Re: Removing mp-fremantle-generic-pr
ext Paul Hartman paul.hartman+ma...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Leandro sullo spippolino lnofe...@cybervalley.org wrote: Ciao a tutti, now my apt seems to work fine but doing a aptitude dist-upgrade it want's to remove the package in subject mp-fremantle-generic-pr as I can understand it is to get updates from Nokia so it is possible/preferable to remove it? There won't be any more new updates from Nokia, so I don't think it really matters. The mp-fremantle-generic-pr is also meant to keep your OS configuration together: As long as it is installed, you have all the packages that are supposed to be installed. If you remove it, you might more easily turn your device into mush by accidentally removing some really important packages by later on. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: apt-get .. segmentation fault ..
ext Paul Hartman paul.hartman+ma...@gmail.com writes: Try to delete these files (make a backup of them first): /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin /var/cache/apt/srcpkgcache.bin A backup is not needed; these files are pure caches and do not contain anything that couldn't be recreated by apt-get. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Weird dependency-problem...
ext Klaus Umbach klaus-ma...@uxix.de writes: The following packages have unmet dependencies: upstart: PreDepends: sysvinit-utils (= 2.86.ds1-23) or busybox (= 3:1.6.1.legal-1osso8) but it is not going to be installed ii busybox 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso Tiny utilities for small and embedded systems Why can't I install upstart? The busybox package might conflict somehow indirectly with upstart and apt plans to remove it. Try this to get different output: apt-get install busybox upstart ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: My N900 has diffmo as an essential package; safe to remove?
ext Paul Hartman paul.hartman+ma...@gmail.com writes: So I suppose I have two questions: 1) What causes a package to become essential? The maintainer of that package has decided to make it essential and puts a Essential: yes field into debian/control. For Maemo, packages often become essential by accident when packaging bits are copied over from Debian. 2) Is it actually safe to remove diffmo? I don't want an unbootable device or anything bad like that. I assume that diffmo is a replacement for busybox /bin/diff. If so, then you only need to make sure that you always have a working /bin/diff. Thus, if after removing diffmo you end up without /bin/diff, repair that immediately, maybe by symlinking it to busybox, or by installing diffutils-gnu. (If this is not about /bin/diff, then I apologize for the confusion.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: PR1.3 OTA update - overriding Nokia PC Suite prompt
ext Dawid Lorenz da...@lorenz.co writes: Case is now closed. Turned out finding out conflicting packages was as simple as tapping Details button in Maemo5 update in App Manager. Ok! Another way to investigate this is to install the OS meta package with apt-get: apt-get install mp-fremantle-203-pr This might be able to resolve the conflicts automatically, and it will at least give you more hints. The following might be outdated, but it used to be true at some point: Apt-get dist-upgrade is a bit dangerous since we do not have a well maintained base system in Maemo: For example, if there is a package marked Essential in a repository, apt-get dist-upgrade will install it, but that Essential flag is probably just inherited by accident from Debian. This happens when you enable the SDK repo for example, which contains the essential coreutils. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: app manager trouble
ext Brian Keck bwk...@gmail.com writes: HAM log currently hildon-application-manager 2.2.65 apt-worker exited. Password: The prompt is suspicious. The apt-worker is started via sudo, so maybe your sudo configuration is 'wrong'. Check /etc/sudoers /etc/sudoers.d/ and maybe run update-sudoers. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: PR 1.2 update and messaging
ext Aldon Hynes aldon.hy...@orient-lodge.com writes: Okay... I've finally gotten PR 1.2 running and just about everything seems to be working, with one exception. My SMS messages are not showing up in Converstations. I can send and receive new SMS messages, but they do not show up in conversations. I have the same problem and will try to get to the bottom of this today. For me, incoming text messages are displayed, but they are not stored permanently. Also, the Recent calls list remains empty. Checking the database /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db or el.db with sqlite3 shows the old messages in the database. Yes, and el-v1.db and el.db are _exactly_ the same size for me, so maybe some schema conversion failed and el.db is now in the wrong format or something and rtcom refuses to both read and write it. That's a very very uneducated guess of course. I guess I have to read the rtcom sources or hunt down the developers here... :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: PR 1.2 update and messaging
Vollmer Marius (Nokia-D/Helsinki) marius.voll...@nokia.com writes: Checking the database /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db or el.db with sqlite3 shows the old messages in the database. Yes, and el-v1.db and el.db are _exactly_ the same size for me, so maybe some schema conversion failed and el.db is now in the wrong format or something and rtcom refuses to both read and write it. That's a very very uneducated guess of course. Ok, turns out I was right again. :-( el-v1.db is created by making a copy of el.db and then modifying its schema in place. If that fails for any reason, el-v1.db is left in place in the old format but assumed to have been converted and apparently is then considered broken and rtcom refuses to use it. All future call events and incoming text messages are lost. rant That's very very very bad, of course. At the least, rtcom should move the 'corrupted' database to the side and create a new one so that new events aren't lost. Plus a little dialog telling the user that the impossible has happened. (There is a ton of code in rtcom-messsagin-ui to deal with messages that couldn't be saved, such as retrying to save them later, but that is all in vain if the reason for failure doesn't go away. There is also code to show an error dialog, but I haven't seen it.) /rant Anyway, removing el-v1.db and el-v1.db-journal and then rebooting fixed this for me. The database got correctly converted during boot and I have all my conversations back (minus the one that got lost while the database was in the wrong format). Be sure to make a backup before removing el-v1.db, of course. You can check whether el-v1.db is in the right format like this: $ sqlite3 ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db sqlite .schema Events If the Events table contains the outgoing column like this CREATE TABLE Events (..., outgoing BOOL DEFAULT 0, ... ); then you have the right format. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: PR1.2 is here
ext Dawid Lorenz a...@adl.pl writes: I carried on with PR1.2 update and it completed without a glitch. Just out of curiosity: How long did that take? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: FM Transmitter Sends Sounds But Not Music
ext Xavier Bestel xavier.bes...@free.fr writes: So obviously my phone has a problem. It might also be your car. Radio transmitters are usually outside of your car, and the antenna might be optimized for that. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Not enough memory
Tamminen Eero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) eero.tammi...@nokia.com writes: AFAIK: * Application manager doesn't have caches on rootfs, but on the 2GB partition. * However, if you use apt _directly_, you need to tell it to use 2GB partition for its caching like application manager does. There are a number of caches involved, and I don't know the latest information about where they are unfortunately. Some of them got moved around recently, I think. The caches are: /var/lib/apt/lists/ - Packages and Release files from the repos. /var/cache/apt/ - 'compiled' binary representation of above /var/cache/apt/archives - downloaded packages ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Problem with app manager
ext daniel young djyou...@gmail.com writes: ~ $ df -h FilesystemSize Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 227.9M204.0M 19.7M 91% / Thanks! So you do have enough space... I am momentarily out of clues. This is the code in question, if anyone wants to have a look why this might fail: http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/src/apt-worker.cc#line4110 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: FW: [Pc-connectivity-devel] Help with Maemo Virtual Image Install Documentation
Tikka Jarmo (Nokia-D/Helsinki) jarmo.ti...@nokia.com writes: [jot] For those who need to have also other environments in their Linux PC than Maemo and of course those who do not happen to have any of those specific Linux distros we support in their PC prefer using Virtual Image over reinstalling their PC for Maemo. I hope that people can get the Maemo SDK to work on every GNU/Linux distribution out there. We do not need to provide binary packages for each distribution, but we should provide all necessary sources etc so that people can get the Maemo SDK running on their distributions. For non-GNU/Linux platform, creating a image for a virtual machine might be the way to go. Luckily I don't have to worry about that. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: FW: [Pc-connectivity-devel] Help with Maemo Virtual Image Install Documentation
Tikka Jarmo (Nokia-D/Helsinki) jarmo.ti...@nokia.com writes: I hope that people can get the Maemo SDK to work on every GNU/Linux distribution out there. We do not need to provide binary packages for each distribution, but we should provide all necessary sources etc so that people can get the Maemo SDK running on their distributions. [jot] We have never had full source delivery for our Maemo development environment, not even for our own SDK rootstraps for which we have tried to provide buildable sources (we have always had also Nokia binaries for rootstraps :). I am not talking about the rootstraps or Maemo itself, but about all the necessary source etc so that people can get the Maemo SDK running on their distributions. That would be mostly Scratchbox, including the devkit and toolchain packages, but maybe also helper scripts like maemo-assistant. (I hope Scratchbox can run a 32 bit target on a 64 bit host without emulation.) For Maemo toolchain (Scratchbox and tools) we have not even tried to provide environment that can be rebuild. Hmm, what is this, then: http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/src/ And to be honest I do not even believe many people are willing to build their development environment but I think many would like to have that opportunity. Yes. For non-GNU/Linux platform, creating a image for a virtual machine might be the way to go. Luckily I don't have to worry about that. As being developer in maemo organization/project also you need to worry about these things or we will not have them... We have a lot of things despite me not worrying about them. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: FW: [Pc-connectivity-devel] Help with Maemo Virtual Image Install Documentation
Tikka Jarmo (Nokia-D/Helsinki) jarmo.ti...@nokia.com writes: Hi, -Original Message- From: Vollmer Marius (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 07 January, 2010 11:58 For Maemo toolchain (Scratchbox and tools) we have not even tried to provide environment that can be rebuild. Hmm, what is this, then: http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/src/ [jot] You are welcome to try to build those sources :). Right. I had a quick look and at least scratchbox 1.0.17.tar.gz is indeed seriously fucked up. For the love of god, someone please tell the Scratchboxites how these things are done in the real world. Depressing, really. Let's say it is somewhat challenging to get them through any compiler because as I said we have not put any effort rebuilding sbox :). You should. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Maemo 5 UI Tweaks
