Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-20 Thread Odhiambo Washington
Any chance of forging ahead with this, now that I have availed the server??



On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 19:33, Odhiambo Washington odhia...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 01:34, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 On Jun 08, 2011, at 04:20 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

 Is a valid MX record a MUST for this project?
 
 My test box is inside a 2Mbps symmetric connection from anywhere (USofA,
 etc)
 but it does not have a valid MX record. Will that do?  If it must have,
 then
 I will need to register a domain name and talk to the ISP to do the
 mappings.
 
 However, if this test is non-intrusive to Exim, then I can use one of the
 production servers I use.
 
 PS: My hope is that we'll be using Exim as the MTA:)

 As long as you can send email to foo-l...@example.com, I think that's all
 that
 matters for right now.

 My idea is that we'd bring up a test domain with a couple of test lists,
 and
 let people subscribe and unsubscribe via email (e.g. foo-join@example.comand
 foo-le...@example.com).  Then people could post test messages to the list
 and
 we'd all see how MM3 performed under real-world conditions.

 A few other things:

 * My main goal right now is to get the core to releasable state by
 11.11.11.
  This probably means it's got to go to beta fairly soon, probably no later
  than the end of the northern hemisphere summer (probably best right after
  GSoC ends).

 * We don't need to wait until the web ui is ready, so we'll start with
 just
  the email interface.

 * Probably best to run the system off of bzr trunk.  That way, you can
 much
  more quickly deploy bug fixes during this test phase.

 * I actually don't need shell access if you're willing and able to
 maintain
  the system, provide logs if necessary, update the bzr branch, etc.

 * I think the risk is small, but you should be prepared to deal with any
  runaway mail storms.  Since most of the queuing architecture is a fairly
  straight port from MM2, and we have at least a *decade* of experience
 with
  that subsystem, we should be in good shape.  But the MM3 code has been
  refactored and updated to more modern Pythonic idioms, so it's entirely
  possible that some catastrophic bug was introduced.  Don't be afraid, but
 be
  prepared. :)

 -Barry


 Hello Barry,

 I have crafted a subdomain for this purpose.

 The 'domain' will be jaribu.kictanet.or.ke. The DNS portions have just
 been done a few hours ago so they need some hours to propagate, otherwise
 the IP is 196.200.26.114
 Please dig your e-mails (btn me and you) for your logon credentials.
 The host already has Apache22, Exim-4.76, etc.

 Nigel's been quiet!


 --
 Best regards,
 Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
 Nairobi,KE
 +254733744121/+254722743223
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.




-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-10 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 01:34, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 On Jun 08, 2011, at 04:20 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

 Is a valid MX record a MUST for this project?
 
 My test box is inside a 2Mbps symmetric connection from anywhere (USofA,
 etc)
 but it does not have a valid MX record. Will that do?  If it must have,
 then
 I will need to register a domain name and talk to the ISP to do the
 mappings.
 
 However, if this test is non-intrusive to Exim, then I can use one of the
 production servers I use.
 
 PS: My hope is that we'll be using Exim as the MTA:)

 As long as you can send email to foo-l...@example.com, I think that's all
 that
 matters for right now.

 My idea is that we'd bring up a test domain with a couple of test lists,
 and
 let people subscribe and unsubscribe via email (e.g. foo-join@example.comand
 foo-le...@example.com).  Then people could post test messages to the list
 and
 we'd all see how MM3 performed under real-world conditions.

 A few other things:

 * My main goal right now is to get the core to releasable state by
 11.11.11.
  This probably means it's got to go to beta fairly soon, probably no later
  than the end of the northern hemisphere summer (probably best right after
  GSoC ends).

 * We don't need to wait until the web ui is ready, so we'll start with just
  the email interface.

 * Probably best to run the system off of bzr trunk.  That way, you can much
  more quickly deploy bug fixes during this test phase.

 * I actually don't need shell access if you're willing and able to maintain
  the system, provide logs if necessary, update the bzr branch, etc.

