Private Internet Access vpn accessibility

[Andrew Lamanche]

Hi,

Just wanted to ask whether anybody on the list has had experience of Private 
Internet Access vpn apps for mac and iOS. If yes, could you share your views on 
accessibility of the service?

Andrew

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Re: Braille Displays

[Maria Reyes]

Ok ok let’s get back on topic here. Has anyone tried the Brailliant BI 32?

Sent from my sprint iPhone X!!!

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:00 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> Well, all I can say is that I am sad that you would rather drop off a 
> mailinglist than admit that your information was not correct, and be willing 
> to admit that you were wrong.  Obviously you operate more on what you want to 
> believe about blindness products than on facts.  That is really sad given 
> that I believe you worked in a position with a university student 
> disabilities office prior to your retirement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:45 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
> 
> Well, as a not assistive technology specialist, excuse me for posting. I will 
> be on subscribing because of people like you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:41 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, but as an assistive technology specialist who has been in this field 
>> for over 30 years I have seen so many blind folks lead down the road to 
>> purchase a Braille product that was not what they really needed because 
>> people who didn't know what they were talking about gave them information 
>> that was not correct.  That isn't fair to that individual, and when I see 
>> statements made that are completely untrue I will continue to say so.
>> 
>> I am not completely opposed to Focus Braille displays, even though my 
>> experience with them is that they are cheaply made, and their Braille cells 
>> are far inferior to those of a majority of Braille displays on the market 
>> today.
>> 
>> For the price a person would do much better with a Hims Braille Edge for 
>> almost the same price as a Focus Braille Blue 40, and have note taking 
>> features that the Focus does not have.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:27 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>> 
>> David, please calm down. I said it was all from memory. So just get off your 
>> high horse. For once. I did look up the current information on the hymns 
>> site about the active braille etc. It’s very expensive for what it is. If 
>> you have the big bucks, go for it. If you’re like most of us, well you can 
>> dream.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:23 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a 
>>> thing.  I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  
>>> We both live in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for 
>>> many years.  I also own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer 
>>> at work for five years, and have recommended purchase of a number of Active 
>>> Braille and Active Star displays from Earle's company for many years, the 
>>> latest being this fall.
>>> 
>>> The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone 
>>> since as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  
>>> 
>>> I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
>>> completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements 
>>> like this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair 
>>> to the company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand 
>>> out false information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.
>>> 
>>> Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, 
>>> and with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find 
>>> anywhere.  And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all 
>>> have the ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus 
>>> that has note taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>>> 
>>> I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
>>> braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on 
>>> interviews I had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have 
>>> seen written elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only 
>>> with a special software.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Donna Goodin  wrote:
> You 

Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[E.T.]

   Yep. Might have trouble getting one so in that case may go for the 
Focus 5th.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 7:44 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

I just checked at the HIMS website. David is right about the pricing for the 
Active Braille and the Active Star, $6400 and 6800 respectively.  I think 
they're the most expensive braille displays I've ever encountered.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:38 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   Used to be 4 grand. Tells me the Edge in the way out.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 7:14 PM, David Tanner wrote:

I was not aware of the sale but that is a very good price and you are correct 
it is 40 cells.
David Tanner
 From my iPhone 8

On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
internal memory?
Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about $2500 
less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:

These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.

Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.

Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
option that people should consider if they can afford it.

One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under $500 
is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so many 
problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have done a 
better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they purchase one.





-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?

Hi all,

I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

I just checked at the HIMS website. David is right about the pricing for the 
Active Braille and the Active Star, $6400 and 6800 respectively.  I think 
they're the most expensive braille displays I've ever encountered.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:38 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Used to be 4 grand. Tells me the Edge in the way out.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 7:14 PM, David Tanner wrote:
>> I was not aware of the sale but that is a very good price and you are 
>> correct it is 40 cells.
>> David Tanner
>> From my iPhone 8
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
 internal memory?
 Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
 believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
 $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  
> wrote:
> 
> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
> 
> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.
> 
> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there. 
>  I like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, 
> they are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
> 
> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have 
> had so many problems with those displays that one really should wait 
> until they have done a better job of showing that they can be depended 
> upon before they purchase one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
> On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they 
> cost a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[E.T.]

   Used to be 4 grand. Tells me the Edge in the way out.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 7:14 PM, David Tanner wrote:

I was not aware of the sale but that is a very good price and you are correct 
it is 40 cells.

David Tanner

 From my iPhone 8


On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
internal memory?
Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about $2500 
less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:

These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.

Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.

Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
option that people should consider if they can afford it.

One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under $500 
is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so many 
problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have done a 
better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they purchase one.





-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?

Hi all,

I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

That's a much more reasonable price.  Thanks, Alia.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:08 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> the actilino is $2800  not $4,000
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
> internal memory?
> 
> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>> 
>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
>> 
>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
>> like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>> 
>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they 
>> purchase one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

That makes much more sense.  I'll check the HIMS website for the other two.  I 
had forgotten that they are carrying them now, I was thinking you have to 
purchase them through Earl Harrison.
Cheers,
Donna
P.S.  Thanks, David for giving your best information.
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:13 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for that information. I believe that is the current price now.
> 
> David Tanner
> 
> From my iPhone 8
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:08 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> the actilino is $2800  not $4,000
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
>> internal memory?
>> 
>> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
>> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
>> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>>> 
>>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
>>> 
>>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  
>>> I like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>>> 
>>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before 
>>> they purchase one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

Gee, that's not a bad price at all.  I think it's come down some.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
>> internal memory?
>> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
>> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
>> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>>> 
>>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.
>>> 
>>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  
>>> I like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>>> 
>>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before 
>>> they purchase one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[David Tanner]

I was not aware of the sale but that is a very good price and you are correct 
it is 40 cells.

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 8

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
>> internal memory?
>> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
>> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
>> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>>> 
>>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.
>>> 
>>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  
>>> I like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>>> 
>>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before 
>>> they purchase one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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> --- You received 

Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[David Tanner]

Thank you for that information. I believe that is the current price now.

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 8

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:08 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> the actilino is $2800  not $4,000
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
> internal memory?
> 
> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>> 
>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
>> 
>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
>> like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>> 
>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they 
>> purchase one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[E.T.]

   The Edge is priced at $2,800, on sale now for $2,500.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 6:42 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
internal memory?

Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about $2500 
less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:

These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.

Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800.

Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
option that people should consider if they can afford it.

One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under $500 
is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so many 
problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have done a 
better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they purchase one.





-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?

Hi all,

I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[David Tanner]

Actually the last time I looked Braille Edge was $2,995.00.
 I know a lot of folks who own Edge and are very happy with it.  it is about 
the best value for its price and features.





David Tanner

>From my iPhone 8

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:42 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
> internal memory?
> 
> Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
> believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about 
> $2500 less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
>> 
>> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
>> 
>> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
>> like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind 
>> person has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they 
>> are an option that people should consider if they can afford it.
>> 
>> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
>> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had 
>> so many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they 
>> have done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they 
>> purchase one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost 
>> a small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[alia robinson]

the actilino is $2800  not $4,000

On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
internal memory?

Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about $2500 
less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
> 
> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
> 
> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
> like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
> has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
> option that people should consider if they can afford it.
> 
> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so 
> many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have 
> done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they 
> purchase one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
> small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Mary Otten]

Check the Hims site for pricing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
> small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

OMG!!!  That is seriously expensive.  And for all that money, there is no 
internal memory?

Just one thing I would correct.  the Braille Edge has forty cells, and i 
believe comes in right around $4000.  Also no internal memory, but about $2500 
less than the Active Braille and $2800 less than the Active Star.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 8:07 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.
> 
> Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 
> 
> Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
> like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
> has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
> option that people should consider if they can afford it.
> 
> One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under 
> $500 is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so 
> many problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have 
> done a better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they 
> purchase one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
> small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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> 
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RE: cost of Active Braille displays?

[David Tanner]

These prices are close, but may not be exact list prices.

Actileno - $4,000, Active Braille $6,500, Active Star $6,800. 

Yes, they are expensive, and not the right choice for everyone out there.  I 
like my Active Braille, but my employer purchased it.  Not every blind person 
has the opportunity to have a display purchased for them.  But, they are an 
option that people should consider if they can afford it.

One thing folks should consider if they are looking at the displays under $500 
is that they are 20 cells, and in the case of the Orbit they have had so many 
problems with those displays that one really should wait until they have done a 
better job of showing that they can be depended upon before they purchase one.





-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: cost of Active Braille displays?

Hi all,

I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
Cheers,
Donna

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RE: Braille Displays

[David Tanner]

Well, all I can say is that I am sad that you would rather drop off a 
mailinglist than admit that your information was not correct, and be willing to 
admit that you were wrong.  Obviously you operate more on what you want to 
believe about blindness products than on facts.  That is really sad given that 
I believe you worked in a position with a university student disabilities 
office prior to your retirement.




-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:45 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

Well, as a not assistive technology specialist, excuse me for posting. I will 
be on subscribing because of people like you.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:41 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but as an assistive technology specialist who has been in this field 
> for over 30 years I have seen so many blind folks lead down the road to 
> purchase a Braille product that was not what they really needed because 
> people who didn't know what they were talking about gave them information 
> that was not correct.  That isn't fair to that individual, and when I see 
> statements made that are completely untrue I will continue to say so.
> 
> I am not completely opposed to Focus Braille displays, even though my 
> experience with them is that they are cheaply made, and their Braille cells 
> are far inferior to those of a majority of Braille displays on the market 
> today.
> 
> For the price a person would do much better with a Hims Braille Edge for 
> almost the same price as a Focus Braille Blue 40, and have note taking 
> features that the Focus does not have.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
> 
> David, please calm down. I said it was all from memory. So just get off your 
> high horse. For once. I did look up the current information on the hymns site 
> about the active braille etc. It’s very expensive for what it is. If you have 
> the big bucks, go for it. If you’re like most of us, well you can dream.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:23 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a 
>> thing.  I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  
>> We both live in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for 
>> many years.  I also own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer at 
>> work for five years, and have recommended purchase of a number of Active 
>> Braille and Active Star displays from Earle's company for many years, the 
>> latest being this fall.
>> 
>> The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone 
>> since as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  
>> 
>> I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
>> completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements 
>> like this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair 
>> to the company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand 
>> out false information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.
>> 
>> Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, and 
>> with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find 
>> anywhere.  And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all 
>> have the ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus 
>> that has note taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>> 
>> I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
>> braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews 
>> I had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
>> elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
>> software.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna Goodin  wrote:
 You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but 
 have never gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either 
 scrolls too fast, or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech 
>>> displays is that it senses the 

cost of Active Braille displays?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I'm curious.  People have been talking about the Active line like they cost a 
small fortune.  Anyone happen to know the pricing?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Braille Displays

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> Hi all 
> Is their a cheaper braille display to buy anywhere ?


The least expensive options are probably the Orbit Braille Reader from Orbit
Research, and the BrailleMe (noted earlier in this discussion).

They both use very new technologies unlike the piezoelectric mechanism that
most braille displays have relied upon for decades.

I don't know how well supported the above-mentioned products are by current
versions of VoiceOver.

Both are 20-cell displays, if I recall correctly.

More expensive, but still on the "cheap" end of the scale, are the Seika
braille displays. I haven't used one and I don't know whether they're still
available. I can't comment on quality.

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Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

Well, as a not assistive technology specialist, excuse me for posting. I will 
be on subscribing because of people like you.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:41 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but as an assistive technology specialist who has been in this field 
> for over 30 years I have seen so many blind folks lead down the road to 
> purchase a Braille product that was not what they really needed because 
> people who didn't know what they were talking about gave them information 
> that was not correct.  That isn't fair to that individual, and when I see 
> statements made that are completely untrue I will continue to say so.
> 
> I am not completely opposed to Focus Braille displays, even though my 
> experience with them is that they are cheaply made, and their Braille cells 
> are far inferior to those of a majority of Braille displays on the market 
> today.
> 
> For the price a person would do much better with a Hims Braille Edge for 
> almost the same price as a Focus Braille Blue 40, and have note taking 
> features that the Focus does not have.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
> 
> David, please calm down. I said it was all from memory. So just get off your 
> high horse. For once. I did look up the current information on the hymns site 
> about the active braille etc. It’s very expensive for what it is. If you have 
> the big bucks, go for it. If you’re like most of us, well you can dream.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:23 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
>> 
>> I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a 
>> thing.  I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  
>> We both live in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for 
>> many years.  I also own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer at 
>> work for five years, and have recommended purchase of a number of Active 
>> Braille and Active Star displays from Earle's company for many years, the 
>> latest being this fall.
>> 
>> The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone 
>> since as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  
>> 
>> I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
>> completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements 
>> like this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair 
>> to the company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand 
>> out false information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.
>> 
>> Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, and 
>> with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find 
>> anywhere.  And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all 
>> have the ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus 
>> that has note taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>> 
>> I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
>> braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews 
>> I had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
>> elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
>> software.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna Goodin  wrote:
 You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have 
 never gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either 
 scrolls too fast, or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech 
>>> displays is that it senses the location of your fingers, so the 
>>> scrolling isn't based on a timer.
>>> 
>>> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly 
>>> works on Apple devices.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 

RE: Braille Displays

[David Tanner]

Sorry, but as an assistive technology specialist who has been in this field for 
over 30 years I have seen so many blind folks lead down the road to purchase a 
Braille product that was not what they really needed because people who didn't 
know what they were talking about gave them information that was not correct.  
That isn't fair to that individual, and when I see statements made that are 
completely untrue I will continue to say so.

