whether Slack is a good idea or not. Apart from being closed-source (well, so is GitHub!), Slack does the job well only when you are either a paying customer, or when you don't care about the chat history. Given the good alternatives, I'm not too thrilled to use it, except if we need to set up something quickly. Mojca
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
Rainer Müller wrote: > I think Slack workspaces are also always invite only, but please correct > me if I am wrong (maybe only for paid plans?). Slack provides shareable invite links, but they expire. This blog post lists some other options: https://intoli.com/blog/make-a-public-slack-community/ Looks like it requires some work, but it’s possible to setup. Note that I don’t have a big opinion on whether Slack is a good idea or not. Nils.
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 12.05.19 21:49, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 21:15, Clemens Lang wrote: >> On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 11:38:16PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote: >>> I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and >>> PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with >>> respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... >>> for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially >>> simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a >>> task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, >>> cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) >> >> I don't have particularly strong feelings about any of these solutions >> with a slight tendency towards an open source solution. > > I would prefer OpenSource as well. > > My experience from work was that we started with Slack (which btw. > works very nice) and initially everyone said that we would use it just > as real-time chat and that nobody would ever need the archives. That > is: until someone needed them. At that point the solution was > considered way to expensive to be used long-term and we switched to > something else. I think Slack workspaces are also always invite only, but please correct me if I am wrong (maybe only for paid plans?). Assuming we might want to replace IRC one day as the official development and support chat, that would not work well. I think it is important that this would be open for anyone interested to join, with private group chats as an optional feature. >> I do see the >> benefits compared to IRC also from experience at work. If that's >> something we as a community agree on, I wouldn't mind switching my IRC >> presence. > > We don't need to all agree at once. I don't see anything wrong with > giving it some testing first and decide what's best (no need to ask > everyone to turn IRC off :). I recently tried the Matrix IRC Bridge to FreeNode IRC. By using riot.im it actually works quite well and was easy to set up. It also solves the "always-on" problem of IRC as it acts like a bouncer. >>> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? >>> (Or is it too complex / too much work?) >> >> I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the >> maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability. For the self-hosted options, Rocket Chat would be an option. However, when we used it at work, after a while I started to miss some kind of threading for longer conversations. Although we also usually do not have long conversations or that much activity on IRC, so maybe this is not that important here. Rainer
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
We could also try discord. It’s free like slack, but doesn’t have
limitations in the free version. RocketChat or the like might be worth it
if we want to run it on heroku or aws or something. With Slack there may be
Open Source project exceptions that let us use the premium stuff for free.
(I’ve been finding a lot of stuff like that. For instance JIRA cloud has
free options for open source.) I don’t mind IRC but I’d prefer to be able
to sign in with my phone since I’m on Eastern time and a lot of you are on
Pacific and various European times so I never know when people are around.
—Mark
On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:15 PM Andrew Janke wrote:
>
> On 5/12/19 3:49 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > I looked at Zulip chat which was used for GSOC meeting. That one would
> > also only retain the last few thousand messages unless we payed an
> > amount that we could not afford as a project.
> > Mattermost probably doesn't offer any free SaaS option?
> > Discord would probably work as a free service, but I'm not too keen
> about it.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind cloud solutions, but it probably boils down to either
> > paying, or being limited by X, or hosting it yourself.
>
> You might consider Matrix as a first candidate, then? I've been playing
> around with the various Slack clones for my own group recently, and my
> understanding is that the free hosted SaaS version of Matrix on
> matrix.org both retains all messages permanently, and has a good
> migration path if and when you decide to host your own Matrix instance:
> when users on your own instance ("homeserver") join Rooms originated on
> the matrix.org instance, that will cause propagation of the entire Room
> history to your server. You just need to make sure you configure the
> room so that all members can see the entire room history, not just since
> they joined; I don't recall if that's the default. If you configure it
> so that all members can see the entire history of the room, you then
> have a public archive.
>
> And Matrix seems to be the open source-iest of this crop of clones.
> They're all about the open federated protocol, which is being developed
> in public and ostensibly to be handed over to an independent foundation
> eventually, and then provide an open-source client on top of that.
>
> > Mattermost probably doesn't offer any free SaaS option?
>
> Mattermost only offers a free 30-day trial for their SaaS option. Their
> model is really more about self-hosting, and selling a hosting service.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile on iPhone
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On 5/12/19 3:49 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> I looked at Zulip chat which was used for GSOC meeting. That one would
> also only retain the last few thousand messages unless we payed an
> amount that we could not afford as a project.
> Mattermost probably doesn't offer any free SaaS option?
> Discord would probably work as a free service, but I'm not too keen about it.
>
> I wouldn't mind cloud solutions, but it probably boils down to either
> paying, or being limited by X, or hosting it yourself.
You might consider Matrix as a first candidate, then? I've been playing
around with the various Slack clones for my own group recently, and my
understanding is that the free hosted SaaS version of Matrix on
matrix.org both retains all messages permanently, and has a good
migration path if and when you decide to host your own Matrix instance:
when users on your own instance ("homeserver") join Rooms originated on
the matrix.org instance, that will cause propagation of the entire Room
history to your server. You just need to make sure you configure the
room so that all members can see the entire room history, not just since
they joined; I don't recall if that's the default. If you configure it
so that all members can see the entire history of the room, you then
have a public archive.