 * I think the risk is small, but you should be prepared to deal with any
  runaway mail storms.  Since most of the queuing architecture is a fairly
  straight port from MM2, and we have at least a *decade* of experience with
  that subsystem, we should be in good shape.  But the MM3 code has been
  refactored and updated to more modern Pythonic idioms, so it's entirely
  possible that some catastrophic bug was introduced.  Don't be afraid, but
 be
  prepared. :)

 -Barry


Hello Barry,

I have crafted a subdomain for this purpose.

The 'domain' will be jaribu.kictanet.or.ke. The DNS portions have just been
done a few hours ago so they need some hours to propagate, otherwise the IP
is 196.200.26.114
Please dig your e-mails (btn me and you) for your logon credentials.
The host already has Apache22, Exim-4.76, etc.

Nigel's been quiet!

-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-08 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 23:35, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 On Jun 02, 2011, at 09:10 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

 I manage several machines (FreeBSD of course) all of which use Exim as the
 MTA.  I'd like to know what sort of conditions you attach to this
 requirement
 (for a spare machine).  The only downside is that bandwidth is still not
 cheap in KE, so people connecting from outside will definately feel the
 slow
 speeds.  If the tests are NOT likely to interfere with the smooth running
 of
 Exim on any of these servers, then I am willing to let you use one of
 them. However, Nigel's input matters most so I must wait till he can work
 out
 something for Exim.

 Hi Odhiambo,

 There really aren't too many conditions on this, though I think I would
 need
 shell access to quickly update the code and restart Mailman.  Really, we
 just
 want a test server that brave folks like yourself can subscribe to and we
 can
 start throwing real traffic at.  I think it would be wise at this point to
 not
 use a production server for now.  Bandwidth isn't that big a deal for the
 email traffic I'd expect, though latency to the USA might be a problem.

 -Barry


Hello Barry,

Is a valid MX record a MUST for this project?

My test box is inside a 2Mbps symmetric connection from anywhere (USofA,
etc) but it does not have a valid MX record. Will that do?
If it must have, then I will need to register a domain name and talk to the
ISP to do the mappings.

However, if this test is non-intrusive to Exim, then I can use one of the
production servers I use.

PS: My hope is that we'll be using Exim as the MTA:)



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
image001.png___
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-08 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Jun 08, 2011, at 04:20 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

Is a valid MX record a MUST for this project?

My test box is inside a 2Mbps symmetric connection from anywhere (USofA, etc)
but it does not have a valid MX record. Will that do?  If it must have, then
I will need to register a domain name and talk to the ISP to do the mappings.

However, if this test is non-intrusive to Exim, then I can use one of the
production servers I use.

PS: My hope is that we'll be using Exim as the MTA:)

As long as you can send email to foo-l...@example.com, I think that's all that
matters for right now.

My idea is that we'd bring up a test domain with a couple of test lists, and
let people subscribe and unsubscribe via email (e.g. foo-j...@example.com and
foo-le...@example.com).  Then people could post test messages to the list and
we'd all see how MM3 performed under real-world conditions.

A few other things:

* My main goal right now is to get the core to releasable state by 11.11.11.
  This probably means it's got to go to beta fairly soon, probably no later
  than the end of the northern hemisphere summer (probably best right after
  GSoC ends).

* We don't need to wait until the web ui is ready, so we'll start with just
  the email interface.

* Probably best to run the system off of bzr trunk.  That way, you can much
  more quickly deploy bug fixes during this test phase.

* I actually don't need shell access if you're willing and able to maintain
  the system, provide logs if necessary, update the bzr branch, etc.