I am not completely opposed to Focus Braille displays, even though my 
experience with them is that they are cheaply made, and their Braille cells are 
far inferior to those of a majority of Braille displays on the market today.

For the price a person would do much better with a Hims Braille Edge for almost 
the same price as a Focus Braille Blue 40, and have note taking features that 
the Focus does not have.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:27 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

David, please calm down. I said it was all from memory. So just get off your 
high horse. For once. I did look up the current information on the hymns site 
about the active braille etc. It’s very expensive for what it is. If you have 
the big bucks, go for it. If you’re like most of us, well you can dream.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:23 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a 
> thing.  I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  We 
> both live in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for many 
> years.  I also own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer at work 
> for five years, and have recommended purchase of a number of Active Braille 
> and Active Star displays from Earle's company for many years, the latest 
> being this fall.
> 
> The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone 
> since as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  
> 
> I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
> completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements 
> like this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair to 
> the company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand out 
> false information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.
> 
> Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, and 
> with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find anywhere. 
>  And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all have the 
> ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus that has note 
> taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
> 
> I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
> braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews 
> I had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
> elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
> software.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have 
>>> never gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either 
>>> scrolls too fast, or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.
>> 
>> 
>> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech 
>> displays is that it senses the location of your fingers, so the 
>> scrolling isn't based on a timer.
>> 
>> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly 
>> works on Apple devices.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
>> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to 

Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

David, please calm down. I said it was all from memory. So just get off your 
high horse. For once. I did look up the current information on the hymns site 
about the active braille etc. It’s very expensive for what it is. If you have 
the big bucks, go for it. If you’re like most of us, well you can dream.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:23 PM, David Tanner  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a 
> thing.  I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  We 
> both live in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for many 
> years.  I also own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer at work 
> for five years, and have recommended purchase of a number of Active Braille 
> and Active Star displays from Earle's company for many years, the latest 
> being this fall.
> 
> The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone 
> since as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  
> 
> I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
> completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements 
> like this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair to 
> the company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand out 
> false information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.
> 
> Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, and 
> with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find anywhere. 
>  And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all have the 
> ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus that has note 
> taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
> 
> I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
> braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews 
> I had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
> elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
> software.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have 
>>> never gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either 
>>> scrolls too fast, or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.
>> 
>> 
>> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech displays 
>> is that it senses the location of your fingers, so the scrolling isn't 
>> based on a timer.
>> 
>> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly works 
>> on Apple devices.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
>> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> ---
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to 

RE: Braille Displays

[David Tanner]

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that Earle would have ever said such a thing.  
I know Earle very well, and actually talked to him earlier today.  We both live 
in the twin cities and have worked together on projects for many years.  I also 
own a Active Braille which I have used on my computer at work for five years, 
and have recommended purchase of a number of Active Braille and Active Star 
displays from Earle's company for many years, the latest being this fall.

The Active Braille, Active Star and Actileno have worked with the iPhone since 
as early as 2011 when I actually got my Active Braille at work.  

I am not sure where you would have gotten this information, but it is 
completely incorrect.  Please check your facts before you make statements like 
this about products you have not owned or never used.  It is not fair to the 
company and their excellent products, and even more unfair to hand out false 
information to blind people looking for a good Braille display.

Frankly, I would rate my Active Braill as at least 50 times better made, and 
with far more features than any Focus Braille display you will find anywhere.  
And, remember that Active Braille displays line of displays all have the 
ability to do note taking on them, but you won't find any Focus that has note 
taking, or nearly as well made Braille cells.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews I 
had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
software.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have 
>> never gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either 
>> scrolls too fast, or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.
> 
> 
> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech displays 
> is that it senses the location of your fingers, so the scrolling isn't 
> based on a timer.
> 
> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly works 
> on Apple devices.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You 

RE: Braille Displays

[Les Kriegler]

Becky,

Write me at kriegle...@gmail.com and I may be able to help you with your 
question.

Les

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rebecca Sabo
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 6:50 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

Hi all 
Is their a cheaper braille display to buy anywhere ?
Becky 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
> my experiences.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to 
>> be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that 
>> hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new 
>> Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
>>> who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
>>> 
>>>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
>>> remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I 
>>> will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user 
>>> guide so will look at it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the 
 US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from 
 someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want 
 to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on 
 whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that company in order 
 to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum 
 display, no matter how good they are.
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
> ET,
> 
> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
>> indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
>> Appreciate your input.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants 
>>> to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
 
   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
 line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I 
 can get one to look at.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
> now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display 
> with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
> generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability 
> and will have some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of 
> mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes 
> it a lot.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,

Re: Braille Displays

[Rebecca Sabo]

Hi all 
Is their a cheaper braille display to buy anywhere ?
Becky 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
> my experiences.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to 
>> be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that 
>> hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new 
>> Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
>>> who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
>>> 
>>>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
>>> remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I 
>>> will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user 
>>> guide so will look at it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the 
 US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from 
 someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want 
 to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on 
 whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that company in order 
 to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum 
 display, no matter how good they are.
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
> ET,
> 
> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
>> indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
>> Appreciate your input.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants 
>>> to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
 
   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
 line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I 
 can get one to look at.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
> now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display 
> with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
> generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability 
> and will have some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of 
> mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes 
> it a lot.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. 
>> But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products 
>> pile up.  I think the last update is from 2015.
>> 
>>   There is 

Re: Braille Displays

[Caitlyn Furness]

I used my husband’s focus 80 a few years ago.  It was actually kind of clunky.  
My fav is 40 cells, although I got used to using 32 when I used my braille 
sense plus for book reading.  Now I just have my brailliant bi 40.  the BSP is 
still here, but the charger is broken so I can’t get it charged reliabley 
anymore and Hims won’t service it since it’s 11 years old now..  I hope the 
brailliant works for a long time yet, because the cells are nice, it connects 
easily to both the mac and the i phone, and because shopping for one of these 
animals can be daunting!

Cait


> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Really?  I'm kind of intrigued by the prospect of a multiline display.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:41 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A pen with 12 cells, cute. The BS Plus with 32 cells made reading of Bard 
>> books not so fun. So I too will never settle for less than 40. I also do not 
>> think I would go for a multi line display but would like to check one out 
>> just for grins.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/29/2018 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> There is a twelve.  It's called the BraillePen.  You couldn't give me one 
>>> of those things for free.  I don't even really like having 32 cells.  
>>> Anything under forty is just too small, IMHO.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything 
 less than 40 is out, even 32.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for 
> me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots 
>> on it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I 
>> thought I would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it 
>> exclusively now. I still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to 
>> scroll based on your finger position is game changing for me. It works 
>> anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is definitely not as good on 
>> the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work arounds I have to 
>> do on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active tactile control 
>> or whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been 
>> a brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
>> then--except eat other companies.
>> 
>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
>> independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot 
>> down notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or 
>> a computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
>> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar 
>> and all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word 
>> processor is non-negotiable for me.
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions 

Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

the scrolling works great with iphone, and mac.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:49 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews I 
had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
software.

-- 
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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

I would actually be interested in hearing more about that with the active 
braille devices. I was under the very strong impression, based on interviews I 
had heard with Earl Harrison, and I think somethings I have seen written 
elsewhere, that it did not work with iPhones or Macs. Only with a special 
software.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have never
>> gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either scrolls too fast,
>> or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.  
> 
> 
> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech displays is that
> it senses the location of your fingers, so the scrolling isn't based on a
> timer.
> 
> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly works on
> Apple devices.
> 
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Re: muted vo

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

TrackPad Commander needs to be enabled in order for that gesture to work.  Hold 
down the VO keys (ctrl and Option) and twist two fingers on the TrackPad like 
you're turning up the volume knob of a radio, then try the three finger 
double-tap.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 13:13, wayne coles  wrote:

hello i have muted vo and the track pad commander must be turned off because i 
thought it was a three finger double tap but that does not seem to work so any 
help please

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Re: muted vo

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

It’s three finger double  tap

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Apr 2018, at 8:13 pm, wayne coles  wrote:
> 
> hello i have muted vo and the track pad commander must be turned off because 
> i thought it was a three finger double tap but that does not seem to work so 
> any help please
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

I wish those devices had internal memory, but even so, I may check one out if I 
get to CSUN next year.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:20 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have never
>> gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either scrolls too fast,
>> or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.  
> 
> 
> The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech displays is that
> it senses the location of your fingers, so the scrolling isn't based on a
> timer.
> 
> It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly works on
> Apple devices.
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Donna Goodin  wrote:
> You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have never
> gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either scrolls too fast,
> or I end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.  


The advantage of the Active Tactile Control in some HandyTech displays is that
it senses the location of your fingers, so the scrolling isn't based on a
timer.

It's interesting to note from this discussion that it reportedly works on
Apple devices.

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

You know, I've always thought that autoscroll sounded cool, but have never 
gotten used to using it.  It always seems like it either scrolls too fast, or I 
end up sitting there waiting for it to scroll.  Maybe it'd work if you removed 
all hard returns so that all lines are of the same length, but I prefer to have 
the text formatted.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:09 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I don’t own a focus display. I was thinking about it. But not in the 
> immediatenear future. What I would really like would be to see something that 
> had some internal memory as well as an auto scroll feature that would work 
> with devices including PCs, Max, and phones. That new human where display 
> looks interesting, but it really doesn’t have enough cells. And their other 
> displays are still the old kind that are dumb and only do one connection at a 
> time. They need to upgrade that line.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Christine,
>> 
>> Can you actually store files on the display, or do you store them on the SD 
>> card?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Christine Grassman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
>>> conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is 
>>> merely if you want to use it as a stand-alone.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
 
 Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not 
 be a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what 
 kind. Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. 
 Look at all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

The BrailleMe sounds even more limited than the other displays we have been 
talking about.  I wonder what these people were thinking. Here's info:
http://innovisiontech.co/brailleme/  
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Maria Reyes  wrote:
> 
> Another display coming out is the BrailleMe.
>  
> Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   > on behalf of Donna Goodin 
> >
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 1:55:38 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>  
> They're actually big enough to do what they say, that is true.  But can and 
> will aren't the same thing.  For your sake, though, I hope that they do.
> 
> You know, when I was using HIMS products, I always had very good customer 
> service from them.  But that's been a few years now.  I haven't really 
> followed what's going on, but I've heard that things have changed there.
> 
> Cheers,
> Donna
> > On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Mary Otten  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Well, one of the advantages of a company like vfo is you figure they’re 
> > actually going to do what they say. Smaller companies have problems. Look 
> > at what happened to Baum. I am sure they’re going to come out with that 
> > functionality with the braille note taking. The fact that you can’t do 
> > wireless transfers is a drag. And I have not heard them say that this is in 
> > the plan. On the other hand the handitechdistribution in the United States 
> > is now handled through hims. So you got the braille edge and now these high 
> > priced handitechdisplays. And you sort of wonder how long that is going to 
> > hold up. Hims is a big company, but I’ve heard enough stuff about Customer 
> > Service in the US that would make me think twice or three times before I 
> > went that way.
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Donna Goodin  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as 
> >> expensive as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be 
> >> implemented in the future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned 
> >> that way. 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  >>> > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking 
> >>> ability is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release 
> >>> this year.  Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get 
> >>> notes you take off of the display and onto your other devices is via an 
> >>> SD card. In other words, no direct connectivity for transferring things.
> >>> 
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> 
>  On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin   > wrote:
>  
>  The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
>  paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
>  Donna
> > On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Donna,
> > I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
> > 
> > Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
> > 
> > This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille 
> > display these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay 
> > away from.
> > 
> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> > ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> > Many believe that we have been visited
> > in the past. What if it were true?
> > 
> >> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> >> Hi ET,
> >> Well, others have answered your first question. 
> >> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and 
> >> file manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the 
> >> Braille Sense devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my 
> >> phone or Mac.  I guess the three things that bug me most about the 
> >> Edge are: the gross under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky 
> >> size--admittedly I am probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that 
> >> you have to use an SD card to transfer files.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >> 
> >>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  >>> > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Donna,
> >>> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell 

muted vo

[wayne coles]

hello i have muted vo and the track pad commander must be turned off 
because i thought it was a three finger double tap but that does not 
seem to work so any help please


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Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

I don’t own a focus display. I was thinking about it. But not in the 
immediatenear future. What I would really like would be to see something that 
had some internal memory as well as an auto scroll feature that would work with 
devices including PCs, Max, and phones. That new human where display looks 
interesting, but it really doesn’t have enough cells. And their other displays 
are still the old kind that are dumb and only do one connection at a time. They 
need to upgrade that line.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Christine,
> 
> Can you actually store files on the display, or do you store them on the SD 
> card?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Christine Grassman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
>> conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is merely 
>> if you want to use it as a stand-alone.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not 
>>> be a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what 
>>> kind. Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. 
>>> Look at all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
>>> 
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RE: Braille Displays

[Maria Reyes]

Another display coming out is the BrailleMe.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10




From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Donna Goodin 
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 1:55:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

They're actually big enough to do what they say, that is true.  But can and 
will aren't the same thing.  For your sake, though, I hope that they do.

