Re: Finding the mmc cards

2007-08-28 Thread Kees Jongenburger
On 8/29/07, Tony Maro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After our thread some weeks ago regarding reading the serial number from a
> MMC card, I've since implemented detection of the MMC card's presence by the
> existence of those same files.  I know my solution works on my device
> perfectly.
>
Hello I use
cat /proc/partitions on my desktop system to see what the partition
are available
on my desktop system bus perhaps listening to dbus or kernel events is
the right way :)
looking at mtab or the output of mount will also help

greetings


> I figure it's probably a bad decision, because the architecture could change
> somewhat with the next hardware or software release.
>
> Can someone tell me, is there an approved / documented way of identifying
> the location of any MMC cards currently installed?  I've noticed you can't
> simply look for /media/mmcX because that directory will exist even if there
> is no card inserted.
>
> Also, what determines MMC1 vs MMC2 as the card's path for internal/external?
>  Is it possible these paths would change at some date?  I know some Linux
> distro's with SATA drives had a problem with the drives changing their
> /dev/sdX path every reboot.  I know that MY Nokia isn't doing anything
> similar, but I figure it's possible that my /media/mmc1 might be internal,
> but for someone else it could be the external slot - or maybe in the next
> hardware revision or something.
>
> I did find the alias names located in the /sys/ path that specify "internal"
> is for one and "external" or removable or something for the other.  Also,
> are the names and paths the same for the 770's?  Since I have an n800 I
> don't know.  I'm hesitant to read too much data from /sys/ because it all
> looks _so_ Maemo-specific I wonder if I will tie my code too closely to one
> hardware revision.
>
> Just looking for the most _compatible_ way to identify if/when and where a
> media card is present.
>
> And as usual, from Python.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
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Re: General Maemo/Scratchbox/N800 help

2007-08-28 Thread Tony Maro
On 8/28/07, Tony Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Monday 27 Aug 2007, koos vriezen wrote:
>
> > The usb cable makes the mmc/sd card accessible on your PC, so you
> > don't need a card reader.
>
> Ah, I didn't know that. But then I connect via WiFi rather than USB :-)


I would caution against doing this (though Nokia and maybe several people
here would probably say I'm overreacting.)

Some people seem to have issues that completely corrupt beyond repair a MMC
card and it seems to be possibly tied to using the USB cable to transfer
files to/from your PC and the MMC card in the Nokia.

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204

Personally I've only used the USB cable for flashing and I use sftp for
transferring files over the wireless.   It's easier than dealing with cables
anyway.

I do all my developing in Linux, but I just installed WinSCP on my XP
virtual machine and tried it out: http://winscp.net/eng/download.php

It's as powerful as anything I use in Linux, which says a lot when it comes
to SSH / SFTP.
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Finding the mmc cards

2007-08-28 Thread Tony Maro
After our thread some weeks ago regarding reading the serial number from a
MMC card, I've since implemented detection of the MMC card's presence by the
existence of those same files.  I know my solution works on my device
perfectly.

I figure it's probably a bad decision, because the architecture could change
somewhat with the next hardware or software release.

Can someone tell me, is there an approved / documented way of identifying
the location of any MMC cards currently installed?  I've noticed you can't
simply look for /media/mmcX because that directory will exist even if there
is no card inserted.

Also, what determines MMC1 vs MMC2 as the card's path for
internal/external?  Is it possible these paths would change at some date?  I
know some Linux distro's with SATA drives had a problem with the drives
changing their /dev/sdX path every reboot.  I know that MY Nokia isn't doing
anything similar, but I figure it's possible that my /media/mmc1 might be
internal, but for someone else it could be the external slot - or maybe in
the next hardware revision or something.

I did find the alias names located in the /sys/ path that specify "internal"
is for one and "external" or removable or something for the other.  Also,
are the names and paths the same for the 770's?  Since I have an n800 I
don't know.  I'm hesitant to read too much data from /sys/ because it all
looks _so_ Maemo-specific I wonder if I will tie my code too closely to one
hardware revision.

Just looking for the most _compatible_ way to identify if/when and where a
media card is present.

And as usual, from Python.

