RE: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Simon Fogarty]

Is iBooks author not able to do this for you?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Monday, 30 October 2017 3:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books from 
folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into iTunes. 
The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books into Sonos or 
my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some chapters of a book 
appear before others, and it would be great if there was a way via an 
application to sort this mess out.
I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
avoid like the plague.
Any help with this would be appreciated.
/Krister

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How to sell your MacBook Pro with Touch Bar - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET How To - Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 5:00 AM
How to sell your MacBook Pro with Touch Bar - CNET
Touch Bar not doing it for you? No matter the reason, if you are ready to
move on from your MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, there's an extra step you need
to take before you sell it or pass it along to a worthy successor.
Before we get to the extra Touch Bar step, here's what you need to do to get
any MacBook ready for sale.
Step 1: Sign out of all accounts
The first step is to back up the files and data you want to keep, either by
moving them to iCloud (or your preferred cloud service) or an external hard
drive. With your important files safely offloaded, you can now begin the
process of removing all traces of you from your MacBook. Here's what you
need to do:
Sign out of iTunes
Open iTunes and go to Account > Authorizations > Deauthorize This Computer.
Sign out of iCloud
Go to System Preferences > iCloud and click the Sign Out button.
Sign out of iMessage
Open the Message app and go to Messages > Preferences and click the Accounts
tab. With your account selected on the left, click the Sign Out button on
the right.
Unpair Bluetooth devices
If your MacBook will be leaving your possession but not your premises --
maybe you're selling your MacBook to a roommate or passing it along to your
kid -- then you need to unpair any Bluetooth devices that you aren't
including in the deal. To do so, go to System Preferences > Bluetooth,
select a device you want to unpair, click the X button to the right of its
name and then click Remove.
Step 2: Clear data from the Touch Bar
Take a look at Step 6 of this Apple Support page on getting your Mac ready
to sell. It outlines how to "clear any information stored by the Touch Bar."
Does the Touch Bar store information that's separate from the hard drive?
Apple did not immediately respond to my request for comment, so I can only
surmise that the Touch Bar stores your Touch ID data. According to this
Apple Support page, your passcode and fingerprint data are stored in a
separate chip Apple calls the Secure Enclave. Perhaps it is this Secure
Enclave that you erasing to remove your Touch ID information stored by the
Touch Bar.
You can quickly remove any Touch ID fingerprints you registered on your
MacBook Pro by going to System Preferences > Touch ID and mousing over a
fingerprint profile and clicking the X button and then clicking Delete.
Apple Support, however, tells you to use a Terminal command while in
recovery mode to clear any data stored by the Touch Bar.
Here's what to do:
Shut down your MacBook Pro and then power it back in MacOS Recovery mode by
immediately holding down Command-R after hitting the power button. If you
see the MacOS Utilities window, then you have successfully entered MacOS
Recovery. Ignore the options in the MacOS Utilities window and instead click
Utilities in the menu bar and choose Terminal. Enter this command in
Terminal.
xartutil --erase-all
Hit Enter, type yes to confirm your intentions and then hit Enter again.
Quit Terminal and restart your MacBook per usual. You can check to see if
your Touch ID was, indeed, erased by going to System Preferences > Touch ID
and looking to see if your fingerprint profiles were erased.
Step 3: Erase and reinstall MacOS
After removing all traces of yourself so the next user of your MacBook Pro
can start with a fresh slate, you'll also want to erase your disk and
reinstall MacOS. To erase your disk, head back to MacOS Recovery and choose
Disk Utility from the utilities window. Next, select your device or volume
in the sidebar of Disk Utility and click the Erase tab. You should be able
to leave the three fields for Name, Format and Scheme as their default
selections before clicking Erase to erase your disk.
 Apple 
After your disk is erased, start up again in MacOS Recovery mode and this
time choose Reinstall MacOS from the utilities window. Select your disk then
click Install. Don't enter your information when your MacBook restarts to
the setup assistant. You can just shut it down and let the next owner enter
their information and set up the machine.
Now you're ready to sell your MacBook. If you plan on getting another Apple
computer, consider trading it in. Otherwise, follow our complete guide to
selling your MacBook.

Original Article at:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-sell-your-macbook-pro-with-touch-bar/#fta
g=CAD5457c2c


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RE: alternatives to Skype?

[Simon Fogarty]

Then look at zoom,

It's really nice to use.

And as for Microsoft messing things up,
 Well Notepad still works really well,can't say that about office or windows, 
or IE or mediaplayer yeah pretty much everything except I must admit their 
Powershell system which is very very good.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Monday, 30 October 2017 2:10 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: alternatives to Skype?

Hi Kawal,

I feel your pain.  I have to use Skype for Business at my day job, too, and I 
don't like it either.  I swear Microsoft just ruins everything they touch.

The problem with Face time is that it only works with other apple products.  I 
use Skype in my coaching business.  So I need a solution that isn't Apple 
limited.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>> wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>> happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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How to trade in your iPhone 8 for an iPhone X - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET How To - Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:48 PM
How to trade in your iPhone 8 for an iPhone X - CNET
Your iPhone 8 ($849.00 at Apple) is the latest and greatest iPhone right
now, but it won't be shortly when the iPhone X ($49.91 at Apple) is
released. Are feelings of buyer's remorse starting to creep in? You aren't
alone. iPhone 8 trade-ins are a thing. Here's what you need to know about
swapping out your iPhone 8 or iPhone 8 Plus ($945.00 at Amazon.com) for the
iPhone X.
You'll have to pay it off
If you purchased your iPhone 8 on an installment payment plan, then you will
need to pay off the balance before you can sell it. If you're in the iPhone
Upgrade Program, you can upgrade but will need to do a little legwork. 
Read the Terms & Conditions of the Upgrade Program and you'll notice that
the Early Upgrade Option states you can make advance payments to become
eligible six months after enrolling. That means iPhone 8 owners, who are
only a month or so into their upgrade program, would need to wait nearly
another five months before becoming upgrade eligible. 
That didn't seem right to me, so I called my local Apple Store and asked a
representative if I could upgrade my iPhone 8 as soon as the iPhone X is
released. The rep informed me that, yes, I could upgrade as soon as the
iPhone X hits, but I would need to call Citizens One (1-888-201-6306) to pay
off my loan. And after paying this sum to bring me up to the equivalent of
12 installment payments, I would be upgrade eligible and could trade in my
suddenly outdated iPhone 8 for the shiny and new iPhone X.
Back up, then erase
Before you box up your iPhone 8 and ship it off, you need to prepare it for
sale by removing your personal information. Here's what to do:
If you have an Apple Watch ($429.00 at Apple), unpair it from your iPhone.
Open the Watch app, tap the My Watch tab, tap your watch, tap the little "i"
button next to it and then tap Unpair Apple Watch.
Perform one last backup of your iPhone to iTunes or iCloud so you have a
recent profile to grab when setting up your new iPhone X.
Sign out of both iCloud and iTunes & App Store. Open Settings, tap your
profile at the top, scroll down to the bottom and tap Sign Out. 
Erase your personal information. Go to Settings > General > Reset > Erase
All Content and Settings. 
Gather the accessories
Since you've had the iPhone 8 for only a month or so, it shouldn't be too
difficult to gather all of the accessories that came with it. Here's the
list: 
.   EarPods with Lightning Connector
.   Lightning-to-USB Cable
.   Lightning-to-3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter
.   USB Power Adapter
 Apple 
Sell it -- but not through Apple
Because they are only a little more than a month old, neither the iPhone 8
nor the iPhone 8 Plus are listed on Apple's trade-up site. Without Apple as
a trade-in partner, you will need to look at a third-party trade-in site
such as Decluttr or Swappa (but not the popular Gazelle, which has yet to
add either iPhone 8 model). Or you could, of course, try your luck with eBay
or Craigslist. Hunt around for best deal. 
At the time of this writing, Decluttr will pay roughly $415-$430 (depending
on the carrier) for a 64GB iPhone 8, $450-$500 for a 256GB iPhone 8,
$515-$530 for a 64GB iPhone 8 Plus and $600-$630 for a 256GB iPhone 8 Plus.
Get ready for the iPhone X
Before you pull the trigger on an iPhone 8 sale, be sure you have an iPhone
X purchase lined up. Supplies will be severely limited at launch, but there
are ways to increase your odds of getting an iPhone X.

Original Article At:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-trade-in-your-iphone-8-for-an-iphone-x/#f
tag=CAD5457c2c



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Stuck key? Learn the right way to clean your MacBook's keyboard - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET How To - Friday, October 27, 2017 at 11:11 AM
Stuck key? Learn the right way to clean your MacBook's keyboard - CNET
When I traded my old MacBook Pro for a MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, it took
me a few days to get accustomed to typing on the shallow, butterfly
keyboard. A few months later, I was merrily typing away -- while wondering
how I ever enjoyed the feel of the mushy keys on my previous MacBook Pro --
when the space bar suddenly stopped working. Or, more specifically, when the
right side of the space bar stopped working. Unfortunately for me, that's
the side I use to, you know, add spaces between words.
I was able to fix my space bar issue, but I'm worried it'll return -- and
will do so the day after my warranty runs out next month. After all, I'm not
the only one with a faulty MacBook Pro space bar -- songs have been written
about it.
Compressed air for the win
When I my space bar stopped working, I discovered numerous tales of woe in
various forums about dirt, crumbs or even a speck of dust getting underneath
a key and interfering with the delicate butterfly mechanism. Since I use my
MacBook Pro primarily at my kitchen table and my local bagel shop (and
always opt for an everything bagel), I figured a poppy seed, a piece of
dried onion or garlic or a bread crumb got lodged underneath my space bar.
First, I first tried blowing underneath the spacer bar to dislodge any
trapped foreign matter. No dice. Next, I consulted Apple Support's guide on
how to clean the keyboard. After a trip to Staples for a can of compressed
air, I got to work. And, sure enough, it worked. Here's what I did:
.   I held my MacBook Pro at a nearly vertical angle -- Apple says 75
degrees is the magic number.
.   I grabbed my can of compressed air and sprayed all around the space
bar.
.   I then turned my MacBook Pro sideways -- keeping it at the nearly
vertical angle -- and sprayed some more air. I then turned it around so it
was facing sideways the other way and sprayed again.
 Apple 
After thoroughly spraying the space bar with air, I placed my MacBook Pro
back on my kitchen table and happily discovered that its space bar was again
fully operational. Since this first encounter with a dead -- or half-dead --
space bar, it has happened two more times, and each time a can of compressed
air revived it. But what if the time comes when compressed air doesn't do
the trick?
When air doesn't work
I called my local Apple Store and asked a technician for an estimate for the
repair cost I'm facing if I'm no longer under warranty and my space bar goes
kaput and stays that way. He told me that they would need to send it out for
repair and couldn't give me an estimate for the repairs. I also emailed
Apple, but it didn't immediately respond to my request for comment.
So, my advice to those typing on a MacBook model with a butterfly keyboard
-- the current MacBook Pro models and the 12-inch MacBook -- is to keep a
can of compressed air on hand. It did the trick for me. If the problem is
happening regularly, either switch from everything bagels to plain bagels or
visit your local Apple Store -- ideally before your warranty is up. 
And if you are already past your warranty, then be prepared to pay a sizable
repair bill. I've read that it's not as simple as replacing a single key but
that the entire keyboard or bottom half of the laptop may need to be
replaced. 
One last thing you might try before sending your MacBook out for repair is
to follow the method described in the top comment of this 9to5Mac article of
using your fingernail to scrape the metal edges of the keyboard deck below a
stuck key. Others have responded to this comment with profuse thanks saying
it worked for them. Basically, you are removing a build up of grime below
the key that is causing it to stick.
If you have a method for fixing a stuck or unresponsive MacBook key, please
share in the comments below. And if you've had your MacBook keyboard
repaired by Apple, please share that experience and the associated cost,
too.

