Re: [maemo-developers] New version of Evince Package for Nokia 770

[Koen Kooi]

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Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
> On 12/12/05, Ralph Giles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 11:15:30AM +0200, Eero Tamminen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If it's not network printer which would do all the hard work
>>>remotely, nor something like Bluetooth XML printing protocol,
>>>one would need at least Ghostscript and its deps etc...
>>
>>Ghostscript works fine on the device. :-)
> 
> 
> Isn't GhostScript too heavy to this device? I mean, to be useful it
> needs fonts, and its fonts are way too big (in bytes).

I run evince on several ipaqs with 32MB flash containing X + GPE +
evince + ghostscript + gconf-dbus, so the 770 with 128MB shouldn't be a
problem. Also remember that jffs2 zlib compresses all blocks transparently.
The biggest problem with evince on such devices is that it loads the
*complete* pdf into memory, which makes it pretty useless for me
(Feynman's lectures on physics are ~700MB). Gpdf gets it right but sucks
for other reasons.

regards,

Koen


> 
> --
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Re: [maemo-developers] screenshot tool?

[Koen Kooi]

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Eloi Crespillo Itchart wrote:
> CPU/Mem/Screenshot applet
> Home Page: [WWW] http://koti.welho.com/jpavelek/tmp/770/
> 
> This is starting to be a very recurrent question... 

It just proves people are too lazy to read either the FAQ or
http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog (system-tools ->
CPU/Mem/Screenshot applet)

Koen


> 
> On Monday 12 December 2005 19:37, Shawn Gordon wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>We've been hunting around for a tool to take screenshots on the
>>device but haven't found one.  Any suggestions?  thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Shawn Gordon
>>President
>>ProgRock Records
>>www.progrockrecords.com
>>www.mindawn.com
>>(949) 713-3276
>>---
>>Tune into the best progressive rock station on the planet - ProgRock.com
>>at http://boa.mediacast1.com:9288/prog1.ogg
>>
>>
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Re: [maemo-developers] bluetooth keyboard

[Koen Kooi]

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Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> just to let you know. I've got uinput.ko module compiled and got kbdd
> working with my iPAQ bluetooth foldable keyboard. Now I need to add some
> gui. Either to integrate in into existing keyboard applet or create new
> one.

You could use the gui gpe uses as a start:
http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/gpe/base/gpe-conf/keys/keyboard.c?rev=1.10&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

regards,

Koen


> 
> kbdd + uinput module binary is here
> http://fanoush.webpark.cz/maemo/kbdd.tgz
> 
> diff to kbdd for btfoldable type is here
> http://fanoush.webpark.cz/maemo/btfoldable.diff
> 
> No README, description how to make it working is here
> http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/kbdd
> but you need to insmod the uinput.ko module first (as root). It would be
> great if Nokia could add uinput module to standard N770 kernel.
> 
> Regards,
> Frantisek
> 
> 
> Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> 
>> Tomas Junnonen wrote:
>>
>>> However, the kbdd program (http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/kbdd)
>>> mentions supporting your keyboard, and I can't think of any immediate
>>> reasons why this would not work on the 770 with a bit of hacking.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just tried binary from
>> http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.8.2/feed/base/kbdd_0.8+cvs-20050331-r3_arm.ipk
>> and it need uinput kernel driver.
>>
>> Nokia770-43:~# ./kbdd -p /dev/rfcomm0 -t foldable
>> failed to open uinput device: No such file or directory
>> init uinput failed
>>
>> If someone has nokia kernel source lying on his/her computer and would
>> compile module from
>> http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/linux/kernel26/drivers/input/misc/uinput.c
>>
>> for me, that would be great. If not, I'll try this as soon as possible
>> (probably this weekend).
>>
>> BTW, I managed to pair the keyboard, connect to it and got some
>> garbage from /dev/rfcomm when typing on keyboard so it definitely
>> works and hopefully needs only kbdd running with proper kernel module.
>>
>> Frantisek
>>
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Re: [maemo-developers] ipkg vs dpkg

[Koen Kooi]

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Tomas Frydrych wrote:
> 
> Kalle Vahlman wrote:
> 
>> Build environment as in the Maemo and packages as in the existing
>> dbus/ dir contents (bad wording, sorry). If you need to port all of
>> Maemo to a new pkg management just to use ipkg, well...
> 
> 
>> Granted, you need to recreate the packages for AI currently too so
>> perhaps it's not an issue.
> 
> 
> In fact, there is very little involved in making a deb package work with
> the AI -- if your app is well designed, you basically just need to pass
> --prefix=/var/lib/install/wherever_you_want_it to configure, and make
> sure to replace any standard system dependencies with the 'maemo'
> dependency; there are useful scripts in ApplicationCatalog to help with
> this.
> 
> So far in this discussion nobody has been able to demonstrate any
> genuine advantage to using ipkg over dpkg on the 770. 

ipkg resolves dependencies like apt, dpkg can't.

regards,

Koen

> More
> significantly, the dpgk is already on the system and maintains a
> database of installed applications. It really escapes me what the issue
> here is, other than Nokia wanting to keep the system (under /)
> completely separate from the applications installed by the AI (under
> /var/lib/install) -- unless Nokia changes this policy, there is not much
> to be discussed; your packages need work with the AI.
> 
> Tomas
> 
>
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Re: [maemo-developers] ipkg vs dpkg

[Koen Kooi]

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Kalle Vahlman wrote:
> 2005/11/29, Matthew Allum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>>"the 770 is not an embedded system" - OK :) You understand my point
>>though - we could argue all week on if my digitial watch for example
>>was a small computer or an embedded system.
> 
> 
> And that wouldn't resolve the real issues with the device which are
> the RAM shortage and less-than-optimal graphics performance wrt screen
> size.
> 
>   tar cfz - /var/lib/dpkg | wc -c
> 
> gives somewhat less than one megabyte on the SDK, and I expect it to
> be about the same or less on the device (if it indeed had the dpkg
> stuff there, the product image does not currently).
> 
> So we are talking about changing a rarely used utility to save less
> than one percent of the flash space? With modifications to who knows
> what amount of the packages included?

I wouldn't call ipkg rarely used, Familiar, OpenZaurus, openwrt,
SlugOS, pdaXrom,  sharpROM and several other distros have been using it
for years.

> 
> Or is ipkg a drop-in replacement for dpkg, requiring no changes to
> build environments or the packages themselves?

a .ipkg should be compatible with a .deb (ar wrapped tarballs). See
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg for details. Iirc ipkg should be
able to install .debs and dpkg should be able to install .ipks.
Could you specify what you mean with 'build environment' and 'packages'?

> 
> Could I "apt-get source foo" from a Debian repo, compile the package
> for ARM with an utility like dpkg-buildpackage and stuff it to the
> device like I can now (from the command line, and if AI would support
> real debs from it too)?

you can, ipkg-buildpkg will do the grunt work for you. Systems like
OpenEmbedded will make live even easier by autogenerating control files.


> 
> --
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Re: [maemo-developers] ipkg vs dpkg

[Koen Kooi]

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Zeeshan Ali wrote:
>>Repeat after me: "the 770 is not an embedded system".  It is a small
>>computer with neither a qwerty keyboard nor a big hard drive, nor a
>>really fast processor.
> 
> 
>You are kidding, right? Anything is an embedded system if it:
> 
> 1. has a small memory and secondary storage
> 2. has a slow processor
> 3. is intended to serve some 'specific' purpose(s).

Most of the computers I owned (from XT to the first ibm cyrix CPUs) have
a slower cpu, less ram and less storage than the 770 and served "some
'specific' purpose(s)" are these embedded systems too?
Are the new sharp pda models (400MHz Xscale, 64MB ram, 4GB microdrive,
keyboard) embedded systems or not?
The label 'embedded' is fuzzy and in boils down to 'no real keyboard'
most of the times.

>How do you define an 'embedded system'?

I usually try not to :). The term 'embedded' gets misused almost as
often as people calling NAND/NOR flash 'ROM'.

regards,

Koen


> 
> --
> Regards,
> 
> Zeeshan Ali
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Re: [maemo-developers] Debugging on virtual 770

[Koen Kooi]

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Antti P Miettinen wrote:
> Kimmo Hämäläinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>>It's also possible to attach gdbserver to a process on the 770 ..
> 
> 
> Or, how about debugging on a virtual 770, now that qemu has system
> emulation support for ARM [1]. Well - this would probably be more
> useful for kernel debugging, but anyway - if someone is looking for a
> project, how about implementing emulation for some 770 peripherals :-)
> 
> In case someone is interested in adding OMAP1710 specifics to the qemu
> ARM system emulation, it might be useful to know that 1710 seems very
> similar to OMAP5912. I haven't been able to find 1710 docs from TI
> web site, but 5912 docs are available [2].

Isn't the OSK 5912 just a starterkit for the omap 1710 cpu?

regards,

Koen

> 
> [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.qemu/9963
> [2] http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap5912.html
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] The future of the Application installer

[Koen Kooi]

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Marius Vollmer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> as you all know, the current Application installer sucks more than
> Cygnus X-1 [1], and this needs to change.
> 
> The current plan is to use the full power of dpkg+apt and put a nice
> GUI on top of it.  The GUI design is pretty mature already and will be
> nice and friendly but still powerful.  It will very likely be
> implemented by canibalizing synaptic or some other existing graphical
> package manager.
> 
> So, do you have any comments, feature requests, etc that go beyond
> would you have on Debian already?  Something that you have on Debian
> but a bsolutely don't want to lose?  Please let me know!

I like the idea of extra software being in /var/lib/install so it can't
mess up the rootfs is something goes wrongs.
What I really would like to have is the ability to use apt sources from
the GUI so I can click 'update' to update maemo components. The same
goes for the ability to install a newer version of a package without
having to remove it first (as is the case now).

regards,

Koen


> 
> [1] http://www.oa.uj.edu.pl/research/cygx1.html
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] rotating the screen (was: Maemo and Independent software vendors or commercial software vendors)

[Koen Kooi]

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Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
>>The screen is brilliant and bright enough for day use. However it
>>is currently not possible to rotate the content.
> 
> 
> In the SDK it's easy to test how rotating the screen affects Maemo.
> Just use 'xrandr' to rotate / resize the Xephyr screen and see how
> the SW and gfx works in portrait mode...
> 
> If HW doesn't support rotation, all operations need to go through
> X shadow framebuffer which can slow down things considerably.

Matthew Allum pointed me to a patch that can help with this sort of
thing: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4537
We are using an adapted patch for kdrive in OpenEmbedded for devices
where the real framebuffer doesn't match the orientation of the screen.

regards,

Koen


> 
>   - Eero
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] 770 bug!

[Koen Kooi]

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Laurent Lieben wrote:
> Le 1 nov. 05 à 12:28, Ahmad a écrit :
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> i dont know if this is a bug with the 770 browser or something else,
>> while using my friends nokia 770 device i browsed to  www.pakmusic.com
>> and tried to log in, the browser window
>> dissappeared unexpectedly, numerous attempts resulted in similar 
>> results, may be some one can verify this ?
>>
>> -ahmad
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> 
> 
> That's the same sometimes with gmail.com
> 
> you type your logon name, then you switch to the password box, and 
> Opera crashes.


