[Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
Brad Knowles writes: We can repeat the mantra -- Mailman was *NEVER* designed to be used in a Service Provider environment, especially not with multiple customers who may have very different needs, That's technically true, but Mailman has grown a long list of features that make it attractive to service providers, and it comes pretty close. It is not surprising that ISPs (ab)use it. One big problem that I see is that the VARs who repackage Mailman in ISP-oriented ways (principally Cpanel and Plesk) have been unwilling to contribute back (and even the FAQ deprecating their offerings doesn't seem to faze them).[1] AFAIK one of the goals of MM3 is to improve some of the obvious sticking points, like support for virtual hosting. That won't help people who have bad ISPs, but for people where the ISPs are trying but inexperienced, we should try to remove as many of the traps and snares as possible. We also need to improve the administrative interface. Mark (and you, inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu navigation into answers to how do I ... questions. Footnotes: [1] I'm very aware that's easier said than done, and likely to be quite expensive for them to get their features into upstream Mailman, compared to a quick hack that works in their intended environment. Still, they should *try*. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Gadi Evron writes: crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature? I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to implement usefully than you'd think. It sounds easy, but remember, in a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is already broken*. A trivial example: most of the cases where I've wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not available. In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received via HTTP than mail received by SMTP? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common for those of us behind corporate firewalls) 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) At 5:48 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Gadi Evron writes: crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature? I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to implement usefully than you'd think. It sounds easy, but remember, in a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is already broken*. A trivial example: most of the cases where I've wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not available. In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received via HTTP than mail received by SMTP? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Bill Catambay writes: 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common for those of us behind corporate firewalls) 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) Note that I didn't deny use cases, I said it would be hard to implement usefully. For example, in the case that the mailman aliases aren't working, people *will* reply: when do you expect it back up? Because the mail system is currently not working, these will come through in a batch when things are fixed. What do to about them, especially since they're completely useless in this scenario? There is also the issue of what to put in From, and things like that. Will there be one-size-fits-all solution, or will the emergency poster have to set them appropriately? In the latter case, are there traps that the poster should avoid? Do the appropriate settings depend on other list settings (eg, reply-to munging)? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Gadi Evron writes: crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature? I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to implement usefully than you'd think. It sounds easy, but remember, in a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is already broken*. A trivial example: most of the cases where I've wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not available. In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received via HTTP than mail received by SMTP? Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency feature. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Bill Catambay wrote: 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common for those of us behind corporate firewalls) 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) Yes, but are list admins always mailman admins or have access to the machine? The only questions which seem relevant are: 1. Is this useful enough? 2. Does it fit with Mailman's vision? 3. How difficult is it to implement? At 5:48 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Gadi Evron writes: crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature? I think that, as Mark alludes to, this feature would be harder to implement usefully than you'd think. It sounds easy, but remember, in a very large share cases where it would be useful *your mail system is already broken*. A trivial example: most of the cases where I've wanted something like it, the host was crashed, and simply not available. In other cases, it seems that Mailman is for some reason unable to send mail; why would it be more able to send mail received via HTTP than mail received by SMTP? -- Gadi Evron, g...@linuxbox.org. Blog: http://gevron.livejournal.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:42, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: We also need to improve the administrative interface. Mark (and you, inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu navigation into answers to how do I ... questions. Oh yeah, the UI has much room for improvement. Even having used mailman for years I dont use the admin pages every day, so I find myself clicking through multiple pages trying to find some setting. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Service provider environments