Original Article At:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/stuck-key-learn-the-right-way-to-clean-your-macb
ooks-keyboard/#ftag=CAD5457c2c


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RE: alternatives to Skype?

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah we use zoom as our video conferencing system at work, it's very useable on 
 both the mac and iPhone,

  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 11:08 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: alternatives to Skype?

I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  Beats 
Skype all to hell in my opinion.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
> Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
> not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be. 
>>  
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>>> wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>>> happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 

Job going at apple

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Listers,

Just heard a news article about an iPhone engineer from apple who has just lost 
his job because of his teenage daughter  making a blog / Youtube video on the 
iPhone X.

Seemingly the kid has taken the video / blog down after posting the how it 
works video and then posted a very tearfull plead to apple to don't punish the 
father

Man they don't do things by half.
So folks take note of your NDA if your using betas or dev.

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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Maria Chapman]

HI.

will vlc not play m4b?

Maria

> On 30 Oct 2017, at 4:25 am, jeff `greene  wrote:
> 
> Hi Krister,
> As far as .m4b files go the answer is yes and no. The only thing I
> know of that will play them on the mac is itunes, and possibly
> quicktime. On windows s, windows media player will play them, although
> it will bitch at you the first few times you try it. Where do you want
> to play your audio books?
> As far as apps to join mp3's i'll look around and see what I can find.
> I use mp3 surgeon on windows and it works fine. On the amac I've
> useany audio joiner from the app store but its not reliable. Sometimes
> it joins mp3's very quickly and then the result doesn't play right.
> Other times it takes hours to do nne book, so I deleted it off my mac.
> I'll take a look around and get back to you about  mp3 joiners.Jeff
> 
> 
> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>> Can an .m4b file be played outside the Apple eco system? Also could you give
>> an example of a good app that combines many .mp3 files into one?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:43 skrev jeff `greene :
>>> 
>>> Hi Krister,
>>> There is an app I use called audio book binder. Its available in the
>>> app store. It does want to import your books into itunes but you can
>>> turn this off in the preferences. It takes a bunch of mp3's and turns
>>> them into 1 .m4b file. If you want to join together a bunch of mp3's
>>> into one mp3 there are apps in the mac app store that do that too.
>>> Hope this helps! Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
 Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
 from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book
 into
 iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books
 into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some
 chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there
 was
 a way via an application to sort this mess out.
 I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
 to
 avoid like the plague.
 Any help with this would be appreciated.
 /Krister
 
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RE: Update To: iOS 11.0.3 Reminders: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs!

[M. Taylor]

Hello Jessica,

In order to perform what is best described as a fresh install, you must use 
iTunes on a desktop computer.  

Essentially, you select to restore the phone and set it up as a new device.  

When the restore process begins, the phone is placed in a state where it can 
receive the iOS software from the computer via the USB/Lightning cable.

This, of course, is the broad strokes as the specifics may vary.

Mark 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Update To: iOS 11.0.3 Reminders: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs!

I didn’t know you could install IOs 11 or any version that matter, from 
scratch.  How do you go about doing that?
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 5:23 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> After reading the replies to my original thread on this subject, my 
> friend and I went to the Apple Store.
> 
> As you have probably guessed, based on the replies from the original 
> thread, I was unable to reproduce any of the VoiceOver Reminder app 
> bugs on any of the phones in the Apple Store.
> 
> In fact, strange as it may sound, the VoiceOver Reminder bugs appear 
> to be limited to her device, alone.
> 
> While there, I paid a visit to the Genius Bar, demonstrating the anomalies.
> They, too, were a bit baffled at the uniqueness of the problems.  
> 
> They suggested that we reset all of the settings on her phone ore 
> simply install iOS 11 from scratch.
> 
> So, there ends my saga of the Reminders app VoiceOver bugs.  
> 
> Thank you all for replying to my original post and I apologize for any 
> confusion I may have caused.
> 
> Mark
> 
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi ET,

Basically, you're correct.  Although in this case, the form fields in the pdf's 
were visible to apps like PDFPen Pro, and were usable by sighted users of the 
Preview app.  These same form fields were not accessible though to us as VO 
users.  So, in this case, whether I had a properly labelled form or not, I 
could not use Preview to work within the form itself other than to read textual 
information.  If I remember correctly, Preview would not even read the contents 
of the field after text had been entered using a different pdf app.  So, 
improvements were made in Preview with respect to its accessibility in one 
respect, but to the detriment of other aspects of it's usability from a VO 
prospective.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 29, 2017, at 17:15, E.T.  wrote:

Tim,
  Interesting topic. In essence, is it not true that accessibility ultimately 
is up to the document creator;s efforts, or lack thereof, therefore no PDF app 
can overcome the lack of accessibility?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 11:52 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi Mary,
> I also use PDFPen Pro for pdf's.  It is accessible, handles forms well, and 
> seems to read things in a more cohesive manner.  It's not a free pdf app 
> though.  Regarding reporting of the bug, I would suggest Apple Accessibility 
> for now since it primarily is an accessibility of Preview concern, not 
> necessarily a Preview app bug.
> Later...
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
> Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
> might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
> really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
> can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
> Mary
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
>> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
>> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
>> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is 
>> an issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt 
>> with.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
>> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
>> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would 
>> appear that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. 
>> That is unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of 
>> page 1, I want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and 
>> continue, such as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. 
>> Anyway, is there anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page 
>> with some text, I'm told that there are such and so many items, and I can't 
>> get a continuous read to go all the way through. In other words, this is as 
>> screwed up as it ever was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? 
>> I'm thinking about trying  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more 
>> about that app before I pay for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. 
>> I'm really not that demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have 
>> been able to do on windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a 
>> decent screen reader.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Anne,
Unfortunately yes.  My French is far from computer use worthy, smiles.
Kare



On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Anne Robertson wrote:


Hello Kare,

I’m really not sure how many default voices there are. Are you only talking 
about English?

Cheers,

Anne




On 29 Oct 2017, at 19:58, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Anne,
May I ask how many voices are default  in High Sierra?
I am in a position to buy just now with finding voice that is safe for me 
physically, a very important factor.
Cheers,
Kare



On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Anne Robertson wrote:


Hello,

Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
• Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
•Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
• Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.

Cheers,

Anne



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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[E.T.]

Tim,
   Interesting topic. In essence, is it not true that accessibility 
ultimately is up to the document creator;s efforts, or lack thereof, 
therefore no PDF app can overcome the lack of accessibility?


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 11:52 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi Mary,

I also use PDFPen Pro for pdf's.  It is accessible, handles forms well, and 
seems to read things in a more cohesive manner.  It's not a free pdf app 
though.  Regarding reporting of the bug, I would suggest Apple Accessibility 
for now since it primarily is an accessibility of Preview concern, not 
necessarily a Preview app bug.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:04, Mary Otten  wrote:

Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi Mary,

Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though where 
it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is an issue 
for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:

I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in preview 
and there is a document group containing three pages. It would appear that you 
have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. That is unnecessary in 
my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of page 1, I want to read 
straight through, or have the option to stop and continue, such as if there is 
a table, which in this case there isn't. Anyway, is there anyway to actually 
get this thing to read? Even on a page with some text, I'm told that there are 
such and so many items, and I can't get a continuous read to go all the way 
through. In other words, this is as screwed up as it ever was. What am I 
missing? Where are the improvements? I'm thinking about trying  skim. But I 
would like to know a little bit more about that app before I pay for it and 
find it doesn't meet my needs either. I'm really not that demanding. I just 
want to be able to do what you have been able to do on windows for probably a 
decade now with PDF files in a decent screen reader.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Thank you, David.  This is very helpful.
Best,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 4:09 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Yes, and even better, they have call-in phone numbers in many countries. All 
> call-in numbers take one to the sam conference system. Their free system only 
> permits conferences up to one hour in length, and a maximum of 15 attendees. 
> Their paid service permits unlimited length conferences, and the lowest paid 
> service permits up to 50 attendees (if memory serves). They are not very 
> expensive, and a paid account lasts 30 days per pay period (as of a year 
> ago). I believe they also have annual plans.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 23:13, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Ray,
>> 
>> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
>> 
>> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
 Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
 keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
 organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
 organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom 
 is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
> be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>> had called a wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>> not been happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Mary Otten]