It is about as configurable as can be, only not using a GUI. See here for details: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=442281postcount=5 Oh, yeah, that's really user-friendly. :-( Let's do something about this. For some time now, I wanted to write some Control Panel plugins (or similar) that give access to hidden configuration options such as these. There ought to be a lot of them, and while changing them might require a reboot or some other not-so-nice interaction flow, it would be still be nice to tweak these settings from a UI. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Pc-connectivity-devel] Help with Maemo Virtual Image Install Documentation
Tikka Jarmo (Nokia-D/Helsinki) jarmo.ti...@nokia.com writes: We have a problem that most standard compression tools have restriction about 2GB max file size. Time to post an old favorite of mine again: http://braid-game.com/news/?p=455 The first rant is about the Visual Studio 2010 community technology preview. Very funny and even kinda relevant. :-) [jot] I still do not understand any better why you wanted to send this same link and comment (again :) as reply to my email. I have posted it again because I like the rant a lot and want to share it as much as possible. I did this as a reply to your email because you are producing the same kind of (IMO) monstrosity that they make fun of in the podcast: shipping a development environment as a humongous virtual machine image. I know that our virtual machine image is just one of the alternatives, and not the main way to install and run our development environment, but still, I found the similarity between it and what Microsoft has done to be striking. Especially when you say in your comment that your reply is not relevant? Hmm, which comment? I said here that it is even kinda relevant. kinda is short for kind of and roughly means here it is not entirely irrelevant. Hth. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Decision-making processes (was: Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
ext Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie writes: The problem seems to be that while some decisions are self-evident, obvious, and uncontentious (eg let's give the N7*/8*/9* series wireless capability), a few of them are so spectacularly wrong that the user community is amazed, and because no information is available about the reasoning process, they can only conclude that someone in Nokia was missing a vital piece of information. Reminds me of Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Or in other words, middle management. :-) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
ext Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: Ah, the joys of industry jargon... Yep, and petty ego protectionism. (On Igor's part, just to be clear.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
ext Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. I would change that to Maemo devices. Linux, the kernel, is certainly not to blame for a clogged up user land, and Maemo is so different from any other existing GNU-or-not-GNU/Linux distribution that it is solely responsible for all its shortcomings. (In other words, I only ever reinstall my Debian GNU/Linux OSes when the hardware get replaced, and I run 'unstable' on everything.) Unfortunately, Maemo hasn't had a chance yet to gain real long-term stability. The life-cycle of a Maemo version is too short for that, and there is no continuity between versions. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Help with Maemo Virtual Image Install Documentation
Tikka Jarmo (Nokia-D/Helsinki) jarmo.ti...@nokia.com writes: Files: 5 Size: 8453907228 Compressed: 1572864000' We have a problem that most standard compression tools have restriction about 2GB max file size. Time to post an old favorite of mine again: http://braid-game.com/news/?p=455 The first rant is about the Visual Studio 2010 community technology preview. Very funny and even kinda relevant. :-) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Application Manager broken? /var/lib/apt/lists
ext spencer@rbs.com spencer@rbs.com writes: In the log I see. /var/lib/apt/lists.new/partial is missing I looked for /var/lib/apt/lists but it seems somehow the filesystem is corrupted. Once you uncorrupt your filesystem, the /var/lib/apt part is easy to fix. The directory only contains files that are downloaded from the repositories, so you don't need to rescue them. Just make sure that you hve all the directories that apt-get complains about, likely /var/lib/apt/lists/ /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Abiword
ext Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, ext Peter Flynn wrote: Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Hmmm... Interesting. Abiword was in my catalog and is installed on my 810 (running Diablo). The current version is 2.6.4. I've had no problems. Turns out it's still in extras-devel, which is (natch) not added by default to a new installation of Diablo. Working fine now. I think extras-devel should probably be included in an OS distro, disabled. No, packages should get from extras-devel to to extras when they're found to work fine. If there would be the equivalent of extras-devel for the whole operating system, then there might be a installer for the extras-devel version of the OS. That installer would pre-configure extras-devel. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App-Manager failure
ext Ryan Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't the Application manager log provide enough information? (And if not, what was missing from it and could you file a bug about that?) He was using Bora, so, no, but any bug filed would be WORKSFORME, so it's a moot discussion. The Application manager had logs since the beginning. Or are you saying that the log didn't contain enough information? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Cannot install OS2008 Feature upgrade?
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anybody have any meaningful advice? Switch of Show all packages in Tools Settings. That should clean up the package lists. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Good News - WIFI NOT Borked after Update
ext Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Touching things under $HOME shouldn't bork an upgrade. Very true. We have been discussing the uncleanliness of letting packages touch $HOME on and off for a long time already. It's no consolation for those of you who had to suffer, but things are going to be done about this. Right now, all pre-installed-* packages are simply excluded from the SSU. This is not very clean in itself, but a reasonable thing for now, I think. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Denis Dimick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree that updating over a network should, and does work from a normal Linux distro, however, I'm not sure it's going to work on Maemo anytime soon; I'm guessing the small memory footprint prevents some of the applications from not killing off a SSH session when there's an upgrade. Ahh, no, the browser daemon might get swapped out, but there is more than enough memory to keep a ssh session going during an upgrade. Upgrades don't take that much ram anyway, the danger is to run out of 'disk' space. My guess is that it is just the way our non-standard network configuration mojo works: if the icd2 daemon gets updated, it takes the network down with it during replacement. I am not sure about this, maybe it is just a small bug somewhere, or maybe it is a big design flaw of our network configuration mojo, or something inbetween. We just need somebody to care and fix it. I'd say the better thing is to write into the install scripts that need to kill of network concections, [...] There should be no need to kill the network. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marius Vollmer wrote: Yes. What about making red-pill mode non-persistent: on the next start of the AM, it would be back in blue-pill mode. I think this is a good middle-ground solution for the problem at hand. Ok, it's decided, then. Cool. There are two settings of the red-pill mode that require a restart of the AM to take effect. They would need to be fixed. Any volunteers? :-) From http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill-stable.html * Always check for updates Activating this setting removes the refresh button from the toolbar and instead performs a Checking for updates operation everytime you switch to the Browse installable applications or Check for updates view. This settings was added for some quick UI experiments, but we kept it afterward. You need to restart the Application manager for this setting to take effect. I think we can just remove this setting. It's pretty useless. * Ignore packages from wrong domain Usually, a package from a wrong domain will be completely ignored by the Application manager. Deactivating this setting will not ignore these packages. However, When actually installing a package from a wrong domain, a warning message will still be displayed and you need to confirm that installation should proceed. You need to restart the Application manager for this setting to take effect. The problem here is that the value of this setting is communicated to the apt-worker backend process only once during startup. It's useful to keep it, I'd say. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: WiFi borked after update
ext Andrew Flegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: More information on the problem/use-case of the cross-domain package would be useful, I think. The package domains are an effort to simulate a sane distribution on the device: in a sane distribution, a given package is available only from one source. For example, if you need modifications to libfarsight for your in-house enterprise application (that's a real world example), you can not just go and make your own version of libfarsight. You need to coordinate and cooperate with the maintainer of the existing libfarsight library and (ideally) get him to include your modifications. This is something that concerns developers and the maintainers of the distribution. They need to figure this out between themselves. We can not leave it to the user to decide whether this rogue version of libfarsight is OK, but this other one is not. Thus, we do not even inform the user about the problem, all rogue versions of libfarsight are simply ignored. (In the Application manager, apt-get doesn't care.) A similar thing will likely happen with missing packages. Once I have robustified the Application manager to give more reliable error messages, I will likely just reword the Some packages are missing error message into This package is broken or The catalogues are broken. Again, the users should not get the impression that missing packages is something that they can fix (by hunting them down somewhere on the internets, say). Missing packages mean that the distribution is broken and developers need to fix it. But, the path the hell is paved with good intentions, and the package domain system has good chance of getting in the way of people who know what they are doing. That's why you can switch it off in red-pill mode. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Debian warns not to do an upgrade over X, because X will go down and up when it is reinstalled, [...] Never happened to me, and I would expect the X packagers to be better than that. The xserver-xorg.postinst is the mother of all maintainer scripts (almost 2000 lines), so I don't know what it does, but I don't think it will restart the server this side of 1980. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 05:28:19PM +0300, Marius Vollmer wrote: ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Debian warns not to do an upgrade over X, because X will go down and up when it is reinstalled, [...] Never happened to me, and I would expect the X packagers to be better than that. The xserver-xorg.postinst is the mother of all maintainer scripts (almost 2000 lines), so I don't know what it does, but I don't think it will restart the server this side of 1980. It was included in the instructions for the sarge-etch upgrade, if I recall correctly. They say, these services may well be terminated during the upgrade, which is different from your X will go down and up... :-) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ryan Abel wrote: To anybody reading using Red Pill mode, please don't. If you aren't absolutely positive of what it's going to do, then you're just going to get yourself in trouble. You don't need it and you don't want it, so don't use it. Not trying to spin any flamewars or try to be obnoxious here, however I just have to ask this: why the need for 2 modes in first place?. The Application manager does not by default expose the full package management to the user. Mainly, packages are separated into two classes: visible packages and invisible packages, and the AM only shows the visible packages. The idea is that we should allow developers to use whatever package arrangement is best, but still isolate the user from the resulting complexity. We are doing that with the OS updates for example: you see one package, and the dependencies of that package cause all kind of magic to happen behind the scenes. Applications that have their own frameworks or run-times that are maybe shared with other applications can do the same. For example, python doesn't need to appear in the Application manager at all, only the applications that use it. However, the full package management system is still there under the hood, and it is easy allow people to see it, if they so choose. That was the original red-pill mode: it would just change the upper layers of the Application manager UI so that the invisible packages are no longer filtered out. You got to see how reality really was, not a machine generated illusion. Gradually, red-pill mode acquired more features. I generally made it so that whenever I put a feature into the Application manager that should make things simpler for normal people but had the potential for preventing hackers from doing what they need, I added a red-pill mode setting for switching that feature off. For example, the Application manager now tries to be clever about where to download packages to. It will use one of your memory cards without asking or telling. But, we weren't totally confident that this wont cause problems on its own: the filesystem on the card might be corrupted in a way that the AM does not detect and downloads would fail over and over again, etc. So, there is a red-pill setting that allows you to force the AM to always download to the root filesystem. More details about the red-pill settings can be found here: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill-stable.html ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Andrew Flegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the reason for the two modes - one gives you the sanitised view, one gives you everything. I fully agree with blue-pill mode for end-users; but I don't understand why red-pill's needed: if you're a power user, I can't imagine Hildon App Mgr being a better UI than apt-get. Yes, I agree. However, sometimes the Application manager is the only tool you have: xterm might not be there, or you can not login as root. It would be frustrating to not be able to bootstrap yourself into a root shell just because the Application manager doesn't let you install some package. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Andrew Flegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True. Perhaps we (as a community) should try pushing this message more: red-pill mode is intended as a rescue environment in the event of b0rkage; not for every day use (even by power users)? Yes. What about making red-pill mode non-persistent: on the next start of the AM, it would be back in blue-pill mode. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Denis Dimick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While I'm not sure I'm in Red Pill Mode, I did my update from the command line over SSH; a really STUPID ting to do. On a Maemo device, yes. In general, no. Updating while logged in over the network must work in any half-serious OS. (Red-pill mode only affects the UI of the Application manager. It has no effect on apt-get, etc.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I distinctly remember seeing osso* packages in the listing and I caught a glimpse of screen when it was downloading separate packages. It never got to Feature Upgrade. I got to that much later, when I fixed my networking. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure I've got Operating System Upgrade and not Feature Upgrade, but I can't be sure now. Uhh, ohh, I think I know what you did. You are in red-pill mode with Show all packages on and then you hit Upgrade All, right? The only supported way to upgrade is to update the single OS2008 Feature Upgrade package in blue-pill mode. You approach should work, in theory, with high quality packages. But we aren't there yet, I am afraid. I think I'll just try this to see what happens... I have already changed the defaults of red-pill mode to be 'safer': Show all packages and Show magic:sys are now off by default. Hmm, a dependency error is not something that you can override. Any chance that you remember more details about this? I didn't override much - it just complained that package X can't be installed because of missing dependency and offered choices (as I remember it now) of skipping that one or aborting. Yep, this happens when you hit Update All: every package is updated separately, and if one of them fails, you can go on. This feature is meant for application updates that are mostly independent from each other. Doing it with hundreds of system packages with complicated dependencies will likely wreck havoc. It's almost like trying to update your Debian with wget and dpkg instead of apt-get. I know how frustrating it is to have very little details to resolve issues, but I was in a hurry, and I needed my N800 in somewhat working condition no matter what, so I just took as many shortcuts as I could at the time just to get going. Now that I've learned my lesson I won't be agreeing to any updates if I don't have an hour or so to spend so I can do thing more diligently (including bug reports). Ah, no, just stay out of red-pill mode for updates. They might take some time, but they should not need any baby-sitting. It should be one big download followed by one big installation and a clean reboot. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Which SDHC is which when using backup.
ext Hendrik Boom [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I ask -- which is which? They should have different icons... the one where only the upper right quarter of the card is exposed is the internal one. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Which SDHC is which when using backup.
Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ext Hendrik Boom [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I ask -- which is which? They should have different icons... the one where only the upper right quarter of the card is exposed is the internal one. Ahh, sorry, didn't see the backup qualification. They have different icons in the File manager, but no icons in the Backup/Restore application. Could be fixed... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, September 30, 2008 10:37, Marius Vollmer said: Hmm, the Application manager will first download all the needed packages, and only after that has happened will it start the update process. So you should have all the packages somewhere. from what I've seen it was downloading packages one-by-one installing as it goes. :( No, that's impossible... The code just doesn't do it this way. Once the Installing OS2008 Feature Upgrade progress bar is shown, the network should no longer be needed. So I would say that your upgrade got interrupted by something else than the network going down. Any idea what that might have been? Nothing was happening at the time. Sequence was fairly simple: 1. turn on the updates (via app manager) 2. walk away 3. let N800 download/install packages 4. come back later In what state did you find the N800? Was the Application manager still open, or did you see the home screen? I assume the AM was still open, since otherwise there should have been a note saying Update successfully installed. If the AM stops the update without rebooting and without giving any error message, then that's a bug int the AM. 5. reboot N800 6. live happy. items 3 and 6 were the ones with the problem: #3 broke several times complaining about version mismatches (to which I replied: ok) Hmm, a dependency error is not something that you can override. Any chance that you remember more details about this? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, ext Marius Vollmer wrote: Unlike apt-get, the AM tries to ignore broken packages so that, for example, a broken maemomapper installation does not prevent a OS upgrade. Um, wouldn't a broken package database be a good reason to refuse to do on OS upgrade? Hrmmhrmmh. Yeah But it is quite hard to unbreak packages with only the Application manager, and if we do it right, there shouldn't be any harm coming from unrelated, unconfigured or otherwise broken packages. Sometimes I am thinking that maybe dpkg should ignore most exit codes of maintainer scripts, and the scripts would need to explicitly exit with 112 to let the installation fail or something... most maintainer script failures in maemo are bogus. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Tommy Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I suspected I did not have enough space to install but I suppose the reason for the failure could have been something else. There is one stupid bug in the Application manager that I suspect might be to blame for some of the failures. If you have broken packages on your device, that might trick the AM into believing that an OS update will succeed while in reality it will fail with missing dependencies, conflicts or similar. Here are the details, in case you are interested: Unlike apt-get, the AM tries to ignore broken packages so that, for example, a broken maemomapper installation does not prevent a OS upgrade. When preparing the OS update (or any other package operation), the AM 'simulates' what would happen to the dependencies, and if any package is broken by the simulation, the OS update is not done. The stupid thing is this: in order to ignore packages that are already broken before the simulation, the AM remembers the number of broken packages before the simulation, and if there are _more_ packages broken after the simulation, the operation is rejected. Now, it can happen that the simulated operation fixes some of the previously broken packages, and breaks some others. Thus, the number of broken packages can be the same or even lower eventho the operation should be rejected. I'll fix that. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: WiFi borked after update
ext Dmitry S. Makovey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Today in the morning my N800 happily announced available updates. So I agreed to install them. At some point half way through WiFi connection was interrupted so I've been left with packages in inconsistent state (I assume) as my WiFi can't locate any access points anymore spinning into infinity. Hmm, the Application manager will first download all the needed packages, and only after that has happened will it start the update process. So you should have all the packages somewhere. Look into /media/mmc2/.apt-archive-cache /media/mmc1/.apt-archive-cache /var/cache/apt/archives. During a OS update, the network connection will usually be shutdown and then brought up again, as the relevant packages get updated. But the Wifi going down should not have any ill effect on the OS update, it should finish normally. So I would say that your upgrade got interrupted by something else than the network going down. Any idea what that might have been? What are my options in fixing this? First try # dpkg --configure -a Does this do anything? Any errors? This might bring your connectivity back. If it does, try to complete the update, either in the Application manager or with apt-get upgrade. Rebooting might also help, in case you didn't do that already. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Can't Install New Apps in Diablo on N810
ext Rick Bilonick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I checked the log but there were no messages for packages I tried to install. The log is not saved, it only shows what you have done just now. So I should have said that you should try to install a package and then check Tools Log for more detailed errors. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Removing excess packages after Diablo upgrade