You know, when I was using HIMS products, I always had very good customer 
service from them.  But that's been a few years now.  I haven't really followed 
what's going on, but I've heard that things have changed there.

Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> Well, one of the advantages of a company like vfo is you figure they’re 
> actually going to do what they say. Smaller companies have problems. Look at 
> what happened to Baum. I am sure they’re going to come out with that 
> functionality with the braille note taking. The fact that you can’t do 
> wireless transfers is a drag. And I have not heard them say that this is in 
> the plan. On the other hand the handitechdistribution in the United States is 
> now handled through hims. So you got the braille edge and now these high 
> priced handitechdisplays. And you sort of wonder how long that is going to 
> hold up. Hims is a big company, but I’ve heard enough stuff about Customer 
> Service in the US that would make me think twice or three times before I went 
> that way.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>
>> this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as 
>> expensive as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be 
>> implemented in the future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned 
>> that way. 
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>>
>>> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking 
>>> ability is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this 
>>> year.  Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you 
>>> take off of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In 
>>> other words, no direct connectivity for transferring things.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

 The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
 paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>
> Donna,
> I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
>
> Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
>
> This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille 
> display these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay 
> away from.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
>> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi ET,
>> Well, others have answered your first question. 
>> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and 
>> file manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille 
>> Sense devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac. 
>>  I guess the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross 
>> under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am 
>> probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card 
>> to transfer files.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>>
>>> Donna,
>>> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
>>> little I know? (smiles)
>>>
>>> What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
>>> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
>>> Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to 
>>> basic things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to 
>>> use the display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is 
>>> why the concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so 
>>> attractive now.
>>>
>>> While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take 
>>> a closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is 
>>> not happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but 
>>> will have another opportunity.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many 

Re: Braille Displays

['Peggy' via MacVisionaries]

I'm waiting for the Blitab if it ever comes out, or maybe the Canute. Would 
love a multi line display.
Peggy and Dixie Marie

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:55 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

They're actually big enough to do what they say, that is true.  But can and 
will aren't the same thing.  For your sake, though, I hope that they do.

You know, when I was using HIMS products, I always had very good customer 
service from them.  But that's been a few years now.  I haven't really followed 
what's going on, but I've heard that things have changed there.

Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, one of the advantages of a company like vfo is you figure they’re 
> actually going to do what they say. Smaller companies have problems. Look at 
> what happened to Baum. I am sure they’re going to come out with that 
> functionality with the braille note taking. The fact that you can’t do 
> wireless transfers is a drag. And I have not heard them say that this is in 
> the plan. On the other hand the handitechdistribution in the United States is 
> now handled through hims. So you got the braille edge and now these high 
> priced handitechdisplays. And you sort of wonder how long that is going to 
> hold up. Hims is a big company, but I’ve heard enough stuff about Customer 
> Service in the US that would make me think twice or three times before I went 
> that way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as 
>> expensive as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be 
>> implemented in the future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned 
>> that way. 
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking 
>>> ability is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this 
>>> year.  Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you 
>>> take off of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In 
>>> other words, no direct connectivity for transferring things.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
 paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
> 
> Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
> 
> This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille 
> display these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay 
> away from.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi ET,
>> Well, others have answered your first question. 
>> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and 
>> file manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille 
>> Sense devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac. 
>>  I guess the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross 
>> under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am 
>> probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card 
>> to transfer files.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
>>> little I know? (smiles)
>>> 
>>> What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
>>> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
>>> Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to 
>>> basic things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to 
>>> use the display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is 
>>> why the concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so 
>>> attractive now.
>>> 
>>> While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take 
>>> a closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is 
>>> not happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but 
>>> will have another opportunity.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Yep. 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Too bad.  That's how the Edge is too.  I think I want a display that can 
actually store documents, i.e. has internal storage built in.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Christine Grassman  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On the Sd card.On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Christine,
>> 
>> Can you actually store files on the display, or do you store them on the SD 
>> card?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Christine Grassman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
>>> conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is 
>>> merely if you want to use it as a stand-alone.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
 
 Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not 
 be a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what 
 kind. Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. 
 Look at all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

> On the Sd card.On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Christine,
> 
> Can you actually store files on the display, or do you store them on the SD 
> card?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Christine Grassman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
>> conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is merely 
>> if you want to use it as a stand-alone.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not 
>>> be a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what 
>>> kind. Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. 
>>> Look at all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Christine,

Can you actually store files on the display, or do you store them on the SD 
card?
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Christine Grassman  
> wrote:
> 
> Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
> conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is merely 
> if you want to use it as a stand-alone.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not be 
>> a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what kind. 
>> Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. Look at 
>> all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

They're actually big enough to do what they say, that is true.  But can and 
will aren't the same thing.  For your sake, though, I hope that they do.

You know, when I was using HIMS products, I always had very good customer 
service from them.  But that's been a few years now.  I haven't really followed 
what's going on, but I've heard that things have changed there.

Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, one of the advantages of a company like vfo is you figure they’re 
> actually going to do what they say. Smaller companies have problems. Look at 
> what happened to Baum. I am sure they’re going to come out with that 
> functionality with the braille note taking. The fact that you can’t do 
> wireless transfers is a drag. And I have not heard them say that this is in 
> the plan. On the other hand the handitechdistribution in the United States is 
> now handled through hims. So you got the braille edge and now these high 
> priced handitechdisplays. And you sort of wonder how long that is going to 
> hold up. Hims is a big company, but I’ve heard enough stuff about Customer 
> Service in the US that would make me think twice or three times before I went 
> that way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as 
>> expensive as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be 
>> implemented in the future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned 
>> that way. 
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking 
>>> ability is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this 
>>> year.  Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you 
>>> take off of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In 
>>> other words, no direct connectivity for transferring things.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
 paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
> 
> Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
> 
> This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille 
> display these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay 
> away from.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi ET,
>> Well, others have answered your first question. 
>> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and 
>> file manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille 
>> Sense devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac. 
>>  I guess the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross 
>> under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am 
>> probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card 
>> to transfer files.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
>>> little I know? (smiles)
>>> 
>>> What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
>>> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
>>> Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to 
>>> basic things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to 
>>> use the display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is 
>>> why the concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so 
>>> attractive now.
>>> 
>>> While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take 
>>> a closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is 
>>> not happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but 
>>> will have another opportunity.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's 
 been a brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
 then--except eat other companies.
 One thing I would 

Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

Well, one of the advantages of a company like vfo is you figure they’re 
actually going to do what they say. Smaller companies have problems. Look at 
what happened to Baum. I am sure they’re going to come out with that 
functionality with the braille note taking. The fact that you can’t do wireless 
transfers is a drag. And I have not heard them say that this is in the plan. On 
the other hand the handitechdistribution in the United States is now handled 
through hims. So you got the braille edge and now these high priced 
handitechdisplays. And you sort of wonder how long that is going to hold up. 
Hims is a big company, but I’ve heard enough stuff about Customer Service in 
the US that would make me think twice or three times before I went that way.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as 
> expensive as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be 
> implemented in the future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned 
> that way. 
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking 
>> ability is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this 
>> year.  Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you 
>> take off of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In 
>> other words, no direct connectivity for transferring things.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
>>> paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
>>> Donna
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Donna,
 I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
 
 Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
 
 This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille display 
 these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay away from.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Hi ET,
> Well, others have answered your first question. 
> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
> manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
> devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I 
> guess the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross 
> under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am 
> probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card 
> to transfer files.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
>> little I know? (smiles)
>> 
>> What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
>> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
>> Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic 
>> things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to use the 
>> display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is why the 
>> concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
>> 
>> While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
>> closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
>> happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will 
>> have another opportunity.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been 
>>> a brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
>>> then--except eat other companies.
>>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the 
>>> notetaker component.  I really like having a display that functions as 
>>> an independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot 
>>> down notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or 
>>> a computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
>>> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar 
>>> and all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word 
>>> processor is non-negotiable for me.
>>> Cheers,

Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

All things being equal, I would prefer 40 cells as well; however, it just isn’t 
in the old budget. Also, I love true portability. I am looking forward to 
Bristol’s Canute 40-line display; this is something I have dreamed of having 
for years. My reading speed just cries out for it. :)
Christine


> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:41 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   A pen with 12 cells, cute. The BS Plus with 32 cells made reading of Bard 
> books not so fun. So I too will never settle for less than 40. I also do not 
> think I would go for a multi line display but would like to check one out 
> just for grins.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> There is a twelve.  It's called the BraillePen.  You couldn't give me one of 
>> those things for free.  I don't even really like having 32 cells.  Anything 
>> under forty is just too small, IMHO.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything 
>>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for 
 me.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots 
> on it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I 
> thought I would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it 
> exclusively now. I still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to 
> scroll based on your finger position is game changing for me. It works 
> anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is definitely not as good on 
> the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work arounds I have to do 
> on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active tactile control or 
> whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
> then--except eat other companies.
> 
> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
> independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down 
> notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a 
> computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and 
> all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word processor 
> is non-negotiable for me.
> Cheers,
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

Also, as far as Active Braille, Actilino, etc., there is Bluetooth 
conductivity, and you can read files that way as well. The SD card is merely if 
you want to use it as a stand-alone.


> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:42 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not be 
> a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what kind. 
> Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. Look at 
> all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Really?  I'm kind of intrigued by the prospect of a multiline display.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:41 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   A pen with 12 cells, cute. The BS Plus with 32 cells made reading of Bard 
> books not so fun. So I too will never settle for less than 40. I also do not 
> think I would go for a multi line display but would like to check one out 
> just for grins.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> There is a twelve.  It's called the BraillePen.  You couldn't give me one of 
>> those things for free.  I don't even really like having 32 cells.  Anything 
>> under forty is just too small, IMHO.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything 
>>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for 
 me.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots 
> on it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I 
> thought I would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it 
> exclusively now. I still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to 
> scroll based on your finger position is game changing for me. It works 
> anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is definitely not as good on 
> the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work arounds I have to do 
> on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active tactile control or 
> whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
> then--except eat other companies.
> 
> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
> independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down 
> notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a 
> computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and 
> all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word processor 
> is non-negotiable for me.
> Cheers,
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

Nope, micro sd cards aren’t going anywhere.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not be a 
full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what kind. 
Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. Look at all 
the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

thanks, Alia.  This is good info to have.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:38 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I’m not jason, but here is my two cents. you do have to use a sd card to 
> transfer, but I had to use a usb stick for vu so that’s no problem to me. no 
> I cannot use the file transfer program, but I have no problem converting 
> documents to brf and putting them on the card. It does remember your last 
> reading position, yes.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Jason,
> 
> I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and strongly 
> disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be connected to the 
> computer, and you used some program under Windows Utilities I think, like 
> maybe VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does one currently move files 
> back and forth between the displays you mention and a Mac or PC?
> 
> The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place you 
> were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were placed 
> at the beginning.  Is that still the case?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> E.T.  wrote:
>>> How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
>>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
>> 
>> 
>> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if you're
>> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the Braille
>> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
>> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

   A pen with 12 cells, cute. The BS Plus with 32 cells made reading of 
Bard books not so fun. So I too will never settle for less than 40. I 
also do not think I would go for a multi line display but would like to 
check one out just for grins.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

There is a twelve.  It's called the BraillePen.  You couldn't give me one of 
those things for free.  I don't even really like having 32 cells.  Anything 
under forty is just too small, IMHO.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything less 
than 40 is out, even 32.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:

I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on it 
are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought I would 
use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I still love 
the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your finger position 
is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is 
definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work 
arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active 
tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.

One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

I hope you're right.  But I'd definitely feel better having USB as an option.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not be 
> a full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what kind. 
> Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. Look at 
> all the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> That's very dated tech.  I would be worried that one of these days SD cards 
>> are going to disappear altogether.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:35 PM, Christine Grassman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I move files from my Mac to the SD card. 
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Jason,
 
 I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and 
 strongly disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be 
 connected to the computer, and you used some program under Windows 
 Utilities I think, like maybe VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does 
 one currently move files back and forth between the displays you mention 
 and a Mac or PC?
 