Well, in my continuing attempt to find something that works on the Mac, I just 
tried the Adobe acrobat DC or something like that. It had some reasonably 
positive reviews on Apple Vis, at least as far as being able to read 
continuously is concerned. Unfortunately, the PDF documents I tried it on, no 
go. I set the preferences for screen readers that are recommended. I loaded a 
38 page document into the reader, found the pain which containeded  the 
document, somehow found the table of contents, which I'm not quite sure how, 
because at first it didn't show up. Click on an item in the table of contents. 
And then I tried to read continuously with voiceover plus a period and it 
didn't work. I interacted twice, once just with the content and then again 
where it said in text. And I just can't get that to re-continuously either. 
This is extremely frustrating. Surely there is a reader out there with which 
you can actually use voiceover. This should be so basic. I mean just to simply 
read a document.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> I also use PDFPen Pro for pdf's.  It is accessible, handles forms well, and 
> seems to read things in a more cohesive manner.  It's not a free pdf app 
> though.  Regarding reporting of the bug, I would suggest Apple Accessibility 
> for now since it primarily is an accessibility of Preview concern, not 
> necessarily a Preview app bug.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
> Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
> might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
> really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
> can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
>> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
>> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
>> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is 
>> an issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt 
>> with.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
>> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
>> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would 
>> appear that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. 
>> That is unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of 
>> page 1, I want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and 
>> continue, such as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. 
>> Anyway, is there anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page 
>> with some text, I'm told that there are such and so many items, and I can't 
>> get a continuous read to go all the way through. In other words, this is as 
>> screwed up as it ever was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? 
>> I'm thinking about trying  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more 
>> about that app before I pay for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. 
>> I'm really not that demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have 
>> been able to do on windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a 
>> decent screen reader.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[David Chittenden]

I would be very surprised if Zoom was not available in Sweden. My understanding 
is it is available everywhere. If the app is not available. try zoom on the 
internet. I will need to check the proper extension for the web address.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 23:59, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> 
> I myself use Whatsapp for almost all my phoning and messaging needs. I don’t 
> know if you can call outside Whatsapp though. Unfortunately it seems Zoom 
> isn’t available here in Sweden for some reasson.
> I would recommend Viber but i have gotten some spams there so i’m not sure i 
> want to have to do with them at all.
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 14:09 skrev Donna Goodin :
>> 
>> Hi Kawal,
>> 
>> I feel your pain.  I have to use Skype for Business at my day job, too, and 
>> I don't like it either.  I swear Microsoft just ruins everything they touch.
>> 
>> The problem with Face time is that it only works with other apple products.  
>> I use Skype in my coaching business.  So I need a solution that isn't Apple 
>> limited.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna.
>>> 
>>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
>>> be.  
>>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
 On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi, all,
 
 I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
 to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think 
 that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had 
 called a wrong number.
 
 That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it. 
  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
 about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
 happy with the call quality.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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>> The 

Re: Same page links in IOS mail

[Jonathan Cohn]

What is really interesting about this is apparently for sighted people it never 
works with Apple products. I remember reading a tidbits article about a year 
ago complaining about this.

Jonathan

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:34 AM, Paul Hopewell  > wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> I am running IOS 11.0.3 on my iPhone 5S. I subscribe to the digest format for 
> macvisionaries. This starts by a list of the titles of each post and an 
> indication of the number of updates for that post. Each title is a same page 
> link to more detail later in the digest Email. 
> 
> Sometimes I can double tap on one of the above same page links and I am taken 
> to the more detail for that post. However often double tapping on a same page 
> link does nothing. I have tried using links and words in the rota to be sure 
> that the VO cursor is correctly positioned on the same page link but alas 
> this does not help. 
> 
> Do others have this problem? Is there a way round the problem? 
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Paul Hopewell 
> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[David Chittenden]

Yes, Zoom allows screen sharing.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 23:54, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> I, too, must admit to liking Skype less and less.  I use FaceTime quite a lot 
> when speaking with other Apple users and WhatsApp when talking to anyone else.
> 
> Another app that I use on a weekly basis is Appear.in . It allows you to do 
> screensharing and up to eight people at a time can be in a private chat room. 
> The app can be used for free, but if you buy their premium package (which I 
> have not) you get more bandwidth and probably other options.  One advantage 
> one has with appear.in is that you don’t need any special app to use it. It 
> works just by using your Internet browser’s capabilities.
> 
> I have a question about Zoom: Most of the people I work with are sighted.  
> Does Zoom allow you to do screen sharing and share PowerPoint presentations 
> in real-time?
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> Mike
>
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 14:13, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Ray,
>> 
>> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
>> 
>> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
 Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
 keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
 organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
 organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom 
 is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
> be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>> had called a wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>> not been happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[David Chittenden]

Yes, and even better, they have call-in phone numbers in many countries. All 
call-in numbers take one to the sam conference system. Their free system only 
permits conferences up to one hour in length, and a maximum of 15 attendees. 
Their paid service permits unlimited length conferences, and the lowest paid 
service permits up to 50 attendees (if memory serves). They are not very 
expensive, and a paid account lasts 30 days per pay period (as of a year ago). 
I believe they also have annual plans.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 23:13, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Ray,
> 
> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
> 
> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
>>> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which 
>>> do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Donna.
 
 I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
 be.  
 For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
> had called a wrong number.
> 
> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I 
> know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not 
> been happy with the call quality.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
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> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Yes, Krister, that is it.  Glad you guys have it over there.
Cheers
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Stop the press!!! I’ve actually found it in the Swedish app store. It says 
> something like ”zoom cloud meetings and ” something else, i hope that is it 
> because it had quite many features by the looks of it.
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:44 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>> 
>> Hi!
>> No i haven’t heard of that one.
>> So this is for our friends at the other side of the pond.
>> But hangouts can do phone calls from what i know.
>> But i am not sure how accessible it is.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>>> 
>>> As i say, and maybe Anders agrees, Zoom doesn’t seem to be available here 
>>> unless i search with the wrong search term. What am i looking for exactly?
>>> /Krister
>>> 
>>> 
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:31 skrev Anders Holmberg :
 
 Hi!
 What about hangouts?
 It works on android and Ios at least.
 /A
 
> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
> keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
> organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
> organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, 
> Zoom is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature 
> set.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
>> be.  
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>>> had called a wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>>> not been happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

When I downloaded Zoom, I just searched under Zoom in the app store, so if it 
were available, you would probably have found it.  

I haven't used Hangouts much, maybe that's another option I should take a look 
at.  I've spent the better part of the day trying to create a custom Voicemail 
greeting in Skype, including enlisting my sighted husband's help, with no 
success.  I can't even imagine what' those idiots at Microsoft are thinking.
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> No i haven’t heard of that one.
> So this is for our friends at the other side of the pond.
> But hangouts can do phone calls from what i know.
> But i am not sure how accessible it is.
> /A
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>> 
>> As i say, and maybe Anders agrees, Zoom doesn’t seem to be available here 
>> unless i search with the wrong search term. What am i looking for exactly?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:31 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> What about hangouts?
>>> It works on android and Ios at least.
>>> /A
>>> 
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
 
 Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
 Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
 keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
 organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
 organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom 
 is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
> be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>> had called a wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>> not been happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

['Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for the tip.i bet it works every time

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:18 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> that's cool.  I didn't know you could do that.  Thanks, Anne.
> Donna
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
>> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
>> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
>> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[jeff `greene]

Hi Krister,
I think I've got it! There's an app in the mac app store called mp3
cutter joiner for $2.99. Looks like it got good reviews. It also looks
like the app is updated regularly!
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> Ok, it would be pretty crappy if you bought the app for 50 swedish crowns
> only to find out that you *had* to put your readily built books into iTunes
> and iTunes alone.
>
>
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:47 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>
>> Hi!
>> I think you can skip this step.
>> So you can build books and have the app not importing things to Itunes.
>> /A
>>
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:35 skrev Krister Ekstrom
>>> :
>>>
>>> No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the
>>> description in the app store it seems you could only place readymade
>>> audio books into iTunes which i don’t want.
>>> /Krister
>>>
>>>
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :

 Hi!
 Audiobook builder is the one you want.
 /A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom
> :
>
> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio
> books from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the
> book into iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load
> audio books into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so
> that some chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be
> great if there was a way via an application to sort this mess out.
> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
> to avoid like the plague.
> Any help with this would be appreciated.
> /Krister
>
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Ok, it would be pretty crappy if you bought the app for 50 swedish crowns only 
to find out that you *had* to put your readily built books into iTunes and 
iTunes alone.


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:47 skrev Anders Holmberg :
> 
> Hi!
> I think you can skip this step.
> So you can build books and have the app not importing things to Itunes.
> /A
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:35 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>> 
>> No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the 
>> description in the app store it seems you could only place readymade audio 
>> books into iTunes which i don’t want.
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Audiobook builder is the one you want.
>>> /A
>>> 
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
 
 Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books 
 from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book 
 into iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio 
 books into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some 
 chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there 
 was a way via an application to sort this mess out.
 I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
 avoid like the plague.
 Any help with this would be appreciated.
 /Krister
 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Stop the press!!! I’ve actually found it in the Swedish app store. It says 
something like ”zoom cloud meetings and ” something else, i hope that is it 
because it had quite many features by the looks of it.
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:44 skrev Anders Holmberg :
> 
> Hi!
> No i haven’t heard of that one.
> So this is for our friends at the other side of the pond.
> But hangouts can do phone calls from what i know.
> But i am not sure how accessible it is.
> /A
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>> 
>> As i say, and maybe Anders agrees, Zoom doesn’t seem to be available here 
>> unless i search with the wrong search term. What am i looking for exactly?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:31 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> What about hangouts?
>>> It works on android and Ios at least.
>>> /A
>>> 
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
 
 Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
 Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
 keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
 organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
 organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom 
 is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
> be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>> had called a wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>> not been happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I think you can skip this step.
So you can build books and have the app not importing things to Itunes.
/A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:35 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
> 
> No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the 
> description in the app store it seems you could only place readymade audio 
> books into iTunes which i don’t want.
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Audiobook builder is the one you want.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>>> 
>>> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books 
>>> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into 
>>> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books 
>>> into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some 
>>> chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there was 
>>> a way via an application to sort this mess out.
>>> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
>>> avoid like the plague.
>>> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>>> /Krister
>>> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
It does not work here either.
/A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:18 skrev Donna Goodin :
> 
> that's cool.  I didn't know you could do that.  Thanks, Anne.
> Donna
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
>> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
>> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
>> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
No i haven’t heard of that one.
So this is for our friends at the other side of the pond.
But hangouts can do phone calls from what i know.
But i am not sure how accessible it is.
/A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
> 
> As i say, and maybe Anders agrees, Zoom doesn’t seem to be available here 
> unless i search with the wrong search term. What am i looking for exactly?
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:31 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>> 
>> Hi!
>> What about hangouts?
>> It works on android and Ios at least.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
>>> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which 
>>> do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Donna.
 