Thanks,
Tony
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Re: Python and GStreamer

2007-08-28 Thread Tony Maro
On 8/28/07, Jesse Guardiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> gstreamer is poo. plain and simple. Yes, you need to recreate the
> pipeline. If you don't, bad things happen, like hanging and such after
> EOS. And no, EOS detection still doesn't work well in that class despite
> my many tries. We abandoned gstreamer support in Kagu for a reason. It's
> poo. It's much easier to just use OSSO Media Server via dbus and let
> *it* deal with gstreamer for us.





I'm beginning to realize this about gstreamer as well.  EOS detection seems
to only work about 95% of time, and when it does work you get something like
5 messages thrown at you - so why can't it get just one through on those
5%???

Anyway, can you point me to any docs on using dbus to control OSSO with
Python?  The whole dbus concept is still alien to me.  The only dbus I've
done is the launching with a desktop icon and then using it to get the
screen status (which I copied and pasted from Kagu.)

Wait, I bet the next comment from someone will be "Why don't you take a look
at Kagu"...  lol.

Okay so I agree gstreamer is out.  Now to get a replacement working...
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Re: Planet Maemo formatting problem

2007-08-28 Thread Quim Gil
Hi Chris,

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 22:02 +0100, ext Chris Lord wrote:
> I realise this probably isn't the right place, but I know that people
> that sort out Planet Maemo read this list and I couldn't find where
> would be more appropriate.

The same people read even more carefully the bugs and enhancement
requests submitted in http://bugs.maemo.org (product Website, component
News).  ;)

There is also a mailing list for maemo/Midgard web discussion:
http://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo2midgard-discussion/ (very low
traffic).


> Planet Maemo's feed should really link back to the articles that its
> aggregated, rather than linking to the Planet Maemo permalinks - and if
> this can't be changed, the permalink page should at least link back to
> the original article somewhere.

No linked title in Permalink news pages
http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1611

I agree the feed should link directly to the post entries. I would
change this right now but I want to make sure that this hasn't any side
effect on the archiving of planet pages.

We could question the archiving itself (other planets don't do this),
but there is some archiving activity related to the News section plans
and the feature to compile the 'best of maemo' posts. This is a feature
still not-even-beta, see http://maemo.org/news/best and
http://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo2midgard-discussion/2007-August/000185.html
 for more details.

So you see, there are some potential dependencies for an apparently
simple problem/solution. Let's continue the discussion in the bug
report.

-- 
Quim Gil - http://maemo.org

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Re: Python and GStreamer

2007-08-28 Thread Jesse Guardiani
Tony Maro wrote:
> 
> On 8/27/07, *Leonardo Sobral Cunha* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> hi tony,
> 
> there is a bug in your code, you dont need to call createGSTPlayer in
> the start method, so you will reuse the pipeline that is already
> created in the constructor (__init__).
> 
> 
> Interesting - every implementation I've looked at appears to recreate
> the pipeline for every song instead of reusing the old one.  I'll give
> that a shot and see what happens.  Let me qualify that statement: The
> two similar implementations I've looked at both seemed to do that.
> 
> I guess what's most frustrating is it happens randomly, one out of every
> 20 to 50 executions of the program.  It's not every time.  Kind of makes
> it hard to track down specifics.


gstreamer is poo. plain and simple. Yes, you need to recreate the
pipeline. If you don't, bad things happen, like hanging and such after
EOS. And no, EOS detection still doesn't work well in that class despite
my many tries. We abandoned gstreamer support in Kagu for a reason. It's
poo. It's much easier to just use OSSO Media Server via dbus and let
*it* deal with gstreamer for us.

Just the opinion of a developer who hung out on the #gstreamer IRC
channel while writing gstplayer.py and saw every suggestion by the folks
on that channel go up in smoke under one condition or another until the
API was so riddled with inconsistencies that it was a smoking pile of
garbage.

And no, before you ask, I don't think it's not Nokia's fault. gstreamer
is just unexpectedly buggy. Too bad ALSA doesn't support inline mp3
decoders... life would be easier for all of us...