 The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place 
 you were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were 
 placed at the beginning.  Is that still the case?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> E.T.  wrote:
>> How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
> 
> 
> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if 
> you're
> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the 
> Braille
> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
> 
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> Visionaries list.
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>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

That is a bummer, Les. I assume that it will only work with Jaws. Since I 
really don’t like using jaws, that would be a bummer for me.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:22 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> Unfortunately, auto school does not work with the iPhone.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Les,
>> Does auto scroll work outside of jaws? That is, on a Mac or an iPhone?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:18 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>>  
>>> A couple of months ago, I purchased the Fifth Generation Focus for the 
>>> reasons you stated.  I like being able to quickly switch between my iPhone 
>>> and PC with this display.  Regardless of the company one chooses to work 
>>> with, there are pros and cons with all of them.  I chose the Focus as I am 
>>> confident Freedom Scientific will be around to support this device.
>>>  
>>> Les
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:56 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>>>  
>>> One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
>>> durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is 
>>> sturdier build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a metal 
>>> housing I believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he is a 
>>> jaws user. I don’t know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.
>>> Mary
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>  
>>> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Mary and Jason,
>>> >   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
>>> >
>>> >   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
>>> > line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can 
>>> > get one to look at.
>>> >
>>> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> > Many believe that we have been visited
>>> > in the past. What if it were true?
>>> >
>>> >> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> >> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now 
>>> >> out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a 
>>> >> big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation 
>>> >> focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and will have 
>>> >> some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine just got 
>>> >> one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Donna,
>>> >>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But 
>>> >>> I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  
>>> >>> I think the last update is from 2015.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
>>> >>> desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too 
>>> >>> so will go through it over the next week or so.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
>>> >>> does not decrease in quality of product and support.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> >>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> >>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> >>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> >>>
>>>  On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>>  Hey ET,
>>>  I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, 
>>>  and was never able to sell my Edge.
>>>  This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
>>>  bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently 
>>>  David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as 
>>>  a side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of 
>>>  knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as 
>>>  getting tech support from the company.
>>>  That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
>>>  Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with 
>>>  the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but it's like HIMS  
>>>  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It has all these 
>>>  function keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The apps 
>>>  are also very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and 
>>>  file manager, and a calculator, but it's all kind of like something 
>>>  you'd find on an old flip phone.
>>>  The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
>>>  reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer. 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

this is just my opinion, of course, but I would never by anything as expensive 
as a braille display on the promise that a feature will be implemented in the 
future.  Many of us--or at least I--have gotten burned that way. 
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking ability 
> is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this year.  
> Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you take off 
> of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In other words, 
> no direct connectivity for transferring things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't 
>> paid much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
>>> 
>>> This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille display 
>>> these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay away from.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi ET,
 Well, others have answered your first question. 
 Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
 manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
 devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I 
 guess the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross 
 under utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am 
 probably spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card 
 to transfer files.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
> little I know? (smiles)
> 
> What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, 
> I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic 
> things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to use the 
> display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is why the 
> concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
> 
> While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
> closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
> happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will 
> have another opportunity.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been 
>> a brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
>> then--except eat other companies.
>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
>> independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot 
>> down notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or 
>> a computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
>> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar 
>> and all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word 
>> processor is non-negotiable for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
>>> Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
>>> including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes 
>>> I will certainly share my experiences.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 ET,
 I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what 
 used to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of 
 theirs, but that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you 
 check out the new Focus, please do share your impressions with the 
 list.

Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

I don’t think those cards are going to disappear anytime soon. It may not be a 
full-size SD card. It’s some kind of ST card, and I’m not sure what kind. 
Certain flavors of SD cards are going to be around for a long time. Look at all 
the phones that still use them, plus cameras etc.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> That's very dated tech.  I would be worried that one of these days SD cards 
> are going to disappear altogether.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:35 PM, Christine Grassman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I move files from my Mac to the SD card. 
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jason,
>>> 
>>> I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and 
>>> strongly disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be 
>>> connected to the computer, and you used some program under Windows 
>>> Utilities I think, like maybe VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does 
>>> one currently move files back and forth between the displays you mention 
>>> and a Mac or PC?
>>> 
>>> The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place 
>>> you were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were 
>>> placed at the beginning.  Is that still the case?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 E.T.  wrote:
> How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
> less than 40 is out, even 32.
 
 
 It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if 
 you're
 interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the 
 Braille
 Star, are both 40-cell displays.
 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

As of now, the focus only has a Calendar and o’clock, but note taking ability 
is coming they say, currently under testing and do for release this year.  
Unfortunately, at least as I understand it, the way to get notes you take off 
of the display and onto your other devices is via an SD card. In other words, 
no direct connectivity for transferring things.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't paid 
> much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>  I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
>> 
>>  Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
>> 
>>  This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille display 
>> these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay away from.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> Hi ET,
>>> Well, others have answered your first question. 
>>> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
>>> manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
>>> devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I guess 
>>> the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross under 
>>> utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am probably 
>>> spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card to transfer 
>>> files.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Donna,
  Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
 little I know? (smiles)
 
  What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
 Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, 
 I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic 
 things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to use the 
 display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is why the 
 concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
 
  While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
 closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
 happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will 
 have another opportunity.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
> then--except eat other companies.
> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
> independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down 
> notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a 
> computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't 
> have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and 
> all that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word processor 
> is non-negotiable for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>  This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
>> Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
>> including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I 
>> will certainly share my experiences.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what 
>>> used to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of 
>>> theirs, but that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you 
>>> check out the new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Mary,
  I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
 snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
 
  I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
 don't remember what brand that one is but I passed 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

That's very dated tech.  I would be worried that one of these days SD cards are 
going to disappear altogether.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:35 PM, Christine Grassman  
> wrote:
> 
> I move files from my Mac to the SD card. 
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Jason,
>> 
>> I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and strongly 
>> disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be connected to the 
>> computer, and you used some program under Windows Utilities I think, like 
>> maybe VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does one currently move files 
>> back and forth between the displays you mention and a Mac or PC?
>> 
>> The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place you 
>> were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were placed 
>> at the beginning.  Is that still the case?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> E.T.  wrote:
 How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
 less than 40 is out, even 32.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if 
>>> you're
>>> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the 
>>> Braille
>>> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

I’m not jason, but here is my two cents. you do have to use a sd card to 
transfer, but I had to use a usb stick for vu so that’s no problem to me. no I 
cannot use the file transfer program, but I have no problem converting 
documents to brf and putting them on the card. It does remember your last 
reading position, yes.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Jason,

I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and strongly 
disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be connected to the 
computer, and you used some program under Windows Utilities I think, like maybe 
VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does one currently move files back and 
forth between the displays you mention and a Mac or PC?

The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place you 
were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were placed at 
the beginning.  Is that still the case?
Cheers,
Donna

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> E.T.  wrote:
>>  How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
> 
> 
> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if you're
> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the Braille
> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

I move files from my Mac to the SD card. 

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Jason,
> 
> I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and strongly 
> disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be connected to the 
> computer, and you used some program under Windows Utilities I think, like 
> maybe VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does one currently move files 
> back and forth between the displays you mention and a Mac or PC?
> 
> The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place you 
> were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were placed 
> at the beginning.  Is that still the case?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> E.T.  wrote:
>>>  How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
>>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
>> 
>> 
>> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if you're
>> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the Braille
>> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
>> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

The focus used to be dumb.  So far as I know, it still is, but I haven't paid 
much attention  to it so I could be wrong.
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:32 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)
> 
>   Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.
> 
>   This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille display 
> these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay away from.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi ET,
>> Well, others have answered your first question. 
>> Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
>> manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
>> devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I guess 
>> the three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross under 
>> utilization of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am probably 
>> spoiled by the VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card to transfer 
>> files.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>  
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>>   Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
>>> little I know? (smiles)
>>> 
>>>   What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
>>> Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, I 
>>> can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic things. I 
>>> read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to use the display for 
>>> backup if something happens to my hearing. That is why the concept of 
>>> access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
>>> 
>>>   While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
>>> closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
>>> happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will 
>>> have another opportunity.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
 brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
 then--except eat other companies.
 One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
 component.  I really like having a display that functions as an 
 independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down 
 notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a 
 computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display that didn't have 
 a built-in word processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all 
 that because I do all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is 
 non-negotiable for me.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
> Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
> including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I 
> will certainly share my experiences.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used 
>> to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but 
>> that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the 
>> new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
>>> snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
>>> 
>>>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
>>> don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who 
>>> knows, maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of 
>>> interest, got the user guide so will look at it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in 
 the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used 
 display from 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Donna,
   I am absorbing way too much on a Sunday. (smiles)

   Oh I agree about having to use the SD card for the Edge.

   This brings up a question. Is there such a thing as a dumb braille 
display these days? One that is strictly a display? That I want to stay 
away from.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 10:21 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hi ET,

Well, others have answered your first question. 

Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I guess the 
three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross under utilization 
of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am probably spoiled by the 
VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card to transfer files.
Cheers,
Donna
  

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Donna,
   Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what little I 
know? (smiles)

   What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a Brailesense 
Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, I can do heavy 
work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic things. I read a lot of 
braille books on the Edge, and want to use the display for backup if something 
happens to my hearing. That is why the concept of access to multiple Bluetooth 
devices is so attractive now.

   While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will have 
another opportunity.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.
One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Donna,
   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? But 
we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share my 
experiences.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to be 
Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that hasn't 
been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new Focus, please 
do share your impressions with the list.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Mary,
   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.

   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I will 
keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user guide so will 
look at it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the US, 
you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from someone. I 
assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want to say that for 
sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on whether somebody is 
willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it viable. If I 
were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter how good 
they are.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I suggest you 
email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com 
.  Alternatively, you could reach out to him 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Jason,

I demoed a HandyTech display a long time ago--like around 2007--and strongly 
disliked the file transfer protocol.  The display had to be connected to the 
computer, and you used some program under Windows Utilities I think, like maybe 
VTerm?  It was slow and annoying.  How does one currently move files back and 
forth between the displays you mention and a Mac or PC?

The other thing I remember is that you couldn't open a file to the place you 
were when you last closed it.  Every time you opened a file, you were placed at 
the beginning.  Is that still the case?
Cheers,
Donna

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> E.T.  wrote:
>>   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
>> less than 40 is out, even 32.
> 
> 
> It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if you're
> interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the Braille
> Star, are both 40-cell displays.
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

frankly all I do is read books either on kindle, bookshare, or in standalone 
mode. even with the VU I never am able to get an adequate picture of a 
document. I’ll have to wait for a full page display for that.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

What do you do if you actually want to be able to see the way a document is 
laid out?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

What do you do if you actually want to be able to see the way a document is 
laid out?
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:21 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> it really isn’t that big a deal with the way it scrolls. I don’t miss them.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

There is a twelve.  It's called the BraillePen.  You couldn't give me one of 
those things for free.  I don't even really like having 32 cells.  Anything 
under forty is just too small, IMHO.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything less 
> than 40 is out, even 32.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on 
>>> it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought 
>>> I would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I 
>>> still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your 
>>> finger position is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. 
>>> I *love* it. It is definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but 
>>> I don’t mind the work arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille 
>>> onto it. the Active tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is 
>>> amazing.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
>>> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
>>> then--except eat other companies.
>>> 
>>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
>>> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
>>> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
>>> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
>>> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
>>> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
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Re: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?

[Donna Goodin]

Hmm. Interesting.  I don't think my husband will ever get cellular on his 
watch, but I'm tempted by it.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:02 PM, david.tanner...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I will only speak for AT since that is who I use.  They add another line 
> and charge you $10.00 a month for the line.  They wave installation and setup 
> charges for setting up the new line as a part of their deal with Apple to 
> sell the Apple watch.  I baught my watch at Best Buy, but used AT as my 
> carrier, and financed the watch on my AT Next account.  The watch came to 
> $20.00 per month for 20 months in addition to the $10.00 for the cell line.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 6:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?
> 
> I figured, Simon.  I couldn't imagine that a cell provider would miss a 
> chance to get a few more $$. lol Cheers, Donna
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:45 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> I can't say exactly but I believe some of the US mobile providers had 
>> a plan for something like 5 dollars as an additional charge to the 
>> existing plan for the phone, But yes be the answer,
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 2:07 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> My husband is looking at getting an Apple Watch.  I'm assuming the answer to 
>> the question in the subject line is yes, but thought I would check just in 
>> case.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Mary,

Unfortunately, auto school does not work with the iPhone.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> Does auto scroll work outside of jaws? That is, on a Mac or an iPhone?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:18 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>>  
>> A couple of months ago, I purchased the Fifth Generation Focus for the 
>> reasons you stated.  I like being able to quickly switch between my iPhone 
>> and PC with this display.  Regardless of the company one chooses to work 
>> with, there are pros and cons with all of them.  I chose the Focus as I am 
>> confident Freedom Scientific will be around to support this device.
>>  
>> Les
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Mary Otten
>> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:56 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>>  
>> One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
>> durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is 
>> sturdier build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a metal 
>> housing I believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he is a jaws 
>> user. I don’t know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.
>> Mary
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>  
>> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> >
>> > Mary and Jason,
>> >   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
>> >
>> >   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line 
>> > held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get 
>> > one to look at.
>> >
>> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> > Many believe that we have been visited
>> > in the past. What if it were true?
>> >
>> >> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> >> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now 
>> >> out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big 
>> >> learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation focus 
>> >> if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and will have some 
>> >> notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine just got one and 
>> >> says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Donna,
>> >>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But 
>> >>> I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  I 
>> >>> think the last update is from 2015.
>> >>>
>> >>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
>> >>> desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
>> >>>
>> >>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too 
>> >>> so will go through it over the next week or so.
>> >>>
>> >>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
>> >>> does not decrease in quality of product and support.
>> >>>
>> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> >>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> >>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> >>>
>>  On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>  Hey ET,
>>  I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, 
>>  and was never able to sell my Edge.
>>  This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
>>  bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently 
>>  David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as a 
>>  side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of 
>>  knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as 
>>  getting tech support from the company.
>>  That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
>>  Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with 
>>  the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but it's like HIMS  
>>  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It has all these function 
>>  keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The apps are also 
>>  very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and file 
>>  manager, and a calculator, but it's all kind of like something you'd 
>>  find on an old flip phone.
>>  The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
>>  reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed out, can 
>>  connect to multiple bluetooth devices.
>>  The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when the 
>>  Edge came out it felt relatively small, but it is very heavy and blocky 
>>  compared to the VU, which is small, and light, and sleek.
>>  The VU has a significantly higher learning 

Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

it really isn’t that big a deal with the way it scrolls. I don’t miss them.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Hi ET,

Well, others have answered your first question. 