 I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
 be.  
 For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
> had called a wrong number.
> 
> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I 
> know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not 
> been happy with the call quality.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[John Panarese]

   Audio Book Builder is the one I use. It’s very accessible. I believe it’s on 
the Mac App Store.


> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:39 PM, jeff `greene  wrote:
> 
> Hi Krister
> Sonos won't play .m4b, I've tried it at home. Not sure about the
> humanware player. I'll start looking for mp3 joiner's for the mac and
> get back to you.
> Jeff
> 
> 
> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>> No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the
>> description in the app store it seems you could only place readymade audio
>> books into iTunes which i don’t want.
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Audiobook builder is the one you want.
>>> /A
>>> 
 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom
 :
 
 Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
 from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book
 into iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio
 books into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that
 some chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if
 there was a way via an application to sort this mess out.
 I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
 to avoid like the plague.
 Any help with this would be appreciated.
 /Krister
 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[jeff `greene]

Hi Krister
Sonos won't play .m4b, I've tried it at home. Not sure about the
humanware player. I'll start looking for mp3 joiner's for the mac and
get back to you.
Jeff


On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the
> description in the app store it seems you could only place readymade audio
> books into iTunes which i don’t want.
> /Krister
>
>
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>>
>> Hi!
>> Audiobook builder is the one you want.
>> /A
>>
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom
>>> :
>>>
>>> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
>>> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book
>>> into iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio
>>> books into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that
>>> some chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if
>>> there was a way via an application to sort this mess out.
>>> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
>>> to avoid like the plague.
>>> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>>> /Krister
>>>
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Krister Ekstrom]

No it isn’t unless you can make it not import into iTunes. From the description 
in the app store it seems you could only place readymade audio books into 
iTunes which i don’t want.
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 20:22 skrev Anders Holmberg :
> 
> Hi!
> Audiobook builder is the one you want.
> /A
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
>> 
>> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books 
>> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into 
>> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books 
>> into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some 
>> chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there was 
>> a way via an application to sort this mess out.
>> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
>> avoid like the plague.
>> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>> /Krister
>> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Kare,

I’m really not sure how many default voices there are. Are you only talking 
about English?

Cheers,

Anne



> On 29 Oct 2017, at 19:58, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Anne,
> May I ask how many voices are default  in High Sierra?
> I am in a position to buy just now with finding voice that is safe for me 
> physically, a very important factor.
> Cheers,
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Anne Robertson wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
>> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
>> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
>> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Shawn,

OK, it only seems to work if you create a shortcut. The command has a strange 
name and I only have it in French, but it’s something like selection voice 
guide. It’s quite far down in the General category, below the Item Chooser.
I set Option-v for Voice. You also have to press Delete to remove the previous 
letters.
On the whole, it’s horrible.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 29 Oct 2017, at 19:52, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hey Anne. That doesn't work here. When I let go of the shift key, the menu 
> disappears. Sometimes it sticks but not all the time. When you get lucky and 
> the menu sticks, is that when you do that trick?
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
>> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
>> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
>> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Audiobook builder is the one you want.
/A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:13 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
> 
> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books from 
> folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into 
> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books into 
> Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some chapters of a 
> book appear before others, and it would be great if there was a way via an 
> application to sort this mess out.
> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
> avoid like the plague.
> Any help with this would be appreciated.
> /Krister
> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Donna Goodin]

that's cool.  I didn't know you could do that.  Thanks, Anne.
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Krister Ekstrom]

Confirmed here too, the menu does not stick. Maybe there’s a way of locking it 
but i don’t know it.
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:52 skrev Shawn Krasniuk :
> 
> Hey Anne. That doesn't work here. When I let go of the shift key, the menu 
> disappears. Sometimes it sticks but not all the time. When you get lucky and 
> the menu sticks, is that when you do that trick?
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
>> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
>> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
>> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Krister Ekstrom]

As i say, and maybe Anders agrees, Zoom doesn’t seem to be available here 
unless i search with the wrong search term. What am i looking for exactly?
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 19:31 skrev Anders Holmberg :
> 
> Hi!
> What about hangouts?
> It works on android and Ios at least.
> /A
> 
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
>> Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
>> not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna.
>>> 
>>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
>>> be.  
>>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
 On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi, all,
 
 I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
 to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think 
 that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had 
 called a wrong number.
 
 That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it. 
  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
 about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
 happy with the call quality.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Mary Otten]

Hi Tim,
I don't mind paying for apps. Of course, I would like the free preview app to 
do what I want, smile. And form filling is not a high priority for me at this 
point, especially since form creation is often the issue, rather than just 
having the actual edit field technically accessible but without a proper label. 
Have you ever used the skim app? Again, it's not free. I don't mind paying. But 
before I do so, I would sort of like to know if it's actually going to do what 
I want.
.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> I also use PDFPen Pro for pdf's.  It is accessible, handles forms well, and 
> seems to read things in a more cohesive manner.  It's not a free pdf app 
> though.  Regarding reporting of the bug, I would suggest Apple Accessibility 
> for now since it primarily is an accessibility of Preview concern, not 
> necessarily a Preview app bug.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
> Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
> might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
> really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
> can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
>> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
>> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
>> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is 
>> an issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt 
>> with.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
>> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
>> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would 
>> appear that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. 
>> That is unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of 
>> page 1, I want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and 
>> continue, such as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. 
>> Anyway, is there anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page 
>> with some text, I'm told that there are such and so many items, and I can't 
>> get a continuous read to go all the way through. In other words, this is as 
>> screwed up as it ever was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? 
>> I'm thinking about trying  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more 
>> about that app before I pay for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. 
>> I'm really not that demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have 
>> been able to do on windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a 
>> decent screen reader.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> can reach Cara 

Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?

[Mary Otten]

Hi Sandy,
The PDF files I am talking about are those that are downloads, housed somewhere 
such as an Amazon cloud services. So when you go to a link for PDF, you get 
taken to the cloud services, and the file does show up in the web browser, and 
also offers you a bunch of sharing options, including by email or iBooks or 
Voice Dream reader or Kindle depending on what you have on your device.  
Navigation of such file is not very good in my experience. That is with in the 
browser. Sometimes the text is skipped over. There doesn't seem to be a way to 
move around within these files proficiently for accurately. This could've 
changed with the new iOS 11. And of course, forget tables. Or such has been my 
experience. I don't know about a file such as on a website, when you click on 
the link and it is supposed to load with in the browser, rather than opening a 
new tab in storage location, such as Amazon cloud services.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:32 AM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
> 
> Mary, I didn’t know that you could open PDFs in safari...
> With that new file application there ought to be w workaround , if someone 
> tell me how it’s done i will certainly try it 
> 
> 
> Sandie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 18.28, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I have not tried sharing this particular PDF to iBooks. I certainly have 
>> tried PDFs on iBooks in the past, lots of them, with less than ideal results 
>> in terms of navigability. That was on and I device. The last time I tried 
>> iBooks, not even a PDF file, just iBooks with books I have bought on a Mac, 
>> I really had a difficult time with it, much more so than on the eye device. 
>> So long answer but no I haven't try this particular file. I want to read 
>> continuously, and I want to be able to access links and tables. Are you 
>> suggesting that there are improvements in PDF reading on iBooks for either 
>> the Mac or iOS?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:43 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you tried sharing the PDF to iBooks?
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 29 Oct 2017, at 07:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi Sandy,
 Well, I have had very bad luck with PDF files in iBooks on my phone or my 
 iPad. And I've had bad luck getting to grips with iBooks on the Mac at 
 all. But anyway back to the iPad. Because I haven't had a lot of luck with 
 PDFs in general, I haven't tried tables in iBooks within a PDF file of 
 coarse. PDFs can open within the Mail app. I was kind of hoping that 
 either within Safari or within the Mail app, that reading of PDFs would 
 have been improved.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 1:00 PM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary, let me check, i think some of my aviation books have tables in 
> them...note i read them in iBooks, so not sure if it that is what you are 
> after?
> 
> 
> Sandie
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 20.53, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sandy,
>> Regarding your iPad, how about PDF files. They're supposed to be 
>> improvements in iOS 11. I haven't upgraded my phone there, because their 
>> issues I don't want to deal with. And I'm not sure that my older iPad 
>> mini 2 is exactly a fair test, because it is really pretty slow. I'm 
>> interested in navigating within PDF files, reading tables etc. The Mac 
>> is supposed to have improved on that score as well, but that would be a 
>> different thread.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:39 AM, sandi sørensen  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, lets turn the conversation back on track.
>>> iPad or  with IOS 11 really takes care of most of my needs these days.
>>> Would i wanna use it for a long read? Yes,
>>> How about browsing.
>>> Works okay.
>>> Also works for documents, and mails. And medical documentation, that i 
>>> need to write , sometimes.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 28 Oct 2017, at 07.29, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 Hi Mary,
 Yeah I get that busy busy etc on a mac mini with i7 quad core 2.6 GHz 
 processor and 16 gb ram,
  
 Don’t see why that busy issue happens when it shouldn’t/
  
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:44 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: 

Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Karen Lewellen]

Anne,
May I ask how many voices are default  in High Sierra?
I am in a position to buy just now with finding voice that is safe for me 
physically, a very important factor.

Cheers,
Kare



On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Anne Robertson wrote:


Hello,

Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
• Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
•Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
• Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.

Cheers,

Anne



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Re: Switching voices in High Sierra

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hey Anne. That doesn't work here. When I let go of the shift key, the menu 
disappears. Sometimes it sticks but not all the time. When you get lucky and 
the menu sticks, is that when you do that trick?

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
> • Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
> •Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
> • Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Mary,

I also use PDFPen Pro for pdf's.  It is accessible, handles forms well, and 
seems to read things in a more cohesive manner.  It's not a free pdf app 
though.  Regarding reporting of the bug, I would suggest Apple Accessibility 
for now since it primarily is an accessibility of Preview concern, not 
necessarily a Preview app bug.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:04, Mary Otten  wrote:

Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is an 
> issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt with.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would appear 
> that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. That is 
> unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of page 1, I 
> want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and continue, such 
> as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. Anyway, is there 
> anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page with some text, I'm 
> told that there are such and so many items, and I can't get a continuous read 
> to go all the way through. In other words, this is as screwed up as it ever 
> was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? I'm thinking about trying 
>  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more about that app before I pay 
> for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. I'm really not that 
> demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have been able to do on 
> windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a decent screen reader.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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If you have any questions or concerns 

Switching voices in High Sierra

[Anne Robertson]

Hello,

Here’s a slightly quicker way of switching voices in High Sierra.
• Press VO-Cmd-Shift-Down Arrow or set a shortcut to do this;
•Type the first few letters of the name of the desired voice;
• Press VO-Space and the new voice should start speaking.

