Re: Repairing permissions, should I close all apps?
Hello Lynn and all: Hahaha. The challenge of lists like these you will get two answers which are conflicting (smile). Your question was ... is it necessary? No, it is not absolutely necessary. Is it a good idea? If it limits the confusion that may result from apps being open then by all means close them all so you only have to keep track of the one activity. And, if it assists in providing you with a little piece of mind ... good heavens close them and run permissions. Not a black and white answer I know though somehow I get the feeling this is the answer which will produce the best results (grin). Good luck and let us know how it goes. On Feb 5, 2010, at 7:10 AM, Chantel Cuddemi wrote: No. On Feb 5, 2010, at 6:11 AM, Lynn Schneider wrote: Hi everyone. If you are having problems with your system and you want to repair permissions to try and fix them, is it necessary to close all apps first? I noticed that last time I repaired permissions, it did fix a bad Safari problem, but when I looked at the log, it showed that certain files were not able to be opened or something like that. I'm going to try repairing permissions again just as a routine maintenance thing, but this time maybe I would turn Voiceover off first? I just wanted to know what you all thought. I don't exactly understand what repairing permissions does, but I noticed that when I had to force quit Safari because it was acting up on several occasions, I repaired permissions and it made Safari like new again, so it does indeed work sometimes. I crashed the new iTunes already this morning, so thought I'd repair permissions just to make sure things were on the right track for this new version. Thanks in advance for any insights. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: new member
Hello Lynda: Welcome to the list and congratulations on purchasing a new mac. You will find people here quite friendly and willing to support you in learning anything you want to learn using your computer. Please do not hesitate to ask any question because if you ask it rest assured someone else was wondering the exact same thing (smile). I hope you enjoy your time with the list and much success with your mac. Be well and again ... welcome. On Jan 31, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Lyn Twinny wrote: Hi everyone, Just thought I'd send a short message to briefly introduce myself as I have just joined the list. I am Lynda, 36 from France. I recently bought a Mac book and therefore ama new mac user. I hope to learn a lot about everything Voice over and the mac can offer. Take care all Lyn Twinny -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: MobileNavigator for North America
Hello Scott and all: Manual? Manual! Manual. What manual (smile). If you or anyone else finds it ... well ... you will win a fantastic prize (grin). Have not found a manual and I have been using it since it first came out. Of course, there is the FAQ on the site though that is about it. As for the unlabeled button I have only found one and that is the product information button. If there are others please let me know. As for switching to the pedestrian mode: 1. open the program and select show map 2. Double tap on show map 3. double tap on options and search for route profile 4. Double tap on route profile and once there search for speed profile. 5. Double tap on speed profile and then look for pedestrian and double tap. That should do it. I believe there is a setting for announce street names that is by default turned off. If you follow the same procedure to find options that you did before it should be on the introductory screen towards the bottom. If you turn that on you may find the feature that you seek. My uncertainty is that I have not used this feature for walking since the new update however when driving from Nashville to Alabama it announced every single exit and street along I-65. If navigon is anything it is consistent up til this point and that should work for the pedestrian setting as well. Let us know how it goes and I might have to give that a shot myself this weekend. On Oct 29, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Patrick, I in fact did purchase it last night. FIrst let me say that other than a couple of unlabeled buttons, it is very accessible and yes I dropped them a note. I've been communicating with a gal named Michelle Collier. In any event, since I had no opportunity other than when I was riding on the bus, I just plugged in my address, which I knew I'd be getting off to meet my wife and ride the rest of the way in our truck. I live a ways out and there's no bus, plane, or train. :) MobileNavigator figured out where I was and even when I got off the bus and started the final leg of my trip, it got us home and was quite accurate in telling me where I was. Now the only thing I haven't figured out is one where the manual is on their site and that might help with a few questions. Second, I'm not sure if there is a setting to switch from walking mode or car mode etc. I can't recall if you or someone said this was automatic and if you did, sorry my mind isn't what it used to be; it's quite clogged with stuff these days. The settings screen is a little confusing only since it seems some items are replicated, but the buttons show in some places and not others. This may be more a case of not being familiar with it since I only spent about 30 minutes playing with it and in that time I was very impressed. So, the next test is to setup a walking route and see how it functions. ONe recommendation I did pass along that would be more a nice feature, but not necessary is while in the walking mode, it would have a user selectable option to announce each street you encounter. That is more just to be familiar with the area than anything else and again just a Gee that would be nice feature and certainly not a deal breaker for me. So, overall I'm impressed, but I have a little learning yet to do. If you happen to know where I can locate the manual, I'd appreciate any info. It may be on their site, but my searching and poking around just didn't quite seem to be able to find it. THanks for the input, it helped me make the decision to purchase and I think it was a very worthwhile investment. On Oct 28, 2009, at 8:14 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Scott and all: You are welcome. I am glad that the information proved useful. The only addition I would make is something I alluded to earlier. When and if you purchase the software, give it a test in an environment in which you may not be as familiar. The biggest challenge was the I no where I am going syndrome which is not the greatest way to evaluate the GPS. Now, admittedly, there is a possibility of becoming completely lost (smile) although that happens sometimes even under the best of circumstances. Until I took it for a spin in a place where I had to rely upon the software, I really did not discover how good it is. Of course, there is always the potential for error though this app really rocks. Let us know how it goes if you decide to purchase it. On Oct 28, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Hey, actually this was very helpful and this will definitely help me make that decision. That is exactly what I was looking for, is some real field experience. Thanks a lot. On Oct 28, 2009, at 3:54 AM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Scott: You have probably gotten all of the information you require and need to make a decision though I wanted to chime in. Navigon is a FANTASTIC app. I have now tried it in 5 cities ... 3 of which I have never
Re: MobileNavigator for North America
Hello Scott: You have probably gotten all of the information you require and need to make a decision though I wanted to chime in. Navigon is a FANTASTIC app. I have now tried it in 5 cities ... 3 of which I have never been to. It has not let me down yet though it might in the future (smile). As long as you take a moment to become familiar with the software it will be as reliable as any other GPS solution. I last used it in Birmingham AL to find the bus station from the train station. As long as I was willing to follow the instructions (the major downfall of GPS systems most of the time) ... worked like a charm (smile). Definitely worth the money in my limited humble opinion. On Oct 26, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Folks, I had asked about GPS solutions and I got only one response from Alex about a product I presume is in development called GDA. However, I did learn of the MobileNavigator app from the Maccessibility website and I am curious if anyone has tried this application. For $90 U.S. I would not be willing to just toss my money down in hopes it does work, I'd like to know if anyone has used it and their thoughts. I'm looking for a solution that will provide me the necessary information to get from one location to another. THis means if I exit a building and decide I need to be at another location, I want the software to figure out where I am, and provide me the information necessary to reach the next destination. Thanks, Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ISpectrum for the IPhone
Hello Scott: I found ISpectrum to be accessible though clunky to use. I could locate the button and take the picture. However, after that the touchpad became sluggish and I would have to lock the screen and then unlock it to continue. I sometimes would have to do this several times. When I did finally reach the final product it was sometimes difficult to locate the portion of the screen which contains the color you photographed. The actual photographed color is surrounded by a black frame so for a while I thought everything in my wardrobe was black (smile). I knew it was not and then I discovered that if I located the frame and prowled around I could find the color. It did best with warmer colors ... red, purple, violet ... you get the picture. With browns and blacks and gray ... definitely mixed results. For what that is worth. On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Folks, has anyone tried the color identifier called iSpectrum, which is for the iPhone? I happen to see this app on the Maccessibility.net site and was wondering how accurate it is. Thanks, Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: MobileNavigator for North America