In the .40 release opera consistenly crashed after pressing 'login' in
horde based webmail apps when browsing over gprs.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] OGG support

[Koen Kooi]

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Paul Mundt wrote:

>>All software FP implementations are of course very CPU intensive. You
>>have to calculate the FP result in software which takes several hundred
>>cycles while in hardware it would only take just a few cycles. So FP on
>>emebdded devices will probably always be dead slow - at least for the
>>next future.
>>
> 
> This is not necessarily true either, and is one of the bigger reasons for
> pushing EABI. It makes sense to use VFP for what it supports natively,
> most of the rest of it is better left to something like soft-float.
> Kernel FP emulation is slow by definition.

What's nokia's position on EABI[1]? I've heard debian has been
discussing this an other distros for ARM devices (Familiar and
OpenZaurus) are planning a switch too. I know glibc lacked EABI support
and RMK raised some more concerns, but I haven't been paying attention
to it for the past few months.
So I'm very interested in nokia's point of view on this EABI thing :)

regards,

Koen


[1] http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/faq.html
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Re: [maemo-developers] OGG support

[Koen Kooi]

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Zeeshan Ali wrote:
> Hey buddies,
> 
> 
>>Nonsense, gst-plugin-ivorbis has been around for a while now. The only
>>problem is that the gstreamer people forget to apply small API tweaks
>>every time gstreamer gets improved. Cristian has mentioned
>>(http://blogs.gnome.org/view/uraeus/2005/10/28/0) that they will port
>>ivorbis to gstreamer 0.9.
> 
> 
>'small' API tweaks? Are you familliar with the changes between 0.8
> and 0.9 for plugin writers?

I was getting at 0.8. The ivorbis plugin doesn't play nice with playbin,
while other plugins do (the mad one). This is currently stopping GPE
from having reliable ogg support on arm based handhelds.
The main point of my reply was: there is an ivorbis plugin, so stop
saying it doesn't exist.

regards,

Koen

> 
> --
> Regards,
> 
> Zeeshan Ali
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] OGG support

[Koen Kooi]

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Martin Grimme wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Sonntag, den 30.10.2005, 11:10 + schrieb Clemens Eisserer:
> 
>>Wow, really great someone is really doing it finally, although I can't
>>really underand why they did not include it in the default
>>distribution - ogg is THE next generation audio compression format.
>>I am looking excited foreward to test the first version!
> 
> 
> I think the reason why Nokia didn't support Ogg until now was that
> the standard Ogg decoder heavily relies on floating point operations
> and is thus way too slow on the Nokia 770. The alternative integer-only
> decoder Tremor doesn't have a gstreamer plugin yet.


Nonsense, gst-plugin-ivorbis has been around for a while now. The only
problem is that the gstreamer people forget to apply small API tweaks
every time gstreamer gets improved. Cristian has mentioned
(http://blogs.gnome.org/view/uraeus/2005/10/28/0) that they will port
ivorbis to gstreamer 0.9.

regards,

Koen

> 
> 
> 
>>Personally I do not care which project is used as basis as long as:
>>- The package does not use too much flash space when installed (< 3mb or so)
>>- Can handle playlists
>>- Would be great to have: volume management using the dedicated buttons ;-)
> 
> 
> I have a player like this in mind. :)
> But I also wouldn't mind Nokia porting the Tremor decoder to the DSP. ;)
> 
> 
> Regards, Martin
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Hot to get a Nokia 770 Device for Developing

[Koen Kooi]

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Nils Faerber wrote:
> Justin Bradford schrieb:
> 
>>>On 10/20/05, Nils Faerber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Oh, BTW: Please be cautious with the names... it is *not* N770, it is
called Nokia 770. There is also a mobile phone series of Nokia which is
the N* series and must not be confused with the 770 internet tablet
device... just as a hint...
>>>
>>>Dear god, are you serious?
> 
> 
> Quite ;)
> 
> 
>>>I've been telling people that this new Nokia 770 thing looks amazing
>>>for months now. Is it possible that I've suggesting they buy some
>>>random phone?
>>>Surely the N770 describes a unique product from Nokia, yes?
> 
> 
> He ;)
> It is not that bad. In fact there is no N770 but only the Nokia 770, so
> it cannot be confused. But N-series is simply a phone series.

So that must be why I see loads of "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; ;
Linux armv5tejl; U) Opera 8.02 [en] N770/SU-18_0.2005.40-1_PR" in my
apache logs ;)

regards,

Koen


> 
> 
>>>Justin
> 
> Cheers
>   nils faerber
> 
> --
> kernel concepts  Tel: +49-271-771091-12
> Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19
> D-57250 Netphen  Mob: +49-176-21024535
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Re: [maemo-developers] Cairo benchmarking

[Koen Kooi]

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Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
> could you please try something using enlightenment Evas?
> 
> It's supposed to be much faster than cairo.

It's something entirely different, evas is a canvas (like gnomecanvas)
and cairo is a nice way to use vector graphics. Gtk 2.8 uses cairo as a
backend, so optimizing cairo would be more interesting as running evas.

Anyway, I did some evas benchmarking on other linux hardware a few weeks
ago. Attached are the results with fb, x11 and gl rendering. The
conclusion was that evas is slooow on the tested ARM devices.

regards,

Koen

> 
> --
> Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> ---
> Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
> GPSL - Grupo Pro Software Livre
> Cell..: +55 (19) 9165 8010
> Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   ICQ#: 17249123
>MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Evas performance tests.rtf
Description: RTF file
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Re: [maemo-developers] kernel sources

[Koen Kooi]

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Koen Kooi wrote:
> Paul Mundt wrote:
> 
>>>On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 11:31:40AM +0200, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any news on the kernel sources?
>>>
>>>
>>>http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/10/12/87
> 
> 
> I guess the dev program doesn't count as 'sale' or 'distributing'?
> Anyway, I'll wait for the source to be available on maemo.org.

And the wait is over! The source is available from the debian repo.


> regards,
> 
> Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Packet Telephony?

[Koen Kooi]

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Komal Shah wrote:
> --- Andre Magalhaes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>is correct.  No other open source telephony apps use GStreamer
>>>(that I know of) and it looks like you'd have to hack it to make
>>>it work on an n770 and a desktop from the same code base...
>>>assuming you had software plugins for the codecs for GStreamer
>>>(do those exist?).
>>
>>Yes, they do exist.
> 
> 
> Where? I am not able to find gstreamer package with modified plugins
> (eg. mp3sink etc) in maemo repository or elsewhere? _or_ do we have to
> wait for such code until device gets released.

AFAIK it's part of the closed source 'dark side' of maemo, which means
there aren't any .debs available (yet). Unless you have a omap1710 on
your workstation the plugins aren't of much use. Could one of the nokia
people comment on the possibility of dsp plugins only containing stubs
for the SDK_PC?

regards,

Koen


> 
> ---Komal Shah
> http://komalshah.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
>   
>   
> __ 
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: [maemo-developers] Control Panel / Memory App crash after GPE install.

[Koen Kooi]

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Martin Grimme wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Donnerstag, den 27.10.2005, 11:17 +0200 schrieb Laurent Lieben:
> 
>>after flashing back my device with the actual retail software, i  
>>could launch the Memory App flawlessly
>>Thereafter, i reinstalled GPE-TODO / GPE-CONTACT and all belongings  
>>libraries.
>>
>>Then, the Memory App from the control panel crash.
>>
>>does it have anything related with GPE installation?
> 
> 
> Since I did exactly the same, and the Memory App was working before,
> I believe this is really caused by the installation of GPE in some
> way. Uninstalling the GPE packages did not fix the crash.
> Either it is because of installing packages in general, or the GPE
> packages are buggy.

Packages installed via the AI can't touch anything outside
/var/lib/install, so this must be a bug in Maemo. The memory applet on
my 770 started failing after installing the xterm packages, which was
the first pacakge I installed.

regards,

Koen


> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Synchronization Application?

[Koen Kooi]

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Florian Boor wrote:


>>Concerning syncing there was/is a project as part of Goolgle's summer of
>>code based on the new OpenSync framework to enable PIM synchronisation
>>with a desktop - currently Linux desktop.
>>So if you interested in this then I would suggest to have a look at this
>>SOC project and OpenSync.
> 
> 
> Yes really... that will be the best way to start.

You can download a binary of gpesyncd from
http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/maemo/gpesyncd (25kB). Put it
somewhere where it is in $PATH when logging in over ssh (see the wiki
for how to install an ssh server).
Then follow the instructions in
http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/gpe/base/gpe-opensync/INSTALL?rev=1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
and you should be able to sync your via your workstation.
A really cool project would be to package opensync+plugins for maemo and
make a small gui to sync the 770 to your phone/palm/etc using opensync.

regards,

Koen

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Re: [maemo-developers] kernel sources

[Koen Kooi]

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Paul Mundt wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 11:31:40AM +0200, Koen Kooi wrote:
> 
>>Any news on the kernel sources?
> 
> 
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/10/12/87

I guess the dev program doesn't count as 'sale' or 'distributing'?
Anyway, I'll wait for the source to be available on maemo.org.

regards,

Koen


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[maemo-developers] kernel sources

[Koen Kooi]

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Hello,

Any news on the kernel sources? I'd like to get those into OpenEmbedded
as soon as possible, but I can't find anything resembling kernel sources
and patches on maemo.org. And no, saying "they are on kernel.org" is not
specific enough.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Announce: Applications for download available

[Koen Kooi]

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Nils Faerber wrote:
> Hello!
> Since the developer program's devices are being shipped now we have
> created an easy download web page for our application ports to the Maemo
> platform:
>   http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/app-install.shtml
> 
> There you will find step by step download links that will directly
> install the applications and depending packages on your new device! The
> applications provided are:
> 
>   GPE-Todo - A todo list application
>   GPE-Contacts - A contacts database
>   Plucker - The well known ebook reader

Yay!

> 
> More to come over time (e.g. GPE-Calendar is being worked on...)

Something like gpe-today would be nice to have. I suspect Philippe will
update http://handhelds.org/~philippe/maemo/ with new gpe-mini-browser
bits soon too.

> 
> We tested the download and install procedure and it should work pretty
> well with the shipped developer devices.
> If you have any problem, please feel free to contact us!
> 
> Also of course any other feedback is welcome too...

What do you think about shipping a .tar (or .zip) containing the latest
bits? That way I don't have to click on 9 different links to get all
this goodness :)

regards,

Koen

> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> kernel concepts team
>   nils faerber
>   florian boor
>   ole reinhardt
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo on hx4700 ipaq

[Koen Kooi]

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Tommi Komulainen wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 02:24 +1300, ext Bernard Mentink wrote:
> 
>>Will support for resolutions other than 800x480 be supported at any
>>time soon so that Maemo can be run on the likes of the hx4700
>>(640x480)??
> 
> 
> Technically speaking you can already run Maemo on any resolution, it'll
> just look goofy. You can easily check how badly things will break by
> running Xephyr in desired resolution rather than 800x480
> 
> We are aware of the hardcoded limitations in places and are working to
> make things more flexible in the future. However as you probably know
> the next software release is still going to be running on the same
> hardware.
> 
> 
> 
>>Is there changes to the UI that could be done at present to allow that
>>resolution?
> 
> 
> There are some changes you can do simply by replacing the png files with
> a bit smaller ones and editing the gtkrc accordingly. For others you
> need to change (or preferrably remove) some hardcoded pixel measurements
> in the code. In some cases you may even need to do a different layout,
> like remove the number pad from the VKB.
> 
> Currently the VKB is probably the trickiest part as the code isn't open,
> but for the rest it's just work to be done...