* I think the risk is small, but you should be prepared to deal with any
  runaway mail storms.  Since most of the queuing architecture is a fairly
  straight port from MM2, and we have at least a *decade* of experience with
  that subsystem, we should be in good shape.  But the MM3 code has been
  refactored and updated to more modern Pythonic idioms, so it's entirely
  possible that some catastrophic bug was introduced.  Don't be afraid, but be
  prepared. :)

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-07 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Jun 02, 2011, at 09:10 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

I manage several machines (FreeBSD of course) all of which use Exim as the
MTA.  I'd like to know what sort of conditions you attach to this requirement
(for a spare machine).  The only downside is that bandwidth is still not
cheap in KE, so people connecting from outside will definately feel the slow
speeds.  If the tests are NOT likely to interfere with the smooth running of
Exim on any of these servers, then I am willing to let you use one of
them. However, Nigel's input matters most so I must wait till he can work out
something for Exim.

Hi Odhiambo,

There really aren't too many conditions on this, though I think I would need
shell access to quickly update the code and restart Mailman.  Really, we just
want a test server that brave folks like yourself can subscribe to and we can
start throwing real traffic at.  I think it would be wise at this point to not
use a production server for now.  Bandwidth isn't that big a deal for the
email traffic I'd expect, though latency to the USA might be a problem.

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-02 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 20:32, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:

 Hi Nigel,

 On May 30, 2011, at 09:10 AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

 So to make this more generic:-
   - how can an external process detect configured lists?
 - preferably in a relatively non-active fashion - ie looking at
   the filesystem
 - if needed by running something to say if list x exists

 I think you could do it either way.  In MM3, while there's no config.pck
 file,
 there still is a directory under lists/ for each mailing list.  This is
 where
 things like template customizations can go, and probably more things
 eventually.  One difference is that the directory contains the fqdn
 listname
 which is the same as the posting address.  E.g.:

 $ bin/mailman info
 GNU Mailman 3.0.0a7+ (Where's My Thing?)
 Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53)
 [GCC 4.5.2]
 config file: None
 db url: sqlite:home/barry/projects/mailman/3.0/var/data/mailman.db
 REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.0/
 REST credentials: restadmin:restpass
 $ bin/mailman lists
 1 matching mailing lists found:
 te...@example.com
 $ ls var/lists
 te...@example.com/

 You could also get this information from the REST API.  Here's an example
 using the Python client library, but of course anything that talks HTTP and
 can parse JSON will work too.

 $ python
 Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53)
 [GCC 4.5.2] on linux2
 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
  from mailman.client import Client
  mm = Client('http://localhost:8001/3.0', 'restadmin', 'restpass')
  for mlist in mm.lists:
 ...   print mlist.fqdn_listname
 ...
 te...@example.com

   - what addresses does a list provide (ie list-request etc)
   - or is there a way of getting mailman to list all the addresses
 that mailman handles (ideally including domain)

 It's not wonderful, since it's primarily geared toward generating
 /etc/aliases
 files (or their mta-specific moral equivalents), but it's there.  Of
 course,
 it would be easy to add any specific output format that would help Exim.
  This
 is the Postfix output:

 $ bin/mailman aliases -o -
 # AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED BY MAILMAN ON 2011-06-01 13:27:42
 #
 # This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary
 hash
 # file.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you know what you're
 # doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you screw it up,
 # you're on your own.

 # Aliases which are visible only in the @example.com domain.

 te...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-boun...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-conf...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-j...@example.com   lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-le...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-ow...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-requ...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-subscr...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
 test1-unsubscr...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024

 There's currently no equivalent in the REST API, although it would be
 trivial
 to add.

  Second, the preferred way to get messages into MM3 is via LMTP, so
 ideally,
  there'd be some configuration to get Exim to connect to MM3's LMTP
 server.
 
 That should be pretty easy.

 Awesome.

  It would be great to have better Exim (and Sendmail, qmail, or any other
  MTA) support in MM3.  Let us know if you're willing and able to help!
 
 Can't do a great deal on this, but willing to heckle, umm, give
 some advice from the sidelines.
 The exim.org machine is moving to a more modern platform later in
 the year so we may be in a position to realistically look at hosting
 a MM3 install then.

 That would be great.  I think we're very soon going to be ready to bring up
 a
 (GUI-less) test instance and to let brave souls start using it for real.
  I've
 been thinking about python.org or one of my own domains, none of which are
 entirely ideal.  But if you or anyone else has a spare machine that we
 could
 use, let's talk!