Hello Christina and all: You are most welcome. If you have any other questions that might assist in your decision on purchasing it or if you purchase it and have questions do not hesitate to ask. And no, even though that sounded like a salesperson quotation I do not receive a dime if anyone purchases navigon (smile). On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Christina wrote: Yes, that helps, thanks so much. :) On Oct 28, 2009, at 11:28 AM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Christina and all: Yes, your questions make sense (smile). Navigon has a few speed settings ... car, motorcycle, bicycle, and pedestrian. There might be one other though I am not looking at it at this moment. If you select a setting the receiver gets an idea of how fast you might be going and thereby will calibrate information accordingly. So, if you are on foot the receiver knows you will not be going at 60 MPH (smile). If you are riding on a bus you can use navigon to track where you are thereby reducing the need to rely exclusively upon a driver calling out the street names. Does that help any? Let us know. On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Christina wrote: So, does Navigon work well when on foot as aposed to being in a car? Does it work while on a city bus? I hope my questions make sense? I mean, does it know you're walking or does it think you're in a car? Thanks, Christina On Oct 28, 2009, at 12:54 AM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Scott: You have probably gotten all of the information you require and need to make a decision though I wanted to chime in. Navigon is a FANTASTIC app. I have now tried it in 5 cities ... 3 of which I have never been to. It has not let me down yet though it might in the future (smile). As long as you take a moment to become familiar with the software it will be as reliable as any other GPS solution. I last used it in Birmingham AL to find the bus station from the train station. As long as I was willing to follow the instructions (the major downfall of GPS systems most of the time) ... worked like a charm (smile). Definitely worth the money in my limited humble opinion. On Oct 26, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Folks, I had asked about GPS solutions and I got only one response from Alex about a product I presume is in development called GDA. However, I did learn of the MobileNavigator app from the Maccessibility website and I am curious if anyone has tried this application. For $90 U.S. I would not be willing to just toss my money down in hopes it does work, I'd like to know if anyone has used it and their thoughts. I'm looking for a solution that will provide me the necessary information to get from one location to another. THis means if I exit a building and decide I need to be at another location, I want the software to figure out where I am, and provide me the information necessary to reach the next destination. Thanks, Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Checking VoiceMail on Skype
Hello Eleni and all: Here is the way to check voicemail using skype ... I am operating from the premise that you are using version 2.8.0.722 1. Open skype (you probably knew that one already ... smile). 2. VO right arrow to the button after your name and a dollar amount (which should be $0 if you did not purchase skype credit). If you perform a vo + h on the button it should say show missed events. 3. perform a vo + spacebar on this button 4. vo right arrow until you hear a table. 5. Interact with this table and when you hear a line that says ... new voice mail from ... person X do the following 6. perform a vo + shift + m as in Mary. This will bring up the context menu. The first selection should be listen. 7. Press enter to select listen and your voicemail should start playing. When the voicemail is finished, return to that table, find the next new voicemail and bring up the context menu again. FYI ... if you know that you have received a voicemail and you just do not see it ... vo right arrow until you find the show history button. activate that and it will show you all of the calls you have received that you have not deleted. I hope this has been useful. Please let me know if it has or if it has just left you more confused (smile). Be well. On Oct 20, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Eleni Vamvakari wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to check voicemail on Skype with the Mac. I thought it was far easier here than with Windows but I can't seem to remember how to do it. I've downloaded the latest update, so am not sure if that's causing the problem. I could've sworn there are some packages (even for Windows) for checking voicemail on there. Isn't there one for the blind too? I actually have Voice Recorder for the mac but it's no help when I can't check my messages. Thanks, Eleni Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: printer sharing
Hello Christos and all: Believe it or not, it is that simple (smile). Plug in the express, set up your network (following the prompts), plug in the printer, add it and that is all. Could not believe it myself (grin). On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:49 PM, christos hux wrote: Hi out there has anyone done a printer sharing setup with the apple airport express base station? I am looking into doing this for the very first time. On the apple airport express webpage it just says that you plug in the printer to the usb port on the back of the base station then add the printer to your printer list on either the mac or pc. surely there is more to this then just doing what is on that webpage? christos warren from gdf Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iceberg reader
Hello all: I am posting a question to all 3 lists because this question impacts macs and the iphone. Does anyone have any experience with any of the iceberg reader material available in the itunes store? Thank you for any responses. Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: determining people's status on skype
Hello Anna and all: If your setting is show offline contacts, the online contacts automatically appear at the top of the list. You can set it to only show online contacts. This works though if you attempt to send a request to someone you will not know if they receive the request until they show up. I sent a request to someone and kept seeing his name on the bottom of the list which meant he either did not see my request or it never made it to him. So, I emailed him and we got it straightened out. If I had selected show only online contacts I might not have noticed. Either way works. Whatever you are comfortable with. Be well. On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Woody Anna Dresner wrote: Hi, How can I find out whether a Skype contact is online? Thanks, Anna Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Universal design
Hello Chris and all: Yes, I am a fan of more carrots and less stick if possible. Sticks are easy to make though I do not know anyone who enjoys being hit by one no matter how worthy or just the cause (grin). The best way to accomplish what is desired is to reward apple for their innovation with both financial and public support. As a trainer there is nothing cooler than showing a parent a talking ipod, having them purchase one for their child, having the child take it to school and the child being queen or king for the day and possibly longer (grin). That is priceless and customer loyalty will be established forever (grin). And just think, people thought it just played music (grin). On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be rewarded for implementing universal design. I could then point to it as an example of what happens when a company does things right. I have lots of examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, PriceLine, Ramada and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less stick when I do presentations to developers or at conferences. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Hello Chris the Other, I agree with your thoughts on universal design. Six or seven years ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were downloading daily content from audible.com and listening on a PAC Mate as they went from client to client in their cars. this, I suppose, was a bit of accidental universal design. Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle where the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of the box and no features are inaccessible to any portion of a large universe of potential users. I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along other mainstream players and that we'll start to see the blinkosphere expand along with the universe. cdh On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and public shared community knowledge which extending the value and uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make an existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with it for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being a niche product it will never have the vast array of cases, docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader to a PC is another big example which connected another audience to a large existing universe of tools. One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for our use. To make a robot that could only interface with special robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this idea can have application in accessible technology. Creating helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will bring the greatest long term success. Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to make sure they know how they can improve for our segment of the universe. With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with its built in accessibility. As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up in a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot less and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto. cdh On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Krister and all: I would have just written I agree in this message though that would chew up unnecessary bandwidth
Re: skype
Hello Louie and all: I received the same email. I do not quite know why when you did the update you were told you were up to date with skype 2.7. 2.8.0.659 is running here. On Aug 13, 2009, at 1:04 PM, louie wrote: Hi all, I got a e-mail from skype saying that there was a update to version 2.8. I ran skype and did a manual update. Skype told me that I was up to date with version 2.7??. What is up with this? Thanks for any info. louie louiem...@wavecable.com Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: skype
Hello Will: Yes. More of the buttons are labeled without the need to use vo + H. Phone information such as new voicemail and the phone number are spoken in the table. Good improvements ... I would get it today (smile) On Aug 13, 2009, at 1:27 PM, william lomas wrote: any improvements accesswise? On 13 Aug 2009, at 18:20, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Louie and all: I received the same email. I do not quite know why when you did the update you were told you were up to date with skype 2.7. 2.8.0.659 is running here. On Aug 13, 2009, at 1:04 PM, louie wrote: Hi all, I got a e-mail from skype saying that there was a update to version 2.8. I ran skype and did a manual update. Skype told me that I was up to date with version 2.7??. What is up with this? Thanks for any info. louie louiem...@wavecable.com Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone - Task Switching?