Are the layouts built in to the binary or do they live somewhere in /etc
or /usr/share? If it's the former you could use matchbox-keyboard
(http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/) instead.

regards,

Koen

>  
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo on hx4700 ipaq

[Koen Kooi]

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Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I think that Maemo platform could run in hx4700 if all its hardware
> would be supported by linux. There is work in progress on it now, but,
> not 100% yet.

Only the internal wlan isn't supported, everthing else works.

regards,

Koen

> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 2005/10/2, Bernard Mentink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>>Anyone?
>>-
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>New to this list so not sure if this question is already asked.
>>
>>Will support for resolutions other than 800x480 be supported at any time soon 
>>so that Maemo can be run on the likes of the hx4700 (640x480)??
>>
>>Is there changes to the UI that could be done at present to allow that 
>>resolution?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Bernard
>>
>>___
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>>https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> J. Manrique López de la Fuente
> http://www.jsmanrique.net
> msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [maemo-developers] Mono on Nokia 770

[Koen Kooi]

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Paolo Molaro wrote:
> I guess people on this list would be interested:
> Mono runs on the Nokia 770, including Gtk# apps.
> There is a tarball of the binaries here:
>   http://primates.ximian.com/~lupus/mono-nokia.tgz
> 
> It includes a README with a couple of instructions to setup
> env vars.
> You should be able to just copy a Gtk# app and have it run.
> There is no support yet for Hildon-specific widgets.
> Happy hacking!

Can mono/ARM be cross-compiled using a x86 host?

regards,

Koen

> 
> lupus
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] program close automatically on maemo emulator

[Koen Kooi]

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rh wrote:
> Hi all,
>  
> I have program and running it on the maemo emulator.
> But after couples time my program is close by it self.
> Is there a problem with my program or is it emulator problem ?

I've seen this happen when the app (gpe-todo) didn't register itself
with osso. See
http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.html#Maemo-Initialization
for more information.

Hope this helps,

Koen

> Thanks
>  
> Ronny
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1

[Koen Kooi]

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Wooky wrote:
> Looks very nice. Can I suggest:
> 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the 
> N770;
> 2)configurable window name, i.e., allow it to display user, directory,
> etc. This also is useful to save space inside the terminal, since the
> user won't need to configure the prompt to show that.
> 
> On a side note, is there a shell included in the N770 packages? bash,
> zsh? I'm not very familiar with zsh but it is said to have great
> command-completing built in, so it might be useful in the N770.
I'm fairly certain at least busybox' ash will be included

regards,

Koen


> 
> 
> 
>>Message: 5
>>Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 21:28:15 +0530
>>From: Mayank Jain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
>>To: maemo-developers@maemo.org
>>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm feeling very happy to announce the release of "Maemo Terminal
>>v0.1". Its a very basic implementation of a shell prompt for Nokia
>>770. More sophistication will follow ;-)
>>
>>You can download the tarball (which i've finally made after much hair
>>pulling) from
>>http://makuchaku.info/stuff/projects/maemo.terminal/MaemoTerminal-0.1.tar.gz
>>
>>Some screenshots can be located here...
>>http://makuchaku.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=709200
>>
>>Please direct your valuable comments, either to the maemo-developers
>>mailing list or in the comments section of my blog :)
>>http://makuchaku.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=709321#blogcomments
>>
>>Thanks :-)
>>
>>PS: Don't forget to read the THANKS file...
>>
>>--
>>regards,
>>makuchaku
>>---
>>http://makuchaku.info
>>When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen!
>>-- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>___
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>>
>>
>>End of maemo-developers Digest, Vol 4, Issue 18
>>***
>>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] writing a keyboard driver

[Koen Kooi]

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Florian Mayer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> another Question: I have written a keyboard driver for SUN SPARC
> keyboards. It runs on OPIE and uses its InputMethod interface. It is a
> quick hack, that's why I did not release it right now to the public. It
> builds more or less with OpenEmbedded.
> SUN keyboards work very good with PDAs because they almost have an
> RS-232 port. You need just two ICs to get them connected to a PDA. Type
> 4 keyboards are also quite compact.
> Where should this driver be integrated? Is there an interface for that
> in the X-Server or in the Hildon-Framework?

Have a look at http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/kbdd. Kbdd will
generate input events to the kernel (like a normal keyboard) via uinput,
so you won't need extra driver for opie/gpe/x/maemo/gtk/etc.

regards,

Koen

> 
> Regards
> Flori
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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Request: Python and Flash benchmarks

[Koen Kooi]

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Osvaldo Santana Neto wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> 
> Ken Rimey wrote:
> 
>>Rudá Moura wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is what pystone shows me in my Nokia 770.
>>>
>>>su-18-21:~# python2.4 pystone.py
>>>Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 184.19
>>>This machine benchmarks at 271.459 pystones/second
>>
>>
>>Strange.  I get 515 pystones/second with Python for Series 60
>>(1.1.6, "fast" version) running on a Nokia 7610, which uses a
>>123 MHz ARM-9.  I wonder what's going on.
> 
> 
> Very strange, indeed. After reading your email, we decided to redo the
> tests and this time, our results were much better than the results we
> had before.
> 
> 
> Python 2.3 (N770 ARM9/220MHz) Avg Result: 727.4 pystone/s
> -
> # python2.3 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 67.04
> This machine benchmarks at 745.823 pystones/second
> # python2.3 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 70.51
> This machine benchmarks at 709.119 pystones/second
> 
> Python 2.4 (N770 ARM9/220MHz) Avg Result: 611.3 pystone/s
> -
> # python2.4 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 80.5
> This machine benchmarks at 621.118 pystones/second
> # python2.4 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 83.12
> This machine benchmarks at 601.54 pystones/second
> 
> 
> We are still amazed by the results because the device is the same of the
> previous benchmark.  There were no software changes/upgrades or tuning
> in hardware for such different result.
> 
> We have some ideas to discuss and share about these results. We also
> really appreciate any feedbacks for the subject... Let's go!
> 
> First of all, it's important to notice that both platforms (60 series
> and Maemo) have huge software differences. They involve Linux vs
> SymbianOS and Graphical Environment too.
> 
> Pystone is only affected by CPU power. Other related stuff like I/O,
> Video throughput, memory access, etc is not relevant for Pystone (or
> less relevant).
> 
> Let's enumerate some points who directly influence in benchmark's
> results for Pystone.
> 
> 
> 1. Different releases of Python
> ===
> 
> PyMaemo is based upon Python 2.4.1 while PyS60 is based upon Python
> 2.2.2. On my desktop I started pystone with Python 2.2 and then with
> Python 2.4. I have a Pentium4 class machine -- I have no time to build
> and install other Python releases on many small devices ;)
> 
> 
> Python 2.2 (desktop Intel Xeon 3.5) Avg Result: 31251.2 pystone/s
> -
> $ python2.2 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 1.59
> This machine benchmarks at 31446.5 pystones/second
> $ python2.2 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 1.61
> This machine benchmarks at 31055.9 pystones/second
> 
> Python 2.4 (desktop Intel Xeon 3.5) Avg Result: 5.3 pystone/s
> -
> $ python2.4 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 1.13
> This machine benchmarks at 44247.8 pystones/second
> $ python2.4 pystone-python2.4.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 5 passes = 1.12
> This machine benchmarks at 44642.9 pystones/second
> 
> 
> This show us that different versions of the Python interpreters (2.2 and
> 2.4) can influence in results for about 30%
> 
> One more benchmark. This is on OMAP1611 (ARM9 @ 192MHz) who has a
> similar CPU of Nokia 770.
> 
> 
> Python 2.3 (OMAP1611 ARM9/192MHz) Avg Result: 535.2 pystone/s
> -
> $ python2.3 pystone-python2.2.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 1 passes = 18.85
> This machine benchmarks at 530.504 pystones/second
> $ python2.3 pystone-python2.2.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 1 passes = 18.52
> This machine benchmarks at 539.957 pystones/second
> 
> Python 2.4 (OMAP1611 ARM9/192MHz) Avg Result: 482.0 pystone/s
> -
> $ python2.4 pystone-python2.2.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 1 passes = 21.03
> This machine benchmarks at 475.511 pystones/second
> $ python2.4 pystone-python2.2.py
> Pystone(1.1) time for 1 passes = 20.47
> This machine benchmarks at 488.52 pystones/second
> 
> 4. In Resume
> 
> 
> +--+-+
> |  | pystones/s  |
> +--+-+-+-+
> | Python   |   2.2   |   2.3   |   2.4   |
> +--+-+-+-+
> | Intel Xeon 3.4GHz| 31251.2 | 37880.9 | 5.3 |
> | OMAP1611b H2 ARM9/192MHz |  -- |   535.2 |   482.0 |
> | N770 ARM9/220MHz |  -- |   727.4 |   611.3 |
> | N6600 ARM9/104MHz

Re: [maemo-developers] Strange behavior with -O3 CFLAGS on ARM

[Koen Kooi]

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Rudá Moura wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I was amazed by a (possible) nasty bug in Pygame for ARM architecture.
> Whenever I try to open and close pygame.mixer module and then exiting
> the Python interpreter I got a segmentation fault. This isn't happening
> on i386 architecture.
> 
> I thought it could be a bug in Pygame so I started to debug it. Then I
> realize that compiling without optimizations the bug was not triggered.
> Well, in resume: pygame was never the problem, the problem was in
> compiling Python 2.4 with -O3 CFLAGS and then compiling PyGame with -O3,
> this just make bugged code for ARM. So I recompiled everything with -O2
> CFLAGS to be more conservative.
> 
> Anyone having problem with -O3 on ARM?
Qemu or real ARM hardware?

regards,

Koen

> 
> This is my setup:
> - scratchbox 0.9.8.4, gcc 3.3.4, libc 2.3.2, python 2.4, pygame 1.6.
> 
> Rudá
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: [maemo-users] Future VoIP use on initial released Nokia 770 product

[Koen Kooi]

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Thomas Glanzmann wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> * Matthias Steinbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050806 09:05]:
> 
>>>I would be very disappointed to purchase one of the first models, only
>>>to find out later it will not support VoIP later.
> 
> 
>>... hm I think i would by a bluetooth headset ... but the text sounds like 
>>you 
>>wouldn't need to.
> 
> 
> the device has a build-in microphone, speakers and a 3.5" plug for a
> headset (you can't attach an external microphone by default).
> 
> So VOIP shouldn't be a problem. But this still doesn't solve the
> question which application to use for voip. Normally I use gnomemeeting
> but this is bloated.

