Re: Discontinue distributing Maemo Bug Jars via email?
Hallo! During the MeeGo conference, I had one person request I stop sending out Bug Jars via email. Does anyone find receiving them via email useful? Shall I continue to send them via email or not? I do not have a problem with the emails, I would rather prefer to drop it from the planet, just because the device internal RSS feed reader is not helpful if I want to skip long text entries and I do read planet using this reader. Also generated content is not the typical blog content, thus posting it there might not where people expect it. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Gtk background pixmap style for button widget
Hi. I have a question specific to Gtk(mm) programming for Maemo 5. In a dialog of an application I would like to mark one of the buttons green, like the call button in the call UI. I have found the appropriate images in /etc/hildon/theme/images (e.g. AcceptFingerButtonNormal.png). I'm trying to set those images with Gtk::Widget::modify_bg_pixmap() to change the draw style. But this does not have any effect. Running the program with strace shows that the file is indeed successfully opened. Can someone enlighten me how to achieve the desired effect? Maybe someone can even provide a few lines of source code which are known working? The rtcom-call-ui is not available as source, or is it? Thanks a lot for any help in advance, Tim -- AllemaniACs RoboCup TeamKBSG - Knowledge-Based Systems Group http://robocup.rwth-aachen.de RWTH Aachen University http://www.kbsg.rwth-aachen.de Ahornstrasse 55 http://www.fawkesrobotics.org D-52056 Aachen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N810, GPS and Java
Hello! still having some trouble trying to put together an interface to the GPS device on the N810. Overall I need to retrieve the current location (not sure what kind of data the GPS driver (or the gpsd) returns on the N810) that eventually I can feed into Google Maps API (or something equivalent) to show me my current location on a map. If anyone has ventured along these paths and has some suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. If existing apps are out there that can already performed these operations it would even be better so that I don't re-invent the wheel. GPSJinni sources contain for accessing the GPS via liblocation (and there is also some code to access gpsd via libgps) for N810 and N900 and visualizes most of the raw data returned. Contact me for details. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Extras-testing improvements
Hello! myself. But poor quality applications reflect badly on maemo.org community as well. Do you want to be part of a community which is known Right. But for this we have rating and another repository does not really help solving this. If this results in extras containing 100 5 star rated applications and 1 one star rated applications in some other extras-authors repository Nokia is not not happy either. Who is to blame? If on the other hand if the repository is full of one star rated application who is to blame, too ;-)? Another repository is just hiding things but it does not make applications better or the repository containing more applications (which seem to be unsurpising interests in extras). As Graham stated there are other ways required to improve this. for its low quality standards? Notice that the current extras-testing QA requirements are quite low: I agree. I don't thing that the requirements are a real problem. But the current process seems sub-optimal. Possibly the goal of the extras repository has to be clearified (not changed!). If the process gets simpler we may even be able to add further checks (not blockers). I especially would be interested in automatic tests if possible. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Extras-testing improvements
Hallo! I (still) suggest to formulate a vision statement, that should clearly describe the purpose of extras. This formulating should be the guiding line to define further detailed rules and to judge if a new suggested rule is in compliance to the existing vision. Since there seem to be two interpretations of the purpose of extras, this is IMHO really necessary to avoid that every discussion about a new rule or policy results in a discussion about the vison in whole. A vision statement should define a target/purpose and a strategy to reach the target. A possible vision statement for extra scould contain the following aspects: * We want to make open source software available for the maemo platform in the most convinient way for the user * We want to make it as easy as possible for the developer of open source software to publish his software to every maemo device owner. * We do not want that the over all user experience of owner of a maemod evice is degraded by installing and running open source software (hmmm, tricky, in fact I want to say that *other* application or not negativly influence by the new software and this does not imply anything on the quality of the software itself). * We want to aply mechanism that help the developer judge the quality of his software, the recepted user experience of the end user while using his sofware and want to give him clear hints how his software could be improved to better fit the device philiosophy and end user needs. If we want an uncontrolled place for apps then we need the extras-author someone suggested yesterday. There is nothing stopping us creating that. But, if we do then my prediction is that Extras will be dead within 3 months. If there is a place where user's can look for latest and greatest apps then everyone will enable it, developers will stop bothering to promote their apps to Extras, and a short time later, everyone's devices will start to die because the apps there are not optified, run down the battery, etc. The question is, what would be the purpose fo the extras-author? Is there a possible vision statement for extras and extras-authors that make them distinguishable? For me it looks like, extras-author is just extras without the tests. What would be the purpose? For me it sounds like a short cut for the developer to avoid the hassle with the extras QA. But this would just be a (not that good) workaround for the problem that current extras processes is not optimal. Should we not spend our time and energy to improve the extras process instead? If we have a faster walk through for applications in extras we do not need a hot new stuff repository. If we automate tests, too. If we handle updated better, too. Perhaps extras and extras -author have the same target but only different strategies? I think we have set up an initial version of the extras proces. Now we have gained some experiences. Perhaps it is time (since we also have that mameo-MeeGo merge Thing underway) to openly discuss the process, optimize and refine it. This would would also move us into a stronger position while discussing future MeeGo infrastructure because we not only do have the experience but also we have already learned something from them and are already int he optimize stage :-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: External Repository and HAM
Hallo! The mass-downthumbing people might see is just a temporary (?) solution to optimize testing resources. The idea is that it should be immediately visible that this package is NOT going to be promoted, so testers should not vaste From the developer view thumbs down without a explanation are a no-go. With such (unavailability) of information I cannot be sure if the tester found a new bug, which he did not state, or just found an existing bug (or is just collecting karma). Because of that I can never be sure, that my package goes through testing even after fixing all mentioned bugs. Please at least write a one sentence exmplanation for a thumb down that just give they keywords for already found bugs e.g. something like, Thumbs down because of Bugtracker URL, About Dialog, spelling mistake as stated). This should not slow down testing very much but avoid the developer feeling like he has just been hit by the spanish inquisition ;-) I would also be happy that while an application already has a thumb down that further people test it to find more bugs (until there is a real blocker like not beeing able to install the application). A sequence of found one bug - fixed one bug - found one bug - fixed one bug is very anoying (ith this limited testing resources (which should better be named the people nobody knows of that do excellent work :-)). On a side note I would make screenshots (where applicable) also mandatory for promotion to -testing, on the same grounds as a bugtracker, but the ideas/message counter is in the red zone already, so I'm going to stop here... :) As far as I now screenshot are part of the download page and just can only added after a download page has been created. A download page is created *after* promoting the application from extras-testing to extras. This is IMHO a bug in the process (if there is not another way I don't know about). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: External Repository and HAM
Hallo! And the most important things which guide my decision, is that currently, many thumb down make me angry as there was wrong vote, and the fact that i m passing more time to package than to develop didn't help. If the votes are wrong, complain. If they are not, then fix them. Don't split the user's experience. Why do you think the answer is to make every Where? I may know the right name, but if I would not, where on the page is stated where I can complain? Where is the This vote is wrong, please change it button? I made two bugs about improving information in similar cases, but last time I looked there were not handled. Is there anyone working on the interface to improve/fix? Feel free to propose improvements to the process. See above. Are there resources to work on such topics, how big is the change that such problems will be fixed/discussed/improved with in lets say 1 month? This is really the point of Extras. The QA process is supposed to be lightweight and just to verify that the apps don't damage anything (i.e. From the developer view this does not feel lightweight (or better fast) enough. There were discussions about fast tracking, reducing the time limit, the number of votes etc, there weere even strong complains... but I feel not much happend :-/ -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: External Repository and HAM
Hello! Graham, (et al.) I appreciate your concern about shared resources, but it seems to me that you are overstating the problem. As an example, I quickly checked the repository lines in sources.list on several different Ubuntu boxes I support. One box included a third party repository for TOR. Another included third party repositories for Chromium and Scratchbox. It seems as if there is a long, well established tradition of supporting multiple repositories. These are possibly not the best examples for using shared resources. For me essential shared resources are libraries and base functionality like: * libcairo, libpng, tiff, gif etc.. * qt, gtk, tcl * pearl, phython, ruby Scratchbox (on my debian system) does not bring own versions of such shared libraries so this is not a problem. And I assume that THOR neither does. The problems come not with multiple repositories but with different/same/differently build versions of the same resources. This results in application A 1.0 from repository A also offering shared resource a to use shared resource a' (which is a variant of a) from repository B and which is subtle different and breaks A 1.0 (without author of A 1.0 even knowing, because he does not use repository B). Now trouble starts between the suppliers of both repositories to sort things out (but I need.., but it must not...). Things even get more funnier with 10 repositories ;-) In fact this must highly coordinated (and is IMHO one of the reason dtsributions exist). Yes, it is possible that two different apps might rely on libraries with the same name but different features, but if this is a significant problem, then I would expect bug tracking systems to rapidly uncover and lead towards a proper resolution of the problems, and community pressure would lead towards the two different application repositories to resolve their issues or see one of them fall out of favor. Hmm, possibly yes (but I doubt the end user would use the bug tracker as much as it must to sort things out), but it takes time to sort things out and to change and meanwhile the bad image of the device and it environment is already there. We should sort things out in one repository, this is much easier and better than making customer first fall into the pit and later on getting him out of the pit again... The simplest looking way is only simple until the next corner ;-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Screenshots to user installable GUI packages in extras-testing [was Re: External Repository and HAM]
Hello! Sorry ? I don't follow. We don't have the luxury of natural selection and wait for applications to actually cause damage to crystallize a score on a web page (which is BTW not even visible from the Application manager). I do believe that Extras as default was given the green light by Nokia in good part because the extras-testing concept proved as a working (albeit not perfect) measure to increase quality of software encountered by end users. I think initialy (and hopefully still) extras was not about good or bad software, its was about software that does not break your device (and does what it told). That is what QA must try to target. Comments about usability, spelling mistakes improvements are good (and I personally got some good hints by such comments, so I do not want to miss them), but that should not avoid applications getting into extras. That was (AFAIK) the initial vision (and if it is not somewhere explicitely state, it should). Everything else (apps egtting better and better) is an result of personal motivation, positive/negative feedback, karma, voting etc... To get such positive feedback the additional limits for getting software into extras should be low (since we want to have the as much as possibly *working* applications in extras). Note also that the numbers of applications in extras is somehow possibly also a obvious, measureable marketing relevant information, while quality is not that clear - so for Nokia is possibly not the only goal to only have excellent quality application in extras. As always things are complicated ;-) I would accept this as a valid argument IF you did not have the option of installing applications from downloads.maemo.org. But you do. If you go that route, you will never ever see the application icon - the screenshots have the same purpose there. Plus, for better or worse, Nokia is moving in this very direction of installing via browsers. Yes, it is wise to have a screenshot, but if the application is not downloaded because of a missing screenshot this is a problem for the author, but not for Nokia neither for the community (it does not do any harm to the end user). Of course we are also interested in a good repository and this includes screenshots for asmuch applications as possible, but to get as much developers interested and have a very low entry barrier it may be more wise so send a regular friendly reminder to the author or make the applkication disaapear from the front page earlier (within a definded process) instead of making this a clear entry barrier, makeing the author stop working for maemo (MeeGo). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Fwd: MFS Talk. Tuesday, 16th March. Rob Taylor, The Semantic Desktop, SPARQL and You!