Cheers,

Anne



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Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?

[sandi sørensen]

Mary, I didn’t know that you could open PDFs in safari...
With that new file application there ought to be w workaround , if someone tell 
me how it’s done i will certainly try it 


Sandie





Sent from my iPad

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 18.28, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I have not tried sharing this particular PDF to iBooks. I certainly have 
> tried PDFs on iBooks in the past, lots of them, with less than ideal results 
> in terms of navigability. That was on and I device. The last time I tried 
> iBooks, not even a PDF file, just iBooks with books I have bought on a Mac, I 
> really had a difficult time with it, much more so than on the eye device. So 
> long answer but no I haven't try this particular file. I want to read 
> continuously, and I want to be able to access links and tables. Are you 
> suggesting that there are improvements in PDF reading on iBooks for either 
> the Mac or iOS?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:43 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Have you tried sharing the PDF to iBooks?
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 07:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Sandy,
>>> Well, I have had very bad luck with PDF files in iBooks on my phone or my 
>>> iPad. And I've had bad luck getting to grips with iBooks on the Mac at all. 
>>> But anyway back to the iPad. Because I haven't had a lot of luck with PDFs 
>>> in general, I haven't tried tables in iBooks within a PDF file of coarse. 
>>> PDFs can open within the Mail app. I was kind of hoping that either within 
>>> Safari or within the Mail app, that reading of PDFs would have been 
>>> improved.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 28, 2017, at 1:00 PM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
 
 Hi Mary, let me check, i think some of my aviation books have tables in 
 them...note i read them in iBooks, so not sure if it that is what you are 
 after?
 
 
 Sandie
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 20.53, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sandy,
> Regarding your iPad, how about PDF files. They're supposed to be 
> improvements in iOS 11. I haven't upgraded my phone there, because their 
> issues I don't want to deal with. And I'm not sure that my older iPad 
> mini 2 is exactly a fair test, because it is really pretty slow. I'm 
> interested in navigating within PDF files, reading tables etc. The Mac is 
> supposed to have improved on that score as well, but that would be a 
> different thread.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:39 AM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, lets turn the conversation back on track.
>> iPad or  with IOS 11 really takes care of most of my needs these days.
>> Would i wanna use it for a long read? Yes,
>> How about browsing.
>> Works okay.
>> Also works for documents, and mails. And medical documentation, that i 
>> need to write , sometimes.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 07.29, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> Yeah I get that busy busy etc on a mac mini with i7 quad core 2.6 GHz 
>>> processor and 16 gb ram,
>>>  
>>> Don’t see why that busy issue happens when it shouldn’t/
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:44 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?
>>>  
>>> Minipro would be great. But I sort of think the chances of that 
>>> resemble those of a snowball in a very hot place, if you know what I 
>>> mean. I would love to be wrong. Regarding the Mac being better, with my 
>>> Mac Mini having a full 16 GB of RAM, I'm bloody sick of busy, busy, 
>>> busy in apps like Safari and Mail. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have this 
>>> problem.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi mary,
>>>  
>>> Yeah good points and I can see how the iPad pro would be usefull for an 
>>> average user but not enough power for the power user, no networking or 
>>> disk utilities 
>>> No terminal,
>>> Etc,
>>>  
>>> But if your doing word processing and cloud based document mangement 
>>> then yeah a good tool.
>>>  
>>> Especially if your on the go in and out of meetings or travelling it
>>> S alot lighter  
>>>  
>>> But guess we’ll see what happens,
>>>  
>>> I 

Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What about hangouts?
It works on android and Ios at least.
/A

> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 09:41 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
> Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
> not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be. 
>>  
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>>> wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>>> happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Thanks, Karen.  This is definitely an interesting option.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> Indeed Zoom  provides phone dial in options,  there are numbers in both the 
> u.  s. and Canada.
> As others have said, I understand Zoom staff can be quite supportive.
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
> 
>> As a matter of fact yes it does.  Don’t remember it off hand but what 
>> happens is this.  The caller dials the phone number and punches in the 
>> meating ID you give them.  That’s all there is to it.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi David and Ray,
>>> 
>>> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  
 wrote:
 
 I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
 Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
 
 
 Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
 blind:
 
 Sincerely,
 
 The constantly barefooted Ray
 
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
> keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
> organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
> organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, 
> Zoom is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature 
> set.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
>> be.
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>>> had called a wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>>> not been happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Karen Lewellen]

Donna,
Indeed Zoom  provides phone dial in options,  there are numbers in both 
the u.  s. and Canada.

 As others have said, I understand Zoom staff can be quite supportive.
Karen



On Sun, 29 Oct 2017, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:


As a matter of fact yes it does.  Don’t remember it off hand but what happens 
is this.  The caller dials the phone number and punches in the meating ID you 
give them.  That’s all there is to it.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray


On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi David and Ray,

Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?

Thanks very much for the suggestion.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:

I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  Beats 
Skype all to hell in my opinion.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray


On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:

Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Hi Donna.

I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be.
For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.

On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi, all,

I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able to 
leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a wrong 
number.

That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know about 
GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been happy with 
the call quality.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Donna Goodin]

That's too bad about the localization issue.  Must be frustrating.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> I haven’t yet installed High Sierra on my own computer mainly because of the 
> language switching. I’ve put High Sierra on our teaching machine and it seems 
> that they think that the automatic language switching should be sufficient, 
> but of course it isn’t. It only seems to work in HTML and only when correctly 
> tagged.
> The only solution I can think of for now is to create an activity for each 
> language that you use. I haven’t tried this yet as the teaching machine is 
> normally only used in French.
> And that’s another thing. The localisation is getting shoddier with every new 
> macOS, at least in French.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 18:44, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I'm sure they are correct that more people will use the navigation as 
>> opposed to the language thing. But I use the language thing a lot between 
>> English and Russian, and now they've messed it up even to the point where 
>> the voices you use don't sit next to each other like they used to, even once 
>> you have mastered the multi finger smashed language setting. Smile.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
>>> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
>>> out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
 I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
 language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need 
 multiple languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they 
 changed it. Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing 
 to be able to switch easily among languages on the fly.
 Mary
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
> commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
> these days.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is 
>> just that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most 
>> everything on my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing 
>> pretty much all of the time.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Donna Goodin]

Yes, and I try to avoid it when at all possible.  That one at least kind of 
makes sense, though, because you wouldn't want someone to do it by accident.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Hmmm. Have you ever done a PRAM reset?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/29/2017 10:54 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hmm.  It's doable, but I see Mary's point, that is a lot of keys.  Sometimes 
>> I think that when VO commands are being decided, there's someone who must 
>> think all blind people have ten extra fingers.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:51 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   VO command shift.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 10/29/2017 10:48 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 So what is the new command for the language rotor?  I, too, switch between 
 languages frequently.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra 
> and High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the 
> language one.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
>> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people 
>> freaked out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech 
>> rotor.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
>>> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need 
>>> multiple languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they 
>>> changed it. Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor 
>>> thing to be able to switch easily among languages on the fly.
>>> Mary
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like 
 some commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade 
 one of these days.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is 
> just that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most 
> everything on my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing 
> pretty much all of the time.
> 
> Mary
> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Anne Robertson]

I haven’t yet installed High Sierra on my own computer mainly because of the 
language switching. I’ve put High Sierra on our teaching machine and it seems 
that they think that the automatic language switching should be sufficient, but 
of course it isn’t. It only seems to work in HTML and only when correctly 
tagged.
The only solution I can think of for now is to create an activity for each 
language that you use. I haven’t tried this yet as the teaching machine is 
normally only used in French.
And that’s another thing. The localisation is getting shoddier with every new 
macOS, at least in French.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 29 Oct 2017, at 18:44, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm sure they are correct that more people will use the navigation as 
> opposed to the language thing. But I use the language thing a lot between 
> English and Russian, and now they've messed it up even to the point where the 
> voices you use don't sit next to each other like they used to, even once you 
> have mastered the multi finger smashed language setting. Smile.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
>> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
>> out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
>>> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need 
>>> multiple languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they 
>>> changed it. Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing 
>>> to be able to switch easily among languages on the fly.
>>> Mary
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
 commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
 these days.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
> that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on 
> my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all 
> of the time.
> 
> Mary
> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[E.T.]

   Hmmm. Have you ever done a PRAM reset?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:54 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hmm.  It's doable, but I see Mary's point, that is a lot of keys.  Sometimes I 
think that when VO commands are being decided, there's someone who must think 
all blind people have ten extra fingers.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:51 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   VO command shift.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:48 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

So what is the new command for the language rotor?  I, too, switch between 
languages frequently.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra and 
High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the language one.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked out 
over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just that 
I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my phone, 
because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the time.

Mary

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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Donna Goodin]

Hmm.  It's doable, but I see Mary's point, that is a lot of keys.  Sometimes I 
think that when VO commands are being decided, there's someone who must think 
all blind people have ten extra fingers.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:51 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   VO command shift.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/29/2017 10:48 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So what is the new command for the language rotor?  I, too, switch between 
>> languages frequently.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra 
>>> and High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the 
>>> language one.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
 settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
 out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need 
> multiple languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they 
> changed it. Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing 
> to be able to switch easily among languages on the fly.
> Mary
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
>> commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
>> these days.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is 
>>> just that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most 
>>> everything on my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing 
>>> pretty much all of the time.
>>> 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[E.T.]

   VO command shift.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:48 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

So what is the new command for the language rotor?  I, too, switch between 
languages frequently.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra and 
High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the language one.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked out 
over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just that 
I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my phone, 
because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the time.

Mary

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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[E.T.]

   I imagine there is something on Applevis.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:45 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra and 
High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the language one.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:

   That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked out 
over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just that 
I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my phone, 
because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the time.

Mary

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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
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iPhone storage

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi in IOS 11 you get the full amount of storage  I’m getting full use of my 
available 64GB and this wasn’t the case in 10!  Have they partitioned of the OS?