The minisip people were working on a maemo port a while ago. I use
either minisip or linphone-hh on my ipaq, but I like minisip best.

regards,

Koen

> 
>   Thomas
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Re: [maemo-developers] Gimp port

[Koen Kooi]

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Florian Boor wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> borray yulmien wrote:
> 
>>I'm thinking in do a port of a reduced Gimp. It seems possible? I'm
>>wrong? Thanks!
> 
> 
> that should be possible but to make it really useful you would need to work on
> the memory and flash consumption. Another important thing is the fact that you
> don't have multiple mouse buttons.
> 
> Basically it seems to work on similar hardware, i guess Koen can tell us a
> little bit more. This is on an iPAQ hx4700:
> 
> http://handhelds.org/scap/land.22637.png
> http://handhelds.org/scap/land.20582.png
> http://handhelds.org/scap/land.25575.png

If you don't mind switching between windows (the gimp main window and
the picture) it's pretty useable. There's one big problem: 64MB ram is
just not enough since the gimp caches a lot of stuff *and* swaps to
$HOME/.gimp. But if you can get the memory usage down it would be a nice
showcase that 'embedded' doesn't mean 'dumbed down'. We need such fluff :)

regards,

Koen


> 
> Greetings
> 
> Florian
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Planet Maemo suggestion update

[Koen Kooi]

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Roger Sperberg wrote:
> I see the Internet Tablet Talk site has been added to Planet Maemo,
> which is a good idea.
> 
> I think that Mike Cane's "blog" there, which is really a forum, is
> really a different source of information and ought to appear in Planet
> Maemo too. The previous incarnation of this blog contained more
> information about the Nokia 770 and Maemo than any other source. And
> isn't the point of Planet Maemo to aggregate info?

I think it is more a technical difficulty, since planet
(http://planetplanet.org) only understands blog type feeds (RDF, RSS and
Atom). I guess someone needs to either write a planet backend for forums
 or move the forum thread to something which can output Atom or RSS2.

regards,

Koen

> 
> Roger Sperberg
> 
> -- 
> firstinitial lastname at gmail.com 
> Teleread (e-books: http://teleread.org/blog/)
> Electric Forest (digital libraries: http://altheim.com/ef/)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] data file for matchbox-nest

[Koen Kooi]

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Mikhail Sobolev wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Quite recently I found a program called matchbox-nest.  Its sole purpose
> is to run an X server within nice picture so the whole thing would feel
> like a real device.  Please check quick-and-dirty data files for Nokia
> 770 at
> 
>   http://only.mawhrin.net/~mss/thingies/maemo/mn.html
> 
> All feedback is welcome.

Looks great! A small remark: matchbox-net was renamed to X00:
http://projects.o-hand.com/xoo/

regards,

Koen

> 
> Regards
> 
> --
> Misha
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[maemo-developers] GPE teleport in maemo

[Koen Kooi]

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Hello,

Are there any plans to support the uebercool teleport [1][2] app in maemo?

regards,

Koen


[1] http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/teleport
[2] http://handhelds.org/scap/land.18969.png
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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt

[Koen Kooi]

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Kate Alhola wrote:
> ext Eero Tamminen wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them
>> to have similar problems:
>> - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family
>>  & size and they don't change when device theme is changed)
>> - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen
>>  usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar)
>> - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated
>>  with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up
>>  automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed)
>> - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't
>>  release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking
>> the UI)
>> - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator
>>  (should be easiest to fix)
>>
>> I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly
>> to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional
>> memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other application
>>  
> 
> Also the Qtopia emulation layer would be usefull for porting Qt/Qtopia
> applications.
> 
> There is work to do but it looks a like that there is lot of interest to
> have possibility
> to port QT / Qtopia applications and so there is good reason to do this
> work.
> I think that it is much more usefull to do this port as open source
> project and produce
> shared library that can be used multiple applications instead that every
> app developper
> will make their own port and spend lot of memory with statically linking.
> 
> I just checked size of native arm libqt-mt.so.3.3.4 and it was 10917826
> bytes ( 10Mbyte !! )

That's about 6 or 7 MB on jffs2, which leaves ~56 MB for the apps, so I
wouldn't stop too long on the size in this stage of the port. The 770
has a HUGE internal flash of 128MB and jffs2 compresses most stuff
pretty good.
Do you have some screenshots of cumulus (iirc osso-screenshot-tool can
do that) to motivate other developers?

regards,

Koen


> It is large and may be that many Qt applications need to be in RS-MMC
> card but
> still if some application is written with Qt, there is only two choices,
> run it even
> it uses lot of memory and has some diferencies in look and feel or then
> not run it all.
> 
> Of cource the major things with Maemo intergration should be resolved
> like this input
> methods and pointer/keyboard issues that you mentioned. Also look and
> feel compatilble themes
> would be nice thing to have.
> 
> 
> 
> Kate
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Re: [maemo-developers] Gtk vs. Qt

[Koen Kooi]

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Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Maemo platform I regard Qt a bit like libSDL as I think both of them
> to have similar problems:
> - User interface looks different (different colors, pixmaps, font family
>   & size and they don't change when device theme is changed)
> - User interface works differently (no special widgets for touchscreen
>   usage, uses menubar to open menus instead of a titlebar)
> - Do not integrate with the input method (in Maemo this is integrated
>   with the individual widget usage so that input method comes up
>   automatically only when needed and goes away when not needed)

Will the final image have a switch/setting to disable this? I'm planning
to use a bluetooth keyboard with the 770 and I would like the virtual
keyboard to stay down when using the bluetooth one.

regards,

Koen


> - Naively takes pointer/keyboard grabs "unnecessarily" and/or doesn't
>   release them when required (in some rare cases could end up locking the UI)
> - User cannot switch to SDL application through Task Navigator
>   (should be easiest to fix)
> 
> I.e. there would be quite a lot work to integrate Qt library properly
> to the Maemo platform in addition to it taking a lot of additional
> memory as Qt libraries wouldn't be shared with the other applications.
> 
> It should be easy to test above issues with the x86 SDK.  From the X mailing
> lists I've noticed that Trolltech people are also using Xephyr. :)
> 
> Then there's of course the thing that well behaving applications should
> implement some callbacks e.g. for UI state saving so that memory usage
> can be better managed.
> 
> 
>   - Eero
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Koen Kooi]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I really think that this place isn't the right place for asking your 
> question. The difficulty involved in porting Qt based apps to Gtk can vary 
> a lot. Personally, If I were you and I _really_ wanted to do it. I'd try 
> to get libqt to work under the scratchbox environment. Then package it as 
> statically linked to your application executables. Hang on, isn't that 
> against Trolltechs UA? Anyhow.
> 
>   You're part of a business that has chosen to specialise in writing apps 
> for embedded devices (I'm guessing here). You chose Qt as your platform,
> which was shipped with the zaurus. Now, tell me if I'm wrong. I'm guessing 
> you plan on trying to sell applications to users of the N770 when it gets 
> shipped. Cool, nothing wrong with that. It isn't however a good idea, in 
> my opinion, to write apps that:
>   a) Will look crap on stock devices. (Unless Qt can be hildonised)
>   b) Do not look like other apps on the device.
>   c) Don't interface with the core platform.
> 
>   So, personally. Even though the wording by koen may have sounded hard. 
> Unless you plan on helping/starting/doing some Qt modifications to make it 
> interface, at least a little, with hildon/libosso. You should really get 
> your development team to read some docs at 'http://www.gtk.org/'. It took 
> me less than a week to get good enough to write apps in Gtk + Hildon + 
> libosso.

This sums up my point in a clear and non-offensive way. My apologies to
the other people I seem to have insulted.

regards.

Koen


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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Koen Kooi]

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Shawn Gordon wrote:
> At 11:12 AM 7/25/2005, you wrote:
> 
> Shawn Gordon wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is
>> gone, and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of
>> applications to the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we
>> use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've been watching the discussion on that topic with
>> interest - has anyone tried taking a Qtopia app and getting it to
> run by
>> just including the Qtopia libs required for it?  Aside from that, a
>> contact at Nokia would be really appreciate, I've seen some names
> around
>> but no email addresses.  Feel free to reply privately if needed. 
> Thanks.
> 
> Do you mean rebuilding qtopia to use QT/x11, or bypassing X and using
> QT/e or (*gasp*) qvfb on X?
> 
> 
>> Qt/e has its own framebuffer and doesn't use X, which is part of the
>> appeal for it on embedded devices, I think the footprint is about 3mb
>> (Lorn, correct me if I'm wrong) - for my purposes I don't care about X,
>> I'm just trying to figure out if we can kind of carry our own
>> environment along and have it work and look reasonable within the
>> existing framework, I'm sure someone will port Opie to the device at
>> some point and try using our applications on it, and some of them might
>> even work like that.  Our applications are typically well partitioned
>> between the presentation and application layer, so a port isn't terribly
>> hard, but anything to make the process quicker is a good thing from our
>> perspective.



Yes, I know all about the QT/e (and the propaganda coupled with it), but
the 770 (device) and maemo (X11/GTK platform) use X, so there is no way
you can 'look reasonable within the existing framework' if you want to
use QT/e painting directly to the framebuffer. To make it abundantly
clear: the 770 is a *device* which you can do with what you want, but
maemo is a platform that relies on X and to a lesser extent on GTK. The
previous QT (be it X11 or /e) discussion ended with the note people
should stop trolling about QT/e and it's suppossedly superiority and
start working on making QT work with hildon and osso. Maemo uses X and
GTK, if that offends you or doesn't fit in to your current development
platform, don't bother this list. Maemo uses X, deal with it. All these
'Yes, but qt/e is better' threads start to annoy and aren't
constructive. Maemo uses X, curse all you want, but that's the truth.
Don't like it? Produce something better and tell us the results, just
don't start this pre-emptive whining about QT/e.
I guess I should now better and stop feeding the trolls (haha, trolltech
toolkits and trolls), but I think it's time to post a big note to
maemo.org and nokia.com stating: "Not interested in QT/e, piss off".
QT is well designed and allows you to build qtopia with X support, no
problem there. Maemo is a platform, not a device, so pimping opie (a
nice platform, which is going to switch to QT4/x11, btw) or QT/e annoys
the crap out of me and judging from the reactions on IRC, a lot of other
people. Maemo uses X, deal with it. Feel free to install what you want
on your *device*, but stop bothering us with FUD about X being
inappriate on embedded devices.
To make it very clear: QT is nice, a hildonized QT would be a neat thing
to have, hildonized KDE apps aren't evil, but maemo is primarely a
X11/GTK platform. Whining about QT/e in the platform (not even the
device!) list is just childish and promotes prejudices about 'the other
side of the fence'.
Either be constructive and start working on proper integration with
hildon and osso, or continue your effort on a more appropriate
mailinglist (qt-interest or something). This is a maemo list, not a
nokia 770 list. Maemo uses X and is a platform.
I appreciate all the work TT and TK do on qtopia, and their apps are
very nice, nothing against that, but don't go bullying on maemo for
being different. I personally carry a deep resentment against QT/e (not
QT, not qtopia), but that doesn't stop me from working and having fun
with the Opie people, it just puts me in a foul mood when I read stuff
like this. Choice is good, so don't stuff qt/e down our throats.

still with regards,

Koen Kooi


> 
> 
> regards,
> 
> Koen
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Best Regards,
> 
>> Shawn Gordon
>> President
>> theKompany.com
>> www.thekompany.com
>> www.mindawn.com
>> 949-713-3276
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Nokia developer contact?