Hello Krister and all: I would have just written I agree in this message though that would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am not usually a get it off my chester though ... I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it measures up to a community specific product, that is like comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already exists for $70. I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, I and others might have to access the information in a manner which is new or initially uncomfortable though that does not make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does make the product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it is perfectly acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, not fit a second persons needs, and still be both a good product which can always be improved. Opened myself up for trouble (grin). On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as they say in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my chest before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard gps solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if Navigon as a standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us around the place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if someone could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it in action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and Mobile geo. /Krister 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: Hi, FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. Chris On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 william lomas lomaswill...@googlemail.com wrote: what will the update in december contain for navigon? On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on this stuff soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know the least about as I only used it for a month or so about a year ago. Almost all of the players in the AT biz are using the same Sendero engine. So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory are all about the same underneath but have different UI that one can pick from. Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, I would suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out an update expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't already have something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite yet. These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result of messing around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been using Mobile Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my favorite but that is likely because it is the one with which I'm most familiar. cdh On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at present i am a wayfinder user and want to hear how it compares On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month and a half, I hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running tasks. Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA using Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after hanging up, I couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at some things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I could not get back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street names and such. I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on task switching and background task using VO's search facility as well as the one in Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that this would be too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the search criteria I can think up. Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the manual to see what I might be able to find. Happy Hacking, cdh -- Chris G cgrabowsk...@gmail.com Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en
Re: Universal design
Hello Chris and all: Agreed. On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and public shared community knowledge which extending the value and uses far beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the mainstream or universal access argument. If you can simply make an existing thing accessible you get the universe that goes with it for free. The VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being a niche product it will never have the vast array of cases, docking stations, FM tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader to a PC is another big example which connected another audience to a large existing universe of tools. One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for our use. To make a robot that could only interface with special robot tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this idea can have application in accessible technology. Creating helper devices (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, deaf, low cognition, ambulatory or whatever will bring the greatest long term success. Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy who uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, to follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to make sure they know how they can improve for our segment of the universe. With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with its built in accessibility. As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them against each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of things it does much better than the AT solutions (will show up in a blog entry soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things better. For instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is just about the only solution. It also costs a whole lot less and, in my opinion, is vastly more precise. All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto. cdh On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Krister and all: I would have just written I agree in this message though that would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with that statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am not usually a get it off my chester though ... I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it measures up to a community specific product, that is like comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what seems to be wanted is a blind specific product that already exists for $70. I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for the $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, I and others might have to access the information in a manner which is new or initially uncomfortable though that does not make the product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does make the product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it is perfectly acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, not fit a second persons needs, and still be both a good product which can always be improved. Opened myself up for trouble (grin). On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as they say in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my chest before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard gps solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if Navigon as a standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us around the place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if someone could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it in action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and Mobile geo. /Krister 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10
Re: iPhone - Task Switching?
Hello there: Strange. I must be the local contrarian (smile). Attempted to duplicate the problem by having someone ... actually a few someones call while performing a route in Navigon. I could not reproduce it. At the end of the call I performed the 2 finger double tap and navigon was still there. Did you answer the call via the 2 finger double tap and end it that way or some other way. Really wanting to make this happen in order that I might understand. Sorry not to be of more assistance on this one. On Aug 10, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: I'm not very familiar with Navagon but in general there are no background tasks on the iPhone so when you receive a call whatever you were doing gets put on hold. The has been a complaint when folks use GPSes that show breadcrumb trails or calculate real time routes as they stop working while on the phone and can get in a weird state. Did you try just going home and then restarting navigon? iPhone apps are supposed to keep their state information so when you come back its as though you never left. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month and a half, I hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running tasks. Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA using Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after hanging up, I couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at some things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I could not get back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street names and such. I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on task switching and background task using VO's search facility as well as the one in Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that this would be too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the search criteria I can think up. Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the manual to see what I might be able to find. Happy Hacking, cdh Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: reading books on the iphone
Hello Greg and all: Thank you for your email. Do you have any information about the iceberg reader? I observe that many books in the itunes store seem to be using this. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I ask because some books though stated as being available in audio form in the itunes store are now only available in iceberg reader. Thank you for any response you might send. On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Greg Kearney wrote: Here is my sad report on the state of iPhone book reading applications on the iPhone Touch. I downloaded the following ebook reading application: eReader Stanza Kindle RN eReader I am sorry to report that none of these applications are accessible with voiceover on the iphone. With the exception of Stanza none permit you to even see the list of installed books. Further it would seem from my study that the inaccessibility would appear to be a deliberate decision and not some kind of programming error as not having an accessible interface in the iPhone require the developer to deliberately choose to develop a none accessible control. Stanza may well be a design flaw as the issue there is not the inability to reach and read but one of not being able to turn the pages due to the assumption of a single tap on the right or left hand side of the screen. I am unsure why the developers of ebook readers have decided to implement their readers as they have. I suspect it may be due to the Author's Guild suit in the U.S. against the Kindle reader. Gregory Kearney Manager - Accessible Media Association for the Blind of Western Australia 61 Kitchener Avenue, PO Box 101 Victoria Park 6979, WA Australia Telephone: +61 (08) 9311 8202 Telephone: +1 (307) 224-4022 (North America) Fax: +61 (08) 9361 8696 Toll free: 1800 658 388 (Australia only) Email: gkear...@gmail.com On 09/08/2009, at 9:20 PM, Tasha Raella Chemel wrote: Hi, I have posted about this on the other list, but does anyone use the iphone as a bookreading device to read text or html books? If so, ho well does it work to read continuously, and do you often find yourself losing your place? Has anyone used the bookmarklet that allows you to execute the find command in an html file? Are there other accessible word-processing applications that include a find command? Thanks, tasha Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari Sounds
Hello there: Just chiming in. It happens here as well. No loading sound and the website does not matter. On Aug 6, 2009, at 9:30 PM, rayna424 wrote: Yes yes yes. I have been noticing this as of late. Its not with any specific web page. It seems to happen at random. I'm so used to hearing the page load sound, that I don't hear it and think my internet is being slow. I just now turned on group mode to play with it, and its not playing loading sounds it all, it seems. You are not the only one noticing this. Rayna Barry Hadder wrote: I'm just wondering if anybody else has noticed that in many instances the page load sound doesn't occur. An example is www.lioncourt.com. I think it's more tied to VO as the status text under the VO cursor doesn't seem to update while a page is loading, but when I place the mouse over it, I see that it is. Aside from the fact that it is a little bit of a nuisance, my main concern is whether or not the page is loading correctly. It has seemed to me that group mode has been much more inconsistent as of late. Of course, it's good that it isn't crashing all the time. I would appreciate any comments or solutions. Thanks. Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A question for you iphone users who also use windows mobile
Hello Christian and all: I am sitting next to a symbian 60 phone which functions plenty enough like a windows mobile phone. On the other side of me is an iphone. I only use the sym 60 phone when it rings ... LOL. Other than that the iphone pretty much has replaced it. On Jul 31, 2009, at 9:21 PM, Christian wrote: Hi all, I am currently using Windows Mobile with MSP and was just wondering how you Windows Mobile users find the iphone with VoiceOver? Have you allmost replaced your old Windows mobile phone with this one? From what I have read I think I would have done it myself, but since I have not been able to fully tried it i am not sure. Was just curious! Many thanks, Christian Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: using my own music as a ringtone