-- 
Jesse Guardiani
Programmer/Sys Admin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: General Maemo/Scratchbox/N800 help

2007-08-28 Thread Tony Green
On Monday 27 Aug 2007, koos vriezen wrote:

> The usb cable makes the mmc/sd card accessible on your PC, so you
> don't need a card reader.

Ah, I didn't know that. But then I connect via WiFi rather than USB :-)
>
> > It's available on the Maemo repository, though it's a bit fiddly to
> > install because you have to enable "red pill" mode on your device (there
> > are instructions on how to do this at
> > http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/26247)
>
> Why is this better than dropbear (which installs without fiddeling).
> Use it from the start and works perfectly (when copied a
> .ssh/authorized_keys on the device)
Er... Pass. Probably for me just because I know OpenSSH well.

Cheers
Tony



-- 
Tony Green
Ipswich, Suffolk, England
http://www.beermad.org.uk
http://no2id-ip.web-brewer.co.uk
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Planet Maemo formatting problem

2007-08-28 Thread Chris Lord
I realise this probably isn't the right place, but I know that people
that sort out Planet Maemo read this list and I couldn't find where
would be more appropriate.

Planet Maemo's feed should really link back to the articles that its
aggregated, rather than linking to the Planet Maemo permalinks - and if
this can't be changed, the permalink page should at least link back to
the original article somewhere.

As it is now, if you read the feed and want to go to the original
article (which you may want to if the article was truncated, images were
removed, flash videos were removed, you want to view other posts from
the author, etc.), the only way to do this is to go back to the Planet
Maemo page, locate the post on the front-page and follow the link from
there. That's obviously extremely awkward.

If no one can do anything about it here, could someone point me to where
I should be voicing this problem?

Cheers,

--Chris


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Re: Hildon hotkey support?

2007-08-28 Thread Johan Bilien
Hi,

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 10:02 -0400, Bill Filler wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is support in hildon desktop for hotkeys?  
> Specifically, I want a certain key to always show the home plugin,  
> and want another key to cycle through the running applications. I  
> don't know how to globally capture the key events in Hildon. Possibly  
> use Gnome hotkey support? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

There is some basic support in hildon-desktop (see
libhildonwm/hd-keys.c), but it's quite limited and hard-coded. We were
planning to make it more generic but haven't found the time yet.
Contributions are welcome ;)


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DSP Programming: Using shared memory

2007-08-28 Thread Simon Pickering
Hello all,

I've sat down and worked out how to use shared memory (shared between 
the ARM and DSP). Not rocket science (despite my troubles with for 
loops ;) ), but it's probably needed for any useful dspsink codecs (as 
illustrated by the use of shared memory buffers for Nokia's dspsinks).

It's reasonably simple. You must provide a mmap_info structure in your 
task's dsptask structure. The mmap_info structure is defined in 
tokliBIOS.h and is simply a pointer to some memory and a length.

I've written some example code (looks like the Uni http server is down 
atm though): 
http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/shared_memory_test/

The code reads in a file from the ARM side and adds 1 to each of the 
characters (so "abc"->"bcd").

In this code I've also broached the other subject we were wondering 
about, the individual .cmd files. In retrospect these are reasonably 
simple too, they are a way of communicating with the runtime linker to 
define various things. In this case I've just defined a new data 
section (giving location, alignment, etc.) with reference to the memory 
sections that exist (see the /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf file for the 
names and sizes, and also look at what the other dsp tasks use in their 
.cmd file). I then use this newly defined data section when I #pragma 
DATA_SECTION() in the DSP-side code to tell the linker where to place 
my shared memory buffer.

Obviously there are other uses for this particular pragma and the .cmd 
file, iirc some of the DSPlib functions work best/only when placed in 
DARAM, so this is something one could do here if needs be.

Cheers,


Simon
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Re: Doxygen?