[Koen Kooi]

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Shawn Gordon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Seems that everyone I knew at Nokia from the "Media Terminal" days is
> gone, and we'd like to talk to them about porting our library of
> applications to the 770 (www.thekompany.com/embedded) - given that we
> use Qt/e-Qtopia, I've been watching the discussion on that topic with
> interest - has anyone tried taking a Qtopia app and getting it to run by
> just including the Qtopia libs required for it?  Aside from that, a
> contact at Nokia would be really appreciate, I've seen some names around
> but no email addresses.  Feel free to reply privately if needed.  Thanks.

Do you mean rebuilding qtopia to use QT/x11, or bypassing X and using
QT/e or (*gasp*) qvfb on X?

regards,

Koen


> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Shawn Gordon
> President
> theKompany.com
> www.thekompany.com
> www.mindawn.com
> 949-713-3276
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] new software for 770

[Koen Kooi]

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Daniel Monteiro wrote:
> I really dont like KDE stuff...its just its graphic
> style =-P

If that's the case you can use Anjuta, which is written in gtk. Any
volunteers to hildonize anjuta ;)

regards,

Koen

> 
> anyway, I cant avoid it forever.I must learn it
> 
> --- Gustavo Barbieri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
> 
> 
>>On 7/22/05, Daniel Monteiro
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>thanks for the tip
>>>Im quite lost, As I come from the Borland Land,
>>
>>where
>>
>>>everything is graphical , pretty and easy =-P
>>
>>So, you can use Kdevelop. It doesn't handle SCons
>>AFAIK, but it does
>>handle much of autotools and makefiles in a
>>graphical way.
>>
>>But IMHO you should try SCons, it kick ass (i'm
>>porting some software to it).
>>
>>-- 
>>Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
>>---
>>Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
>>GPSL - Grupo Pro Software Livre
>>Cell..: +55 (19) 9165 8010
>>Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  ICQ#: 17249123
>>   MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Skype: gsbarbieri
>>   GPG: 0xB640E1A2 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel "NeoStrider" Monteiro
> 
> visite: http://www.makingthegame.tk no seu computador
> ou http://tagtag.com/makegame no seu celular! 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger 
> http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/ 
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[maemo-developers] Svn commits tracked at http://cia.navi.cx/ ?

[Koen Kooi]

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Hello,

What do you all think of supporting CIA notifications in maemo svn? That
 would allow people to activity and fixes without wrestling with svn it
self.

regards,

Koen

PS: see http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/handhelds.org/ for an example
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Re: [maemo-developers] Play MP3

[Koen Kooi]

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rh wrote:
> Yes, it uses DSP for decoding MP3s. I think applications can use some
> Gstreamer API for playing MP3s, but there are other guys that can tell
> better.
> 
> BR, Kimmo
> 
> 
> Hi, Kimmo
> 
> According to your answer, is it right that Nokia 770 using DSP for playing
> MP3 / MIDI files instead of GStream ?
> Because in GStream document, they say that Nokia 770 using GStream for
> playing multimedia files.

The nokia 770 uses gstreamer to play mp3s, and gstreamer has drivers to
use the dsp instead of the cpu. This was the original design for
gstreamer when it was started by RidgeRun inc.

regards,

Koen


> 
> Regards,
> Ronny
> 
> 
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[maemo-developers] Gpsdrive on maemo

[Koen Kooi]

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Hello,

After this conversation on IRC:

16:36 < veli> koen: did you compile it already?
16:38 < koen> nope
16:38 < koen> dpkg failed too
16:39 < veli> I compiled it for fun..
16:39 < veli> Don't know if it works though...
16:41 < veli> this will build it: CFLAGS=-D_GNU_SOURCE ./configure;
make; make install
16:41 < koen> ah, that one
16:42 < koen> I remember that problem :)

The following screenies could go online:

http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/blog/pyblosxom.cgi/Handhelds/gpsdrive-maemo.html

If you drop your configfile on the 770, gpsdrive is useable in it's
current form, but further UI tweaking (especially the config dialogs) is
needed.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Qt + KDE port

[Koen Kooi]

Quoting Gustavo Barbieri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 7/10/05, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:59 am, Florian Boor wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Gustavo Barbieri wrote:
> > > > Wel... my idea was to wipe out any gtk from it ;)
> > Fine idea! ;)
> >
> > > > Okay, maemo UI is great, but I think using kde technology worth loosing
> > > > it.
> > >
> > > is that really woth that effort? Who would want to maintain a hack like
> > > this? It might be a better idea to identify technologies which are worth
> to
> > > port from KDE to maemo imho.
> >
> > He could easily use Qtopia or Opie instead of Hildon. In which case, he
> could
> > use microkde to facilitate kde apps.
>
> How much trouble is this?
> I was accepted in Nokia's developer program and may buy that device
> ASAP, I'll start to use Hildon, but I'm still interested in Opie
> environment, running it's fb or even writing a video device driver.
>Interested? :-)

Since maemo contains opie nor qtopia nor QT this is *very* oftopic for
maemo-dev, please take this discussion to qt-interest or opie-devel.

Koen

>
> --
> Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> ---
> Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
> GPSL - Grupo Pro Software Livre
> Cell..: +55 (19) 9165 8010
> Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   ICQ#: 17249123
>MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Skype: gsbarbieri
>GPG: 0xB640E1A2 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
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>
>





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Re: [maemo-developers] Qt + KDE port

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Gustavo Barbieri wrote:
> On 7/5/05, Timo Steuerwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>What I would like to say, that even if the screen has a really high
>>resolution like the 770, there's no need to waste space like this. But
>>sure, I don't think that you'll need to port QT and KDE if you want only
>>a smaller application border/fonts on the device... ;-)
> 
> 
> You understood me wrong, I liked the Maemo GUI, but I want some kde
> apps, possible kontact (maybe as separated apps, like kmail), koffice
> and khtml.
>As I'm still downloading the maemo plataform I can't tell you for
> sure how much RAM space does it takes, but I'll try some tweaks and if
> it proves to be doable I'll invest some time. Maybe compile with -Os,
> remove some images/pixmaps and stuff like that can sole most problems.
>Also, do you use CELinux's XIP (Execute In Place) patches and
> things like these? This would save us much ram!

Not using kde even more :P

> 
> Talking about Apps... I know 770 is a device for browsing... but some
> productivity wouldn't hurt... anything planned? Office? PIM?
> 

Abiword, gnumeric (both on http://www.indt.org.br/maemo/) and the GPE
suite (http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/) already run on the maemo
platform. The only thing missing is a calender app, which in the works.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Porting applications for Maemo

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Koen Kooi wrote:
> Mattias Schlenker wrote:
> 
>>>Kate Alhola wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The qt3 compiled without larger problems. Just the uic was hanging
>>>>or crashing with scratchbox/ARM compilation.There is some incompatibility
>>>>with qemu and uic. When made all uic stuff with scratchbox in i386 mode
>>>>i get qt compiled.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I use a Linksys NSLU2 for compiling apps for the NSLU2 (armv5b). Are
>>>there similar OMAP based boxes or boards that would allow native
>>>compiling for ARM/OMAP?
> 
> 
> CATS, 5192osk, ipaqs, zauri,  If you can interface it via tcp/ip
> scratchbox can use it :)
> I'm affraid you can't use the nslu2 to natively compile apps for the
> 770, since it is bigendian and the 770 little endian.

Or you can use http://handhelds.org/projects/skiffcluster.html to do
native compiling.


> 
> regards,
> 
> Koen
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>Regards,
>>>Mattias
>>>
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Porting applications for Maemo

[Koen Kooi]

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Mattias Schlenker wrote:
> Kate Alhola wrote:
> 
>> The qt3 compiled without larger problems. Just the uic was hanging
>> or crashing with scratchbox/ARM compilation.There is some incompatibility
>> with qemu and uic. When made all uic stuff with scratchbox in i386 mode
>> i get qt compiled.
>>
> 
> I use a Linksys NSLU2 for compiling apps for the NSLU2 (armv5b). Are
> there similar OMAP based boxes or boards that would allow native
> compiling for ARM/OMAP?

CATS, 5192osk, ipaqs, zauri,  If you can interface it via tcp/ip
scratchbox can use it :)
I'm affraid you can't use the nslu2 to natively compile apps for the
770, since it is bigendian and the 770 little endian.

regards,

Koen



> 
> Regards,
> Mattias
> 

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[maemo-developers] ll

[Koen Kooi]

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Gustavo Barbieri wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone started a KDE port or is interested in one?
> 
> Main reasons is that many KDE applications already have tweaks to fit
> small devices, since they run in some QTopia/Opie environments.

Those are mostly QT (or qpe) apps, since kdelibs is one huge monolothic
beast with a messed up build system (scratchbox to the rescue!!). I've
heard rumours that the new kdelibs will have some finer grained
packaging, so the situation might improve. I think that the apps need to
be rewritten to run with GTK in stead of QT as a UI toolkit to integrate
into hildon. Any QT experts that know what kind of porting would be
involved around?

> 
> Also, KHTML + KPIM + KOffice would be a great offer for those that
> want productivity + conectivity. KPIM is specially meant to work well
> on disconnected system with it's new kitchensync arch.

At the moment already we have GPE + abiword + gnumeric which can use
(multi/open)sync. All these apps are hildonized, or mostly hildonized.
So you can already be productive and connected if using non-QT software
on an X server isn't against your religion.
Once again, having a choice is good, but fragmentation and reinventing
the wheel is bad.

> 
> 
> On a side note, what's the expected price and release date for the
> nokia product? Ansious to have my hands on one of these!

According to the last rumours 350 euro/dollars and Q3 (which started 3
days ago ;))

regards,

Koen
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Access of loudspeaker/microphone -> ALSA?

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Komal Shah wrote:
> --- Timo Steuerwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi all!
>>
>>How will be sound output and input done on the
>>platform? - Will be ALSA 
>>used therefore?
> 
> 
> I don't think so. There are issues for ALSA on ARM.
> You can google alsa mailing list with ALSA on ARM or
> something like that. So, I believe OSS will be
> there...

I've been happily using ALSA on my ipaqs for some time now :)

regards,

Koen


> 
> But recently Nico on linux-arm seems to working on pxa
> board for ALSA based audio driver. 
> 
> 
>>Are there already any details available about the
>>sound chip on the 
>>Nokia 770?
> 
> 
> Don't know. But I like to make guesses: tsc2101 or
> next version of it.
> 
> ---Komal Shah
> 
> __
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Re: [maemo-developers] Access of loudspeaker/microphone -> ALSA?

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Komal Shah wrote:
> --- Timo Steuerwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi all!
>>
>>How will be sound output and input done on the
>>platform? - Will be ALSA 
>>used therefore?
> 
> 
> I don't think so. There are issues for ALSA on ARM.
> You can google alsa mailing list with ALSA on ARM or
> something like that. So, I believe OSS will be
> there...