Hello Kim and all: The two things that tripped me up when making ringtones from my own music ... or any music for that matter were: 1. When you create the AAC version in itunes you must make sure you delete it from the songs list in itunes before you run it from the desktop 2. Make sure that the M4A file is the only version of the file contained within your itunes folder viewed in finder and that you run the M4R file from your desktop. Hopefully that sheds some light on the situation. On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Kim Carmichael wrote: OK, thanks. It is definitely less than 40 seconds. It is a short beep. I'll keep trying and maybe I'll luck up. Thanks Kim -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Panarese Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:23 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: using my own music as a ringtone Off the top of my head, and I admit that I'm wiped out, I'd be sure the files are less than 40 seconds in length. I followed the steps of first selecting the piece of the song that I wanted as the tone, converting it to AAC, copying the m4a file to my desktop and then changing the extension to m4r before then playing it. This has worked for me every time. Again, though, make sure the file is under 40 seconds. Take Care John D. Panarese Managing Director Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc. 9 Nolan Court Hauppauge, NY 11788 Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479 Email, t...@optonline.net Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA, PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS, DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:18 PM, Kim Carmichael wrote: Hi I created the m4a file, then changed the file extension to m4r and played it in iTunes. When I go to ring tones and search for the file name the list comes up empty. Do you have an idea what I missed? Thanks Kim -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Panarese Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:53 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: using my own music as a ringtone Someone can correct me if there is another way, but you'd have to first convert the MP3 file into an AAC file in iTunes. Then, manually change the extension from M4A to M4R. Then play it in iTunes and it should be added to your ring tones list. Take Care John Panarese On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:39 AM, william lomas wrote: hi on the i phone how can I get my mp3's to play as a ringtone? ? Will Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: aim acount on mail
Hello Marie and all: Are you attempting to do this in apple mail? On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send emails, but it seems to not want to download from the server. am I missing something? Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: aim acount on mail
Hello Marie and all: I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can receive email. Am I correct so far? The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email? I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not getting through to you? Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand. On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the account, I checked on the web. On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Marie and all: Are you attempting to do this in apple mail? On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send emails, but it seems to not want to download from the server. am I missing something? Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: aim acount on mail
Hello Marie and all: Well, if they are emails coming in then are you sure that the account is set to Imap as opposed to pop and both the address and ports are correct? This has probably already been answered and you are probably having a great time already with incoming mail (smile) On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: no, but I confused you :) that part is working fine. it's emails coming in that well, are not coming in. :) On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Marie and all: This sounds like the evil smtp server problem (grin). Of course the questions you have heard all before most likely 1. is your smtp information correct ... the address ... proper port numbers ... etc according to aim 2. Using the mail menus ... in particular ... the bring all accounts online option in the mailbox menu ... have you checked to make sure the accounts are online? 3. this next point might have absolutely nothing to do with this though it might shed a little light on something. when you compose an email ... before sending it use VO + left arrow to move to the left of the body of the message. You should hear ... from followed by an email address pop up button. use VO + spacebar to click on that button and see if you have other email addresses in that list. If you have an aim address in that list ... select it and then move to the right using VO + right arrow. you should hear it say ... outgoing server. If it is not the server you think should be used for the aim account use VO + spacebar to activate the pop up button and see if you can find the appropriate server. If you find it ... select it and then attempt to send the email. The reason I make that last suggestion because it will shed some light as to whether or not mail is seeing things properly. I hope I have not confused the situation more than is necessary. On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: OK, I confuse myself often lol. I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've attempted to send an email from another account to test that the account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app. On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Marie and all: I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can receive email. Am I correct so far? The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email? I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not getting through to you? Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand. On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the account, I checked on the web. On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Hello Marie and all: Are you attempting to do this in apple mail? On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote: has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send emails, but it seems to not want to download from the server. am I missing something? Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iphone cal ending
Hello Simon and all: There are a few ways to end a call. 1. Double tap the screen with two fingers similar to the way you would double tap the phone when starting or stopping a song in itunes. remember when double tapping the phone to keep your fingers apart a little or else the phone might think you have one really large finger. No, I am not kidding about that last point 2. When the call is over you can press the lock screen button on the top of the phone. This does lock the screen and you will have to unlock it again to use the features of the phone. Hopefully this information is of some use to you. Let us know. On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote: Hi folks. Can someone please tell me how, while using VO on my iphone, ow do I turn off a call? I can make one not a probl;em but I'm having tourble ending the call when I want. Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: review of OCR now for the Iphone
Hello John and all: Thank you for posting this link to the post describing OCR Now Lite. I had been holding back on taking a look at this app though this description has given me the push to give it a go. Thank you so much. If I like it I will have you to thank for it. On Jul 20, 2009, at 12:12 AM, John J Herzog wrote: Hi listers, While reading about the accessible apps for the Iphone, I came across this review of OCR now. It is written by a gentlemen who uses voiceover, and I found it both informative and humerous at parts. For anybody interested, the link is here. http://aloadofoldsquit.blogspot.com/2009/06/ocrnow-lite-for-iphone-3gs.html regards, John Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IPhone accessibility
Hello Simon and all: One question you might want to consider is the issue of expandability. I am a user of a nokia 6650 with Mobile Speak and I love it. However, the number of applications that will work with it is not as robust as the Iphone. Second, while both my Mobile Speak and voiceover upgrades are free, the method of upgrading is quite different. I do not know about talks because I have never used it. However, if it is anything like Mobile Speak I cannot upgrade it independently. The only reason I make a point of this is the ability of being able to keep up with the latest updates to a system rather than being one step behind. Furthermore, does it make sense to have to pay a transfer cost if you either lose your phone or decide you want or need a new one. In the case of Mobile Speak, if you change phones for whatever reason there is a transfer cost. I do not know how it works with Talks. If I want another Iphone I just get another Iphone without incurring any additional costs for things beyond my control which may have resulted in the phone's loss or just for the freedom of wanting something different. There are a few more reasons I can mention though I will point out only one more ... with this arrangement of the Iphone and ATT, the entire customer service flow is for the first time under one roof. If I have a problem with the Iphone I am able to take it to ATT and they can be of assistance without necessarily farming it out to someone else and if they do farm it out to someone else ... that would be Apple and they would know that I am on the way (smile). With Mobile Speak it could be a mobile speak issue which I would have to go to Code Factory, it could be a phone problem where Nokia would have to be called in, it could be a billing problem where the Phone company would have to be tapped and, if I had a problem with the actual purchase of Mobile Speak and I did not purchase it from Code Factory I then would have to deal with ATT's office of national disability concerns which is a completely separate operation from ATT. I like the one umbrella that the Iphone has the potential to provide. I have both and love both and see the advantages to each. Just my two cents contributed to the discussion. No matter what your final conclusion, it will be a good one. Take good care. On Jul 19, 2009, at 4:35 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: Yeah, I had a sit down and play with the I phone for about an hour today and I gotta admit, the biggest problem is familiarity. I'm so use to the Nokia and talks interface that the IPhones system is not as efficient yet as I would have hoped. However I gotta admit that I am thinking of reasons why I shouldn't change to one at this point, and the only reason so far is that my n82 does everything that the iphone does and that I need it to. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kaare dehard Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2009 7:29 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IPhone accessibility Honestly given what I have heard/read, because this interface is so very different from what we have grown accustomed to, it's probably tough to get fixed on it right away. it's probably a let's forget about the old wisdom or at least set it aside while looking in to this and start from the ground. So, in a nutshell this is more like a slow growth to understanding product rather than something that can be quickly affixed. On 18-Jul-09, at 7:10 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: Hi folks, Just wondering how many of you that are now using the Ipone 3gs, are totally blind rather than the partially / Visually impaired users. The device to me sounds more like it's for a VI person than a totally blind person. I'm total and I'm trying to compare this for useage / accessibility against my Nokia s60 device. And as I've only had a very quick play with the IPhone 3gs I can't say I'm fixed on it yet. And I'm keen to hear how the totally blind users are getting on with it. Cheers Simonf. Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IPhone accessibility
Hello Simon and all: I will refrain from answering the question pertaining to battery life because that is a variable thing depending upon usage. I will leave that to others (smile). However, in regard to messaging one of the things I like about the iphone as opposed to my Nokia is that I can follow the thread of a message all at once rather than open multiple messages to keep track of a message. That in my opinion is a nice feature. So, If I wanted milk, bread, and gatorade I can track the whole back and forth texting about the shopping trip to narrow down why mash potatoes came threw the door when I did not know they were coming ... LOL. I know that has never happened to anyone ... LOL On Jul 19, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: Thanks peggy, I'm now wondering what sort of battery life people get from the IPhone when using Voice over!? How much more of a strain on the devices battery does vo put? also, no one has said anything about using text / sms messaging on the device either. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Fleischer Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2009 8:37 a.m. To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IPhone accessibility Hi: I'm totally blind and use the Iphone 3gs. I use the mail, the phone, the notes and the voice recorder. I love the Ipod and reading books from audible and playing games when sitting around for a few minutes. I find it easier to use twitter and facebook with my phone than with my computer. I even store my favorite recipes on my phone. Today I went into a store to shop for a purse. I found one I liked but didn't like the price so I typed the name of the purse in the notes on my phone and came home to find it at a better price on line. I also accessed my grocery list I had stored on the phone. My newspaper is also accessed from my phone. wonderful device and not just for the partially sighted. Peggy Fleischer peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen. On Jul 18, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: Hi folks, Just wondering how many of you that are now using the Ipone 3gs, are totally blind rather than the partially / Visually impaired users. The device to me sounds more like it's for a VI person than a totally blind person. I'm total and I'm trying to compare this for useage / accessibility against my Nokia s60 device. And as I've only had a very quick play with the IPhone 3gs I can't say I'm fixed on it yet. And I'm keen to hear how the totally blind users are getting on with it. Cheers Simonf. Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Could you please explain how Item chooser more powerful?