Hello Barry,

I manage several machines (FreeBSD of course) all of which use Exim as the
MTA.
I'd like to know what sort of conditions you attach to this requirement (for
a spare machine).
The only downside is that bandwidth is still not cheap in KE, so people
connecting from outside will definately feel the slow
speeds.
If the tests are NOT likely to interfere with the smooth running of Exim on
any of these servers, then I am willing to let you use one of them. However,
Nigel's input matters most so I must wait till he can work out something for
Exim.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
image001.png___
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-06-01 Thread Barry Warsaw
Hi Nigel,

On May 30, 2011, at 09:10 AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

So to make this more generic:-
  - how can an external process detect configured lists?
- preferably in a relatively non-active fashion - ie looking at
  the filesystem
- if needed by running something to say if list x exists

I think you could do it either way.  In MM3, while there's no config.pck file,
there still is a directory under lists/ for each mailing list.  This is where
things like template customizations can go, and probably more things
eventually.  One difference is that the directory contains the fqdn listname
which is the same as the posting address.  E.g.:

$ bin/mailman info
GNU Mailman 3.0.0a7+ (Where's My Thing?)
Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53) 
[GCC 4.5.2]
config file: None
db url: sqlite:home/barry/projects/mailman/3.0/var/data/mailman.db
REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.0/
REST credentials: restadmin:restpass
$ bin/mailman lists
1 matching mailing lists found:
te...@example.com
$ ls var/lists
te...@example.com/

You could also get this information from the REST API.  Here's an example
using the Python client library, but of course anything that talks HTTP and
can parse JSON will work too.

$ python
Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53) 
[GCC 4.5.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 from mailman.client import Client
 mm = Client('http://localhost:8001/3.0', 'restadmin', 'restpass')
 for mlist in mm.lists:
...   print mlist.fqdn_listname
... 
te...@example.com

  - what addresses does a list provide (ie list-request etc)
  - or is there a way of getting mailman to list all the addresses
that mailman handles (ideally including domain)

It's not wonderful, since it's primarily geared toward generating /etc/aliases
files (or their mta-specific moral equivalents), but it's there.  Of course,
it would be easy to add any specific output format that would help Exim.  This
is the Postfix output:

$ bin/mailman aliases -o -
# AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED BY MAILMAN ON 2011-06-01 13:27:42
#
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary hash
# file.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you know what you're
# doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you screw it up,
# you're on your own.

# Aliases which are visible only in the @example.com domain.

te...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-boun...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-conf...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-j...@example.com   lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-le...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-ow...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-requ...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-subscr...@example.com  lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024
test1-unsubscr...@example.comlmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024

There's currently no equivalent in the REST API, although it would be trivial
to add.

 Second, the preferred way to get messages into MM3 is via LMTP, so ideally,
 there'd be some configuration to get Exim to connect to MM3's LMTP server.

That should be pretty easy.

Awesome.

 It would be great to have better Exim (and Sendmail, qmail, or any other
 MTA) support in MM3.  Let us know if you're willing and able to help!

Can't do a great deal on this, but willing to heckle, umm, give
some advice from the sidelines.
The exim.org machine is moving to a more modern platform later in
the year so we may be in a position to realistically look at hosting
a MM3 install then.

That would be great.  I think we're very soon going to be ready to bring up a
(GUI-less) test instance and to let brave souls start using it for real.  I've
been thinking about python.org or one of my own domains, none of which are
entirely ideal.  But if you or anyone else has a spare machine that we could
use, let's talk!

Cheers,
-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-05-30 Thread Nigel Metheringham

On 30 May 2011, at 02:37, Barry Warsaw wrote:
 There are two parts to this.  First, the way Exim is integrated with MM2,
 there's no need for alias file hacking because Exim can autodetect which
 mailing lists are available by looking at the config.pck files.  Of course,
 there are no config.pck files in MM3 any more, so a new strategy is needed.

