Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages? / problem with re-installing due to incomplete uninstall
On Dec 8, 2009, at 15:37, Vlado Plaga wrote: uninstalled MacPorts as described in the documentation, reinstalled a new xcode and MacPorts, and wanted to first install DigiKam by simply saying port install digikam. This failed after a short time because the file /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist was in the way, when MacPorts tried to activate the dbus port. So probably rm /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist should be added to the uninstall description? http://guide.macports.org/#installing.macports.uninstalling It looks like the uninstall instructions in the FAQ are more up to date: http://trac.macports.org/wiki/FAQ#uninstall I didn't remember we also had uninstall instructions in the guide. Perhaps we should update the guide to match the FAQ entry, then make the FAQ entry a pointer to the guide so it doesn't get out of sync again. I don't want to specifically mention /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist because that file is specific to the dbus port. There are undoubtedly other ports that install things in other nonstandard locations but the general uninstall instructions in the FAQ address this sufficiently IMHO by suggesting you first port uninstall everything. We could add a note to the instructions though to mention that they might not uninstall absolutely everything. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages? / give Linux another try
On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:26:00 +1100 Joshua Root j...@macports.org wrote: That's an orthogonal problem which affects source-based distributions as well. You are right, of course. There's no reason binaries couldn't be updated whenever the ports they are built from are updated. Also true. I guess that is in a way what the people behind Debian sid/unstable do. Still it is a lot easier to just update a few Portfiles, compared to building and testing so many different binaries (and providing a server infrastructure so people can actually download these), obviously... and why should anyone do all this work for free for a non-free operating system? Vlado ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages? / give Linux another try
On Dec 1, 2009, at 15:45, Vlado Plaga wrote: Still it is a lot easier to just update a few Portfiles, compared to building and testing so many different binaries (and providing a server infrastructure so people can actually download these), Well, it should be architected so that the process is still the same for port maintainers: all they should have to do is update their portfile, and the build server would automatically kick off builds for each supported system, package it up, and make it available for download. That's the system we want that hasn't been built yet. obviously... and why should anyone do all this work for free for a non-free operating system? For the same reason any of us do any work at all on MacPorts. Because it benefits ourselves and our community and we enjoy doing it. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Joshua Root j...@macports.org wrote: On 2009-11-30 20:28, Jasper Frumau wrote: Well, but who has the authority to choose the packaging format? Whoever does the work, really. And how many base developers does Mac Ports have at its disposal at the moment? Hard question to answer meaningfully (beyond not a lot), but as a rough metric, here are the commit counts to trunk/base in the last year: j...@macports.org259 t...@macports.org 145 rai...@macports.org 121 b...@macports.org79 pe...@macports.org 40 ryandes...@macports.org 34 a...@macports.org20 s...@macports.org13 j...@macports.org 7 wsiegr...@apple.com 6 gwhit...@macports.org 5 and...@macports.org 4 pgu...@kallisys.net 3 n...@macports.org3 jerem...@macports.org 3 jbe...@macports.org 3 dl...@macports.org 2 si...@macports.org 1 m...@macports.org1 mcalh...@macports.org 1 j...@apple.com 1 erid...@macports.org1 and.dam...@macports.org 1 alaka...@macports.org 1 These would be my next questions to keep this discussion going and hopefully to get this repository project of the ground.. I should note at this point that there are a lot of bits and pieces of the functionality already around. See for example: http://trac.macports.org/wiki/MPAB http://github.com/febeling/portmill Note also that the images-and-archives branch created to work on http://trac.macports.org/ticket/19458 is probably where you would want to be working if you were to add code to download archives. Thanks for the insight Josh. About 25 base developers I see. Not that many, but enough to get the job done I'd say. Also good to see there are bits and pieces of useful code lying around. And if this idea was raised about 7 years ago we should be able to get something going by now. I saw a few other discussions started up and I will join them when I think I can contribute to them. I hope other base developers will do so too. Jasper ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