I know this list isn't usually used for local-ish announcements but people here who are based near Manchester, UK, might find this interesting... Original Message Subject: [Fsuk-manchester] MFS Talk. Tuesday, 16th March. Rob Taylor, The Semantic Desktop, SPARQL and You! Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:19:14 + From: Michael Dorrington michael.dorring...@gmail.com To: Manchester Free Software fsuk-manches...@nongnu.org * Talk: The Semantic Desktop, SPARQL and You! * Speaker: Rob Taylor * Location: The Lass O' Gowrie's Salmon Room (upstairs). * Address: 36 Charles Street, Manchester. M1 7DB. * Website: http://www.thelass.co.uk/ * Date: Tuesday, 16th March 2010 (3rd Tuesday of the month) * Start time: 19:00 * Finish time: 20:30 Details --- Rob Taylor will be giving a version of his FOSDEM 2010 talk, The Semantic Desktop, SPARQL and You![1] You've probably heard about the Semantic Web and the Semantic Desktop. But what lies behind the buzzwords? Let's look together at at effective examples, running code and actual applications. Be inspired, tame the sparql beast and join the future of desktop computing! Helpful links: * Semantic Web Road map by Tim Berners-Lee http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Semantic.html * GNOME: The Semantic Desktop http://live.gnome.org/SemanticDesktop Rob Taylor: Managing Director, Codethink Ltd http://www.codethink.co.uk/ - Rob has been developing software since he was just nine years old. His personal focus has always been on working with powerful middleware and frameworks with the aim of providing a far more compelling user experience. Having been educated in Mathematics and Computer Science at Cambridge University, Rob began working on embedded Linux systems back in 1999. In January of 2007 Rob founded Codethink Ltd, an Open Source consulting company that aims to Provide Genius wherever it's needed. He continues to attract like-minded individuals with a variety of specialist skills to the company with the aim of driving forward Open Source technologies and providing expert consultancy to businesses around the world. Location The meeting will take place at the usual time, 7pm, at the Lass O'Gowrie pub on Charles Street in Central Manchester. We will be located in the Salmon Room upstairs, although there will be people around a little earlier downstairs (probably sampling the food and drinks on offer). Just ask at the bar if you can't find us. Their website[2] has full details of how to get there and the fine selection of food and drink available. The venue also provides WiFi. More Information General information about Manchester Free Software meetings can be found on our websites[3][4][5]. If you would like five minutes to tell us about something, please contact us at t...@manchester.fsuk.org. [1]: http://live.gnome.org/Brussels2010/Devroom#Philip_Van_Hoof.2C_Rob_Taylor.2C_Roberto_Guido [2]: http://www.thelass.co.uk/ [3]: http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/Meetings [4]: http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Manchester/2010-03-16 [5]: http://manchester.fsuk.org/blog/meetings/ ___ Fsuk-manchester mailing list fsuk-manches...@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 PR1.2 and Extras
Hallo! What happens to apps (especially those with Qt dependencies) _currently_ in Extras, i.e., how will they get to the fremantle1.2 Extras repo ? The Qt apps are currently blocked from being promoted to prevent issues. The fremantle-1.2 repository will probably need to be 'legacy' clean. Qt 4.5.3 is not available in Extras and will probably not be available on any repository enabled by default on the device. This means that applications depending on this, will not work. Those applications need actual changes to work with Qt4.6 iirc. No, what happens witht he packages currently ine extras? * Will they automatically moved to fremantle-1.2 Extras? Sounds like this is not possible. * Will they automatically rebuild against then current SDK? f yes, how do we find out it will work? * Will fremantle-1.2 Extras be intially empty and we have to get all packages in it again trhought he extras-testing process (Ooohhh, n, that will take ages!) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
UK Maemo firmware location = Rapidshare??!
Hey there, Does anyone know why the current N900 UK firmware is only available on rapidshare? http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_UK_variant_firmware I installed stuff from extras-devel and thus my n900 wants me to flash it - I'd be happy to do so, however downloading the firmware has proved somewhat of a challenge. Someone has been using Rapidshare as a usable file host. http://rapidshare.com/files/346892600/RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1.203.2_PR_F5_203_ARM.bin which is meant to allow one to download the latest UK generic firmware won't allow me to download the relevant file due to rapidshare being completely unhelpful and fail and wanting me to pay to download from it. Considering I bought the bleeding device (which I love dearly!) does anyone know of a reason these files aren't available from a *.maemo.org or *.nokia.com site...? :) I'd really really like to upgrade my phone soon! :) Any help or pointers is always appreciated. :) Cheers, Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: HOWTO: Query installed application
Hello! Take a look at libapt-pkg-dev,. You can also check the sources of PackageView. I'm however unsure if you can access the icons using this way. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Check is app installed from another app
Hallo! I'm just wondering what's the best way to check is an application installed from another application? perhaps doing a system(dpkg -l mypackage) and checking the return value is good enough? lib-apt-pkg offers programatic access to the local repository. However it needs some setup and my be thus a little to big solution. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Quick start packaging guide
Hi, I sat down this week with Jeremiah Foster... Great work, guys! Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Autobuilder = ww.maemo.org
Hello! Hmm, I know tzhis is a hated question, but is the autobuilder for fremantle alive? At http://maemo.org/packages/repository/builds/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/all/ the latest build is from ~22:00 UTC yesterday. I have uploaded a number of packages around 24:00 UTC+1 but non of them appeared. I know that in rare circumstances there are long build that make the Autobuilder *appear* to hang, so I would like emphasize on another aspect (while still beeing interested on the state :-)). For me the natural landing package as a developer is http://maemo.org/development/. That worked good in the past but for me it seems some (new) important features are not visible available on this page, namely the everything around building, uploading and promoting packages. Examples: * http://maemo.org/packages/ does not seem to be linked on the landing pge, while it is very important for my day to day work as a developer. * I would expect some helthness state about the various autobuilders here. It would be enough to have some green/red signal here. Other infrastructure aspect of course should/could be placed here, too. * I would expect some process image somewhere in the upload image, stating various aspects of infrastructure and packages evloving from extras-devel to extras.The text is here but sometime an image is better. Giving state a clear name that reappears under .../packages in texts, buttons of course would be a winner... * I just promoted a package to extras-testing (the button was only called promote, extras-testing was not mentioned) and I expect QA to check for the existance of a proper packgae for maemo5 on downloads including a screenshot. While scanning the documentation multiple times I have not yet found out how I create such entry for maemo5 (I know how it works for =OS2008) and I assume that somewhere in the process it wass created automatically (after promotion to testing?). I can file a bug for every aspect,if some responsible person just says (make a bug) but I think some discusssion may be worthwhile, too. If this was already discussed elsewhere and there already exists a grand plan/bugs, just tell me. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Aw: Autobuilder = ww.maemo.org
Hello! Hmm, I know tzhis is a hated question, but is the autobuilder for fremantle alive? it is, seconds after sending the mail, the first OKs arrived. fine! This however may make my suggestion even more valid, making me not writring silly i do not have trust in autobuilder that fast, making admina smoking more cigarettes than before. Btw, besides hick ups the builder appears much faster now. That is great! -- Gruß... Tim___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Aw: Autobuilder = ww.maemo.org
Hallo! This however may make my suggestion even more valid, making me not writring silly i do not have trust in autobuilder that fast, making admina smoking more cigarettes than before. ? I don't want to bother the admin of the system by Is it still alive mails everytime autobuilder does not react in 10 minutes. You should spend your time to more important task than aswering my (and others) questions about the state of the system. If you subscribe to the extras-cauldron-builds list, you could see that there was a package severely stuck. I would see this as a short time workaround, but would propose a live and short time history state overview solutions as mid- to longterm solutions. Nevetheless the workaround should get a prominent state in the developer landing page (I now remember that you might haven given this advice multiple times before?). FAQ? Ed promised to create a fix for buildme, so broken packages can't block the queue anymore. OK. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to destroy your community
Hello! Please show up at the next monthly sprint meeting and take some tasks to improve things then. How much time and energy are you willing to pitch in personally? (While not address to me). That is too simple. I'm developer, spending much of my free time in maemo related developing. I must be able to hint at problems and make suggestions without realizing them by myself. I know that this is a common open source problem (people always only want to make the nice stuff). But in the end people were nominated/paid/raised their hand to be responsible for something. I must be able to address tasks to these people, because for various reason they are or should be experts. And as long as these people exists I do not want the hear come there and offer help but I want to here Bullshit or I put it on the TODO list (and of course lets further disccuss). If positions are vacant or people have too much workload or there are urgent things to do adn help is required, this should be addressed, communicated and hopefully resolved (and also adressed to the community with request for help). It should also communicated if this breaks and TODO lists get to long to get handled anytime soon (something communities break at this point because all have ideas but nobody wants to do anything). Possibly I may take a job I feel confortable with in the end, but that should not stop me pointing at problems and increase the size of the TODO list. Do it yourself sound like a easy way to get rid of problems. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Autobuilder build error (unmet dependencies)
Hello! What is happening here? [2010-01-20 10:14:11] fakeroot apt-get -y -q -o APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated=1 install --no-remove libillumination0-dev libapt-pkg-dev /dev/null Reading package lists... Building dependency tree... Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: libillumination0-dev: Depends: libillumination0 (= 0.1.20100115-1) but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages See: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/packageview_0.4.20100104-4/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt And: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/libillumination0-dev/0.1.20100115-1/ Is this an effect of the PR 1.1 problem and I have to rebuild libIllumination, too? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-devel] List emails subject prefix
Hallo! So what if us who can get themselves a proper mail client just configure them to remove these [maemo-devel] droppings on our side? Sure, there is such option too ;) But I also read mails on N900 and Modest do not have such one ;( Neither thunderbird AFAIK. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: New optification issues in extras-testing
Hallo! In sum, what is the upside of including anything but symlinks on the NAND? IMHO, it should punt everything to /opt as long as it is needed at all. Thanks for maemo-optify, it makes things so much lazier^H^H...easier. :) Symlinks take space on disk, too. I'm not sure if they take a whole block or a part of it but there is likely a limit where a links costs more space than the data itself. Is this where the 2K come from? We also should keep care that we do not run out of inodes (which IMHO should not be a problem if we replace the real file with a link because that does/should not increase the amount of inodes). -- Gruß... Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Maemo CLI application icon (take 2)...
Hi everyone, I've updated the proposed CLI icon/badge and posted them here: http://samoff.com/random/maemo/term_icon/ You should also notice that there's an Application Manager sample of how the icon might be used as a badge over other, pre-existing icons. Feedback, as usual, is appreciated. Thanks, Tim P.S. I know that Graham wanted this to go to the -developers list, but I remember others wanting the discussion to stay here. Please let me know where it should go and I will forward and continue the discussion there. -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo CLI application icon (take 2)...