I've been happily using ALSA on my ipaqs for some time now :)

regards,

Koen


> 
> But recently Nico on linux-arm seems to working on pxa
> board for ALSA based audio driver. 
> 
> 
>>Are there already any details available about the
>>sound chip on the 
>>Nokia 770?
> 
> 
> Don't know. But I like to make guesses: tsc2101 or
> next version of it.
> 
> ---Komal Shah
> 
> __
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Wonderful device from Nokia...

[Koen Kooi]

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Mattias Schlenker wrote:
> Wooky wrote:
> 
>> I also have great expectations for N770. It seems that it can achieve
>> an important milestone in Linux-based PDAs, and suceed where others
>> have failed. While I disliked the marketing of the N770 as a simple
>> "internet tablet" at first, since it was obvius that it had the
>> potential to be much more than that, it actually makes sense. It can
>> have a greater penetration in the not-so-Linux-inclined market that
>> way, specially considering there is nothing remotely similar with its
>> intended price tag.
>> I had a friend who had a Zaurus once, and he complained (of lack) of
>> available software, compared to Palm and PocketPC devices, and
>> expressed his fear that might too happen to the N770. I pointed him
>> some of the projects already ported and showed how easy was to port
>> existing GTK+ apps to Maemo. Since we live in Brasil, I was specially
>> happy with the work of the guys from INdT (which I had never heard of
>> till now) with Python in Maemo.
>> It's time there was a developer, open-source friendly PDA in the
>> market. I sure hope the N770 will be a thundering success - and I also
>> hope it will be available here in Brasil as well.
>>  
>>
> 
> There are many apps for the Zaurus, either for Qtopia (original,
> partially closed environment), QPE  (free fork) or GPE (X11, GTK and
> matchbox based alternative). But Trolltech made a significant mistake by
> just opening Qtopia and not "taking the community by the hand". That
> provoked the fork QPE and thus less people are developing for Qtopia
> then for QPE and GPE. Also, projects just run by the community tend to
> concentrate on developers as customers which results in software that
> just targets "power users", sysadmins and programmers. QPE and GPE are
> out of reach for normal users since it requires flashing the device.
> Another point is that many of the free programs lack polishing. Backing
> by a large company with significant (wo)manpower could be solution for
> this problem, either by offering bounties as Novell does or by helping
> with the development.

You're confusing distro (OpenZaurus) and environment (Opie or GPE), but
that doesn't matter much for the point that QT/e and sharp suck.


> 
> I assume that Nokia did precise analysis on the points of failure of the
> Zaurus' acceptance. A fork of Maemo would be absolutely
> counterproductive for both sides: developers focusing on the free fork
> would end up with unpolished applications and Nokia would have to invest
> (wo)manpower in backporting apps from the forked environment to satisfy
> customers. Thus integrating the community early (and pampering us with
> developer devices) is a clever move.

See how nice GPE integrates into maemo: http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/

regards,

Koen

> 
> 
> Regards,
> Mattias
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Browser, file mgr in Scratchbox?

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Mattias Schlenker wrote:
> Karoliina T. Salminen wrote:
> 
>> The screenshots are from the actual device which contains proprietary
>> software in addition
>> to the maemo-platform. The problem is currently with the web browser
>> in Nokia 770 in regards of the open source maemo-platform
>> is that the Opera browser is proprietary - it can not be included to
>> the free platform. Currently the maemo-platform is kind of
>> waiting for someone to hack KHTML or Minimo or something else into it 
>> - that way there could
>> be the browser most quickly and easily. So if you can and want to do
>> it, feel free and have fun :).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some girls and guys in Finland have started porting Apple's WebCore to
> interface with Gtk+:
> 
> http://gtk-webcore.sourceforge.net/index.html
> 
> I think I've read the name of the company that initiated that port
> before...
> 

A screenshot of it running on a 770:
http://handhelds.org/scap/port.20179.png

regards,

Koen


> Regards,
> Mattias
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Maemo & C++

[Koen Kooi]

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Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote:
> Yes, if someone ports mono jit compiler to arm...
> 
> AFAIK, dotGnu works in arm-linux devices..

Handhelds.org managed to get a slot in the google SoC thing for someone
to work on getting pnet to work better on PDAs. The novell people don't
seem to care about ARM, but the future is bright :)

regards,

Koen


> 
> 
> On 6/29/05, Stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>>I would really like to program in Java. It's listed in the roadmap.
>>
>>Anyone
>>
>>>working on it at the moment? 
>>>
>>
>>What about .net apps with Mono?  I believe you can run Java on mono too.
>>
>>Stuart.
>>
>>___
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>>
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo in OpenEmbedded progress

[Koen Kooi]

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MetaVoid Developer wrote:
> 
>  
> Cool!
>  That means that GPE based software can be used on the 770?
> Or the 770 can be made to be an GPE device?

The screenshots proof Florian has made it a GPE device :)

regards,

Koen


>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> maemo-developers@maemo.org
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Re: [maemo-developers] Reading Plucker ebooks

[Koen Kooi]

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Mattias Schlenker wrote:
> Roger Sperberg wrote:
> 
>> Offlist, I inquired about difficulties in getting Plucker Viewer to
>> see any ebooks. I am using the LiveCD ver 0.4a made by Matthias
>> Schlenker (thanks, Matthias!).
>>
>> Following Nils Faerber's instructions (thanks, Nils!), I added a
>> MyDocs folder in the scratchbox/users/knoppix/home/knoppix directory
>> and copied pdb files (from plkr.org/dl/ ) into
>> MyDocs -- Plucker saw them immmediately. The book titles showed up in
>> the Plucker library, where it was trivial to open and read them.
>>
>> There were problems with one file I tried from another source but
>> others worked flawlessly, including ones with internally linked
>> chapters and a table of contents.
>>
>> Being a Linux newbie, how do I make screen captures so that images of
>> these can be shared and posted online?
>>
> 
> ImageMagick seems to be missing. I will add it for 0.5. In the meantime
> please do:
> 
>sudo apt-get update
>sudo apt-get install imagemagick
> 
> Then you can use the command "import" to acquire a screenshot:
> 
>   import /home/knoppix/screenshot.png
> 
> Or you may just run the complete ISO under Qemu...

There should be a 'osso-screenshot' or very similar in the images.

regards,

Koen

> 
> Regards,
> Mattias
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] N 770 RFmon in Wifi Chipset?

[Koen Kooi]

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Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Salut,
> 
> I'm the developer of the popular Wellenreiter II[1] passive wireless
> scanner for the Opie environment. I'm considering to make this
> application run on the Nokia 770. Since Wellenreiter II is a passive
> scanner, there is the need of the so called RFMON mode - basically a
> mode of operation in which IEEE 802.11 management packages are delivered
> to userland.
> 
> Most open source drivers (hostap, orinoco, madwifi, spectrum, wlan-ng,
> cisco) implement such a mode. How is the chipset+driver in the Nokia 770
> behaving in that aspect?

According to
http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000417.html it
won't behave.
Does this mean your going to port WR2 to GTK? ;)

regards,

Koen

> 
> [1] http://www.vanille.de/projects/wellenreiter.html

PS: QT/E must die!!

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Re: [maemo-developers] N 770 and webcam

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Ian Oliver wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Dunlop wrote:
> 
>>Looks to me like the originator has just retracted his statement :(
> 
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> 
>>On the other hand it's difficult to see how the small battery in
>>the 770 could have powered the bus.
> 
> 
> A USB keyboard would take very little juice. And you'd probably only 
> want the keyboard when docked.
> 
> Any idea what USB chipset the 770 uses? Some are switchable between 
> peripheral and host, and some are On-The-Go.

Everything I heard indicates that it uses the omap1710 usb 'controller'
which can switch to OTG according to
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11991&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_1710

If nokia doesn't support it *and* it uses the omap-udc, we can always
build our own kernel which does support it :)


regards,

Koen

> 
>>A pity bluetooth keyboards are so expensive :(
> 
> 
> A shame none of the folding/rolling/whatever Palm keyboards won't work 
> with it.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Linux Journal: An Interview with Dr. Ari Jaaksi of Nokia

[Koen Kooi]

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Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote:
> Nice interview..
> 
> Reading the comments I've found a nice link to a Nokia wireless keyboard[1]
> 
> Will it work with N770?
> 
> [1] http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,58982,00.html

I heard some rumours the initial version won't support HIDP (the bt
input stuff), but it shouldn't be too hard to recompile the kernel to
enable HIDP.

regards,

Koen


> 
> 2005/6/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>>http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8351
>>
>>"A closer look at the new Nokia 770, the platform
>>supporting it and its ties to open source. "
>>
>>Regards
>>Alex
>>___
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>>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] RE: GCC port for the TI TMS320C5{4,5}x

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Is there any docs anywhere for how to use/set up this this compiler from
> within a Maemo/scratchbox development environment?

Out of interest: Can sb use the dsp when you use the device as the target?

regards,

Koen


> 
> Christian
> 
> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 14:19 +0900, Ishigami wrote:
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>> 1) The C55x core can switch to C54 compatible mode at run time,
>>by setting the bit 5 of ST1 register.
>>
>> 2)  Although this isn't gcc port, a C55x compiler is available at
>> 
>>https://www-a.ti.com/downloads/sds_support/targetcontent/LinuxDspTools/index
>>.html
>>
>> And I believe the latest DSP Gateway is built by this toolchain.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ishigami
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Aleksandr Koltsoff
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 12:32 AM
>>To: maemo-developers@maemo.org
>>Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] GCC port for the TI TMS320C5{4,5}x
>>
>>
>>On Monday 13 June 2005 20:29, Jonathan Bastien-Filiatrault wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>We are currently looking for experienced GCC hackers to help 
>>>implement and complete a GCC port for the Texas Instruments 
>>>TMS320C54x. This chip is used in the Neuros music player, as well as 
>>>in the Nokia 770 internet tablet. 
>>
>>Try the gcc-dev lists as well. However, I'd like to point out that the DSP 
>>core in 770 is 55x, not 54x. 55x supports 54x code in emulation mode but I 
>>don't know the innards of dspgateway nor 770 to be able to say whether 
>>switching the emulation mode on and off between DSP code is 
>>possible/feasible. Also, I don't know whether the 55x runs in 54x emulation 
>>mode by default (and only in emu). I'm sure someone can clarify this (if 
>>possible).
>>
>>personally I'd like to see free development tools for the 55x core as it's 
>>used in 770, but have no time at the moment to participate in gcc-hacking.
>>
>>ak.
>>
>>___
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Re: [maemo-developers] Optimized software

[Koen Kooi]

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Aleksandr Koltsoff wrote:
> On Thursday 16 June 2005 09:42, Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente wrote:



> 
>>* Offer engaging text messages to users informed and entertained while
>>they are waiting for long processes, such as server saves, to be
>>completed.
> 
> 
> Or assume that the user is intelligent enough to be able to switch to another 
> application meanwhile (xbill ;-).