ext R. G. Newbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: These along with many other packages (chinese-font, clink-av0, gnuchess for example) are listed as dependencies/requirements of 'OS2008 feature upgrade 1:4.2008.23-14'. Is there any way to remove this sort of restriction? (Unpack, revise and repack the .deb for example.?) Yes, that would work. You can also remove the files of the packages and leave the package itself installed (after verifying that nothing else than the osso-software-version-rx34 package depends on it.) A better option might be to just remove the osso-software-version-rx34 (or -rx44) package and update 'manually' with apt-get upgrade etc from then on. It is also possible to put alternative meta packages into the maemo.org Extras repository, if there is enough interest in the community to maintain their own variants. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: apt-get vs. hildon-application-manager in Diablo
ext Andrew Daviel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now with Diablo there is a scheduled update that keeps flashing at me if everything is not up-to-date. If you don't want the blinking icon, you can disable the plugin via Control panel Panels Status bar Software update notifier. hildon-application-manager reads a catalogue list out of /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues (an XML file), and creates /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list each time. hildon-application-manager-config dump dumps out the XML hildon-application-manager-config set blows it away (duh) hildon-application-manager-config set xx.xml resets it to the contents of xx.xml Correct. There is also h-a-m-config add and delete in addition to set. (Set without arguments is a bit brutal, agreed. I changed it to fail when given no arguments.) apt-get reads /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* If you add more lists, or edit hildon-application-manager.list (as I did) you will have a sync problem and perhaps duplicate entries. Adding sources to /etc/apt/sources.list should be fine, but /etc/apt/hildon-application-manager.list will be overwritten from time to time. In any case, the Application manager and apt-get will always use the same repositories (unless there is a bug somewhere). I'm a bit confused why it would want to upgrade rsync to the same version, and why it would want to downgrade maemo-mapper. Did you check the epochs of the versions? Also, if the versions are the same, but the packages differ in other details (like dependencies, maintainer, size) then apt-get (and the AM) will prefer the package in the repository. Perhaps something to do with my having had a Bora repository in the catalogue - Yes, messed up repositories are the most likely reason for the strangeness you see. the newer Nokia repositories have a sort-weight entry which the older and 3rd-party ones don't, which may affect which repositories are searched for updates first. No, the sort weight is only used to sort the repositories for display in the Catalogues dialog of the AM. They are not used to prefer certain repositories over others. Right now I managed to blow away my XML catalogue completely and but saved most of it by copying the dump from my xterm window. But I'm missing some off the end, such as the notifier entry and perhaps some of the keys. - does anyone know where I can download a clean copy from (without flashing!) or can send me a copy ? You should be able to just run # /var/lib/dpkg/info/nokia-repository.postinst that should bring back your catalogue configuration. Or open that file in an editor and restore the configuration manually. Other packages of interest are the '*-domain' packages: # dpkg -l *-domain ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: About Process
ext Zhenghe Zhang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you want to download three packages ,you will see three processes of /usr/lib/apt/methods/http. And if you want to download ten package ,you will see ten processes. I don't think this is true. Apt-get will use one http process per server for parallel downloading, not one per package. I want to ask you about controling the processes of http.I would like to limit the number of the process when download many packages. You can use the Acquire::Queue-Mode setting. See the apt.conf man page. Since we have so many repositories and since that seems to cause some problems, we should probably use Acquire::Queue-Mode access; by default. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: how to put apps in 'My Selection' tab
ext Faheem Pervez [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Postinst isn't used, instead you can set a flash-and-reboot flag in control. Yes, and the main reason for this contortion is that flashing the initfs should be followed immediately by a reboot. The kernel can safely be flashed at any time, but it is done together with the initfs to avoid the situation where the kernel is updated but the initfs is not. If, hypothetically, there would be no initfs, we would just run fiasco-flasher in the kernel-diablo-flasher postinst. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: how to put apps in 'My Selection' tab
ext David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ryan Abel wrote: you've removed osso-software-version-rx*4 (and trust me, it was removed). Shouldn't it really be marked 'essential' then? No, if you know what you are doing, there are good reasons to remove it, or to replace it with a different meta package (such as the -unlocked variants). Only those packages should be essential that are required for the package management itself to work. For the maemo platform, that might still be a lot: everything needed to start and use the Application manager (and X-Term?) could be considered essential. But the whole OS would be a bit much. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Application Manager - Refresh application list
ext Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Going to a terminal kinda defeats the whole purpose of a GUI app manager, especially for a touchscreen device that doesn't have a real keyboard. In this case, you would use the terminal to debug your problem. Once it's solved, you can go back using the Application manager. So what happens when you run apt-get update in the terminal? (Make sure you have http_proxy set correctly.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Can't find repository
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking of non-UI programs listed in the Application Manager, how can we solve the current problem of having tens of pidgin/canola/gcompris plugins/themes/translations cluttering up the list? Good question. We have been pondering this a bit. I think a collapsible tree (with two levels only) would work. If there is a package $foo, and several packages named $foo-$bar, group them under $foo. What about using the Recommends and Suggests fields of a package for this? When installing a package, the user could get a dialog where s/he can select which additional packages to install. The dialog would list all recommended and suggested packages, and the recommended ones would be pre-selected. One open questions with this is: how can the user get back to this dialog after installing a package? E.g., you might want to change the set of Pidgin plugins later on. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: flash-and-reboot, initfs-flasher, kernel-diablo-flasher
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 03:51:39PM -0300, Jonathan Markevich wrote: These packages are not completely installed on upgrade... if you can, go to a root prompt and type apt-get -f install What's up with this, does anyone know? Why is it that after a fresh OS reflash the apt database ends up inconsistent? The osso-software-version-rx44 package exists twice: once in your device and once in the Nokia System Software Updates repository. These two instances of the package have the same version, but different dependencies (stupid, I know, see below). The osso-software-version-rx44 in the repository additionally depends on the three packages that you list in the subject. Apt-get uses the information from the repository, which results in the error message you see. Running apt-get -f install will fix it. The Application manager is not affected by this, it simply ignores the problem and carries on. After the first OS update, the problem goes away. It's a bug of course that the two instances of osso-software-version-rx44 are not identical. The additional dependencies in the repository instance are used to (as you might have guessed :) to control flashing of the kernel and initfs during a OS update. The osso-software-version-rx44 instance in the flash image does not need them, and I didn't see the problem with this because I wasn't thinking. (I don't reflash my devices anymore, so I didn't run into this problem myself...) Yep, it's a bit embarassing, but should have no bad consequences other than having to run apt-get -f install once (or disabling the Nokia System Software Updates repository) before you can use apt-get on the command line. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 not N-series? :-)
ext Jac Kersing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Did I realy expect to be able to use a device with Linux to access copyrighted content? No. That is probably still one step too far) Heh, most of the content on the Intertubes is copyrighted by someone. You are probably thinking about accessing content that has been crippled with Digital Restrictions Management technology. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Column width in Application manager
ext Adam Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was because some of the version details of a few packages in the list are so long, that it's eating all the width. Yep. We finally fixed that annoyance in hildon-application-manager 2.1.4. I didn't find a way to hide the long versions, I'm afraid. I just installed the 2 or 3 packages that were causing it, and without those in the list, the application name column managed to get some screen space back again! You can uncheck the Show all packages option in Settings. That way, you can still stay in red-pill mode but get the more useful short lists of packages. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: osso-gnupg
ext Kip Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Could you try to compile it yourself? I would like to try that. I know how to build the package from source on my desktop Debian system, but not sure for maemo. Something like... apt-get source gnupg apt-get build-deps gnupg dpkg-buildpackage ... Yes, that should be all that is needed. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Cleaning up space on internal memory
ext sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Some language packages are compulsory to the system. If you try to remove it via apt-get, you'll be prompted about the dangers. I tried once to clean it all and ended with a broken system :) You can, however, just remove files from /usr/share/locale. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: installing skype on N810