Randy, Randall Arnold wrote: In one example I can't even see the underscore... Must be your old eyes. :p Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA process for middleware (libfoo, python-bar) packages: some ideas
Hello! I believe we can improve on this area: to have safer and optimized Do we have a problem? Does testing applications instead of enablers make us let problems go into extras that do not pass the extras criteria? Let me give some examples of such possible bugs: * A new version of libfoo is uploaded with unexpected ABI (Application Binary Interface) changes. At the same time some application is compiled against it and it works fine, so the package (together with libfoo) is promoted to extras. OTOH, this new version libfoo does not play well with the existing packages in extras, which will break or even fail to start Yes, this might be a problem. Could we test this automatically by checking missing symbols of binaries against offered symbols of libraries (for hard linking errors). Not hard linking errors can only be detected by testing all depending applications? * A new version of python-foo (some binding for libfoo) is uploaded to extras-devel, but contains a serious flaw that makes it segfault when calling method xyz(). At the same time, GUI application is uploaded which depends on that newer version, but does not use xyz() at all. In this case, the current QA checks would basically allow the application and python-foo to enter extras, but some future application which tries to use xyz() will segfault, blocking it from entering extras until python-foo is fixed. Yes. There were discussions in the past how to handle, manage, maintain libraries that have multiple dependend applications with different maintainers. I do not remember that a solution was found (besides talk to each other, make a bug) * Require (or strongly recommend) *all* packages to have at least some sort of unit/functional testing. In fact, most packages imported from Debian has tests, but what usually happens is that they are disabled so the package can build on scratchbox. IMHO that does not solve above problems and such strong requirement will possibly keep a number of libraries ot of the repository (including mine). Possibly even once that are part of the platform? In fcat to solve above problems this would mean that I do not have to test my application but I must test in my application if all functions I call from foreign code is available and does what I expect it does. Of course if I would write tests for my library they would always pass and still could break applications anytime. If I drop functions I will drop the test, too. If I change the meaning of an function I will adapt the test, too. Same goes for applications. You want to test interactions between applications and libraries so you must have test cases for this interaction. And while I apreciate automatic test suits I and most other small problems cannot manage this because of lack of resources. I likely find 90% of my bugs using application functionality tests much faster (doing server development in my job things are different...). * Have some way to run these tests automatically from the package sources when uploading packages to the autobuilder. * Exercise installation of packages (maybe using piuparts? See http://packages.debian.org/sid/piuparts), if possible on a real device. I think the maemo version of lintian does/will do such stuff but not by installing but by checking package for known failures. A working installation is not good enough. You would need to start the application but how do you check that it works? We should solve easy problems first and extending such mechanism possibly fixes/finds more problems faster? * Test disk-full conditions, and randon errors during package installation of packages from Extras. Disk full on installation is a problem of the packaging mechnism and normally not a problem of the package (if it does not run space using scripts on its own during installation). For checking disk full conditions on the application you must install it, run it and trigger its writing functionality. To do this automatically is somewhere between difficult and impossible. * Promote usage of ABI check tools. Yes. As mentioned above. I would suggest to the tester to collect reoccuring testing failures they have the feeling that could found automatically and contact the build masters in such case (by filing an bug/enhacement request) - if they are not doing this anyway already -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Maemo CLI application icon (take 1)...
Hi, I've been working on an icon to be used by CLI applications in the Maemo Application Manager. Take a look: http://samoff.com/random/maemo/term_icon/ Let me know what you think (good or bad). I'm happy to make changes if needed. Thanks, Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo CLI application icon (take 1)...
Hi, Do you reckon it's feasible to have an emblem (say the jigsaw piece) which can be overlaid on any icon to represent it? It looks pretty legible on the 48x48 icon IMHO. Sure, but then we'd have to require all devs to actually _do_ this (i.e., make an icon and overlay the puzzle piece, etc.). Or, could this be done dynamically? Minor nit: _ is great for my nostalgia for a BBC prompt, but is probably better as $_ for Linux :-) Good point. I wasn't thinking. ;) We could even extend it to #_ for ones (such as nmap) which require root? (and a stronger yellow to indicate its increased danger) Just more icons... I don't think we could change that detai dynamically! I'll update the icons and reupload...sometime. More comments before I get back into are good too. Cheers, Andrew Thanks, Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, Btw, I should have the first version of the emblem complete by Monday. It would be today, but I've got other priorities. :( Anyway... Working on it, as it is my Sprint task for this month. Tim Valerio Valerio wrote: Hi, On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org mailto:and...@bleb.org wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 14:27, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com mailto:vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Voting open: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ How is Brainstorm supposed to work. I *think* I support solution #4, but - as I explained earlier - I think this should also be the option of an emblem so that a meaningful icon can also be shown: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg22410.html This is effectively solution #4, but the concrete specification says all [...] should use the same icon in the application manager. Depending on your definition of icon and same, I either agree or disagree with this :-) Add a new solution, I think that's the right way when things aren't clear for you. Best, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Best Practices
Hi, - Original message - Message: 9 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 22:58:37 -0600 From: Edward Page eop...@byu.net Subject: Maemo Best Practices To: maemo-developers@maemo.org maemo-developers@maemo.org Cc: tex...@ovi.com Message-ID: b54804ea0912072058n363a5b3dh33c3284a378b8...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi All, I was talking to texrat recently who had the idea of organizing best practices for app development. Ed Page (epage) Great idea! Please take a look at my OLD Maemo UI doc for some additional ideas: http://samoff.com/maemoui/ Lets do this! Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA Process for non user/* packages and how Application Manager handles upgrades (was: Re: extras-devel - extras-testing auto-promotion not working?)
Hello! That's what is happening at the moment with python-osso. [...] So unless someone promotes a user/* package to extras-testing that has Depends: python-osso (= 0.4.0-0maemo2) , python-osso will remain broken on extras extras-testing. That also happend for me recently with libIllumination even in extras-devel! A bugfix does not get installed by the device. Is this the same effect? If yes, thrilling is that I have a n:1 constellation where multiple application depend on the same library, where the applications do not have any dependencies on each other. So I must increase the version and force a rebuild with a higher dependency for *all* application packages? If I miss one, funny things will likely happend, with some people having the new version and some the old. The effect occured recently. I assume because before libIllumination had a user/* category (which was identified as bug). That all sound very broken... Imaging this happening for the community based hildon add-on controls library, which is likely widly spread in future. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Aw: windows garbage like raster
Hello! This sounds possibly like an effect I had with my application (not using gtk but only gtk theming) with the pre-production device firmware but that seems to have dissapeared with the new, production firmware. -- Gruß... Tim___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
Hello! The following is a rant about XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description with some suggestions for improvement... Change Log handling (at that time for the downlaod page however ) was discussed before! See: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg16160.html -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Package does not end up in DIABLO extras-devel
Hello! Packages are starting to show up in diablo's repos now. I will try a look into this and make sure things are working as they should be. I don't want to restart any services or have any unplanned downtime so I am not going to be intrusive, just poke around and see if I can find any obvious issues. While I got success mails for uploads of a new (lib)illumination version, it still does not appear in the extras-devel repository (http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/i/illumination/). For fremantle everything works as expected. It seems that at least for me something is still broken in the diablo autobuilder process. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Mails about ratings from Downloads
Hallo! I'm interested in such mails (AFAIK I was possibly even the person who requested the feature ;-)). I'm intersted in getting to know that somebody rated my application since I'm intersted in improving the rating of my applications. Getting a mail makes it possible to react on ratings (without regulary polling the web pages which would be a pain for 10 packages) and for example contact the author to get more information about the reason of his rating and to find ways to change the application so that he would increase his rating. There were several case where I was able to fix/improve the application and get a higher rating in turn. I would be intersted in getting more information in the mails (currently I walk the link to get more information). So please do not remove this feature (but possibly make it configurable per user if other people are not interested) but enhance it! -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Follow up from QA meeting on IRC
Hello! That all sounds OK. One other point that just came into my mind. Is it possible (I havn't yet promoted something) to leave some message to the testers while promoting application to extras-testing (or even leave permantent comments regarding testing as part of the application description)? Reason with concrete example: One of the testing requirements is that more than normal power consuming applications should give a hint at first start. In this case tester need to know how first start is detected and how the application can be made to think it was first started. In my case I would realize this with a hidden configuration file (~/.blabla.xml) that has to be deleted. This must be known by the tester. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: read XML files
Hello! Is there a way to read XML files in the Maemo distribution ? The GNOME XML library is available (should be libxml2-dev, libxml2). See also http://xmlsoft.org/. It is also possible that QT has a XML library, too (I'm not using QT). If not can you recommend one available in extras ? If not can you recommend one ? libxml is a C library. I'm happy with it, but a C++ (QT) library might have (or might not) an easier interface. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
Hello! Except how do you try to prevent abuse (whether intentional or accidental)? At least with the version number you've got some safety check (although it is in no way comprehensive). It also requires more changes at more levels (I bet), so harder to implement. I think it is time to decide (again?) if we trust developers in their atempt to get their software/package into extras or not. There are some points in the decussion about handling of extras-testing extras propagation for which we should find a simple solution for - once we have finally (for some time ;-)) decided about trust. It looks to me that currently we are randomly hopping form the trust to the as stable as possible road back and forth and have to discuss/find (implicitely) the road we are on for every sub problem again and again. We likely agree that either extreme is not good for different reasons, but we havn't a clear definition for the middle way either (it is dark out there even in the night on the highway). We defined some criteria for extras which I find astonishly lax in some parts (but since I likely will have advantages for my software because of this I will not complain ;-)) and on the other hand sometimes it looks like we are defining fort knox. Perhaps we have different definitions for the trust and stability of one package and trust and stability of the repository in whole (breaking dependencies etc...) but then lets clearify that. Breaking a package is not nice but not really a drama for the community, breaking the repository or large parts of it will be a far bigger problem. (Perhaps we should also define what we expect the average user to be able to handle. Since such assumptions have consequences, too). Again: What is our vision for extras? P.S.: Don't trust my version numbers! Trust my checkbox choice! -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
More Git/Garage issues...
Hi, I was using Git with Garage just fine...until yesterday. Now, every time I try to push files to the project, I get this output: --- tims-macbook:hermes tim$ git push origin master error: Cannot access URL https://git.maemo.org/projects/hermes/, return code 22 error: failed to push some refs to 'https://git.maemo.org/projects/hermes' --- Anyone know why this might be happening? Andrew Flegg tested this on his end and was able to push. I didn't do anything to my config since it was working. Thanks! Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: More Git/Garage issues...
Hi, Please make sure you have filled in your garage credentials to ~/.netrc. The info that needs to be added there is the following: machine git.maemo.org login __garage user name__ password __garage password__ Thanks, Ferenc! All is well now. :) Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 - Playing sounds from Qt
Hello! I tried using libcanberra, and my example works on the desktop, but when I move it to Scratchbox, I get a CA_ERROR_NOTAVAILABLE when I call ca_context_play(). [...] Should I be doing something different? Is there a better API? What do linux game developers usually use for playing short sounds? Can anybody provide any examples? AFAIK, libcanberra is mainly for triggering playing system sounds (from some system sound theme), like in play the sound the OS defiens to be played when I pressing a button. For playing any sound (and much more :-)) you can use the gstreamer API. take a look at: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ Section Multimedia APIs -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo 5 - Playing sounds from Qt
Hello! Isn't it a bit of an overkill to set up an entire GST pipeline just to play a blip sound? Yes, but if you want to play your own sound or any sound on the filesystem this seems the way to go (libcanberra is for predefined sounds for predefined events). Lower level ways are likely forbitten, higher level ways likely require more code. Is there something more lightweight? You can use playbin (or playbin2?) for simplifing the pipeline building process. That still makes it a number of lines of code (but of course you will wrap that into a helper method :-)). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Using Git and garage.maemo.org: Some issues...
Hi, Over the last couple of days, I've had to become familiar with Git on garage.maemo.org (much thanks to Andrew Flegg) in order to push the www files I've been working on for Hermes. Git via terminal is easy enough and all of my commits have gone upstream without a hitch... Well, not completely... After committing files, I haven't seen any change to the project webpage (even when the project tree shows that all of the files have been updated). This is after waiting over 2 hours to allow for any Git refresh lag. Is there something I'm missing? As a last attempt, I've renamed my index file from index.htm to index.html, just in case g.m.o isn't configured to execute .htm files. That's fine, so long as we all know it. But, my real question is: How long should we have to wait to see changes reflected from out Git commits? You can see my progress history here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=summary As you'll see, I committed my new files last night, but only figured out that I had to remove the old files this morning. Then, I renamed the index file. Thanks for any guidance. Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Using Git and garage.maemo.org: Some issues...