2007-08-28 Thread Murray Cumming

On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 14:26 +0100, Tony Green wrote:
> On Tuesday 14 Aug 2007, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 21:24 +0100, Tony Green wrote:
> > > Hello all.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to make a package of MySQL, but dpkg-buildpackage throws up an
> > > error saying "Doxygen needed to make docs" and exits.
> > >
> > > Looking through the mailing list archive, I see that it's apparently
> > > necessary to build this from source, but when I try to do that, "make"
> > > fails saying:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > I have doxygen in Maemo Chinook/Sardine and I'm quite sure that I had it
> > in Maemo Bora too. What version are you using?
> >
> > I don't think I even had to do "apt-get install doxygen".
> 
> Thanks. That gave me a clue. Turns out it's actually in the scratchbox 
> environment but not in $PATH. A quick tweak to ~/.bashrc and everything 
> works.

Where was doxygen actually?

I've just noticed that the ARM doxygen package in Maemo Sardine doesn't
actually seem to install a doxygen binary as it does in the X86 target.
But maybe I'm not looking in all the right places.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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Re: Latest Release of UKMP does not Install Correctly

2007-08-28 Thread Acadia Secure Networks
Marius,

I used the version of UKMP that was available yesterday on the www page 
whose url is

 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ukmp/

using the "click to install" feature on that www page.

 I am using the latest released version of the Internet Tablet OS for 
the N800.

I just went to the above www page and noticed that the version number 
seems to have been modified from yesterday. It now reads 1.621. So I 
went ahead and tried the "click to install" and this time it worked!

Interestingly, the message that came up while it was installing 
specified that it was installing version 1.61 not 1.621. Furthermore 
when I navigate to the "Installed Apps" section of the N800 Application 
Manager and click on the mediacenter application to check the version 
number, it tells me that I have version 1.61 installed, not 1.621.


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Acadia Secure Networks




Marius Vollmer wrote:
> "ext Acadia Secure Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>   
>> I downloaded the latest version (1.62) of the UKMP application today
>> but it failed to install on two attempts.
>> 
>
> This might be because of a corrupted (or non-standard) .deb file or
> because of bugs in busybox tar.  Could you point me to the exact
> UKMP-1.62.deb file you have tried?
>
> What IT OS version are you running?
>
>   

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Hildon hotkey support?

2007-08-28 Thread Bill Filler
Hello,
Does anyone know if there is support in hildon desktop for hotkeys?  
Specifically, I want a certain key to always show the home plugin,  
and want another key to cycle through the running applications. I  
don't know how to globally capture the key events in Hildon. Possibly  
use Gnome hotkey support? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Bill
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Re: Armel port may become debian

2007-08-28 Thread Rodrigo Vivi
Hi Detlef,

I suggest you take this debootstrap dir ($DEBDIR) and generate the
rootfs.jffs2 image using this command:

sudo mkfs.jffs2 -r $DEBDIR -o rootfs.jffs2 -e 128KiB -l -n

take this zImage:
http://osmtc.indt.org/repository/mamona/zImage

 that disable nokia startup logo, allowing
you to see the boot messages,
and flash them using this command:

flasher -k zImage -r rootfs.jffs2 -f

If you have any doubt you can send me an email or talk at IRC: vivijim
at #maemo

Regards,
vivijim

On 8/28/07, Detlef Schmicker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> for a long time I did not post to the list. But some minutes ago I read,
> that the armel port people try to get an official debian distribution.
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439832
>
> Some months ago I posted a way to install debian etch (arm and armel) on
> the N800 using vncviewer as a graphical frontend.
>
> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-February/008480.html
>
> With an official armel port this becomes much more interesting, as the
> perfomance (mainly of floating point operation) becomes much better than
> the arm port and nearly all applications become supported. Even the arm
> port had quite good perfomance for most applications. E.g. I missed my
> computer algebra system (maxima) during holiday, and it was easily
> installed on debian etch, no port to maemo needed.
>
> If anybody is interested in helping to set up a nice way to install
> debian armel on N800, please send me a mail. I did a debootstrap install
> of debian / etch / arm port some weeks ago, without major problems.
>
> Detlef
>
>
>
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--
Rodrigo Vivi
INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia
Blog: http://blog.vivi.eng.br
GPG: 0x905BE242 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net



-- 
Rodrigo Vivi
INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia
Blog: http://blog.vivi.eng.br
GPG: 0x905BE242 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
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Re: Raemo on-device testing tool first public release

2007-08-28 Thread Jami Pekkanen

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 14:36 +0300, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Does this relate somehow to the sbrsh[1] which allows running Scratchbox
> foreign binaries which are in actuality transparently executed on
> a device with a different CPU over the network?  Sbrsh supports even
> fakeroot over NFS mounts, transports environment variables, ulimits,
> return values etc.