ext Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Erik Hovland wrote: That is the cause. Flash the updated version of the OS and skype will install without issue. Since maemo is loosely based on Debian, what are the chances we'll ever see an incremental upgrade path akin to an 'apt-get upgrade' instead of being required to flash the device every time a minor release comes out? The chances are quite high. It's the obvious thing to do. I can't make any promises about just when it will happen, but if it doesn't happen this year, I would blame myself personally. I can maybe understand going from 2007 to 2008 but a dot release shouldn't have to be such a hassle to move to, should it? It is tedious to have to reinstall all my other applications in the event that I might want to install something like Skype that requires the latest libraries. And if it's the new app's fault, why can't the libraries be upgraded instead as with any other standard Linux distro? There are at least two points here, and maemo can improve with regard to both: - the libraries could be more relaxed (but still correct) in specifying what dependencies applications should use that link to them, - and we could make newer versions of libraries available to everyone so that applications can drag them in on demand. Newer versions of dpkg-shlibdeps will compute more relaxed shlibs dependencies so that a newer version of a library will only be required when the new features in it are actually used[1]. But even when packages use the most-relaxed-but-still-correct dependencies, we should have a better way to roll out API additions and let applications use them. Right now, when an application needs a newer system library than what you have on your device, you need to upgrade your whole operating system by re-flashing. What is going to happen next is that you still need to upgrade your whole operating system even if you only want a single newer library, but you can do it by installing a bunch of packages from a repository. It will very likely be so that you still need to initiate this upgrade explicitly, but the Application Manager will hopefully tell you very clearly that you need to do it in order to install the application that needs the newer library. The usual way is that apt-get would just upgrade the library along with the application, without making any big fuss about it. I (at least) am not very comfortable with this right now, since it would mean that you get operating system configurations on your device that Nokia has never tested. Yeah, I need to sit down and precisely specify the upgrade computation performed by the Application Manager. Right now, it's not nearly as smart as apt-get or aptitude, but I don't want to just use their algorithms either since they are prone to killing the system by accidentally removing important packages. (I don't really blame that on apt-get or aptitude, I'd say it's more a problem of maemo not telling apt what is important.) [1] http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/ImprovedDpkgShlibdeps ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: installing Debian packages on N810
ext Jeffrey Mark Siskind [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it possible to install Debian armel (EABI ARM) packages from sid (unstable) on an N810? Only by accident. There is no defined relationship between maemo and Debian. The particular packages in question are emacs21 and texlive. Yay, academics on the run, ready to toss out a paper wherever they go... :-) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation dialogs. Yeah, and there will be more in the future... There should be at least one before starting the operation, Please Ghod no. I confirmed the operation when I selected install or remove. We could maybe get rid of this confirmation dialog for operations that are activated from the toolbar button and the menu, but not when they are activated from the list view... hmm. I put that on my list. The obvious exception, of course, is attempting to remove some required package, or removing something that's going to break dependencies. The AM wont let you do that, not even in red-pill mode. and we can't get rid of the legal Notice dialog for non-certified software. How about letting me mark repos as okay by me... You can hack the configuration of the AM that tells it which catalogues are considered 'certified'. There is no UI for this, obviously, but look around in /etc/osso-application-manager. This only works for signed repositories, tho. When using the AM to install system software updates, there will be lots more: please take a backup, all applications will be closed, continue?, device will reboot, continue?, don't touch me while I do scary things to the kernel, maybe even more. We should try to combine these messages. This needs some thought -- in particular, what defines a system software update? A package with Maemo-Flags: system-update counts as a system update. System updates right now are based on meta-packages. There are more flags: reboot if you want a reboot after installing your package, close-apps if you want all apps to be closed before installing it, etc. The meta package for a system update will typically use something like Maemo-Flags: system-update, reboot, suggest-backup. We might need to extend this a bit to cover flashing of kernel and initfs in a nice way. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How important is it to fix this? I'm working on the assumption that you would only activate Show all packages in an emergency, but would usually leave it off (precisely because it decreases the useability so much). The problem is that while in theory, I could just display all the packages in a particular cagetory, or even only the users/* categories, in practice the category stuff is so screwed up that the only way to find anything is browsing the all lists. Browsing the All category and the Show all packages settings are two different things. (I am not sure whether you are aware of that.) Activating the Show all packages setting will list all packages in the package database, between 1000 and 2000 or so. This is what is unacceptably slow. Deactivating Show all packages and browsing the All category should give packages in the small hundreds or so, and that should be OKish performace wise. No? This screwup isn't your fault, of course; it's the lack of having a standard policy document to guide developers. Even what there is isn't consistent. Consider the 3-.x Making a package for the Application Manager in maemo 3.x document. It says: The AI only shows packages in the user section. Thus, your Section: field in the control file should be of the form user/SUBSECTION, where SUBSECTION is arbitrary. SUBSECTION should be a nice capitalised, English word like Ringtones Then it shows examples like: # user/accessories Accessories # user/communication Communication So, what goes in the control file? user/accessories or user/Accessories or user/accessories Accessories? Two of the three violate the previous definition, and the examples don't even follow the form. You misunderstood. The list is not a list of examples, it is a list of predefined categories that you should use whenever possible. The predefined categories are also localized. I hope the document that you refer to is not screwed up. I will check myself. Writing policy (standards, basically) is hard, of course. (I was involved in a lot of the early Debian policy documentation.) But to have a working thirdparty developer community, it's necessary. A complete anarchy does not lead to good results. Yes, but the Application Manager is not the one enforcing policy. If it encounters a non-policy-conforming package, it will still show and install it if possible. (And no, not-installing packages that don't have the user/foo section marker is not about enforcing policy, it is about enabling a nice and non-confusing UI experience. :) At lot people miss the fact that the reason Debian packages have such a good reputation (compared to RPMs, particulary RPMs from the Redhat 5-8 era), has very little to do with the technology of .deb and a huge amount to do with the Debian policy effort. Yes, this point merits repeating. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope the document that you refer to is not screwed up. I will check myself. Nope, it's fine. Please read it again. :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
ext Jean-Christian de Rivaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interresting, I missed this very important point, thanks for the info. I am Swiss French and I will buy the N810 as soon as possible, but I wonder what keyboard will be on the version buyable in Switzerland as the standard Keyboard here is a special one mixing German and French keys. I guess you get the German layout in Switzerland. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (In other words, it is conservative when removing things. Not like aptitude that goes and deletes half your OS if you are not careful.. :) Aww, cmon, this is mostly fixed in aptitude these days. Besides, it made life exciting! Yep, I should try aptitude again, but first impressions are hard to overcome... (I also don't the prolog impersonation that aptitude puts on sometimes: accept this solution or look at another equally obscure one?) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation dialogs. Yeah, and there will be more in the future... There should be at least one before starting the operation, and we can't get rid of the legal Notice dialog for non-certified software. When using the AM to install system software updates, there will be lots more: please take a backup, all applications will be closed, continue?, device will reboot, continue?, don't touch me while I do scary things to the kernel, maybe even more. We should try to combine these messages. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Digression: why am I not using the Application Manager? Well, besides the fact that apt-get is the One True Way, the AM is *slow*. And unreliable (upgrades and updates often fail, but work with apt-get). And there's no obvious way to upgrade packages except one at a time, which is both slow and tedious. End digression). I'm interested in this digression, sorry to distract from your main point. Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get? Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and installed the packages? Also, when you say that operations often fail, do you mean that the AM crashes or leaves your system in a inconsistent state, or do you mean that the AM doesn't find solutions to satisfy all dependencies whereas apt-get is able to find a solution and proceed? We will finally get a Update All button in Diablo. (In all likelihood it will just run all the updates one after the other instead of all at once as apt-get upgrade would do.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get? Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and installed the packages? Mostly it's the clicking/browsing issue. Ok, understood. This seems to be the general I am much more productive at the command line than with a WIMP interface situation. I can very much symphatize with that, but it mostly means that the Application Manager is not for you. It is perfectly fine and supported to use apt-get on the device. Having apt-get on the device is not just some artifact, it's the intended power-user interface that makes it acceptable for us to keep the Application Manager pretty basic. I am happy that the AM seems to be good enough that some hackers actually consider using it instead of apt-get or Synaptic, but UI-wise it only really is intended to manage smallish bundles of packages that make up applications. Activating the show all packages setting in red-pill mode is pretty much useless with its UI, for example. (My standard settings are: don't show all packages, don't show dependencies, but show magic:sys. That keeps the lists short and I still can update the hidden packages.) Also, the waiting for the lists to update in the UI. Yes, there is potential for optimization here. I was going to complain that the AM didn't show what new dependencies were going to be installed by a particular package, but I just looked, and there *is* a tab with that info. Is that a new with the recent firmware upgrade, or was I just blind before? That info was always there (since IT OS 2006). It would be nice if the AM would allow you to re-configure (in the dpkg sense) a partially installed app, without requiring an uninstall/reinstall. Probably an appropriate label would be try to fix broken packages. Yeah, except we don't want to have a magic Try to fix things button in the UI. We are planning to silently reconfigure packages automatically to unbreak them. This will get more important when we support updating system packages, which you obviously can't remove+install to unbreak them. Oh, and while you're reading: it would be *really nice* to have dependency tracking, like aptitude. This means that when you install foo, and it requires bar and baz, and you later remove foo, the tool remembers that bar and bas were automatically installed only to support foo, and removes those as well (assuming no other package also needs bar or baz, of course). The latest apt suite has this built in, so maybe it wouldn't be too hard? The Application Manager should actually do this (since IT OS 2006). However, it keeps its own information about packages that have been installed to satisfy dependencies (since our version of apt doesn't and I was not brave enough to fix libapt-pkg itself). Thus, it will only automatically remove a package that it has installed itself. (In other words, it is conservative when removing things. Not like aptitude that goes and deletes half your OS if you are not careful.. :) There is no explicit autoremove action. Rather, invisible packages are automatically removed together with the visible packages that depend on them. Check /var/lib/osso-application-installer/autoinst to see which packages are eligible for automatic removal. I want to let libapt-pkg do the book keeping in the next release, of course. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