Hi, David King wrote: http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/index.htm and see the new site without problems... Ah, but here's wherein the problem lies. I renamed the .htm file to .html over 30 minutes ago, and it's still not registering as changed when you try http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/index.html (even though the tree shows that the file has indeed been renamed). But, even more importantly, I deleted the old files quite a while ago, but you can still see the old site at http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/index.html . So... Is there an issue with deleting files via Git? Thanks for your response! -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Issues with Python and maemo-optify (was: Re: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes...)
Hi, Since I'm not a developer, you can't completely rely on my thinking, but... It seems logical to optify Python (completely) in a way that makes application optificxation a necessity for Python developers. This would ensure an exception when people write apps and either (a) forget to optify (if it's left unautomated), or (b) force 'no' optification when building, therefore alerting devs to 'do it right.' So, without being able to say which method would work best, I do think that optifying Python would benefit Maemo development beyond just the 'size' issue. Thanks, Tim -- http://samoff.com - Original message - On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: Anderson wrote: I plan to write up the conclusions and actions from the BOF as a follow-up to Tim's notes, however on the Python issue would one of these two options work well (from a point of view of expediency and pragmatism): 1) Build Python with a prefix of /opt/maemo/usr. Hardcode, either in an init script, or Python, PYTHONPATH to /opt/maemo/usr/lib/python2.5:/usr/lib/python2.5:/... 2) Add an init.d script which bind mounts /opt/maemo/usr/lib/python2.5 over /usr/lib/python2.5 at boot. I don't see any reasons why any of the above two would not work, so it might be interesting to at least try them with a small experiment to the python2.5-minimal package. But note that still no Python package (including applications) can have their executable scripts (i.e. those called directly by the interpreter) optified, otherwise a similar problem to optifying /usr/bin/python2.5 will occur. Both of these would handle the issues with some Python modules not being optified, and get Python out of the rootfs. We will give them a try, together with some more obvious size optimizations :) Thanks, -- Anderson Lizardo OpenBossa Labs - INdT Manaus - Brazil ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes...
Yes. Sorry those weren't entirely included in the notes. Tim -- http://samoff.com - Original message - On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:44, Tim Samoff sam...@gmail.com wrote: Using /opt: Why, How For How Long? The conclusions, and actions, as I remember them: * We want everything to be optified, if possible. * first-boot-wizard should rm -rf /opt/*. ACTION: mvo to get into a future Maemo Update. * The autobuilder will run maemo-optify after the build, UNLESS a control field says not to (or the package already uses /opt). This WILL create bugs which package maintainers will need to fix. ACTION: mvo to liaise with jeremiah X-Fade * There MUST be a way to generate the same package locally for testing. * The community and Nokia will work together (in maemo-developers) on defining the heuristics and maintaining the scripts. We've already seen a new possible heuristic: don't touch if it's got a Python dependency. Does anyone remember differently? I'm sure there'll be some discussion either way ;-) Present: Marius Vollmer (mvo), Marius Gedminas (mgedmin), Tim Samoff (timsamoff), Andrew Flegg (jaffa), Tim Teulings (framstag), Carsten Munk (stskeeps), Graham Cobb (gcobb) + 3 people who came in later (apologies if I've forgotten anyone) Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes...
Hello! * The autobuilder will run maemo-optify after the build, UNLESS a control field says not to (or the package already uses /opt). This WILL create bugs which package maintainers will need to fix. ACTION: mvo to liaise with jeremiah X-Fade Since there currently seem to be problems with maemo-optify we later in the discussion decided to make it opt-in for around month(!?) to be able to find bugs in a more controlled environment, then make it opt-out afterwards. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Scratchbox Testing Problem
Hi, I'm pretty much a newb for bot Linux and Maemo. I've installed Maemo 5 Beta 2 SDK and succeeded to the point of non-GUI Hello World. When testing the GUI Hello World with both the flags and libraries set up. This comes out: gcc -Wall -g gtk_helloworld-1.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0` -o gtk_helloworld-1 `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0` /usr/lib/libcairo.so: undefined reference to `__memcpy_...@glibc_2.3.4' /usr/lib/libgio-2.0.so: undefined reference to `inotify_i...@glibc_2.4' /usr/lib/libcairo.so: undefined reference to `__fprintf_...@glibc_2.3.4' /usr/lib/libgio-2.0.so: undefined reference to `inotify_rm_wa...@glibc_2.4' /usr/lib/libcairo.so: undefined reference to `__snprintf_...@glibc_2.3.4' /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to `nft...@glibc_2.3.3' /usr/lib/libgio-2.0.so: undefined reference to `inotify_add_wa...@glibc_2.4' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status Any idea what I did wrong and needs to correct? Thanks I've got the same problem. Not sure how to solve this, but could this be setup related ? TimT. OK.. not sure if the above made to all relevant places..(Mailinglist and forum got mixed up) BUT: A reinstall of the SDK seems to have fixed this for me. HTH. TimT. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Getting package with lower version into extras-testing
Hallo! Thanks Graham, I guess I´ll have to do it that way then. Only I still don´t really understand why. I mean, why is it not ok to just upload a package with a lower version number to extras-devel? I could then promote the stable one into extras-testing and the unstable one could remain in extras-devel. People do updates with the application manager on extras-devel. If there is a package with multiple version in the repository, application manager will only show and allow update to the packages with the highest version number. A repository togetehr with the application manager does not work like a file system. Also if a device has already downloaded a package version with higher number, placing an package with lower version number will not result in an update on the device. So why should one upload a package nobody will ever see or get? Depending on upload and download time different things will happen on the device. However you now clain that extras-devel is a staging repository for extras-testing and extras where you want multiple packages version where different package version go into different target repositories, so above should be allowed. I would say: No. extras-testing is not a target repository it is only a transitional repository where packages should be placed because on wants them to get them into extras. So packages that are placed into extras-testing should be of the kind I think it is bug free, you, too? and not I know it is buggy, just take a look at the future (in fact QA people will take a look at extras-testing and will test sofwtare that is known to be unstable). I would suggest to give next stable version but currenttly still buggy a special new package name like myapp-unstable or myapp6 (where 5 is the current version) (and keep this version in extras-devel). This was already suggested and sound much cleaner. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes...
Hello! Just a side note, since it was multiple times mentioned in the BOF that Bounce Evolution is already optified. On my device deinstalling Bounce freed around 50 MB on /. For me this is a strong hint that Bounce is either not optified or that installing it on the device did not what was expected to happen. Hmm, `du -h' says /opt/bounce takes up 21.7M on my N900. Maemo version: 1.2009-41.10 Bounce version: 1.0.0 There's nothing but icons, .service and .desktop files installed outside of /opt according to /var/lib/dpkg/info/bounce.list. Right. Reinstalling the application did not reproduce the effect. My / however was closed to ful, the number of applications installed did not match the fullness of 7 and deinstalling bounce did increase the space by 50MB. Also I sure that there is no other single application I could have deinstalled to get that much free space (and I have not installed and einstalled that much applications anyway). Strange, very strange... OK, I correct my self until someone else with full / and bounce installed can reproduce it (and makes further analysis before deinstallation ;-)). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes...
Hey, Sorry about the bad formatting here. If anyone wants the original notes (with formatting) let me know. Tim -- http://samoff.com - Original message - Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:44:06 +0200 From: Tim Samoff sam...@gmail.com Subject: Maemo Summit /opt BOF notes... To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Message-ID: 1255261446.3548.6.ca...@nokia-n900-41-10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Using /opt: Why, How For How Long? What are the issues? ? Standards. ? What about introducing a new 'mobile' Linux standard. ? Repackaging. ? Differences in flash performance. How to use /opt correctly: ? Every Linux system has /opt, and using it has been a long-time debate. ? Directly from upstream. ? /opt must be made seamless for developers. ? How to deal with hard-coded paths? ? Is /opt a temporary fix? ? Are there any other long-term solutions? ? What is Nokia's choice? ? What about using fast flash for swap and apps on slow? ? Some packages should not get better flash. ? Whatever the solution, using it should not be decided by the developer. How to get space for your package: ? /opt should be a short-term solution. ? Issues ? /opt survives reflash (same with /home). ? Heuristic is heuristic. ? Symlinks are necessary. ? Ideas ? Magic should be on the device. ? Magic should not be contained in Debian rules. ? Call Magic in build-bot after Debian rules. ? Optionally. ? First option, but later opt_out. ? Must introduce efficient maintenance of the Magic. ? Call Magic in dpkg for build package? ? Call Magic in maemo-build package? ? Profiling. ? Next SSU must clean entire /opt directory. ? Fix dpkg, if needed. ? Hook for Magic from Extras? ? Idea might not be entirely embraced by some people at Nokia. ? Clear documentation is necessary. ? On maemo.org wiki? Tim -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Packaging help
Hallo! You need two packages with different control file, one for diablo and one for fremantle. You can use any (generation) tool to simplify this task, but on upload the packages must have different control files containing different dependencies. AFAIK You cannot upload the same package to diablo and fremantle autobuilder and fix the control file on the server depending on the results of the configure call. If you want to offer packages for diablo and fremantle to might thus increase your packaging efforts. Offering mutiple packages I howevr do unsteeed your wish to be able to do such thing :-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Considering /opt and MyDocs in your packages
Hello! Other thoughts included: * Use of /opt is perhaps now a QA requirement for Extras * Can we somehow add a /opt check into minimae/maemian? Is it possible, and is it sensible? Please recall that maemo5 is not the only maemo. Maemo4 is the latest availble for N800/N810 and maemo2 is the latest officailly available on 770. Many packages can compile from same source for all versions. Don't add artificial obstacles to force developers to make their packages incompatible with older versions. I also would like to request a solution that does not make packages differ from diablo or Mer. Up to now I was able to have the same packages for all OS versions. A solution that requires me to have different packages for Fremantle and the rest, where the differences are purly textual exchanges of /usr with /opt (which can possible be automated as shown by maemo-optify-deb) creates additional efforts for me (and likely other people packaging software). While the reasons for this are well argumented and need not to be discussed they have their origin in a technical defiency than in a planed architectual or design change and thus possibly should be handled by the package. I would kindly request a solution that: * Either changes packages automatically by the autobuilder. A functionality that seems in principle available. I have no problem with explicitely activating this feature from within the package if the trigger is for example an additional marker file that is ignored by earlier versions (and can be evaluated by Mer any time). * If a simple trigger (Use /opt!) is not sufficient because the underlying algorithm is not good enough I also have no problem with an additional file that states (sub)directories that do not need to be placed under /usr and then can be switched in the package scripts by maemo-optify. Currently I place data like icons, images etc... under /usr/share/... using configures $(pkgdatadir) to hand over a compile time define to the application do be used as search path for application data. With he requested move of application (and/or application data), will such a define still work? Will maemo-optify exchange the call to configure to explicitely set the non-default position of the package data dir to /opt/something...? Will it exchange configure --prefix=/usr with configure --prefix=/opt or something like configure --prefix=/usr --datadir=/opt (not sure if this is --datadir or --datarootdir...? Currently it does use links to fix this (so it should work without patching rules), but it looks like using links is under discussion, too :-/ If not, we are to different packaging anyway I fear... -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Submenues in Fremantle
Till, Have you tried to create new Sub Views for each of the submenu items? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Proof-read_Human_Interface_Guidelines/View_Menu Tim maemo-developers-requ...@maemo.org wrote: Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:58:14 +0200 From: Till Harbaum / Listsli...@harbaum.org Subject: Submenues in Fremantle To:maemo-developers@maemo.org Message-ID:200907042058.14691.li...@harbaum.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, i am just changing my apps to use the HildonAppMenu under Fremantle. These apps (gpxview and osm2go) use submenus, so i either reduce the number of menues entries or find a replacement for submenues. While i was pretty successful doing the first i still need a submenu here and there. I found this example: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/tutorial/html/ch10.html using seperate windows for this. I have two problems with this (the current version of gpxview in extras-devel is doing it this way): 1) Consistency: Why is nokia telling us that clicking outside a dialog is a natural way of closing it if at the same time they introduce an explicit close button for submenues this way (you need to click the back arrow in the upper right corner to close such a submenu)? 2) They look ugly I tried to use a seperate hildonappmenu via hildon_app_menu_popup, but wasn't successful (just nothing pops up). So my question: Is there a nice and consistent solution for submenues in fremantle? Till -- -- http://tim.samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Submenues in Fremantle
Hi Till, There aren't separate tutorials/guides really. There are some specific tutorials and the Hildon Human Interface Guide (http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hig/html/). I linked you to a wiki page where we're attempting to proofread/rewrite the HIG so that it's easier to read and follow. - Is there are trick to add seperators or the like to a HildonAppMenu? I'm not sure if there's a code-based way to add a horizontal rule (someone here should know), but it shouldn't be too difficult to add a graphical element (e.g., a one-pixel line) as a separator. Anyway, hopefully someone will answer that question for you. - Can i add a title? I'd like if the submenues are somehow titled like the main menu entries they were reached from. Again, I can't tell you how to add title, but I can tell you how they should act and what they should look like: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Proof-read_Human_Interface_Guidelines/Windows/Properties_of_Windows Tim Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: Hi, i already tried this and it looks much better than the extra windows. Why are there different tutorials/style guides for this? There are just one or two things i'd like: - Is there are trick to add seperators or the like to a HildonAppMenu? - Can i add a title? I'd like if the submenues are somehow titled like the main menu entries they were reached from. Till Am Sonntag 05 Juli 2009 schrieb Tim: Till, Have you tried to create new Sub Views for each of the submenu items? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Proof-read_Human_Interface_Guidelines/View_Menu Tim maemo-developers-requ...@maemo.org wrote: Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:58:14 +0200 From: Till Harbaum / Listsli...@harbaum.org Subject: Submenues in Fremantle To:maemo-developers@maemo.org Message-ID:200907042058.14691.li...@harbaum.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, i am just changing my apps to use the HildonAppMenu under Fremantle. These apps (gpxview and osm2go) use submenus, so i either reduce the number of menues entries or find a replacement for submenues. While i was pretty successful doing the first i still need a submenu here and there. I found this example: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/tutorial/html/ch10.html using seperate windows for this. I have two problems with this (the current version of gpxview in extras-devel is doing it this way): 1) Consistency: Why is nokia telling us that clicking outside a dialog is a natural way of closing it if at the same time they introduce an explicit close button for submenues this way (you need to click the back arrow in the upper right corner to close such a submenu)? 2) They look ugly I tried to use a seperate hildonappmenu via hildon_app_menu_popup, but wasn't successful (just nothing pops up). So my question: Is there a nice and consistent solution for submenues in fremantle? Till -- -- http://tim.samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Problems with the fremantle autobuilder...