On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:31 AM, LuKreme wrote: On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:42, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: We also need to improve the administrative interface. Mark (and you, inter alia) have spent *way* too much time typing five levels of menu navigation into answers to how do I ... questions. Oh yeah, the UI has much room for improvement. Even having used mailman for years I dont use the admin pages every day, so I find myself clicking through multiple pages trying to find some setting. I'd like to invite those of you who really care about the admin pages to join the mailman-developers list and engage there. It's totally okay if you're not a coder, as long as you're willing to provide constructive input (use cases, etc.) to the cause. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gadi Evron wrote: Brad Knowles wrote: At the very least, you should find a different provider where they actually give you the support you require. Brad, crappy providers aside, do you think this might be a useful feature? I can see that it might be a useful feature, yes. However, the laundry list of useful features that could be added to Mailman is several miles long and almost as wide, and I'm not qualified to judge where on that laundry list this particular feature would/should fall -- I'll leave that to the Mailman developers, like Barry and Mark. -- Brad Knowles bradknow...@shub-internet.org LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Gadi Evron wrote: Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency feature. I see two requests in this thread. The original appeared to be a request for a way to send a regular post to a list via the admin web interface, which would be useful in cases where for whatever reason, the list was working but email delivery to the list was not. The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. For reasons already mentioned by Stephen and others, I don't think the first is useful enough to justify, but the second is something we can consider for MM3. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 7:32 PM +0900 on 11/23/09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Bill Catambay writes: 1. Mailman aliases not working (like in my case) 2. Unable to access my email, but have access to web (which is common for those of us behind corporate firewalls) 3. My email is broken, but my internet it still working However, even with these reasons, I wouldn't consider it a big deal, especially if it's difficult to implement. After my list is working again, I'll probably forget all about it. :) Note that I didn't deny use cases, I said it would be hard to implement usefully. For example, in the case that the mailman aliases aren't working, people *will* reply: when do you expect it back up? Because the mail system is currently not working, these will come through in a batch when things are fixed. What do to about them, especially since they're completely useless in this scenario? There is also the issue of what to put in From, and things like that. Will there be one-size-fits-all solution, or will the emergency poster have to set them appropriately? In the latter case, are there traps that the poster should avoid? Do the appropriate settings depend on other list settings (eg, reply-to munging)? Well, for what it's worth, in *my* situation, all posts come to me, which I am currently just holding, including when do you expect it back up but really more of thanks for all the work you do messages. This is one of the reasons I like to moderate the list this way, as I do often get direct emails that were intended for the list, and this way I can read them and appropriately file them (i.e., they won't be going out to the list once the list is working). As far as what to put in the FROM, I would say the name could be Foo-list Emergency Notification, and in the FROM email would be the foo-list email (which, in my case, come to me), or perhaps just to the foo-list-owner email (which should work okay for other lists as well). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Nov 23, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty. Send a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 7:56 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: I see two requests in this thread. The original appeared to be a request for a way to send a regular post to a list via the admin web interface, which would be useful in cases where for whatever reason, the list was working but email delivery to the list was not. The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. For reasons already mentioned by Stephen and others, I don't think the first is useful enough to justify, but the second is something we can consider for MM3. The second works for me. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 11:05 AM -0500 on 11/23/09, Barry Warsaw wrote: The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty. Send a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers. If by send a message, you mean email a message to the normal foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Barry Warsaw wrote: On Nov 23, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: The second request, which might also satisfy the first if it were implemented as a web service, seems to be for a way to send a message right now to all members of a list (or all lists?) regardless of digest and nomail settings. Actually, MM2 already implements this, though the UI is crufty. Send a message with an Urgent: header that contains the admin password and it's supposed to be sent as a direct message to all subscribers. I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Problem was I looked for it as an RFE and not as an existing feature :) -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: I knew I'd seen that somewhere. Problem was I looked for it as an RFE and not as an existing feature :) :) -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 09:42 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: However, the laundry list of useful features that could be added to Mailman is several miles long and almost as wide, and I'm not qualified to judge where on that laundry list this particular feature would/should fall -- I'll leave that to the Mailman developers, like Barry and Mark. This is