ext James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marius, In reply to the space constraint and upgrade done to the entire OS. This was first solved in URPMI for Mandrake around 8.1 (Now called Mandriva) and AFAIK it has been ported into the dist-upgrade feature for dpkg/apt. I don't know what you are referring to excatly, but I too think that there is no fundamental problem to be solved here. Apt doesn't do the trick of splitting the update into pieces so that you don't need to download all package before unpacking the first one. I think that in theory it should be possible to only download a package immediately before it is unpacked and delete the archive file afterwards again. This approach would make the update much less reliable, tho, since a download failure can interrupt it. Right now, I do think we have the space needed for the packages, except maybe for whole-OS-updates on devices that don't have any memory card. I hope these are rare. Synaptic will run on the Nokia if you need a gui. Heck I've got in on my blackdog and that was even more constrained than the Nokia is. The goal is to give apt-get dist-upgrade to everybody, not just those that know how to use apt-get or Synaptic. But, yeah, we should have given it to the apt-getting crowd first and earlier. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: problem after re-flash
I looked in application manager's logs, and it says it's getting GPG errors (typing, and not pasting, so please excuse errors here): (You can save the log to flash and then transfer that somehow to email, but I'm sure you know that. :) W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com bora Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG [some key stuff] Nokia Internet Tablet Atomatic Signing Key [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is not a fatal error. Even if the signature could not be verified, the AM will install packages from that repository.[1] Also, openssh is not in the repositories that failed to be verified, right? [1] Yeah, I know, the AM shouldn't sweep failed signatures under the rug like it does now. I was kinda soft on that point because the signatures on tableteer were failing all the time because of some mirror network problems, but I guess problems that are not visible don't get fixed, so the AM will comletely reject repositories whose signature verification failed. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
ext Gary Baribault [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK then, can I beat up on them? Sure, keep it coming! :-) It is good to see what people care about, and a good rant is always appreciated. It really does help keep my priorities sane, at least. I agree, this is a lousy way of doing the updates, I cannot suggest this device to anyone if every time there is an update, all applications have to be re-installed!! Why can't the update take a proper#full backup to a flash card, dump a list of applications, and after the flash, re-install the latest updated applications? Nothing is impossible, and we actually have enough bright people here to have all the right ideas, but somehow it always takes lng to actually turn them into code in your hands. The backing up and restoring the list of applications feature was committed to the Application Manager trunk in February 2007 (with lots of bug fixes in the following months, of course). Why are you still complaining about not having it? :-) Because it is only coming out officially about now with Chinook. That's not right, if you ask me. We are slowly warming up to the idea of public beta releases with the browser and sip things and we should be doing this for the whole OS. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
ext Michael Wiktowy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This conversation has been had many times in the past and Nokia has resisted it since it complicates updates in a huge way. It is a fact that it is more difficult to do this on a resource constrained system like the Internet Tablets than on a regular desktop. The difficulties are not with the resources on the device, but more in actually producing packages that are updateable without bricking the device. Even that is not very difficult, it just hasn't been tried in any serious way for a long time, which means that millions of small surprising details will likely pop up. Or maybe not. We needed to start doing it and to start learning the lessons. It's happening, maybe not as publically as one might wish, but it's happening. However, I think people's perceptions that Nokia not offering this functionality in the first place is an outrage against Nature are born from their mistaken belief that the Internet Tablets are just a small desktop machine and have the same constraints and should behave the same way. They are under the hood. That's the point. They are not geared towards the same tasks and will behave differently on the surface, but below the surface, they are (could be) your regular GNU/Linux distribution without much problems. We need to strip down Gnome and the browser, etc, but not really the base OS. Without knowing the details, I would say for example that there is no point to remove Perl. Perl is part of a Unixy system now, and removing it means breaking backwards compatibility. Likewise we can easily afford Debian style package management. The one serious constraint we might run into is that there is not enough storage space to carry out an update of the whole OS. But even that should not be that serious happen since even on the tablets, the OS itself is almost always small compared to the available storage (100 to 150 MiB compared to a couple of GiBs). Reality is that they are much closer to the resource constrains of a cell phone [...] I don't know enough about cell phones, but I would expect cell phones to vary in their resources constraints enough to make this comparison useless. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: 4.2007.38-2 available
Eero Tamminen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm pretty sure that the dist-upgrade is going to require tens of MBs of free space to do e.g. because some of the packages are pretty large (check for example the Browser packages in garage). Yep, but that doesn't sound unreasonable to me at all. Although the update would be automatic, doing all the package upgrades (downloading saving the packages, then upgrading them etc) will be taking a lot of time. Marius, are we talking about hours here? No, I expect something more like minutes to tens of minutes. (But I am a convicted optimist when it comes to things like this.) The one data point I don't really have is installing a 40 MiB update, which happened in a couple of minutes. (I regularily update my device to follow Sardine, but those are really small updates, in the order of one or two megabytes, and they usually happen in less than a minute.) (During which the device may not run out of free space or battery or you might need to reflash anyway.) It might be possible to automatically rescue a device after a interrupted update: we still have the needed packages in the apt archive cache and can retry the update very early on the next boot. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 update in red pill mode.
ext James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've noticed that this package seems to be nothing more than some kind of alert that updates exist. The magic:sys entry is not a package at all. It is just a hackish way to represent the Update my whole system operation in the UI. Apt-get for example doesn't know about a package called magic:sys. The apt-worker backend for the Application Manager recognizes this fake package by name and then does a full system update instead of trying to install a real package. Lots of things are unpolished about the magic:sys package. The sizes are all wrong, for example (except the download size), and if you have broken packages or unsatisfied dependencies on your system, things get a bit weird in the UI. On the other hand, I use it daily to keep my Sardine installation up-to-date, and it works great for that. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Questions from a Tech Saavy Newbie: Alt App Install / Homedir Location
ext Thomas Leavitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. Can I/how do I install apps to the MMC instead of the / filesystem? My file system is almost completely full already. Nope, unfortunately not. The best way out of this dilemma that I know is to put / (or parts of it) on a MMC. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Updates in red-pill mode
ext Thomas Leavitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I put my device in red-pill mode a while back... a short time later, I noticed a number of upgrades and went ahead and installed them, without making the connection (until afterwards)... this did produce a broken package warning, revealed not by the Application Manager, but by the Synaptic application, this was for one of the main system library updates. Interesting. The Application Manager only shows packages that failed to unpack or configure as broken, it more or less assumes that all dependencies of the installed packages are satisfied. In what way was that library broken? You say below that a dependency was missing. Or did a maintainer script fail? I fixed the dependency error by installing ssh, How did you get that dependency error in the first place? The Application Manager should not ever allow them to creep up. which the Application Manager insists has a lot of requirements and conflicts with busybox, but which Synaptic says is perfectly fine to install on it's own. This is also interesting. What would apt-get install do? The Application Manager and apt-get install do not use the same algorithm to compute the updates. In general, the Application Manager will not do anything about conflicts (except reporting them and refusing to proceed, of course), but apt-get install will remove packages to find a solution. Synaptic probably does the same, right? The conflict reports produced by the Application Manager are not very good right now, unfortunately. I don't think ssh conflicts with busybox, for example. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Canola never finds any media
ext Steve Yelvington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At this point I'm probably going to have to reflash the unit over the weekend and start over, as I have managed to foul up Application Manager, which opens a window but won't run. Check whether you messed up sudo. This is usually the reason for the Application Manager refusing to start. Any number of things will usually go wrong when sudo is borked, like MMC mounting. Try as user (not as root): ~ $ sudo /usr/libexec/apt-worker apt-worker: wrong invocation If you get the error message, sudo is working. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Latest Release of UKMP does not Install Correctly
ext Acadia Secure Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It now reads 1.621. So I went ahead and tried the click to install and this time it worked! Ok, so the author of ukmp (Urho?) has probably changed something. Interestingly, the message that came up while it was installing specified that it was installing version 1.61 not 1.621. That is likely because of bad bad packaging practices of the ukmp author. I know Urho likes to make packages without using the Debian tools and it is thus likely that his packages do not conform to Debian policy as well as they should. Using different versions in the filename and the meta data could be one example. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Latest Release of UKMP does not Install Correctly
ext Acadia Secure Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I downloaded the latest version (1.62) of the UKMP application today but it failed to install on two attempts. This might be because of a corrupted (or non-standard) .deb file or because of bugs in busybox tar. Could you point me to the exact UKMP-1.62.deb file you have tried? What IT OS version are you running? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: how to install GPE Calendar?