Hello! I suppose that if a package is rejected, we can upload it with the same version number ? Requiring to increment the version on each failed/rejected upload would seem strange IMHO :) Why would you want to upload a package with the same version number? Incrementing the version number is the purpose of the version number, so of course you would want to change the version number every time there is a new package. You should be able to use the same version again and again as long as the autobuild does not let the package pass. Why increment the version number for building atempts nobody will ever see. The check in (to speak in version control speach) occures if the autobuilder let the package pass. So I can upload badthing-0.1 as often as I like up to the point autobuild builds, for my next update I must use a higher version number (I cannot replace packages using the same version and smaller versioned packages will enevr been seen by anybody). This was the original question and AFAIK this is the way it is and should be implemented. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Problems with the fremantle autobuilder...
Hello! unfair to users if the version is not changed. So if I understand you correctly, you are saying a failure to build is not reason enough to change the version number, with which I agree. But if you change the Right. Fine :-) code somehow, or change the packaging, so that it can build, then perhaps change the version number? For what purpose? Nobody but me and the autobuilder might know what I have changed (and somthing I must have changed else it would not pass this time). Isn't that just versionities? Once package P version X has been successfully built then a subsequent attempt to upload package P version X should be rejected. Exactly - this is the current behavior. and coming back to the original question... If there is already version 1.0 in the repository I cannot upload version 0.9 either, because it would build but nobody who see it by default (tools would always take the highest version available). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Unique serial number accessible programmatically on device?
Hi all, I'm developing on an N810 and it would be useful to be able to get access to the device's serial number programmatically (or failing that some other unique number like the Bluetooth MAC). Can any point me in the right direction? Is it available in /sys/devices somewhere? Seems like a maze to me! Thanks, Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Python and ZSI on maemo
Hi there, I am trying to write a python script for the N810 which polls a directory for files being written by another process and makes web service calls, one per file, before deleting the file. I am having troubles with getting ZSI into the scratchbox. There seems to be a dependency on distutils. I have managed to install and test ZSI on just straight Ubuntu fine. Any tips? Anyone have experience with this? I'm new to maemo and python so any help appreciated! Thanks, Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
SOAP Web Services
Hi all, Is anyone able to tell me the best way to call a SOAP web service from an app developed on Maemo? Thanks in advance, Tim Allen ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: SOAP Web Services
Hi Daniel, Thanks a lot for the reply. It will most probably just be written in C, but we'd consider Python if the advantages were really there. Do you think Python is quick to learn and how do you think it compares for making a simple GTK app? It is going to be an application that could be used by truck drivers to declare the mass they have on board their vehicle. This would be notified to the back end via a web service call. In time they will also be able to declare their rest breaks, etc, using the app. Directly creating the SOAP envelope and parsing the reply doesn't sound like much fun - do you think it would take a lot of time to get right? What's ZSI? Cheers, Tim. -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of daniel wilms Sent: Monday, 20 April 2009 3:42 PM To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: SOAP Web Services hi, I don't know, how you've created your app, but you could do it with Python. There is a project, which does the parsing for you [1] and which helps u setting up the client with the help of the WSDL file. But it depends on what you want to do. If you only have one specific service, ZSI is a bit too much I guess. You could directly create the SOAP envelope and send it with urllib2 or httplib and then parse the response with python-xml. if this does not help, give a few more details about your app ;) [1] http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/ daniel ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: maemo 4.1 GTK button
Hallo!
I am trying to using a button only with image from stock, but i cannot
success, the button only show text like Preferences instead of showing
image. Does anyone knows how to get button with only image?
This feature (showing button image besides textual label) is by default
switched off under the maemo version of Gtk. This likely has been done
for space reasons.
This means that something like:
bool GetSettingsBoolValue(const char* name)
{
GValue gvalue;
GtkSettings *settings;
settings=gtk_settings_get_default();
assert(settings!=NULL);
memset(gvalue,0,sizeof(GValue));
g_value_init(gvalue,G_TYPE_BOOLEAN);
g_object_get_property(G_OBJECT(settings),name,gvalue);
return g_value_get_boolean(gvalue);
}
returns false for gtk-button-images.
--
Gruß...
Tim
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Re: I can't get the autobuilder to work - Please HELP
Hello! I an trying to submit my application to extras and am running it through the autobuilder. I get the error: You need to define build-depends in your control file. You curently do not have any and the errors suggest that you at least need a dependency on lib-gtk2.0-dev. Build-depends define which packages will be installed befor your packages gets compiled. By default only a small set of essential packages will be available in the build environment. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Fwd: Programmer II at Frontier Communications
This was posted on the Debian list, but I thought I'd post it here as well. Tim --- http://tim.samoff.com Original Message Subject: Programmer II at Frontier Communications Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:35:16 -0500 From: John Morrissey j...@horde.net To: debian-j...@lists.debian.org Frontier Communications is seeking a talented programmer to join its System Services team. You'll be: -- - Developing and modifying software to support Internet services (e-mail, web sites, account/product provisioning, etc.) and the machines and infrastructure that deliver them. - Working with other groups and outside vendors to develop and implement software and support new product launches. - Evaluating and modifying Open Source software. This includes helping to decide which Open Source software to use for new projects, tracking upstream project development, source-level troubleshooting, and patch writing/submission to upstream projects. - Writing documentation covering processes, design decisions, and programming standards. - Mentoring and teaching your co-workers, and vice versa. - Performing light to moderate systems administration (mostly basic operating system maintenance, such as new installations and updates). You should have: - Working knowledge of at least two of: PHP, Python, Unix shell, C, and Perl. - A background using, developing, and adapting Open Source software. - Great communication skills, both oral and written. You can target both technical and non-technical audiences. You successfully persuade others with your thoughtful, well researched arguments. You tell your teammates and manager in advance about possible issues or needs. - A strong attention to detail and ability to work in a fast-paced team. - Working knowledge of (X)HTML, CSS, JavaScript and other web-related languages and standards. - Experience with automated testing frameworks and a desire to apply them as much as possible. - Working knowledge of Linux distributions such as Debian, Ubuntu, and Red Hat. The majority of our machines run Debian or Ubuntu. - The ability to keep a cool head and rapidly troubleshoot problems, both proactively and in crisis situations. It would be great if you: - - Can perform moderately involved MySQL database administration. - Know about major Internet protocols, such as DNS, LDAP, SMTP, POP3, IMAP, HTTP/HTTPS, RADIUS. - Have experience in an Internet Service Provider (ISP) environment. Frontier offers: - 401(k) matching, bonus/profit sharing, health and vision benefits. - Four weeks' annual paid time off that accrues from date of hire. - Tuition reimbursement. - Group discounts on wireless service, vehicles, computers, etc. Publicly available blogs and/or past work are definite pluses. Ideally, you would work in one of our major locations: Rochester, NY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester,_New_York), Elk Grove, CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove,_California), or Wilkes-Barre, PA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkes-Barre), but telecommuting may be an option for exceptionally strong US-based candidates. To apply, submit a cover letter and resume (both in plain text, please): http://hostedjobs.openhire.com/epostings/submit.cfm?fuseaction=app.dspjobjobid=295878company_id=15798jobboardid=550 -- John Morrissey _o/\ __o j...@horde.net_- \_ / \ \, www.horde.net/__(_)/_(_)/\___(_) /_(_)__ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-jobs-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- Frontier Communications is seeking a talented programmer to join its System Services team. You'll be: -- - Developing and modifying software to support Internet services (e-mail, web sites, account/product provisioning, etc.) and the machines and infrastructure that deliver them. - Working with other groups and outside vendors to develop and implement software and support new product launches. - Evaluating and modifying Open Source software. This includes helping to decide which Open Source software to use for new projects, tracking upstream project development, source-level troubleshooting, and patch writing/submission to upstream projects. - Writing documentation covering processes, design decisions, and programming standards. - Mentoring and teaching your co-workers, and vice versa. - Performing light to moderate systems administration (mostly basic operating system maintenance, such as new installations and updates). You should have: - Working knowledge of at least two of: PHP, Python, Unix shell, C, and Perl. - A background using, developing, and adapting Open Source software. - Great communication skills, both oral and written. You can target both technical and non-technical audiences. You successfully persuade
Now Hiring: Maemo Community debmaster
(Cross-spam intentional.) For more details about this exciting new opportunity, please visit the Council blog post: http://maemo.org/community/council/now_hiring-maemo_community_debmaster/[1] If you have any questions, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tim --- http://tim.samoff.com Links: -- [1] http://maemo.org/community/council/now_hiring-maemo_community_debmaster/ [2] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Beyond Application Manager Categories
(For some reason, this keeps failing to get through to the list -- trying again.) I guess I imagine something more like how Mauku functions. Tapping a Category would take you to: *One list for installed and uninstalled apps: any item that's installed becomes grayed-out (or the zebra stripe is a different color), indicating that it is installed; what was the install icon on the right becomes an uninstall icon*Simple, kinetic scrolling list (with zebra striping, as referenced above) *Thumbnail of app on left, title (bold) and info in the center, single-tap download icon on the right *Double-tapping on row opens package contents (e.g., application, plugins, other affiliated files): package contents would act the same as described for (main) installable apps *Tap/hold on any row (main or contents) gives other options (e.g., more info, ratings = real-time star selections, version, package date, keywords, category, info, whatever, etc.) Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Needing help with dead unit.