Sure. The question was always what package format to use. At first (~2002) we discussed dpkg, but abandoned because IIRC at the time Debian preferred Apple to not use it. We held out hope for apkg, a more advanced/suitable Apple Package Format, but that didn't materialize. We've discussed on and off a xar-based packaging format, but that, though a very nice idea, has still not happened. In the meantime, we implemented support for generating quite a few different package formats in base very early on -- dpkg, rpm, pkg/mpkg. If you install the dpkg or rpm ports, you can build packages from ports right now. Example: land...@max sudo port dpkg dict ... The Dictionary Server Protocol (DICT) is a TCP transaction based query/response protocol that allows a client to access dictionary definitions from a set of natural language dictionary databases. dict(1) is a client which can access DICT servers from the command line. . http://www.dict.org/ The same also works for 'rpm', and Apple 'pkg' and 'mpkg' targets. Someone just needs to invest the time in implementing automated building of all of the packages into a repository, ensuring that MacPorts meta-data is properly included, and you could provide an package (apt-get, yum, macports 'archive', ...) binary repository. If you look in base/portmgr/packaging, you'll actually find a number of scripts that do most of this: - dpkgall.tcl - mpkgall.tcl - packageall.tcl - rpmall.tcl With some pragmatic decisions about a packaging format, hardware on which to run builds (IIRC j...@apple has offered to donate this), and a bit of time, I'd bet a sufficiently motivated developer (admittedly, not me) could have a binary repository fairly operational within a couple weeks. Well, but who has the authority to choose the packaging format? And how many base developers does Mac Ports have at its disposal at the moment? These would be my next questions to keep this discussion going and hopefully to get this repository project of the ground.. -landonf ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On 2009-11-30 20:28, Jasper Frumau wrote: Well, but who has the authority to choose the packaging format? Whoever does the work, really. And how many base developers does Mac Ports have at its disposal at the moment? Hard question to answer meaningfully (beyond not a lot), but as a rough metric, here are the commit counts to trunk/base in the last year: j...@macports.org 259 t...@macports.org 145 rai...@macports.org 121 b...@macports.org 79 pe...@macports.org 40 ryandes...@macports.org 34 a...@macports.org 20 s...@macports.org 13 j...@macports.org 7 wsiegr...@apple.com 6 gwhit...@macports.org 5 and...@macports.org 4 pgu...@kallisys.net 3 n...@macports.org 3 jerem...@macports.org 3 jbe...@macports.org 3 dl...@macports.org 2 si...@macports.org 1 m...@macports.org 1 mcalh...@macports.org 1 j...@apple.com 1 erid...@macports.org1 and.dam...@macports.org 1 alaka...@macports.org 1 These would be my next questions to keep this discussion going and hopefully to get this repository project of the ground.. I should note at this point that there are a lot of bits and pieces of the functionality already around. See for example: http://trac.macports.org/wiki/MPAB http://github.com/febeling/portmill Note also that the images-and-archives branch created to work on http://trac.macports.org/ticket/19458 is probably where you would want to be working if you were to add code to download archives. - Josh ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages? / give Linux another try
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:54:55 -0800 Frank J. R. Hanstick tro...@comcast.net wrote: My current platform is a dualMPC-7448 (G4 model) which is still not a well supported cpu under Linux. Are you sure your system is still not well supported under Linux? I have been using Linux before I got my first (and current) iMac in 2004, and I almost exclusively used Linux on this system (Debian and Ubuntu) up until 2007. Then I bought Mac OS 10.5 for it. Mac OS 10.2, the system my iMac came with, had been inferior to Linux in many ways right from the start. But with Compiz (a compositing window manager) becoming part of every standard Linux setup I started to miss one more function in my system (apart from Adobe Flash and the sleep mode), so I thought Mac OS and MacPorts (or Fink) would do a better job than Linux with the basic nv display driver... which is not exactly true, unfortunately. Now for me Ubuntu has more up-to-date binary packages that just work, yet under Mac OS I have more display blink. So I'm trying to work with Mac OS, and cope with having to compile almost everything. But if you don't have an Nvidia graphics card (but ATI) the equation would solve differently. Anyway identical applications (VLC, claws-mail with many files in one directory, or digiKam) perform significantly better on Linux, on my iMac. As today's mail from Joshua shows, there are just not enough contributions to MacPorts to even think of regular binary releases - especially if we'd like to have them for two or three versions of MacOS (10.4 to 10.6), with all their different architectures (PPC, i386, AMD64...). If I'm not mistaken binaries need releases (like Ubuntu offers them twice a year), or at least the basic libraries must not change versions for a considerable time, so that installed programs depending on them don't break. Regards, Vlado ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages? / give Linux another try