ext Graham Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Click to install doesn't work on the 770. It works 'somwewhat'. The Application Manager will silently ignore files that are not compatible with the 770 instead of complaining loudly. (I don't really remember if there was a good reason for this or if I just screwed up. I guess I just screwed up. But then again I didn't expect that version of the AM to stick around for so long...) But, downloads.maemo.org claims that GPE Calendar works with both IT OS 2007 and IT OS 2006, so the .install file should have entries for both. It only has one for IT OS 2007, tho, and that is the problem: [install] repo_name = GPE main repo_deb_3 = deb http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ bora user package = gpe-calendar You have to add the repository to the Application Manager by hand. In the Application Manager, use the Tools/Application catalogue... menu item and add a new catalogue. If you go to http://www.cobb.uk.net/770 you will see the details you need to enter (you want the gregale distribution). Then the .install file should look like this: [install] repo_name = GPE main repo_deb= deb http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ gregale user repo_deb_3 = deb http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ bora user package = gpe-calendar Graham, can you relay that information to the right people? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Newbie asks what is the key to repository access?
ext Paul Klapperich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Catalog Name: Anything you want (Maemo.org maybe) Web address: http://repository.maemo.org; Distribution: gregale Components: free nonfree Shouldn't that be non-free, with a dash? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bizp2 not installable via program manager
ext Rainer Dorsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wanted to install bzip2 on an N800. I did not find it in the program manager. But installing it with apt-get was no problem at all. This is exactly what is expected. The Application Manager simply hides 'advanced' packages like bzip2 from the user. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
ext Ed Bartosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 12:08 +0300, ext Tomas Junnonen wrote: If there's any additional hoops to jump through people just aren't going to bother. Yeah, I can see that. And you know what? It's not because Nokia not doing this and that, it's just because of people who don't bother. As a result we have this mess with tons of repositories and .install files instead of one extra. And we also have users, who have to deal with this mess. With some effort, we could find a line of argument that leaves Nokia not responsible for the current mess. Should Nokia be contend with that, turn around and say: Your fault, not our problem? Of course not. Nokia wants the maemo community to be healthy, and Nokia, as initiator and part of the community, is currently very much in charge of setting the rules and giving directions for future improvement. Nokia controls maemo.org. Non-Nokia member of the community can have their projects on Garage, edit the Wiki, send mails to the lists, blog on Planet maemo and upload packages to the Extras repository. But Nokia controls Garage, the Wiki, the mailing lists, the Planet and the Extras repository. From this power comes repsonsiblity. If Nokia doesn't want that responsibility, the whole maemo thing needs to be opened up more: maybe formally with a maemo foundation, board of directors, etc, or informally by just giving the root password to maemo.org to some non-Nokians. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
ext Tomas Junnonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Requesting access through the interface creates an entry in a ticket tracker, where it can be voted and commented on. Access is granted (or not) when a repo admin resolves the ticket. Would you do this for each new version of a package, or only for the initial upload of the first version? I think these cases are different enough to have different criteria and a different process for accepting them. In order for this to work for each new version, there would need to be a repository with the packages that have not yet been accepted. What you are voting on is the quality of the software in the package and the quality of its integration with the rest of the packages. You will have to see the package in action to be able to get a useful opinion about it. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: RTCom - SIP Service
ext Larry Battraw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are these versions available in Sardine or somewhere else? Only in Sardine. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
Ed Bartosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course not. Nokia wants the maemo community to be healthy, and Nokia, as initiator and part of the community, is currently very much in charge of setting the rules and giving directions for future improvement. I agree with this. My point was that community had and still has a chance to make a proper use of Extras repository even without Nokia. I didn't mean that Nokia isn't going to help them. I hope people understood that. Ahh, good, sorry for misunderstanding. I agree with your statement, too: I didn't expect the repository explosion and I am surprised that the community puts up with it so long. If Nokia doesn't want that responsibility, the whole maemo thing needs to be opened up more: maybe formally with a maemo foundation, board of directors, etc, or informally by just giving the root password to maemo.org to some non-Nokians. How is it related to current topic? I was generalizing beyond the current topic, based on misunderstanding your point. I was trying to point out the important and unique role that Nokia has in the maemo community. What prevents developers to set up rules for using extras and use it instead of creating uncountable amount of one-package-repositories? I agree that Nokia doesn't need to remove obstacles. Maybe just some annoyances: package signing inside Scratchbox could be better, maybe, and the things that Tomas talks about. We will find out when we try to convince the owners of the many repositories to use maemo Extras instead. This convincing and figuring out can be done by members of the community, but I'd say it is in the interest of Nokia to spend some resources on it. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: RTCom - SIP Service
ext Larry Battraw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As an aside, has anyone had their Application manager break after trying to to install RTCom? I managed to get RTCom installed manually via apt-get/dpkg but now whenever I run the Application manager the window will appear almost instantly, titled Application manager, and sit forever. That usually means that the backend process does not start up and the frontend is waiting for it to respond. That's quite bad since you basically can't debug the situation without help from the frontend. It's a known bug that has been fixed in more recent versions of the AM. The backend has quite low requirements for a successful startup. Usually, sudo has some problems. Try this as user: $ sudo /usr/libexec/apt-worker apt-worker: wrong invocation If you see the error message wrong invocation from apt-worker, it has been started successfully. One common problem with sudo is that /etc/sudoers has the wrong permissions: $ sudo /usr/libexec/apt-worker sudo: /etc/sudoers is mode 0640, should be 0440 Maybe some of the RTCom packages messes with /etc/sudoers? Doing a strace results in the attached log Thanks for the strace! It was only for maemo-invoker and not for the hildon-application-manager, but I appreciate the effort! :-) Debugging can be a bitch on the maemo platform... :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
ext Tomas Junnonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think at least partially it's because there's no carrot being offered to the developers. If the Extras repository was included in the Application Manager by default, although disabled (as Multiverse is in Ubuntu, you can show a disclaimer when enabling it), people would be more likely to upload to it: Yes. I will include it in the default configuration for the next IT OS release. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find a workaround!
ext andrei raevsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I want to tell you what bugs me so much and ask you whether you found a way around the two issues which make me grind my teeth and get gastric reflux. 1) OS updates and backups[...] 2) Repositories: [...] I, too, was surprised and shocked when I figured out how much IT OS 2005 missed the boat in the beginning, and how long it takes us (Nokia) to catch up with it. But I am confident that we are going to catch up. I think the importance of 3rd party applications for the Internet Tablets is now visible to everyone, and the pain coming from the chaotic repository and compatibility situation is felt more and more. 'Something' needs to happen and will happen. We will try to provide OS updates via the Application Manager in the future, but it will take some iterations (and time) until that will work nicely for new major versions of the IT OS, I am afraid. I hope we can do these iterations publically. The Extras repository on maemo.org should in theory make all the rogue individual repositories unnecessary. I will include it in the default configuration of the Application Manager (but disabled). We need to establish some community-driven quality control for the Extras repository, I'd say, maybe by offering a Debian/Ubuntu-style 'unstable' and 'stable' versions. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Mozilla browser has problem with jalimo installation?