And Matrix seems to be the open source-iest of this crop of clones.
They're all about the open federated protocol, which is being developed
in public and ostensibly to be handed over to an independent foundation
eventually, and then provide an open-source client on top of that.
> Mattermost probably doesn't offer any free SaaS option?
Mattermost only offers a free 30-day trial for their SaaS option. Their
model is really more about self-hosting, and selling a hosting service.
Cheers,
Andrew
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 21:15, Clemens Lang wrote: > On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 11:38:16PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > > I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and > > PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with > > respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... > > for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially > > simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a > > task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, > > cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) > > I don't have particularly strong feelings about any of these solutions > with a slight tendency towards an open source solution. I would prefer OpenSource as well. My experience from work was that we started with Slack (which btw. works very nice) and initially everyone said that we would use it just as real-time chat and that nobody would ever need the archives. That is: until someone needed them. At that point the solution was considered way to expensive to be used long-term and we switched to something else. > I do see the > benefits compared to IRC also from experience at work. If that's > something we as a community agree on, I wouldn't mind switching my IRC > presence. We don't need to all agree at once. I don't see anything wrong with giving it some testing first and decide what's best (no need to ask everyone to turn IRC off :). > > Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? > > (Or is it too complex / too much work?) > > I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the > maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability. One can in principle integrate many things (commit messages, buildbot reports, pull request notifications, irc gateway, ...) I looked at Zulip chat which was used for GSOC meeting. That one would also only retain the last few thousand messages unless we payed an amount that we could not afford as a project. Mattermost probably doesn't offer any free SaaS option? Discord would probably work as a free service, but I'm not too keen about it. I wouldn't mind cloud solutions, but it probably boils down to either paying, or being limited by X, or hosting it yourself. Mojca
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
Hi, On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 11:38:16PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and > PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with > respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... > for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially > simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a > task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, > cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) I don't have particularly strong feelings about any of these solutions with a slight tendency towards an open source solution. I do see the benefits compared to IRC also from experience at work. If that's something we as a community agree on, I wouldn't mind switching my IRC presence. > Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? > (Or is it too complex / too much work?) I'd prefer a SaaS offering here. Self-hosting just increases the maintenance burden and I don't think we need the configurability. -- Clemens
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
Hi, I think setting up something like this would be a great idea. Like mojca, irc is no use to me for a number of reasons. I need to be able to be offline for periods, and switch between multiple different devices without missing messages, and with irc this is tough.. We use a self hosted mattermost service at work, which is basically just like slack... Its macOS and iOS clients are pretty good. Chris > On 9 May 2019, at 10:48 pm, Ao Liu wrote: > > I strongly recommend Slack. It has been used in many national labs nowadays. > Smartphone apps are also done nicely. > >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 4:43 PM Ruben Di Battista >> wrote: >> I suggest to get a look to Matrix.org. They perfectly integrate with IRC, >> but they have bridges for everything. No need to self host (but you can and >> it's federated with the rest of the fédération) >> >> It's a pretty cool technology IMHO. >> >> >>> On Thu, 9 May 2019, 23:38 Mojca Miklavec, wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and >>> PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with >>> respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... >>> for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially >>> simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a >>> task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, >>> cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) >>> >>> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? >>> (Or is it too complex / too much work?) >>> >>> I strongly suspect that one of those services also integrates pretty >>> well with IRC. I've been using Slack, Zulip, Discord, Gitter at >>> various occasions and I like the way they work. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Mojca
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
I strongly recommend Slack. It has been used in many national labs nowadays. Smartphone apps are also done nicely. On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 4:43 PM Ruben Di Battista wrote: > I suggest to get a look to Matrix.org. They perfectly integrate with IRC, > but they have bridges for everything. No need to self host (but you can and > it's federated with the rest of the fédération) > > It's a pretty cool technology IMHO. > > > On Thu, 9 May 2019, 23:38 Mojca Miklavec, wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and >> PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with >> respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... >> for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially >> simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a >> task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, >> cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) >> >> Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? >> (Or is it too complex / too much work?) >> >> I strongly suspect that one of those services also integrates pretty >> well with IRC. I've been using Slack, Zulip, Discord, Gitter at >> various occasions and I like the way they work. >> >> Thank you, >> Mojca >> >
Re: Slack-like chat (also for GSOC)
I suggest to get a look to Matrix.org. They perfectly integrate with IRC, but they have bridges for everything. No need to self host (but you can and it's federated with the rest of the fédération) It's a pretty cool technology IMHO. On Thu, 9 May 2019, 23:38 Mojca Miklavec, wrote: > Hi, > > I know that our official channels only include mailing lists, IRC and > PR/ticket discussion so far, but I'm curious about your stand with > respect to setting up a service like Zulip Chat / Rocket Chat / ... > for aiding the GSOC communication when higher frequency of potentially > simple questions would be needed. I know IRC could fulfill such a > task, but it doesn't work too well for me. (I'm offline when at work, > cannot really use phone efficiently for communication etc..) > > Would it be realistic to install such a service on breaburn if needed? > (Or is it too complex / too much work?) > > I strongly suspect that one of those services also integrates pretty > well with IRC. I've been using Slack, Zulip, Discord, Gitter at > various occasions and I like the way they work. > > Thank you, > Mojca >