On 2009-12-1 03:03, Vlado Plaga wrote: As today's mail from Joshua shows, there are just not enough contributions to MacPorts to even think of regular binary releases - especially if we'd like to have them for two or three versions of MacOS (10.4 to 10.6), with all their different architectures (PPC, i386, AMD64...). If I'm not mistaken binaries need releases (like Ubuntu offers them twice a year), or at least the basic libraries must not change versions for a considerable time, so that installed programs depending on them don't break. That's an orthogonal problem which affects source-based distributions as well. Gentoo solves it with revdep-rebuild, for example. Our solution so far has been simply to rev bump affected ports when needed. There's no reason binaries couldn't be updated whenever the ports they are built from are updated. (The fact that we don't have a stable branch for ports is yet another orthogonal issue...) - Josh ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
Citando Jasper Frumau : However, unless I am on a totally different page, you can make packages in MacPorts now. They seemed to work fine for me, on simple tests. I wonder why this is not popular or done then? If a port maintainer can make packages I would imagine - not an expert at all myself - I command could be introduced to install a package and choose the latest binary if need be. I also wonder. Maybe it is not so popular with the base developpers. The possibility of installing binary is present (and as always been in macports). The archive mode creates a tgz package of any port you install. Those tgz packages are the ones that get installed if they are found in the dedicated dir (/opt/local/var/macports/packages/linux/i386/ for me). However, there is no online repository (and for that matter, no trusted repository) of built macports packages. Also, the pkg targets have been improved recently I was told... The only missing code would be the fetching of those packages when the '-b' switch is used, no ? Best, Emmanuel ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On 2009-11-27 19:12, Emmanuel Hainry wrote: Citando Jasper Frumau : I wonder why this is not popular or done then? If a port maintainer can make packages I would imagine - not an expert at all myself - I command could be introduced to install a package and choose the latest binary if need be. I also wonder. Maybe it is not so popular with the base developpers. As far as I am aware, the base developers all think this would be a great idea. Feel free to implement it. http://trac.macports.org/wiki/FAQ#whynotxyz The only missing code would be the fetching of those packages when the '-b' switch is used, no ? Also the code to build and/or manage submissions of all the archives. (And the fetching isn't necessarily as simple as it sounds.) - Josh ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
I also wonder. Maybe it is not so popular with the base developpers. As far as I am aware, the base developers all think this would be a great idea. Feel free to implement it. http://trac.macports.org/wiki/FAQ#whynotxyz The only missing code would be the fetching of those packages when the '-b' switch is used, no ? Also the code to build and/or manage submissions of all the archives. (And the fetching isn't necessarily as simple as it sounds.) Apparently it is pretty hard as people have wanted this for years. As Ryan mentioned: *We would love this as well, and have wanted it for years. So far, nobody has contributed the necessary code to make it happen.* I am not a base developer so for me this is hard to judge or comprehend, but is there not any open source code available used by other package managers or repositories that can be used to start a Mac Ports package manager project? How many base developers does Mac Ports have a the moment that have spare time to invest into this is another question of course. Good developers tend to be busy people and very popular. I am definitely available for the documentation creation if a repository / package project gets of the ground as that will be something I can take care of ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On Nov 27, 2009, at 2:05 AM, Jasper Frumau wrote: I am not a base developer so for me this is hard to judge or comprehend, but is there not any open source code available used by other package managers or repositories that can be used to start a Mac Ports package manager project? Sure. The question was always what package format to use. At first (~2002) we discussed dpkg, but abandoned because IIRC at the time Debian preferred Apple to not use it. We held out hope for apkg, a more advanced/suitable Apple Package Format, but that didn't materialize. We've discussed on and off a xar-based packaging format, but that, though a very nice idea, has still not happened. In the meantime, we implemented support for generating quite a few different package formats in base very early on -- dpkg, rpm, pkg/mpkg. If you install the dpkg or rpm ports, you can build packages from ports right now. Example: land...@max sudo port dpkg dict ... --- Creating dpkg for dict-1.9.7 land...@max dpkg --info `port dir dict`/work/*.deb new debian package, version 2.0. size 69930 bytes: control archive= 434 bytes. 