ext Wahlau - [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Selecting previously deselected package classpath-common. (Reading database ... dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/classpath-common_2%3a0.95+cvs20070530-1_all.deb (--unpack): unable to open files list file for package `microb-l10n': Input/output error This unfortunately looks like a filesystem corruption. What happens when you do the following? # cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/microb-l10n.list ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Mozilla browser has problem with jalimo installation?
ext Wahlau - [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 18/07/07, Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This unfortunately looks like a filesystem corruption. What happens when you do the following? # cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/microb-l10n.list the file does not exist... Hmm, maybe my guess was wrong about which file got the I/O error. Can you nose around a bit in /var/lib/dpkg on your own? Do things like # cd /var/lib/dpkg/ # du -sh . # tar cf - . | wc -c and watch for any error messages. is there anyway i can repair this? Once we figure out which file is corrupted, probably. You might get away by removing the offending file (so that the I/O error goes away) and re-installing some packages. But please ask here first when you don't know what you are doing. ;) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Mozilla browser has problem with jalimo installation?
ext Wahlau - [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i manage to fsck the rootfs and now it seemed to be working :) Ok, cool! :) wonder why my file system got screwed up :) Where is your rootfs? Internal flash or on the MMC? What filesystem format? thanks for the quick help! You are welcome! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenSSH on OS 2006 repository problem?
ext Theodore Tso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem was that extras is a non-existent component in repository.maemo.org. Previous versions of the firmware would just ignore the non-existent component. The latest version seems to abort the apt-get update process and leave you with the old package information --- for all catalogs, not just the one with the bogus extra component. Hmm, that is unexpected. There shouldn't be any change in the behavior in this area. If you feel like it, could you experiment a bit with apt-get update in the shell and Refresh list of applications in the Application Manager UI? To get a clean slate, do # rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* After that, both apt-get update and Refresh list of applications _should_ get you back into a useable state and should ignore non-existing distributions or components. You can review detailed messages with Tools Log in the Application Manager. (Upcoming versions of the Application Manager will be more helpful with debugging catalogue configurations.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Issues with package installation and failed dependencies
ext Mike Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marius Vollmer wrote: Error messages are in Tools Log. I actually tried cd /Tools/Log...sheesh. :-) Why is there no /var/log content for numerous builtin apps and services...is this different filesys std with alternate? Syslog messages are not kept with the default configuration, but maybe there is a way to activate them... So the error message produced by install of gstreamer plugin (w/v4l) libs was nothing horrendous but cannot overwrite /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ libgstvideoscale.so which is also in package camera. Why would this be in itself a problem? It is an indication of missing coordination between the guy providing the camera package and the guy providing the gstreamer plugin. A single file can not be installed by two packages without special preparations that tell the package management system which one to give priority to. The camera guy and the gstreamer plugin guy need to sit down and sort it out. The camery guy should probably just depend on the gstreamer plugin. There is nothing you can do about it, except decide which package to install (camera or gstreamer plugin) and yell at the camera guy. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Issues with package installation and failed dependencies
ext Mike Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How is it that a package can be marked Installable and yet not install? A package has status Installable when there are no dependency issues upfront (i.e., no missing packages and no unresolvable conflicts). A package might still fail to install, tho: it might contain files that are also in some other package, or one of its maintainer scripts might fail (or you might run out of storage, etc). With new firmware I cannot cleanly install unzip, wget...as these have bizarre dependency issues. With wget I get dep failure of wget-ssl conflict...yet I have no wget on N800 and from googling this appears to be a deprecated package. The Application Manager is not smart at all when reporting conflicts. It might be that the AM picks out wget-ssl as the culprit although it is not installed. This is probably technically correct, but not very helpful. In general, if you have bizzare dependency issues, debugging them with the AM is going to be hard. You pretty much have to dig into the issue using apt-cache, et al. (I have plans to get more serious about reporting conflicts in the AM.) The idea is of course that the repositories don't contain bizarre dependency issues. But with our bizarre repository landscape, bizarre dependencies are unfortunately to be expected. I also tried installing a gstreamer plugins lib (said it was installable) and it fails silently! Wtf?!? This is linux man. Error msgs please. There are ZERO dep issues for this pkg and it just fails. Error messages are in Tools Log. Again, the idea is that the maintainer of a package (together with the maintainers of related packages) makes sure that it installs properly before it hits Joe Sixpack. For Joe, Unable to install foo should just mean Foo is broken, gaad dammit, let's try Bar. He is not supposed to be able to do anything about it. Likewise with missing dependencies: In the normal world, getting a package that has a missing depencies means that the distribution you are using is broken and there is not much more you should do than file a bug and wait. In the maemo world, people go on a package hunt to find the missing pieces somewhere in one of the million repositories. No wonder it gets messy. I am in redpill mode as I needed root access for a variety of apps. (Red-pill mode has nothing to do with root access. It only controls what packages you see in the Application Manager.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: incremental backups for your device with rdiff-backup
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And the big problem with aptitude is that if you use apt as well as aptitude, apt never puts the packages apt installed into its data base as being explicitly requested -- so on various occasions it discovers they are no longer needed and so proposes to remove them. Exactly, that's why I gave up on it when it proposed to remove half of Gnome when I used it the first time... :-) Does the Application manager do these things too? It does it the other way around: it keeps a database of the packages that have been installed automatically to satisfy dependencies. Whenever a package is removed, its dependencies are checked and removed as well if they are no longer needed are in the list of 'automatically installed packages'. Thus, the AM is more conservative with removals. It will not automatically remove a package that it hasn't installed in the first place. (libapt-pkg maintains a 'auto' bit for each package in its in-core data structures, but it doesn't save it to disk. That could be fixed and aptitude and the AM could then drop their own databases, and would even correctly interoperate with apt-get at that point, hopefully.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: incremental backups for your device with rdiff-backup
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: aptitude is OK if it's the *only* thing you use. Yes, but that is bad. It's OK to replace apt-get with aptitude, but aptitude should not assume that it is the only one using the libapt-pkg API. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: New install files for N800
ext Graham Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) I had chosen the wrong names for some packages. I have now created new packages with the new names but it is necessary to remove the broken packages in order to install the new ones. I used the normal Debian idiom of specifying that the new packages Conflicts:, Replaces: and Provides: the old package. apt-get then (correctly) removes the old package when asked to install the new package (either directly or as a result of a dependency). Recent versions of the Application Manager do the same (but only for Conflicts/Replaces, not for Conflicts alone). I am being very careful with automatically removing packages in the Application Manager (to resolve Conflicts) since it is easy to remove too many and we don't want to expect the user to be experienced enough to decide whether or not the removal is OK. 2) Because of the first problem I needed to tell people to remove the old packages first. But these are library packages and are not visible (except in red pill mode). If I tell them to remove the actual user applications involved, the application manager does not seem to remove the dependencies. They _should_ get removed automatically when they have been installed by the AM in the first place. The AM keeps a list of automatically installed packages in /var/lib/osso-application-installer/autoinst, and when a user package is removed that depends on one these packages, it should get removed as well. If this doesn't work for you, I would be happy to see the details. Is there a better solution? You can make new versions of the packages with the wrong names that are empty and make them depend on the packages with the correct names. The packages with the correct names can then conflict with the old versions of the packages with the wrong names. Given this setup, the AM should upgrade the wrongly named packages to the harmless empty ones. The wrongly named packages would still be in the system, which is a bit ugly, but if you need the Provides in your renamed packages, keeping them as real packages is actually cleaner, I'd say. (Provides doesn't really work with versioned dependencies.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: New install files for N800
ext Florian Boor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The applications seem to work, but I am aware of two issues: - You need to install the libmimedir-gnome1 package manually, it is not pulled in automatically. Why is this? Could the Application Manager do something different to make it work? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OpenSSH and redpill
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * if you remove openssh-installer, the ssh package will most likely stay installed It _should_ be removed automatically when nothing else depends on it. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: kind of off-topic, but not completely: some questions about the N800
ext andrei raevsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also - since don't suppose 'apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade' would work - why can't the 'check for updates' option of the application manager now allow a complete firmware update? *cough* That feature is hopefully coming. The main problem there is not to run apt-get on the device, but to produce a well tested repository that people can use confidently. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Problems refreshing application list
ext Hinrich Göhlmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the logs I get the Couldn't stat source package list http://...; and You may want to run apt-get update. This was like that from the start and also directly after I flashed the new OS version (I thought this might fix it). Please show the complete content of the log (Save As from the Log dialog). There should be some useful error message in there somewhere... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Offline installation of applications
ext Hinrich Göhlmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But whenever I try to install VIM from file... it gives me the dialogue connecting... and of course never finds something. When I cancel I just get the Unable to refresh list. dialog and that's it! This sounds as if you don't have the vim package itself, but just the vim.install file. A .install file doesn't contain the application itself, it just contains instructions for the Application Manager where to find the application. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