Quim from nokia was able to figure it out. Apparently I was mis-reading an 8 to be a 6 on the tag. I was able to then use the tablet-dev download site and get my unit reflashed. thanks for the help tim On Wednesday 29 October 2008 11:13:27 pm Marius Gedminas wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:43:11PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 09:00:20AM -0700, Tim Ashman wrote: On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:30:51 am Ryan Abel wrote: Did you go to the correct page for your unit? I did, not only that when I was on the phone with tech support I asked him to check my ID number and he told me it was invalid... But offered no way and I asked how I could straighten this out. he asked me where I purchased it, I offered to send him a jpg of the unit showing the sticker, etc. Nothing not interested in really helping me. The clock issue seems to be known: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14362 Your wrong ID number is really puzzling though. If i remember correctly your ID is the mac address of your tablet network interface (without the :). You can get this value by launching /sbin/ifconfig on a terminal when the wifi network is available. Or /sbin/ifconfig -a even when wifi is down. Or Control Panel - Device - About. But any of those is hard to do when the device won't boot, so the sticker on the box is the only way. Be sure you try to download a n810 firmware with a n810 mac address, or a n800 firmware with a n800 mac address. That is the most likely explanation. If you go to the page for the wrong model, it will reject valid IDs with the invalid ID message. Marius Gedminas ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Needing help with dead unit. - SOLVED
I'd like to thank everyone who tried to help get my n810 reflashed. Quim from nokia was kind enough to let me email him a picture of the back of my unit showing the tag. His reply is here and I'm forever greatful to Quim and his colleague for taking the extra step and helping me out. I have to say this is a perfect example of why I think opensource and community computing if so much better than anything before it. If maemo wasn't here, if the community wasn't here I would not have been helped as quickly and my satisfaction would have been much lower. Macell, a colleague here at the Maemo SW team, was clever enough to find out a possible cause of your problem... I tried this code and with 001D6ED58799 it works for me. The 4th digit from the end looks like an 8 to me, but it is a bit scratched and the reporter might have put there a 6 which is not in the valid range. tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Needing help with dead unit.
Hopefully someone can help me. Nokia's phone support wants me to send the unit in and I'm just not going to do that. Here is my problem. Last night I nuked the ability of my n810 to boot. I came in this morning downloaded the windows flasher utility and proceeded to try and reflash the unit. After the wizard sees my unit I click next and it reports that my computers clock is wrong and that it can't continue because it can't authenicate. Huh, besides the fact that I have no idea why it would care I was stuck. so... I tried the linux manual way. I went to my other computer downloaded the flash command utility and proceeded to the get the image page. I entered in my WLAN ID and the page reports that it is not a valid product. Great. So I called nokia to say I'm sadly disappointed with them is an understatement. Not only did the support rep not understand the problem, he kept asking me to do things on the tablet after several times of me telling him the unit would not reach the home screen and was in an endless loop I asked for his supervisor. After 5 minutes he came on and simply told me I had to send the unit in. So I'm asking if anyone can send me or make available the latest or even any version of the diablo firmware so that I can try and flash my unit manually I would really appriecate it. The real problem appears to be with the windows wizard software and the fact that right now we are in the two week period where the US use to change to daylight savings, but now it is not for two weeks. I've tried setting my clock backwards and forwards, etc to no avail. If someone knows that this is a problem with my actual windows pc, maybe there is some weird patch, I don't know but this forum is my last hope. If nobody here can help I will not be purchasing another nokia device and will take a look at android or one of the netbooks running linux. Please help I like my nokia and sending the unit in when in probably two weeks the problem will fix itself is just stupid. Not to mention that nokia support was completely unwilling to help by sending me the flash image or even entertaining the idea that something might be wrong on their end. Hopeful tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Needing help with dead unit.
On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:30:51 am Ryan Abel wrote: On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Tim Ashman wrote: I tried the linux manual way. I went to my other computer downloaded the flash command utility and proceeded to the get the image page. I entered in my WLAN ID and the page reports that it is not a valid product. Great. Did you go to the correct page for your unit? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair I did, not only that when I was on the phone with tech support I asked him to check my ID number and he told me it was invalid... But offered no way and I asked how I could straighten this out. he asked me where I purchased it, I offered to send him a jpg of the unit showing the sticker, etc. Nothing not interested in really helping me. tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: AppsAmuck...
Hey, ...but maybe a grid could be created combining... Cool. Yeah, that sounds good. I would propose asking the Maemo Community to begin generating a list of apps that they'd like to see (on the wiki?). As you'll see from the AppsAmuck site, an app can be as simple as a Countdown to Midnight clock -- or, it could be a NumptyPhysics level, a game prt, or whatever. Sure, the Countdown clock is sort of dumb -- and very simple -- but that's what a lot of users are looking for. Then, say, in May (hopefully after the SDK release, which is currently March, but I know that can change) we begin the app-a-day process. Why May? read below... It could all be handled on the wiki, linked to the various Garage projects for each app (or one garage project for NumtyPhysics levels or other similar umbrella ideas like Mozilla add-ons, etc.). (Or, should every app be placed into _one_ Garage project called whatever the promotion name is?) Promotion name proposal: Maemo5-for-5 (5 referring to May, blah blah.) :p Tim --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff - Original Message - Subject: Re: AppsAmuck... From: Quim Gil To: Tim CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/14/2008 12:08 am ext Tim wrote: Look what some iPhone developers are doing: http://www.appsamuck.com/ Read the description -- it's short, but intriguing. (There's also a Google project called iappaday doing the same thing.) Two questions: 1. Would Nokia consider sponsioring a promotion like this for the launch of Fremantle? Why not. I wouldn't bet on this model for a new native C application every day ;) but maybe a grid could be created combining Mozilla addons, applets, Python apps, straightforward GTK+/Qt, ports perhaps even some non-code related projects like themes, NumptyPhysics levels, creative concepts... and then even have some chances for that native development from scratch. 2. Would maemo devs be interested in taking part in a promotion like this? Tim -- Quim Gil marketing manager, open source Maemo Software @ Nokia ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
AppsAmuck...
Look what some iPhone developers are doing: http://www.appsamuck.com/[1] Read the description -- it's short, but intriguing. (There's also a Google project called iappaday[2] doing the same thing.) Two questions: *Would Nokia consider sponsioring a promotion like this for the launch of Fremantle? *Would maemo devs be interested in taking part in a promotion like this? Tim --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff Links: -- [1] http://www.appsamuck.com/ [2] http://code.google.com/p/iappaday/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: AppsAmuck...
Maybe, but I'm not so sure... The goal of AppsAmuck is creating simple, functional applications (look at the examples that are there already) that have easy-to-read well-documented code. This is code that almost anyone should be able to open and understand -- and even begin coding off of. T. --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff - Original Message - Subject: Re: AppsAmuck... From: kenneth marken To: Tim Date: 10/13/2008 11:50 am On Monday 13 October 2008 19:06:02 Tim wrote: Look what some iPhone developers are doing: http://www.appsamuck.com/[1] Read the description -- it's short, but intriguing. (There's also a Google project called iappaday[2] doing the same thing.) Two questions: *Would Nokia consider sponsioring a promotion like this for the launch of Fremantle? *Would maemo devs be interested in taking part in a promotion like this? heh, im tempted to say that some people on itt is doing this already, but do not have a fancy webpage to show it off via... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Community Maemo distribution
OS Reloaded ? +1 (Sorry, Ryan.) :p -T. --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff - Original Message - Subject: maemo-developers Digest, Vol 42, Issue 7 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: 10/07/2008 3:00 am -- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:18:19 -0400 From: Ryan Abel Subject: Re: Community Maemo distribution To: Quim Gil Cc: Maemo developers mailing-list Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Oct 6, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Quim Gil wrote: As another shot how about rewind 'Some drops are so popular that the DJ will rewind or reload OS Reloaded ? That sounds too much like The Matrix Reloaded, which churns my stomach just thinking about it. . . . -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Community Maemo distribution
Hi, bazaar.garage.maemo.org (a la The Cathedral and the Bazaar)? Branded as the Community Bazaar [for Maemo]? Not a big fan of bazaar. I'd like Maemo Community Edition, but this may not be acceptable for Nokia. We could just call it Community Edition I like Community Edition better. But, how about Community Edition for Maemo? Tim --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff - Original Message - Subject: maemo-developers Digest, Vol 42, Issue 6 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: 10/06/2008 3:00 am -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 07:00:37 -0400 From: Ryan Abel Subject: Re: Community Maemo distribution To: maemo-developers@maemo.org List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes I'd like to open a Garage project to get an svn in place and start gathering patches for integration. Question is, what should we call it. I'd like Maemo Community Edition, but this may not be acceptable for Nokia. We could just call it Community Edition and sidestep the issue. Any thoughts from the Nokia guys? Any alternative suggestions? -- Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council chair -- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 14:41:30 +0100 From: Andrew Flegg Subject: Re: Community Maemo distribution To: Ryan Abel Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Ryan Abel wrote: I'd like to open a Garage project to get an svn in place and start gathering patches for integration. Question is, what should we call it. I'd like Maemo Community Edition, but this may not be acceptable for Nokia. We could just call it Community Edition and sidestep the issue. Maemo Community Edition wouldn't - at a guess - be acceptable under the trademark guidelines, without a special dispensation. Any thoughts from the Nokia guys? Any alternative suggestions? bazaar.garage.maemo.org (a la The Cathedral and the Bazaar)? Branded as the Community Bazaar [for Maemo]? -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.bleb.org/ maemo.org Community Council member -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Some DBus related questions
Hello! The problem is, that I'm not an Gtk application. So there are IMHO two possibilities: I assume you mean you don't use the Glib main loop. Gtk is not needed for D-Bus communication. Correct. That was inprecise wording * Generate a separate thread that uses a glib main event loop and try to get libosso and libconic to run using this event loop - communication with the rest of my application using thread synchronisations. Would that work? Maybe that would work, but it's certainly a horrible hack. Why? Glib allows to create additional main event loops, libosso explicitely allows to set an event loop. If this is a hack, why this APIs? I think the simplest solution is to use Glib main loop in your program. Otherwise you would need to hack the libraries to work with your non- Glib main loop (which is not impossible, but quite a lot of work). Glib main loop is like the GPL, it contaminates your program :) I don't want to. I'm having my own GUI library, why should I use GlibMain loop? And finally, if I would be writing an QT application, would you force me to use GlibMainLoop, too ;-)? What is the masterplan for future OS versions that will integrate QT better? That does not sound reasonable. There must/should be another way. IMHO the dbus is a perfect platform and language neutral way to communicate between processes, why should I forced to use a wrapper library that restricts me in my choice of tools? Why do not publish the dbus interfaces, and instead write wrapper librarys instead (of course it is OK to have both. I have no problem with having additional efforts If I do not use Gtk). What about testing any of the dbus interfaces under scratchbox. Is there a way? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Some DBus related questions
Hello! A few questions about DBus-based features under maemo. I would like to enhance several applications with the following dbus stuff: * Show list of available networks in WifiInfo using dbus calls (because querying the kernel interface directly seems to interfere with the normal operation). * I would like to get information about current network connectivity and trigger network connectivity on demand. This can be implemented by using libconic. * Later on possibly connect to other services and get other events... The problem is, that I'm not an Gtk application. So there are IMHO two possibilities: * Generate a separate thread that uses a glib main event loop and try to get libosso and libconic to run using this event loop - communication with the rest of my application using thread synchronisations. Would that work? * I already have a dbus event loop running as part of my internal event loop. However this is not glib main-loop based, so I would not be able using libooso, libconic and similar, but have to get the direct dbus calls from their sources (having to adapt code every time the dbus interface changes). So here are the questions: * Does anybody have experience with non-gtk applications and can recommend on of the two ways? * Is there any code for accessing the list of wlan access points via dbus? * How can I develop and test against thus dbus services using scratchbox developemnt environment. Are there fake-services configured that can be started and return enough to test results. * Is LibLocation also DBus based? How can I access GPSD from non-Gtk applications? How can I test accessing the GPS functionality formt eh scratchbox environment. Is there also a fake-service? All information is based on Diablo reference manual. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Autobuilder for OS2006 wanted?