Like I said, the two things I most care about are word processor and file 
manager.  All the social media stuff and all that that the Braille Sense 
devices have has little appeal, as I do that from my phone or Mac.  I guess the 
three things that bug me most about the Edge are: the gross under utilization 
of the function  keys, the bulky size--admittedly I am probably spoiled by the 
VU--and the fact that you have to use an SD card to transfer files.
Cheers,
Donna
 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:53 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what little 
> I know? (smiles)
> 
>   What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a Brailesense 
> Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, I can do heavy 
> work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic things. I read a lot of 
> braille books on the Edge, and want to use the display for backup if 
> something happens to my hearing. That is why the concept of access to 
> multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
> 
>   While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
> closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
> happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will have 
> another opportunity.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
>> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except 
>> eat other companies.
>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
>> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
>> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
>> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
>> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
>> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
>>> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
>>> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
>>> my experiences.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 ET,
 I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used 
 to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but 
 that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the 
 new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Mary,
>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff 
> on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
> 
>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
> don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, 
> maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the 
> user guide so will look at it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in 
>> the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display 
>> from someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t 
>> want to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really 
>> depends on whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that 
>> company in order to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I 
>> would not buy a baum display, no matter how good they are.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> 
>>> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this 
>>> I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
>>> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, 
>>> you could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna

Re: Braille Displays

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

E.T.  wrote:
>How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything
> less than 40 is out, even 32.


It's the same for me, as I read and edit text extensively. However, if you're
interested in the Active Tactile Control, the Active Braille, and the Braille
Star, are both 40-cell displays.

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Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

In that case, the Active Braille has 40. Just a big Actilino, really.

http://attriumph.com/braille-products/handytech/active-braille 





> On Apr 29, 2018, at 1:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes anything less 
> than 40 is out, even 32.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on 
>>> it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought 
>>> I would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I 
>>> still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your 
>>> finger position is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. 
>>> I *love* it. It is definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but 
>>> I don’t mind the work arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille 
>>> onto it. the Active tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is 
>>> amazing.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
>>> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since 
>>> then--except eat other companies.
>>> 
>>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
>>> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
>>> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
>>> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
>>> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
>>> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
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Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

   How about 14? And maybe even a 12? I think there is a 12. Yes 
anything less than 40 is out, even 32.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 10:12 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:

I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on it 
are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought I would 
use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I still love 
the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your finger position 
is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is 
definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work 
arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active 
tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.

One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,

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Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Yikes!  Having only sixteen cells would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:38 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on 
> it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought I 
> would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I 
> still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your 
> finger position is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. I 
> *love* it. It is definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but I 
> don’t mind the work arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille 
> onto it. the Active tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is 
> amazing.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except 
> eat other companies.
> 
> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
> Cheers,
> 
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muted vo

[wayne coles]

hello how can i unmute vo please by accident i muted it and i dont think 
my track pad is working i thought it was a three finger double tap but 
it is not working thanks for any help


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Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

   Ok thanks. Looks like I will be more informed now than ever before.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:56 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:

ET

Focus is what Freedom Scientific has called its Braille displays for 
several years (maybe a decade).


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:53 PM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
little I know? (smiles)


  What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to 
basic things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to 
use the display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is 
why the concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so 
attractive now.


  While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will 
take a closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new 
VUs is not happening, I wold have spent more time with the other 
displays but will have another opportunity.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's 
been a brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything 
since then--except eat other companies.
One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the 
notetaker component.  I really like having a display that functions 
as an independent notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just 
to jot down notes, or to read books when I don't want to be tied to a 
phone or a computer.  I would never again purchase a braille display 
that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I don't care about 
having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my phone. 
 But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. 
Yes I will certainly share my experiences.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what 
used to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of 
theirs, but that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If 
you check out the new Focus, please do share your impressions with 
the list.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Mary,
  I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.


  I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. 
I don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But 
who knows, maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of 
interest, got the user guide so will look at it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you 
live in the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy 
a used display from someone. I assume the same might be true for 
Europe, but I wouldn’t want to say that for sure. This whole 
thing is sad, but it really depends on whether somebody is 
willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it 
viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum 
display, no matter how good they are.

Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info 
on this I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I 
have for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com 
 . 
 Alternatively, you could reach out to him on the VU list.  I 
believe he still reads it.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T.  
> wrote:


Donna,
  You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. 
That is indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus 

RE: Braille Displays

[david.tanner100]

Remember, GW Micro was first baught out by AI Squared.  They only became a part 
of VFO when VFO purchased AI Squared.
 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 12:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

Political? Sure sounds like it. I had no idea that VFO took over all those 
companies. Kind of surprised that GW Micro is under that umbrella.

It makes me nervous because this changes the power exerted by mergers like 
this. At the same time though, if done right, resources could be maximized. 
Fingers crossed.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:39 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
> Wow, now we are getting political. VFO owns the companies that are now 
> or were formally called:
> 
> • Freedom Scientific
> • AI Squared
> •GW Miccro
> • The Paciello Group
> •  Enhanced Vision
> • Optelec
> 
> 
> So what Blind technology firms are still out there?
> 
> • HiMS
> • Humanware
> • A company with Bristol in its name that is about to create a 40 x 9 
> refreshable display
> 
> Anything else that is still actively competing with the Shark company?
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:27 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>>
>> Donna,
>>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
>> Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
>> including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. 
>> Yes I will certainly share my experiences.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>>
>> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what 
>>> used to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of 
>>> theirs, but that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If 
>>> you check out the new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T. > wrote:

 Mary,
   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
 snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.

   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. 
 I don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who 
 knows, maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of 
 interest, got the user guide so will look at it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
 true?

 On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live 
> in the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used 
> display from someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, 
> but I wouldn’t want to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, 
> but it really depends on whether somebody is willing to pump more 
> money into that company in order to make it viable. If I were 
> buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter 
> how good they are.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin   > wrote:
>> ET,
>>
>> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on 
>> this I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have 
>> for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com  
>> .  Alternatively, you could reach 
>> out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. >> 
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Donna,
>>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. 
>>> That is indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and 
>>> learn more. Appreciate your input.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it 
>>> were true?
>>>
>>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 ET,
 You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone 
 who wants to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

   Political? Sure sounds like it. I had no idea that VFO took over all 
those companies. Kind of surprised that GW Micro is under that umbrella.


   It makes me nervous because this changes the power exerted by 
mergers like this. At the same time though, if done right, resources 
could be maximized. Fingers crossed.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:39 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
Wow, now we are getting political. VFO owns the companies that are now 
or were formally called:


• Freedom Scientific
• AI Squared
•GW Miccro
• The Paciello Group
•  Enhanced Vision
• Optelec


So what Blind technology firms are still out there?

• HiMS
• Humanware
• A company with Bristol in its name that is about to create a 40 x 9 
refreshable display


Anything else that is still actively competing with the Shark company?


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:27 PM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes 
I will certainly share my experiences.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what 
used to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of 
theirs, but that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you 
check out the new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Mary,
  I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.


  I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who 
knows, maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of 
interest, got the user guide so will look at it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live 
in the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used 
display from someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, 
but I wouldn’t want to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, 
but it really depends on whether somebody is willing to pump more 
money into that company in order to make it viable. If I were 
buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter 
how good they are.

Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on 
this I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have 
for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com  
.  Alternatively, you could reach 
out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T.  
> wrote:


Donna,
  You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. 
That is indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and 
learn more. Appreciate your input.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com  


Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone 
who wants to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T.  
> wrote:


Mary and Jason,
  Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

  The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the 
Focus line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I 
may see if I can get one to look at.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com  


Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, 
which is now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a 
great display with a big learning curve. I would really 

RE: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?

[david.tanner100]

I will only speak for AT since that is who I use.  They add another line and 
charge you $10.00 a month for the line.  They wave installation and setup 
charges for setting up the new line as a part of their deal with Apple to sell 
the Apple watch.  I baught my watch at Best Buy, but used AT as my carrier, 
and financed the watch on my AT Next account.  The watch came to $20.00 per 
month for 20 months in addition to the $10.00 for the cell line.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 6:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?

I figured, Simon.  I couldn't imagine that a cell provider would miss a chance 
to get a few more $$. lol Cheers, Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:45 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I can't say exactly but I believe some of the US mobile providers had 
> a plan for something like 5 dollars as an additional charge to the 
> existing plan for the phone, But yes be the answer,
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 2:07 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> My husband is looking at getting an Apple Watch.  I'm assuming the answer to 
> the question in the subject line is yes, but thought I would check just in 
> case.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> --
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Re: Braille Displays

[Jonathan Cohn]

ET

Focus is what Freedom Scientific has called its Braille displays for several 
years (maybe a decade). 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:53 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what little 
> I know? (smiles)
> 
>   What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a Brailesense 
> Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a Mac, I can do heavy 
> work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic things. I read a lot of 
> braille books on the Edge, and want to use the display for backup if 
> something happens to my hearing. That is why the concept of access to 
> multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.
> 
>   While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will take a 
> closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs is not 
> happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays but will have 
> another opportunity.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
>> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except 
>> eat other companies.
>> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
>> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
>> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
>> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
>> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
>> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
>> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
>>> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
>>> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
>>> my experiences.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 ET,
 I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used 
 to be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but 
 that hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the 
 new Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Mary,
>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff 
> on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
> 
>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
> don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, 
> maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the 
> user guide so will look at it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in 
>> the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display 
>> from someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t 
>> want to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really 
>> depends on whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that 
>> company in order to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I 
>> would not buy a baum display, no matter how good they are.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> 
>>> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this 
>>> I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
>>> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, 
>>> you could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Donna,
   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
 indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
 Appreciate your input.
 
 From E.T.'s 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Donna,
   Who actually develops the Focus line of products? Can you tell what 
little I know? (smiles)


   What I do like about the Edge is its not loaded down. I have a 
Brailesense Plus (dead now) and I barely used its features. Having a 
Mac, I can do heavy work there, and an iPhone, for quick access to basic 
things. I read a lot of braille books on the Edge, and want to use the 
display for backup if something happens to my hearing. That is why the 
concept of access to multiple Bluetooth devices is so attractive now.


   While I am focused on the Focus 5th (smiles at self here), I will 
take a closer look at the other brands. If I had understood that new VUs 
is not happening, I wold have spent more time with the other displays 
but will have another opportunity.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:33 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.

One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Donna,
   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? But 
we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share my 
experiences.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to be 
Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that hasn't 
been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new Focus, please 
do share your impressions with the list.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Mary,
   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.

   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I will 
keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user guide so will 
look at it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the US, 
you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from someone. I 
assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want to say that for 
sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on whether somebody is 
willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it viable. If I 
were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter how good 
they are.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I suggest you 
email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com 
.  Alternatively, you could reach out to him on 
the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:

Donna,
   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is indeed 
unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. Appreciate your 
input.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants to sell 
theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:

Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line 
held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get one to 
look at.