just a thought, since I'm not familiar with the technical details of implementing it, but it seems to be a trend. An ever-increasing number of software packages support the installation of 3rd party extensions, said extensions supporting the activities of installation, deactivation and removal, leaving the core system unaltered. This provides end users (mail admins in the case of Mailman) with the option of installing as few or as many extra features as they need or want, and offloads the task of providing everything that everyone wants from the core developers onto a wider community of peripheral developers who know how to work with the core package's extension API. Mailman has a hint of this capability already, in the withlist utility which I've used with great success to develop a program to expunge lists of clueless AOL users who complain to AOL that opt-in list posts they receive from a Mailman-served list are spam. I have no idea how this might be implemented, but I've worked with Python a bunch and I'm seriously impressed with its power and flexibility. There's nothing that can't be done with Python except mend a broken heart and fix breakfast. goes off to fix breakfast -- Lindsay Haisley | Never expect the people who caused a problem FMP Computer Services | to solve it. - Albert Einstein 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 1:32 PM +0200 on 11/23/09, Gadi Evron wrote: Actually, I spoke of a possible _announcement_ feature, not an emergency feature. Announcement feature would be better, since it's not always going to be an emergency (and would still work in my situation). -- ,,, (o o) ===oOO==(_)==OOo= Bill Catambay Santa Clara, CA bill.catam...@excaliburworld.com Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen, and thinking what nobody has thought. .oooO Oooo. ( )==( )= \ () / \_) (_/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Bill Catambay wrote: If by send a message, you mean email a message to the normal foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). But, I hope you understand that your specific need/situation - email delivery to the list broken by the hosting provider, by incompletely implementing your requested change in the delivery of the normal list posting address and a new 'moderator posting' address on a Friday with insufficient testing and then leaving for the weekend - is so rare as to possibly never occur again. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
At 8:52 AM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: If by send a message, you mean email a message to the normal foo-list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). But, I hope you understand that your specific need/situation - email delivery to the list broken by the hosting provider, by incompletely implementing your requested change in the delivery of the normal list posting address and a new 'moderator posting' address on a Friday with insufficient testing and then leaving for the weekend - is so rare as to possibly never occur again. Very true. (especially after the support survey I just completed) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
Terri Oda wrote: Maybe a nice in-between solution would be making sure the FAQ/Documentation had an entry saying if you need to get an emergency message out and Mailman is not working, here's how to get the whole subscriber list and send a Bcc'ed mail Anyone want to volunteer to stick that in the wiki so people can find it in the future? There is already a FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9 that gives the various ways to get a membership list. The problem is than in many if not most Mailman is not working cases, none of these methods will work. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: An ever-increasing number of software packages support the installation of 3rd party extensions, said extensions supporting the activities of installation, deactivation and removal, leaving the core system unaltered. This provides end users (mail admins in the case of Mailman) with the option of installing as few or as many extra features as they need or want, and offloads the task of providing everything that everyone wants from the core developers onto a wider community of peripheral developers who know how to work with the core package's extension API. Mailman has a hint of this capability already, in the withlist utility which I've used with great success to develop a program to expunge lists of clueless AOL users who complain to AOL that opt-in list posts they receive from a Mailman-served list are spam. This is a goal of Mailman 3. bin/withlist will still be there (largely unchanged), but the intent is to also support a plugin architecture to make it easy to extend Mailman in other ways, e.g. by adding handlers and other elements. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Bill Catambay wrote: If by send a message, you mean email a message to the normal foo- list email address, then I'm back to square one (i.e., it will never reach anyone on the list because of the aliases being whacked). Honestly, I don't see Mailman doing anything about this. If the MTA configuration is broken, you'll have to find other ways to communicate with your users until this is fixed. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Digest cron time
Using Mailman version: 2.1.9 on RedHat The time to deliver digest messages is set to noon. Is this a Mailman choice or a RedHat choice. # Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery. It seems to me that sometime before 8am would be more logical. It would be interesting to know why noon was chosen. Thanks. Don Hone http://edirectory.ohio.edu/?$search?uid=hone Ohio University -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest cron time