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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Interesting.  So it works like FreeConferenceCall, only with video capability?
TIA,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:46 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> As a matter of fact yes it does.  Don’t remember it off hand but what happens 
> is this.  The caller dials the phone number and punches in the meating ID you 
> give them.  That’s all there is to it.
> 
> 
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Ray,
>> 
>> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
>> 
>> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
 Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who 
 keep accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several 
 organisations that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage 
 organisations which do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom 
 is one of the least expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
> be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
>> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
>> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
>> had called a wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
>> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  
>> I know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have 
>> not been happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[E.T.]

   Change comes with a price. I masted the new VO command fairly 
quickly. For me this is next to minor compared to other functions in 
High Sierra. Still a work in progress.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:44 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

Well, I'm sure they are correct that more people will use the navigation as 
opposed to the language thing. But I use the language thing a lot between 
English and Russian, and now they've messed it up even to the point where the 
voices you use don't sit next to each other like they used to, even once you 
have mastered the multi finger smashed language setting. Smile.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:

   That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked out 
over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just that 
I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my phone, 
because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the time.

Mary

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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Donna Goodin]

So what is the new command for the language rotor?  I, too, switch between 
languages frequently.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra and 
> High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the language one.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
>> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
>> out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
>>> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need 
>>> multiple languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they 
>>> changed it. Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing 
>>> to be able to switch easily among languages on the fly.
>>> Mary
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
 commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
 these days.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
> that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on 
> my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all 
> of the time.
> 
> Mary
> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 

Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

As a matter of fact yes it does.  Don’t remember it off hand but what happens 
is this.  The caller dials the phone number and punches in the meating ID you 
give them.  That’s all there is to it.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Ray,
> 
> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
> 
> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
>>> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which 
>>> do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Donna.
 
 I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
 be.  
 For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
> had called a wrong number.
> 
> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I 
> know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not 
> been happy with the call quality.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
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> 
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> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Mary Otten]

Is there a list somewhere of the things that have changed between Sierra and 
High Sierra? I'm talking video keyboard commands here, like the language one.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
> out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
>> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple 
>> languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. 
>> Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to 
>> switch easily among languages on the fly.
>> Mary
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
>>> commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
>>> these days.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
 that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on 
 my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of 
 the time.
 
 Mary
 
 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
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>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
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>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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> 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Mary Otten]

Well, I'm sure they are correct that more people will use the navigation as 
opposed to the language thing. But I use the language thing a lot between 
English and Russian, and now they've messed it up even to the point where the 
voices you use don't sit next to each other like they used to, even once you 
have mastered the multi finger smashed language setting. Smile.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 10:40 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing voice 
> settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people freaked 
> out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech rotor.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the 
>> language one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple 
>> languages I guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. 
>> Obviously something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to 
>> switch easily among languages on the fly.
>> Mary
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
>>> commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
>>> these days.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
 that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on 
 my phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of 
 the time.
 
 Mary
 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[E.T.]

   That was actually a nice change unless one is constantly changing 
voice settings. The navigation rotor is quite useful. I know many people 
freaked out over the change to the VO command used to invoke the speech 
rotor.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/29/2017 10:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna

On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just that 
I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my phone, 
because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the time.

Mary

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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Mary Otten]

I'm not sure what all commands have changed, except I'm sure about the language 
one, which is really kind of a nuisance. If you don't need multiple languages I 
guess it won't bother you. I'm not sure why they changed it. Obviously 
something took over what used to be the rotor thing to be able to switch easily 
among languages on the fly.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 6:02 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
> commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of 
> these days.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
>> that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my 
>> phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the 
>> time. 
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
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Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?

[Mary Otten]

I have not tried sharing this particular PDF to iBooks. I certainly have tried 
PDFs on iBooks in the past, lots of them, with less than ideal results in terms 
of navigability. That was on and I device. The last time I tried iBooks, not 
even a PDF file, just iBooks with books I have bought on a Mac, I really had a 
difficult time with it, much more so than on the eye device. So long answer but 
no I haven't try this particular file. I want to read continuously, and I want 
to be able to access links and tables. Are you suggesting that there are 
improvements in PDF reading on iBooks for either the Mac or iOS?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:43 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Have you tried sharing the PDF to iBooks?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 07:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sandy,
>> Well, I have had very bad luck with PDF files in iBooks on my phone or my 
>> iPad. And I've had bad luck getting to grips with iBooks on the Mac at all. 
>> But anyway back to the iPad. Because I haven't had a lot of luck with PDFs 
>> in general, I haven't tried tables in iBooks within a PDF file of coarse. 
>> PDFs can open within the Mail app. I was kind of hoping that either within 
>> Safari or within the Mail app, that reading of PDFs would have been improved.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 1:00 PM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mary, let me check, i think some of my aviation books have tables in 
>>> them...note i read them in iBooks, so not sure if it that is what you are 
>>> after?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sandie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 28 Oct 2017, at 20.53, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi Sandy,
 Regarding your iPad, how about PDF files. They're supposed to be 
 improvements in iOS 11. I haven't upgraded my phone there, because their 
 issues I don't want to deal with. And I'm not sure that my older iPad mini 
 2 is exactly a fair test, because it is really pretty slow. I'm interested 
 in navigating within PDF files, reading tables etc. The Mac is supposed to 
 have improved on that score as well, but that would be a different thread.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:39 AM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
> 
> Hi, lets turn the conversation back on track.
> iPad or  with IOS 11 really takes care of most of my needs these days.
> Would i wanna use it for a long read? Yes,
> How about browsing.
> Works okay.
> Also works for documents, and mails. And medical documentation, that i 
> need to write , sometimes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 07.29, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> Yeah I get that busy busy etc on a mac mini with i7 quad core 2.6 GHz 
>> processor and 16 gb ram,
>>  
>> Don’t see why that busy issue happens when it shouldn’t/
>>  
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:44 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?
>>  
>> Minipro would be great. But I sort of think the chances of that resemble 
>> those of a snowball in a very hot place, if you know what I mean. I 
>> would love to be wrong. Regarding the Mac being better, with my Mac Mini 
>> having a full 16 GB of RAM, I'm bloody sick of busy, busy, busy in apps 
>> like Safari and Mail. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have this problem.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi mary,
>>  
>> Yeah good points and I can see how the iPad pro would be usefull for an 
>> average user but not enough power for the power user, no networking or 
>> disk utilities 
>> No terminal,
>> Etc,
>>  
>> But if your doing word processing and cloud based document mangement 
>> then yeah a good tool.
>>  
>> Especially if your on the go in and out of meetings or travelling it
>> S alot lighter  
>>  
>> But guess we’ll see what happens,
>>  
>> I just wish they’
>> D give us a pro ipad mini.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 28/10/2017, at 5:09 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Apple is making a case that an iPad Pro with iOS 11 can be a good 
>> desktop replacement for some folks, if you don't need to do a lot of 
>> heavy lifting at Cetera. I wonder how that scenario is working out for 
>> any of those 

Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi and thanks so much.
I was looking to play the audio books either in my Sonos system or in my Victor 
Readers, i have both a Stream and a Stratos.
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 18:25 skrev jeff `greene :
> 
> Hi Krister,
> As far as .m4b files go the answer is yes and no. The only thing I
> know of that will play them on the mac is itunes, and possibly
> quicktime. On windows s, windows media player will play them, although
> it will bitch at you the first few times you try it. Where do you want
> to play your audio books?
> As far as apps to join mp3's i'll look around and see what I can find.
> I use mp3 surgeon on windows and it works fine. On the amac I've
> useany audio joiner from the app store but its not reliable. Sometimes
> it joins mp3's very quickly and then the result doesn't play right.
> Other times it takes hours to do nne book, so I deleted it off my mac.
> I'll take a look around and get back to you about  mp3 joiners.Jeff
> 
> 
> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>> Can an .m4b file be played outside the Apple eco system? Also could you give
>> an example of a good app that combines many .mp3 files into one?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:43 skrev jeff `greene :
>>> 
>>> Hi Krister,
>>> There is an app I use called audio book binder. Its available in the
>>> app store. It does want to import your books into itunes but you can
>>> turn this off in the preferences. It takes a bunch of mp3's and turns
>>> them into 1 .m4b file. If you want to join together a bunch of mp3's
>>> into one mp3 there are apps in the mac app store that do that too.
>>> Hope this helps! Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
 Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
 from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book
 into
 iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books
 into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some
 chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there
 was
 a way via an application to sort this mess out.
 I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
 to
 avoid like the plague.
 Any help with this would be appreciated.
 /Krister
 
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 or
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[jeff `greene]

Hi Krister,
As far as .m4b files go the answer is yes and no. The only thing I
know of that will play them on the mac is itunes, and possibly
quicktime. On windows s, windows media player will play them, although
it will bitch at you the first few times you try it. Where do you want
to play your audio books?
As far as apps to join mp3's i'll look around and see what I can find.
I use mp3 surgeon on windows and it works fine. On the amac I've
useany audio joiner from the app store but its not reliable. Sometimes
it joins mp3's very quickly and then the result doesn't play right.
Other times it takes hours to do nne book, so I deleted it off my mac.
I'll take a look around and get back to you about  mp3 joiners.Jeff


On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> Can an .m4b file be played outside the Apple eco system? Also could you give
> an example of a good app that combines many .mp3 files into one?
> /Krister
>
>
>> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:43 skrev jeff `greene :
>>
>> Hi Krister,
>> There is an app I use called audio book binder. Its available in the
>> app store. It does want to import your books into itunes but you can
>> turn this off in the preferences. It takes a bunch of mp3's and turns
>> them into 1 .m4b file. If you want to join together a bunch of mp3's
>> into one mp3 there are apps in the mac app store that do that too.
>> Hope this helps! Jeff
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>>> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
>>> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book
>>> into
>>> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books
>>> into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some
>>> chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there
>>> was
>>> a way via an application to sort this mess out.
>>> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want
>>> to
>>> avoid like the plague.
>>> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>>> /Krister
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Mary Otten]

Hi Tim, one other thing. You mentioned reporting a bug with this PDF reading. 
Is that just to Apple accessibility? Or is there another place to report that 
might give better results? I would be happy to report a bug if possible. I 
really really do not want to have to buy another Windows machine. But if I 
can't get this in a couple of other things sorted, I will have to do that.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is an 
> issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt with.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would appear 
> that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. That is 
> unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of page 1, I 
> want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and continue, such 
> as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. Anyway, is there 
> anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page with some text, I'm 
> told that there are such and so many items, and I can't get a continuous read 
> to go all the way through. In other words, this is as screwed up as it ever 
> was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? I'm thinking about trying 
>  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more about that app before I pay 
> for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. I'm really not that 
> demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have been able to do on 
> windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a decent screen reader.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Mary Otten]