Yes, there's some overlap with sbrsh, but in general most of Raemo is
higher level and agnostic to underlying protocols. I think it could in
fact use sbrsh as backend just fine.

Raemo also works out many of the problems that sbrsh has (no sessions,
opens new connection for every call, NFS problems) and that are listed
on Sbrsh2-ideas[1] (I'll have to sync with its developers). There's even
been some initial discussion if Raemo could take the role of sbrsh in
Scratchbox2.

Also the approach is a bit different, as Raemo doesn't try to be as
transparent as sbrsh, eg no magic is done to try to share the
environment from host to target (some of this is done via mounting
though) and it's designed to be run without Scratchbox session
(following more of Sb2's style).

[1] http://www.scratchbox.org/wiki/Sbrsh2

Thanks for the input
- Jami

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Re: Raemo on-device testing tool first public release

2007-08-28 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi,

ext Jami Pekkanen wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce that Raemo 0.80 Beta is now released. Raemo
> (Remote Application Execution for Maemo Os) is a tool that eases
> on-device testing. Here's some of the release's features:
> 
> * Persistent remote sessions, so for example working directory is stored
> across calls
> * Session tracking which allows for example running different remote
> shell instances from different TTYs
> * Mounting the remote device's file system and running applications
> inside the mount with automatic path resolving
> * Remote device's screen can be imported to the desktop computer to ease
> GUI program testing
> * Object oriented server-client architecture which supports easily
> adding new services and different backends in any programming language
> supporting D-Bus
> * Requires only a SSH server and optionally VNC running on the target
> device
> * Configuration files for easy startup

Does this relate somehow to the sbrsh[1] which allows running Scratchbox
foreign binaries which are in actuality transparently executed on
a device with a different CPU over the network?  Sbrsh supports even
fakeroot over NFS mounts, transports environment variables, ulimits,
return values etc.

Sbrsh is used in the situations where Qemu doesn't emulate the target
hardware well enough, but as it's mainly a build tool, it doesn't
do any UI exporting back from the device to the PC.


[1] 
http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/0.9.8/doc/devicetools.html
http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/sbrsh.html


- Eero

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Armel port may become debian

2007-08-28 Thread Detlef Schmicker
Hello,

for a long time I did not post to the list. But some minutes ago I read,
that the armel port people try to get an official debian distribution.

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439832

Some months ago I posted a way to install debian etch (arm and armel) on
the N800 using vncviewer as a graphical frontend. 

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-February/008480.html

With an official armel port this becomes much more interesting, as the
perfomance (mainly of floating point operation) becomes much better than
the arm port and nearly all applications become supported. Even the arm
port had quite good perfomance for most applications. E.g. I missed my
computer algebra system (maxima) during holiday, and it was easily
installed on debian etch, no port to maemo needed.

If anybody is interested in helping to set up a nice way to install
debian armel on N800, please send me a mail. I did a debootstrap install
of debian / etch / arm port some weeks ago, without major problems.

Detlef



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Raemo on-device testing tool first public release

2007-08-28 Thread Jami Pekkanen
Hello,

I'm pleased to announce that Raemo 0.80 Beta is now released. Raemo
(Remote Application Execution for Maemo Os) is a tool that eases
on-device testing. Here's some of the release's features:

* Persistent remote sessions, so for example working directory is stored
across calls
* Session tracking which allows for example running different remote
shell instances from different TTYs
* Mounting the remote device's file system and running applications
inside the mount with automatic path resolving
* Remote device's screen can be imported to the desktop computer to ease
GUI program testing
* Object oriented server-client architecture which supports easily
adding new services and different backends in any programming language
supporting D-Bus
* Requires only a SSH server and optionally VNC running on the target
device
* Configuration files for easy startup

For more information see Raemo's project page[1] at garage and full
release notes and screenshots can be found at Raemo's home page[2]. To
get started see Raemo quickstart[3] If you are interested in Raemo's
internals and perhaps development, see the brief architecture
document[4].