Hello James and all: Well, I can give an example of the power of the item chooser which might shed some light. When using facebook in the beginning I was completely lost. Specifically, as you know, there is a feature on facebook which allows you to send a private message to someone. For the life of me I could not find the edit boxes where one was supposed to enter the text. And, if I did find it using conventional browsing techniques, the edit boxes lost focus. When activating the item chooser I could type in the word edit and get a limited number of choices, and the first three choices were the edit fields I required to enter text. I could enter the text without losing focus and I could find the send button by performing the same activation of the item chooser, typing send which pulled up the send button and then using vo keys plus the space bar to activate the send button. The item chooser will assist person's in finding things that are there though might be difficult to get to. I know that might sound like either an over simplification or an item specific example and Josh most likely could do a better job in explaining. However, this feature is, as Josh said, not just useful on the web. It has assisted me in successfully using applications such as iphoto ... Hopefully that sheds a little light on the topic for you and hopefully you find some of this useful. Take good care. On Jul 18, 2009, at 6:31 AM, James Nash wrote: Hello Josh, Could you please explain a bit more about how exactly it is more powerful? Everytime I've used it Item Chooser seemed to be just a smart search that was clever enough to only show results which contained certain letters. Thanks James - Original Message - From: Josh de Lioncourt To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:49 AM Subject: Re: searching for specefic text on a webpage VoiceOver has a function called Item Chooser which is available anywhere, not just on the web. When you press it, it brings up a sort of menu of everything being displayed in the window. If you type a few letters in, the menu shrinks to only include items which contain the letters you typed. It is actually much nicer than a traditional find command, as you are describing, and a whole lot more powerful. :) HTH. Josh de Lioncourt …my other mail provider is an owl… Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt Music: http://stage19music.com Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:30 PM, a radix wrote: Hi everyone, Currently on windows I use hal 7.0 and webformator for surfing the web. Webformator displays the webpage in a sort of text- file which allows you to just browse it, i mean go through it all with arrow up/down and tab to go to link/link. You can use (and that is the one great feature I love about webformator) control-f to search for specefic text in a webpage. Since it is a text file (sort off, you can stiull click on links) it does not restrict you to link but will also instantly point you to a word in the actual body of the webpage, i often visit forums etc that I know quite well and find this feature very useful because it means I can navigate them quickly and efficiently. Also since, once again its a text file I can search for for example combobox in the control-f dialog and it will bring me to the first of these. I wonder if anything like this exists in safari-voiceover? I am actually hoping that transition will be easier for me becaus eI hav emostly been using a kin dof dumb screenreader, just using the windows commands and not many screenreader ocmmands at all so I am hoping I will be able to adapt quickly. Greetings, Anouk, Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: searching for specefic text on a webpage
Hello Jonathan and all: It would appear your complaint is with vo lock and not with item chooser. with vo lock enabled, there are many things you cannot do. For example, if I wanted to type this email with vo locked that would not work either because of the reality of vo being locked and pressing the letter A for example. that would produce the read all function. SECOND, MANY APPLICATIONS AND FUNCTIONS PERFORM SLOWER ON OLDER MACHINES GIVEN THAT MORE PROCESSING POWER IS NECESSARY FOR MORE RECENT APPLICATIONS AND IMPROVEMENTS. ITEM CHOOSER DOES WORK AND DOES DO WHAT it is advertised to do. If you wish to take advantage of it and if your machine has the capacity to take advantage of it are two completely different questions. I am not wanting to disagree or minimize your experiences. I just wanted to clarify that item chooser does work as advertised. Take good care. On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: My main complaint with item chooser is that it does not work properly if VO lock is enabled. The find command accespts letter keys as letters when in VO-lock while the item chooser just beeps and won't even let you turn off vo-lock. Since I am running on a 5 year old Macintosh this is a problem. Item chooser will take 15-20 seconds on a long web page. Jon On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote: VoiceOver has a function called Item Chooser which is available anywhere, not just on the web. When you press it, it brings up a sort of menu of everything being displayed in the window. If you type a few letters in, the menu shrinks to only include items which contain the letters you typed. It is actually much nicer than a traditional find command, as you are describing, and a whole lot more powerful. :) HTH. Josh de Lioncourt …my other mail provider is an owl… Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt Music: http://stage19music.com Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:30 PM, a radix wrote: Hi everyone, Currently on windows I use hal 7.0 and webformator for surfing the web. Webformator displays the webpage in a sort of text-file which allows you to just browse it, i mean go through it all with arrow up/down and tab to go to link/link. You can use (and that is the one great feature I love about webformator) control-f to search for specefic text in a webpage. Since it is a text file (sort off, you can stiull click on links) it does not restrict you to link but will also instantly point you to a word in the actual body of the webpage, i often visit forums etc that I know quite well and find this feature very useful because it means I can navigate them quickly and efficiently. Also since, once again its a text file I can search for for example combobox in the control-f dialog and it will bring me to the first of these. I wonder if anything like this exists in safari-voiceover? I am actually hoping that transition will be easier for me becaus eI hav emostly been using a kin dof dumb screenreader, just using the windows commands and not many screenreader ocmmands at all so I am hoping I will be able to adapt quickly. Greetings, Anouk, Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Could you please explain how Item chooser more powerful?
Hello Jonathan and all: Mark. I just attempted to send a reply to this via your hotmail account. It comes back as undeliverable regardless of which mail I send it from. Is it still operative? Attempted to send a tip or two using the item chooser. In short, the item chooser located your email link. I used vo + spacebar to find it and then vo + spacebar to activate the link. Mail opened with the proper address and then I wrote the email and sent it. That is where everything came to a screeching stop (grin). Let me know. On Jul 18, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: Mark, Sometimes I find that if I use VO-L to read the line just after doing a scenario like you describe that there is more likelyhood that I will actually be at the link. The trouble with cursor tracking on is that sometimes the wrong cursor takes precedence. So, when the keyboard focus moves back from item chooser mode, it appears that the VO cursor and the moves back to the keyboard focus. I believe that using the VO- L command might route around this behavior. I have often switched off tracking mode, but there are some issues there First, the dock is almost completely unusable. Secondly, sometimes the VO cursor gets stuck in nowhere land. This I believe there is one other place where turning off cursor tracking just doesn't work. I'll have to keep my fingers aware for that. In terms of the item chooser mode not accepting keyboard input as selection items, I understand that would be a little different from what one would expect, but one can not even turn off the lock when in the item chooser. Also when lock mode is on and you type VO-F to use the find function, then the alphanumeric keys work as alphanumerics, and not VO keys so it would be possible for Apple to temporarily turn off VO lock in item chooser and link chooser. Best regardes, Jon . On Jul 18, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: I, too, like the items chooser, but I find that if I try to use it to navigate in Mail to a certain spot in the message, it won't work. Here's my scenario: I have an E-mail with a bunch of links in it or downloading material. I want to download from a link which is almost at the end, and takes a while to scroll to the long, linear way. if I find it with Items Chooser, then VO space on it and try to work with it, I find that I haven't, in fact, moved. When I try to manually route the cursor to the VO cursor, I get a message saying I can't. What'm I doing wrong here? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IPhone accessibility
Hello Anne: Thank you for your response. Another question if I may ... do you happen to know how many languages navagon takes advantage of and in your opinion how well do the languages function. Thank you again. On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Patrick, On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:36 PM, patrickneazer wrote: I have a question. Does Navigon cover all of Europe and is there noise about when it is heading towards North America? It covers most of Europe apart from Russia and Ukraine, and it's supposed to be heading for North America, but I don't know when. Cheers, Anne Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IPhone accessibility
Hello Anne and all: Thank you so much for your responses. You have done it again (smile). Take good care. On Jul 18, 2009, at 5:22 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Patrick, On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:44 PM, patrickneazer wrote: Another question if I may ... do you happen to know how many languages navagon takes advantage of and in your opinion how well do the languages function. Navigon is available in the languages of the iPhone and also, according to the Website, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, Turkish, Romanian, Slovakian, Greek and Russian (I think most of these are in fact available on the iPhone. I know it works well in both French and English. Cheers, Anne Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?