Yes! Communicate estimated waiting time on the messagebus and pop up a
"This is going to take a while, should I launch ?" dialog if
that time crosses a thresshold :)

regards,

Koen
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[maemo-developers] Gaim patches

[Koen Kooi]

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Hello,


Are the patches for gaim available somewhere? The screenshots in the
howto look awesome, and I (and problably other :) ) would love to try
the hildonized gaim.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Wish list - was plucker viewer for 770

[Koen Kooi]

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Hash: SHA1

Roger Sperberg wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:17:53 +0200
> From: Nils Faerber < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] plucker viewer for 770
> To: Brad Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org 
> 
> Brad Clements wrote:
> > Is anyone currently working on one?
> > If not, I will work on it.
> 
> Already done ;)
> Look here
>  http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/plucker.shtml
> 
> There will be a new release soon enabling fullscreen mode.
> 
> Kind regards
>   nils faerber
> 
> - --
> kernel concepts  Tel: +49-271-771091-12
> Dreisbachstr. 24 Fax: +49-271-771091-19
> D-57250 Netphen  Mob: +49-176-21024535
> - --
> --
> 
> 
> I wrote Nils earlier, inquiring whether it would be possible in Plucker
> to rotate the text so that you could read the page in portrait rather
> than landscape mode.
> 
> He indicated no, but that it was not a limitation of Plucker.
> 
> While this stems from the circumstances of the N 770, I hope that Maemo
> and the capabilities of the Internet Tablet expand in future versions to
> allow/expect rotation.

Kdrive supports xrandr, but the maemo interface might not be adapted to
it. So there's hope :)

regards,

Koen



> 
> So on the wiki, there should be a Wish List page too.
> 
> Roger
> 
> -- 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Electric Forest (digital libraries: http://altheim.com/ef/)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] If there is any possible to port Maemo to MotoE680(i)

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am quite sure that it could be doable assuming you can reflash the device
> or gain root access by other means and put stuff in there. Not very quick
> task though but doable I think.

Last time I checked qtopia can only function as root (one of the reason
for my dislike of it).

regards,

KOen


> 
> Br,
> Karoliina
> 
> 
> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ext Liki Du
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:18 PM
>>To: maemo-developers@maemo.org
>>Subject: [maemo-developers] If there is any possible to port Maemo to
>>MotoE680(i)
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I have a Motorola E680 mobile also based on linux, to say it's
>>MontaVista edition. And its Graphic Framework is based on a QT embed
>>stuff names EZX, quite similiar to Qtopia, and I know Maemo is based
>>on GTK+, so if it is possible to port Maemo to Moto E680?
>>
>>-- 
>>Liki, A V0idsouL
>>Cogito ego, sum.
>>___
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>>https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>>
> 
> ___
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Re: [maemo-developers] If there is any possible to port Maemo to Moto E680(i)

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Liki Du wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Motorola E680 mobile also based on linux, to say it's
> MontaVista edition. And its Graphic Framework is based on a QT embed
> stuff names EZX, quite similiar to Qtopia, and I know Maemo is based
> on GTK+, so if it is possible to port Maemo to Moto E680?

Sure, but you will need to run an X-server, and the qtopia stuff won't
work anymore. See the mailinglist archives for people wanting to port it
to smaller (qvga) displays.

regards,

Koen



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Re: [maemo-developers] All the good projects are done! was: plucker viewer for 770

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:

> 
> Hey, does the 770 support OpenGL?

not in hardware, the omap1710 only has 2d accel. I don't know how well
mesa works with kdrive to do software rendering.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] how we can enhance the maemo.org

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Adrian Wiesmann wrote:
>>How about discussion forums? I think they are easier to manage
>>than mailing lists, but that is just my opinion as I am a forum heavy
>>user
> 
> 
> I mostly hate forums for one single reason: They need a registration to
> post. And I definitely hate to write down all those username/password
> pairs for all those forums out there. But I guess this is because I am
> used to wiki and mailing lists :)

The wiki will probably require a login too, or at least some form of
authentification to keep the viagra-bots away. Does mediawiki support
the "type the numbers you see in this garbled picture into the textbox"
tpye of thing?

regards,

Koen


> 
> Regards,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [maemo-developers] how we can enhance the maemo.org

[Koen Kooi]

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Andreas Orfanos wrote:
> I think, wiki is a MUST, it can give more freedom to the developers
> work, and enchance the direction of maemo.

We at handhelds.org are very happy with the wiki (although it's a
moinmoin wiki instead of a mediawiki), and I especially like the
"RecentChanges" and notifications a wiki gives you.

regards,

Koen

> Andreas
> 
> 
>  
> On 6/14/05, *Koen Kooi* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> wrote:
> 
> Karoliina T. Salminen wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> I think we have been thinking about adding wiki and that it would be a
>> good idea.
>> However, I have another improvement idea in mind:
> 
>> How about discussion forums? I think they are easier to manage
>> than mailing lists, but that is just my opinion as I am a forum heavy
>> user and not
>> all are like that. Could you by the way tell your opinion about
> forums,
>> do you like or dislike
>> them? Adding e.g. phpbb running on the server wouldn't be a huge
> task I
>> think.
> 
> Forums tend to be a black hole for documentation, bugreports and fixes.
> It should be made *very* clear that forums are something *extra* to
> maemo.org <http://maemo.org>, not an integral part of it. Forums are
> nice to get newbies
> going and build a non-irc community, but shouldn't replace documentation
> and mailinglists.
> Forums also tend to be more user-oriented than developer-oriented which
> lead to developer-drain in the forums I used to frequent.
> 
> This is of cource my personal opinion as an arrogant bastard who
> actually reads docs ;)
> 
> 
>> We have several forums running on our home server already with
> phpbb and
>> the configuration
>> (including the MySQL database setup) was one evening task or so.
> 
>> One of the benefits with forums is that they are very easily
> accessible
>> with
>> the 770, I surf some forums with the 770, easy interface to check
> topics
>> that I am just
>> interested to and nothing else without waiting for ages the e-mail
>> buffer to be
>> transferred via (my mobile phone's) GPRS to the device (I don't have
>> EDGE or UMTS on my
>> phone yet, therefore I don't have the luxury to download huge
> amounts of
>> data when I am
>> not connected to WLAN with the N770, however, looking what is new in a
>> forum is
>> a few seconds long task with the N770 even with a GPRS-connection
> :) ).
> 
> A gmame (or sourceforge) like interface to the mailinglists accomplishes
> about the same for the email part.
> 
> 
>> There are different competing forum softwares out there. Which one
> would
>> you prefer by the way in case you would like the idea?
>> For example one of my favourite forums allows picture attachments
> and it
>> is pretty cool feature
>> that is not present in the phpbb:
>> http://www.fsnordic.net/discussion/
> <http://www.fsnordic.net/discussion/>
>> I don't know if it is relevant for us to have picture attachments, but
>> I was just thinking of
>> some screen shots, it would be a lot easier to attach a picture to the
>> message than put
>> the picture to your home page, and then create a [img] [/img] -link to
>> that file.
> 
> I do like to drool over screenshots in forums :)
> 
> regards,
> 
> Koen
> 
> 
> 
>> Karoliina Salminen
>> karoliina at maemo dot org
> 
> 
> 
>> ext Matt Croydon wrote:
> 
>>> Devesh,
>>>
>>> A wiki would be ideal and would allow us to create pages like the
>>> application/porting effort pages as well as create a central
> place for
>>> porting notes, lists of apps that ./configure && make, etc.
>>>
>>> --Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/14/05, Devesh Kothari < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> to support developers better. Any ideas??
>>>>
>>>> Br,
>>>> Devesh
>>>>
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> <https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] how we can enhance the maemo.org

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Karoliina T. Salminen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think we have been thinking about adding wiki and that it would be a
> good idea.
> However, I have another improvement idea in mind:
> 
> How about discussion forums? I think they are easier to manage
> than mailing lists, but that is just my opinion as I am a forum heavy
> user and not
> all are like that. Could you by the way tell your opinion about forums,
> do you like or dislike
> them? Adding e.g. phpbb running on the server wouldn't be a huge task I
> think.

Forums tend to be a black hole for documentation, bugreports and fixes.
It should be made *very* clear that forums are something *extra* to
maemo.org, not an integral part of it. Forums are nice to get newbies
going and build a non-irc community, but shouldn't replace documentation
and mailinglists.
Forums also tend to be more user-oriented than developer-oriented which
lead to developer-drain in the forums I used to frequent.

This is of cource my personal opinion as an arrogant bastard who
actually reads docs ;)


> We have several forums running on our home server already with phpbb and
> the configuration
> (including the MySQL database setup) was one evening task or so.
> 
> One of the benefits with forums is that they are very easily accessible
> with
> the 770, I surf some forums with the 770, easy interface to check topics
> that I am just
> interested to and nothing else without waiting for ages the e-mail
> buffer to be
> transferred via (my mobile phone's) GPRS to the device (I don't have
> EDGE or UMTS on my
> phone yet, therefore I don't have the luxury to download huge amounts of
> data when I am
> not connected to WLAN with the N770, however, looking what is new in a
> forum is
> a few seconds long task with the N770 even with a GPRS-connection :) ).

A gmame (or sourceforge) like interface to the mailinglists accomplishes
 about the same for the email part.

> 
> There are different competing forum softwares out there. Which one would
> you prefer by the way in case you would like the idea?
> For example one of my favourite forums allows picture attachments and it
> is pretty cool feature
> that is not present in the phpbb:
> http://www.fsnordic.net/discussion/
> I don't know if it is relevant for us to have picture attachments, but 
> I was just thinking of
> some screen shots, it would be a lot easier to attach a picture to the
> message than put
> the picture to your home page, and then create a [img] [/img] -link to
> that file.

I do like to drool over screenshots in forums :)

regards,

Koen


> 
> Karoliina Salminen
> karoliina at maemo dot org
> 
> 
> 
> ext Matt Croydon wrote:
> 
>> Devesh,
>>
>> A wiki would be ideal and would allow us to create pages like the
>> application/porting effort pages as well as create a central place for
>> porting notes, lists of apps that ./configure && make, etc.
>>
>> --Matt
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/05, Devesh Kothari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> to support developers better. Any ideas??
>>>
>>> Br,
>>> Devesh
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] maemo application porting and effort duplication

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Devesh Kothari wrote:
> I agree we need some coordination about application porting and effort
> duplication? we can create a new mailing list where people can announce
> their efforts and others can search the archive to see if someone is
> already working on it, or the other option is to open up a bug against a
> dummy package in bugzilla. Any ideas/opinions ???

A page listing ported and porting in progress apps would solve part of
this problem. A example of how it could look like:
http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=350

regards,

Koen

> 
> Br,
> Devesh
> 
> 
>>Is there any list of applications mameo guys wants
>>port on priority? I was able to cross-compile mplayer
>>and running on my board with 3gpp support. List will
>>help us not to duplicate the work in porting.
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] how we can enhance the maemo.org

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Devesh Kothari wrote:
> to support developers better. Any ideas??