All community contribution is greatly appreciated. Bug reports, feature
requests and patches are very welcome at the project page's[1] trackers.

(Please note that although this software is developed by Nokia, it's not
officially supported due to the early development status.)

[1] Project page https://garage.maemo.org/projects/raemo/
[2] Raemo home page http://raemo.garage.maemo.org/
[4] Quickstart
https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?RaemoQuickstart&id=316&type=g
[5] Architecture document
https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?RaemoArchitecture&id=316&type=g

- Jami Pekkanen

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Re: Making extras upload on osx (missing dput and debsign binaries for osx)

2007-08-28 Thread Ed Bartosh
On Sun, 2007-08-26 at 21:21 +0200, ext Kees Jongenburger wrote:
> On 8/23/07, Ed Bartosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-08-23 at 16:54 +0300, ext Urho Konttori wrote:
> > > Hi everybody.
> > >
> > > I'm having a slight problem of making upload to the extras repo.
> > > Steps 6,7,8 require dput and debsign, but I haven't found them for
> > > osx. Fink does not seem to have them and google doesn't seem to help
> > > me enough in locating them. Does anybody know where to get those?
> > >
> >
> > You can use debsign from scratchbox and scp instead of dput.
> > I'm using this on my RedHat box for more than year already.
> >
> > You can look here for more detailed info:
> > http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2006-September/002080.html
> This is great stuff , I have been "complaining" about the problem
> of not being able to upload package from non debian base distro's.
> 
I wouldn't say it's great. It's a hacky workaround, IMHO. The only good
thing about it that it works :)

The right way to do it would be to get dput and debsign working inside
scratchbox. BTW, did you try to use it in the latest SDK? May be it
already works there.

-- 
Ed Bartosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nokia-M/Helsinki
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Re: Support to non-Linux developers (was Re: GeneralMaemo/Scratchbox/N800 help)

2007-08-28 Thread Kalle Vahlman
Warning: this message is about splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs.
Please ignore this message if you value your time and wish to use it
for meaningful purposes.

2007/8/28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> It would also be useful to have a list of areas where the Scratchbox emulator
> currently does not implement all of the features on the N800. I'm finding, for
> example, that my Scratchbox doesn't provide the full set of applications that 
> are
> present on my N800 (e.g. there is no Connection Manager, and no File
> Manager).

Those are mainly just decisions on the Nokia side to keep them from
the SDK. You don't need either to build your own application, so I
would guess that's a valid decision. There's nothing technical that
prevents that AFAIK (though I guess they could have non-optional
device-specific stuff or something like that).

> (By the way, on the question of semantics, the Scratchbox thingy IS an
> emulator, even though it is running the same software as the N800. It doesn't
> have the same hardware environment as the latter, so it has no choice but to
> simulate this in software.

The one emulating the hardware is actually the cpu transparency method
you are using, most commonly Qemu. Scratchbox itself makes no effort
to provide you the features of any hardware. For x86 environments,
Scratchbox does not need to even abstract the CPU so are those really
emulated?

If simply by providing some environment is emulation, then the likes
of chroot are "emulators" too. I don't think so.

> This kind of environment is universally referred to as an
> emulator, or a simulator, in software engineering circles.)

I'd define this so that qemu/whatever is the emulator, and scratchbox
is simply a tool to provide a convenient environment to use that
emulation in. Neither would I call Scratchbox a simulator, as it
_itself_ doesn't try to imitate anything. The targets created in it
might pretend to be similar to the ITOS running on N800, but that's
not really Scratchbox doing it. Scratchbox is simply a build
environment tool.