467 bytes,10 lines control Package: dict Architecture: darwin-i386 Version: 1.9.7-1 Section: textproc Maintainer: landonf Installed-Size: 201 Description: Dictionary Server Protocol (RFC2229) client The Dictionary Server Protocol (DICT) is a TCP transaction based query/response protocol that allows a client to access dictionary definitions from a set of natural language dictionary databases. dict(1) is a client which can access DICT servers from the command line. . http://www.dict.org/ The same also works for 'rpm', and Apple 'pkg' and 'mpkg' targets. Someone just needs to invest the time in implementing automated building of all of the packages into a repository, ensuring that MacPorts meta-data is properly included, and you could provide an package (apt-get, yum, macports 'archive', ...) binary repository. If you look in base/portmgr/packaging, you'll actually find a number of scripts that do most of this: - dpkgall.tcl - mpkgall.tcl - packageall.tcl - rpmall.tcl With some pragmatic decisions about a packaging format, hardware on which to run builds (IIRC j...@apple has offered to donate this), and a bit of time, I'd bet a sufficiently motivated developer (admittedly, not me) could have a binary repository fairly operational within a couple weeks. -landonf ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
Hello, One reason I chose MacPorts over Fink was that there were more ports available. That may or may not be true now because I have not used Fink in a while. Unless Fink had changed, there were still a lot of ports that came with assembly required. Not all ports came as packages. I am not familiar with how many different cpu's Linux is built for, so I cannot comment on that. My current platform is a dual MPC-7448 (G4 model) which is still not a well supported cpu under Linux. I will probably continue using a G4 system for a while because I prefer the cpu (I do not need the extended precision of a G5). I prefer MacPorts over doing it myself because someone greatly appreciated ensured that all the dependencies were taken care of beforehand. I spent many hours having to figure out what dependencies were required for what ports and what version of a particular dependency was required. MacPorts is a great time saver there. A feature in Fink that I liked was the notification of what dependencies were being loaded before hand which gave an indication of how long the installation would be. I do not like the fact that MacPorts does nothing to indicate that it is working an installation. I would prefer to have little dots or the title of the current module appear in the terminal window to alleviate the boredom and give a notation of progress (I do not like the repeated compilation lines from a non-MacPorts installation because it eats up my history space). Nothing is ever perfect and each has good and bad features. On Nov 26, 2009, at 3:29 AM, Benjamin Dahl - p...@bennyd.de wrote: This could be truly a problem, but I think it would be the way for either better usibility and better success of macports in the future, because easy to use package managers with a friendly GUI are imho one reason why the latest Linux-Distibutions earn more and more attention also with the non-advanced users. I think the problem is, that one would rather like installing and uninstalling packages quickly than waiting while the computer needs ages to compile the stuff everytime itself, but knowing others don't have to care about three versions of a package. I mean, why isn't that a problem with fink or debian or what else dist? Is it just a question of server recources? [b] Am 26.11.09 03:17 schrieb Frank J. R. Hanstick: Hello, Wouldn't the problem be how many different packages would be on hand for different systems and how long each of the packages would need to be maintained? On Nov 25, 2009, at 2:22 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote: On Nov 25, 2009, at 04:09, Benjamin Dahl wrote: I'm using macports for a while, but what I haven't understood yet is, why macports everytime needs to compile the packages instead of installing prebuild ones. I would love if it did it like fink or like apt on ubuntu. Would this be possible for the future? We would love this as well, and have wanted it for years. So far, nobody has contributed the necessary code to make it happen. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users Frank J. R. Hanstick tro...@comcast.net ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users -- Dipl.-Des. Benjamin Dahl Trierer Str. 75 99423 Weimar Germany Phone: +49 (3643) 251130 Mobile: +49 (176) 21300553 Email: p...@bennyd.de benjamin.d...@gestaltung.uni-weimar.de Web:http://www.bennyd.de/ Finished studies in »Visual Communications« at Bauhaus University Weimar, Germany Frank J. R. Hanstick tro...@comcast.net ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On Nov 26, 2009, at 5:54 AM, Frank J. R. Hanstick wrote: One reason I chose MacPorts over Fink was that there were more ports available. That may or may not be true now because I have not used Fink in a while. I think it has always been the opposite, I could be wrong. But the best that I can remember, Fink has always outnumbered MacPorts on volume of packages. 