Hello! Are there developers out there who will use the autobuilder for OS2006, if it is available? Do you think it is worth the trouble to set it up? Will it make supporting OS2006 easier for developers? Please let me know what you think. I would like to support my software for all OS version where there are still people requesting packages. For my type of applications this is currently not a software problem. The only thing I'm aware of, is that I have to adapt my packages to the different naming/versions of packages. AFAIK this can be handled by using | in the dependency rules. So as long as I can use one package for distributions I'm in. However I have difficulty to decided myself which OS version this are. There were indivudual requests in the past. Downloading statistics are likely the right way. If you support more OS versions note hover that I would like to have a way to upload a package once for multiple OS versions (I'm currently using the web interface, but AFAIK dput need one call for each OS, too) :-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: WM and bad position and size of non hildon apps.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from 149.239.206.50 [149.239.206.50] with HTTP/1.1 (POST); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:01:55 +0200 User-Agent: PING e.V. Webmail/2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hallo! Hi Marius, Ok, I apologize, but the previously picture wasn't very representative. Please, look this one: http://www.gnuton.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/qt4-on-maemo.jpg This pic shows better the problem. Basically the non hildon windows use the whole area set by WM. I hope to be explained better this time. I aplogize again. Thanks. A number of information that might help you: * The window manager resizes all top level windows to the complete available area (minus top and left bars). Thiswill also be done, if the window sets limits for minimum and/or maximum size. They will be ignored for top level windows (or windows, that are marked as top level). So your application must be prepared that the top level window will be resized. It must draw the complete window independent of the expected or actual size (which is normally realized by allowing all top level window to be resizable). * The top level window frames are not drawn by the window manager but are part fo the Gtk theme of the window content (Full screen windows just don't draw this frames). Just like a button has a frame, the window content itself in this case has one, too.If you want these frames you must read the image data from the Gtk theme and draw them yourself. I have done this for the libIllumination applications. You are right, ob would expect that this is the job of the window manager. -- GruÃ... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Maemo Summit Participant photos...
All, Those in attendance, please post a photo of yourself here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Participant_Photos Tim --- Weblog ~ http://tim.samoff.com Kidblog ~ http://kc.samoff.com Photography ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff Film ~ http://www.youtube.com/timsamoff ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Porting a C program in Maemo
Hallo! Can you start by defining what you want when you say stuff would be shown on the Maemo (2.2) screen? Do you want the text in a dialog box? As a text box? You saw it on the terminal so it got somewhere. printf(%d. Hail to Kernighan and Ritchie \n, i); To clearify: * All standard output like printf or similar (or std:cout in C++) by default will be printed to the terminal this application is started in. So in your case, the user of the Device has to open the xterm first and then start your application. If you would get your application listed in the menues and start it you would not see anything because you do not have a terminal attached. If you want to open your own window (and do not rely on the user opening the xterm window first) and print stuff there there are several options: * Write a wrapper script for your application and make that wrapper script open the window first (you might need to work around the DBus application helth probing). * Write a shell script and use a package like dialog to show text (however I thing dialog is not available on the device). Dialog offers you command line application that create simple dialogs that can be opened from a shell script. * Write a GUI application using a GUI library like GTk or similar. Note that this will be very different to your initial C program but is the prefered way. Besides C you can also use c++ or python, which are also supported - but the principle solutions are the same. You can also use Curses for nifty console output but you wll still have the problem that you require an open terminal first. I would suggest to take a look at the maemo tutorial andthe various Gtk tutorials that give you an introduction to Gtk programming. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: maemo.org/downloads automatic updates from Extras
Hello! Personally, I'd rather downloads.maemo.org used one fixed system and it was up to tools like mud to pull out heuristically derived data from upstream and coalesce it into the simple format. This is only an option. If you ask me I would drop the magic and enforce the usage of one solutions. However many other formats with same or similar content are possible... Indeed. TBH, I wonder whether another header would be sufficient in debian/control? We've already got XB-Maemo-Icon, adding XBS-Version-Changes or something could be sufficient. Is there any need for anything other than the last modification? I proposed a concept holding history because the original changelog files have history, too. Of course you are right, for just showing the latest changes a header is simpler and sufficient. However the solution is in consequence not (easily) extendable and possibly useful only for this exact purpose (which is not bad per se). So: is there any reason to have the history as part of the package, for example do we plan to be able to browse through the history on the web page? Why does debian keep history? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: maemo.org/downloads automatic updates from Extras
Hallo! One enhancement I would like to add is automatically update the 'Changes in latest version' field for the entry in downloads. I would like comments That would be nice :-) from the community on how developers should supply this information. One option would be to fetch it from the changelog. Problems here are that there aren't many packages using a changelog at the moment and we would need to filter out the real changes from the packaging revision updates. The debian package changelog describes changed to the package made by the package maintainer. If maintainer and developer are different a changelog entry for a major relase could just contain New upstream version - which would not be that helpful :-/ Also normally new package revisions would generate an entry in the changelog, however the package would have no visible change - it would just fix bugs in the packaging or in the software (which however could be relevant for some users!): Another option would be to use the ChangeLog of the original source package - this would contain upstream documentation to changes in the original software. You would expect to find new features there. However upstream information might contain information of varying detail. I have seen packages that list a huge number of even internal changes - mor elike a developer blog. So this source may also not be of best quality, too. Another problem is that the ChangeLog is owned by upstream, the maintainer can/should not change it. It amy also not be scanable because of varying syntax. In the ideal world however I would always show the contains of ChangeLog for the current upstream release and I would show changelog of the package for package revisions 1. So we can try it with these files and either put preasure on upstream or let the package maintainer fix/create these files or we can define a special maemo-specific file Maemo.ChangeLog that contains both information in a simple to parse, extendable file format (XML?). And to make everybody happy we try a fallback for ChangeLog and changelog if Maemo.Changelog does not exist - with improving magic over time. Simple XML file could look like: maemo-release-changelog revision release-date=2008-07-07 23:05:00 revision=package revision description Packages new upstream version. /description /revision release release-date=2008-07-01 11:55:00 version=source package version description Now plays funny sound on start. /description /release /maemo-release-changelog However many other formats with same or similar content are possible... Another option would be to let the developer enter this data while promoting the package to extras. We could add this step to the promotion interface. IMHO a bad idea. I personally want to have the process as automatic as possible (OK testing is still manual :-/). This way I can choose time and place and tool and process and I'm not forced to use the web page (must switch to dput soon :-)). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras-build diablo failed to compile Xournal
Hello! But when it tries to actually build the package I get this errors: main.c:7:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory main.c:8:43: libgnomecanvas/libgnomecanvas.h: No such file or directory main.c:10:21: libosso.h: No such file or directory main.c:14:32: hildon/hildon-note.h: No such file or directory You need to add additional build-depends for your packages for libgtk2.0-dev and likely other packages (note, that the package configure script does not check for the availability of gtk, otherwiese the problem would have been more obvious). You can see fromt he root log that the packgaes is not yet installed (only the packages containing the libraries but not the package containing the development files). (and of course a bunch of other caused by these). How can it not even find libosso.h, for example ? Find the packages containing libosso.h with dpkg -S (use full path), and add this packgae to your build-depends, too. Of course it compiles just fine in my scratchbox environment. The autobuilder installs only the packages you ecplicitely name as build-depends. Your envrionment has all packages available from the start. Am I doing something wrong or not doing something I should, instead, do ? You are missing build-depends! -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: More autobuilder problems (armel only)
Hello! Ed/Niels/anyone, any ideas? The armel package builds perfectly well in my own Scratchbox, just not with the auto-builder. Thanks in advance, I wanted to take a look at the complete build logs in the extras-caldron mailinglist archive but the chinook browser cannot show the overview page. What is that? Is this a known bug? -- Gruß... Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: More autobuilder problems (armel only)
Hello! If you wanted to look at the vim ones, I wouldn't recommend it on the tablet. Apart from the problem I'm having, something else went wrong with the build and the log's 28MB (it took over 12 hours) beeing away from home that was exactly what I tried. I already failed looking at the log. This seems to be a good real life test to create some new bugs :-) I'm /fairly/ certain it's not related: an earlier build also failed, without generating a 28MB summary. Not beeing able to look at the source I have to guess. Do you pass anything besides --prefix to the configure script. Normally you should need to pass anything besides enabling or disabling optional features. -- Gruß... Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Diablo-extras repository access?
Hello! o.k. I got past the libgpsbt-dev issue. Now libagg-dev is giving me problems. Autobuilder fails on it. Looking at the logs, it compiles successfully on autobuilder but the package build fails. (see fail log below... install -m644 ./src/platform/X11/.libs/libaggplatformX11.a \ /home/builder2/maemo-diablo-armel-extras-devel/work/agg-2.5+dfsg1/debian/li bagg-dev/usr/lib/libaggplatformX11_pic.a install: cannot stat `./src/platform/X11/.libs/libaggplatformX11.a': No such file or directory Hm normally for debian packages you call your configure scriptg with --prefix=/usr. Then you normally build and then install by calling make install with setting DIST to some temorary diretory below the debian diretory. From there you then build the package content. In your case you directly build package contentg from your souce directory. I dcon't know if this wrong but at least not the normal way to go. Nevertheless you either have passed the wrong path (but earlierf install calls worked) or the library you was not build. Check make log and configure call. -- Gruß... Tim. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: More autobuilder problems (armel only)
Hello!
./configure --host=arm-linux-gnueabi --build=arm-linux-gnueabi
--prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man
--infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS=-Wall -g -O2
LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,defs --disable-darwin --disable-xsmp
--disable-netbeans --enable-gui=no --disable-gtktest --disable-gpm
--disable-acl --disable-nls
I did pass through some extra ones (either disable-darwin et al),
however the --host and --build were added automatically.
I'll try resubmitting and see what size the log is then :-)
I would try to drop the --host and --build parameters to the configure
script. One would have to look at the config.log the exactly see what
happens and why this results int he C compiler not working anymore. These
line are relevant for the debian packages to support cross-compiling
(directly pass the target system) but in the maemo autobuilder environment
they possibly do harm (perhaps the configure script assumes special names
for the compile, which does not exists. config.log would tell us).
My packages work without them. The configure script then tries to detect the
platform itself and was right in its guess :-)
It would however be interesting to hear from the autobuilder people how we
should cope with such debian specifica?
--
Gruß...
Tim.