P.S. Hopefully nobody cares enough to answer this :)

-- 
Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Powered by http://movial.fi
Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi
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RE: Support to non-Linux developers (was Re: GeneralMaemo/Scratchbox/N800 help)

2007-08-28 Thread david . hazel
>The good news is that we are getting an increasing interest from
>developers with a background strong in mobile development but not
>specifically on Linux. 
>
>On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 00:43 +0200, ext koos vriezen wrote:
>> Hm, maybe we should start a Wiki page 'Getting started with Linux
>> using N880/N770' ...
>
>Any help in this direction is welcome, starting with the own non-Linux
>developers reporting and documenting the main issues they encounter. 
>

>From my perspective, there have been two distinct areas where I've needed help:

1. Linux development in general. There is some documentation out there, 
especially regarding GTK+, Gnome and GLib, but it doesn't appear to be 100% 
documented, it isn't easy to find the documentation on some calls (e.g. GLib 
versions of standard things, such as g_free(), etc.), and what documentation 
does exist doesn't appear to start from a high-level overview of what the thing 
(i.e. GTK+, Gnome or GLib) actually does or how its various function groups are 
intended to be used.

2. Maemo in particular (or Scratchbox, or Hildon - I'm still not clear on the 
distinction between these, as there is no single place where they are all 
discussed and compared). It took me ages even to find the HTML pages that 
describe the Hildon API, and even then it was incomplete. I'm still under the 
impression that many areas of interaction with the N800 are under-supported 
from an OS/API point of view (for example, is it possible, with a simple set of 
calls, to get an enumerated list of memory cards, so that one can scan them to 
see which one contains which files or obtain other information about them?) 
Maybe this impression is wrong, but if so it's because I haven't yet found any 
documentation that tells me otherwise.

It would also be useful to have a list of areas where the Scratchbox emulator 
currently does not implement all of the features on the N800. I'm finding, for 
example, that my Scratchbox doesn't provide the full set of applications that 
are present on my N800 (e.g. there is no Connection Manager, and no File 
Manager).

(By the way, on the question of semantics, the Scratchbox thingy IS an 
emulator, even though it is running the same software as the N800. It doesn't 
have the same hardware environment as the latter, so it has no choice but to 
simulate this in software. This kind of environment is universally referred to 
as an emulator, or a simulator, in software engineering circles.)

Finally, I'm finding that there is an over-reliance on 'examples' (which really 
seems to mean endless reams of other people's code) rather than proper 
descriptions of how things should be done. I've spent 24 years of my 
professional life reading other people's code. It's tedious, error-prone, and 
always open to the question "just because they've done it like that, does that 
mean this is how it's supposed to be done?" It's also a lot more time-consuming 
to read such code and work out how it relates to ones own requirements than to 
read a proper description (with small code examples if that helps illustrate 
things). I realise it's harder to WRITE the proper description than just do a 
brain-dump of ones own code, but it's certainly more helpful to the newcomer.

>We are starting to produce official documentation targeting developers
>with different backgrounds than Linux to help them land in the maemo
>context. These docs will be included in the maemo 4.0 release.

For ideas on what is needed, have a look at some of the published books on, 
say, WinAPI or Java. Alternatively, look at how Apple do it with the 
documentation they've produced for Mac OS X. The latter is a supreme example of 
well-written, carefully-crafted documentation (and, in fact, of a thoroughly 
well-engineered operating system and associated software technologies). Yes, 
there's an awful lot of it, but it's better to have that than too little.

If the answer to the last point is that 'free' documentation of that quality 
simply can't be produced on a part-time basis, well, I'm open to suggestions. I 
often write in my spare time, and I have a colleague who specialises in writing 
text books on various computing themes (his name is Nat McBride - look him up 
on Amazon). I also have a window opening in my availability after 7th 
September. Maybe Nokia would be prepared to fund someone to write some suitable 
documentation? After all, it would be in their interests for the wider 
developer community to be up to speed on this technology (otherwise it will die 
a death through lack of support). If anyone from Nokia is interested in this 
suggestion, and wants to take it further, let me know. I'd be happy to discuss 
things in more detail.

David Hazel
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Re: Latest Release of UKMP does not Install Correctly

2007-08-28 Thread Marius Vollmer
"ext Acadia Secure Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I downloaded the latest version (1.62) of the UKMP application today
> but it failed to install on two attempts.

This might be because of a corrupted (or non-standard) .deb file or
because of bugs in busybox tar.  Could you point me to the exact
UKMP-1.62.deb file you have tried?

What IT OS version are you running?
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