hone+mail...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu wrote: The time to deliver digest messages is set to noon. Is this a Mailman choice or a RedHat choice. # Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery. It seems to me that sometime before 8am would be more logical. It would be interesting to know why noon was chosen. Thanks. I can't tell you why, but it's been noon at least since Mailman 2.0 in November, 2000. Personally, my installation runs senddigests at 03:30, but I imagine no one time would satisfy everyone. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Okay, today was quite the rollercoaster. I finally got an email from my ISP's Operations group stating that the foo-list-mod email was working, but when I tried, it didn't work. Bounced just like before. I called them up, and when I told them it was still bouncing, they insisted that it was working, and said there was nothing further they could do for me. At that point, I lost it, and despite a great track record they had for customer support, I laid into them. It was like Jekyll turning into Hyde. After stating that the mailing list was down for 4 days, and that it was still not working, along with a few other choice things I said about their level of support on this occasion, he said he would find a supervisor and find a resolution to the problem. An hour later, I got an email indicating that they had fixed the problem. Apparently, they created the foo-list-mod under an old listman sub-domain, rather than the lists sub-domain that everyone is using. Once they fixed that, and foo-list-mod started working. Given that they were ready to shut the door on this before even getting the alias fixed (not to mention that he added a blurb about how they probably should not have supported the request in the first place), I'm not hopeful that they are going to do anything with the customization request. What I think I'll do is just remove the MOD flags on everyone (since no one knows about the special mod email)(yet). I might start looking at installing Mailman on my OS X server (which is already running EIMS 3.3). In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? As the member stated, they see this info constantly, but doesn't need to be read often, and it gets in the way with the front of the digest that they are interested in. Thanks, Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Bill Catambay wrote: In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? No. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
How about changing the text? At 4:21 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? No. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
On 23-Nov-2009, at 17:21, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: In any case, I did have one follow-up question (suggestion, actually, from a member of my list). In the digests, is there any setting that is available to *me* that will let me put the digest prolog text (e.g., To subscribe..., When replying..., etc., etc.) at the bottom of the digest instead of the top? No. Heh. SHort and concise. I THINK that the No really means that it is not possible. The Digest messages are sent out as multi-part mime messages. Each message in the digest is a separate mime part. The text of the actual message is the thing that appears to be a 'header' to your and your user, but it is not the header, it is the body of the message. What I would recommend is making sure your client understands the mime digest format and can properly 'explode' it into individual messages. This way you never have to worry about the 'header' -- If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be unemployed. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Bill Catambay wrote: How about changing the text? The text is built from the masthead.txt template. A list specific version of this template can be installed (see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9), but not by *you* (unless you start running your own Mailman). This is not one of the 4 templates that can be edited through the list admin GUI, so the host would have to install it. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
Okay, thanks for the info. I'll go stealth for awhile. :) At 4:38 PM -0800 on 11/23/09, Mark Sapiro wrote: Bill Catambay wrote: How about changing the text? The text is built from the masthead.txt template. A list specific version of this template can be installed (see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9), but not by *you* (unless you start running your own Mailman). This is not one of the 4 templates that can be edited through the list admin GUI, so the host would have to install it. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
LuKreme wrote: I THINK that the No really means that it is not possible. Not without modifying the source code. The Digest messages are sent out as multi-part mime messages. Each message in the digest is a separate mime part. The text of the actual message is the thing that appears to be a 'header' to your and your user, but it is not the header, it is the body of the message. This is true of the MIME format digests, but list members can chose a plain text digest which is a single text/plain part containing the masthead, the table of contents and the (scrubbed) messages, and which in a default installation with default list settings is the default digest format. What I would recommend is making sure your client understands the mime digest format and can properly 'explode' it into individual messages. This way you never have to worry about the 'header' And list owners and other list members would never have to deal with posts with Subject: Re: listname Digest, Vol nn, Issue nn and bodies consisting of Yeah, me too followed by a quote of the entire digest. /rant -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Revisit to moderator aliases
On 23-Nov-2009, at 17:53, Mark Sapiro wrote: And list owners and other list members would never have to deal with posts with Subject: Re: listname Digest, Vol nn, Issue nn and bodies consisting of Yeah, me too followed by a quote of the entire digest. /rant I'm hoping that in MM3 when someone does this a couple of things happen: 1) the message is not posted 2) they get a note from the list saying don't do that 3) their mod bit is enabled. -- You know, Rick, I have many a friend in Casablanca, but somehow, just because you despise me, you are the only one I trust. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