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Re: Diablo extras repository proposal
Hello! This is all good, but I don't think it makes sense to do in now. The main problem with extras for now are the maintainers' attitude. There were a lot of discussions about extras previously on this list and no real actions were done by community. I don't think it is fair to blame the developers without looking for reasons. I'm sure there are reasons for the current situation (some already responded to your mail). The situation needs discussion but not simple blaming. Situation is frustrating but worse could happen. After we accomplished Misha's plan[1] several months ago[2] we had no feedback and almost nobody used autobuilder and promoter. I can speak for others but I personally tried to find a solution between improving existing and developing new software, switching the employer (plus working overtime), moving to a new home, buying a new car and other stuff. I'm not payed for developing open source software so other things have priority. With this attitude I don't think it's feasible to go further and develop additional features which will not be used again. Instead we should probably concentrate on encouraging maintainers to actually use the tools and to give feedback. From this point of view Niels proposal is more than enough for now. So back to the possible reasons for the situation (I cannot speak for others, so other developer please add or correct!): * Nokia did not give a long term release date but expects developer to just be prepared. I can understand why Nokia does not give long term release date (the reasons are obvious) but as a result it must ramp up such stuff far ealier (should have made advertisment and plans for strategie for diablo much earlier) to get a result in time. Perhaps annoucement was made but at least me was still suprized by some aspects. Assume that every (re)action of an open-source developer may take 2-4 weeks, even if a task of 2 hours is to be completed. * Nokia must realize that the current autobuilder and extra repository infrastructure possibly still give no real gain for me and possibly others. As long as I can add *.install files to my own repository in the downloads section having an own repository is simpler than using the autobuilder. The current infrastructure: + Is slow (autobuilder needs *much* longer than my local computer) and currently even seems to be overloaded. + There seem to be smaller bugs, making some builds fail for no reason + Needs more initial setup to be usable + Cannot handle dependencies, neither does it seem to compile packages in queueing order (so having one library and multiple depending applications I cannot upload and forget). + I cannot push packages for multiple OS versions on the same time via the web interface (will take a look at dput) + Does not build packages for older distributions, so I still have to compile packages for older OS version myself, having twice the effort. + Does not support other niftly stuff like lint etc... + Integration with downloads could be much better + extras is more a mess than an really atractive place to be for my packages ;-) Quality was requested but control and enforcement seems to be weak. + Suggestions for improvements will not be rejected but the reaction suggests that things will take a long time (and suggests that I can slow done pace, too, which is definitely the wrong signal ;-)). The current situation is the direct result of this and for me personally no suprise (in fact in the last big discussion I participated I even hinted that this will happen). However I don't think that keeping things the way they are or at least slowing down the development of this the totally wrong way (under given goals). This is the totally wrong signal and will kill extras repository. Instead a way to accelerate the development and invest in improvement must be found. It looks like Nokia is waiting for the community to jump in, but possibly critical mass is not yet reached for this. Or why we discuss 2010 agenda? How? If the community cannot help or does not want to help (because hacking software is cooler than improving infrastructure?) Nokia possibly must either help, extpectations must be lowered, or another strategy must be found. For me it looks like we are still no team. Another question: How could the proposed community board could help in such situation? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Rebuild all chinook source packages on autobuilder
Hallo! So if your package is failing due to missing dependencies, how does one map the package check to Build-Depends? I'm sure this is a basic question, I've googled but not found a definitive answer. The links referenced in this thread are very general. For example PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GTK, gtk+-2.0) needs libgtk2.0-dev PKG_CHECK_MODULES(CONIC, conic) needs libconic0-dev What establishes the mapping? Specifically, I'm missing the Build-Depends for hildon-help. I do not understand the question completely but perhaps my answer helps you anyway. If your application configure script requires some external dependency like in your example gtk+-2.0, this dependency is fullfill fromt eh view of your application by finding the corresponding *.pc file as defined by pkg-config. This *.pc file is normally part of some *-dev package which in turn means that your configure scripts expects that this *-dev package is available (and properly installed and configured). So to make that package viewable for configure script at build time you must mention the exact package that own and contains this *.pc file (AFAIK dpkg- S is your friend here) in your build-dependencies because the build dependencies names the packages that should be installed before your package is build. The autobuilder starts with a clean envrionment and will only install the packages you name. The *.pc file in turn contains the information what additinal include paths and libraries you need to build against the given package. It is a ASCII file. Just take a look. PKG_CHECK_MODULES is of course only one way to detect if a library is available. There are others - however the all expect the corresponding *-dev package to be installed. Does this help you? Any aditional questions? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Rebuild all chinook source packages on autobuilder
Hello! I failed to mention that I found the .pc files but then didn't get the link back to the package. So if I'm understanding you, find the .pc file, do a dpkg -S on that pc file, take the name of the package, add a '-dev' to the end of it The *.pc can normally be found under /usr/lib/pkgconfig, so... dpkg -S /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gtk+-2.0.pc libgtk2.0-dev: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gtk+-2.0.pc and put that in the Build-Depends line? I'm not near my scratchbox to try this but I will this evening. The *.pc files are part of the content of a *-.dev package. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: developing xkb mappings
Excellent! Thank you! On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 6:38 AM, Frantisek Dufka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frantisek Dufka wrote: xev is (or was?) in package x-debug-tools in maemo repository (chinook, bora, ...) However it is not mentioned here http://maemo.org/development/tools/ Correction, it is hidden under 'x-debug-tools' with link to separate page http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/x-debug-tools Package is available in SDK repository http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/x/x-debug-tools/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: jffs2 on mmc?
I heard that the jffs2 had support for sdcards (I'm assuming that means it doesn't do wear-leveling and leaves it to the microcontroller), but that it still checks every bit on the card before loading the OS. However, I like the idea that JFFS2 has journaling which ext2 does not and probably does it in a way that's not requiring too many extra writes (like ext3). Maybe I'll try it with a reasonably sized partition and hope it doesn't take too long to boot. On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Tim Tisdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard that the jffs2 had support for sdcards (I'm assuming that means it doesn't do wear-leveling and leaves it to the microcontroller), but that it still checks every bit on the card before loading the OS. However, I like the idea that JFFS2 has journaling which ext2 does not and probably does it in a way that's not requiring too many extra writes (like ext3). Maybe I'll try it with a reasonably sized partition and hope it doesn't take too long to boot. On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Ryan Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been looking into booting from the sdcard and was wondering why none of the how to's suggest formatting the card with jffs2. There's lots of debate between using ext2 or ext3, but nothing on using jffs2. Is there a simple reason for this I'm missing? JFFS2 is designed to be used on a raw flash device. SD cards have a controller inside that hides the access to the raw flash and deals with things like write levelling, that JFFS2 would otherwise have to do in software. Yes, as Ed says, jffs2 would serve no purpose for an SD card. Besides, can you imagine how long it would take to process a 16GB card into memory every mount? :shudder: ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
developing xkb mappings
Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm completely new to some of this stuff... I recently got an iGo Stowaway keyboard and wanted to type with it in Dvorak on my N800. I managed to hack together some changes to the xkb files so I can select English (dvorak) from the list of keyboard layouts, but I was hoping to refine the symbol mapping more to use some of the extra keys available. I need to be able to read the scancodes sent by the keyboard, but I haven't been able to figure out a way to do that yet in Maemo. Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? -Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo Application Package help
Hello! But I am not able to add these images to the deb package and because of that when i am installing the application on device , the images are not appearing. See http://illumination.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/illumination/trunk/PushIt/ and especially http://illumination.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/illumination/trunk/PushIt/Makefile.am?revision=1577view=markup how to install images into the package using autoconf tools. In this case the make file itself gets the information that these images are part of the packaging, so that a make install in the debian rules file (http://illumination.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/illumination/trunk/PushIt/packaging/maemo/rules?revision=1595view=markup) will install a the right place. Using something like PushIt_CXXFLAGS=-I. $(ILLUMINATION_CFLAGS) -DAPP_DATADIR=\$(pkgdatadir)\ in your Makefile.am you can pass the top level pkg data directory to the application (see http://illumination.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/illumination/trunk/PushIt/src/Makefile.am?revision=1577view=markup). Hope this helps. The debian rules files also shows how to install application icons. For this also take a look at the postinst file: http://illumination.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/illumination/trunk/PushIt/packaging/maemo/pushit.postinst?revision=1595view=markup -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: new developer, dpkg-reconfigure missing?
Hello! I haven't found any help googling around, other than that dpkg-reconfigure looks like it should definitely be included in the scratchbox installation. I had similar effect after installing OS 2006 and 2008 Beta SDKs over my OS 2007 SDK in the same scratchbox instance. Dropping the SDK installations and reinstalling of the SDK made the problem disapear. A simpler fix may have been possible but I had no indeep scratchbox knowledge for this. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras: autobuilders
Hello! I have collected (and reformulated a little bit) all suggestions up to now in the Wiki at: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/extrasrepositoryprocessdefinition/ I have divided the suggestions in to three groups: autobuilder, autotester and autostager (note that even with only one or two repositories the autostager can decide about in or out) to keep the overview. Please check the page and assure that your suggestions are collected and correctly formulated (everybody can change!). If we collect more suggestions a separate page may be appropriate. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras: autobuilders
Hello! Levi Bard wrote: [1] Is OS2007 support still useful? There are really only two platforms: OS 2006 for 770 owners, and OS 2008 for N800/N810 owners. Maintaining OS 2007 support could be a pain for application authors. I would say that the two relevant platforms are OS2007 for 770 owners and OS2008 for N8[01]0 owners. I definitely have users of my applications that still have an 770 running OS 2006 (however I cannot give any percentage). -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras: autobuilders
Hello! libraries until the APIs are more stable. This means that there are cases where a dependency is updated where all the dependent packages need to be rebuilt. Of course, this does not only apply in cases where library versioning is not in use. Even in cases where libraries are correctly versioned there may be some benefit (e.g. a performance benefit) in rebuilding a dependent application. I'm also the developer of an alpha-version library. I would suggest in this case to add for example the exact date as package version (e.g. 0.1.20071110) and make all dependent packages dependent on exactly this version. I know that all dependent packages then need an upload (with an incremented package revision at least) with this new dependency to get build again, but IMHO there is no way around. -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras: autobuilders
Hello! 6) If it doesn't already exist, an entry in the Application Catalog is automatically created, including .install file(s) for all supported OSs. The relevant information must be available in the source/binary package. Also I'm not sure if thats worth the effort (or at least this does not have highest priority). At least I would not put screen shots into my package to get the application catalog entry build automatically ;-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras: autobuilders
Hello! What about the myriad libraries that will be added to build all the random apps we want? Would each of these need a Garage page or could they all be grouped under the same page? I imagine most of these will be simple modifications (if they even need that) of existing debian packages and therefore a Garage project is probably overkill, a maintainer's email address ought to be enough. Good point. I take back my statement for now, then. (I quite liked the idea of the auto-builder reporting build problems through a garage bug tracker, though.) That was my question in another thread. How do I manage my garage project(s), if I have more than one but all closed bound together. I think we should allow to have multiple packages for the same project (thing of localization packages, too) and belonging to the same garage page. I also would find it useful to make tickets int he bug tracking system of that project page if building fails (error text then of course should clearly identify the package). This way we have some feedback if the problems was solved (ticket closed). This way we could also see if the maintainer has given up getting the package to run. We could also resume rebuild of the package after ticket was closed saving build resources. We should discuss if is *required* to have a garage package for pushing packages to the autobuilder. This way we have bug tracking, a more direct contact (even for teams)and (the potential for) a far more integrated and simpler system. And there is no real problem in creating a garage page only for packaging, isn't it? -- Gruß... Tim ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