 From 

Re: Braille Displays

[Christine Grassman]

I agree wholeheartedly about everything. I would love it if the scrolling could 
go even faster, but then, I am a really fast reader, and I guess there is only 
a certain degree of swiftness one can expect from refreshing dots. Since I have 
carpal tunnel syndrome, it is absolutely wonderful not to have to keep pushing 
something to move along as quickly as I would have to (but you can, if you 
wish). 
Christine


> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:38 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on 
> it are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought I 
> would use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I 
> still love the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your 
> finger position is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. I 
> *love* it. It is definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but I 
> don’t mind the work arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille 
> onto it. the Active tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is 
> amazing.
> 
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a 
> brick for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except 
> eat other companies.
> 
> One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
> component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
> notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to 
> read books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would 
> never again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word 
> processor.  I don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do 
> all that on my phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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> 
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-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

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moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Braille Displays

[david.tanner100]

Handy Tech, APH, and at least a couple of others from Europe whose names escape 
me right at this moment.  Oh yes, don’t forget the Braille note taker from 
National Braille Press.

 

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Braille Displays

 

Wow, now we are getting political. VFO owns the companies that are now or were 
formally called:

 

• Freedom Scientific

• AI Squared 

•GW Miccro 

• The Paciello Group

•  Enhanced Vision

• Optelec

 

 

So what Blind technology firms are still out there?

 

• HiMS 

• Humanware 

• A company with Bristol in its name that is about to create a 40 x 9 
refreshable display 

 

Anything else that is still actively competing with the Shark company?

 

 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn







On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:27 PM, E.T.  > wrote:

 

Donna,
  This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? But 
we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share my 
experiences.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com  
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:



ET,
I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to be 
Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that hasn't 
been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new Focus, please 
do share your impressions with the list.
Cheers,
Donna



On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  > wrote:

Mary,
  I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on who 
markets what. VFO for example is new to me.

  I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I will 
keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user guide so will 
look at it.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com  
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:



Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the US, 
you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from someone. I 
assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want to say that for 
sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on whether somebody is 
willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it viable. If I 
were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter how good 
they are.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin   > wrote:



ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
dbradb...@baumusa.com   
.  Alternatively, you could reach out to him on 
the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
Cheers,
Donna



On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T.   > wrote:

Donna,
  You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is indeed 
unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. Appreciate your 
input.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com   

Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:



ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants to sell 
theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
Cheers,
Donna



On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T.   > wrote:

Mary and Jason,
  Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

  The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line held 
up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get one to look 
at.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com   

Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:



Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now out of 
business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big learning 
curve. I would 

Re: Braille Displays

[Jonathan Cohn]

Wow, now we are getting political. VFO owns the companies that are now or were 
formally called:

• Freedom Scientific
• AI Squared 
•GW Miccro 
• The Paciello Group
•Enhanced Vision
• Optelec


So what Blind technology firms are still out there?

• HiMS 
• Humanware 
• A company with Bristol in its name that is about to create a 40 x 9 
refreshable display 

Anything else that is still actively competing with the Shark company?


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:27 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
> my experiences.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to 
>> be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that 
>> hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new 
>> Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
>>> who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
>>> 
>>>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
>>> remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I 
>>> will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user 
>>> guide so will look at it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the 
 US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from 
 someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want 
 to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on 
 whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that company in order 
 to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum 
 display, no matter how good they are.
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
> ET,
> 
> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
>> indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
>> Appreciate your input.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants 
>>> to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
 
   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
 line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I 
 can get one to look at.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
> now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display 
> with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
> generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability 
> and will have some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of 
> mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes 
> it a lot.
> Sent 

Re: Braille Displays

[alia robinson]

I got the actilino used. I wanted something in case my VU died. the dots on it 
are becoming *very* soft. some of them hardly come up at all. I thought I would 
use the actilino as a backup, but I am using it exclusively now. I still love 
the vu, but the ability of the actilino to scroll based on your finger position 
is game changing for me. It works anywhere, even an iphone. I *love* it. It is 
definitely not as good on the software end as vario, but I don’t mind the work 
arounds I have to do on my mac to get grade 2 braille onto it. the Active 
tactile control or whatever they call the scrolling is amazing.

On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.

One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

Yep.  Their last truly innovative product was the PacMate.  That's been a brick 
for a long time now, and they haven't done anything since then--except eat 
other companies.

One thing I would suggest as a factor for consideration is the notetaker 
component.  I really like having a display that functions as an independent 
notetaker.  I use that feature a lot, either just to jot down notes, or to read 
books when I don't want to be tied to a phone or a computer.  I would never 
again purchase a braille display that didn't have a built-in word processor.  I 
don't care about having a calendar and all that because I do all that on my 
phone.  But having a word processor is non-negotiable for me.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:27 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when Freedom 
> Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, including Blazie? 
> But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I will certainly share 
> my experiences.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to 
>> be Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that 
>> hasn't been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new 
>> Focus, please do share your impressions with the list.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
>>> who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
>>> 
>>>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
>>> remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I 
>>> will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user 
>>> guide so will look at it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the 
 US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from 
 someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want 
 to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on 
 whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that company in order 
 to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum 
 display, no matter how good they are.
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
> ET,
> 
> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
>> indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
>> Appreciate your input.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants 
>>> to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
 
   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
 line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I 
 can get one to look at.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
> now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display 
> with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
> generation focus if I were you. It 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Donna,
   This is actually a concern I have. It goes back to the time when 
Freedom Scientific came to life and took over what, 3 companies, 
including Blazie? But we do not have many choices in the AT field. Yes I 
will certainly share my experiences.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 9:10 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,

I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to be 
Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that hasn't 
been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new Focus, please 
do share your impressions with the list.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Mary,
   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.

   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I will 
keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user guide so will 
look at it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the US, 
you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from someone. I 
assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want to say that for 
sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on whether somebody is 
willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it viable. If I 
were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no matter how good 
they are.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I suggest you 
email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is dbradb...@baumusa.com 
.  Alternatively, you could reach out to him on 
the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:

Donna,
   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is indeed 
unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. Appreciate your 
input.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants to sell 
theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
Cheers,
Donna

On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:

Mary and Jason,
   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line 
held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get one to 
look at.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now out of 
business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big learning 
curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation focus if I were you. 
It has multiple devices capability and will have some notetaking capability 
later this year. A friend of mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, 
and he really likes it a lot.
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > wrote:

Donna,
   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But I 
think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  I think 
the last update is from 2015.

   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my desire to 
join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.

   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too so will 
go through it over the next week or so.

   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it does not 
decrease in quality of product and support.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
Hey ET,
I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, and was 
never able to sell my Edge.
This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the bankruptcy issue 
with Baum has real nightmare 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Leo,
   Right on the support. How do you like your 5th? Anyone remember the 
Blazie notetakers? I miss those cells, nice and sharp. I am not so fond 
of the more rounded ones used these days but can live with that.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/29/2018 4:18 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

Hi Mary,

A couple of months ago, I purchased the Fifth Generation Focus for the 
reasons you stated.  I like being able to quickly switch between my 
iPhone and PC with this display.  Regardless of the company one chooses 
to work with, there are pros and cons with all of them.  I chose the 
Focus as I am confident Freedom Scientific will be around to support 
this device.


Les

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10


*From: *Mary Otten 
*Sent: *Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:56 PM
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


*Subject: *Re: Braille Displays

One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is 
sturdier build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a 
metal housing I believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he 
is a jaws user. I don’t know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.


Mary

Sent from my iPhone

 > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:

 >

 > Mary and Jason,

 >   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

 >

 >   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can 
get one to look at.


 >

 > From E.T.'s Keyboard...

 >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com

 > Many believe that we have been visited

 > in the past. What if it were true?

 >

 >> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

 >> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with 
a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and 
will have some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine 
just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.


 >> Sent from my iPhone

 >>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:

 >>>

 >>> Donna,

 >>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. 
But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile 
up.  I think the last update is from 2015.


 >>>

 >>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.


 >>>

 >>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide 
too so will go through it over the next week or so.


 >>>

 >>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope 
it does not decrease in quality of product and support.


 >>>

 >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...

 >>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com

 >>> Many believe that we have been visited

 >>> in the past. What if it were true?

 >>>

  On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

  Hey ET,

  I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the 
VU, and was never able to sell my Edge.


  This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently 
David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as a 
side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of 
knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as getting 
tech support from the company.


  That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  
Braille Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what 
happened with the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but it's 
like HIMS  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It has all 
these function keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The 
apps are also very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and 
file manager, and a calculator, but it's all kind of like something 
you'd find on an old flip phone.


  The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed out, can 
connect to multiple bluetooth devices.


  The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when 
the Edge came out it felt relatively small, but it is very heavy and 
blocky compared to the VU, which is small, and light, and sleek.


  The VU has a significantly higher learning curve, but I wouldn't 
imagine that that would be an issue for you.


  One last thing to think about is that with the Edge, you transfer 
files onto it with an SD 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

ET,

I'll be curious about your impressions of the Focus 5.  VFO is what used to be 
Freedom Scientific.  Time was when I was a huge fan of theirs, but that hasn't 
been the case for over ten years now.  If you check out the new Focus, please 
do share your impressions with the list.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Mary,
>   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to snuff on 
> who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.
> 
>   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I don't 
> remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, maybe I 
> will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got the user guide 
> so will look at it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in the 
>> US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display from 
>> someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t want to 
>> say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really depends on whether 
>> somebody is willing to pump more money into that company in order to make it 
>> viable. If I were buying up display now, I would not buy a baum display, no 
>> matter how good they are.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>>> ET,
>>> 
>>> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
>>> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
>>> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
>>> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Donna,
   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
 indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
 Appreciate your input.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> ET,
> You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants 
> to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Mary and Jason,
>>   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
>> 
>>   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
>> line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can 
>> get one to look at.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
>>> now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with 
>>> a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new 
>>> generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and 
>>> will have some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine 
>>> just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a 
>>> lot.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > wrote:
 
 Donna,
   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. 
 But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile 
 up.  I think the last update is from 2015.
 
   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
 desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
 
   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too 
 so will go through it over the next week or so.
 
   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
 does not decrease in quality of product and support.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Hey ET,
> I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Jason,
   If I can take the 5th for a spin I may try and test this for myself.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 4:32 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I recall reading recently that VoiceOver on Mac OS has problems with some 
VFO/Freedom Scientific displays. However, I don't know whether this applies to 
the new generation of Focus models.

On 4/28/18, 17:42, "E.T."  wrote:

 Mary,
 Durability is key. I will look for information on this new Focus.
 Thanks.
 
  From E.T.'s Keyboard...

 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 4/28/2018 10:56 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

 > One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is sturdier 
build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a metal housing I 
believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he is a jaws user. I don’t 
know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.
 > Mary
 >
 >
 > Sent from my iPhone
 >
 >> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 >>
 >> Mary and Jason,
 >>Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
 >>
 >>The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get one to 
look at.
 >>
 >>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 >>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 >> Many believe that we have been visited
 >> in the past. What if it were true?
 >>
 >>> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
 >>> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is 
now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big learning 
curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation focus if I were you. It has 
multiple devices capability and will have some notetaking capability later this year. A 
friend of mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
 >>> Sent from my iPhone
  On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
  Donna,
 Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. 
But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  I think the last 
update is from 2015.
 
 There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
 
 I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide 
too so will go through it over the next week or so.
 
 Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
does not decrease in quality of product and support.
 
   From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
  Many believe that we have been visited
  in the past. What if it were true?
 
 > On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 > Hey ET,
 > I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, 
and was never able to sell my Edge.
 > This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently David Bradburn is 
providing some repair support, but he's doing it as a side-gig.  The only tech support is the 
VU list.  It's a lot of knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as 
getting tech support from the company.
 > That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with the Edge.  It has lots 
of coolness potential, but it's like HIMS  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It 
has all these function keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The apps are also 
very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and file manager, and a calculator, but 
it's all kind of like something you'd find on an old flip phone.
 > The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed out, can connect to multiple 
bluetooth devices.
 > The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when the 
Edge came out it felt relatively small, but it is very heavy and blocky compared to the VU, 
which is small, and light, and sleek.
 > The VU has a significantly higher learning curve, but I wouldn't 
imagine that that would be an issue for you.
 > One last thing to think about is that with the Edge, you transfer 
files onto 

Re: Braille Displays

[Donna Goodin]

ET,

I wouldn't settle for an Edge either.  It just doesn't have that much to offer. 
 I'm not sure there's anything else out there at the moment that does, but good 
luck.

As for my Edge, I'll keep it around as a backup.  I'm hoping my VU works for a 
long time to come, but if it dies, at least I won't be left with nothing while 
I figure out what I'm going to replace it with.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 10:59 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   I reckon I will look at other displays. After hearing about the changes in 
> technology in new displays I know I can't settle for an Edge even though I 
> liked its simplicity. Sounds like you may have to give yours away. Someone on 
> a different list is selling his 2-month old Edge for about half its original 
> cost.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/28/2018 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> ET,
>> So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
>> suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
>> dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, you 
>> could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>>   You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
>>> indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
>>> Appreciate your input.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 ET,
 You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who wants to 
 sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T.  > wrote:
> 
> Mary and Jason,
>   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
> 
>   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus 
> line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can 
> get one to look at.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now 
>> out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a 
>> big learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation 
>> focus if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and will have 
>> some notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine just got 
>> one and says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But 
>>> I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  
>>> I think the last update is from 2015.
>>> 
>>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
>>> desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
>>> 
>>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too 
>>> so will go through it over the next week or so.
>>> 
>>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
>>> does not decrease in quality of product and support.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hey ET,
 I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, 
 and was never able to sell my Edge.
 This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
 bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently 
 David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as 
 a side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of 
 knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as 
 getting tech support from the company.
 That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
 Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with 
 the Edge.  It has lots of coolness 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Mary,
   I suppose I am out of touch with the AT business so am not up to 
snuff on who markets what. VFO for example is new to me.