10270 today in Fink, versus 6378 today in MacPorts. My experience though, is that number is misleading, in that the large majority of MacPorts Portfiles work, whereas I always found the large majority of packages in Fink did not work, or were not what I was looking for. Unless Fink had changed, there were still a lot of ports that came with assembly required. Not all ports came as packages. Correct. I would not even know how you would go about making something like a php5 package. Others have, the Entropy guy has done great work there. Though if you spend any time on his forums, it is nothing but a request festival for addition of this or that module. I suspect a lot of other software is not this way, and one universal binary in package format would suffice. However, unless I am on a totally different page, you can make packages in MacPorts now. They seemed to work fine for me, on simple tests. I was able to make an Apple like installer, that installed and put the app where it needed to go. I find it nice in some respects to know that it builds on my system, and does so clean. You do not always get that with pre-built software. It appears to work, and works well for some time, and you run into some edge case where it breaks. While I sit here and knock on wood, that largely does not happen with building it on your own, or with the aid of a compile manager like Mac Ports, as you must work out the errors or it is not usable at all. I prefer MacPorts over doing it myself because someone greatly appreciated ensured that all the dependencies were taken care of beforehand. I spent many hours having to figure out what dependencies were required for what ports and what version of a particular dependency was required. MacPorts is a great time saver there. Could not agree more. A feature in Fink that I liked was the notification of what dependencies were being loaded before hand which gave an indication of how long the installation would be. I do not like the fact that MacPorts does nothing to indicate that it is working an installation. I would prefer to have little dots or the title of the current module appear in the terminal window to alleviate the boredom and give a notation of progress (I do not like the repeated compilation lines from a non-MacPorts installation because it eats up my history space). Nothing is ever perfect and each has good and bad features. There is `sudo port -d install portname` which will give you a lot more data to let you know what is going on. I do tend to agree, some form of status update between a plain port install and a -d based one would be nice. -d is just too much data most of the time. You can pepper your Porfile with ui messages, but those are only going to show up in each phase of the Portfile as it progresses. I believe this is something that has to go into the core of MacPorts, where there was a timer of some form, and it would keep track of every 15 seconds or so, and say working on ( last thing that was just asked to be done... ) Since this type of functionality is not already in MacPorts, I can only estimate that it is a bit of a tough one to implement. I do know I have asked about interactive installations in the past, and was told those are not possible. This is, to a lesser degree, similar. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
I suspect a lot of other software is not this way, and one universal binary in package format would suffice. I agree and it would be nice to have one pre-made package of each port that could be installed using mac ports without the need of compiling. However, unless I am on a totally different page, you can make packages in MacPorts now. They seemed to work fine for me, on simple tests. I wonder why this is not popular or done then? If a port maintainer can make packages I would imagine - not an expert at all myself - I command could be introduced to install a package and choose the latest binary if need be. I was able to make an Apple like installer, that installed and put the app where it needed to go. I find it nice in some respects to know that it builds on my system, and does so clean. You do not always get that with pre-built software. Maybe not, but many Linux distributions work with package managers and do not seem to get into too much trouble. It appears to work, and works well for some time, and you run into some edge case where it breaks. While I sit here and knock on wood, that largely does not happen with building it on your own, or with the aid of a compile manager like Mac Ports, as you must work out the errors or it is not usable at all. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
On Nov 25, 2009, at 04:09, Benjamin Dahl wrote: I'm using macports for a while, but what I haven't understood yet is, why macports everytime needs to compile the packages instead of installing prebuild ones. I would love if it did it like fink or like apt on ubuntu. Would this be possible for the future? We would love this as well, and have wanted it for years. So far, nobody has contributed the necessary code to make it happen. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
Re: Why doesn't macports install prebuild packages?
Hello, Wouldn't the problem be how many different packages would be on hand for different systems and how long each of the packages would need to be maintained? On Nov 25, 2009, at 2:22 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote: On Nov 25, 2009, at 04:09, Benjamin Dahl wrote: I'm using macports for a while, but what I haven't understood yet is, why macports everytime needs to compile the packages instead of installing prebuild ones. I would love if it did it like fink or like apt on ubuntu. Would this be possible for the future? We would love this as well, and have wanted it for years. So far, nobody has contributed the necessary code to make it happen. ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users Frank J. R. Hanstick tro...@comcast.net ___ macports-users mailing list macports-users@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-users