Hello Jenny and all: I know I am late to the party on commenting on this one ... No, it won't go away or wear off ... LOL ... it will subside for a second and then ... you will be asked to purchase something for someone who is hard to shop for ... then you might be off again ... lol Or, wait until the beetles music comes to Itunes ... do not know if you are a fan though getting caught up in the buzz is truly amazing. Welcome to searching the bins all you want for as long as you want and purchasing all you can afford (grin). Enjoy and keep it up. On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote: Hi Scott, LOL That would be cool. *smile* I spend way way way way way too much money at iTunes . Well Not to the point my family has to go without... But a majority of all my fun money goes to iTunes. I don't know I guess I'm drunk with power. I've never been able to browse music or movies or TV shows on my own before so never did it. It was frustrating to have to know exactly what I wanted when often times I hade no idea and people didn't want to stand around reading off every album by the likes of Simon and Garfunkel and Ben Folds and whoever I was in the mood for or go through every movie/TV show in a given catagory. Now that I can do this I sometimes go a little nuts. *smile* eventually the WOW factor will go away and I'll give it no more thought than I give ordering an audible book or NLS book or whatever but damn it's great and besides that there are some musical likes I will not admit to another soul. Okay I admitted Simon and Garfunkel but that is all you are getting from the likes of me! LOL Best Wishes Jenny Kennedy (Howard) blueskyes9112...@gmail.com Olathe, Kansas USA Join me on FaceBook: Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes And feel free to join The Blind Parents of FaceBook group. Search for it in groups or contact me for details. Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Drunk with power. or buying from iTunes store all on my own was Re: iTunes songs for .69 was Re: NLS digital books and future versions of iTunes,iPod, iPhone?
Hello Jenny and all: Glad I struck a friendly nerve (wink). Yep, it never goes away. I must confess that I am not the biggest consumer of movies. Most of the world believes that is because I cannot see ... LOL ... it just is because I do not like many movies. I am even in the minority in the VI community when it comes to movies ... LOL However, shhh ... I must confess that I have purchased (rented) a movie or two from the itunes store just to see if they play and how they play on the iphone. Main reason ... I could look around through the many many many many many titles in the Itunes store for as long as I want. Sound familiar ... LOL So, if you think that drunk with power feeling is starting to slip you can find a whole new outlet for it ... LOL Mine is movies ... LOL Happy shopping and the mac products rocks. On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote: Oh dear, LOL when the Beetles do finally come to iTunes, please please sometime soon, that's just it. I'm going to make Apple, Inc. really really rich. *smile* I love them and have been very frustrated they are not on iTunes. Really want Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band album, is perhaps my favourite or one of my top favourites. :-) Okay so this drunkenness with power doesn't go away. Good 'cuz y'know I LOVE IT! Best Wishes Jenny Kennedy (Howard) blueskyes9112...@gmail.com Olathe, Kansas USA Join me on FaceBook: Personal Profile - www.facebook.com/blueskyes And feel free to join The Blind Parents of FaceBook group. Search for it in groups or contact me for details. Follow me via twitter using the username: ben_folds_fan Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: made the decision
Hello May, Wynter, and all: Yay. Glad you are walking toward the light (smile). It will take you 25 hours no doubt ... lol And if you are looking for revenue ... take mana ... lol OK, shhh that last comment does not belong in this thread (wink). You will convince them and they will be better off for purchasing it for you. On Jul 15, 2009, at 3:41 PM, May and Wynter wrote: Ok everyone. I have made my decision. got to play the mac computers today and I absolutely fel in love with them. Of course when I actually get one it will take more than the 24 hours I needed to learn my IPhone but I'm looking forward to the new adventure. I saw the macbook white, the macbook pro, macbook aire and the IMac. I can definitely say the aire though small was not the one for me. Now to convince ATBC to get me the Pro. I'll have to buy the IMac unfortunately on my own which will take a while to save for, cry cry. Thanks to the IPhone, I will be a Mac user soon. May off to Edmonton Alberta on the 25th. Am I ready to see some people there? Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Article Slamming the iPhone
Hello Russell and all: The following is a statement for comparison purposes only ... so there is no need to make this portion of the discussion last too long (smile). I am thrilled to hear that your experience is a positive one. That feeling of being able to accomplish something you enjoy for the first time is amazing. I could never get the nokia 6620 using Mobile Speak to work well on reading newspapers either. However, that ability was much improved in the Nokia 6650 (symbian 60 version 9.3). I personally prefer the Iphone's capability and approach ... though if there are any hold outs who truly do not want or do not care about the iphone and whom wish to read newspapers ... take heart ... the symbian 50 version 9.x generation will not leave you in the dust ... LOL Happy reading On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Russell Solowoniuk wrote: I just added my cities local mobile newspaper to my home screen, and can now click on a button and voila, I’m reading the newspaper, no matter where I’m at…waiting for a cab, waiting in a doctor’s office… it’s absolutely fantastic!! Something I was never able to do on my Nokia 6620…could never figure out how to navigate web pages on that! Love my iPhone! Russell From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:37 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Article Slamming the iPhone Hey Josh, I think the same question can be asked of those users who first laid hands on one of those touch-screen PDAs, but I guess some of those or most had keyboards. However, then we can take this same logic to any new interface. For example, those who remember the days of switching from DOS to Windows or who used the Linux command line and then moved to Gnome etc. Ah how the debate rages, but alas this to shall pass. I myself can't wait to get an iPhone and I can already see all the advantages it will offer over the windows mobile device I am using currently and don't much care for. On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote: What I'd like to ask all these folks saying the iPhone is so inefficient is: How efficient were you three weeks after the first time you ever touched a QWERTY keyboard? It's a whole new model for human interface interaction. After three weeks, I have no problems just touching the battery status, or really much of anything else. Things are not hard to find. They do not move around, and the flick method of navigation is great when you are having trouble with a brand-new and unfamiliar screen. Sitting with an iPhone for an hour and then declaring it slow, inefficient, and difficult to navigate is just silly. :) The ever growing number of VI iPhone users will tell you the same. Sure, it takes time to be comfortable. Once you are, it's fantastic. :) Josh de Lioncourt …my other mail provider is an owl… Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt Music: http://stage19music.com Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Article Slamming the iPhone
Hello John and all: I know this has been asked so please forgive me. Where can this article be obtained? I have not seen it yet though it seems to have captured people's attention ... LOL On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:51 PM, John Panarese wrote: I know a few folks have said this, but you have to consider the special interests of the article's author. A quick attempt to try to take some of the excitement and buzz of the iPhone out of the picture. Yes, as Scott and others have said, the logic can be turned on just about every innovation and step forward the blind have had to deal with as technology as progressed. Once again, Apple has done what was said to be the impossible, and has improved the options and capabilities for all blind people, and grudging credit is given at best. It's actually quite sad. When VoiceOver first came out and I heard a respected AFB person try to explain to me that a free screen reader on the Mac was bad for the blind, I knew then that there were going to be some people who would rather put politics and special interests ahead of advancement for blind users. Take Care John Panarese On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Hey Josh, I think the same question can be asked of those users who first laid hands on one of those touch-screen PDAs, but I guess some of those or most had keyboards. However, then we can take this same logic to any new interface. For example, those who remember the days of switching from DOS to Windows or who used the Linux command line and then moved to Gnome etc. Ah how the debate rages, but alas this to shall pass. I myself can't wait to get an iPhone and I can already see all the advantages it will offer over the windows mobile device I am using currently and don't much care for. On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote: What I'd like to ask all these folks saying the iPhone is so inefficient is: How efficient were you three weeks after the first time you ever touched a QWERTY keyboard? It's a whole new model for human interface interaction. After three weeks, I have no problems just touching the battery status, or really much of anything else. Things are not hard to find. They do not move around, and the flick method of navigation is great when you are having trouble with a brand-new and unfamiliar screen. Sitting with an iPhone for an hour and then declaring it slow, inefficient, and difficult to navigate is just silly. :) The ever growing number of VI iPhone users will tell you the same. Sure, it takes time to be comfortable. Once you are, it's fantastic. :) Josh de Lioncourt …my other mail provider is an owl… Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt Music: http://stage19music.com Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Article Slamming the iPhone