   I briefly looked at a display last week that has a touch screen. I 
don't remember what brand that one is but I passed on it. But who knows, 
maybe I will keep an open mind. The Focus 5th is now of interest, got 
the user guide so will look at it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 6:16 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Baum USA was the distributor for the United States. So if you live in 
the US, you are out of luck unless you’re willing to buy a used display 
from someone. I assume the same might be true for Europe, but I wouldn’t 
want to say that for sure. This whole thing is sad, but it really 
depends on whether somebody is willing to pump more money into that 
company in order to make it viable. If I were buying up display now, I 
would not buy a baum display, no matter how good they are.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2018, at 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:



ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this 
I suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, 
you could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That 
is indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
Appreciate your input.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who 
wants to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Mary and Jason,
  Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

  The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the 
Focus line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may 
see if I can get one to look at.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which 
is now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great 
display with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look 
at the new generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices 
capability and will have some notetaking capability later this 
year. A friend of mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, 
and he really likes it a lot.

Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with 
it. But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy 
products pile up.  I think the last update is from 2015.


  There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated 
my desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.


  I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user 
guide too so will go through it over the next week or so.


  Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope 
it does not decrease in quality of product and support.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
Hey ET,
I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the 
VU, and was never able to sell my Edge.
This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential. 
 Currently David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but 
he's doing it as a side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU 
list.  It's a lot of knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but 
that's not the same as getting tech support from the company.
That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The 
 Braille Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure 
what happened with the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, 
but it's like HIMS  started to develop it and then just stopped. 
 It has all these function keys, for example, but most of them 
don't do much.  The apps are also very limited.  It has a sort 
of minimal word processor and file manager, and a calculator, 
but it's all kind of like something you'd find on an old flip phone.
The VU has a 

Re: Braille Displays

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I can say that the focus Fifth generation display works very well with your 
iPhone as well as the computers. I don’t have a Mac anymore, as I need to save 
up for a new one. I am hoping that the iMac will be coming out again in 
September.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Apr 2018, at 4:53 pm, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> Does auto scroll work outside of jaws? That is, on a Mac or an iPhone?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:18 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>>  
>> A couple of months ago, I purchased the Fifth Generation Focus for the 
>> reasons you stated.  I like being able to quickly switch between my iPhone 
>> and PC with this display.  Regardless of the company one chooses to work 
>> with, there are pros and cons with all of them.  I chose the Focus as I am 
>> confident Freedom Scientific will be around to support this device.
>>  
>> Les
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Mary Otten
>> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:56 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>>  
>> One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
>> durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is 
>> sturdier build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a metal 
>> housing I believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he is a jaws 
>> user. I don’t know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.
>> Mary
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>  
>> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> >
>> > Mary and Jason,
>> >   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
>> >
>> >   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line 
>> > held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get 
>> > one to look at.
>> >
>> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> > Many believe that we have been visited
>> > in the past. What if it were true?
>> >
>> >> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> >> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now 
>> >> out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big 
>> >> learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation focus 
>> >> if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and will have some 
>> >> notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine just got one and 
>> >> says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Donna,
>> >>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But 
>> >>> I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  I 
>> >>> think the last update is from 2015.
>> >>>
>> >>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
>> >>> desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
>> >>>
>> >>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too 
>> >>> so will go through it over the next week or so.
>> >>>
>> >>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it 
>> >>> does not decrease in quality of product and support.
>> >>>
>> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> >>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> >>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> >>>
>>  On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>  Hey ET,
>>  I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, 
>>  and was never able to sell my Edge.
>>  This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
>>  bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently 
>>  David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as a 
>>  side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of 
>>  knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but that's not the same as 
>>  getting tech support from the company.
>>  That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
>>  Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with 
>>  the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but it's like HIMS  
>>  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It has all these function 
>>  keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The apps are also 
>>  very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and file 
>>  manager, and a calculator, but it's all kind of like something you'd 
>>  find on an old flip phone.
>>  The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
>>  reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed out, can 
>>  connect to multiple bluetooth devices.
>>  The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when the 
>>  Edge came out it 

Re: Braille Displays

[E.T.]

Donna,
   I reckon I will look at other displays. After hearing about the 
changes in technology in new displays I know I can't settle for an Edge 
even though I liked its simplicity. Sounds like you may have to give 
yours away. Someone on a different list is selling his 2-month old Edge 
for about half its original cost.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 5:59 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,

So far as I know.  I bought directly from them.  For best info on this I 
suggest you email David Bradburn.  The only email I have for him is 
dbradb...@baumusa.com .  Alternatively, 
you could reach out to him on the VU list.  I believe he still reads it.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 4:40 PM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  You mean, Baum USA was the only vendor? That changes things. That is 
indeed unfortunate. I will look into the new Focus and learn more. 
Appreciate your input.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 10:50 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

ET,
You cannot purchase them new.  You would have to find someone who 
wants to sell theres, which is why I suggested the VU list.

Cheers,
Donna
On Apr 28, 2018, at 11:42 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Mary and Jason,
  Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.

  The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the 
Focus line held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may 
see if I can get one to look at.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which 
is now out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great 
display with a big learning curve. I would really seriously look at 
the new generation focus if I were you. It has multiple devices 
capability and will have some notetaking capability later this 
year. A friend of mine just got one and says it’s very well-built, 
and he really likes it a lot.

Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T. > wrote:


Donna,
  Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with 
it. But I think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy 
products pile up.  I think the last update is from 2015.


  There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated 
my desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.


  I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide 
too so will go through it over the next week or so.


  Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope 
it does not decrease in quality of product and support.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
Hey ET,
I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the 
VU, and was never able to sell my Edge.
This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the 
bankruptcy issue with Baum has real nightmare potential. 
 Currently David Bradburn is providing some repair support, but 
he's doing it as a side-gig.  The only tech support is the VU 
list.  It's a lot of knowledgeable and very helpful folks, but 
that's not the same as getting tech support from the company.
That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The 
 Braille Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what 
happened with the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but 
it's like HIMS  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It 
has all these function keys, for example, but most of them don't 
do much.  The apps are also very limited.  It has a sort of 
minimal word processor and file manager, and a calculator, but 
it's all kind of like something you'd find on an old flip phone.
The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a 
PDF reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed 
out, can connect to multiple bluetooth devices.
The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when 
the Edge came out it felt relatively small, but it is very heavy 
and blocky compared to the VU, which is small, and light, and sleek.
The VU has a significantly higher learning curve, but I wouldn't 
imagine that that would be an issue for you.
One last thing to think about is that with the Edge, you transfer 
files onto it with an SD card, which is pretty dated.  With the 
VU, you can transfer either via USB drive or you can 

Re: Braille Displays

[Mary Otten]

Hi Les,
Does auto scroll work outside of jaws? That is, on a Mac or an iPhone?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:18 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
>  
> A couple of months ago, I purchased the Fifth Generation Focus for the 
> reasons you stated.  I like being able to quickly switch between my iPhone 
> and PC with this display.  Regardless of the company one chooses to work 
> with, there are pros and cons with all of them.  I chose the Focus as I am 
> confident Freedom Scientific will be around to support this device.
>  
> Les
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Mary Otten
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:56 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Braille Displays
>  
> One of the things about the focus this place has been complaints about 
> durability in the past. One of the new things with the new generation is 
> sturdier build. They have bumpers on the ends of them now, and it’s a metal 
> housing I believe. My friend loves the auto scroll feature. But he is a jaws 
> user. I don’t know if it works in any other context besides Jaws.
> Mary
>  
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:42 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> >
> > Mary and Jason,
> >   Good question on availability. I will need to look into that.
> >
> >   The new Focus sounds interesting. In general how well has the Focus line 
> > held up? That auto scroll feature is intriguing. I may see if I can get one 
> > to look at.
> >
> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> > Many believe that we have been visited
> > in the past. What if it were true?
> >
> >> On 4/28/2018 9:35 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> >> Can you even still purchase a v u? I didn’t think baum USA, which is now 
> >> out of business, even had any stock left. It’s a great display with a big 
> >> learning curve. I would really seriously look at the new generation focus 
> >> if I were you. It has multiple devices capability and will have some 
> >> notetaking capability later this year. A friend of mine just got one and 
> >> says it’s very well-built, and he really likes it a lot.
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:31 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Donna,
> >>>   Good feedback. When I first got the Edge I was impressed with it. But I 
> >>> think HIMS moves on rather too quickly and legacy products pile up.  I 
> >>> think the last update is from 2015.
> >>>
> >>>   There is no end to the learning curve so since you anticipated my 
> >>> desire to join a VU list, I just joined! Thanks for that.
> >>>
> >>>   I do like the multiple Bluetooth concept. I found the user guide too so 
> >>> will go through it over the next week or so.
> >>>
> >>>   Perhaps someone will take over Baum. If that happens, lets hope it does 
> >>> not decrease in quality of product and support.
> >>>
> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >>> Many believe that we have been visited
> >>> in the past. What if it were true?
> >>>
>  On 4/28/2018 5:59 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>  Hey ET,
>  I currently own both those displays--I replaced my Edge with the VU, and 
>  was never able to sell my Edge.
>  This is a really hard question to answer.  Erik is right, the bankruptcy 
>  issue with Baum has real nightmare potential.  Currently David Bradburn 
>  is providing some repair support, but he's doing it as a side-gig.  The 
>  only tech support is the VU list.  It's a lot of knowledgeable and very 
>  helpful folks, but that's not the same as getting tech support from the 
>  company.
>  That said, the VU is the best display I've ever owned.  The  Braille 
>  Edge frankly doesn't even come close.  I'm not sure what happened with 
>  the Edge.  It has lots of coolness potential, but it's like HIMS  
>  started to develop it and then just stopped.  It has all these function 
>  keys, for example, but most of them don't do much.  The apps are also 
>  very limited.  It has a sort of minimal word processor and file manager, 
>  and a calculator, but it's all kind of like something you'd find on an 
>  old flip phone.
>  The VU has a nice word processor with separate file manager, a PDF 
>  reader, and an Excel spreadsheet viewer.  And as Erik pointed out, can 
>  connect to multiple bluetooth devices.
>  The VU also has by far the nicer form factor.  It's funny, when the Edge 
>  came out it felt relatively small, but it is very heavy and blocky 
>  compared to the VU, which is small, and light, and sleek.
>  The VU has a significantly higher learning curve, but I wouldn't imagine 
>  that that would be an issue for you.
>  One last thing to think about is that with the Edge, you transfer files 
>  onto it with an SD card, which is pretty dated.  With the VU, you can 
>  transfer either via USB drive or you 

Re: voices

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Try using your rotor.  Twist left with two fingers like your turning down the 
volume knob on a radio.  If you hear the word "language" trying to be 
pronounced oddly the other language, then flip up or down to see if it changes 
to English.  If you're unable to understand if it says the word "language', 
just twist the rotor once to the left, then flick up or down, and keep doing 
that one twist at a time, one of them will change it back to English for you.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 08:55, wayne coles  wrote:

hello i have made a big mistake i have made a foreign voice made default is 
there a way to change things back i cant understand a word it is saying

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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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Re: Question about a very specific type of crash

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Again, I appear to need to proof-read my responses.  That should read that the 
"m" is a typo.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 09:14, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

Sorry, the "m" appears to be a top.  It shouldn't be there.  cmd-option-shift-q 
should be enough.  It will normally log you right out without any prompts, 
unless there's an app that has unsaved documents, or if there's an app that is 
otherwise blocking the logout process request.   Normally, these scenarios are 
not present though when VO acts this way upon initially logging in.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 07:47, Kristeen Hughes > wrote:

Tim, what is the m for after the command+option+shift+q? Is it an answer to a 
question we cannot see if VO is not working? I am eager to see if this helps me 
when VO goes down on my mini.