Thanks, Tim. This is depressing. VO down arrow through a multipage document is 
simply unacceptable. Talk about a way to get carpal tunnel. Smile. In your 
experience, is there an application that will let me access PDF files that are 
not images in a way that is at all comparable to what I have had on windows for 
several years? I have a really old Windows machine which needs to go away. I 
keep it for a few reasons, one of which is that it still reads PDF files well. 
Unfortunately, I can't access a lot of websites I need to with his old machine, 
and even finding and sending PDF attachments to myself on the windows machine 
doesn't work, because I don't see the attachments for whatever reason. I was 
really hoping that with this new High Sierra, one of my reasons for keeping our 
old machine would go away. If I can't get to grips with this in efficient way 
on the Mac, I'm going to just have to buy a new Windows machine, learn windows 
10 and learn a new screen reader, all of which are things I don't want to do. I 
bought my first Mac went snow leopard came out, and it was stable and worked 
well with a few exceptions of course, but by this time, I was really thinking I 
should have been able to totally dumb windows. Not so fast.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
> glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
> separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though 
> where it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is an 
> issue for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt with.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
> folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in 
> preview and there is a document group containing three pages. It would appear 
> that you have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. That is 
> unnecessary in my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of page 1, I 
> want to read straight through, or have the option to stop and continue, such 
> as if there is a table, which in this case there isn't. Anyway, is there 
> anyway to actually get this thing to read? Even on a page with some text, I'm 
> told that there are such and so many items, and I can't get a continuous read 
> to go all the way through. In other words, this is as screwed up as it ever 
> was. What am I missing? Where are the improvements? I'm thinking about trying 
>  skim. But I would like to know a little bit more about that app before I pay 
> for it and find it doesn't meet my needs either. I'm really not that 
> demanding. I just want to be able to do what you have been able to do on 
> windows for probably a decade now with PDF files in a decent screen reader.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Can an .m4b file be played outside the Apple eco system? Also could you give an 
example of a good app that combines many .mp3 files into one?
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 15:43 skrev jeff `greene :
> 
> Hi Krister,
> There is an app I use called audio book binder. Its available in the
> app store. It does want to import your books into itunes but you can
> turn this off in the preferences. It takes a bunch of mp3's and turns
> them into 1 .m4b file. If you want to join together a bunch of mp3's
> into one mp3 there are apps in the mac app store that do that too.
> Hope this helps! Jeff
> 
> 
> On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
>> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into
>> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books
>> into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some
>> chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there was
>> a way via an application to sort this mess out.
>> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to
>> avoid like the plague.
>> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>> /Krister
>> 
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: Preview for PDFs on the Mac under High Sierra, some questions

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Mary,

Actually, if you interact with Page 1, then VO-down through the pdf, it will 
glide straight past page changes without the need to interact with each 
separate page.  The problem with the VO-a does seem to be present though where 
it only reads the current element, not the entire document.  This is an issue 
for sure and I will be submitting a bug report to have it dealt with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 28, 2017, at 16:04, Mary Otten  wrote:

I finally upgraded my Mac to high Sierra. I found a simple PDF in my email 
folder. I finally figured out how to open the attachment. It opened in preview 
and there is a document group containing three pages. It would appear that you 
have to enter act with each page if you want to read it. That is unnecessary in 
my opinion. If you do it a read all from the top of page 1, I want to read 
straight through, or have the option to stop and continue, such as if there is 
a table, which in this case there isn't. Anyway, is there anyway to actually 
get this thing to read? Even on a page with some text, I'm told that there are 
such and so many items, and I can't get a continuous read to go all the way 
through. In other words, this is as screwed up as it ever was. What am I 
missing? Where are the improvements? I'm thinking about trying  skim. But I 
would like to know a little bit more about that app before I pay for it and 
find it doesn't meet my needs either. I'm really not that demanding. I just 
want to be able to do what you have been able to do on windows for probably a 
decade now with PDF files in a decent screen reader.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Preview and PDF's

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Anne,

Yes, labelling of fields is often a problem, no matter which PDF app you're 
using.  I use PDFPen Pro a fair amount, but I run into the same issues when the 
forms do not have their labels properly labelled.  I guess it is similar to the 
frustrations we have with unlabelled elements in apps.  Until developers and 
form creators take our needs into consideration, we're going to come up against 
barriers too often.  Quite often the form creators use automated form creation 
like is found in Acrobat Pro and other high end PDF apps, then just leave it at 
that.  They don't appear to take the extra effort required to make them truly 
accessible.

Oh well, I'll get off my soapbox now.  Have a good one.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Oct 29, 2017, at 08:47, Anne Robertson  wrote:

Hello Tim,

We put High Sierra on our MacBook that we use for teaching, and I’ve looked at 
a PDF tax form. The editable fields are accessible, but it seems to be 
impossible to tell where each field is located and not all the fields are 
labelled. Not yet really usable.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 26 Oct 2017, at 03:46, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In the promotional info about High Sierra, it was mentioned about 
> improvements to the Preview app, especially with respect to VO.  One specific 
> item I've just notice is that Preview and VO now work together in fillable 
> PDF forms.  The editable fields are now accessible and announced by VO when 
> navigating the form.  You can either use VO navigation or tab between the 
> fields.  You must first be in a field before the tab navigation works, but 
> that's normal behaviour.  If the developer of the form is lazy and does not 
> properly label the edit fields, it could cause us frustration knowing what 
> field relates to what label, but that's also expected.
> 
> Try it out some time, if you dare :).
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
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Re: Preview and PDF's

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Tim,

We put High Sierra on our MacBook that we use for teaching, and I’ve looked at 
a PDF tax form. The editable fields are accessible, but it seems to be 
impossible to tell where each field is located and not all the fields are 
labelled. Not yet really usable.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 26 Oct 2017, at 03:46, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In the promotional info about High Sierra, it was mentioned about 
> improvements to the Preview app, especially with respect to VO.  One specific 
> item I've just notice is that Preview and VO now work together in fillable 
> PDF forms.  The editable fields are now accessible and announced by VO when 
> navigating the form.  You can either use VO navigation or tab between the 
> fields.  You must first be in a field before the tab navigation works, but 
> that's normal behaviour.  If the developer of the form is lazy and does not 
> properly label the edit fields, it could cause us frustration knowing what 
> field relates to what label, but that's also expected.
> 
> Try it out some time, if you dare :).
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> -- 
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Re: Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[jeff `greene]

Hi Krister,
There is an app I use called audio book binder. Its available in the
app store. It does want to import your books into itunes but you can
turn this off in the preferences. It takes a bunch of mp3's and turns
them into 1 .m4b file. If you want to join together a bunch of mp3's
into one mp3 there are apps in the mac app store that do that too.
Hope this helps! Jeff


On 10/29/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books
> from folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into
> iTunes. The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books
> into Sonos or my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some
> chapters of a book appear before others, and it would be great if there was
> a way via an application to sort this mess out.
> I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to
> avoid like the plague.
> Any help with this would be appreciated.
> /Krister
>
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Application for the Mac that can build audio books?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi I’m looking for an application for the Mac that can build Audio books from 
folders with .mp3 or other files and that does not place the book into iTunes. 
The reason i want this is that sometimes when i load audio books into Sonos or 
my Victor Reader the files get messed upp so that some chapters of a book 
appear before others, and it would be great if there was a way via an 
application to sort this mess out.
I looked at Audio book builder but it required iTunes, something i want to 
avoid like the plague.
Any help with this would be appreciated.
/Krister

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Sports Score Updates On My Mac

[Brian Hansen]

I’m looking for either an application and/or widget that will allow me to setup 
and keep track of my favorite teams, as well as have access to live scores. I 
tried installing the Yahoo Sports app for the Mac, but it seems to be pretty 
much useless. Not to mention, it hasn’t been updated in a few years. I guess 
I’m really looking for the ease and convenience of what I have on the iPhone. 
If there isn’t any kind of app or widget available for the Mac, is there a good 
web alternative without all of the clutter? Any and all help would be greatly 
appreciated.

Blessings,

Brian

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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Krister Ekstrom]

I myself use Whatsapp for almost all my phoning and messaging needs. I don’t 
know if you can call outside Whatsapp though. Unfortunately it seems Zoom isn’t 
available here in Sweden for some reasson.
I would recommend Viber but i have gotten some spams there so i’m not sure i 
want to have to do with them at all.
/Krister


> 29 okt. 2017 kl. 14:09 skrev Donna Goodin :
> 
> Hi Kawal,
> 
> I feel your pain.  I have to use Skype for Business at my day job, too, and I 
> don't like it either.  I swear Microsoft just ruins everything they touch.
> 
> The problem with Face time is that it only works with other apple products.  
> I use Skype in my coaching business.  So I need a solution that isn't Apple 
> limited.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be. 
>>  
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>>> wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>>> happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Michael Busboom]

I, too, must admit to liking Skype less and less.  I use FaceTime quite a lot 
when speaking with other Apple users and WhatsApp when talking to anyone else.

Another app that I use on a weekly basis is Appear.in . It allows you to do 
screensharing and up to eight people at a time can be in a private chat room. 
The app can be used for free, but if you buy their premium package (which I 
have not) you get more bandwidth and probably other options.  One advantage one 
has with appear.in is that you don’t need any special app to use it. It works 
just by using your Internet browser’s capabilities.

I have a question about Zoom: Most of the people I work with are sighted.  Does 
Zoom allow you to do screen sharing and share PowerPoint presentations in 
real-time?

Thanks for reading,

Mike


> On 29 Oct 2017, at 14:13, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Ray,
> 
> Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?
> 
> Thanks very much for the suggestion.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  
>> Beats Skype all to hell in my opinion.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, 
>>> Android, Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which 
>>> do not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Donna.
 