Hello Damon and all: I have no idea what to say in response to your question because I have both an Iphone and a symbian 60 phone and I am sold on the performance of the Iphone. So, let me ask a question of you and then possibly I would know better how to respond. What sorts of comparisons are you wanting to make. What for example would you want to see that would provide you with some sense that the Iphone truly would be worth the effort and enthusiasm others are putting into it. I am not advocating that you drink the coolaide. I am asking however what flavor of drink would you like to order. On Jul 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Damon Fibraio wrote: OK. I understand what you are saying. But is there anything about the I-phone beyond that? I mean, featurewise or functionality. I am replying to somebody who said they get more from the i-phone than they get from their windows mobile phone and I am curious to know why. What is different? I mean, I have been on the net with my blackjack 2. Why is the i-phone better and easier? What else does the i-phone do besides make calls and get on the net, for example? This goes beyond the fact that voice over is built in and it saves money. I got that part. I just hear that people are finding this more powerful than a windows smart phone and I am curious to know how. -- Damon Fibraio screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn dfibr...@comcast.net. skype: dfibraio Find me on facebook as Damon fibraio or twitter as dfibraio personal music site: http://www.keyboardguy.com. Band web sites: THD, http://www.thdband.com. Days Before Tomorrow, http://www.daysbeforetomorrow.com From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:11 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Article Slamming the iPhone Well let me put it into perspective from my point of view. When it comes right down to it, cost, cost, and cost. All the adaptive solutions you mention cost lots of money. I'm by no means unable to afford the adaptive solutions, but I also realize that the adaptive market is small and the cost will be considerably more do to the limited market. However, why should I pay oh, maybe $150 for the phone, $300 or so for the screen reader, and then another $895 for the GPS solution. So, now I have invested $1,345 into a phone that will get me around and generally offer me fairly accessible benefits to some apps. Where now with the iPhone I can spend $199 or $299 and get great access to pretty much anything I need, tight integration with my Mac without needing a third-party app that I would likely have to pay for, and a future of other capabilities that will not cost me nearly as much. So, really in my opinion I'd rather spend the money on other things and really to be honest, it always will come down to what works for you and fits within your budget. If you are happy with the setup you have, then that is great and I am pleased for you. However, the other thing here is choice and that is probably a close second in my book. Having choice is great and yes, it is also great that I can just go to the Apple store and buy the phone if I choose to do so and be up and running right away. I don't have to unregister and reregister a phone etc. Now of course don't take my message as picking on you or any of the developers of the software, I'm merely answering your question with my opinion. Again , hey what works for you is all that matters in the end and you are happy with your choice because you are the one using it, not me. :) On Jul 13, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Damon Fibraio wrote: OK, consider me a newbie. I have a Samsung blackjack 2 windows mobile smart phone with mobile speak and was planning on purchasing mobile geo. I keep hearing everybody going absolutely crazy over access to the I-phone. Can somebody tell me why this is so great? I don’t really understand the hype. I do understand we get access right out of the box with voice over. I do understand that once you get used to the touch screen and the VO gestures and whatnot that this is really great access, according to what everybody is saying. But, why is the I-phone so great? Does it do GPS comparable to mobile Geo or wayfinder? What does this phone do that is making everybody turn inside out? I’d love to understand this, so any help you can provide would be great. I have ATT and probably could switch if I wanted to, but I just don’t understand why this phone is the second coming. -- Damon Fibraio screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn dfibr...@comcast.net. skype: dfibraio Find me on facebook as Damon fibraio or twitter as dfibraio personal music site: http://www.keyboardguy.com. Band web sites: THD, http://www.thdband.com. Days Before Tomorrow,
Re: disclosure triangles? How to open/close them?
Hello Jenny and all: Give hitting the spacebar a try and see what that does. On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:17 AM, Jenny Kennedy (Howard) wrote: Hi my mac using friends, all right. I've gone for two, or two and a half weeks not using the screen at all . Its pretty nice. I have one tiny little trouble though. That is those disclosure triangles. Namely in iTunes. In my podcast lists. How the heck do you open them? I tried the VO shif M thing but I can't figure it out. I did it a few times on the macbook keyboard but its kind of broken so using wireless full size keyboard. It is driving me batty and I can't figure out how to open those little darlings. Help? Mucho thanks. :-) Jenny Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Crossposted. My first look at the iPhone 3gs. Thoughts and obsurvations.
Hello Keith and all: Go for it (wink). I do have to tease you a little though ... my Apple journey got started over at the Apple store near I-65. So, if the guys in Green Hills cause you to stand on line again ... just hop over to the other store in town ... they will help you out and take all the money you did not know you wanted to spend (wink). You want one now ... you know you do (smile). One Nashvillian to another ... even though I was a transplant (smile). On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote: The VoiceOver volume is separate from the phone's volume. It can be turned up very loud, but there is a trick to it. You need to turn up the volume while VO is speaking. Unless you are calling a lot of numbers that are not in your contacts, I've found that I rarely use the keypad, but that the keypad is quite easy to use. You can create a list of favorite numbers which acts as a sort of speed dial. Mail is not set up the way you describe, because there really isn't enough room on the screen. There is a screen for switching mailboxes, and once in a mailbox, you just ahve a list of messages. The touch screen does seem strange at first, but that's only because it is an input medium with which the blind are, by and large, totally unfamiliar with. It rapidly becomes second nature. I can't imagine going back to any of my previous phones. The iPhone is far faster and efficient than any other phone with third-party screen readers, and I can do far more with the iPhone than I have ever been able to with previous phones I've owned. HTH. On Jul 8, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Kevin Reeves wrote: I just got back from the Green Hills Apple Store in Nashville Tn. My intention was to go and look at the iPhone, and probably walk out with one if I liked what I saw. However, due to the lengthy process of making a purchase, the apple store stopped selling iPhones about an hour and a half before they closed. I showed up 5 minutes after this cutoff time, but was encouraged to look at the display model as long as I liked until close. Upon enquiring about having a sales person turn on Voiceover, they called on another rep who had more experience with Vo. Turns out, he has some form of visual impairment, which causes him to have to use the zoom feature. He knew right where vo was, and turned it on for me. Now, the journey begins. My immediate observation was that of many other people. Vo is too quiet, even with the volume cranked. In a store with a great deal of background noise, I found vo somewhat hard to hear. Should have followed my gut instinct and brought a headset along with me. My first 10 minutes with the phone was met with some uncertainty. I was successfully able to explore the phone and open several apps. However, I found the sensitivity of the touch screen a bit strange. While dragging my finger along the icons, some would open at random. At first, I found myself quite lost inside of the apps I was opening. However, I soon found a consistent pattern to how these apps are laid out. Once I realized this, I was better able to navigate around several apps. I was soon successfully able to dial my own phone number, making my cell phone ring in my pocket. Then, using my cell phone, I was able to call the display model, answering and ending said call. In the iPod app, I was able to choose a playlist and start it playing. I was able to then pause, advance to next track, etc. I even found myself able to locate the transport button I wanted without thinking. I guess that's where muscle memory really starts to come into play. I was not, however, able to bend my head around how to drag a slider, such as the icon that allows you to advance through a song. I think there was a tutor message, which would have given me those instructions, but I accidentally interrupted it, and was unable to get it to tell me again. My cursory glance of mail yielded few results. I saw the messages, was able to open one and sort of read it. However, I was not fully able to bend my head around it's layout. I couldn't find the compose button, and I didn't understand the relationships between the message and the mailboxes. I would assume that the mailbox list would be on the left, and the messages on the right. I thought that's how it would look, but I'm not sure. Safari was a bit interesting as well. I didn't spend but a few minutes looking at it, and was a tad confused because I saw part of a web page, along with bookmarks. I wanted to try and enter in a website to not only look at something familiar, and have an excuse to type. I was not able to find the button to enter a website, however, I did find the Google button and began entering in info into the search box. I tried to type some search terms, but kept making tons of errors. However, I could understand the concept of typing, and could easily see that
Re: Adium annoyances.