Kristeen


> On Apr 23, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> cmd-shift-q still requires a response, whereas cmd-option-shift-q will log 
> you out right away.  The difference being that if your Mac wants a 
> confirmation, and as a VO user, you're unable to do so, then you're hooped 
> and have to do the forced shutdown as you did.  When I use the 
> cmd-option-shift-q,m I get logged out right away, and then I can log back in 
> again with VO working properly the second time.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 14:16, Robert Cole  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> I had already thought to log out with cmd+shift+Q.
> But I still had no speech.
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 10:56 PM, Tim Kilburn > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Two things to note here.  First, if you're able to take a snap-shot, then 
>> the System has not crashed, just probably the speech synthesizer.  Instead 
>> of holding down the power button, press cmd-option-shift-q to log out of the 
>> current user without any prompts.  This will take you back to the Login 
>> window and when you login the second time, VO should start normally.  I've 
>> seen this issue on occasion, but haven't figured out why it's happening.  
>> Second thing to note is that when you take a screen shot, the resulting png 
>> file is always placed on your Desktop.  It will be titled Screen Shot 
>> followed the time stamp of the snap shot.  It will remain on the Desktop 
>> until you remove it, unless you've logged in as the Guest user, for which 
>> anything on the Desktop is lost at logout.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 12:39, Robert Cole > > wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Alex,
>> After booting my Mac, I had speech on the log on window, but not after 
>> logging into my user account.
>> Pressing cmd+F5 did nothing.
>> I pressed the commands to take a system snapshot as you suggested. Since I 
>> had no speech, I had to hole down the power button to shut down.
>> after rebooting and logging 
>> back in, how do I find the system snapshot, and what is its name?
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>  
>> 
>>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's a new one for me. My only suggestion is to try something that worked 
>>> for me: if you're using portable preferences with VoiceOver, stop using 
>>> them and see if the problem persists. If you're already not using them, all 
>>> I can suggest is to grab a system snapshot and email it to Apple 
>>> Accessibility. To do this, wait for the problem to happen, then press 
>>> command, option, control, shift, and period, all at once. After ten minutes 
>>> or so, Finder will open to the results, a large file you can email with 
>>> Maildrop or via a cloud service.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 14, 2018, at 11:21, Kristeen Hughes > wrote:
 
 I have a Mac Mini from 2016. This has also happened on previous Minis. I 
 have never known it to occur on a laptop. I will be listening to music and 
 I will quicklook another type of sound file or even sometimes a file that 
 uses voiceover. I’m guessing that two sounds hit the in a very specific 
 way and I lose not only the voice of voiceover, but all of it’s 
 functionality as well. Other apps are still open and functioning, and, for 
 example, if I can command+tab to iTunes, I can pause it. However, any VO 
 command results in the default sound you get if you are at the top or 
 bottom of a file or.
 
 Is there any way to restore VO without rebooting the computer?
 
 Thanks.
 
 

Re: Question about a very specific type of crash

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Sorry, the "m" appears to be a top.  It shouldn't be there.  cmd-option-shift-q 
should be enough.  It will normally log you right out without any prompts, 
unless there's an app that has unsaved documents, or if there's an app that is 
otherwise blocking the logout process request.   Normally, these scenarios are 
not present though when VO acts this way upon initially logging in.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 07:47, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:

Tim, what is the m for after the command+option+shift+q? Is it an answer to a 
question we cannot see if VO is not working? I am eager to see if this helps me 
when VO goes down on my mini.

Kristeen


> On Apr 23, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> cmd-shift-q still requires a response, whereas cmd-option-shift-q will log 
> you out right away.  The difference being that if your Mac wants a 
> confirmation, and as a VO user, you're unable to do so, then you're hooped 
> and have to do the forced shutdown as you did.  When I use the 
> cmd-option-shift-q,m I get logged out right away, and then I can log back in 
> again with VO working properly the second time.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 14:16, Robert Cole  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> I had already thought to log out with cmd+shift+Q.
> But I still had no speech.
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 10:56 PM, Tim Kilburn > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Two things to note here.  First, if you're able to take a snap-shot, then 
>> the System has not crashed, just probably the speech synthesizer.  Instead 
>> of holding down the power button, press cmd-option-shift-q to log out of the 
>> current user without any prompts.  This will take you back to the Login 
>> window and when you login the second time, VO should start normally.  I've 
>> seen this issue on occasion, but haven't figured out why it's happening.  
>> Second thing to note is that when you take a screen shot, the resulting png 
>> file is always placed on your Desktop.  It will be titled Screen Shot 
>> followed the time stamp of the snap shot.  It will remain on the Desktop 
>> until you remove it, unless you've logged in as the Guest user, for which 
>> anything on the Desktop is lost at logout.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 12:39, Robert Cole > > wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Alex,
>> After booting my Mac, I had speech on the log on window, but not after 
>> logging into my user account.
>> Pressing cmd+F5 did nothing.
>> I pressed the commands to take a system snapshot as you suggested. Since I 
>> had no speech, I had to hole down the power button to shut down.
>> after rebooting and logging 
>> back in, how do I find the system snapshot, and what is its name?
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>  
>> 
>>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's a new one for me. My only suggestion is to try something that worked 
>>> for me: if you're using portable preferences with VoiceOver, stop using 
>>> them and see if the problem persists. If you're already not using them, all 
>>> I can suggest is to grab a system snapshot and email it to Apple 
>>> Accessibility. To do this, wait for the problem to happen, then press 
>>> command, option, control, shift, and period, all at once. After ten minutes 
>>> or so, Finder will open to the results, a large file you can email with 
>>> Maildrop or via a cloud service.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 14, 2018, at 11:21, Kristeen Hughes > wrote:
 
 I have a Mac Mini from 2016. This has also happened on previous Minis. I 
 have never known it to occur on a laptop. I will be listening to music and 
 I will quicklook another type of sound file or even sometimes a file that 
 uses voiceover. I’m guessing that two sounds hit the in a very specific 
 way and I lose not only the voice of voiceover, but all of it’s 
 functionality as well. Other apps are still open and functioning, and, for 
 example, if I can command+tab to iTunes, I can pause it. However, any VO 
 command results in the default sound you get if you are at the top or 
 bottom of a file or.
 
 Is there any way to restore VO without rebooting the computer?
 
 Thanks.
 
 Kristeen
 
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Re: Acrobat DC dual behavior

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Yes, there is.  I haven't checked on it for a while though.  In my last contact 
with the developer about a year ago, they admitted that the accessibility of 
the iOS app was not up to the level of the Mac app.  They did claim to be 
working on it, but I've not yet did any checking.  It might be worth another 
look and/or some gentle nudging by a few other potential clients.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 29, 2018, at 02:45, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Is there a version of this for the IOS platform?
 
It would be good on my phone and ipad.
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2018 1:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Acrobat DC dual behavior
 
Hi,
 
 
I like PDFPen Pro. It’s not free but a great product. It handles OCR, fillable 
forms, and reads PDFs very well.
 
 
 Later... 
 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2018, at 4:01 AM, Steve Matzura > wrote:

OK then,Tim,what would you recommend as a good replacement? I am quite happy to 
remove DC.

 
On 4/26/2018 10:48 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
Hi, 
 
No, on Mac.  Adobe claims to have made the reading of pdf documents with 
Acrobat Pro accessible.  I'll admit that they have made improvements, but 
accessible is a huge stretch.  I tried it soon after the claim around a year 
ago, and it was OK until you wanted to do more detailed reading or go back over 
something.  I tried it again yesterday after your inquiry, and I got even less 
results than a year ago.  There area number of pdf products on the market right 
now that are very accessible, so any claim by Adobe about the accessibility of 
Acrobat Pro is simply smoke and mirrors.  In this case, it is totally an Adobe 
issue as using the accessibility API hooks is their responsibility.
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Apr 26, 2018, at 07:45, Steve Matzura > wrote:
 
On Windows? Interesting if yes.
 
On 4/25/2018 5:57 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
Hi, 
 
Hmmm, interesting.  I opened a 12 page pdf with Preview, it was 12 with 
PDFPenPro and 12 with Acrobat Pro.  I still have issues making Acrobat work 
particularly well, but that's probably just me.
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Apr 25, 2018, at 14:27, Steve Matzura > wrote:
 
Seven.
 
On 4/25/2018 4:07 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
Hi, 
 
How many pages are there when you open it in Preview?
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Apr 25, 2018, at 13:42, Steve Matzura > wrote:
 
I received a PDF which I was asked to sign on page 9. However, when opened with 
Acrobat DC on Mac OS, there were but seven pages. In Windows, the pagination 
was correct. Any clue as to why this might be, and how to fix it? I need the 
Apple Acrobat to match the Windows one.


T IA

TIA


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The 

voices

[wayne coles]

hello i have made a big mistake i have made a foreign voice made default 
is there a way to change things back i cant understand a word it is saying


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Re: alias

[james . londonsw15]

Hi Andrew

Quite right thanks for the correction

Best 
James

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Apr 2018, at 12:53, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> Just one minor correction: to open preferences the key combination is command 
> + comma.
> 
> Andrew
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, James AUSTIN  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Wayne
>> 
>> You can press Command + L on the item for which you want to create an alias. 
>> You will then need to copy that item  to the desktop if that  is where you 
>> want your  aliases to appear.
>> 
>> However, regarding your HD, you can  have it appear on your Desktop by 
>> selecting  'Hard Disks' which you  will find in the 'General' tab of Finder 
>> Preferences under the option 'show these items on the Desktop':
>> 
>> 1. Navigate to the Finder
>> 2. Press Command + semi colon to open Finder's Preferences. (This key 
>> combination will open preferences in all apps except System Preferences).
>> 3. Navigate to the 'General' tab within the toolbar
>> 4 Under 'Show these items on the Desktop', check the box that says 'Hard 
>> Disks'.
>> 
>> 
>> HTH
>> Best wishes
>> James 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29 Apr 2018, at 03:19, wayne coles  wrote:
>>> 
>>> hello all sorry for all the questions but how do i create a alias to put on 
>>> my desktop of my hd please
>>> 
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Re: Question about a very specific type of crash

[Kristeen Hughes]

Tim, what is the m for after the command+option+shift+q? Is it an answer to a 
question we cannot see if VO is not working? I am eager to see if this helps me 
when VO goes down on my mini.

Kristeen


> On Apr 23, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> cmd-shift-q still requires a response, whereas cmd-option-shift-q will log 
> you out right away.  The difference being that if your Mac wants a 
> confirmation, and as a VO user, you're unable to do so, then you're hooped 
> and have to do the forced shutdown as you did.  When I use the 
> cmd-option-shift-q,m I get logged out right away, and then I can log back in 
> again with VO working properly the second time.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 14:16, Robert Cole  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> I had already thought to log out with cmd+shift+Q.
> But I still had no speech.
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 10:56 PM, Tim Kilburn > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Two things to note here.  First, if you're able to take a snap-shot, then 
>> the System has not crashed, just probably the speech synthesizer.  Instead 
>> of holding down the power button, press cmd-option-shift-q to log out of the 
>> current user without any prompts.  This will take you back to the Login 
>> window and when you login the second time, VO should start normally.  I've 
>> seen this issue on occasion, but haven't figured out why it's happening.  
>> Second thing to note is that when you take a screen shot, the resulting png 
>> file is always placed on your Desktop.  It will be titled Screen Shot 
>> followed the time stamp of the snap shot.  It will remain on the Desktop 
>> until you remove it, unless you've logged in as the Guest user, for which 
>> anything on the Desktop is lost at logout.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 12:39, Robert Cole > > wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Alex,
>> After booting my Mac, I had speech on the log on window, but not after 
>> logging into my user account.
>> Pressing cmd+F5 did nothing.
>> I pressed the commands to take a system snapshot as you suggested. Since I 
>> had no speech, I had to hole down the power button to shut down.
>> after rebooting and logging 
>> back in, how do I find the system snapshot, and what is its name?
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>  
>> 
>>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's a new one for me. My only suggestion is to try something that worked 
>>> for me: if you're using portable preferences with VoiceOver, stop using 
>>> them and see if the problem persists. If you're already not using them, all 
>>> I can suggest is to grab a system snapshot and email it to Apple 
>>> Accessibility. To do this, wait for the problem to happen, then press 
>>> command, option, control, shift, and period, all at once. After ten minutes 
>>> or so, Finder will open to the results, a large file you can email with 
>>> Maildrop or via a cloud service.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 14, 2018, at 11:21, Kristeen Hughes > wrote:
 
 I have a Mac Mini from 2016. This has also happened on previous Minis. I 
 have never known it to occur on a laptop. I will be listening to music and 
 I will quicklook another type of sound file or even sometimes a file that 
 uses voiceover. I’m guessing that two sounds hit the in a very specific 
 way and I lose not only the voice of voiceover, but all of it’s 
 functionality as well. Other apps are still open and functioning, and, for 
 example, if I can command+tab to iTunes, I can pause it. However, any VO 
 command results in the default sound you get if you are at the top or 
 bottom of a file or.
 
 Is there any way to restore VO without rebooting the computer?
 
 Thanks.
 
 Kristeen
 
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Re: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?

[Donna Goodin]

I figured, Simon.  I couldn't imagine that a cell provider would miss a chance 
to get a few more $$. lol
Cheers,
Donna
> On Apr 29, 2018, at 3:45 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I can't say exactly but I believe some of the US mobile providers had a plan 
> for something like 5 dollars as an additional charge to the existing plan for 
> the phone,
> But yes be the answer,
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 2:07 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Does Apple Watch with cellular require a separate data plan?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> My husband is looking at getting an Apple Watch.  I'm assuming the answer to 
> the question in the subject line is yes, but thought I would check just in 
> case.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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