So to make this more generic:-
  - how can an external process detect configured lists?
- preferably in a relatively non-active fashion - ie looking at
  the filesystem
- if needed by running something to say if list x exists
  - what addresses does a list provide (ie list-request etc)
  - or is there a way of getting mailman to list all the addresses
that mailman handles (ideally including domain)

 Second, the preferred way to get messages into MM3 is via LMTP, so ideally,
 there'd be some configuration to get Exim to connect to MM3's LMTP server.

That should be pretty easy.

 It would be great to have better Exim (and Sendmail, qmail, or any other MTA)
 support in MM3.  Let us know if you're willing and able to help!

Can't do a great deal on this, but willing to heckle, umm, give
some advice from the sidelines.
The exim.org machine is moving to a more modern platform later in
the year so we may be in a position to realistically look at hosting
a MM3 install then.

Nigel.
--
[ Nigel Metheringham -- ni...@dotdot.it ]
[ Ellipsis Intangible Technologies  ]


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-05-29 Thread Odhiambo Washington
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 19:37, Adam McGreggor adam-mail...@amyl.org.ukwrote:

 On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 02:35:39PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
  The second part of my problem is how to integrate MM3 with Exim4. I am
  informed that things have greatly changed from the way Exim4 was
 configured
  with MM2 (2.1.x). I am hoping that there are Exim gurus here, who have
  already worked on a configuration for MM3+Exim and have documented the
 bits
  required for both exim.conf and mailman.cf.

 ISTR there was a post within the last month or so to exim-users WRT
 MM3.


That must have been myself trying to find out if any fellows there are using
it. I did not get any
workable responses.
Could you please point the thread?



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-05-29 Thread Barry Warsaw
I traded a few emails with Odhiambo before I suggested sending a query here.
I have a FreeBSD VM, but don't really know much about the OS.

On May 28, 2011, at 02:35 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

Now, when I invoke `bin/mailman info`, this is what I get:
...
raise DatabaseModuleError('pysqlite2' module not found)
storm.exceptions.DatabaseModuleError: 'pysqlite2' module not found

There is no py-sqlite2 port on FreeBSD 8.2 at the moment. Is there something
I can do to get past this deadlock?

Here's the weird thing I noticed.  After installing Python 2.7 and py-sqlite,
this would succeed:

$ python2.7 -c 'import sqlite3'

but, after doing a buildout, this would fail:

$ bin/py -c 'import sqlite3'

So, the sqlite3 module was available from the standard Python, but not the
built-out Python.  No clue as to why though.


The second part of my problem is how to integrate MM3 with Exim4. I am
informed that things have greatly changed from the way Exim4 was configured
with MM2 (2.1.x). I am hoping that there are Exim gurus here, who have
already worked on a configuration for MM3+Exim and have documented the bits
required for both exim.conf and mailman.cf.

There are two parts to this.  First, the way Exim is integrated with MM2,
there's no need for alias file hacking because Exim can autodetect which
mailing lists are available by looking at the config.pck files.  Of course,
there are no config.pck files in MM3 any more, so a new strategy is needed.

Second, the preferred way to get messages into MM3 is via LMTP, so ideally,
there'd be some configuration to get Exim to connect to MM3's LMTP server.

It would be great to have better Exim (and Sendmail, qmail, or any other MTA)
support in MM3.  Let us know if you're willing and able to help!

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3

2011-05-28 Thread Adam McGreggor
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 02:35:39PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
 The second part of my problem is how to integrate MM3 with Exim4. I am
 informed that things have greatly changed from the way Exim4 was configured
 with MM2 (2.1.x). I am hoping that there are Exim gurus here, who have
 already worked on a configuration for MM3+Exim and have documented the bits
 required for both exim.conf and mailman.cf.

ISTR there was a post within the last month or so to exim-users WRT
MM3.

-- 
Saying that road tax should be spent on transport is like
 saying that alcohol duty should be spent on pubs.
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