Good morning Kevin and all: Have you updated to the latest version? Even though I have my adium set to check for updates automatically I had to perform the update manually. That solved some of the problems I was having. Give that a shot if you have not already. Be well. On Jul 7, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Kevin Reeves wrote: Hey folks. Not sure what the deal is here, but I am having problems reading messages in Adium. I have been toggling the message window type from Gone Dark to Minimal mod and sometimes I can see all the messages in a conversation, but sometimes I can't. It's real hit or miss. It's as if the window isn't scrolling down or moving to accommodate the newly populating messages at the bottom of the window. If anyone can help me with any settings that I'm missing, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much. Reeves Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Hello
Hello Chris: Welcome to the list. So glad you are here. You will learn plenty here both about the mac and what you can do with it. The people on this list are both friendly and helpful so if you have any questions ... ask away no matter how silly you think the question might be. A silly question is a question that the guy or gal next to you wants to ask as well but does not do it (smile). Again, welcome. On Jul 4, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Chris G wrote: Hello, I am a new member to this list and Hope to learn a lot about my Mac. I bought a Mac mini in the beginning of June and really like it. Thanks Chris -- Chris G cgrabowsk...@gmail.com Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: viphone list?
Hello Robert and all: I do not know if you have a google account already or not. You will have to get a google account to subscribe to the list. Once you have a google account ... search for the group and then you will be asked to subscribe. say yes and presto ... you are in ... or at least that is what worked for me. Take good care On Jul 2, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Robert Carter wrote: Hi, When i try this address, I get a message back that this is a moderated list and one cannot subscribe via email. Robert Carter - Original Message - From: Alex Jurgensen asquare...@gmail.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, Jul 2, 2009 9:56:20 Subject: Re: viphone list? Hi, Here, iphone-subscr...@googlegroups.com Regards, Alex, On 2-Jul-09, at 8:34 AM, larry wrote: I haven't found a valid subscription address to the iphone list. If someone can supply an address to subscribe I would appreciate it. thanks much larry - Original Message - From: John Denning To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: viphone list? Is the viphone list alive and well? I've requested to join a few days ago and haven't heard anything yet. - JD - John Denning AIM: denni...@mac.com A+ MCSA MCSE ITILv3 And glad to be a Mac snob again! Roswell, GA Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: viPhone list
Hello John and all: This information is correct. I do not know if you have a google account though you will need one to subscribe. Take good care. On Jul 2, 2009, at 12:10 PM, John Denning wrote: I tried sending an email to the address given and received this from google. Hello denni...@me.com, The group you attempted to subscribe to is moderated, and therefore can not be subscribed to by email. To request a subscription to this group, please visit the following page: http://groups.google.com/group/iphone/subscribe - JD - John Denning AIM: denni...@me.com A+ MCSA MCSE ITILv3 And glad to be a Mac snob again! Roswell, GA Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Accessible HTML Editor
Hello Mike and all: Smultron, which is free and Coda which is commercial might be what you are looking for. I know everyone likes free (smile) though I went out and spent the money for Coda. I am just starting out and learning though I am satisfied thus far. Hopefully that is of use to you. Let us know. On Jun 28, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Mike wrote: Hi List: Anyone of an accessible HTML Editor for the Mac? I have taken on a web master project and want to use the mac. I can, of course do it in windows but don't want to. LOL I tried opening an HTML doc in Text edit but couldn't see the code. Thanks: Mike Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
Hello Peggy and all: Then that makes me just one of those darn meddling kids at 40 (grin).. Given the writing of the article in the Braille Monitor it looks like I will need to renew my annual membership in S.O.S. (stamp out stupidity). Thought I could save the 20 bucks this year. Oh well, it is a good cause. 90% of the proceeds go to the Itunes store (wink). On Jun 10, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Peggy Fleischer wrote: Well I got my mac in March of this year because I don't want to mess with Windows seven. I'm 47 in October. Does that mean I'm young? :) On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:16 AM, Jenny Kennedy wrote: I don't know who would be counted in the young group and who in the old. I first heard rumblings that the Mac was accessable in late 2007.I was 30 then and am 32 now, got my Mac when I was 31. So not sure where I fit, young or old or whatever... My story was this. My windows computer was on it's last legs and we knew that I had to get a new one. At first we thought about getting a low cost windows laptop. Then they came out with vista. My partner Larry at first didn't want to drop so much money all at once on a computer. But I sat down and did a lot of research. Listened to screenless switchers, joined this list, listened to everything ACB radio had to say found other podcasts and after that I priced out how much would it be to get a laptop with windows and a copy of JAWS. Then I priced out the ongoing costs, upgrades to the OS and JAWS and other things. I gathered everything I learned and presented it to Larry. I think after all was said and done that the Mac, while expensive at first more or less payed for it's self in the money I saved as it had a built in screen access and screen enlargement, plus the most I'd think of paying for os/A/T upgrades with the mac at tops would be 150 bucks compaired to havint to spend 200 a year ontop of the nearly 1000 starting price for a windows screen reader. Just after we took the choice to get the Mac I got a chance to try vista as I barrowed my stepdaughter's new vista computer. I tried timed demos of JAWS and W.E. and the free screen readers and was so grumpy with the whole thing. Larry got to see first hand what a pain in the neck it all was and I even got him to listen to some of the mac demos. He said we got the mac because it has what I need and seems to be a better computer for me. I haven't crashed it yet and aside from a few structure problems with the macbook, like little shards of it coming apart where the lid shuts and the recent shorting out of the option key I have had no trouble with it. I think people can take the choice if they find themselves where I was. In need of a computer and free and open to anything. I'm a stay at home mom so don't have to worry about my mac interfacing with other computers I like my choice and am glad I took the time to learn all I could rather than just following a mass of people one way or the other. Jenny blueskyes9112...@gmail.com Olathe, Ks USA On 6/10/09, Mark Baxter markbaxte...@gmail.com wrote: This is typical NFB. Prey on an already oppressed popularion with scare tactics about what *COULD* go wrong and how helpless they'd be unless trhey do things the NFB way. It's why I have very little to do with organized groups of blind people. Don't feel bad; I also scoff at organized religion in favor of individual spirituality, and hate Christmas because of shopping mobs and humans in packs. Don't beieve what the NFB tells you; they're just anothe organization with another marketing angle. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Rare Apple Synth
Hello Krister and all: A slightly bigger, less attractive, and possibly louder braille printer is (was) the Emboss 1. It was a vertical load and print machine. The thing came with a silencer cabinet (smile). Dragging the cabinet back and forth to school was a story in itself. The Apple II E got plenty of use though that printer was scary to use (smile). On Jun 7, 2009, at 5:01 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Hi folks, I don't know if i have told you my computer history fully and if i had, feel free to skip this mail. I think i am one of the few blind people who actually started my computer experience in a graphical environment and loved it from the start. The very first computer like thing i had was an Eureka A4, ya know those note takers with thermometer, clock, calendar and many more things on them. It had its own variation of Cp/m so it was a command line interface. Then by accident or coinsidence or how one should say it, i and my work mates stumbled upon Outspoken through an ad in a paper. We decided to try it out since a work mate on my job back then had a Mac Se30 with System 7 on it. It so happened that one of rehabilitation people i knew had a copy of Outspoken in a drawer that he had discarded as useless some time ago. I asked if i could borrow it and test it and got reluctant permission. Boy, was i glad when i discovered that not only could i access the Mac, but i could use it just as well as my sighted collegues, with the exception of graphics editing. I got a mac myself, that is first we rented a Mac Classic with 80 Meg hard drive and i thought that I'm never gonna fill this gigantic hard drive. The experimentations went so well that i got my own Mac a Mac II Vx with 200 meg hard drive. This must have been around 1993 or something. I also had a Powerbook back then. This setup went with me until 1996 or thereabouts when i was more or less forced to switch to PC. Of course i was curious as to what one could do with a PC and Dos so that was one of the reasons i switched. As i had used Outspoken and loved it on the Mac, i decided to try Outspoken for Windows when it came out. It was quite good, but not as good as the Mac version. Time went by and i tried various Windows incarnations, 95, 98 and XP, and now i'm back on the mac again and love it. One thing that i must mention before i finish this longish mail is that the only braille embosser compatible with the mac at that time in Sweden, at least that's what they said, was a big loud thing called the Versapoint, anione remember that one? I never got that one to work. Well thanks for reading this longish letter of nostalgia. /Krister Take good care and I wish you enough. Love Me --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