Having the api docs  online 'gtk-style' would be a nice feature. A page
giving a brief overview of the components and their uses would be less
confusing as the howto.
Slightly related: do maemo devhelp books exist?

regards,

Koen


> 
> Br,
> Devesh
> 
> ___
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Re: [maemo-developers] networking questions & requests

[Koen Kooi]

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Elvis Pfützenreuter wrote:
>>Are you using avahi or howl for that?
> 
> 
> The current approach we are taking is: 
> 
> * created a patch for udhcpc so it will do link-local address
> assignment as well as DHCP (done, need to publish the package though);
> 
> * adding D-Bus support to Howl's mDNSResponder, as well as an
> easy-to-use DNS-SD API for applications.

You are in luck: avahi [1] seems to implement dbus and dns-sd already :)

Regards,

Koen

[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/Software_2fAvahi

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Re: [maemo-developers] networking questions & requests

[Koen Kooi]

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Hash: SHA1

Elvis Pfützenreuter wrote:
>>The point being that lots of cool stuff can be down with
>>auto-discovered network services. Pretty much any application could
>>conceivably benefit, if a relevant service existed. Apple has
>>zeroconf/Rendezvous services already out there, so it makes sense to
>>build on that infrastructure.
> 
> 
> Indeed, we are working on it, we will publish some packages for
> Zeroconf real soon.

Are you using avahi or howl for that?

regards,

Koen

> 
> --
> Elvis
> INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia
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Re: [maemo-developers] Developer Device Program

[Koen Kooi]

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Chris Faherty wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I sent an e-mail to the maemo developer program on may 30 but i didn't
> receive any response yet.
> 
> Does all (500) responses will be send once or did i miss something ?

Yes, see http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000233.html

regards,

Koen



> Thanks.
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Re: [maemo-developers] Porting Maemo to H4 (OMAP2420)

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Komal Shah wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I have done the setup as described in the tutorial for
> PC and ARM. 
> 
> I would like to run Maemo on H4 (this weekend...). As
> difference only lies in input methods, like resolution
> changes from 800x600 to QVGA lcd and keyboard events. 
> 
> Can anybody help me to get started on, where to start
> changes?

Point the DISPLAY in scratchbox to the Xserver on your board. That
should give you an idea how it will look. It also enables you to use
your boards keyboard while debugging apps on you host.

> 
> I am also working on custom-24xx board, which got VGA
> lcd..so that will be the next target..:-).
> 
> Is there any list of applications mameo guys wants
> port on priority? I was able to cross-compile mplayer
> and running on my board with 3gpp support. List will
> help us not to duplicate the work in porting.

The binaries from maemo.org should run unmodified on an arm1136 cpu. You
could recompile them if you need armv6 optimizations, but you'll lose
the closed-source components.

regards,

Koen

> 
> As per the earlier mail, I am also interested to look
> at 770 2.6.x kernel.
> 
> ---Komal Shah
> 
> 
>   
> __ 
> Discover Yahoo! 
> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! 
> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html 
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] api to write to the rs-mmc

[Koen Kooi]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I know nothing about soldering and HW, but have read recently that the 
> iPod Linux uses one earphone as a microphone (is that possible at all?)

A slighty oversimplified explanation:

A microphone is basically a 'reversed' speaker, it converts motion
(vibrations on the membrame) to power (current through the wire). If you
know that the plug in the device has a microphone-input wired up to the
earphone socket, you can use and earphone as a microphone.

So if the hardware supports it (the wires in the socket connect to a pin
on the chip that can record), you can use both a normal microphone and
an earplug as a means to record sound.
It all depends on the internal wiring and the configurability of the chip.

Another option is to modify a bluetooth headset to function as a
line-in, since it has been mentioned the 770 will support headsets.

hope this helps,

Koen



> 
> Regards
> Alex 
> 
> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ext Juha Yrjölä
>>
>>It'd also work nicely as a guitar effects processor due to the powerful
>>DSP.  The line-in jack is not going to be there, but with a bit of
>>soldering you might have some success. =)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Juha
> 
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Re: [maemo-developers] Xvnc vs Xnest (with screenshot :))

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2005 at 21:18, Koen Kooi wrote:
> 
> 
>>>On 6 Jun 2005 at 20:49, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Minimo ships without XUL support by default, hell, it doesn't even
>>>>*build* with XUL support at the moment. But with 123.5MB of flash you
>>>>can install firefox if you want.
>>>
> 
> du -hs in my x86 windows version of XulRunner shows .. 15 meg usage.
> 
> Still huge for the 770, but quite a bit less than  123 meg. 

And jffs2 compresses it, so it would be about 10 megs on flash. If the
rumours are true, you'd have 64MB of flash to fill with your own apps,
so space isn't a problem in this case.

regards,

Koen

> 
> --
> 
> 
> It's times like these I have to remind myself about the target market for the 
> device. It's not a tablet PC.
> 
> PyGame and Python will be interesting. I wonder how my kids would like 
> using the 770 for some educational games or watching their home-school 
> lessons via wireless. 
> 
> Well, time will tell.
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Xvnc vs Xnest (with screenshot :))

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2005 at 20:49, Koen Kooi wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Too bad minimo isn't complete yet, I find XUL/Gecko with a browser far 
>>>more useful than just a browser.
>>
>>Minimo ships without XUL support by default, hell, it doesn't even
>>*build* with XUL support at the moment. But with 123.5MB of flash you
>>can install firefox if you want.
> 
> 
> Boo hoo.. :-(
> 
> Do you have to be so realistically harsh.. :-(

I suspect it wouldn't be too hard to fix it, you could try contacting
the minimo people (e.g Doug Turner) to ask what's up with the build. It
could be today's cvs has a small hickup.

regards,

Koen
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Python bindings anyone?

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:



> This already works in Python 2.4, that is, putting .pyc files in a .zip file. 
> 
> I'm curious what extra do you need to do to support this?

How much space does this gain over normal jffs2 gzip compression? I'm
not familiar with python, but will the double gzip (jffs2 + pyzipfile)
be a big performance hit? 220MHz isn't a lot, especially dealing
languages like python.

regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] Xvnc vs Xnest (with screenshot :))

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:
> On 6 Jun 2005 at 16:53, Ed Bartosh wrote:
> 
> 
>>I don't think so. We already have Opera there. There is just no space for 
>>both of them :)
>>I'm just playing with maemo developer platform as any of you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad minimo isn't complete yet, I find XUL/Gecko with a browser far 
> more useful than just a browser.

Minimo ships without XUL support by default, hell, it doesn't even
*build* with XUL support at the moment. But with 123.5MB of flash you
can install firefox if you want.

regards,

Koen

> 
> 
> 
>>On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 16:14, ext Brad Clements wrote:
> 
> 
>>>So, can I count in a gecko/XUL engine in the production ROM release?
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Xvnc vs Xnest (with screenshot :))

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Brad Clements wrote:
> On 5 Jun 2005 at 15:41, Ed Bartosh wrote:
> 
> 
>>And of course you can look at the screenshot of mozilla-firefox and openttd 
>>running from maemo-powered scratchbox:
>>http://edbartosh.at.tut.by/maemo/screenshots/firefox_and_openttd.jpg
>>Enjoy!
> 
> 
> So, can I count in a gecko/XUL engine in the production ROM release?

I surely hope it isn't a ROM, but a RW image :)

regards,

Koen

> 
> ;-)
> 

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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: system architecture

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jakob Praher wrote:
> hi David,
> 
> thanks for your response.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>On tor, 2005-06-02 at 14:29 +0200, ext Jakob Praher wrote:
>>
>>
>>>hi all,
>>
>>You should probably read the publicly available information about both
>>maemo and Nokia 770.
>>
> 
> ok. afaik: the public information mostly deals with the maemo
> application sdk. this is why i posted here. i don't want to just raise
> the noise level :-)
> 
> i for myself am a debian user for over 6 years now. - i am working
> exclusively on debian for all my desktop stuff. so i have some
> experiences in that. IMHO a general purpose/vanilla debian distro will
> not be perfect for that job. I would concenctrate on a streamlined
> version, perhaps using an asynchronous init.d (like initng) for
> instance. this implies changing the debs, since the debs use the general
> purpose init.d right now. perhaps one could build an autmated
> translation from the existing scripts files towards a faster process.
> 
> this is just on thing I would look at.
> another would be a faster hotplug infrastructure.
> i think the shell script approach should only be used for third party
> hardware - it is costly to probe all that.
> it would also be interesting to add some udev specs for mobile devices
> (like memory sticks and stuff like that)
> 
> as I said just some random thoughts. anyways I'm looking forward to
> buying one!

My experience with a debian based distro on my ipaqs showed me that I
down reboot very often, and it boots reasonably fast (faster as my
desktop). But still it would be very, very great to have it booting up
almost instantanious. Should those attemps fail, a cool animations does
wonders too :)



> 
>>>-> Are you using ramdisk or are you reading/writing directly to the
>>>flash disk?
>>
>>To flash.
> 
> I've heard that flashs only support a limited numer of writes over time.
> Perhaps that isn't the case anymore.
About 10k - 100k depending on the technology used. Wince has been
storing settings in ram for ages and that is VERY annoying when the
battery runs out. The filesystem used (jffs2) has builtin wear leveling
to spread out the writes over the complete partition, and I'm pretty
sure /tmp and /var are on a ramdisk. With all this the internal flash
should last quite long, most likely longer as a standard flashcard in a
mp3 player/photocamera.


regards,

Koen
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Re: [maemo-developers] gtk+ and gnome-vfs, upstreamable or a fork?

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> idea is to move and merge as much as possible to mainstream, but for some 
> changes it might be easy and some difficult, so this is a goal but IMHO would 
> not happen for some time, especially some of the changes might make sense 
> only for the embedded devices UI and hildon in particular and more difficult 
> to pass and accepted in mainstream.

We have the same "problem" in GPE as we modify gtk for a better
stylus-behaviour too, but there's at least one osso reference in the
maemo-gtk. It built fine without it, so it might be an unintended
addition. I'll try maemo with a stock gtk 2.6.7 when I have some time.
Thanks for the answers.

regards,

Koen
> Devesh
> 
> 
> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ext Koen Kooi
>>Sent: 31 May, 2005 15:57
>>To: maemo-developers@maemo.org
>>Subject: [maemo-developers] gtk+ and gnome-vfs, upstreamable 
>>or a fork?
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>After poking through the patches, it seems both the gtk+ and gnome-vfs
>>found in the repository require some incarnation of osso. I would like
>>to use maemo apps on my Sharp Zaurus with a stock gtk+ and
>>gnome-vfs-dbus, but that's not possible at the moment.
>>Is it planned to clean up gtk+ and gnome-vfs, get patches 
>>into upstream
>>and use stock versions in later maemo releases, or will you 
>>effectively
>>fork gtk+ and gnome-vfs?
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Koen
>>
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[maemo-developers] gtk+ and gnome-vfs, upstreamable or a fork?

[Koen Kooi]

Hello,

After poking through the patches, it seems both the gtk+ and gnome-vfs
found in the repository require some incarnation of osso. I would like
to use maemo apps on my Sharp Zaurus with a stock gtk+ and
gnome-vfs-dbus, but that's not possible at the moment.
Is it planned to clean up gtk+ and gnome-vfs, get patches into upstream
and use stock versions in later maemo releases, or will you effectively
fork gtk+ and gnome-vfs?

regards,

Koen

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