 I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
 be.  
 For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was 
> able to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me 
> think that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message 
> had called a wrong number.
> 
> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought 
> it.  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I 
> know about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not 
> been happy with the call quality.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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> Visionaries list.
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> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Same page links in IOS mail

[Donna Goodin]

Paul,

I do experience this on occasion.  Sometimes interacting helps.  I've also 
found that sometimes exiting and reopening the message helps.  Kind of a pain, 
I know, but it usually works.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> I am running IOS 11.0.3 on my iPhone 5S. I subscribe to the digest format for 
> macvisionaries. This starts by a list of the titles of each post and an 
> indication of the number of updates for that post. Each title is a same page 
> link to more detail later in the digest Email. 
> 
> Sometimes I can double tap on one of the above same page links and I am taken 
> to the more detail for that post. However often double tapping on a same page 
> link does nothing. I have tried using links and words in the rota to be sure 
> that the VO cursor is correctly positioned on the same page link but alas 
> this does not help. 
> 
> Do others have this problem? Is there a way round the problem? 
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Paul Hopewell 
> 
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Same page links in IOS mail

[Paul Hopewell]

Hello, 
I am running IOS 11.0.3 on my iPhone 5S. I subscribe to the digest format for 
macvisionaries. This starts by a list of the titles of each post and an 
indication of the number of updates for that post. Each title is a same page 
link to more detail later in the digest Email. 

Sometimes I can double tap on one of the above same page links and I am taken 
to the more detail for that post. However often double tapping on a same page 
link does nothing. I have tried using links and words in the rota to be sure 
that the VO cursor is correctly positioned on the same page link but alas this 
does not help. 

Do others have this problem? Is there a way round the problem? 

Many thanks.

Paul Hopewell 

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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi David and Ray,

Does Zoom give you the option of having a phone number that people can call?

Thanks very much for the suggestion.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 5:07 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  Beats 
> Skype all to hell in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
>> Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
>> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
>> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
>> not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
>> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna.
>>> 
>>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs 
>>> be.  
>>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
 On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi, all,
 
 I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
 to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think 
 that perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had 
 called a wrong number.
 
 That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it. 
  Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
 about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
 happy with the call quality.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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>>> 
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>> 
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>> 

Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Kawal,

I feel your pain.  I have to use Skype for Business at my day job, too, and I 
don't like it either.  I swear Microsoft just ruins everything they touch.

The problem with Face time is that it only works with other apple products.  I 
use Skype in my coaching business.  So I need a solution that isn't Apple 
limited.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>> wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>> happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Donna Goodin]

Glad it worked, Mary. Also glad it hasn't changed - it sounds like some 
commands have changed in High Sierra.  Guess I'll have to upgrade one of these 
days.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 28, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Donna. That worked. It has not changed in High Sierra. It is just 
> that I had given up on the mail app in Sierra and done most everything on my 
> phone, because mail just gave me the busy busy thing pretty much all of the 
> time. 
> 
> Mary
> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

I second that for sure.  On the Mac, Zoom is quite accessible as well.  Beats 
Skype all to hell in my opinion.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 3:41 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
> Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
> accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
> that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
> not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
> expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna.
>> 
>> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be. 
>>  
>> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>>> wrong number.
>>> 
>>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>>> happy with the call quality.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?

[Daniela Rubio]

Hello all!

I have been a power Mac user for many years for personal stop, but for work, I 
mostly do document editing, and other productivity things like translation 
software, etc.

I have an iPad Pro with a start keyboard 2 months ago because I travel a lot, 
and I should say that sometimes I find my self using it for producing documents 
rather than my Mac. The last iWork updates have been a disaster for Mac, and 
for example, I now prefer to work in my iPad in Pages, because things run 
smooth there.

However, for other things, like editing sound or video, I use only my Mac.

It really depends on your needs and preferences!

Best, Daniela


> El 28 oct 2017, a las 20:39, sandi sørensen  escribió:
> 
> Hi, lets turn the conversation back on track.
> iPad or  with IOS 11 really takes care of most of my needs these days.
> Would i wanna use it for a long read? Yes,
> How about browsing.
> Works okay.
> Also works for documents, and mails. And medical documentation, that i need 
> to write , sometimes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 07.29, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> Yeah I get that busy busy etc on a mac mini with i7 quad core 2.6 GHz 
>> processor and 16 gb ram,
>>  
>> Don’t see why that busy issue happens when it shouldn’t/
>>  
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:44 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?
>>  
>> Minipro would be great. But I sort of think the chances of that resemble 
>> those of a snowball in a very hot place, if you know what I mean. I would 
>> love to be wrong. Regarding the Mac being better, with my Mac Mini having a 
>> full 16 GB of RAM, I'm bloody sick of busy, busy, busy in apps like Safari 
>> and Mail. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have this problem.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi mary, 
>>  
>> Yeah good points and I can see how the iPad pro would be usefull for an 
>> average user but not enough power for the power user, no networking or disk 
>> utilities 
>> No terminal,
>> Etc,
>>  
>> But if your doing word processing and cloud based document mangement then 
>> yeah a good tool.
>>  
>> Especially if your on the go in and out of meetings or travelling it
>> S alot lighter  
>>  
>> But guess we’ll see what happens,
>>  
>> I just wish they’
>> D give us a pro ipad mini.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 28/10/2017, at 5:09 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>> Apple is making a case that an iPad Pro with iOS 11 can be a good desktop 
>> replacement for some folks, if you don't need to do a lot of heavy lifting 
>> at Cetera. I wonder how that scenario is working out for any of those of you 
>> who are using this iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Drag-and-drop, PDF, word 
>> processing, browsing foull sites as opposed to mobile sites, etc. Best Buy 
>> right now has a pretty nice sale going on iPad miles, or you can save 
>> somewhere between 125 or $150 depending on the model.Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> 
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>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
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>> The following information is 

Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?

[David Chittenden]

Have you tried sharing the PDF to iBooks?

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 07:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sandy,
> Well, I have had very bad luck with PDF files in iBooks on my phone or my 
> iPad. And I've had bad luck getting to grips with iBooks on the Mac at all. 
> But anyway back to the iPad. Because I haven't had a lot of luck with PDFs in 
> general, I haven't tried tables in iBooks within a PDF file of coarse. PDFs 
> can open within the Mail app. I was kind of hoping that either within Safari 
> or within the Mail app, that reading of PDFs would have been improved.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 1:00 PM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary, let me check, i think some of my aviation books have tables in 
>> them...note i read them in iBooks, so not sure if it that is what you are 
>> after?
>> 
>> 
>> Sandie
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 20.53, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Sandy,
>>> Regarding your iPad, how about PDF files. They're supposed to be 
>>> improvements in iOS 11. I haven't upgraded my phone there, because their 
>>> issues I don't want to deal with. And I'm not sure that my older iPad mini 
>>> 2 is exactly a fair test, because it is really pretty slow. I'm interested 
>>> in navigating within PDF files, reading tables etc. The Mac is supposed to 
>>> have improved on that score as well, but that would be a different thread.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:39 AM, sandi sørensen  wrote:
 
 Hi, lets turn the conversation back on track.
 iPad or  with IOS 11 really takes care of most of my needs these days.
 Would i wanna use it for a long read? Yes,
 How about browsing.
 Works okay.
 Also works for documents, and mails. And medical documentation, that i 
 need to write , sometimes.
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 07.29, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> Yeah I get that busy busy etc on a mac mini with i7 quad core 2.6 GHz 
> processor and 16 gb ram,
>  
> Don’t see why that busy issue happens when it shouldn’t/
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: IPad Pro and iOS 11, how are the new features?
>  
> Minipro would be great. But I sort of think the chances of that resemble 
> those of a snowball in a very hot place, if you know what I mean. I would 
> love to be wrong. Regarding the Mac being better, with my Mac Mini having 
> a full 16 GB of RAM, I'm bloody sick of busy, busy, busy in apps like 
> Safari and Mail. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have this problem.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi mary,
>  
> Yeah good points and I can see how the iPad pro would be usefull for an 
> average user but not enough power for the power user, no networking or 
> disk utilities 
> No terminal,
> Etc,
>  
> But if your doing word processing and cloud based document mangement then 
> yeah a good tool.
>  
> Especially if your on the go in and out of meetings or travelling it
> S alot lighter  
>  
> But guess we’ll see what happens,
>  
> I just wish they’
> D give us a pro ipad mini.
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 28/10/2017, at 5:09 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Apple is making a case that an iPad Pro with iOS 11 can be a good desktop 
> replacement for some folks, if you don't need to do a lot of heavy 
> lifting at Cetera. I wonder how that scenario is working out for any of 
> those of you who are using this iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. 
> Drag-and-drop, PDF, word processing, browsing foull sites as opposed to 
> mobile sites, etc. Best Buy right now has a pretty nice sale going on 
> iPad miles, or you can save somewhere between 125 or $150 depending on 
> the model.Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Getting to the top of the messages table in the mail

[Andrew Lamanche]

It’s option+command+up arrow and down arrow respectively.

Andrew

> On Oct 28, 2017, at 11:07 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Having upgraded my Mac to high Sierra, I thought I would give mail another 
> chance on this machine. However, I cannot remember or figure out by randomly 
> trying different key combinations, how you get from somewhere in the middle 
> of a table up to the top. I have a full keyboard with the number pad. I am 
> still using the old classic view I guess it's called. But I don't think that 
> should make a difference, should it?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[David Chittenden]

Zoom is the up-and-coming teleconferencing app. It works on iPhone, Android, 
Windows, and Mac. It is rather accessible with developers who keep 
accessibility in mind during development and updates. Several organisations 
that I communicate or work with use Zoom. I encourage organisations which do 
not use Zoom to change. Amongst other reasons, Zoom is one of the least 
expensive apps, yet has a very robust feature set.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Oct 2017, at 17:52, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
> 
> I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be.  
> For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
>> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able 
>> to leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
>> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
>> wrong number.
>> 
>> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
>> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
>> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
>> happy with the call quality.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: alternatives to Skype?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi Donna.

I use Skype less and less and only use Face time and what's app if needs be.  
For work I have to use Skype for Business and I do not like it.
> On 28 Oct 2017, at 21:18, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I seem to have kinda sorta resolved the voicemail issue in that I was able to 
> leave myself one and successfully retrieve it.  This makes me think that 
> perhaps the person who thought they had left a voice message had called a 
> wrong number.
> 
> That said, I've been liking Skype less and less since Microsoft bought it.  
> Just curious if anyone is using an alternative app?  If so, what?  I know 
> about GoogleVoice, but wonder about its longevity, and also have not been 
> happy with the call quality.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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